Re: GIMP *final* release for Gutsy?
On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 16:48:55 -0700 Scott (angrykeyboarder) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gutsy shipped with a *non-final* release of The GIMP (2.4 RC3, to be specific). In situations of this type (my) logic would dictate that Gutsy would be updated (gutsy-updates?) with the Final version soon after it's release (rather than leave users with an unfinished product in main). As this has not been the case, I requested a sync from Debian Sid (sid currently has GIMP 2.4.1). My request was marked as a duplicate of the following: https://bugs.launchpad.net/baltix/+source/gimp/+bug/157642. The initial response to that bug was THank you for your bug report. I'm marking this as triaged. The bug was then quietly changed from Triaged to Wishlist(!). In my worst case scenario GIMP 2.4.x would eventually land in Gutsy backports. In my best case scenario it would (more logically) land in main and in the next week. It seems this has become a back burner bug. How might I get it back to the front burner and how might I get GIMP 2.4.x to land in a Gutsy updates or backports place within, say the next week? Please note: I'm not a developer. I'm not package maintainer. I'm just an ordinary user. As a rule, developers aren't terribly impressed by version numbers. What problem are you having that you think this would fix and that is severe enough to warrant a stable release update? Scott K -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Easier and more reliable ISO downloads, with error correction
John Richard Moser spake thusly on 218814416 :: OK, I had issues with bittorrent recently. Changing my tune. Whew! For a moment there you had me thinking you believe BitTorrent was the greatest thing since sliced bread... -- Scott http://angrykeyboarder.com I've never used an OS I didn't (dis)like. ©2007 angrykeyboarder™ Elmer Fudd. All Wites Wesewved -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
GIMP *final* release for Gutsy?
Gutsy shipped with a *non-final* release of The GIMP (2.4 RC3, to be specific). In situations of this type (my) logic would dictate that Gutsy would be updated (gutsy-updates?) with the Final version soon after it's release (rather than leave users with an unfinished product in main). As this has not been the case, I requested a sync from Debian Sid (sid currently has GIMP 2.4.1). My request was marked as a duplicate of the following: https://bugs.launchpad.net/baltix/+source/gimp/+bug/157642. The initial response to that bug was THank you for your bug report. I'm marking this as triaged. The bug was then quietly changed from Triaged to Wishlist(!). In my worst case scenario GIMP 2.4.x would eventually land in Gutsy backports. In my best case scenario it would (more logically) land in main and in the next week. It seems this has become a back burner bug. How might I get it back to the front burner and how might I get GIMP 2.4.x to land in a Gutsy updates or backports place within, say the next week? Please note: I'm not a developer. I'm not package maintainer. I'm just an ordinary user. Thank you. -- Scott http://angrykeyboarder.com I've never used an OS I didn't (dis)like. ©2007 angrykeyboarder™ Elmer Fudd. All Wites Wesewved -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Easier and more reliable ISO downloads, with error correction
Op dinsdag 06-11-2007 om 22:38 uur [tijdzone +], schreef Caroline Ford: They don't tell you they block it until you have it installed. Which means they broke the contract, and you don't have to stay with them for a year... -- Jan Claeys -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: A Wine-like compatibility layer to run Mac OS X programs on Linux?
On 11/9/07, Greg K Nicholson wrote: Is a compatibility layer (like Wine) to run Mac OS X programs on Linux feasible? Does one already exist? If you have a powerpc machine, the MacOnLinux (1) virtual layer may be useful for many applications (although using alternate virtual machines may be as convenient). If you have an x86 machine, there are a number of virtual machines that can be used for Intel OS X (with appropriate modifications) and the Basilisk II m68k emulator (2) does a reasonable job for older applications (through OS 8.1 or so). Separately, for some applications, the GNU OpenStep (3) implementation may provide source-level compatibility for some applications (some of the Cocoa API is included). I do not know of a current effort providing binary compatibility for applications that might be source compatible with GNUstep, although one is conceivable, assuming appropriate wrappers / implementations for various assumed system services (source for some of which are available from Darwin (4)). Anyhow, it'd be cool if we could say all OS X programs will Just Work™ on Ubuntu, too. I'd suggest that the project of implementing a full compatibility layer likely consists of many separate components, some ported from Darwin, some as new components, and some implemented with GNUstep. Given the scope, such an effort to provide a compatibility layer for Linux is probably best done as a separate upstream project, outside Ubuntu, with integration deferred until the system is somewhat stable, and demonstrably suitable for at least a limited set of test applications. To promote testing with Ubuntu, such a project might provide candidate Ubuntu packages in a separate repository, as a technology demonstration and basis for ongoing efforts. 1: http://mac-on-linux.sourceforge.net/ 2: http://basilisk.cebix.net/ 3: http://www.gnustep.org/ 4: http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/ -- Emmet HIKORY -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Windows Program Support
On Thursday 08 November 2007 20:15, Evan wrote: While this is not yet a major issue since the majority of users still choose Ubuntu expressly over Windows or Mac (and realize what they're getting into), there are several problems inherent with Ubuntu's growing popularity. One of these is that less technical users may purchase off-the-shelf software written for Win/Mac and expect it to run. While this is essentially their fault for not researching the system requirements of the software, Ubuntu could handle it far better than it currently does. At the moment it essentially ignores all Win/Mac binaries with an error that it could not open the file. This email is mainly to open up this topic for discussion, but the following is what I personally would like to see implemented for 8.10 (most of these changes are too large for LTS). When a binary is run, instead of giving the current error, provide a dialogue that notifies the user of the fact that it is a Windows program that cannot be run normally under Ubuntu. Then give the user two options: - list / install equivalent software for linux, the recommended option (via partnership with an organization like www.linuxalt.com or similar) - attempt to run it under wine (with caveat that it may not work) Once this works, from a security perspective you have to assume that the user will click yes when a random please install me pop-up appears. So once this works, Ubuntu will be vulnerable to many of the same security threats that Windows is (not that the machine can be fundamentally compromised, but that it can be turned into a useful bot). While I realize that wine is still highly unstable and incomplete, it is making progress, and it will now run the majority of programs which support win2k and earlier. Theoretically it should be starting to get better support for XP (which most new programs still support) by the 8.10 release, which will make it moderately useful. It won't run everything, but it will be considerably more useful than it has been in the past (largely in thanks to the slow Windows release cycle). In addition, Ubuntu should also add support for CD/DVD autorun. The majority of non-techy users will pop a CD in the drive and expect the installer to come up automatically. While most of them will be knowledgeable enough to browse the disk and find 'installer.exe' or 'setup.exe', this would be a nice feature to make Ubuntu even more user-friendly. Ideally, Ubuntu would be able to identify the program (using a file hash? out of my depth here), and automatically list equivilant programs, as well as that program's rating in the Wine AppDB, directly inside the dialogue. I imagine that this would be difficult, but I'm not sure, and it would be really great if possible. Again, this is mainly to open the subject up for discussion, so discuss away! My initial thought to the is please, please, no don't do this. I waited a couple of hours to reply and I haven't reconsidered. Once you make desirable Windows software easy to install, you've made all Windows software easy to install. It seems the most common goal in compromising machines these days is to use them as bots. Compromising a WINE install is sufficient for that. Running A/V is not a solution on Linux any more than it's consistently effective on Windows (every Windows box I've ever been asked to remove a virus from had a virus scanner installed). Windows software NOT working without actually being carefully installed is a feature and not a bug IMO. Scott K -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GIMP *final* release for Gutsy?
Scott Kitterman spake thusly : On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 16:48:55 -0700 Scott (angrykeyboarder) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gutsy shipped with a *non-final* release of The GIMP (2.4 RC3, to be specific). In situations of this type (my) logic would dictate that Gutsy would be updated (gutsy-updates?) with the Final version soon after it's release (rather than leave users with an unfinished product in main). As a rule, developers aren't terribly impressed by version numbers. What problem are you having that you think this would fix and that is severe enough to warrant a stable release update? None that would interest [some Ubuntu] developers, I suppose OK... Off to plan B. getdeb.net Oh wait, Ubuntu developers get upset when users go elsewhere for updated versions of software... OK.. Off to plan C. ? -- Scott http://angrykeyboarder.com I've never used an OS I didn't (dis)like. ©2007 angrykeyboarder™ Elmer Fudd. All Wites Wesewved -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GIMP *final* release for Gutsy?
On Thursday 08 November 2007 22:58, Scott (angrykeyboarder) wrote: Scott Kitterman spake thusly : On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 16:48:55 -0700 Scott (angrykeyboarder) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gutsy shipped with a *non-final* release of The GIMP (2.4 RC3, to be specific). In situations of this type (my) logic would dictate that Gutsy would be updated (gutsy-updates?) with the Final version soon after it's release (rather than leave users with an unfinished product in main). As a rule, developers aren't terribly impressed by version numbers. What problem are you having that you think this would fix and that is severe enough to warrant a stable release update? None that would interest [some Ubuntu] developers, I suppose OK... Off to plan B. getdeb.net Oh wait, Ubuntu developers get upset when users go elsewhere for updated versions of software... OK.. Off to plan C. If you want to install software simply because it has a different version number, you are clearly interested in different thngs than I am. You are quite welcome to risk breaking your system however you want. If it's been uploaded to Hardy (I haven't looked) it should be possible to backport it to gutsy-backports. My main concern is that if there are serious problems that are fixed in the later releases, we should fix them in gutsy-updates. Scott K -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GIMP *final* release for Gutsy?
Am Donnerstag, den 08.11.2007, 20:58 -0700 schrieb Scott (angrykeyboarder): None that would interest [some Ubuntu] developers, I suppose You should get used to talk about facts. To support your request you could for example write to the GIMP authors or contact them on IRC and ask if they would recommend an update. This would only cost a minute. Cheers, Sebastian signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Windows Program Support
Am Freitag, den 09.11.2007, 02:24 +0100 schrieb Sebastian Heinlein: Lots of your ideas have been discussed at the UDS last week. Furthermore you should consider that running Windows apps also opens the door to viruses and worms. Perhaps we could perform a ClamAV scan before running a Windows application? I created a prototype: http://www.glatzor.de/blog/blog-details/article/making-windows-applications-more-secure/ Furthermore the scan seems to be quite fast and not disrupting. signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: A Wine-like compatibility layer to run Mac OS X programs on Linux?
Am Freitag, den 09.11.2007, 11:12 +0900 schrieb Emmet Hikory: If you have a powerpc machine, the MacOnLinux (1) virtual layer may be useful for many applications (although using alternate virtual machines may be as convenient). If you have an x86 machine, there are a number of virtual machines that can be used for Intel OS X (with appropriate modifications) and the Basilisk II m68k emulator (2) does a reasonable job for older applications (through OS 8.1 or so). AFAIK you are not allowed to virtualize MacOS. signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GIMP *final* release for Gutsy?
On 11/9/07, Scott (angrykeyboarder) wrote: Scott Kitterman spake thusly : On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 16:48:55 -0700 Scott (angrykeyboarder) wrote: Gutsy shipped with a *non-final* release of The GIMP (2.4 RC3, to be specific). In situations of this type (my) logic would dictate that Gutsy would be updated (gutsy-updates?) with the Final version soon after it's release (rather than leave users with an unfinished product in main). As a rule, developers aren't terribly impressed by version numbers. What problem are you having that you think this would fix and that is severe enough to warrant a stable release update? None that would interest [some Ubuntu] developers, I suppose OK... It is important to understand the nature of the issue. Many of the bugfixes that are applied in upstream GIMP 2.4 final are also included in the current Ubuntu package (although the version number is different). If there is a specific bug that needs to be addressed, or a specific patch that should be applied, emphasis on this issue would spur resolution. If the only issue is the text of the version string, without behavioural impact, the developer time may be more beneficially applied to resolution of more significant bugs, or preparation of the next release. Off to plan B. getdeb.net Oh wait, Ubuntu developers get upset when users go elsewhere for updated versions of software... No so much upset, but that packages from external repositories cannot be supported (as the specifics of the packaging are not controlled by Ubuntu). It may be that the getdeb.net package is perfect, but it may also be that it is not. Off to plan C. ? https://launchpad.net/gutsy-backports/+filebug will be the solution, once available packaging for gimp 2.4.1 is adjusted to include existing Ubuntu changes. This effort is currently in queue for available developer time. This effort may be accelerated by investigation of the relevant Ubuntu variation, and the presentation of a patch for review by developers (although it may be slowed by interruption of the developers for repeated review of an incomplete patch). -- Emmet HIKORY -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GIMP *final* release for Gutsy?
Emmet Hikory spake thusly: On 11/9/07, Scott (angrykeyboarder) wrote: Scott Kitterman spake thusly : On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 16:48:55 -0700 Scott (angrykeyboarder) wrote: Gutsy shipped with a *non-final* release of The GIMP (2.4 RC3, to be specific). In situations of this type (my) logic would dictate that Gutsy would be updated (gutsy-updates?) with the Final version soon after it's release (rather than leave users with an unfinished product in main). As a rule, developers aren't terribly impressed by version numbers. What problem are you having that you think this would fix and that is severe enough to warrant a stable release update? None that would interest [some Ubuntu] developers, I suppose OK... It is important to understand the nature of the issue. Many of the bugfixes that are applied in upstream GIMP 2.4 final are also included in the current Ubuntu package (although the version number is different). This is to confuse us, correct? ;) If there is a specific bug that needs to be addressed, or a specific patch that should be applied, emphasis on this issue would spur resolution. *Of course* there are (were) bugs. Upstream stable is now a .1 release. https://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/lists/gimp-announce/2007-October/89.html If the only issue is the text of the version string, without behavioral impact, the developer time may be more beneficially applied to resolution of more significant bugs, or preparation of the next release. Off to plan B. getdeb.net Oh wait, Ubuntu developers get upset when users go elsewhere for updated versions of software... No so much upset, but that packages from external repositories cannot be supported (as the specifics of the packaging are not controlled by Ubuntu). It may be that the getdeb.net package is perfect, but it may also be that it is not. And my whole point is that if developers would start thinking more like users (especially the users the SABDFL strives to attract) getdeb.net wouldn't exist. For the record, I'm no fan of getdeb.net. In general, If Ubuntu isn't interested in providing me with the software I want or need, I go to prefer third party apt repositories. They tend to make for much smoother installs (comments on the getdeb.net page for GIMP 2.4.1 are a classic example of why). Off to plan C. ? https://launchpad.net/gutsy-backports/+filebug will be the solution, been there, done that. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gimp/+bug/157642/comments/6 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gimp/+bug/157642/comments/8 ... once available packaging for gimp 2.4.1 is adjusted to include existing Ubuntu changes. This effort is currently in queue for available developer time. This effort may be accelerated by investigation of the relevant Ubuntu variation, and the presentation of a patch for review by developers (although it may be slowed by interruption of the developers for repeated review of an incomplete patch). I see. I guess I must get over beta/rc stigma.. For some strange reason I'd rather have a final release of a program rather than a beta or a release candidate. I'm weird like that. -- Scott http://angrykeyboarder.com I've never used an OS I didn't (dis)like. ©2007 angrykeyboarder™ Elmer Fudd. All Wites Wesewved -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GIMP *final* release for Gutsy?
Christopher Halse Rogers spake thusly: On 11/9/07, Scott (angrykeyboarder) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... For some strange reason I'd rather have a final release of a program rather than a beta or a release candidate. I'm weird like that. Release candidates (especially later ones) tend to be nearly identical to the actual release (unless you're MPlayer, apparently). Often the release *is* the final release candidate, just with a version bump. I'm aware of this. It's often (but not always) true. All of this means that, yes, we'd like to see the bugs that are fixed in the new release over RC3, so we can weigh up the risk of breaking stuff against the benefits of the bug fixes. And the best way to notify the people who can do something about it is generally not on ubuntu-devel-discuss, but on launchpad in bug(s) against the gimp package. See the message that started this thread for details. -- Scott http://angrykeyboarder.com I've never used an OS I didn't (dis)like. ©2007 angrykeyboarder™ Elmer Fudd. All Wites Wesewved -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Windows Program Support
Evan spake thusly: less technical users may purchase off-the-shelf software written for Win/Mac and expect it to run [in Ubuntu]. Surely, you just... -- Scott http://angrykeyboarder.com I've never used an OS I didn't (dis)like. ©2007 angrykeyboarder™ Elmer Fudd. All Wites Wesewved -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
