Re: Ubuntu development - joining...
The best approach is to search a project/issue that you are interested in, which seems to be improving the laptop experience. There is also a lengthy document from Andreas Lloyd which lots of contacts: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu Thanks for the info. The Ubuntu membership is more a kind of reward for contributing a lot to Ubuntu and expect of getting a nice email address you cannot do a lot with it. You will get commit access (motu/core-dev) if you have proved to be a trustworthy and productive member of the community and the corresponding privileges will help you to improve your work flow a lot. I don't think that this is the case yet. I wasn't implying that I was asking for commit access, just that I was interested in working toward that. If you have a patch just nag the people on IRC about it. OK - I haven't always had the best of luck there, though... All of the above mentioned bugs are very hard to reproduce and a likely cause is not the relevant part of the code that has to be fixed or even a solution. Furthermore it seems that in general the hardware support of the MacBook doesn't seems to be very good: Perhaps some ACPI issues. What about #137598? That one has a patch, and several other people experiencing the issue as reported in the bug. Also, #147883 has an upstream patch. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Non-critical bug fixes/new hardware drivers in stable releases?
Backporting changes is risky. Ubuntu makes the decision that security fixes are worth the risk of backporting. If you are talking about changes that are available in later releases, then the affected users are able to upgrade. In my opinion, it is more important that we don't break the machines of people for whom everything is currently fine. I'm not talking about new features (aside from possibly new drivers). I'm mainly talking about bugs that, while not security/data loss bugs, are still significant annoyances. The HAL bug I mentioned earlier in the thread is the perfect illustration of what I mean. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Non-critical bug fixes/new hardware drivers in stable releases?
Hi, I've been lurking/occasionally posting here for a while, and I would like to bring up an issue that has been a real annoyance in my attempted use of Ubuntu (as well as other Linux distributions, notably Debian) this summer. In short, while I feel that Ubuntu has made real progress with regards to desktop Linux - comparing Hoary and Feisty (the last release I had used prior to this summer) is like night and day. More works out of the box, it's FAR easier to get all the popular non-free codecs, and it generally feels like a modern desktop operating system. However, in installing Ubuntu I ran into a whole slew of issues that, while not will make your system explode/lets hackers in/causes data loss bad, are quite annoying nevertheless. Some examples include: 1. Many USB storage devices can't be properly unmounted using the GUI. One must use the console or use non-optimal workarounds (that are distinctly UNSUPPORTED) to fix this. The bug in particular can be found at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/99538 2. My laptop (a MacBook, don't laugh :) ) won't suspend-to-RAM with the default kernel. To be precise, it will suspend, but it will not resume :) This is fixed in newer kernels (such as those in Gutsy) and can be worked around with a kernel recompile in 2.6.20. However, one must either compile a kernel or use apt-pinning with Gutsy sources to use this fix - a decidedly unsupported and nonintuitive fix. 3. Many other examples that I can't think of off the top of my head - though one may see many of these by looking at the Howto configure XYZ wiki pages. Words such as recompile, add this repository, etc etc seem to be a constant occurence here. This is especially apparent when it comes to new hardware that has drivers, albeit ones that weren't ready as of the stable release. What these issues have in common is that, under current policy (which calls for updates for security/data loss type issues ONLY), there is little or no chance of having them fixed in the stable release. While I can see the merit of keeping changes to stable to a minimum, it seems like the existing policy of Ubuntu (and many distributions - I'm not blaming Ubuntu in particular) is leaving many users out in the cold with regards to their issues until the next release. I can see this policy for a server or enterprise desktop (and thus the LTS releases), but not a normal desktop. For desktop users, it ends up making them fix some bugs/hardware support issues themselves using the command line/third-party repositories/building from source - which is something that should be avoided. Has there been any consideration to easing the stable release updates policy to accommodate issues like these? I'm not necessarily advocating that the stable release receive every update under the sun (certainly not feature-only updates), but it seems like allowing more bug fixes/new drivers to enter the stable release would be beneficial to many end users. I think that many users are probably turned off by the recompile, add this unsupported software, hack this code, etc etc (I know this is what always ends up pushing me away from Linux) and this would go a long way towards alleviating this. Any comments? I'm especially wondering what developers think of this issue... Tim -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu development...
The fact that you submit bug reports and do not follow up / patch them yourself shows a severe disinterest in *really* helping ubuntu and (like most new devel's in all projects) just want to focus on the hot-dog stuff. I do follow up - in fact, I've often posted additional info on my bug reports as to the origin of the issue/suggestions as to what could be done. I may not have the solution to everything, but that doesn't mean that I'm just being lazy or just focusing on the hot-dog stuff. Maybe it means that for you, but I've submitted bugs/ideas to other projects (including *Debian*, of all distributions) and have received plenty of response. 2) RTFM. Please. Coming onto the mailing list and asking for manual locations makes me want to knife myself. Yes it could be clearer, but you are not asking for help or clarifying a point, your just being lazy. I'm not asking for something trivial - I'm asking how to provide input/ideas regarding key components of the system. It's perfectly clear how to do MOTU/Bug Squad/etc - it's NOT clear how to go about suggesting changes to the main desktop setup. I've looked countless times on Launchpad and have remained stumped - RTFM really doesn't help one bit. 3) Before you start working on MAJOR new features, why not help fix bugs and other common problems first? Wouldn't these be more benficial and a better learning process than Making the default system look better?. BTW the way it renders fonts is entirely appropriate: Most people get used to MS's crappy way of sub-sampling fonts to make them look sharper. In many of the cases I've discussed, I'm not necessarily talking about coding a major new project from scratch - I'm talking about integrating already existing code into the system, investigating changes in default settings, etc. Yes, I certainly would work on the smaller bugs/issues as well - and I already know where to go for that (Bug Squad, MOTU, etc etc). However, it's unclear where to go with basic desktop issues/ideas, other than to file a bug in Launchpad, provide all the info you can, and wait. Do any Ubuntu developers care to comment? I'd like to contribute, but I'm beginning to feel like I can't do so in any meaningful way outside the universe and Launchpad bug reports (which, even when I provide extensive info and narrow the problem to something fairly specific, don't tend to get much response). Tim -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Ubuntu development...
Hi, (I know I may have brought up some of this before, but it was in the middle of a Tribe freeze and I wasn't exactly clear regarding what I had to say. Please excuse this...) I'm currently a senior at the University of Michigan, majoring in (what else) Computer Science, and I've been toying with Linux/Open Source for some time now. While it hasn't always been my primary OS, I have regularly tinkered with it and generally know how to deal with tricky issues (kernel compilation, backporting software, working around bugs, etc etc). I've always been partial to Debian-based distributions - RPMs I can't stand, and don't even get me started on Gentoo. Anyway, I'm somewhat interested in Ubuntu development. However, while I have been able to uncover plenty of info about MOTU, that's not where most of my interest lies. My interest lies in mostly working on issues that effect the usability of the main system for an average user - in short, Bug #1 issues. Some things that come to mind include: * Making iPods and music library management work properly without extensive manual tweaking (rhythmbox doesn't quite cut it here) * Make laptop suspend/resume/power management work well with sane out-of-the-box settings (getting better, but still needs tweaking) * Eliminate the need to edit configuration files for commonly-changed settings (synaptics touchpad, I'm looking at you...) * Making the default system look better - especially in the area of font rendering (the default hinting is *ugly*) * Making software upgrades work in a more sane way - in particular making it easier to update individual components of the system without updating everything (why, oh WHY, do I need to update half the system to get something - even simple things - from unstable) I'm curious - where can I help out? I do file some bugs on launchpad, but hardly ever get any followup - understandable, given that many of the issues at hand aren't bugs per se. I have indeed come up with some specific ideas to help resolve the issues at hand, but have yet to find a reliable way to actually propose these ideas and discuss them with developers. Tim -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Getting in touch with development teams...
Hi, I've been using Linux on and off for some time now, and have been looking to get involved in development/testing on the distribution level. Anyway, after looking at many distros and reading about them, it is obvious that the ones that are most appealing to me are Ubuntu and Debian - which obviously share a common heritage (Ubuntu is based on Debian sid). In using Ubuntu, I've actually come up with a few ideas/suggestions involving the core system (i.e. - not MOTU material). In particular, I've been looking into a few laptop-specific issues (power management, odd issues with C-states, etc), and additionally some issues with multimedia support and how it works on Ubuntu. I know about Launchpad and have filed bugs on there, but would like to get directly in touch with the teams working on these issues. I've noticed with Debian that the development is mostly done out in the open on the mailing lists and the bug tracking system with direct contact between developers and users. However, I haven't noticed this so much with Ubuntu. I know that the Core Development Team exists - do they have their own, closed mailing list? Is this development done in house (i.e. physically) at Canonical offices? Could somebody fill me in on this? I'd like to help/offer suggestions on these issues directly with the teams involved. I've tried e-mailing a few people (in particular, those responsible for laptop issues and multimedia), but have not received a response. Tim Hull -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Updates post-release/freeze
I know my last thread was confusing to some developers with regards to my desire for a greater availability of updates post-release. I thought I'd clarify - I'm not primarily thinking of LTS releases, and I'm not suggesting that a large number of supported components be version-updated between releases. However, I do see the desire for some updates to be available between releases, to a greater extent than backports currently handles (for instance, backports currently has no interest in making any new kernels available, and only has a limited number of packages). In many cases, users who need something that is not in the stable release but which is available (for instance, kernel fixes which came after the stable release, or a bugfix for a universe application) are having to compile from source. 1) For supported components, Stable Release Updates could be expanded to incorporate all significant bugfixes that can be done in a sane and safe way (i.e. without major version bumps). This could include supporting new hardware (like new revs of a wireless chipset) as well as fixing miscellaneous issues like suspend-to-RAM breakage. If a major version rev is necessary, this could be included but not installed by default. 2) For unsupported components, Universe (and multiverse) could be updated on a rolling basis after release. This could be for mere feature updates - though they would still have to not require new versions of main components. Components in main could have unsupported updates in universe, though these would have to install alongside the main packages (firefox3, for instance, could be a Firefox 3 package). A universe freeze could be maintained, though updates after the fact would merely go in universe-updates instead of universe. This would supplant the existing backports system, and would actually parallel what FreeBSD does with its ports. Devs, I'm curious to hear your thoughts. Is there anything I can do as a user to help bring about anything like this? Once again, thanks for the nice distro... Tim -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Updates post-release/freeze
This all takes more resources. In Universe and Backports both we do not have sufficient communicty involvement to support the current demand. IMO any proposal for more $STUFF that isn't paid for should also have some thoughts about where the labor to do the work is going to come from. The idea would be to have the stable universe updated in much the same way as the unstable universe is. I.e. instead of building new updates against just gutsy, they would built against Feisty and Gutsy, with the Feisty updates going to universe-updates. There could be an RC bug delay in having them built for the stable release - think the Debian testing strategy. I understand why you suggest this can't be done, though. Anyway, I don't mean to sound rude in any respect. I will admit, I tend to sometimes think up ideas without truly thinking over the logistics. I do intend to get involved somehow - possibly in SRU or Backports (if not for Ubuntu, then for Debian). I appreciate what has been done so far, and I know you developers are doing a lot as-is. Thank you... Tim -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Getting involved in Ubuntu development/testing...
For the past several years, I have dabbled in Linux/GNU/open source/free software, starting in 1999 when I managed my first Linux install, which was Debian 2.0 (now THAT was dependency hell - no apt back then). Since then, I have always been partial to the Debian way of doing things, as compared to the world of RPMs or building everything from source. However, I have been frustrated by Debian's somewhat-slow pace of development, occasional hostility towards new users (both in the system sense and community sense), and the free software or no software mentality some have in the world-of-Debian. I do, however, greatly appreciate and respect the contributions the Debian Project has made - it's truly quite amazing for an all-volunteer project. Now, Ubuntu has taken the Debian base and added many things to it that I like - regular releases, support for hardware that doesn't have 100% Free drivers, ease of use, and a general friendliness towards new users in general. As such, I have been following Ubuntu since it first came out. However, though Ubuntu has done a great job overall, I still see many issues that need desperate attention - laptop support, iPod support, and ease of application installs/upgrades outside of distribution releases, to name a few. As a result, I have ended up flip-flopping between Ubuntu and Mac OS X - which I actually started using after I got sick of Windows and couldn't get ACPI going well in the very early days of Ubuntu. On OS X, however, I sorely miss the sense of community and the world of open source/free software from Ubuntu. Anyway, I am very interested in helping out with Ubuntu in any way I can. While I can't code C very well, I have extensive experience beta-testing software for a couple proprietary OS vendors. I also have a large amount of general experience, and have managed to do things as weird as putting the home partition on an HFS+ volume (to keep files in sync with OS X). Also, I have begun filing bugs in Launchpad for Ubuntu. However, I feel like I can do much more - as in many of these cases, I have pinpointed the source of the problem and feel that something could be done about it. Additionally, in using Ubuntu I have come up with many of my own ideas for improvements. Filing a bug in Launchpad, however, doesn't seem to result in much in any of these areas. How can I get involved? I've seen some things about the Bug Squad, the Laptop Testing Team, and Masters of the Universe, and I'm not exactly sure how it all works. In particular, I'm interested in helping report and fix bugs (though not in the raw, in-depth coding sense), possibly packaging some software (I noticed xcalib - a useful CLI tool for adjusting your color profile/gamma in X using a profile - isn't packaged), and helping identify issues with Ubuntu and possible solutions to them (such as the afore-mentioned iPod support). One issue of mine is that I am somewhat limited in my testing hardware - currently I have one system - a MacBook - and have waffled between running Ubuntu natively and on VMware in Mac OS (mostly due to power management issues). At the moment, I don't run Ubuntu full-time, but I hope things mature to the point where I feel I can do so without giving up anything. Furthermore, I want to help towards that goal. Comments, suggestions, etc welcome... I'm curious from hearing from Ubuntu developers on this.. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
