Re: [Bug 628087] Re: Maverick ubiquity lacks option to change computer name
On 09/09/10 23:57, Dave Gilbert wrote: (I think this is a general case of over-simplification - please don't take it too far!) Yes, it's a mistake to go too far, but you don't know how far is too far till you really push it. I'd rather we erred on the side of oversimplification, because we have a big chorus of detailed analysis that will point out the mistakes. There are fewer voices for simplicity in free software than voices for options / codebaths / buttons / gadgets / hacks / gconf settings :) Mark -- Maverick ubiquity lacks option to change computer name https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/628087 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 628087] Re: Maverick ubiquity lacks option to change computer name
Now to the fact that there is no way to change the name of the machine. If that is a use-case we need to support, let's design and make the best way to do that. this is only needed indeed if all computers you install in a network end up with the same name assigned automatically. if there is a way of distinctively being able to point to a machine by name (and if the user *knows* this name) we do not need any UI to change it imho (we didn't need it in the past, why should we now). the important fact i tried to point out above with my avahi comment is that we provide many applications that are network accessible by computer name through their name.local address, it is a feature we promote and which is documented in plenty of places. on an enduser level rhythmbox shares its music based on that, ubuntuone uses the name to identify machines for file sharing to just name two of many examples ... on a developer level people use the avahi protocol for logging in to the machines through ssh ... with the currently existing solution we: a) set the names of all machines in a network if installed by the same user to the exact same value ... and what is way worse ... b) we do not tell the user the name of the machine at all at any point of the installation if we keep the existing behavior we need a way for the user to change names to make sure she can set the name to something unique in the network after installation if we change behavior to use something generated based on MAC adress or some such we need to at least *tell* the user what the name of the machine is so it is possible identify the computer in the network after install. -- Maverick ubiquity lacks option to change computer name https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/628087 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 628087] Re: Maverick ubiquity lacks option to change computer name
Ivanka, to reframe Oliver's comment: we heavily promote the idea that lots of apps allow easy sharing with machinename.local. And all of those break if you end up with two machines called michael-desktop.local So, we probably need to do this. I agree with your assessment that we do not want a whole new page, or Advanced rathole, for this. We could pre-populate the field using Michael's preferred algorithm of user-desktop|laptop|[netbook]?. In future we should probably ALSO do an avahi name check to see if that's going to conflict with something on the current network and default to a -2 or some other disambiguator accordingly. Mark -- Maverick ubiquity lacks option to change computer name https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/628087 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 628087] Re: Maverick ubiquity lacks option to change computer name
As David said, we prefer to avoid Advanced option sets and questions. They create alternative code paths that are inevitably poorly tested, and compounded by one another. We are very fortunate to benefit from the amazing Debian installer on the alternative install CD that provides very precise control over the install. That's our Advanced install :-) Mark -- Maverick ubiquity lacks option to change computer name https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/628087 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 628087] Re: Maverick ubiquity lacks option to change computer name
On 06/09/10 22:41, David Guest wrote: I'd never really thought about your first point Mark, but I agree, it would be nice to have an applet to shield users from the command line for something as simple as a hostname change. Indeed. I think it belongs in one of the system settings, so I've cc'd MPT for comment. MPT, background is in the bug. As for the second, I think it's important that it be exposed in the installer, even if it gets hidden behind an Advanced tab. It could be an auto-populated field in the current form (eg user-desktop) with a label that informs users that most people do not need to change this, but may need to if they have multiple machines on their network. I hope this can be changed in time for the 10.10 release - happy to help wherever needed! It may not be possible to add this UI to the 10.10 installer this late in the cycle. Evan would be able to comment. I'm not sure if there *is* an advanced tab at the moment, and I wouldn't want to add one just for this. If the conflicting-names issue is critical, we could resolve that by changing the algorithm of the name allocation using a most-likely-unique disambiguating suffix, like the network mac address minor bytes, or falling back to date, so you get a computer called: john-desktop-a0b3 or john-desktop-0912 (if you installed on the 12th september) Mark -- Maverick ubiquity lacks option to change computer name https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/628087 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 628087] Re: Maverick ubiquity lacks option to change computer name
Choosing a custom host name is right on the threshold of necessary, afaics. At this stage I'm supportive of the current approach of making it a live-CD boot parameter as long as that's well documented. We're definitely not going to add it to the questions we expose to every user, nor are we going toadd an Advanced GUI just for this use case. Mark -- Maverick ubiquity lacks option to change computer name https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/628087 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 628087] Re: Maverick ubiquity lacks option to change computer name
@Mark I'm going to lobby for putting the user first. And, to do so we can possibly lift (and improve) a page from the Fruit Sellers In Cupertino (FSIC) on this one: Please type a name your computer. It's a simple question and gives the user a sense of being in control. (They are already typing their own name anyways. One more box isn't torture.) It also adds a touch of personality to their computer and fun to the whole experience of installing. IMHO this is a better approach than silently choosing a name on the user's behalf that they will be stuck with later, or forcing them into a clean up task after install. If naming one's computer something fun isn't seen as an appropriate install task, then providing an obvious GUI to change it from System: Preferences ought to be our compromise. Something like an About this computer app would do nicely. -- Maverick ubiquity lacks option to change computer name https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/628087 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 628087] Re: Maverick ubiquity lacks option to change computer name
Am Dienstag, den 07.09.2010, 14:40 + schrieb Mark Shuttleworth: Choosing a custom host name is right on the threshold of necessary, afaics. At this stage I'm supportive of the current approach of making it a live-CD boot parameter as long as that's well documented. We're definitely not going to add it to the questions we expose to every user, nor are we going toadd an Advanced GUI just for this use case. Mark note that we ship avahi by default, if you install say five computers with the same main user all your systems at home are called user-desktop/laptop by default now. imho as long as we do not offer any way to changing the hostname in a userfriendly way (without having to edit /etc/hosts and /etc/hostname) that gets very annoying for people having more than one Ubuntu machine at home. i would rather propose to keep the option during maverick abd during natty add an entry in one one of the system tools to easily change the system name of an installed system and drop the installer option by then. ciao oli -- Maverick ubiquity lacks option to change computer name https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/628087 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
