Re: Appropriateness of posts to this list (Was Re: evince crash)
On Wednesday 05 December 2007 20:59, Andrew Pollock wrote: > On Dec 3, 2007 8:28 AM, Christofer C. Bell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > On Dec 2, 2007 3:10 PM, (``-_-´´) -- Fernando <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > wrote: > > > I agree that : > > > > > > On Tuesday 23 October 2007 05:25:56 Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: > > > > This causes people to make useless comments of the form "This bug has > > > > X > > > > > > votes, why is it only Medium importance!", which causes more e-mail > > > > notifications and slows down the developers further. > > > > > > but still this is a Comunity project, or is it not? > > > If what users and comunity desire is not the important for the > > > > "project", then what is? > > > > I think allowing the developers of the distribution, those who have a > > real stake in the success of the software in its entirety, to decide > > where to focus their efforts is superior to allowing the mob to decide > > what's important. I also think that using straw-man arguments to make > > your point is a mistake. > > I disagree. > > There needs to be some compromise between the developers and the mob, > presuming that the mob consists of end-users. The end-user decides how much > of a success the software is in its entirety. The developers need to keep > that in mind at all times. > For those of us who are volunteers (most of us), the compromise is someone has to convince me it's worth my time to bother. So I'd say the other way around. The users who want volunteers to actually do free work for them need to be convincing why I should be bothered (hint: threatening to switch back to Windows doesn't motivate me at all). I think this is useful reading for those trying to get developers interested in their problem: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html Scott K -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Appropriateness of posts to this list (Was Re: evince crash)
On 04/12/07 01:28, Christofer C. Bell wrote: > I think allowing the developers of the distribution, those who have a > real stake in the success of the software in its entirety, to decide > where to focus their efforts is superior to allowing the mob to decide > what's important. I also think that using straw-man arguments to make > your point is a mistake. The end-user has just as much stake in the success of the software in its entirety as a developer. Some may even argue that they have more stake in its success because ultimately they're using the distribution as a tool to get their job done. -- Onno Benschop Connected via Optus B3 at S31°54'06" - E115°50'39" (Yokine, WA) -- ()/)/)()..ASCII for Onno.. |>>?..EBCDIC for Onno.. --- -. -. --- ..Morse for Onno.. ITmaze - ABN: 56 178 057 063 - ph: 04 1219 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Appropriateness of posts to this list (Was Re: evince crash)
On Dec 3, 2007 8:28 AM, Christofer C. Bell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Dec 2, 2007 3:10 PM, (``-_-´´) -- Fernando <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > I agree that : > > On Tuesday 23 October 2007 05:25:56 Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: > > > This causes people to make useless comments of the form "This bug has > X > > > votes, why is it only Medium importance!", which causes more e-mail > > > notifications and slows down the developers further. > > > > but still this is a Comunity project, or is it not? > > If what users and comunity desire is not the important for the > "project", then what is? > > I think allowing the developers of the distribution, those who have a > real stake in the success of the software in its entirety, to decide > where to focus their efforts is superior to allowing the mob to decide > what's important. I also think that using straw-man arguments to make > your point is a mistake. I disagree. There needs to be some compromise between the developers and the mob, presuming that the mob consists of end-users. The end-user decides how much of a success the software is in its entirety. The developers need to keep that in mind at all times. regards Andrew -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Adobe Acrobat Reader Plugin
It looks like the general consensus is to leave things the way they currently are. I will pursue the creation of a mozilla-pdf plugin, but I won't ask for it to be default, just for inclusion in the repositories. Evan -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GParted installed by default?
On Tuesday 04 December 2007 10:59:17 Markus Hitter wrote: > Not including non-essential administration tools reduces confusion > and enhances user experience. BTW:, obviously, somebody decided disk > space is tight. Gutsy doesn't come with a working C compiler either, > which I'd consider far more essential than a graphical partition > editor (think about installing non-packaged software). > > > Markus Just a small note: GParted already comes on the CD. So it aint about Disk space. -- BUGabundo :o) (``-_-´´) http://Ubuntu.BUGabundo.net Linux user #443786GPG key 1024D/A1784EBB My new micro-blog @ http://BUGabundo.net signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Adobe Acrobat Reader Plugin
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday 02 December 2007 15:33:32 Evan wrote: > Daniel, I personally find it really useful, but I can't speak for everybody. > If everyone would please answer this impromptu poll: > >- Do you prefer online pdfs displayed in the browser (acrobat reader >style) or launched in a seperate dislpay (current Ubuntu style)? > > Evan Please dont put this on default on the K/Ubuntu browsers. I usually disable this on the windows browsers, and I rather like to have them open outside via evince or any other PDF reader. - -- BUGabundo :o) (``-_-´´) http://Ubuntu.BUGabundo.net Linux user #443786GPG key 1024D/A1784EBB My new micro-blog @ http://BUGabundo.net -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHVfyiY5ijS6F4TrsRAhk7AKCYg8XjIkHIRuAB7dw5Fs85VPXcKQCgj2Cc qjOUwh06Aq5LJox5DiAjL94= =ehhB -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: RFC: Thunderbird, mail.prompt_purge_threshhold=true
Alexander Sack wrote the following on 05.12.2007 00:30 > From what I know, thunderbird compacts folders automatically for some > time now. It might however be the case that old profiles still rely on > manual compacting. > > Are you sure that new profiles are not getting cleaned up > automatically? > > - Alexander http://kb.mozillazine.org/Compacting_folders#How_to_compact_folders <- The difference is that most other email clients by default automatically compact the folder when a certain amount of space is wasted, whereas this has to be activated by the user in Thunderbird. -> -- Thilo key: 0x4A411E09 -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: RFC: Thunderbird, mail.prompt_purge_threshhold=true
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=406848 > > i could create a launchpad bug, too. If that´s desired. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/174207 -- Thilo key: 0x4A411E09 -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: RFC: Thunderbird, mail.prompt_purge_threshhold=true
Alexander Sack wrote the following on 05.12.2007 00:30
>
>
>> > Are you sure that new profiles are not getting cleaned up
>> > automatically?
>> >
>> > - Alexander
>
> actually i am not sure about newly created profiles.
> I will check that out and report back here.
preconditions:
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
$ lsb_release -a
No LSB modules are available.
Distributor ID: Kubuntu
Description:Kubuntu 7.10
Release:7.10
Codename: gutsy
$ LANG=C apt-cache policy thunderbird
thunderbird:
Installed: 2.0.0.8~pre071022+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.7.10
Candidate: 2.0.0.8~pre071022+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.7.10
Version table:
*** 2.0.0.8~pre071022+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.7.10 0
enigmail:
Installed: 2:0.95.0-0ubuntu4
Candidate: 2:0.95.0-0ubuntu4
Version table:
*** 2:0.95.0-0ubuntu4 0
$ alias dum
alias dum='du --max-depth=1 -k | sort -n'
* using german localisation
* using POP3 with own folders for each account
(non global incomming)
* keep copies of mails on server
* each time when opend TB, searched for new mail and clicked on the available
folders
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
$ cd ~/.mozilla-thunderbird/pg1dsk50.default/
newly created profile:
$ dum
4 ./extensions
12 ./US
76 ./Mail
3496.
test e-mail with atachment to self:
$ dum
4 ./extensions
12 ./US
15576 ./Mail
17368 .
thunderbird restarted
mails in thunderbird deleted and closed:
$ dum
4 ./extensions
12 ./US
15576 ./Mail
18736 .
thunderbird restarted - mails not visible in thunderbird:
$ dum
4 ./extensions
12 ./US
15576 ./Mail
18736 .
repeated last step, to be sure - same size
edit > config > additional > network & disc space > click "compress folder if
it saves more than 100 KB"
(translated from german)
retrived mails, clicked on all folders (no dialog appeared), closed TB
$ dum
4 ./extensions
12 ./US
15576 ./Mail
18768 .
started TB - retrived mails, clicked on all folders (no dialog appeared),
closed TB
$ dum
4 ./extensions
12 ./US
15576 ./Mail
18768 .
$ grep purge prefs.js
user_pref("mail.prompt_purge_threshhold", true);
--
started TB - retrived mails, clicked on all folders ( no dialog appeared)
file > compact all folders, closed TB
$ dum
4 ./extensions
12 ./US
76 ./Mail
3268.
--
HTH
--
Thilo
key: 0x4A411E09
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Re: RFC: Thunderbird, mail.prompt_purge_threshhold=true
Alexander Sack wrote the following on 05.12.2007 00:30 > Are you sure that new profiles are not getting cleaned up > automatically? > > - Alexander actually i am not sure about newly created profiles. I will check that out and report back here. -- Thilo key: 0x4A411E09 -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: RFC: Thunderbird, mail.prompt_purge_threshhold=true
Jan Claeys wrote the following on 05.12.2007 01:09 > Op dinsdag 04-12-2007 om 21:46 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Thilo Six: >> 2 gig is approximately where we come to filesystem limitations (max >> size per file) > > Actually, the (default) filesystem file size limit is at 2 TiB instead > of 2 GiB, and that should be enough... ;) hmm well somehow i knew that argument would come. ;) OK if not for the max file size then use "for performance" as a proper argument in replace. -- Thilo key: 0x4A411E09 -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: RFC: Thunderbird, mail.prompt_purge_threshhold=true
Thilo Six wrote the following on 04.12.2007 21:46 > I have searched bugzilla.mozilla.org for bugs like that and coulnd´t find > one. Also on launchpad is no similar bug report it seems. > > So i would like to know is it feasible to solve that somehow? > > > TIA just forgot. In the meantime i have reported it as bug at: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=406848 i could create a launchpad bug, too. If that´s desired. -- Thilo key: 0x4A411E09 -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Boot with a degraded raid 5
Ben Ben wrote: > What is a known issue ? Running a degraded raid 5 at boot is not possible ? Known issue that by default, the system will not try to activate the array in a degraded state. > All these test have been done with all 3 disks up, and with --run > option for mdadm in /etc/udev/rules.d/85-mdadm.rules. > You can see that md0 is never ran, and md1 (raid0) is sometime ran, > sometimes not. > Here, if I stop and launch manually the md, it works. > > If I give the option --no-degraded to mdadm, it work always (if the > array is not degraded). Simply removing the --no-degraded option should do the trick. > Another question : you said I can run the array manually and launch > back the boot process. How can I do this last point ? running /init ? IIRC, simply exiting from the busybox shell will cause the boot process to attempt to continue, so after you manually assemble the array, just exit. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Kickseed, Kickstart, Preseed
On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 08:43:34PM -0800, MJang wrote: > Folks, > > Wondering where Ubuntu is going w/r/t automated installations. I see > bits on Kickseed, but nothing in Gutsy. I see per > https://launchpad.net/kickseed/ that it was in Feisty. > > Perhaps the focus is on Kickstart or Preseed? Both are supported, though Kickstart/Kickseed is a simpler way to get started and is recommended for most use cases. -- - mdz -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Boot with a degraded raid 5
Hi Philip. Thank you so much for taking time to answer me, I feel less
alone now :)
2007/12/4, Phillip Susi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> ben.div wrote:
> > Woh ! Absolutely nobody can help me on this question ? I've already
> > asked about this on 4-5 lists or forums, and I've cumulated : 0 answer.
> > Where could I find help on this subject ? The kernel team ? Who has
> > developped this part (boot on initramfs and device detection) ?
> >
> > I'm stucked on that problem since 2 weeks. Please, help :)
>
> Known issue... though I can't seem to find the bug # now.
>
What is a known issue ? Running a degraded raid 5 at boot is not possible ?
> > Ben Ben a écrit :
> >> So here, I suspected that the wrong option was passed to mdadm in
> >> initramfs, and tell it to not to run a degraded array.
> >> I've found (with grep on initrams content) that the file
> >> /etc/udev/rules.d/85-mdadm.rules contains this line :
> >>
> >> SUBSYSTEM=="block", ACTION=="add|change", ENV{ID_FS_TYPE}=="linux_raid*", \
> >> RUN+="watershed /sbin/mdadm --assemble --scan --no-degraded"
> >>
> >> I guess it's the boot parameter for mdadm ! So, I changed it, made a new
> >> initramfs, reboot with only 2 disks and... nothing more, it doesn't
> >> start anymore :/
>
> Not sure what's going wrong without any description other than "it
> doesn't start anymore", but that should allow you to boot in a degraded
> array.
>
It does the same thing I describe before : initramfs loads, md driver
try to run array but can't, so it hangs around 3 minutes and give me
the hand in the initramfs console.
Here's outputs of cat /proc/mdstat at this stade. I gave many try
(reboot), as the output is not always the same :
$ cat /proc/mdstat
Personalities : [raid0] [raid6] [raid5] [raid4] [linear] [multipath]
[raid1] [raid10]
md1 : active raid0 sda5[0] sdb5[1]
78164032 blocks 64k chunks
md0 : inactive hda3[0]
116141824 blocks
unused devices:
$ cat /proc/mdstat # with kernel 2.6.22.14 md drivers compiled inside
kernel (not as module)
Personalities : [linear] [raid0] [raid1] [raid10] [raid6] [raid5]
[raid4] [multipath] [faulty]
md1 : inactive sdb5[1]
39102080 blocks
md0 : inactive hda3[0]
116141824 blocks
unused devices:
$ cat /proc/mdstat
Personalities : [raid0] [raid6] [raid5] [raid4] [linear] [multipath]
[raid1] [raid10]
md1 : active raid0 sda5[0] sdb5[1]
78164032 blocks 64k chunks
md0 : inactive hda3[0]
116141824 blocks
unused devices:
$ cat /proc/mdstat
Personalities : [raid0] [raid6] [raid5] [raid4] [linear] [multipath]
[raid1] [raid10]
md1 : inactive sdb5[1]
39102080 blocks
md0 : inactive hda3[0]
116141824 blocks
unused devices:
All these test have been done with all 3 disks up, and with --run
option for mdadm in /etc/udev/rules.d/85-mdadm.rules.
You can see that md0 is never ran, and md1 (raid0) is sometime ran,
sometimes not.
Here, if I stop and launch manually the md, it works.
If I give the option --no-degraded to mdadm, it work always (if the
array is not degraded).
> >> So, after this long story (sorry), my questions :
> >>
> >> Do you think I'm totally lost, or editing this file is the good way ?
> >> Is there a good reason why ubuntu's dev chose this "--no-degraded"
> >> option for mdadm by default ?
> >> What can I do more ??
>
> The reason is because we don't want to degrade an array just because one
> of the disks has not been detected yet. The proper solution is to wait
> for either a timeout or manual intervention to go ahead and mount the
> array degraded.
>
Why does the --run option never work, but --no-degraded work, even if
the raid array is not degraded ?
It seems like you suggest to be a "disk not detected yet" problem. How
could I workaround this ? Maybe a "sleep 10" before launching mdadm ?
But why are the disk detected for md1 (raid1), but not for md0
(raid0), while it use the same devices (sda, sdb for md1, hda, sda,
sdb for md0) ?
Maybe it's a udev syntax problem (I didn't take time to study it) ?
Another question : you said I can run the array manually and launch
back the boot process. How can I do this last point ? running /init ?
Thank you !
Ben
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