Re: [Bug 109064] Re: Boot-up option 'Start or install Ubuntu' scares new users
Hi Matthew, I like the words test drive. Something that wouldn't scare me so much to try would be a menu like: Ubuntu - Test Drive Ubuntu (without any change to your computer) - Install Ubuntu - [other options] - [...] That's something I would try at my desk without fear of harming my fragile windows setup. Seriously, people who are most likely to switch to linux are those who are the most fearful of harming their windows configuration. I can't wait to get our production PC off of winXP, but we're working on it one step at a time. Messing with that computer is almost a fire-able offense around here. :) Chris -- Chris Kelley President California Cycleworks, Inc www.ca-cycleworks.com 619/501-2466 On 9/3/07, Matthew Paul Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I didn't know there were many distributions with non-installable live CDs. In that case, I suggest Test-drive or install Ubuntu. While this follows the same pattern as the original text, test-drive is more explicit than start. (Along the same lines, I also suggest changing the CD packaging so that use Ubuntu as a live CD becomes test-drive Ubuntu, etc.) -- Boot-up option 'Start or install Ubuntu' scares new users https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/109064 You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber of the bug. -- Boot-up option 'Start or install Ubuntu' scares new users https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/109064 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 109064] Re: Boot-up option 'Start or install Ubuntu' scares new users
ChrisKelley wrote: Hi Matthew, I like the words test drive. Something that wouldn't scare me so much to try would be a menu like: Ubuntu - Test Drive Ubuntu (without any change to your computer) - Install Ubuntu - [other options] - [...] That's something I would try at my desk without fear of harming my fragile windows setup. Seriously, people who are most likely to switch to linux are those who are the most fearful of harming their windows configuration. I can't wait to get our production PC off of winXP, but we're working on it one step at a time. Messing with that computer is almost a fire-able offense around here. I support the suggestion that many who would like to use ubuntu and escape from windows are terrified of disturbing their windows configuration. Fear and insecurity is endemic with these windows users, particularly if they have data (or time) they do not want to loose. Allaying that fear is important for these users who may have a lot to loose. My own first steps to linux were on an old 'junk' machine, a low risk choice for me, and two things impressed me 1) that it installed so remarkably easily, I was genuinely shocked, 2) that because I had accepted all the defaults during install (blindly, as one does in a windows world), the junk windows 95 on the 'junk' hard drive had been carefully preserved as dual boot, when I had wanted and expected it to be totally wiped! (at that time it was not ubuntu). It gave me much confidence in linux that even 'junk' data would be cared for until I made a conscious decision. I know now that it was a little unrealistic when it later came to using su but as a raw beginner in a GUI installer, it impressed me with what a caring OS linux might be! For whatever reason I was totally hooked from then on. :-) -- alan cocks Kubuntu user#10391 -- Boot-up option 'Start or install Ubuntu' scares new users https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/109064 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 109064] Re: Boot-up option 'Start or install Ubuntu' scares new users
On Mon, Sep 03, 2007 at 07:34:18AM -, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: If I did originally recommend that text, I apologize, and offer it as an example of the importance of usability testing. I agree with trying Start Ubuntu instead. That has the possible problems that (1) it may lead people who fear installation to choose Start Ubuntu in safe graphics mode instead (because they read it as a safe mode that is also graphical), and (2) it may lead people who already want installation to choose Install with driver update CD instead. My next choice would be Test-drive Ubuntu, which would likely eliminate problem #1, but worsen problem #2. An alternative method of reducing problem #1 would be to rename safe graphics mode to basic graphics mode. I think we may be able to eliminate safe graphics mode as a top-level option thanks to Bryce's work on bullet-proof X, but I'm not sure. #2 is the worst of the lot, though, I think. There are many Linux live CDs out there which cannot be used to install, and so it's important that the user realize that is the proper choice if they want to install it. I'm thinking about something like: Start Ubuntu Load driver update CD and wondering whether we should add some text after the first option to remind the user that installation is available. -- - mdz -- Boot-up option 'Start or install Ubuntu' scares new users https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/109064 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 109064] Re: Boot-up option 'Start or install Ubuntu' scares new users
On Mon, Sep 03, 2007 at 12:32:01PM -, Warbo wrote: What I mean is, anyone wanting to install Ubuntu would not be put off by an option saying Start Ubuntu, either because they know about Ubuntu and therefore its installation-from-live-cd feature, or they don't know about Ubuntu and would probably appreciate the live session being there so they can try it out without having to install first, and when they do try it out they'll see the Install icon sitting on the desktop. You're not considering the population of users who know that they want to install this thing, but don't know that Start Ubuntu gives them that opportunity. Most folks adopting Ubuntu have some experience with operating systems (replacing one's OS is a big commitment, and that's how most people get Ubuntu these days), and know that they need to be installed. This is especially confusing as there are many Linux distributions which have a separate CD for starting (live operation) and installing. -- - mdz -- Boot-up option 'Start or install Ubuntu' scares new users https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/109064 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 109064] Re: Boot-up option 'Start or install Ubuntu' scares new users
Matt Zimmerman wrote: On Mon, Sep 03, 2007 at 07:34:18AM -, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: If I did originally recommend that text, I apologize, and offer it as an example of the importance of usability testing. I agree with trying Start Ubuntu instead. That has the possible problems that (1) it may lead people who fear installation to choose Start Ubuntu in safe graphics mode instead (because they read it as a safe mode that is also graphical), and (2) it may lead people who already want installation to choose Install with driver update CD instead. My next choice would be Test-drive Ubuntu, which would likely eliminate problem #1, but worsen problem #2. An alternative method of reducing problem #1 would be to rename safe graphics mode to basic graphics mode. I think we may be able to eliminate safe graphics mode as a top-level option thanks to Bryce's work on bullet-proof X, but I'm not sure. #2 is the worst of the lot, though, I think. There are many Linux live CDs out there which cannot be used to install, and so it's important that the user realize that is the proper choice if they want to install it. I'm thinking about something like: Start Ubuntu Load driver update CD and wondering whether we should add some text after the first option to remind the user that installation is available. Yes I favour that: Start Ubuntu (includes option for install) would cover all concerns I have come across -- alan cocks Kubuntu user#10391 -- Boot-up option 'Start or install Ubuntu' scares new users https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/109064 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 109064] Re: Boot-up option 'Start or install Ubuntu' scares new users
On Monday 03 September 2007 13:49:57 Matt Zimmerman wrote: This is especially confusing as there are many Linux distributions which have a separate CD for starting (live operation) and installing. -- - mdz Even Ubuntu worked like that for a while. But the more recent versions only use one CD. -- BUGabundo :o) (``-_-´´) http://Ubuntu.BUGabundo.net Linux user #443786GPG key 1024D/A1784EBB -- Boot-up option 'Start or install Ubuntu' scares new users https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/109064 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 109064] Re: Boot-up option 'Start or install Ubuntu' scares new users
How about the concept of seeking out windows computer users at a campus and simply asking them their thoughts? When I recently chose kubuntu, it was after seeking out a change from windows. If I had stumbled upon ubuntu on my own before I was motivated and wanting to switch, none of what I read here would have helped me to try linux. :-/ -- Chris Kelley President www.ca-cycleworks.com On 9/3/07, BUGabundo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday 03 September 2007 13:49:57 Matt Zimmerman wrote: This is especially confusing as there are many Linux distributions which have a separate CD for starting (live operation) and installing. -- - mdz Even Ubuntu worked like that for a while. But the more recent versions only use one CD. -- BUGabundo :o) (``-_-´´) http://Ubuntu.BUGabundo.net Linux user #443786GPG key 1024D/A1784EBB -- Boot-up option 'Start or install Ubuntu' scares new users https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/109064 You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber of the bug. -- Boot-up option 'Start or install Ubuntu' scares new users https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/109064 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 109064] Re: Boot-up option 'Start or install Ubuntu' scares new users
Mike Feravolo wrote: Hello: It's a great idea to use the Live-CD as a method of promoting Ubuntu to users of other operating systems. Why does the Live-CD have any questions at all and just boot up into the Ubuntu Desktop and then be done with it. An Icon on the Desktop that says something like Install Ubuntu Now, should let people that it hasn't been installed yet. If someone already knows that they what to install Ubuntu, then they need to get an Installation CD. Which is the one that should ask questions, like Start Ubuntu in Live Mode, Install Ubuntu, Check Memory, Repair Broken Installation . . . . People don't need to think about options if they never seen Ubuntu in the first place. When they load it in computer that is running Windows have it tell them that it will not hurt there computer and all the have to do is restart and enjoy. our main target audience are established windows users. They have good reason to be frightened of anything messing up their windows configuration. It is such a nightmare to reinstall etc. Talking to just ordinary windpsws users, they common factor I see is thi fear, real anxiety. They will try something new if they are clear that it can not cause them harm. -- alan cocks Kubuntu user#10391 -- Boot-up option 'Start or install Ubuntu' scares new users https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/109064 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 109064] Re: Boot-up option 'Start or install Ubuntu' scares new users
On Wed, Aug 08, 2007 at 09:51:25AM -, Colin Watson wrote: I think I agree with this, and I feel the best option is probably to remove or install. We originally used the Start or install Ubuntu text because we wanted to emphasise that the live CD would let you do an installation too, but this may not be as necessary now as it was in Dapper. I'm going to ask around a little bit first, though. Notably, someone recently pointed out that in the WinFOSS UI, no clear hint is given that the CD can be used for installation (only to try Ubuntu). I don't know whether start there would effectively get the message across as well. -- - mdz -- Boot-up option 'Start or install Ubuntu' scares new users https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/109064 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 109064] Re: Boot-up option 'Start or install Ubuntu' scares new users
Matt Zimmerman wrote: On Wed, Aug 08, 2007 at 09:51:25AM -, Colin Watson wrote: I think I agree with this, and I feel the best option is probably to remove or install. We originally used the Start or install Ubuntu text because we wanted to emphasise that the live CD would let you do an installation too, but this may not be as necessary now as it was in Dapper. I'm going to ask around a little bit first, though. Notably, someone recently pointed out that in the WinFOSS UI, no clear hint is given that the CD can be used for installation (only to try Ubuntu). I don't know whether start there would effectively get the message across as well. It is useful to get the full message across, but the existing terse words are frightening to real newcomers. A boolean start 'OR' Install is fine for some cognoscenti. I know of real cases where people have avoided its use simply because they can not trust the risk in those words. Even a terse 'Run live CD (with option to install)' would avoid the problem. As the Ubuntu coverage increases, we must expect more real newcomers to try it. A live CD is a concept of great value from Linux. It is totally opposite to the concept of 'put the CD in and it will Install'! These two major and very different facilities need to be offered with care and be distinguished as being different. A long time windows user will expect that a CD cannot be *trusted*, and it will install at the first opportunity. This is particularly the case for a 'Free' CD. Please let us be clear enough to (non boolean) readers that the Live CDs are SAFE. -- alan cocks Kubuntu user#10391 -- Boot-up option 'Start or install Ubuntu' scares new users https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/109064 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 109064] Re: Boot-up option 'Start or install Ubuntu' scares new users
On Wed, Aug 08, 2007 at 11:25:57AM -, candtalan wrote: Matt Zimmerman wrote: On Wed, Aug 08, 2007 at 09:51:25AM -, Colin Watson wrote: I think I agree with this, and I feel the best option is probably to remove or install. We originally used the Start or install Ubuntu text because we wanted to emphasise that the live CD would let you do an installation too, but this may not be as necessary now as it was in Dapper. I'm going to ask around a little bit first, though. Notably, someone recently pointed out that in the WinFOSS UI, no clear hint is given that the CD can be used for installation (only to try Ubuntu). I don't know whether start there would effectively get the message across as well. It is useful to get the full message across, but the existing terse words are frightening to real newcomers. A boolean start 'OR' Install is fine for some cognoscenti. I know of real cases where people have avoided its use simply because they can not trust the risk in those words. Even a terse 'Run live CD (with option to install)' would avoid the problem. Perhaps, but it has its own problems. live CD is jargon; a user who is new to Linux is unlikely to know what that means. Run Ubuntu or simply Start would be better. I like your idea of indicating the possibility of installation as a secondary activity, though. -- - mdz -- Boot-up option 'Start or install Ubuntu' scares new users https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/109064 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 109064] Re: Boot-up option 'Start or install Ubuntu' scares new users
Matt Zimmerman wrote: On Wed, Aug 08, 2007 at 11:25:57AM -, candtalan wrote: Matt Zimmerman wrote: On Wed, Aug 08, 2007 at 09:51:25AM -, Colin Watson wrote: I think I agree with this, and I feel the best option is probably to remove or install. We originally used the Start or install Ubuntu text because we wanted to emphasise that the live CD would let you do an installation too, but this may not be as necessary now as it was in Dapper. I'm going to ask around a little bit first, though. Notably, someone recently pointed out that in the WinFOSS UI, no clear hint is given that the CD can be used for installation (only to try Ubuntu). I don't know whether start there would effectively get the message across as well. It is useful to get the full message across, but the existing terse words are frightening to real newcomers. A boolean start 'OR' Install is fine for some cognoscenti. I know of real cases where people have avoided its use simply because they can not trust the risk in those words. Even a terse 'Run live CD (with option to install)' would avoid the problem. Perhaps, but it has its own problems. live CD is jargon; a user who is new to Linux is unlikely to know what that means. Run Ubuntu or simply Start would be better. I like your idea of indicating the possibility of installation as a secondary activity, though. Yes, point taken -- alan cocks Kubuntu user#10391 -- Boot-up option 'Start or install Ubuntu' scares new users https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/109064 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 109064] Re: Boot-up option 'Start or install Ubuntu' scares new users
Hello: It's a great idea to use the Live-CD as a method of promoting Ubuntu to users of other operating systems. Why does the Live-CD have any questions at all and just boot up into the Ubuntu Desktop and then be done with it. An Icon on the Desktop that says something like Install Ubuntu Now, should let people that it hasn't been installed yet. If someone already knows that they what to install Ubuntu, then they need to get an Installation CD. Which is the one that should ask questions, like Start Ubuntu in Live Mode, Install Ubuntu, Check Memory, Repair Broken Installation . . . . People don't need to think about options if they never seen Ubuntu in the first place. When they load it in computer that is running Windows have it tell them that it will not hurt there computer and all the have to do is restart and enjoy. Mike Feravolo -- Boot-up option 'Start or install Ubuntu' scares new users https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/109064 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 109064] Re: Boot-up option 'Start or install Ubuntu' scares new users
Charles wrote: While Start the Ubuntu LiveCD and Start in Live mode, without affecting your Hard Disk both would probably scare a user less, now neither of those options say anything about installing. If I boot from an OS CD and none of the options are Install, I think I am going to be a little confused. 'Live CD (can install)' or similar simple title would be ok -- alan cocks Kubuntu user#10391 -- Boot-up option 'Start or install Ubuntu' scares new users https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/109064 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 109064] Re: Boot-up option 'Start or install Ubuntu' scares new users
Charles wrote: While Start the Ubuntu LiveCD and Start in Live mode, without affecting your Hard Disk both would probably scare a user less, now neither of those options say anything about installing. If I boot from an OS CD and none of the options are Install, I think I am going to be a little confused. 'Live CD (can install)' 'Live CD with install option' or similar simple title would be ok -- alan cocks Kubuntu user#10391 -- Boot-up option 'Start or install Ubuntu' scares new users https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/109064 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 109064] Re: Boot-up option 'Start or install Ubuntu' scares new users
Phil Bull wrote: Bugs aren't just about 'programming' issues, they're a way of tracking problems with the distribution, whatever the problem may be. It's common practice to file bugs against translations, documentation and other assets (such as the Ubuntu website) for example. If you find a problem with Ubuntu, please don't hesitate to report it just because it isn't a software problem. Back to the problem, it seems that the simplest solution would be to have two menu entries which result in an identical live CD session, e.g. 1. Try Ubuntu without installing it 2. Install Ubuntu Both options would do the same thing. yes., or 1. Try Ubuntu without installing it 2. When running- Includes Option to actually install if you wish -- alan cocks Kubuntu user#10391 -- Boot-up option 'Start or install Ubuntu' scares new users https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/109064 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
