Re: Allowing passwordless login via GDM
On lun, 2007-03-05 at 10:41 +0100, Milan wrote: So, should I open a feature request ? On launchpad or on gnome.org ? Rather on gnome.org, no reason for the feature to be distribution specific. Sebastien Bacher -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Allowing passwordless login via GDM
Done : http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=414862 Milan -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Allowing passwordless login via GDM
Jan Claeys wrote: On vr, 2007-02-23 at 11:37 +0100, Milan wrote: The question is, do we want to discourage people from switching to Linux, and do we want Ubuntu to be the best distribution for home end-users? I don't believe removing security measures at the same time as Microsoft is adding them is really going to make Ubuntu the _best_ distro... If you look at it one way, it is a usability issue. I do not think passwordless accounts should come anywhere near the word default but they do have their place. 25 seconds until Guest is automatically logged in... 24 seconds... 23 seconds... Used as a kiosk and similar scenario it is a valid use. Personal data and security are concerns in this case, but not enough to block this use case and having warnings on the desktop and in apps that send data (browser forms and similar -- Guest user, not secure) and slow oscillating background brightness can be used to alert against using this account for anything where privacy is a concern. Mike -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Allowing passwordless login via GDM
On Monday 26 February 2007 22:33, Mike Fedyk wrote: So does GDM. No, it doesn't. As the OP tried to point out, there is a semantic difference between autologin and password-less login. Autologin automatically logs one specific user into the system, while password-less login requires the user to type in the username and press enter. It allows the user to choose at login time which system user will log into the system. While password-less logins are inevitably a privacy concern, I think we should enable our users to make an educated choice by providing the feature (like kdm does) and making 100% sure that they are informed what the consequences are (reduced security, decrease of privacy, tell them not to save any important data using this account...). Cheers, Florian -- Florian Hackenberger student @ University of Technology Graz, Austria [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.hackenberger.at -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Allowing passwordless login via GDM
On 2/27/07, Florian Hackenberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday 26 February 2007 22:33, Mike Fedyk wrote: So does GDM. No, it doesn't. As the OP tried to point out, there is a semantic difference between autologin and password-less login. Autologin automatically logs one specific user into the system, while password-less login requires the user to type in the username and press enter. It allows the user to choose at login time which system user will log into the system. While password-less logins are inevitably a privacy concern, I think we should enable our users to make an educated choice by providing the feature (like kdm does) and making 100% sure that they are informed what the consequences are (reduced security, decrease of privacy, tell them not to save any important data using this account...). I was raised that physical access trumps all security measures (except properly applied crypto). I fail to see how this significantly affects security (except for laptops). We're not talking about passwordless accounts, but rather bypassing the password for physical access. I can see how this would be useful for public computers such as libraries and kiosks. Perhaps a school computer has a default passwordless logon for students, and allows teachers to login w/ their own account/password. Our users are not idiots, despite how much some of you seem to think they are. That passwordless logons have privacy implications is quite obvious, even to non-technical users. It also seems that there could be benefits and applications for such a feature. However, this should also be considered in light of the requests to auto-login for gnome-keyring. It seems that it would be more correct to distinguish between password/passwordless logons for that spec. Idiotically yours, Mark Reitblatt -- Anybody who tells me I can't use a program because it's not open source, go suck on rms. I'm not interested. 99% of that I run tends to be open source, but that's _my_ choice, dammit. -- Linus Torvalds -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Allowing passwordless login via GDM
On Friday 23 February 2007 15:16, Milan wrote: But you're mistaking on my proposal. I just ask to allow *GDM* to skip password check, just like it *currently does* with autologin. I'm all for it, even more so because KDM has an option for exactly this feature. Cheers, Florian -- Florian Hackenberger www.hackenberger.at -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Allowing passwordless login via GDM
Florian Hackenberger wrote: On Friday 23 February 2007 15:16, Milan wrote: But you're mistaking on my proposal. I just ask to allow *GDM* to skip password check, just like it *currently does* with autologin. I'm all for it, even more so because KDM has an option for exactly this feature. So does GDM. http://www.k12ltsp.org/mediawiki/index.php/GDM_auto-login_with_specific_users_to_specific_terminals -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Allowing passwordless login via GDM
On vr, 2007-02-23 at 11:37 +0100, Milan wrote: Hey, you guys have a geek way of thinking I didn't expected to encounter on an Ubuntu mailing list ! I'm not talking about five-year-old children's ability to type in a password, nor of the need of their parents to control them. I'm talking of making life easier to users who want to use this feature. Let's them bring up their child as they want to ! I gave the very young children as an example why a passwordless account might be useful (even if there is an adult around, she/he might be doing other work and preferring not to interrupt it). For you, typing a password each time you log in isn't an issue. But I believe using the console is not neither. For a normal end-user, this is boring. Having to type a PIN-code before getting my money from an ATM (or having to type it twice when using a self-bank!) is boring too. Yet I wouldn't want it to just give this money to the guy who stole my wallet. Moreover, this feature won't bring down security at all: you still need to enter your password to use gksudo, or ssh... There is a lot of privacy-related things that don't require a password... This is only an old Unix-geek reflex putting down Windows about its lacks. But this is not a lack, even Windows has many! Linux power is that you can enable almost all features you want/need, while they are not dangerous. Well, it already *is* possible to do what you want, but IMHO it's just not a good default setting, and especially not for users that have administrator rights... [...] The question is, do we want to discourage people from switching to Linux, and do we want Ubuntu to be the best distribution for home end-users? I don't believe removing security measures at the same time as Microsoft is adding them is really going to make Ubuntu the _best_ distro... -- Jan Claeys -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Allowing passwordless login via GDM
Hey, you guys have a geek way of thinking I didn't expected to encounter on an Ubuntu mailing list ! I'm not talking about five-year-old children's ability to type in a password, nor of the need of their parents to control them. I'm talking of making life easier to users who want to use this feature. Let's them bring up their child as they want to ! For you, typing a password each time you log in isn't an issue. But I believe using the console is not neither. For a normal end-user, this is boring. Coming from Windows or OS X, it's, before people have got to their desktop, a bad point for Ubuntu. Moreover, this feature won't bring down security at all: you still need to enter your password to use gksudo, or ssh... This is only an old Unix-geek reflex putting down Windows about its lacks. But this is not a lack, even Windows has many! Linux power is that you can enable almost all features you want/need, while they are not dangerous. You said users that want to log in without password must have to search a little to set it up. This is what I've done at home. But this is not possible for most of the people, those who need passwordless connexions! I know this feature will be coded, if not now, within 5 years, because this is really needed. The question is, do we want to discourage people from switching to Linux, and do we want Ubuntu to be the best distribution for home end-users? I can't believe that this position is the one of the majority of the team. This way, nothing would have been done at all on Ubuntu (compared to Debian, which I love, for example). Amicably, Milan -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Allowing passwordless login via GDM
Milan a écrit : Hey, you guys have a geek way of thinking I didn't expected to encounter on an Ubuntu mailing list ! I'm not talking about five-year-old children's ability to type in a password, nor of the need of their parents to control them. I'm talking of making life easier to users who want to use this feature. Let's them bring up their child as they want to ! Man, you gonna start a big troll about that geek thing. your way of expressing your ideas isn't good. If I should try to speak in your way, i would call non-password-users , noob-with-no-security-notion . And will that make things evolve ? we would stick in our position and nothing will happen. For you, typing a password each time you log in isn't an issue. But I believe using the console is not neither. For a normal end-user, this is boring. Coming from Windows or OS X, it's, before people have got to their desktop, a bad point for Ubuntu. I got my sister-in-law and her family move under ubuntu. The girl is not computer lover at all. But guess what, she didn't even ask about that question. she was even proud of the fact she can protect her account. oh yeah ! I forgot, I don't even dream of telling her what a console is. Moreover, this feature won't bring down security at all: you still need to enter your password to use gksudo, or ssh... This is only an old Unix-geek reflex putting down Windows about its lacks. But this is not a lack, even Windows has many! Linux power is that you can enable almost all features you want/need, while they are not dangerous. Guess what, that's what Microsoft were thinking when they decide to create those ActiveX thing. let's make the computer ease people life without even telling them. And now ActiveX is the biggest hole of IE. You said users that want to log in without password must have to search a little to set it up. This is what I've done at home. But this is not possible for most of the people, those who need passwordless connexions! I know this feature will be coded, if not now, within 5 years, because this is really needed. The question is, do we want to discourage people from switching to Linux, and do we want Ubuntu to be the best distribution for home end-users? I can't believe that this position is the one of the majority of the team. This way, nothing would have been done at all on Ubuntu (compared to Debian, which I love, for example). I'll tell you my opinion. none of your arguments changed it. I think people shouldn't think of windows has an example when switching to Linux. Linux is known for its improve security but if we bring that kind of spirit inside, we'll lose it. Cheers wattazoum -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Allowing passwordless login via GDM
Moreover, this feature won't bring down security at all: you still need to enter your password to use gksudo, or ssh... This is only an old Unix-geek reflex putting down Windows about its lacks. But this is not a lack, even Windows has many! Linux power is that you can enable almost all features you want/need, while they are not dangerous An example of security related to that hit me. Let's say we have a passwordless account called User. then let's install xchat-gnome ( IRC chat client). Xchat is well done, and nicely integrated in ubuntu, so when you launch it, it proposes you to take your login as a nickname, well, since *User* don't care he just accepts. Suppose there is a security hole/feature (on xchat or another program or server ) that can give a third person access to the computer and propose him to login ( badly set up ssh, or another daemon like vnc ). the third person already knows the login, and don't need a password. He is in ! ( to prevent that the computer manager should have well set up the computer, right ? so he should have work more just to let people login without password.) You might tell me , yeah, the guy is in but got no administrative right ! . First he can destroy all *User*'s datas. Isn't that bad enough ? Let's continue. By default, any user has read access to /etc/passwd . then he could get all users login there. There is obviously one of them with sudo right. So now he has passed the security introduced by ubuntu in forcing the pirate to found a pair login/password. All of that because we created a user without password. :( -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Allowing passwordless login via GDM
I'm not tying to make a troll in any way, and I'm sorry if this subject is fulling the list with useless arguments. And I don't think neither that we should compare Linux to Windows: what I propose is really far from ActiveX, and I will castigate anyone intending to create this for Linux. But you're mistaking on my proposal. I just ask to allow *GDM* to skip password check, just like it *currently does* with autologin. First, this is just an extension of autologin system, so if my idea is dangerous, we have to remove automated connexion feature from GDM immediately. Second, you can't connect to a passwordless account via ssh, vnc or others because it's disabled by default. As Jan Claeys said, PermitEmptyPasswords setting for sshd is no by default, and this is a good thing. Third, I don't ask to use passwordless accounts, which are currently to only way to connect without typing anything, and which are weak œconerning security. With my proposal, your argument is no valid at all, since the account is using a password, and more, a *good* password, since the user hasn't to type it every minute. Think that many users want to use a simple, short, and maybe easy to remember/find (firstname, account name...) because they have to type it often. And I don't speak of empty passwords you are encouraged to set manually. wattazoum, your criticism is really far from reality, because in addition of all this, openssh server is not installed be default, portmap doesn't allow WAN computers to connect to port 22, nor any other port. You currently have to hack the config files to enable it. I would like this topic to be constructive, not only a sterile argument. But it seems nobody is taking seriously the problem and its implications. Again, I'm sorry if this is taking space in the mailing list with no interest at all. But I'm surprised of the reaction. Milan -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Allowing passwordless login via GDM
Milan a écrit : I think this kind of use is a main target for Ubuntu, and using no password at all should be proposed to the user when he creates an account. that was in your message date 22.02.2007 14:46 on my computer. So I understood *no password at all* . Now that you're saying clearly that you want an option in GDM to not prompt for a password for some users, I can understand it and I think it can be useful. A case has happened to me. I sometimes get some visit at home from people that would like to see their email. so I had to set up a account for them but it would have been useful to not have a gdm password on this one. So my mistake. At the beginning of that thread I had understood well the proposal, and you'll notice I didn't answer till that sentence of you . -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Allowing passwordless login via GDM
Hi all! On home computers, people often want to log in without password at all. This should be possible, and easy to configure. The problem is, you need a password to connect using ssh, to have sudo rights, to protect others from setting a new password... I suggest to allow to log in without typing any password, but only via GDM (just like Autologin does automatically). Users enter a password when creating their account, and it's used when necessary (see up). But GDM config panel allows to choose a passwordless login for some users (like we choose showed users on face browser). Together with the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnifiedLoginUnlock spec, this will make Ubuntu usable for home users. Currently, I have to hack /etc/pam.d and /etc/shadow to allow my parents to login without password: this is a real lack compared to Windows ! What do you think ? Milan -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Allowing passwordless login via GDM
Hi Milan, Milan [2007-02-22 10:44 +0100]: Currently, I have to hack /etc/pam.d and /etc/shadow to allow my parents to login without password: this is a real lack compared to Windows ! This should not be necessary at all. gdm's configuration program already offers the option of automatic login (which should stay off by default, of course). If this does not work, can you please file a bug against gdm? Martin -- Martin Pitthttp://www.piware.de Ubuntu Developer http://www.ubuntu.com Debian Developer http://www.debian.org signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Allowing passwordless login via GDM
This should not be necessary at all. gdm's configuration program already offers the option of automatic login But that would only be useful in his case: -if he actually wants his parents to automatically log in every time the computer is booted, which might not be the case. -if his parents have a single user account. In any other scenario, what he demanded COULD be necessary -or at least it would be convenient-. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Fwd: Allowing passwordless login via GDM
Although GDM can do autologin, it will only work for one user, and not every user one would wish to make this work. On 2/22/07, Martin Pitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Milan, Milan [2007-02-22 10:44 +0100]: Currently, I have to hack /etc/pam.d and /etc/shadow to allow my parents to login without password: this is a real lack compared to Windows ! This should not be necessary at all. gdm's configuration program already offers the option of automatic login (which should stay off by default, of course). If this does not work, can you please file a bug against gdm? Martin -- Martin Pitthttp://www.piware.de Ubuntu Developer http://www.ubuntu.com Debian Developer http://www.debian.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFF3XvqDecnbV4Fd/IRArFUAKDayfq7mVLrSs6rd+YRKcacD2qzqgCg3QHh pd7BOJ1RQkcPUEVM6Oetw3k= =HFN8 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss -- BUGabundo :o) (``-_-´´) http://BUGabundo.net http://BrinKadeiraS.BUGabundo.net http://host.BUGabundo.net -- http://alojamento.BUGabundo.net From 1€ / month Crazy Domain Insane (200GB disk, 2TB bw, 6.00€ ($7.95)/month) at http://www.dreamhost.com/r.cgi?249195/signup|BUG50 50$ discount with promo code BUG50 on all plans -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Allowing passwordless login via GDM
Martin wrote: This should not be necessary at all. gdm's configuration program already offers the option of automatic login (which should stay off by default, of course). If this does not work, can you please file a bug against gdm? This is working fine. But it was thinking of a home computer with several accounts (typically 2-5), some without passwords (what do you have to hide to your family ?). Windows deals with this type of accounts since XP, and we still require users to have a password, although it can be boring when you don't really need to protect your data. I think this kind of use is a main target for Ubuntu, and using no password at all should be proposed to the user when he creates an account. Milan -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Allowing passwordless login via GDM
On do, 2007-02-22 at 15:54 +0100, Ouattara Oumar Aziz wrote: Should we do the same mistakes as in windows ? I think having a password is better cause we should teach people about security measures. and that gdm password thing's a pretty simple thing but means a lot. True, but I see at least one exception: young children don't know how to enter a username password. OTOH they don't need administrator (sudo) rights of course... -- Jan Claeys -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Allowing passwordless login via GDM
On 2/22/07, Jan Claeys [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On do, 2007-02-22 at 15:54 +0100, Ouattara Oumar Aziz wrote: Should we do the same mistakes as in windows ? I think having a password is better cause we should teach people about security measures. and that gdm password thing's a pretty simple thing but means a lot. True, but I see at least one exception: young children don't know how to enter a username password. OTOH they don't need administrator (sudo) rights of course... what I did in that situation was to have the young kids account autologin without a password after 20sec via gdm. That account obviously didn't have any admin rights. If a grown up wanted to login into their own account, they had 20 secs to do it after the machine booted into gdm, or via the fast-user-switch-applet from within the kids session. So the kids just had to turn on the computer, and within a minute they were in their user session without any interactions. With the appropriate icons setup in the panel or in the desktop, they will all ready to go to play, even if they don't know how to read. But kids can learn pretty easily about username/password And by the time they know how to read and type my experience is that they will use the password method rather easily. I known that my oldest son, once I created his first own user account and password, was pretty excited to have his own like his parents. His password is still a bit weak, but we'll work on this later on :) -- Daniel Robitaille -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Allowing passwordless login via GDM
On do, 2007-02-22 at 08:29 -0800, Daniel Robitaille wrote: But kids can learn pretty easily about username/password And by the time they know how to read and type my experience is that they will use the password method rather easily. I known that my oldest son, once I created his first own user account and password, was pretty excited to have his own like his parents. His password is still a bit weak, but we'll work on this later on :) I can imagine that, but the dad who asked me has kids of 3 4 years old, which might be a bit young for passwords (although some kids could maybe do it at that age, I think most won't). -- Jan Claeys -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Allowing passwordless login via GDM
On do, 2007-02-22 at 08:06 -0800, George Farris wrote: I say forget it. Users should be trained into thinking about security. Having a password is a small price to pay. One day they will inadvertently install openssh-server and then, lookout. The PermitEmptyPasswords setting for sshd is no by default... ;-) -- Jan Claeys -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Allowing passwordless login via GDM
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jan Claeys wrote: On do, 2007-02-22 at 15:54 +0100, Ouattara Oumar Aziz wrote: Should we do the same mistakes as in windows ? I think having a password is better cause we should teach people about security measures. and that gdm password thing's a pretty simple thing but means a lot. True, but I see at least one exception: young children don't know how to enter a username password. OTOH they don't need administrator (sudo) rights of course... I disagree. First, ime children seem to handle pretty much everything about using a computer better than their parents past about age ten. Prior to that, they shouldn't really be on unsupervised much anyway. Better to teach them good habits early on than to coddle and have to break those later. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFF3eO06iO+5ByUi/QRAoYvAJ9fwb9qOaiGgxtHeAHJT5rNzh0KxACgmGvU ehxz79rRKVmo1y4r8cpDNnM= =9/nt -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Allowing passwordless login via GDM
Anthony Yarusso wrote: Jan Claeys wrote: On do, 2007-02-22 at 15:54 +0100, Ouattara Oumar Aziz wrote: Should we do the same mistakes as in windows ? I think having a password is better cause we should teach people about security measures. and that gdm password thing's a pretty simple thing but means a lot. True, but I see at least one exception: young children don't know how to enter a username password. OTOH they don't need administrator (sudo) rights of course... I disagree. First, ime children seem to handle pretty much everything about using a computer better than their parents past about age ten. Prior to that, they shouldn't really be on unsupervised much anyway. Better to teach them good habits early on than to coddle and have to break those later. I agree. I don't think making passwordless login easy (let alone default...) isn't a good practice at all. If a user wants passwordless logins, s/he should work hard to find how to do it (just like I did). In the process, s/he will learn that passwords are a very important part of what Linux can do for you (just like I did)... Ubuntu, in the sense used by OP, is already usable for home users. We need better support for hardware and a few more GUI tools etc but it's usable as it is now... There should be a *limit* to how Windowsish Ubuntu can become. Getting rid of passwords is I think really too much... I think we should let people learn about passwords. They should go beyond their Windows-habit of doing everything without passwords... I think we are adapting too much and too quickly Gnome's motto of keep it simple stupid (sic)... As i said, there is a limit to this. Sincerely. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Allowing passwordless login via GDM
On do, 2007-02-22 at 13:40 -0500, Anthony Yarusso wrote: Jan Claeys wrote: True, but I see at least one exception: young children don't know how to enter a username password. OTOH they don't need administrator (sudo) rights of course... I disagree. First, ime children seem to handle pretty much everything about using a computer better than their parents past about age ten. Prior to that, they shouldn't really be on unsupervised much anyway. And how does requiring a password result in better supervision? -- Jan Claeys -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Allowing passwordless login via GDM
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jan Claeys wrote: On do, 2007-02-22 at 13:40 -0500, Anthony Yarusso wrote: Jan Claeys wrote: True, but I see at least one exception: young children don't know how to enter a username password. OTOH they don't need administrator (sudo) rights of course... I disagree. First, ime children seem to handle pretty much everything about using a computer better than their parents past about age ten. Prior to that, they shouldn't really be on unsupervised much anyway. And how does requiring a password result in better supervision? It doesn't (unless it's one the child doesn't know). My point was in response to the idea that it should be possible for kids too young to type in a password to be able to get on a computer on their own. Given that a responsible parent is sitting there with them anyway, they can type the password until the child is old enough to do the typing on their own (although preferably the parent sticks around past five (as Daniel said) anyway. Hope that clarifies. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFF3fgM6iO+5ByUi/QRAlCvAJ477NrwWkLeg0qeeZguDgwlh32LtgCfVOKd bCTqCExng1rVRLBNJmfnBz4= =3Xqd -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
