Re: Please Comment: Proposal to change the name of Applications - Add/Remove...
Am Donnerstag, den 15.01.2009, 20:15 +0100 schrieb Oliver Grawert: Am Donnerstag, den 15.01.2009, 11:01 -0800 schrieb Rick Spencer: On 01/15/2009 10:53 AM, Oliver Grawert wrote: i doubt she would have that thorough understanding from an opaque name like software library Interesting, so you feel that software library is opaque. Perhaps there is another place name that would have worked for her? well, the thing is that it isnt a place but the button in the menu to add or remove menuitems. for her it directly does what she expects it to do and she immediately understands the concept because the app itself visually connects to teh menu structure. i'm not sure she would understand the concept of a software place as replacement that easily ... I can only second Oliver. You should also care about the existing users. Why confuse them with this naming change? Working on having only a single representation of applications on the system is a more worthy target: Currently we have got the menu item and the item in the add/remove dialog. Why not use the same object to start and remove applications and therefor renaming add/remove... to install AFAIK gnome-main-menu of Novell tries to take this approach. By the way ellipses are used to show the user that a menu entry requires further input. The user interface of gnome-app-install is the one of an elaborated dialog and not the one of a full application which you would expect from a software library menu entry. Cheers, Sebastian -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Please Comment: Proposal to change the name of Applications - Add/Remove...
Am Donnerstag, den 15.01.2009, 20:15 +0100 schrieb Oliver Grawert: Am Donnerstag, den 15.01.2009, 11:01 -0800 schrieb Rick Spencer: On 01/15/2009 10:53 AM, Oliver Grawert wrote: i doubt she would have that thorough understanding from an opaque name like software library Interesting, so you feel that software library is opaque. Perhaps there is another place name that would have worked for her? well, the thing is that it isnt a place but the button in the menu to add or remove menuitems. for her it directly does what she expects it to do and she immediately understands the concept because the app itself visually connects to teh menu structure. i'm not sure she would understand the concept of a software place as replacement that easily ... I can only second Oliver. You should also care about the existing users. Why confuse them with this naming change? Working on having only a single representation of applications on the system is a more worthy target: Currently we have got the menu item and the item in the add/remove dialog. Why not use the same object to start and remove applications and therefor renaming add/remove... to install AFAIK gnome-main-menu of Novell tries to take this approach. By the way ellipses are used to show the user that a menu entry requires further input. The user interface of gnome-app-install is the one of an elaborated dialog and not the one of a full application which you would expect from a software library menu entry. Cheers, Sebastian -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: gnome-power-manager human icon set
Am Montag, den 15.12.2008, 10:01 -0600 schrieb Ted Gould: On Sun, 2008-12-14 at 11:38 +, Matthew East wrote: I'd like to draw some attention to this bug, which has been open now for over 2 and a half years, and is still a problem in the latest release. https://bugs.launchpad.net/gnome-power/+bug/32921 +1 We could also patch GPM so that it would use more icons if that would help. I believe that only uses icons on the 20s for percentage currently. You should better create a patch and propose it upstream. Cheers, Sebastian -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: DisplayConfigGtk
Am Donnerstag, den 15.11.2007, 12:57 +1300 schrieb Matthew Paul Thomas: That said, after reading this thread I don't understand the use case for applying settings only for the current session anyway. I suggest addressing that question first, as it will help you compose the rest of the design. Technical limitations. If we write to the configuration file the monitor will be enabled weither it is actually connected or not. So you could end up with an important part of your desktop missing. Cheers signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: DisplayConfigGtk
Am Montag, den 19.11.2007, 13:40 + schrieb Scott James Remnant: On Sat, 2007-11-03 at 22:21 -0400, Sebastian Heinlein wrote: the coming XRandR support will require some changes to the layout of the main window and the monitor dialog, since we are going to support configurations that can be completely applied on the fly (xrandr for open source drivers) and file based configuration. Furthermore I would like to completely replace GNOME's resolution changing capplet. Bear in mind that file based configuration is eventually going away. If you select a configuration with xrandr, it should be stored such that when you login, the settings are re-applied. The existing xrandr screen resolution applet does this today through gnome-settings-daemon. If I open that applet, I would expect to be able to set up screens how I like, and then every single time I login ever-after, the screens will be set up that way. I do not expect this to change any other user's setting; their screens should stay set up the way *they* like them. The only additional option then becomes making my settings the default for other users who haven't expressed a preference (ie. gdm's settings). This should be a locked option unless I've authenticated as an admin (cf. PolicyKit), and should change the settings of the gdm user so that gdm's gnome-settings-daemon applies them when it starts. (Longer-term, this preference would also be used for the initial mode setting by the kernel.) That is the basic idea, but we have to see what we can get. Some discussion is happening on the gnome-cc list. Generally there will be always need for the configuration file or some kind of overwriting infrastructure. Think of drivers that do not support XRandR 1.2 or the bulletproof x. Currently it seems that Fedora will push a capplet that can only deal with XRandR 1.2 what doesn't seem to be sufficient. I would like to see a hook in the gnome-settings-daemon that allows to start an alternative configuration tool if the GNOME tool doesn't provide any backend plugins. Cheers, Sebastian signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Panel resizing
Am Dienstag, den 13.11.2007, 12:57 -0800 schrieb Ted Gould: One of the UI reviews of Ubuntu Gutsy specifically mentioned that the panel resizing was not good. And specifically that in the world of SVG icons it should be perfect. Having never resized my panels I set out to grab some screenshots: AFAIK the panel will be rewritten for GNOME 2.22. Such discussions should go upstream. Furthermore the font size should not change. If you choose to have a larger font the panel will be larger automatically. signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: DisplayConfigGtk
Am Dienstag, den 06.11.2007, 13:39 +0100 schrieb Vincent Untz: Le samedi 03 novembre 2007, à 22:21 -0400, Sebastian Heinlein a écrit : Hello, the coming XRandR support will require some changes to the layout of the main window and the monitor dialog, since we are going to support configurations that can be completely applied on the fly (xrandr for open source drivers) and file based configuration. Furthermore I would like to completely replace GNOME's resolution changing capplet. I'm really worried that this is duplicating some work that is also planned (or already being done, I don't know) upstream. The GNOME control center maintainers want to have a nice screen configuration tool, using xrandr. It might make sense to do this work upstream, and have a script that detects if the computer has a xrandr-suitable driver to launch the upstream tool or DisplayConfigGtk (which would deal with the need to write to xorg.conf). I already wrote to the Fedora guys about collaboration. Furthermore I took the discussion to the gnomecc list. signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: DisplayConfigGtk
Am Sonntag, den 04.11.2007, 04:13 + schrieb Tristan Wibberley: On Sat, 2007-11-03 at 23:46 -0400, Sebastian Heinlein wrote: Am Sonntag, den 04.11.2007, 02:47 + schrieb Tristan Wibberley: I am not sure about the future of the test button. Currently we launch a second x server with the new config file. But many drivers and cards do not support this correctly and things tend to break. If we can apply changes instantly a confirmation dialog with keep and revert button would appear after hitting one of the apply buttons. So the button order for the main window would be the following one: [Apply Permanently] [Cancel] [Apply Temporarily] But we would still need at least tooltips: I'm worried about the Permanently. Most users would be very afraid of pressing that button, and thus afraid even of opening that dialogue - just in case. The problem with them thinking it is permanent is that they'll realise that they might want something else someday :) Restore the chosen configuration after starting the computer and Revert configuration after shutting down the computer? I think it's a bit too wordy - a lot of users would worry or press cancel to avoid the issue. Is it really about starting/shutting down - not logging in/out? If about starting/shutting down - why? If about logging in/out then how about Use until I log out and Use now and at log in? I took a look at the workflow. It seems the best to put the as default button on the confirmation dialog. [Save as Default] [Cancel] [Keep] Perhaps most users don't want to store something as default before testing it. But the label could still get some improvements. signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
DisplayConfigGtk
Hello, the coming XRandR support will require some changes to the layout of the main window and the monitor dialog, since we are going to support configurations that can be completely applied on the fly (xrandr for open source drivers) and file based configuration. Furthermore I would like to completely replace GNOME's resolution changing capplet. So the user must have administrative privileges to enable mulithead with proprietary drivers or to make the configuration permanently. On the other hand temporarily changing the resolution (free and proprietary drivers) and temporarily using dualhead (free drivers) should not require administrative privileges. I plan to add a Store configuration permanently checkbutton to the main window, see http://glatzor.de/filesink/displayconfig/restore.png The checkbutton will be insensitive and inactive if the user is not in the admin group (cannot sudo to root). If the user makes use of proprietary drivers the checkbutton will also be insensitive but active. Clicking on the OK button will ask for the root password if the checkbutton is active. Perhaps I will find the time to use PolicyKit for this, but I am not sure if there will be enough time or how the future of PolicyKit will be. Input welcome. Cheers, Sebastian signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: User Interface of the X Configuration Tool
Am Dienstag, den 05.06.2007, 14:28 +1200 schrieb Matthew Paul Thomas: On Jun 4, 2007, at 11:15 PM, Sebastian Heinlein wrote: Am Montag, den 04.06.2007, 22:43 +1200 schrieb Matthew Paul Thomas: ... So here's what the competition does: http://think-well.org/articles/2006/12/28/managing-multiple-displays But if your primary display is the one that's hosed, you're still stuck unless you have a keyboard combo set up to launch the Displays window in the first place (because you can't launch it from an invisible menu bar or Dock). Small side note: There is going to be a x keeps crashing session, that will start displayconfig. But I don't know if it will enable multiple monitors by default. ... At the top center of the window could be an option menu listing the available displays (defaulting to the primary display), followed by a separator, then items for managing multiple displays. The rest of the window would show settings for the current display. For example: |(x) Displays (-)| | __ | ||__LCD (Primary)_:^|| || || | (display-specific settings here) | :: The menu when opened: |(x)Displays (-)| | __ | ||/:LCD:(Primary):::|| || Canon LV-7575 || || Unknown || ||--|| || Graphics Card...|| || Arrange Displays... || : : Graphics Card... and Arrange Displays... would both open separate dialogs, and would not be actual choices. I agree with Corey and Mikko that the arrangement UI should use draggable thumbnails of each display. For accessibility, each thumbnail could be focusable and movable using the arrow keys. In GNOME we use a notebook with tabs or a left sided list view. It would not be consistent. That's a strange thing to say, because you've already added an option menu for locations that works much the same way, like the one in network-admin. (I hope it's sharing the list of locations with network-admin.) Not really. It has got a label that gives a clear idea of what you could find inside of the combobox menu: Locations. It only has got one purpose. Your widget would contain different entry types. The graphics card entry would not even refer to another object type but also launch a sub dialog, instead of modifying the current dialog. Before you could reuse the locations from the network admin you would have to introduce a meta concept of locations. Whether a list of objects should be presented in an option menu, a combo box, a listbox, or a text field with compulsory auto-complete depends not on the OS, but on the likely number of items and how prominent the list should be. For example, word processors (such as AbiWord) typically have an option menu or combo box for typeface selection in their toolbar, but a listbox for the same set of typefaces in their Font dialog. I am against using the combobox for such a central element of the dialog, since it hides all other information at the first time. Since -- as you pointed out -- most people will have only one display, I think it is quite prominent enough as an option menu, the same as in Windows. (And I know my Ascii art is dodgy, but I did intend it to be an option menu, not a combo box.) In GTK terms the widget would be an entry combobox. The term options menu refers to a deprecated GTK widget. Like the name already suggests, why should we allow the user to put any text into the chooser? The set of available options is really small. I think that the widget even on the Windows dialog looks very strange. Especially there is no indication to find the arrangement and graphics card action in the combobox. At the first time it will only show the name of a display - in the worst case even Unknown. Can you not even determine whether the primary display is an LCD or a CRT? At first there is a technical limitation: auto-detecting only works for the first display correctly. And if it fails we won't have got not any idea at all. But there is also the problem that we have got two information sources: on the one hand the configuration from the config file and on the other hand some run time auto detected facts. It is sometimes hard to make a decision on which we should base
Feature Matrix - Re: User Interface of the X Configuration Tool
Here is the list of configuration options that we want to support: Screen: - Type (chosen from a build-in list or from a Windows driver file) - Resolution - Refresh Rate - Dual head role (primary/secondary) - Dual head position (left, right, above, below) - Used status (enabled/disabled) [- gamma correction (perhaps in the future)] Graphics Card: - Driver (chosen from a list) - Video RAM (required for some cards) - Custom options -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: User Interface of the X Configuration Tool
Am Mittwoch, den 06.06.2007, 00:16 +1200 schrieb Matthew Paul Thomas: On Jun 5, 2007, at 7:01 PM, Sebastian Heinlein wrote: Am Dienstag, den 05.06.2007, 14:28 +1200 schrieb Matthew Paul Thomas: On Jun 4, 2007, at 11:15 PM, Sebastian Heinlein wrote: Your widget would contain different entry types. I think the location menu should eventually behave the same way. (The current scheme, of three unlabelled buttons to the right of the menu, is unattractive and unreasonably difficult to understand.) It is not common in Windows for dropdown listboxes to contain commands for managing the list they contain, but that's because they're drawn as listboxes rather than as menus, and it is much more obvious that a menu item will perform a command than that a listbox item will. But this GUI pattern is quite common for option menus in Mac OS, and I think the only reason it's not common in Gnome is that there isn't nearly as much Gnome software yet. I attached a screenshot with all the combo-, option- and etc. boxes of GTK. I think this should put an end to this confusion. The graphics card entry would not even refer to another object type but also launch a sub dialog, instead of modifying the current dialog. You might be right, the graphics card item might need to be a separate button. I can't tell that until I understand how graphics cards relate to displays. Before you could reuse the locations from the network admin you would have to introduce a meta concept of locations. That's what I'm suggesting. :-) I doubt there needs to be a separate Location Manager, though. Probably it would be enough to have an unobtrusive management interface in each tool that uses the locations. I could only image a few setups where the network configuration would correspond to the display configuration. Most networks are just DHCP ones. E.g. although you are on your company's network (location at work) you would still need different display configurations (e.g. presentation or workspace). Just sharing exactly the same locations doesn't work. I think that the widget even on the Windows dialog looks very strange. You may be looking at screenshots and thinking that the Windows dialog uses a combo box, but it doesn't. You've been misled by the Windows bug I described above, where dropdown listboxes and combo boxes look exactly the same. In Windows Vista, the default theme makes it much more obvious that the monitor selector is a dropdown listbox that you cannot type into. http://urlx.org/cybernetnews.com/83eb1 Is this a mockup or the current Vista screen settings? ... Sorry, I don't yet understand the ratio of graphics cards to displays and why they need to be configured separately. Enlighten me. :-) A visual connection between the card and the screens would make it easier to identify Unkown devices on multiple card setups. But I skipped this in my latest approach too. Some time ago I posted a mockup that used the graphics card as the main object. You suggested to separate the graphics cards configuration by introducing a sub dialog. :) Is there somewhere I can read about the relationship between cards and displays? Is it 1:1? Is it 1:n? How friendly, and how long, are typical detected names for cards? Approximately what proportion of people have 1 card, what proportion have 2, and what proportion have 3? Card names can differ quite a lot. I attached a quite large list of graphics card names. So the names are quite unfriendly. Most (not linux) users perhaps even don't know the exact model. That is the impression I have got from the forums. I cannot give you any proportions of the user groups. But the ones with only one card seem to be the majority. There are also people who have got a slow onboard card and an additional pci-e or agp card. The group of people with three displays are really a minority. If there is anybody using three monitors he or she should raise his or her voice! I don't know many cards that have got three outputs. E.g. the T60 has got an internal display, an external vga and an external dvi (in the docking station). Most cards support one or two displays. ... If we get the locations chooser there would be two comboboxes. That would result in a quite nested dialog. ... That's a good point. But perhaps you don't actually need locations after all. Instead, store all the detected identifying information for up to (say) the 50 most recent unique displays the user configured, together with how they configured each of them the last time they used them. (This information wouldn't be shown anywhere in the GUI, it would be used solely for making things Just Work.) Then the next time a display is detected, compare it against the list of previous displays. If there's a match, automatically set the display to the configuration the user used for that display last time. This feature was thought
Re: User Interface of the X Configuration Tool
Am Sonntag, den 03.06.2007, 23:35 +0100 schrieb Andrew Sobala: The Mac bottom bar, much as it is annoying, does reordering-drag-and-drop very well by making space under the mouse. Monitors can shrink to make this work... Sorry, although I administrate a few Apple machines, I am not so familiar with the user interface. What do you refer to by mac bottom bar? Cheers, Sebastian -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: User Interface of the X Configuration Tool
Am Dienstag, den 05.06.2007, 23:58 +0100 schrieb Andrew Sobala: Sebastian Heinlein wrote: Am Sonntag, den 03.06.2007, 23:35 +0100 schrieb Andrew Sobala: The Mac bottom bar, much as it is annoying, does reordering-drag-and-drop very well by making space under the mouse. Monitors can shrink to make this work... Sorry, although I administrate a few Apple machines, I am not so familiar with the user interface. What do you refer to by mac bottom bar? It's a bar, by default along the bottom of the screen, that has application launchers (and minimised windows, but we'll ignore those for now) on it. If you try to reorder the applications, the act of dragging one along the bar will make the others move out of the way to create a decent fitts-law target. Ah, now I know what you mean. The bar that everybody sets to auto hide and you always have to guess on which side it is hidden when you use another one's desktop :) How should monitors shrink? Cheers, Sebastian -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: User Interface of the X Configuration Tool
Am Dienstag, den 05.06.2007, 17:29 -0700 schrieb Corey Burger: On 6/5/07, Sebastian Heinlein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am Donnerstag, den 31.05.2007, 12:07 -0700 schrieb Corey Burger: * Monitor is a much more common term than Screen. Screem is the term used by GNOME: e.g. in screen resolution or screen saver. But I am no native speaker :) So are these just different contexts? Multiple monitor setup would be also more common than multiple screen setup? At least in North America, a screen is a thing on a door or something at a movie theatre, not a box on your desk that is a monitor. There are any British on the list? -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: User Interface of the X Configuration Tool
Am Sonntag, den 03.06.2007, 19:44 +0300 schrieb Mikko Ohtamaa: You would need a lot of space for the drop target areas around the main monitor. Furthermore drag and drop is very hard to discover for the user. So we would have to add normals controls too. Since we need the normal controls anyway we should use them as a starting point. You would need a lot of space for the drop target areas around the main monitor. Furthermore drag and drop is very hard to discover for the user. Not really if you have clever design - Drag and drop is the most natural user interface for moving objects (except for those vim/emacs users ;) Perhaps most naturally but not the most common one, since only a view applications implemented it. Furthermore it requires good mouse skills. Which points to the next week point: accessibility. - Change the cursor on monitor image hover To which symbol? - Add text Drag your monitors so that it corresponds your desktop setup Generally I think that if you need to explain your interface inside of the interface you have very likely done something wrong. - Drag and drop area can be made pop-up to utilize all available screen estate I cannot make an image of this. Additionally I don't see a connection between position changes (drag and drop) and duplicating (cloning) in the real world. It would be nice if you could create some paper draws or even a short storyboard of your idea. Cheers, Sebastian -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: User Interface of the X Configuration Tool
Am Montag, den 04.06.2007, 22:43 +1200 schrieb Matthew Paul Thomas: On May 30, 2007, at 6:12 AM, Sebastian Heinlein wrote: ... the new and shiny GTK frontend to displayconfig (the x configuration part of the KDE admin suite named guidance) has got some usability issues. I would like to start a discussion about this to get your input and comments. So here's what the competition does: http://think-well.org/articles/2006/12/28/managing-multiple-displays How does the MacOS dialog allow to change the resolution of each monitor? ... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DisplayConfigGTK According to this specification, there will be one UI (gnome-display-properties) for people who have one display, another UI (display-config-gtk) for people who have two displays, and yet another UI (hacking the X config files yourself) for people who have three or more displays. I think this is unfortunate and unnecessary. Having discussed this with you on IRC, I understand that the current situation is: * we can't auto-detect the existence of displays, because of limitations in X; * we can't put a separate settings dialog on each display (like Mac OS X does), because we can't rely on the config on any given display being non-broken. These make the interface more complex than it could be, but I still think we could have a single interface for any number of displays. gnome-display-properties will not do the job completely for a one monitor setup. On many systems it does not provide the wanted resolutions. Furthermore it only allows to change the resolution of the corresponding user and not to do any system wide changes. So I am also clearly against providing multiple tools. The basic idea of displayconfig was to use xrand for instant applying as far as possible but still base the configuration on the xorg.conf. The user at the front of the computer should always have got the right to change the xorg.conf, e.g. see network manager. At the top center of the window could be an option menu listing the available displays (defaulting to the primary display), followed by a separator, then items for managing multiple displays. The rest of the window would show settings for the current display. For example: |(x) Displays (-)| | __ | ||__LCD (Primary)_:^|| || || | (display-specific settings here) | :: The menu when opened: |(x)Displays (-)| | __ | ||/:LCD:(Primary):::|| || Canon LV-7575 || || Unknown || ||--|| || Graphics Card...|| || Arrange Displays... || : : Graphics Card... and Arrange Displays... would both open separate dialogs, and would not be actual choices. I agree with Corey and Mikko that the arrangement UI should use draggable thumbnails of each display. For accessibility, each thumbnail could be focusable and movable using the arrow keys. In GNOME we use a notebook with tabs or a left sided list view. It would not be consistent. I am against using the combobox for such a central element of the dialog, since it hides all other information at the first time. Especially there is no indication to find the arrangement and graphics card action in the combobox. At the first time it will only show the name of a display - in the worst case even Unknown. Additionally you have to think of systems with multiple cards. Please see my previous mails about the bad workflow of setting up a dual screen setup if the configuration is scattered on different dialogs or tabs. Cheers, Sebastian -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: User Interface of the X Configuration Tool
Am Donnerstag, den 31.05.2007, 19:04 +0200 schrieb Sebastian Heinlein: I made a new design that allows a much faster workflow: http://glatzor.de/filesink/allinone.png I implemented the above design. You can get feisty packages here: http://glatzor.de/filesink/displayconfig/feisty/ It now depends on the guidance-backends. Cheers, Sebastian -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Fwd: User Interface of the X Configuration Tool
Am Samstag, den 02.06.2007, 13:44 +0100 schrieb (``-_-´´) -- Fernando: Do I file it on launchpad? That is the place where we keep track of Ubuntu bugs. So yes. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Fwd: User Interface of the X Configuration Tool
Am Donnerstag, den 31.05.2007, 23:21 +0100 schrieb (``-_-´´) -- Fernando: Well, I gave it one more try, and ended up one more time without GDM, after pressing the test button. After reboot, I tried again, using this time the generic monitor, but it fall back to my laptop LCD. So I think that X aint recongnising my SVideo tvout?? How can I be sure that it was detected? Is there any way to force it to be the primary monitor ? Please fill a bug and include your xorg.conf and the debug file for displayconfig-gtk. It can be created using this command: displayconfig-gtk -w FILENAME Cheers, Sebastian -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: User Interface of the X Configuration Tool
Am Dienstag, den 29.05.2007, 18:54 -0700 schrieb Corey Burger: On 5/29/07, Sebastian Heinlein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Currently the dialog is separated into three tabs: - Display mode (allows to change the resolution, rate of each screen) - Dual head (allows to configure a dual screen setup) - Devices (allows to choose drivers and monitor models) I would have a single tab, with a window showing the montor(s) and the settings below that, ala the monitor tab in Windows. The monitor dialog in Windows uses even a sub dialog in which you can change the graphics card driver, monitor model or the refresh rate. Furthermore the Windows dialog does not fit on 640x480. So this approach does not seem to be not an option. One other thing that I would keep from the Window dialog is the ability to display a big 1 and 2 on the monitors, to make it clear which is which. I also thought about this feature. My old matrox config tool did this, but I haven't seen this on a default Windows system yet (also not having used Windows for quite some time). But it could be hard to identify the screens. Furthermore this would have to be done on a very low level. Otherwise it won't work on cloned screens. But I am not familiar with libxosd. Anybody who has already used xosd? Cheers, Sebastian -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Fwd: User Interface of the X Configuration Tool
Am Mittwoch, den 30.05.2007, 10:58 +0100 schrieb (``-_-´´) -- Fernando: From my short experience, the application worked great, but tended to break X after reboot... Oh. That's not nice. To be exactly this is the interesting part. If you only change the resolution or refresh rate we instantly apply them using xrandr. So the modifications to your xorg.conf will only show up on reboot or after relogin (if you used the recent version of displayconfig-gtk). It would be nice if you open bug reports. Will the new X 1.3 be more helpful with dual head??? The xserver 1.3? Not really from our point of view. See XRandR statements in my last post and on the wiki page. Does displayconfig-gtk also support SVideo output??? If the output can be managed using X yes. Cheers, Sebastian -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: User Interface of the X Configuration Tool
Am Dienstag, den 29.05.2007, 20:41 -0400 schrieb Adam Petaccia: On Tue, 2007-05-29 at 20:12 +0200, Sebastian Heinlein wrote: Hello Desktopers, [snip] You can get a recent feisty package of displayconfig-gtk here: http://glatzor.de/filesink/displayconfig-gtk_0.2 +20070523ubuntu2_i386.deb Is there a source package or AMD64 by any chance? Furthermore some older screenshots can be found on the Internet: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DisplayConfigGTK [ship] You can build the package yourself by checking out your branch (descibed in my intial email) and running the following command in the base directory: dpkg-build-package -us -uc -b -rfakeroot Cheers, Sebastian -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
User Interface of the X Configuration Tool
Hello Desktopers, the new and shiny GTK frontend to displayconfig (the x configuration part of the KDE admin suite named guidance) has got some usability issues. I would like to start a discussion about this to get your input and comments. Currently the dialog is separated into three tabs: - Display mode (allows to change the resolution, rate of each screen) - Dual head (allows to configure a dual screen setup) - Devices (allows to choose drivers and monitor models) You can get a recent feisty package of displayconfig-gtk here: http://glatzor.de/filesink/displayconfig-gtk_0.2 +20070523ubuntu2_i386.deb Furthermore some older screenshots can be found on the Internet: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DisplayConfigGTK The problem is that this layout behaves quite bad in the current use case: Setting up a new monitor for dual screen use. At first you have to go to the devices chooser and select another model, then back to the dual head tab and choose the right mode. Most times you will forget to go back to the first tab and change the resolution before clicking ok ang logging off and in. Furthermore it is quite hard to identify monitors on the first tab if you have got more than one graphics card. So the a solution could be to merge the display mode and devices tab to single tabs of which each would represent a single graphics card: http://glatzor.de/filesink/dcg-gfxbase.png If you want to the new/other user interface on your computer (displayconfig-gtk needs to be installed before): bzr branch http://glatzor.de/bzr/displayconfig-gtk/gfxbase/ cd gfxbase ./displayconfig-gtk --data-dir=data There is the objection that identifying screens by graphics cards is quite geeky, since most users only know of the screens that they see and not internal cards. Hopefully most systems would only have got one device. And the people that bought a second card for dual screen are used to the technical terms. If there would be only one device and one output the user would only get one device tab and the screen selector on the left would not show up. So the new interface could scale well. http://glatzor.de/filesink/gfxbase-single.png I am unsure if we should remove the dual head configuration tab at all or only make it insensitive in single screen mode. On the one hand users that connect a second screen later on another computer would know where to search for, but on the other hand users that perhaps for all time will only sit in front of one monitor will be bothered with more technical and complex issues. If the second tab is invisible we could even hide the borders of the notebook or perhaps exchanged them by a separator: http://glatzor.de/filesink/gfxbase-stripped-down.png Although I designed the dialog I am still a little bit confused by the multiple screens layout and I heard this from others too. This could be related to the screen selector. But improving it can be quite hard, since we are limited in space that can be used by the main window and therefor the screen selector: the dialog has to fit on a 640x480 screen. Currently the model name of the screen is available twice: one time in the selector and one time on the device/model chooser. Currently the device chooser label uses ellipsis and therefor does not consume too much space. It would be nice if would not to duplicate this text. Would using numbers for the outputs make more sense? Moving the selector to the top seems to get us into space troubles. By the way the driver name on the lowest selector will be replaced by a human readable and longer name in the future. In the near future I plan to add location/profiles support to the window. That would allow you to manage different X configurations and easily switch between e.g. your home and work setup. See this and the previous screenshot: http://glatzor.de/filesink/gfxbase-profiles.png I would be appreciate your input, comments and suggestions. Regards, Sebastian P.S.: To avoid any XRandR 1.2 questions: Primarily we will use the traditional approach by xorg.conf modifications. But we plan to implement an instant apply function using XRandR 1.2 as far as possible. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: An Ubuntu Firewall
Am Dienstag, den 13.03.2007, 18:17 +1300 schrieb Matthew Paul Thomas: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mar 11, 2007, at 6:42 PM, Randy Wallace wrote: ... I'm looking for an opinion from the community, particularly involving whether or not I should attempt to start this project. It would be a lot of work, and I don't want to do it in vain. ... Then your first step probably should be to complete one of the existing specifications for this feature, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Firewalls https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoC-Firewall or to write your own. Then get the specification approved for Ubuntu. https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu The average user should not be in such a situation in which he needs a firewall. We are an OpenSource project, so you can trust the software on your system. Furthermore there is the zero open port policy. Firewalls in Windows are one the things that make using the Internet no fun for not-technical people. Cheers, Sebastian signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: ubuntu-desktop Digest, Vol 19, Issue 7
Am Sonntag, den 21.01.2007, 21:29 + schrieb Ashley Hooper: -- Original message : Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 17:38:45 + (GMT) From: Ubuntu Newbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: runlevel? To: ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com I would like to change the default boot runlevel, so that the X server does not start automatically. I don't want it to start until the command startx is given. That's no problem! This is a very common practice for servers or people with old hardware and good skillz :-) This would make the entire screen a bash terminal at first, until the X server is started (If I remember correctly, this can be accomplished by changing the default runlevel in /etc/inittab to 3). That has traditionally been the way to change default runlevels with Unix-like systems, however if you're running Edgy Eft (6.10) things have changed a bit. From my probing it looks as if /etc/event.d/rc-default is hard-coded to use runlevel 2 if /etc/inittab does not exist (which of course it doesn't if you're running Edgy or Feisty). Furthermore, with modern Debian-based distros such as Ubuntu, the run-level scripts are (by default) set up for a fixed runlevel of 2, and changing it to 3 probably won't effect the change you want to see. So the easiest way to do what you want is probably to leave the default runlevel alone and instead just Debian and Ubuntu never made any difference between run level 2,3,4 and 5. Please discuss support topics on the corresponding lists. Cheers, Sebastian signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Help Menu Specification
Am Montag, den 15.01.2007, 23:38 + schrieb Matthew East: MPT and I have created the following spec: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpAndSupportAccess Feedback very welcome! I would also appreciate this approach! Nice that you at first point the user to the locally installed help and then if no solution could be found to the Internet based resources. Currently most users that ask questions in the forum or the mailing list haven't even searched the documentation. The GNOME documentation also includes a chapter about desktop basics (e.g. using windows). Would be nice to something for novice users too. Some very active local groups in Bavaria use Ubuntu to introduce elder people to the computer. There is already the icon on the panel. I think that it removes the need for a help top menu item. Cheers, Sebastian signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Installing GRUB in MBR
On Sa, 2006-12-30 at 15:00 +, Taiwo Fakoya wrote: I have three disk in my AMD processor PC, and one runs on winxp, win vista and ubuntu respectively. Both the winxp and ubuntu drive are ATA drive, while the later is and IDE drive. How do I load a GRUB to choose which OS in want to login to when I start my PC. Thanks in Advance Taiwo Sorry Taiwo for this formal rejection, but this is a list about the development of the Ubuntu desktop. If you have got any support questions you should go to the user list or the forums. Cheers and happy new year, Sebastian signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Installation suggestions
Am Mittwoch, den 25.10.2006, 20:59 -0400 schrieb Viper550: 't believe you didn't know about the build-essential package! Please watch your language. sudo apt-get install build-essential You could even remaster the CDs: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallCDCustomization https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization Cheers, Sebastian signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Finish vs. close
I also wrote to the GNOME usability list: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/usability/2006-September/msg00114.html signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Customizing Gnome-Panels
Am Montag, den 04.09.2006, 17:28 +0200 schrieb René Oelke: Hallo list. I am new here and this is my first message. So I hope, You can help me. I have created a customized gnome-panel layout for our desktop (only one bottom_panel ...). Detailed Information can be found in the attachment. This is an package with the needed files to install. Would be nice if you could provide a screenshot. My mom always told me: Do not install software from strangers :) Sebastian -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Investigate the needs of normal users
Am Freitag, den 25.08.2006, 22:31 +0200 schrieb Erik Jan Philippo: We should make a survey with a lot of questions like: what's the main purpose of your computer?, which other thinks do you like to do?, what is the biggest problem with your computer? etc We should brainstorm on it. If it's finished we make a website where people can answer them, off course multiple chose. We ask all the ubuntu users to gave it to their parents, family and neighbors. After it we have a lot of information about normal users. Maybe a lot of people like to see a photo manager which support easy e-mail functionality, generating html pages for the Internet, easy resize tools in it It's just an example. A lot of people are doing the same (mainstream) things on the computer. Making documents, have contact with friend, manage and edit photo's. Those tasks should be as easy as possible. The main reason why ubuntu is so popular is because it's easy. Just like win98 years ago. I am not sure if this is the best approach. The problem could be the language. How should a non geek express his needs correctly? Since I do small support stuff and computer training, I can say that you sometimes need quite a lot of empathy to understand which task a non geek wants to perform. Often they have vague ideas about how a computer works and you have to first find the root of their problem. A photo management application is an abstract concept and already part of the solution. Multiple choice questions only provide answers that you already knew before. If you introduce an untrained translator, the geek who tests and interviews his family, the results perhaps won't be as reliable as you would expect them. Sebastian -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: adding X to server
On Mo, 2006-07-31 at 14:25 -0400, JoE wrote: This is really only partially appropriate to us, but a friend of mine recently tried to add X to his server install of ubuntu. In the end, after much frustration, he added ubuntu-desktop because it was all that would work. I'm all for ubuntu desktops, of course, but I see no reason that you should have trouble adding X without all the ubuntu baggage if you want it (it IS linux, after all). Thoughts? apt-get install x-window-system-core Also, he was complaining about the uselessness of the documentation. We've been doing a lot of that lately as well. Those of you who are also on the server team, bear in mind that any improvements we make to our documentation need to be echoed in the text based server documentation to be truly useful. This issue should be discussed on ubuntu-doc or ubuntu-server and not ubuntu-desktop. Cheers, Sebastian -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: adding X to server
On Mo, 2006-07-31 at 14:25 -0400, JoE wrote: Also, he was complaining about the uselessness of the documentation. We've been doing a lot of that lately as well. Those of you who are also on the server team, bear in mind that any improvements we make to our documentation need to be echoed in the text based server documentation to be truly useful. By the way: do you know lynx, links or elinks? These are excellent text based browsers. It is no problem to read the wiki pages or documentations with them. Even the Server Guide at help.ubuntu.com. Cheers, Sebastian -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Restoring the Lock Screen menu item
Am Freitag, den 14.07.2006, 07:49 -0400 schrieb JoE: Is that an option somewhere in the setup? I didn't see it. I just checked. It certainly is not an email option I have, i think. The question belongs to ubuntu-users. Press Crtl+L in Evolution or choose Message-Reply to List (I hope that this is the correct English menu item - since I use a German desktop) Sebastian -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Restoring the Lock Screen menu item
Am Freitag, den 14.07.2006, 11:00 -0400 schrieb JoE: Not an option in Gmail. I'd think it would be a cake walk to include this in our group settings from the server we use, but I could be wrong. Evolution might do it by default, but gmail does not seem to. There are reasons why not to do so. Just search in the archives you are not the first one complaining about this :) But I am not the admin of this list. Mainly this is a problem of your mail client and not the list. You could write to google about his. At least, please do not use reply all, since I am subscribed to the list and I don't want to have a cluttered normal inbox. Regards, Sebastian -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Restoring the Lock Screen menu item
Am Freitag, den 14.07.2006, 15:22 -0400 schrieb JoE: Right. Back on topic now. And you origional posters will just have to suffer through double email duty for the time being while I reply to all. What an attitude! So you can be happy if anybody replies to this at all. I think, as I said, that the logout screen is ugly and cluttered. And I think that removing the lock screen item m ight help. I believe that people are in 2 cams here. 1) use daily and really like it. 2) never use it ever. I doubt there's too much middle ground. So would it be better to stick it into the applications menu or something? And allow for it to be readily added to the top panel? Perhaps include it as one of the first tiered panel options? that way people who never use it never have to see it or deal with it, people who use it once in a blue moon can use the menu, and people who use it all the time can go to the panel, add it, and just click it whenever they like. No. It is not an application and not related to applications. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: panel icons
Am Mittwoch, den 07.06.2006, 15:02 -0400 schrieb Andy Somerville: There is a work around for license restricted components: the Automatix script will install these components for those of use who can legally use it. You can also use gnome-app-install. Automatix isn't at a state where you could recommend to use it. Sebastian -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Logout dialog : strings
Am Dienstag, den 18.04.2006, 00:01 +0200 schrieb Manu Cornet: Hi ! It is common to skip the final dot in tooltips. I would also suggest this here. But the problem here is that some of the texts have several sentences :) So either you drop the final dot at the end of each label (weird : Hello everybody. And hello again), or really everywhere (even more weird : Hello everybody And hello again), or you add it just to the labels with 2+ sentences (still weird : some labels will end with a dot, some won't). I think the most logical solution is just to add final dots where they belong, at the end of sentences :) Cheers, Manu Ok, it is not the bible: http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/1.0/language.html#id2862813 -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Software Properties Proposal
Hi, I am currently working on update-manager, especially the Software Properties Dialog. Since I missed feature freeze, I would like to propose the inclusion of my efforts if the dapper release delays. You can see a screencast of the corresponding features here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RepositoryDialogRedesign?action=AttachFiledo=gettarget=demo-software-properties.gif My branch currently includes the following working new features: * Child channels that use the components of the parent (eg. dapper-security, dapper-updates, dapper-backports) See README.channel for details * Therefor automatic security updates for newly added Ubuntu components * Instant apply and a 'revert' button for changes on the sources.list * Drag'and'Drop and MimeType handling for sources.list files: You can drop a sources.list file on the channel list or double click on it. S-P shows a dialog with the included channels of the file that provides an add button * Sorting of the shown channels in the following order: - Ubuntu channels - channels with templates (Debian, third-party-channels could be added) - channels with comments - other channels Separators could be added. * Disable/enable channels * Clearer separation of the dialogs add and edit channel - we have got many complains about this issue in launchpad * Special edit dialog for channels with templates (at the moment Ubuntu and Debian channels) * Therefor easy way to add and remove components of Ubuntu channels in the edit dialog * Double click on a channel opens the edit dialog * Only one 'add channel' dialog for Ubuntu and custom channels * Sanity checks for custom channels - only allow to add well formatted apt lines * Use the LANG.archive.ubuntu.com mirror for newly added Ubuntu channels (the channel can be switched to the default server in the edit dialog easily) Things that need to be done: * Reselect the channel in the list after editing * Parse the channel specs for third-party-channels of gnome-app-install - at the moment you have to drop a CHANNEL.info file to /usr/share/update-manager/channel * And naturally a wider testing... My bzr branch: http://pimpzkru.dyndns.org/~sebi/devel/update-manager--sebi/ Regards, Sebastian (glatzor on IRC) -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Logout dialog
Am Mittwoch, den 15.02.2006, 15:19 +0100 schrieb Manu Cornet: People seem to like the logout dialog (the one you get by clicking, in dapper, on the top-right panel applet), and I had some good feedback about it. Is there still a need for this dialog? The thousand radio buttons logout dialog issue was resolved upstream. Furthermore the logout icon seems to be too large for my panel. It looks very clumsy and too dark here. Finally I would suggest to use the colors from the HIG icon palette for your icons to get a more consistent appearance with the default gnome icons. http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/2.0/design.html#Palette Regards, Sebastian -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
