Re: Does Ubuntu upload personal information by default and without permission now?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 John Rowland Lenton wrote on 12/10/11 21:08: On Wed, 12 Oct 2011 13:36:29 -0400, Jeremy Bicha jbi...@ubuntu.com ... (Drifting offtopic, would it make sense for the Music Store to be part of Software Center?) No. Ubuntu Software Center doesn't have a Play button, a scrub bar, track listings, or many of the other things a music store would need. Banshee has those things already, so you don't even need to learn a different interface. I hope that magazines are soon sold in a dedicated e-reader application rather than in USC, for similar reasons. And it would be super-nifty if someone implemented a font manager containing its own store, because that could do a much better job of previewing fonts than USC does. I suspect that some people complaining would also object to the Apps lens showing Apps Available for Download even though no information is being sent to the web there, just because of the extra clutter. And it's especially annoying to show those downloadable apps to users who don't have admin privileges. what do you mean? apps available for download *are* shown. Yes, that's the problem. It's bad enough that they're shown at all, when they are nearly always irrelevant. Showing them to people who can't install them is even worse. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk6XEecACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecpQEgCghhnWL1dN05Pp1v/59NK19kGJ eqsAoJbDuZC5hv/v3k2TXftuu0SHDiG7 =IEPX -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Does Ubuntu upload personal information by default and without permission now?
Le 11/10/2011 22:04, Matthew Paul Thomas a écrit : -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jo-Erlend Schinstad wrote on 11/10/11 12:43: ... I had difficulties believing this to be true, so I tested it. I searched for an artist of which I have no records, and sure enough, the music lense told me I could purchase it. I then disconnected from the network and searched again and this time, I got no advertisement. A very simple test that anyone can perform, and it indicated to me that the search was indeed being sent to some online service. Does this apply to all my searches? What else is being uploaded about me? I was just about to sniff my network to see for myself when I came to my senses... If people even get the impression that they are being monitored by their own system, then Ubuntu has certainly lost. Technologies like Zeitgeist are great, but they also mean it's more important than ever that absolutely no information is being transmitted without asking permission first and that user always knows what is being sent. The feeling of loosing that confidence was not a good one. ... Apple had an equivalent privacy problem with the iTunes MiniStore five years ago.http://boingboing.net/2006/01/11/itunes-update-spies.html They fixed it by (a) making it opt-in, and (b) explaining it inside iTunes itself.http://daringfireball.net/2006/01/itunes_ministore Which I think, under further guidance of the Design team, we could turn into a mode whereby results are only retrieved if the user unfolds the section containing suggestions. At the moment, search queries are passed to all scopes in advance, to let them retrieve results as fast as possible and provide feedback for the user as he keeps typing. That is the case for both scopes working on local content, as well as online ones. We can look into differentiating them for O+1 (now Precise). However I'm afraid that the only way to solve that particular privacy concern is to remove the scope altogether for now: apt-get remove --purge unity-scope-musicstores as also mentioned by Jason in this thread. Note however (and I think Mikkel mentioned it as well) that no queries are made if you search from the Home dash lens. If you hit SUPER and type your query, it won't go hit the Ubuntu One servers. Unity only makes queries to the Music store if you explicitly search into the Music lens itself. I hope this clarifies. David -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Does Ubuntu upload personal information by default and without permission now?
On Wed, 12 Oct 2011 13:36:29 -0400, Jeremy Bicha jbi...@ubuntu.com wrote: Alternatively, could the entire online store library be cached to user's computers? This should speed up search and there shouldn't be a privacy concern. It could be similar to what app-install-data does. But how much space would this data take? I'd love to, but it's updated weekly, and is several tens of gigabytes in size. (Drifting offtopic, would it make sense for the Music Store to be part of Software Center?) I suspect that some people complaining would also object to the Apps lens showing Apps Available for Download even though no information is being sent to the web there, just because of the extra clutter. And it's especially annoying to show those downloadable apps to users who don't have admin privileges. what do you mean? apps available for download *are* shown. pgpHmMNv41UxZ.pgp Description: PGP signature -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Does Ubuntu upload personal information by default and without permission now?
Den 12. okt. 2011 19:52, skrev David Barth: I don't know either. But I suspect that would take some previous space on the CD and then local install. Not to mention the need for very frequent updates. And an out-of-date database would be even worse, ie not returning any of the new music hits. I feel the online mode is the only one really making sense. Well, unlike software packages, released albums usually aren't updated, so only new albums would have to be downloaded. I don't think it would be useful to download all the song titles in the world just for the sake of privacy though. Most people wouldn't mind searching for music online, as long as they know they're doing it. But I do think the online search should be opt-in instead of opt-out. It's better to err on the side of caution in cases where privacy is at all an issue. Jo-Erlend Schinstad -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Does Ubuntu upload personal information by default and without permission now?
I was a little bit surprised to read that the Music Lense will actually send your searches to an online database by default and without asking any permission beforehand. In earlier versions of Ubuntu, things like popcon have not been activated by default and you've always been confident that there are no open ports and no data being transmitted unless you've asked for it. I had difficulties believing this to be true, so I tested it. I searched for an artist of which I have no records, and sure enough, the music lense told me I could purchase it. I then disconnected from the network and searched again and this time, I got no advertisement. A very simple test that anyone can perform, and it indicated to me that the search was indeed being sent to some online service. Does this apply to all my searches? What else is being uploaded about me? I was just about to sniff my network to see for myself when I came to my senses... If people even get the impression that they are being monitored by their own system, then Ubuntu has certainly lost. Technologies like Zeitgeist are great, but they also mean it's more important than ever that absolutely no information is being transmitted without asking permission first and that user always knows what is being sent. The feeling of loosing that confidence was not a good one. I think the advertisements in the lenses, whether it's for software or music, needs to be deactivated. Not only does it validate the notion that Ubuntu is free for a reason, just like GMail, but it might also cause users to loose confidence in their own privacy. It just isn't worth it. Jo-Erlend Schinstad -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Does Ubuntu upload personal information by default and without permission now?
Le 11/10/2011 13:43, Jo-Erlend Schinstad a écrit : I was a little bit surprised to read that the Music Lense will actually send your searches to an online database by default and without asking any permission beforehand. In earlier versions of Ubuntu, things like popcon have not been activated by default and you've always been confident that there are no open ports and no data being transmitted unless you've asked for it. I had difficulties believing this to be true, so I tested it. I searched for an artist of which I have no records, and sure enough, the music lense told me I could purchase it. I then disconnected from the network and searched again and this time, I got no advertisement. A very simple test that anyone can perform, and it indicated to me that the search was indeed being sent to some online service. Does this apply to all my searches? What else is being uploaded about me? I was just about to sniff my network to see for myself when I came to my senses... If people even get the impression that they are being monitored by their own system, then Ubuntu has certainly lost. Technologies like Zeitgeist are great, but they also mean it's more important than ever that absolutely no information is being transmitted without asking permission first and that user always knows what is being sent. The feeling of loosing that confidence was not a good one. I think the advertisements in the lenses, whether it's for software or music, needs to be deactivated. Not only does it validate the notion that Ubuntu is free for a reason, just like GMail, but it might also cause users to loose confidence in their own privacy. It just isn't worth it. Jo-Erlend Schinstad Hey Jo-Erland, Thanks for sharing your concern, however this is only for music searches, nothing personal to you is uploaded. It's the same than the automatic apt-get update which is done: there is a request with your ip to get the latest package list, so a connexion on the network you are maybe not aware of. This search is performed by the ubuntuone music scope from the music lens (unity-scope-musicstores) that you can remove independtly from the music lens. This is not at all advertisement, but just a way for people to find the same result that they can perform in banshee with the ubuntuone music store. Just note that you can basically have the same reaction when banshee is looking for a thumbnail of the currently listened albums and we heard no complain about it? I get your reaction is only because you perceive it as advertisement, which is not the case there? What can we do so that it's not perceived this way? Didier -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Does Ubuntu upload personal information by default and without permission now?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jo-Erlend Schinstad wrote on 11/10/11 12:43: ... I had difficulties believing this to be true, so I tested it. I searched for an artist of which I have no records, and sure enough, the music lense told me I could purchase it. I then disconnected from the network and searched again and this time, I got no advertisement. A very simple test that anyone can perform, and it indicated to me that the search was indeed being sent to some online service. Does this apply to all my searches? What else is being uploaded about me? I was just about to sniff my network to see for myself when I came to my senses... If people even get the impression that they are being monitored by their own system, then Ubuntu has certainly lost. Technologies like Zeitgeist are great, but they also mean it's more important than ever that absolutely no information is being transmitted without asking permission first and that user always knows what is being sent. The feeling of loosing that confidence was not a good one. ... Apple had an equivalent privacy problem with the iTunes MiniStore five years ago. http://boingboing.net/2006/01/11/itunes-update-spies.html They fixed it by (a) making it opt-in, and (b) explaining it inside iTunes itself. http://daringfireball.net/2006/01/itunes_ministore - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk6UoVIACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecrp/gCfUsHf1RmluqPv5rsiDe53FWDh 4QAAni1l/Ybbnfiuv4L2Xb2ukcTynpKd =dZGZ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
