Re: [ubuntu-uk] [OT] Open Source Project kafuffle...
On 10 Aug 2009, at 02:43, Andy Smith a...@strugglers.net wrote: Hi James, On Sun, Aug 09, 2009 at 08:03:14PM +0100, James Milligan wrote: Just a quick update for y'all (I've also turned American!) I've been in touch with the PL, and essentially he's saying that there is now no license, nor was there ever one (I still need to confirm this, but I'm not too fussed as you'll see in a second) What you've posted previously does look like a license, and if you received the software under that license then I believe that's what you can abide by regardless of what he says now. However.. He is also defiant on one point - he is not going to restart the project. The only way he would let the project come back alive, is if someone pays him so that they can take over. ...if he doesn't want the project to continue then I can imagine a few ways he can make your life hard. Obviously he can claim that you aren't one of the developers and therefore you can't assume or grant the extra rights required to modify the software. He'd have to prove it of course, but do you really need this hassle? Think about what happens if he goes quiet and you do a lot of extra work on this software, to the point where it actually becomes commercially viable (again?). What stops him then taking control back again? You can't license your new work under any open source license because it is derivative of something which definitely is not an open source license. It could get really messy. Not only is this annoying, it's a bit off if you ask me. He did, fairly, develop most of the software - so I see where he is coming from, but others have since added to it etc, they wouldn't be getting a share of the profits. But none of the people who have contributed to it seem to have ever discussed the license under which their work was being included, or whether copyright was being assigned. So that was a bit naive of them. I have, however, offered him a small offer (£50)in the meantime to take it over - I won't believe it if he refuses, as he's not going to get any other offers, nor is it really worth that much. It's more for the benefit of the users that I'm paying. I haven't heard back yet RE my offer, but I'll let you know what happens. Personally if I were going to go this way then I'd need him to provide a written, signed statement that the entire project is to be relicensed under some open source license. Even then you may have issues with the indeterminate licensing of the things other people have contributed. He's probably not going to go for that, but without it I don't see how you can be confident about future development. Finally, also bear in mind that this is a publicly archived mailing list and things posted here by you or others might end up being mentioned in any dispute. This is not legal advice etc... Cheers, Andy -- http://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting You dont have to be illiterate to use the Internet, but it help's. -- Mike Bristow Thanks for your reply Andy He's now decided not to charge me, as I'll be forking out for new domains and hosting anyway (well not hosting but that's another story) The last email I sent was discussing the license so I'm waiting for a reply on that one. I'm keen to relicense it asap -as we're not all lawyers you probably won't want to comment but if I was to relicense it all from the off, would that be it as far as we're concerned? He has effectively said that I'm in control now, so it's kind of all up to me how I proceed but I wouldn't mind some general advice on the implications of relicensing a non-open source project -if there's a page on the Internet then I'd be most welcome! I'll also email the fsf in the meantime. Sorry for all the doom and gloom I've brought upon you all over the past couple of days - hopefully I'll get the project turned around and back up to what it used to be like again, then we can be happy that it didn't just die :-) James Milligan -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [OT] Open Source Project kafuffle...
On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 07:34:02AM +0100, James Milligan wrote: He's now decided not to charge me, as I'll be forking out for new domains and hosting anyway (well not hosting but that's another story) The last email I sent was discussing the license so I'm waiting for a reply on that one. I'm keen to relicense it asap -as we're not all lawyers you probably won't want to comment but if I was to relicense it all from the off, would that be it as far as we're concerned? He has effectively said that I'm in control now, so it's kind of all up to me how I proceed but I wouldn't mind some general advice on the implications of relicensing a non-open source project -if there's a page on the Internet then I'd be most welcome! I'll also email the fsf in the meantime. Good to hear, if everything goes to plan i'd suggest hosting the actual code for the project on one of the numerous project hosting services (launchpad, sourceforge, etc.) and hopefully avoid this type of issue for the project in the future. -- Andrew Williams w: http://tensixtyone.com/ e: a...@tensixtyone.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [OT] Open Source Project kafuffle...
On 10 Aug 2009, at 08:39, Andrew Williams a...@tensixtyone.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 07:34:02AM +0100, James Milligan wrote: He's now decided not to charge me, as I'll be forking out for new domains and hosting anyway (well not hosting but that's another story) The last email I sent was discussing the license so I'm waiting for a reply on that one. I'm keen to relicense it asap -as we're not all lawyers you probably won't want to comment but if I was to relicense it all from the off, would that be it as far as we're concerned? He has effectively said that I'm in control now, so it's kind of all up to me how I proceed but I wouldn't mind some general advice on the implications of relicensing a non-open source project -if there's a page on the Internet then I'd be most welcome! I'll also email the fsf in the meantime. Good to hear, if everything goes to plan i'd suggest hosting the actual code for the project on one of the numerous project hosting services (launchpad, sourceforge, etc.) and hopefully avoid this type of issue for the project in the future. -- Andrew Williams w: http://tensixtyone.com/ e: a...@tensixtyone.com Sure - this is the type of thing I'll be looking into this week hopefully. In terms of licenses, as it is software, would CC licenses still be valid? If this is one of those small matches that turns into a flame war I apologise! I don't know how strongly you guys feel about this stuff :-) James -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [OT] Open Source Project kafuffle...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 James Milligan wrote: snip In terms of licenses, as it is software, would CC licenses still be valid? If this is one of those small matches that turns into a flame war I apologise! I don't know how strongly you guys feel about this stuff :-) James See http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Frequently_Asked_Questions. Basically Creative Commons don't recommend it. There are other's, but you'd probably want to use the GPL (http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html), LGPL (http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/lesser.html), BSD (http://opensource.org/licenses/bsd-license.php) or Apache License (http://www.apache.org/licenses/). - -- Thanks Harry Rickards hricka...@l33tmyst.com GPG Key Info: pub 1024R/58449F6F 2009-06-12 uid Harry Rickards (OpenPGP Card) hricka...@l33tmyst.com sub 1024R/D775CCEE 2009-06-12 sub 1024R/9394048C 2009-06-12 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iJwEAQECAAYFAkp/5MIACgkQ+9DWHFhEn29nswQAl/AhkQngFHHWH4T3uyvns5qP oRUjMtdqPoSYBCeYtBMT7fV9mcsgFcGerezlPqfie/GOHmarPo+o48ZvyStmo6au h3LDw39LS0f84APooZ2BWzUB5apNh0K4ARtnOv0673asr6d6p4iMjNTHc06rsQ1j DGj9GvGwqCRT1ew5aJg= =uDU7 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [OT] Open Source Project kafuffle...
Harry Rickards wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 James Milligan wrote: snip In terms of licenses, as it is software, would CC licenses still be valid? If this is one of those small matches that turns into a flame war I apologise! I don't know how strongly you guys feel about this stuff :-) James See http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Frequently_Asked_Questions. Basically Creative Commons don't recommend it. There are other's, but you'd probably want to use the GPL (http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html), LGPL (http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/lesser.html), BSD (http://opensource.org/licenses/bsd-license.php) or Apache License (http://www.apache.org/licenses/). If it is a web app, (you said it was forum software, IIRC) you might want to consider the affero gpl: http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/agpl-3.0.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affero_General_Public_License HTH John -- John Levin http://www.technolalia.org/blog/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [OT] Open Source Project kafuffle...
On Mon, 10 Aug 2009, James Milligan wrote: On 10 Aug 2009, at 02:43, Andy Smith a...@strugglers.net wrote: provide a written, signed statement that the entire project general advice on the implications of relicensing a non-open source The easiest, simplist is probably to get the following included in the source code (instead of the original TC). Copyright 200x-200y Name of Original Author em...@address All source code and documentation is hereby placed in the Public Domain. Then, as the follow-up devlopers, you have the maximum flexibility. -Paul -- Why do one side of a triangle when you can do all three. Somewhere, GB. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [OT] Open Source Project kafuffle...
On 10 Aug 2009, at 13:47, Paul Sladen ubu...@paul.sladen.org wrote: On Mon, 10 Aug 2009, James Milligan wrote: On 10 Aug 2009, at 02:43, Andy Smith a...@strugglers.net wrote: provide a written, signed statement that the entire project general advice on the implications of relicensing a non-open source The easiest, simplist is probably to get the following included in the source code (instead of the original TC). Copyright 200x-200y Name of Original Author em...@address All source code and documentation is hereby placed in the Public Domain. Then, as the follow-up devlopers, you have the maximum flexibility. -Paul -- Why do one side of a triangle when you can do all three. Somewhere, GB. Could that perhaps be placed on the website, and the new license / only/ be incorporated into the source? James -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [OT] Open Source Project kafuffle...
On Mon, 10 Aug 2009, James Milligan wrote: Could that perhaps be placed on the website, and the new license / only/ be incorporated into the source? The first thing you need to do is get a couple of the source code that doesn't have distribution/modification/use restrictions. If you get that, you're fine and can plan the package holiday and the new website. If you don't get that, the package holiday and website hosting will have been mostly in vein. -Paul -- Why do one side of a triangle when you can do all three. Somewhere, GB. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [OT] Open Source Project kafuffle...
Just a quick update for y'all (I've also turned American!) I've been in touch with the PL, and essentially he's saying that there is now no license, nor was there ever one (I still need to confirm this, but I'm not too fussed as you'll see in a second) He is also defiant on one point - he is not going to restart the project. The only way he would let the project come back alive, is if someone pays him so that they can take over. Not only is this annoying, it's a bit off if you ask me. He did, fairly, develop most of the software - so I see where he is coming from, but others have since added to it etc, they wouldn't be getting a share of the profits. I have, however, offered him a small offer (£50)in the meantime to take it over - I won't believe it if he refuses, as he's not going to get any other offers, nor is it really worth that much. It's more for the benefit of the users that I'm paying. I haven't heard back yet RE my offer, but I'll let you know what happens. James -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [OT] Open Source Project kafuffle...
Hi James, On Sun, Aug 09, 2009 at 08:03:14PM +0100, James Milligan wrote: Just a quick update for y'all (I've also turned American!) I've been in touch with the PL, and essentially he's saying that there is now no license, nor was there ever one (I still need to confirm this, but I'm not too fussed as you'll see in a second) What you've posted previously does look like a license, and if you received the software under that license then I believe that's what you can abide by regardless of what he says now. However.. He is also defiant on one point - he is not going to restart the project. The only way he would let the project come back alive, is if someone pays him so that they can take over. ...if he doesn't want the project to continue then I can imagine a few ways he can make your life hard. Obviously he can claim that you aren't one of the developers and therefore you can't assume or grant the extra rights required to modify the software. He'd have to prove it of course, but do you really need this hassle? Think about what happens if he goes quiet and you do a lot of extra work on this software, to the point where it actually becomes commercially viable (again?). What stops him then taking control back again? You can't license your new work under any open source license because it is derivative of something which definitely is not an open source license. It could get really messy. Not only is this annoying, it's a bit off if you ask me. He did, fairly, develop most of the software - so I see where he is coming from, but others have since added to it etc, they wouldn't be getting a share of the profits. But none of the people who have contributed to it seem to have ever discussed the license under which their work was being included, or whether copyright was being assigned. So that was a bit naive of them. I have, however, offered him a small offer (£50)in the meantime to take it over - I won't believe it if he refuses, as he's not going to get any other offers, nor is it really worth that much. It's more for the benefit of the users that I'm paying. I haven't heard back yet RE my offer, but I'll let you know what happens. Personally if I were going to go this way then I'd need him to provide a written, signed statement that the entire project is to be relicensed under some open source license. Even then you may have issues with the indeterminate licensing of the things other people have contributed. He's probably not going to go for that, but without it I don't see how you can be confident about future development. Finally, also bear in mind that this is a publicly archived mailing list and things posted here by you or others might end up being mentioned in any dispute. This is not legal advice etc... Cheers, Andy -- http://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting You dont have to be illiterate to use the Internet, but it help's. -- Mike Bristow signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [OT] Open Source Project kafuffle...
Hi, Agree with your email, until: On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 9:42 PM, Paul Sladenubu...@paul.sladen.org wrote: If you *are* one of the developers, you appear to be able to give yourself consent under item 1.---and therefore give yourself consent to relicence it under something even vagely open. I'm not actually sure that would be possible. You would actually have to own the entire copyright to the code to relicense it, or everyone who has a claim to copyright on the code would have to agree to the new license. I don't believe the first clause allows you do it. It's a nightmare. IANAL either, I'd do as Tim suggested and email the FSF. Moral of the story: If you ever start an open-source project, use an existing, proven license. Otherwise it is not open-source at all. Matthew -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
[ubuntu-uk] [OT] Open Source Project kafuffle...
Off-topic I know, but does anyone have roughly any idea what to do? An open source project which I contribute to (in small amounts, through documentation/support etc), has effectively 'gone' - the lead developer, who owns the website, basically makes the software etc - has disappeared, and answers no messages via email/facebook etc, doesn't pay the website hosting fees (causing the website to show unavailable etc). Effectively, the guy has just vanished into thin air. The software, which is PHP/MySQL forum, is an amazing piece of kit, and I'd hate to see it go to waste. Now, the first thing I knew I had to look at was the licence (don't know the type, not one of the standard ones - I think it's just a generic one - I'll put it on pastebin though as soon as I get the full copy - dev is emailing it over): License: 1. You agree that you will not amend contents of this forum software, repackage it and distribute it to others unless specified elsewhere in this agreement or when consent is given by the developers of this software. I'm assuming that that means that I can't do anything about it? Is there any way around this, as he has given up with no announcements etc? Any help would be appreciated! James -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [OT] Open Source Project kafuffle...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 James Milligan wrote: Off-topic I know, but does anyone have roughly any idea what to do? An open source project which I contribute to (in small amounts, through documentation/support etc), has effectively 'gone' - the lead developer, who owns the website, basically makes the software etc - has disappeared, and answers no messages via email/facebook etc, doesn't pay the website hosting fees (causing the website to show unavailable etc). snip License: 1. You agree that you will not amend contents of this forum software, repackage it and distribute it to others unless specified elsewhere in this agreement or when consent is given by the developers of this software. I'm assuming that that means that I can't do anything about it? Is there any way around this, as he has given up with no announcements etc? Any help would be appreciated! James How much do you contribute to the project? If you contribute code, could you not classify yourself as a developer of the software, and give yourself permission to amend the contents, repackage and distribute it? - -- Thanks Harry Rickards hricka...@l33tmyst.com GPG Key Info: pub 1024R/58449F6F 2009-06-12 uid Harry Rickards (OpenPGP Card) hricka...@l33tmyst.com sub 1024R/D775CCEE 2009-06-12 sub 1024R/9394048C 2009-06-12 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iJwEAQECAAYFAkp8iRgACgkQ+9DWHFhEn2+FngQAkAO0TtV8uob9r7OMWs/pcM99 N7l8n4+68EFnN633c1nn74C2977e8ubd/PUZtVpUKa2hajrDpkijcm+Hk9iIUetB F3jMf5DrftUyFMLYaJzhVqdN1cu/e451yoSdOxVKHqFbkMhu03ntBkSc2bANV4LA jU2UTVjacuXZbE0W5SU= =Ywiy -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [OT] Open Source Project kafuffle...
Harry Rickards wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 James Milligan wrote: Off-topic I know, but does anyone have roughly any idea what to do? An open source project which I contribute to (in small amounts, through documentation/support etc), has effectively 'gone' - the lead developer, who owns the website, basically makes the software etc - has disappeared, and answers no messages via email/facebook etc, doesn't pay the website hosting fees (causing the website to show unavailable etc). snip License: 1. You agree that you will not amend contents of this forum software, repackage it and distribute it to others unless specified elsewhere in this agreement or when consent is given by the developers of this software. I'm assuming that that means that I can't do anything about it? Is there any way around this, as he has given up with no announcements etc? Any help would be appreciated! James How much do you contribute to the project? If you contribute code, could you not classify yourself as a developer of the software, and give yourself permission to amend the contents, repackage and distribute it? - -- Thanks Harry Rickards hricka...@l33tmyst.com Hi Harry, Not a coder by heart - I can modify really small amounts to change the way something works, but I certainly would never class myself as a coder of sorts. Like I said I'm more a front-end man - helping people out with support on the forums (or I did), and I was creating the documentation for the next version of the software. Actually, from you pointing out the last few words, I think that might be the little hole we could use - the coders are (well I've spoken to one who I tracked down on facebook) pretty much behind relaunching the software, so I assume it'd be fine if he came back at us and started having a go. Mind you, if he did reappear, we'd be more than happy to let him back as the lead dev, and go back to how we were. What do you reckon to the legality of that though? I mean it explicitly states 'the developers of the software', which the coders /are/, so certainly if there's a majority, it ought to be right? Thanks for your help. James -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [OT] Open Source Project kafuffle...
On Fri, Aug 07, 2009 at 08:38:21PM +0100, James Milligan wrote: License: 1. You agree that you will not amend contents of this forum software, repackage it and distribute it to others unless specified elsewhere in this agreement or when consent is given by the developers of this software. That doesn't sound very open-source. That looks more like a proprietary licence that is open to the possibility of developers joining from the community. -- Josh Holland j...@joshh.co.uk (key F6067C12) http://joshh.co.uk dutchie on irc.freenode.net http://twitter.com/jshholland http://identi.ca/jshholland signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [OT] Open Source Project kafuffle...
On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 21:12:24 +0100, James Milligan lak...@lake54.com wrote: Harry Rickards wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 James Milligan wrote: Off-topic I know, but does anyone have roughly any idea what to do? An open source project which I contribute to (in small amounts, through documentation/support etc), has effectively 'gone' - the lead developer, who owns the website, basically makes the software etc - has disappeared, and answers no messages via email/facebook etc, doesn't pay the website hosting fees (causing the website to show unavailable etc). snip License: 1. You agree that you will not amend contents of this forum software, repackage it and distribute it to others unless specified elsewhere in this agreement or when consent is given by the developers of this software. I'm assuming that that means that I can't do anything about it? Is there any way around this, as he has given up with no announcements etc? Any help would be appreciated! James How much do you contribute to the project? If you contribute code, could you not classify yourself as a developer of the software, and give yourself permission to amend the contents, repackage and distribute it? - -- Thanks Harry Rickards hricka...@l33tmyst.com Hi Harry, Snip What do you reckon to the legality of that though? I mean it explicitly states 'the developers of the software', which the coders /are/, so certainly if there's a majority, it ought to be right? Thanks for your help. James I'd argue anybody that contributed is a developer. Doesn't matter if you provide code. Beta testing, documentation etc. are part of the development. -- Steve -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [OT] Open Source Project kafuffle...
On Fri, 7 Aug 2009, James Milligan wrote: License: A bit of Googling suggests to me it's likely something called Novaboard, and the scrapped from the cache, the licence is: Please read the following terms conditions carefully as they set out what you can and can not do with this software unless explicity stated by the developers of NovaBoard. 1. You agree that you will not amend contents of this forum software, repackage it and distribute it to others unless specified elsewhere in this agreement or when consent is given by the developers of this software. Basically, not open-source; but it grants the developers infinite freedom. 2. You understand that you are able to create modifications for this software and distribute only the modification code and the instructions to install the modification. Like Pine was for years; you can distribute it, and the patches to let the user combine them, but not ship the two combined. 3. You understand that you are able to create themes and/or custom styles for this software, and that you am hereby given permission to use any of the original images and styles used in the NovaBoard Default folder or default images folder for inclusion in your own themes should you wish to use them. Grammar fail. 4. You agree that you will not remove the link to the NovaBoard website that is included in the footer. BSD four-clause hell. 5. You agree that if you use this forum software for illegal activites (as defined in the state or country in which you reside, or the state or country in which the server that hosts your server resides) NovaBoard and/or it's developers will not be held liable for any legal action taken. Definately DFSG non-free as it restricts uses to only legit activities... If you *are* one of the developers, you appear to be able to give yourself consent under item 1.---and therefore give yourself consent to relicence it under something even vagely open. If you're not one of the developers, then that's another piece of potentially useful proprietary software that just died. IANAL, -Paul -- Why do one side of a triangle when you can do all three. Somewhere, GB. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [OT] Open Source Project kafuffle...
On 7 Aug 2009, at 21:34, Steve yorvik.ubu...@googlemail.com wrote: On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 21:12:24 +0100, James Milligan lak...@lake54.com wrote: Harry Rickards wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 James Milligan wrote: Off-topic I know, but does anyone have roughly any idea what to do? An open source project which I contribute to (in small amounts, through documentation/support etc), has effectively 'gone' - the lead developer, who owns the website, basically makes the software etc - has disappeared, and answers no messages via email/facebook etc, doesn't pay the website hosting fees (causing the website to show unavailable etc). snip License: 1. You agree that you will not amend contents of this forum software, repackage it and distribute it to others unless specified elsewhere in this agreement or when consent is given by the developers of this software. I'm assuming that that means that I can't do anything about it? Is there any way around this, as he has given up with no announcements etc? Any help would be appreciated! James How much do you contribute to the project? If you contribute code, could you not classify yourself as a developer of the software, and give yourself permission to amend the contents, repackage and distribute it? - -- Thanks Harry Rickards hricka...@l33tmyst.com Hi Harry, Snip What do you reckon to the legality of that though? I mean it explicitly states 'the developers of the software', which the coders /are/, so certainly if there's a majority, it ought to be right? Thanks for your help. James I'd argue anybody that contributed is a developer. Doesn't matter if you provide code. Beta testing, documentation etc. are part of the development. -- Steve Thanks for your reply (and to the other one as well) Yea actually on heinsight it isn't open source - I originally thought it was, but obviously not. @Harry - so technically I'm a developer? Cool :-) ill talk to the other developers and work something out. I'll send a message to the PL as well, giving him a week to reply, then we'll start the project under a different name. Thanks for everyone's help, and I'll post a link as soon as the website has been set up. James -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [OT] Open Source Project kafuffle...
On 7 Aug 2009, at 21:42, Paul Sladen ubu...@paul.sladen.org wrote: On Fri, 7 Aug 2009, James Milligan wrote: License: A bit of Googling suggests to me it's likely something called Novaboard, and the scrapped from the cache, the licence is: Please read the following terms conditions carefully as they set out what you can and can not do with this software unless explicity stated by the developers of NovaBoard. 1. You agree that you will not amend contents of this forum software, repackage it and distribute it to others unless specified elsewhere in this agreement or when consent is given by the developers of this software. Basically, not open-source; but it grants the developers infinite freedom. 2. You understand that you are able to create modifications for this software and distribute only the modification code and the instructions to install the modification. Like Pine was for years; you can distribute it, and the patches to let the user combine them, but not ship the two combined. 3. You understand that you are able to create themes and/or custom styles for this software, and that you am hereby given permission to use any of the original images and styles used in the NovaBoard Default folder or default images folder for inclusion in your own themes should you wish to use them. Grammar fail. 4. You agree that you will not remove the link to the NovaBoard website that is included in the footer. BSD four-clause hell. 5. You agree that if you use this forum software for illegal activites (as defined in the state or country in which you reside, or the state or country in which the server that hosts your server resides) NovaBoard and/or it's developers will not be held liable for any legal action taken. Definately DFSG non-free as it restricts uses to only legit activities... If you *are* one of the developers, you appear to be able to give yourself consent under item 1.---and therefore give yourself consent to relicence it under something even vagely open. If you're not one of the developers, then that's another piece of potentially useful proprietary software that just died. IANAL, -Paul -- Why do one side of a triangle when you can do all three. Somewhere, GB. Very nicely worked out - yes, NovaBoard is the software I'm referring to. So effectively I /can/ relicence it to opensource (or the developers etc) and relaunch it? Sounds good enough to me! James -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [OT] Open Source Project kafuffle...
James Milligan wrote: snip License: 1. You agree that you will not amend contents of this forum software, repackage it and distribute it to others unless specified elsewhere in this agreement or when consent is given by the developers of this software. I'm assuming that that means that I can't do anything about it? Is there any way around this, as he has given up with no announcements etc? Any help would be appreciated! James Certainly doesn't sound like an open source license, especially not a Free Software license as you haven't got the freedom to do what you want with it. I'd have said if it was under the GPL you could basically fork the existing code and start a new project out of it, but well with this, not sure. Maybe you might be able to get the developers to agree to release it under some sort of open source license (there's plenty to choose from other than the GPL). Good luck with it anyway. Rob -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [OT] Open Source Project kafuffle...
James Milligan wrote: So effectively I /can/ relicence it to opensource (or the developers etc) and relaunch it? Email licenc...@fsf.org for a sound opinion. Always the best thing to do before doing anything that potentially could cause headaches. :) They'll walk you through things from a legal perspective. Good luck! Tim -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [OT] Open Source Project kafuffle...
On 7 Aug 2009, at 22:51, Tim Dobson li...@tdobson.net wrote: James Milligan wrote: So effectively I /can/ relicence it to opensource (or the developers etc) and relaunch it? Email licenc...@fsf.org for a sound opinion. Always the best thing to do before doing anything that potentially could cause headaches. :) They'll walk you through things from a legal perspective. Good luck! Tim Ok thanks. I did a Whois on the domain and I found his email and phone number. I've sent an email, and If I don't get a reply soon (say wednesday next week) I'll give him a call. Don't want to be intrusive but want to keep this software alive! James -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
