Re: Fake login screens
However, it seems to me that nobody is getting the point about fake login screens: if I am an *user* of somebody else's network, how can I protect myself from another *user* faking a login screen, used as the only running X application, and stealing my password? You have evidence that such scenario could happen or even is happened? Or you just speculate? Anything can be faked in this world, specially on computers. The first step of an exploit is thinking about how to technically exploit. The OP also mentioned that he is in the process of writing such an exploit. Under some windows versions, I can use ctrl+alt+delete. I bet the mac has something similar, Nope, it doesn't (as far as I know, and I have worked with OS X as sysadmin for five years). And Windows Ctrl+Alt+Delete have absolutely different meaning than anti-faking measure. When logging into a Windows network, the user is requested to press CAD before entering his username:password. The help text clearly states that this is to prevent spoofed login screens. Well, unexperienced system administrator would allow box to contain trojan to get your password anyway. So because there is another attack vector, you are of the opinion that leaving this attack vector open is acceptable? Believe me, faking login screens is not a way someone would steal your password, unless there is no other way. Ideally, there would be no other way. I will surely write my own fake gdm as an exercise just in case I become an user of such an admin :) Because of statistics, you know, if I carry a bomb there can't be another bomb on my plane. Strawman argument. No, it's not, it is plausible and these cases for making a point are common. Read ./ :) If the solution is currently, ubuntu jaunty is vulnerable to this problem, let's just admit it and make it public in the release notes at least. So that people will know and avoid leaving the default configuration on clients. No, Jaunty simply won't have C-A-B feature enabled by default. Simple as that. Release notes doesn't have such speculation as OMG, visual interface have changed, someone could use it to steal information from people. This is a basic system event that has changed, a system event that has security and usability implications. Furthermore, this deviates from the behaviour of every other major Linux distro, and from the behaviour of Ubuntu itself in previous versions. Personally I would love that the power button returned to gdm, and that gdm created a new X session (like for the guest login use case) for every login, without disappearing, and occupying a fixed tty (the one the power button would return to). In that case, gdm could also offer a pre-loaded and not-swappable emergency shell that administrator may access. However, this *really* needs a blueprint so for now is there any other solution? Yes, this *really* need blueprint just for a reason - it is how world-shattering changes are introduced into Ubuntu. Disabling C-A-B by default was blueprint for two years. This is how decision making happens. Don't get me wrong - I know that changing features is painful process of some of us, but as far as I have experienced with Ubuntu, it is always pays back in long term. Introduction of compiz broken a lot of setups, but Hardy released with nice desktop effects tested for some time. NetworkManager 0.7 was introduced as main network configuration tool. Sure, I was annoyed, even angry. But I took time to test it and understand it and now I admit that it is a future. There is a blueprint already for dealing with C-A-B without disabling it and I hope it will find a way into Jaunty+1. And that is how system should work. In my opinion distros such as Fedora, that call themselves bleeding edge, should be reserved for the revolutionary introduction of new / differing technologies. Ubuntu is a stable distro designed for everyday usage. Even if the bleeding edge had been introduced in Ubuntu in the past (Compiz is a terrific example), that is no argument for changing basic system behaviour. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ا-ب-ت-ث-ج-ح-خ-د-ذ-ر-ز-س-ش-ص-ض-ط-ظ-ع-غ-ف-ق-ك-ل-م-ن-ه-و-ي А-Б-В-Г-Д-Е-Ё-Ж-З-И-Й-К-Л-М-Н-О-П-Р-С-Т-У-Ф-Х-Ц-Ч-Ш-Щ-Ъ-Ы-Ь-Э-Ю-Я а-б-в-г-д-е-ё-ж-з-и-й-к-л-м-н-о-п-р-с-т-у-ф-х-ц-ч-ш-щ-ъ-ы-ь-э-ю-я ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Fake login screens
On Sunday 15 February 2009 3:12:32 am Dotan Cohen wrote: No, Jaunty simply won't have C-A-B feature enabled by default. Simple as that. Release notes doesn't have such speculation as OMG, visual interface have changed, someone could use it to steal information from people. This is a basic system event that has changed, a system event that has security and usability implications. Furthermore, this deviates from the behaviour of every other major Linux distro, and from the behaviour of Ubuntu itself in previous versions. False. This is an upstream change. Fedora is doing the same thing we are. -- Mackenzie Morgan http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com apt-get moo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Alt-SysReq-K in some cases nonfunctional.
Dane, Please see my bug-report on launchpad filed as https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/329644 Additionally, Could someone please explain to me what REISUB is? I have never heard this term before, and as I said before, I am a programmer by trade, with better than just basic knowledge about operating systems and such, so I am a bit thrown off. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Alt-SysReq-K in some cases nonfunctional.
2009/2/15 Mike Jones eternal...@gmail.com: Could someone please explain to me what REISUB is? I have never heard this term before, and as I said before, I am a programmer by trade, with better than just basic knowledge about operating systems and such, so I am a bit thrown off. It's the sequence of letters you type whilst holding down Alt+SysRq to gracefully reboot the system (after doing nice things like syncing the disks). Cheers, Al. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Fake login screens
This is a basic system event that has changed, a system event that has security and usability implications. Furthermore, this deviates from the behaviour of every other major Linux distro, and from the behaviour of Ubuntu itself in previous versions. False. This is an upstream change. Fedora is doing the same thing we are. I said major Linux distros! :) Seriously, though, while in general I am indifferent to the change itself as I will be able to enable CAB for myself, I am of the opinion that the change needs to be highlighted. Fedora should make it obvious as well. This is the type of feature that people rely on when they need it the most, and they need to know that it has been disabled _before_ they need it. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ا-ب-ت-ث-ج-ح-خ-د-ذ-ر-ز-س-ش-ص-ض-ط-ظ-ع-غ-ف-ق-ك-ل-م-ن-ه-و-ي А-Б-В-Г-Д-Е-Ё-Ж-З-И-Й-К-Л-М-Н-О-П-Р-С-Т-У-Ф-Х-Ц-Ч-Ш-Щ-Ъ-Ы-Ь-Э-Ю-Я а-б-в-г-д-е-ё-ж-з-и-й-к-л-м-н-о-п-р-с-т-у-ф-х-ц-ч-ш-щ-ъ-ы-ь-э-ю-я ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: CAB loss, fake logins etc
2009/2/15 Alex Cockell alcock...@eclipse.co.uk: Umm -please forgive me, but you mention that removing the Ctrl-Alt-Backspace three-key-salute was proposed for removal two years ago... Has this been made absolutely clear to preinstall manufacturers in time for them to print new manuals? This discussion is about disabling CAB in a _future_ release of Ubuntu such as the upcoming Jaunty (to be 9.04). As far as I am aware all system integrators currently install existing supported released versions of Ubuntu, not the unreleased development version. When they switch to the new version (after release) then surely they need to put in some effort to update their documentation in various areas, possibly including this one. My laptop has been set up by my vendor to accept mainstream updates, but only offer Major Stable OS upgrades (I believe this is the intention of LTS releases?) I believe the next one is 9.10, correct? You didn't mention which version of Ubuntu you are currently on. If it's 8.04 (which is an LTS release) then by default you are right, you wont get prompted for a release upgrade until the next LTS release which as I understand it will be 10.04 at the earliest. Cheers, Al. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Fake login screens
On 14/02/2009 Thomas Jaeger wrote: C-A-B offers no protection against this attack, as users can easily remap keys. If you don't believe me, run xmodmap -e 'keycode 22 = ' Therefore, I was completely wrong along the last 10 years (and fancy how many passwords I gave as a gift to my colleagues). Apologises again to everybody. V. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Fake login screens
On 15/02/2009 Mackenzie Morgan wrote: the kernel *does* intercept Alt+SysRq+K as pointed out a billion times already. Seriously, we have a userspace and a kernelspace way around this one. This is obviously not working from X11, so it seems like we don't have a secure access key under the ubuntu GUI. I thought we had one! I see the point that the keyboard may be completely remapped, I just tried with the Fn keys and obviously I can't switch to a VT anymore. V. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Alt-SysReq-K in some cases nonfunctional.
Mike Jones wrote: Additionally, Could someone please explain to me what REISUB is? I have never heard this term before, and as I said before, I am a programmer by trade, with better than just basic knowledge about operating systems and such, so I am a bit thrown off. Each letter represents a separate command: http://kember.net/articles/231/reisub-the-gentle-linux-restart For details, open up the Linux kernel source and look at the file: Documentation/sysrq.txt ( for example you can use this URL: http://lxr.linux.no/linux+v2.6.28.5/Documentation/sysrq.txt ) Martin -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: [RFC] apturl repository whitelist application process
Olá Alexander e a todos. On Friday 13 February 2009 11:16:39 Alexander Sack wrote: Some repos will want to replace system packages (eg medibuntu)...this seems incompatible with these requirements. I am not sure what medibuntu does. Is that a derivate? Its a 3rd party repo with license problematic apps. stuff like google earth, skype, codecs, etc -- Hi, I'm BUGabundo, and I am Ubuntu (whyubuntu.com) (``-_-´´) http://LinuxNoDEI.BUGabundo.net Linux user #443786GPG key 1024D/A1784EBB My new micro-blog @ http://BUGabundo.net signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Is disabling ctrl-alt-backspace really such a good idea? - no.
Olá John e a todos. On Friday 13 February 2009 02:08:35 John Moser wrote: (read: Firefox RELOADS the tab it was in, it doesn't come back up into the exact same state it shut down in! This sucks!) Give TabMix Plus (session saver feature) Firefox addon a try. it restores everything to me, even current position in a page. Also there's Text Area addon, that can restore any text form. -- Hi, I'm BUGabundo, and I am Ubuntu (whyubuntu.com) (``-_-´´) http://LinuxNoDEI.BUGabundo.net Linux user #443786GPG key 1024D/A1784EBB My new micro-blog @ http://BUGabundo.net ps. My emails tend to sound authority and aggressive. I'm sorry in advance. I'll try to be more assertive as time goes by... signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Fwd: Is disabling ctrl-alt-backspace really such a good idea? - no.
Olá Matthew e a todos. On Friday 13 February 2009 18:27:06 Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: I have no doubt that it could be solved if people put their minds to it. System Monitor (or a process-specific buset) could reduce the priority of your other programs whenever it is running, be special-cased by the window manager to ensure other windows can't hide it, and so on. There's AND: Description: Auto Nice Daemon The auto nice daemon activates itself in certain intervals and renices jobs according to their priority and CPU usage. Jobs owned by root are left alone. Jobs are never increased in their priority. . The renice intervals can be adjusted as well as the default nice level and the activation intervals. A priority database stores user/group/job tuples along with their renice values for three CPU usage time ranges. Negative nice levels are interpreted as signals to be sent to a process, triggered by CPU usage; this way, Netscapes going berserk can be killed automatically. The strategy for searching the priority database can be configured. . AND also provides network-wide configuration files with host-specific sections, as well as wildcard/regexp support for commands in the priority database. -- Hi, I'm BUGabundo, and I am Ubuntu (whyubuntu.com) (``-_-´´) http://LinuxNoDEI.BUGabundo.net Linux user #443786GPG key 1024D/A1784EBB My new micro-blog @ http://BUGabundo.net ps. My emails tend to sound authority and aggressive. I'm sorry in advance. I'll try to be more assertive as time goes by... signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: improving compiled modules of kernel - per-user (was Reasons Why Jaunty Will Not Ship With 2.6.29)
hi, On Do, 2009-02-12 at 14:48 +, Scott James Remnant wrote: I'd do something like: - iterate /sys, looking for the devices - track to their drivers (either by looking at what's loaded, or comparing modalias to MODULE_DEVICE_TABLE) isnt that what MODULES=dep in /etc/initramfs.conf does already ? you would only need the - figure out the CONFIG entry - spit out a config parts actually imho ... ciao oli signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Fake login screens
On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 2:22 PM, Matthew Garrett mj...@srcf.ucam.org wrote: Arguing that something's a security feature without checking that it's actually a security feature isn't a good plan. Obviously. But I do think this is a security issue that needs to be solved. Let's forget the whole C-A-B discussion. We need an unmappable key sequence which only the kernel captures. Maybe C-A-D could be promoted to that? Someone on this list said that the Windows kernel intercepts this key sequence and then tells the login screen that it has been pressed. If there is no login screen, it will just open the Task Manager. Whichever keys are chosen, it would be as an instruction in the login screen: Please press keys before logging in. Maybe in an information bubble it could explain how this prevents password theft, and that you should be suspicious if the instruction isn't there the next time. Remco -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
RE: improving compiled modules of kernel - per-user (was Reasons Why Jaunty Will Not Ship With 2.6.29)
-Original Message- hi, On Do, 2009-02-12 at 14:48 +, Scott James Remnant wrote: I'd do something like: - iterate /sys, looking for the devices - track to their drivers (either by looking at what's loaded, or comparing modalias to MODULE_DEVICE_TABLE) isnt that what MODULES=dep in /etc/initramfs.conf does already ? you would only need the - figure out the CONFIG entry - spit out a config parts actually imho ... I was thinking about this lately myself and started a little work on a bash script that retrieves a list of currently used modules and drivers (using lspci) and looks up the corresponding .config entry in the kernel source Makefiles. Here is what I've got so far: for mod in `((lspci -v | grep -i Kernel driver in use: | cut -b 24-) (lspci -v | grep -i Kernel modules: | cut -b 18-)) | sort -u` ; do echo `grep $mod $(find -name Makefile) | grep -v debian | sed s/.*obj-\$\(// | sed s/\).*// | grep CONFIG` done Cheers, Stefan -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Is disabling ctrl-alt-backspace really such a good idea? - no.
Re: SysRQ not working. Try it in a virtual terminal and see if that works (something harmless, like Alt SysRQ M). For starters, the SysRQ / Print Screen key becomes SysRQ when Alt is being pressed. If you change the GNOME keyboard settings you could find different results. Is it possible that whether userspace is using the Alt Printscreen key combination impacts whether the kernel does the Magic SysRQ stuff? Thanks, -Dylan -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Subject: Alt-SysReq-K in some cases nonfunctional
From: Mike Jones eternal...@gmail.com Subject: Alt-SysReq-K in some cases nonfunctional. To: ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com, dmutt...@gmail.com Message-ID: e0512b330902150051l41d272cek3400369c29ba6...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Dane, Please see my bug-report on launchpad filed as https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/329644 Additionally, Could someone please explain to me what REISUB is? I have never heard this term before, and as I said before, I am a programmer by trade, with better than just basic knowledge about operating systems and such, so I am a bit thrown off. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key It does work but doesn't necessarily do anything obvious until the shutdown or reboot key is pressed. If you are connecting with a serial console (not just SSH) from a different system then the messages are displayed. However, not all systems shut down or reboot depending on the type of fault or BIOS/ACPI bugs. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: improving compiled modules of kernel - per-user
Olá Stefan e a todos. On Sunday 15 February 2009 15:56:32 Stefan Hamminga wrote: Here is what I've got so far: for mod in `((lspci -v | grep -i Kernel driver in use: | cut -b 24-) (lspci -v | grep -i Kernel modules: | cut -b 18-)) | sort -u` ; do echo `grep $mod $(find -name Makefile) | grep -v debian | sed s/.*obj-\$\(// | sed s/\).*// | grep CONFIG` done Running this here just outputs a bunch of empty lines -- Hi, I'm BUGabundo, and I am Ubuntu (whyubuntu.com) (``-_-´´) http://LinuxNoDEI.BUGabundo.net Linux user #443786GPG key 1024D/A1784EBB My new micro-blog @ http://BUGabundo.net ps. My emails tend to sound authority and aggressive. I'm sorry in advance. I'll try to be more assertive as time goes by... signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
RE: improving compiled modules of kernel - per-user
-Original Message- Olá Stefan e a todos. On Sunday 15 February 2009 15:56:32 Stefan Hamminga wrote: Here is what I've got so far: for mod in `((lspci -v | grep -i Kernel driver in use: | cut -b 24-) (lspci -v | grep -i Kernel modules: | cut -b 18-)) | sort -u` ; do echo `grep $mod $(find -name Makefile) | grep -v debian | sed s/.*obj-\$\(// | sed s/\).*// | grep CONFIG` done Running this here just outputs a bunch of empty lines Ahh, I see, sorry, I forgot to include that this needs to be run in the kernel source root (eg. /usr/src/linux-2.6/), hadn't gotten to creating a 'prettier' version. The for loop searches every Makefile in the tree to get the corresponding CONFIG_ option for a loaded module. Stefan -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Is disabling ctrl-alt-backspace really such a good idea? - no.
On Sunday 15 February 2009 12:24:32 pm Dylan McCall wrote: Re: SysRQ not working. Try it in a virtual terminal and see if that works (something harmless, like Alt SysRQ M). For starters, the SysRQ / Print Screen key becomes SysRQ when Alt is being pressed. Don't you mean when Fn is being pressed? Laptop users usually have to hit Alt+Fn+SysRq+letter -- Mackenzie Morgan http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com apt-get moo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Is disabling ctrl-alt-backspace really such a good idea? - no.
On Sun, 2009-02-15 at 15:50 -0500, Mackenzie Morgan wrote: On Sunday 15 February 2009 12:24:32 pm Dylan McCall wrote: Re: SysRQ not working. Try it in a virtual terminal and see if that works (something harmless, like Alt SysRQ M). For starters, the SysRQ / Print Screen key becomes SysRQ when Alt is being pressed. Don't you mean when Fn is being pressed? Laptop users usually have to hit Alt+Fn+SysRq+letter Mike Jones started a bug report with some useful information on this issue. (I don't know if you saw that email; this thread is massive...) I just want to point anybody who's interested to this link, in case you have any ideas as to what's going on or how to fix it. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/329644 Thanks. --Dane -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Notable Changes to Jaunty's PulseAudio
Hi all, This morning's upload of PulseAudio to jaunty makes two notable changes for the desktop user: Firstly, autospawn is now enabled, which means that if the daemon is not running when the first client attempts to connect, it will be executed automatically. This step tests a workaround for the daemon ABENDing while we further debug the root cause. The impact of this change is that PulseAudio users who have desktop environments other than GNOME running may experience some nondeterministic behaviour for the default capture and playback devices when the daemon initially autospawns. Please report any such issues using the Launchpad bug tracker. Secondly, we have globally disabled glitch-free to work around a number of driver bugs that do not seem addressable within the jaunty development span. This change reverts PulseAudio behaviour to rely on the driver's interrupt-based buffering semantics, which appear to be more stable for a significant number of jaunty testers. If you would like to reenable glitch-free, edit /etc/pulse/default.pa and change: load-module module-hal-detect tsched=0 to: load-module module-hal-detect Again, please report regressions from the existing jaunty PulseAudio package using the Launchpad bug tracker. Thanks, Dan -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9. Please excuse my brevity.-- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
