Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu pre-installed computer prices
2009/3/25 Matt Jones m...@mattjones.me.uk: In the past, that opinion was fairly valid. Now, the celerons are actually quite speedy little chips, espescially for an Ubuntu box that is going to run web/openoffice/music all day. As for recommending a Via over the current (Dual core) celerons, they are quite a long way behind in performance terms, and not really any cheaper. I've read this discussion on the benefits or otherwise of Celerons with interest. I certainly would agree that the very first Intel Celerons were a waste of time. But, as far as I'm concerned, the latest Celerons are more than adequate for the average PC user as long they don't plan to run 3D graphics/games. I'm particularly impressed with the staying power of the E1400. I think that the option should be offered to have either LTS or the most current release as an option. For a consumer use, the new software available in a non LTS release does offer benefits over the staid reliability of the LTS. Urgh, thanks guys, now I'm thinking I should offer 8.10 again :-) Perhaps it'd be easier if I just sidestepped this issue for now and skip straight to 9.04 when it arrives! Eddie -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu pre-installed computer prices
Eddie Bernard wrote: 2009/3/25 Matt Jones m...@mattjones.me.uk: In the past, that opinion was fairly valid. Now, the celerons are actually quite speedy little chips, espescially for an Ubuntu box that is going to run web/openoffice/music all day. As for recommending a Via over the current (Dual core) celerons, they are quite a long way behind in performance terms, and not really any cheaper. I've read this discussion on the benefits or otherwise of Celerons with interest. I certainly would agree that the very first Intel Celerons were a waste of time. But, as far as I'm concerned, the latest Celerons are more than adequate for the average PC user as long they don't plan to run 3D graphics/games. I'm particularly impressed with the staying power of the E1400. I think that the option should be offered to have either LTS or the most current release as an option. For a consumer use, the new software available in a non LTS release does offer benefits over the staid reliability of the LTS. Urgh, thanks guys, now I'm thinking I should offer 8.10 again :-) Perhaps it'd be easier if I just sidestepped this issue for now and skip straight to 9.04 when it arrives! My approach is to suggest LTS for users who will use conventional office based activites - (at home or business) I gather there is a non optimum situation in 8.04 re its sound - pulse audio iirc Later releases if its users will appreciate the recent stuff. Depending on the particular release of course. Will attract some users. Keep in mind nominal cost offering end user support too? It will keep you in touch with your customers and fill a need with wider population of real newcomers. good luck -- alan cocks Ubuntu user -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu pre-installed computer prices
Eddie Bernard wrote: Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote: Surely for the average user a LTS version would be better, such as 8.04? Development versions and upgrades could raise severe antagonisms to you. Fair cop, glad you pointed that out. I need to curb my enthusiasm for always wanting to be on the bleeding edge... Eddie (apologies if this doesn't thread correctly, I messed up my mailing list subscription at first...) to offer a contrary view I would always go for the latest released version fully updated. The customer is likely to update it anyway, or think they are not getting the newest and shinyest operating system otherwise. LTS is arguably better for servers or corporate desktop rollouts (if you don't have landscape or any management tools) but for sellability to geeks and others go for new and shiny. If you can launch on April 23rd with Jauny pre-installed you might get a burst of interest. (was thinking of doing that myself) Alan. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu pre-installed computer prices
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 6:44 AM, Alan Bell alan.b...@theopenlearningcentre.com wrote: to offer a contrary view I would always go for the latest released version fully updated. The customer is likely to update it anyway, or think they are not getting the newest and shinyest operating system otherwise. LTS is arguably better for servers or corporate desktop rollouts (if you don't have landscape or any management tools) but for sellability to geeks and others go for new and shiny. If you can launch on April 23rd with Jauny pre-installed you might get a burst of interest. (was thinking of doing that myself) I completely agree with that... as you say, the customer is likely to upgrade anyway and that has the potential to break the thing... better to install the latest release, fully test it to ensure it works and then you know that they have 6 months of relatively plain sailing at least... we had that thread a week or two ago with Rowan and his networking which was caused by a supplier having to install non-standard drivers due to something (the kernel version?) in 8.04... that's after less than 12 months... 8.04 will cease to be supported (desktop) in April 2011, 9.04 will cease to be supported in October 2010... we're getting to the point here where there isn't actually a great deal of difference. Sean -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu pre-installed computer prices
On Thu, 2009-03-26 at 07:45 +, Sean Miller wrote: On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 6:44 AM, Alan Bell alan.b...@theopenlearningcentre.com wrote: to offer a contrary view I would always go for the latest released version fully updated. The customer is likely to update it anyway, or think they are not getting the newest and shinyest operating system otherwise. LTS is arguably better for servers or corporate desktop rollouts (if you don't have landscape or any management tools) but for sellability to geeks and others go for new and shiny. If you can launch on April 23rd with Jauny pre-installed you might get a burst of interest. (was thinking of doing that myself) I completely agree with that... as you say, the customer is likely to upgrade anyway and that has the potential to break the thing... better to install the latest release, fully test it to ensure it works and then you know that they have 6 months of relatively plain sailing at least... we had that thread a week or two ago with Rowan and his networking which was caused by a supplier having to install non-standard drivers due to something (the kernel version?) in 8.04... that's after less than 12 months... 8.04 will cease to be supported (desktop) in April 2011, 9.04 will cease to be supported in October 2010... we're getting to the point here where there isn't actually a great deal of difference. Sean Looking at the hardware, you're looking at about 110-130 plus 20 for national delivery plus a bit for you so lets say 180 a unit-ish. As for everything else Mr Pope is correct get onto Canonical for permission to use the ubuntu branding if nothing else. If I recall you have to send a sample machine in to canonical but again chase that up with them after all they know. -- Seek That Thy Might Know http://www.davmor2.co.uk signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu pre-installed computer prices
Liam Proven wrote: 2009/3/25 Eddie Bernard edd...@gmail.com: I'm looking to offer a base unit, 2GHz dual core Celeron (E1400) with 2GB DDR2 PC2-6400 RAM, and a 150GB SATA hdd. Graphics, sound and ethernet are onboard. My only comment - apart from to agree with those who commend that you use the LTS version - would be this: I would never buy a Celeron and I tell everyone, friends and clients, to avoid them. They are nasty, crippled devices and anything with a Celery in it is probably rubbish, in my not-at-all-humble opinion. I'd rather have a cheap low-end but full-spec AMD or Via chip than a Celeron. Yes, I know it's possible to replace a Celeron with a full-spec chip, but almost nobody ever does it's almost never an economical upgrade. Actually the dual core Celerons are pretty quick. They are based on the Core 2 Duo core with just a smaller cache. To be honest I would presume that a system for about £200 would not be aimed at a power user and with some people finding that a single core Atom at 1.6GHz does the job (heck, a Duron 1400 with 512MB Ram I built the other day is fine for web browsing) then a Celeron Dual Core would probably be fine. Saying that though, I'd rather have a Core 2 based Celeron Dual Core or Pentium Dual Core rather than the older Pentium 4 Prescott based Celeron D (my kids PC has one in and while it's fine for what they want and pretty quick at 3.33GHz it's really power hungry and runs hot). I do agree about the AMD chips though, if you can get one cheap enough and a decent AM2+ board then you could at a later date drop in an AM2 (and I believe AM3) Phenom II onto the board (although for best performance you really need a board which can support the faster HT speeds of the Phenom which some of the cheaper AM2+ boards don't support). Rob -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu pre-installed computer prices
2009/3/26 Dave Morley davm...@davmor2.co.uk: Looking at the hardware, you're looking at about 110-130 plus 20 for national delivery plus a bit for you so lets say 180 a unit-ish. You're in the area I'm looking at... but my raw costs are higher than 130, and I thought I'd sourced everything pretty cheaply. If you can show me how you came to that calculation I'd be very interested. I'm buying a case (450W PSU included), the E1400, a socket 775 mobo w/ onboard graphics and sound, a 160GB SATA(II) 7200rpm hdd, 2GB (2 x 1GB) DDR2 800MHz RAM, and a CD/DVD writer/rewriter. As for everything else Mr Pope is correct get onto Canonical for permission to use the ubuntu branding if nothing else. If I recall you have to send a sample machine in to canonical but again chase that up with them after all they know. I contacted them yesterday and am awaiting their response. Cheers Eddie -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu pre-installed computer prices
Liam Proven wrote: 2009/3/25 Matt Jones m...@mattjones.me.uk: In the past, that opinion was fairly valid. Now, the celerons are actually quite speedy little chips, espescially for an Ubuntu box that is going to run web/openoffice/music all day. As for recommending a Via over the current (Dual core) celerons, they are quite a long way behind in performance terms, and not really any cheaper. I am aware that the Via Nano is not as powerful, although it compares very well to the Intel Atom, but then, the Nano uses a *lot* less power than a Celeron so the overall running cost would be somewhat lower. Actually, tests done by Tom's Hardware Guide suggest that overall the Core 2 is a more efficient chip than the Atom. It's just a case of paring it with the right hardware. http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-atom-efficiency,2069.html But still, seriously object to the pricing model of producing crippled chips with tiny L2 caches and selling them cheap. If they can make a profit on the crippled model, they could make one on selling the premium product with the full-sized cache for a lot less. There is a balance to be had, and that balancing point is called a fair price. Instead, we get cheap crippled chips - the Celerons, Pentium chips, AMD's old Durons and so on - and price-inflated professional or performance chips for power users. From what I understand these 'crippled' chips are basically the higher end chips which don't at full spec, for instance a Celeron Dual Core could well be a Core 2 Duo which a section of cache on doesn't work. Rather than just chuck the chip away they disable some of the cache and sell it on as a cheaper part. AMD do the same with the Phenom X3 (and newer Phenom core based Athlon X2's) where they disable a faulty core and sell them as a slightly cheaper chip. To be honest considering what sort of financial state AMD are in at the moment they need to do this to recoup some of the costs and pay off some of the debts. There is also the fact that if you're so inclined it is possible to overclock some of these chips (especially the Celeron Dual Core and Pentium Dual Core) to much faster speeds. I managed to get about 3GHz from my 1.8GHz Pentium Dual Core, sods law though the power saving driver in Linux clocked it back to it's original speed. This is a deliberate pricing model; in the industry, it's called something like segmented marketing and catching the low end. I call it screwing your customers. Which is one reason I prefer to deal with companies who don't play those games. The AMD tactic of selling last year's model cheap and calling it a Sempron or something was much more honest and fair, and indeed I am typing on an AMD Athlon box now. Technically last year's model would be the Athlon X2 which they are still selling as an Athlon X2, albeit fairly cheap although I'm yet to see any Sempron X2's in the shops (IIRC they do sell them in very small quantities overseas). Alas, since their 64-bit leap, AMD have no new tricks to pull and the CPU high end now belongs completely to Intel. It's a damned shame. Actually the Phenom II is starting to claw back some of the performance. Considering if you have an AM2+ board you can drop in a Phenom II X4 straight onto the board that is a pretty good performance upgrade especially compared to the new Core i7 which needs a new board and DDR3 memory (and if I'm correct they are replacing the socket on the Core i7 again later on this year). If you were to stick an AM3 CPU on an AM2+ board then you have extra future proofing as you can upgrade to an AM3 board and DDR3 memory when the prices come down. Rob -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu pre-installed computer prices
Eddie Bernard wrote: 2009/3/25 Jamie Bennett ja...@linuxuk.org: Steve Cook wrote: Here's your competition http://efficientpc.co.uk/ The Wraith, same system with 2gb of ram - £232.61. Nice looking little system there. Great - I can definitely beat that and by some way. I can't tell whether this machine at this price includes a CD/DVD rewriter, I forgot to mention earlier that my machine does contain one of those. Any more? :-) Who are your end user target population? I regularly display (infopoint -information re foss and ubuntu) at a local computer fair. The attenders at the computer fairs are mostly well informed PC users and I talk to many who want to and are trying (ubuntu) initially. However they still struggle with many basic questions. But they are installing it themselves into unknown machines. Unfortunately they are not very likely to yet be users of discussion forums such as this one. Some are very keen to escape from windows. What comes to my mind is that on occasions when I have provided a pre installed machine to close friends, it is the general support and occasional detailed support from me which is of great value, more than the machine itself. These friends are not people who would be comfortable with, say, this list. But they would probably pay for suitable personal support over time. If you are selling hardware with known linux suitability then well seasoned users like myself might be certainly interested, just to know that certain hardware is ubuntu suitable and get some information and subsequent (list based?) support hopefully. However, I would be a very different type of customer to the elderly lady I met on a cruise up the norwegian coast who was set on buying an Asus eee (901 I think) after seeing them in a newspaper report, and she would probably never want to install anything herself. As you say, if you intend to compete on hardware costs alone there is a lot of competition. Less competition and more welcomed market possibly if you consider certain levels of information/support. -- alan cocks Ubuntu user. No viruses were harmed in sending this message. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu pre-installed computer prices
--- On Thu, 26/3/09, Eddie Bernard edd...@gmail.com wrote: From: Eddie Bernard edd...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu pre-installed computer prices To: British Ubuntu Talk ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com Date: Thursday, 26 March, 2009, 9:52 AM 2009/3/26 Dave Morley davm...@davmor2.co.uk: Looking at the hardware, you're looking at about 110-130 plus 20 for national delivery plus a bit for you so lets say 180 a unit-ish. You're in the area I'm looking at... but my raw costs are higher than 130, and I thought I'd sourced everything pretty cheaply. If you can show me how you came to that calculation I'd be very interested. I'm buying a case (450W PSU included), the E1400, a socket 775 mobo w/ onboard graphics and sound, a 160GB SATA(II) 7200rpm hdd, 2GB (2 x 1GB) DDR2 800MHz RAM, and a CD/DVD writer/rewriter. As for everything else Mr Pope is correct get onto Canonical for permission to use the ubuntu branding if nothing else. If I recall you have to send a sample machine in to canonical but again chase that up with them after all they know. I contacted them yesterday and am awaiting their response. Cheers Eddie -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
[ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu pre-installed computer prices
Good morning everyone First off, a declaration of interest, I'm in business selling desktop PCs. However, to avoid accusations of spamming, I won't give further details (unless you actually want them!) My reason for contacting you all is a sort of market research, if you'll be kind enough to allow that. I am interested in your opinion on pricing for a computer with Ubuntu pre-installed, as it's a market I am currently looking into. I'm looking to offer a base unit, 2GHz dual core Celeron (E1400) with 2GB DDR2 PC2-6400 RAM, and a 150GB SATA hdd. Graphics, sound and ethernet are onboard. Like I said, I would install Ubuntu 8.10 (and, of course, ubuntu 9.04 when it's released!) and run through the update utility. I understand there are issues regarding selling a Ubuntu PC with non-free applications pre-installed (e.g. medibuntu) so I assume I will have to leave them off, but perhaps give advice to those who need it. I have a price in mind for this machine (including UK mainland delivery) - but I'm curious to hear what other people think might be a fair price for it. If you can help me I'd really appreciate it. If not, I apologise for transgressing! Thank you for your time Eddie -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu pre-installed computer prices
Eddie Bernard edd...@gmail.com wrote: Good morning everyone First off, a declaration of interest, I'm in business selling desktop PCs. However, to avoid accusations of spamming, I won't give further details (unless you actually want them!) My reason for contacting you all is a sort of market research, if you'll be kind enough to allow that. I am interested in your opinion on pricing for a computer with Ubuntu pre-installed, as it's a market I am currently looking into. I'm looking to offer a base unit, 2GHz dual core Celeron (E1400) with 2GB DDR2 PC2-6400 RAM, and a 150GB SATA hdd. Graphics, sound and ethernet are onboard. Like I said, I would install Ubuntu 8.10 Why? Surely for the average user a LTS version would be better, such as 8.04? Development versions and upgrades could raise severe antagonisms to you. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu pre-installed computer prices
On 25/03/2009 10:05, Eddie Bernard wrote: Good morning everyone First off, a declaration of interest, I'm in business selling desktop PCs. However, to avoid accusations of spamming, I won't give further details (unless you actually want them!) My reason for contacting you all is a sort of market research, if you'll be kind enough to allow that. I am interested in your opinion on pricing for a computer with Ubuntu pre-installed, as it's a market I am currently looking into. I'm looking to offer a base unit, 2GHz dual core Celeron (E1400) with 2GB DDR2 PC2-6400 RAM, and a 150GB SATA hdd. Graphics, sound and ethernet are onboard. Like I said, I would install Ubuntu 8.10 (and, of course, ubuntu 9.04 when it's released!) and run through the update utility. I understand there are issues regarding selling a Ubuntu PC with non-free applications pre-installed (e.g. medibuntu) so I assume I will have to leave them off, but perhaps give advice to those who need it. I have a price in mind for this machine (including UK mainland delivery) - but I'm curious to hear what other people think might be a fair price for it. If you can help me I'd really appreciate it. If not, I apologise for transgressing! Thank you for your time Eddie Um... as far as I know there aren't any restrictions on shipping Non-Free codecs in this country (I believe there are some issues in the states). Going on that spec I'd say maybe £250 to £300 would be fairly reasonable (considering you'd need to make a bit of money on it). Rob -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu pre-installed computer prices
Rob Beard wrote: I'm looking to offer a base unit, 2GHz dual core Celeron (E1400) with 2GB DDR2 PC2-6400 RAM, and a 150GB SATA hdd. Graphics, sound and ethernet are onboard. Like I said, I would install Ubuntu 8.10 (and, of course, ubuntu 9.04 when it's released!) and run through the update utility. I understand there are issues regarding selling a Ubuntu PC with non-free applications pre-installed (e.g. medibuntu) so I assume I will have to leave them off, but perhaps give advice to those who need it. I have a price in mind for this machine (including UK mainland delivery) - but I'm curious to hear what other people think might be a fair price for it. If you can help me I'd really appreciate it. If not, I apologise for transgressing! Thank you for your time Eddie Um... as far as I know there aren't any restrictions on shipping Non-Free codecs in this country (I believe there are some issues in the states). Going on that spec I'd say maybe £250 to £300 would be fairly reasonable (considering you'd need to make a bit of money on it). Let be honest though. A slightly higher spec model (250gb disk) with Vista will set you back £228.34 delivered (http://www.ebuyer.com/product/159369) so without the licence of Vista one would expect a slightly lower price. Also the Dell offers that pop up now and again blow this price out of the water. I would like to see this kind of spec at the £200 mark, anything much above and I think you could be struggling. Rob Regards, Jamie -- http://www.linuxuk.org -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu pre-installed computer prices
On 25/03/2009 10:24, Jamie Bennett wrote: Rob Beard wrote: I'm looking to offer a base unit, 2GHz dual core Celeron (E1400) with 2GB DDR2 PC2-6400 RAM, and a 150GB SATA hdd. Graphics, sound and ethernet are onboard. Like I said, I would install Ubuntu 8.10 (and, of course, ubuntu 9.04 when it's released!) and run through the update utility. I understand there are issues regarding selling a Ubuntu PC with non-free applications pre-installed (e.g. medibuntu) so I assume I will have to leave them off, but perhaps give advice to those who need it. I have a price in mind for this machine (including UK mainland delivery) - but I'm curious to hear what other people think might be a fair price for it. If you can help me I'd really appreciate it. If not, I apologise for transgressing! Thank you for your time Eddie Um... as far as I know there aren't any restrictions on shipping Non-Free codecs in this country (I believe there are some issues in the states). Going on that spec I'd say maybe £250 to £300 would be fairly reasonable (considering you'd need to make a bit of money on it). Let be honest though. A slightly higher spec model (250gb disk) with Vista will set you back £228.34 delivered (http://www.ebuyer.com/product/159369) so without the licence of Vista one would expect a slightly lower price. Also the Dell offers that pop up now and again blow this price out of the water. I would like to see this kind of spec at the £200 mark, anything much above and I think you could be struggling. But eBuyer have some amazing buying power (their trade prices what they pay are even cheaper than their online prices - I sure do miss that when I worked at eBuyer a couple of years back) and again Dell have serious buying power too. I doubt they'd be shelling out £60 for a copy of Windows. To give a comparison, I built a Phenom X4 system with 2GB Ram, 250GB hard drive (onboard video and sound) for about £200 all in buying bits from Aria. I made about £15 on the system when I sold it on which really didn't cover the build and testing time I spent on it. There doesn't seem to be any margins on PCs these days unless you can either offer some added value (such as on-site support if you're selling PCs locally) or have the buying power to buy multiple components at cheap prices. Rob -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu pre-installed computer prices
Hi Eddie, I don't believe you're breaking any rules as such on this mailing list. I personally think we should foster and encourage UK based companies/individuals who seek to supply Ubuntu based computers. I'd like to see more of this kind of discussion. 2009/3/25 Eddie Bernard edd...@gmail.com: My reason for contacting you all is a sort of market research, if you'll be kind enough to allow that. I am interested in your opinion on pricing for a computer with Ubuntu pre-installed, as it's a market I am currently looking into. I would recommend you contact the OEM Team at Canonical. There are some restrictions on the use of the Ubuntu brand when selling machines. Rather than me misquote them I'd suggest you contact them directly. I'm looking to offer a base unit, 2GHz dual core Celeron (E1400) with 2GB DDR2 PC2-6400 RAM, and a 150GB SATA hdd. Graphics, sound and ethernet are onboard. Like I said, I would install Ubuntu 8.10 (and, of course, ubuntu 9.04 when it's released!) and run through the update utility. I understand there are issues regarding selling a Ubuntu PC with non-free applications pre-installed (e.g. medibuntu) so I assume I will have to leave them off, but perhaps give advice to those who need it. As I understand it, if you want to officially sell Ubuntu branded computers, you will have to omit the medibuntu repository from being pre-configured. I believe you can (for a fee to Canonical) license some codecs which you _can_ supply with the computers you deliver. But as I said, contact Canonical for the full details. Cheers, Al. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu pre-installed computer prices
Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote: Surely for the average user a LTS version would be better, such as 8.04? Development versions and upgrades could raise severe antagonisms to you. Fair cop, glad you pointed that out. I need to curb my enthusiasm for always wanting to be on the bleeding edge... Eddie (apologies if this doesn't thread correctly, I messed up my mailing list subscription at first...) -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu pre-installed computer prices
2009/3/25 Alan Pope a...@popey.com: Hi Eddie, I don't believe you're breaking any rules as such on this mailing list. I personally think we should foster and encourage UK based companies/individuals who seek to supply Ubuntu based computers. I'd like to see more of this kind of discussion. Hi Alan, and thanks for the welcome. I agree; I'm very impressed with Ubuntu and I would like to see more retailers giving it as a genuine option. Somehow we have to get the word out to encourage take up... I would recommend you contact the OEM Team at Canonical. There are some restrictions on the use of the Ubuntu brand when selling machines. Rather than me misquote them I'd suggest you contact them directly. Cheers for the heads up. I'm just reading their website now... I assume I would need to register for their system builder programme. I don't suppose you know if that costs money? I understand there are issues regarding selling a Ubuntu PC with non-free applications pre-installed (e.g. medibuntu) so I assume I will have to leave them off, but perhaps give advice to those who need it. As I understand it, if you want to officially sell Ubuntu branded computers, you will have to omit the medibuntu repository from being pre-configured. I believe you can (for a fee to Canonical) license some codecs which you _can_ supply with the computers you deliver. But as I said, contact Canonical for the full details. That's interesting, as, to be honest, I think in order to convince people that Ubuntu is a serious and easy-to-use alternative to Windows, ideally the system needs to be able to just work out the box. If there are ways to do that then this can only be a good thing. Will definitely look into that. Thanks for your replies - all good stuff. Eddie -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu pre-installed computer prices
2009/3/25 Eddie Bernard edd...@gmail.com: Cheers for the heads up. I'm just reading their website now... I assume I would need to register for their system builder programme. I don't suppose you know if that costs money? You'd need to check with them, but I believe it does cost per-pc sold, a little more if you include the codecs. Again, confirm with them. That's interesting, as, to be honest, I think in order to convince people that Ubuntu is a serious and easy-to-use alternative to Windows, ideally the system needs to be able to just work out the box. If there are ways to do that then this can only be a good thing. Will definitely look into that. I'm sure people can come up with creative solutions for that :) Cheers, Al. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu pre-installed computer prices
2009/3/25 Rob Beard r...@esdelle.co.uk: On 25/03/2009 10:24, Jamie Bennett wrote: Rob Beard wrote: I'm looking to offer a base unit, 2GHz dual core Celeron (E1400) with 2GB DDR2 PC2-6400 RAM, and a 150GB SATA hdd. Graphics, sound and ethernet are onboard. Like I said, I would install Ubuntu 8.10 (and, of course, ubuntu 9.04 when it's released!) and run through the update utility. I understand there are issues regarding selling a Ubuntu PC with non-free applications pre-installed (e.g. medibuntu) so I assume I will have to leave them off, but perhaps give advice to those who need it. Going on that spec I'd say maybe £250 to £300 would be fairly reasonable (considering you'd need to make a bit of money on it). I'd be delighted if I could get away with that; either way though it's interesting you started the bidding, as it were, at a higher point than I anticipated. Which is a good sign, hopefully. Let be honest though. A slightly higher spec model (250gb disk) with Vista will set you back £228.34 delivered (http://www.ebuyer.com/product/159369) so without the licence of Vista one would expect a slightly lower price. Also the Dell offers that pop up now and again blow this price out of the water. Do you think I might do better offering this machine with a 250GB drive? Just wondering how much space a customer might need these days... You're right, of course. It's exactly that machine you have referred to that makes me nervous about trying to sell an Ubuntu desktop (at my suggested spec) at anything above £230. To give a comparison, I built a Phenom X4 system with 2GB Ram, 250GB hard drive (onboard video and sound) for about £200 all in buying bits from Aria. I made about £15 on the system when I sold it on which really didn't cover the build and testing time I spent on it. I think the market conditions are pretty difficult at the moment, too. Understandably, perhaps, but then again I would have thought if anything the lower end of the market would be attracting more customers trying to get a cheap PC. Or maybe people just aren't buying PCs at all right now. I know eBay is no great source of information on this, but if you look at the completed listings in the desktop section, you'll see dozens of PCs every day going unsold. There doesn't seem to be any margins on PCs these days unless you can either offer some added value (such as on-site support if you're selling PCs locally) or have the buying power to buy multiple components at cheap prices. Yes, sadly... it's extremely difficult to compete without operating on razor thin margins. But it is doable. I think the key is that if you're making the same system again and again, you save time both on building and testing, as you know if it worked the first and second time, it's probably going to work on every subsequent iteration. That's where I'm at at the moment - and if I can get the necessary demand, I can place larger orders, and, fingers crossed, it would escalate from there. Cheers Ed -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu pre-installed computer prices
On 25/03/2009 11:47, Eddie Bernard wrote: 2009/3/25 Rob Beardr...@esdelle.co.uk: On 25/03/2009 10:24, Jamie Bennett wrote: Rob Beard wrote: I'm looking to offer a base unit, 2GHz dual core Celeron (E1400) with 2GB DDR2 PC2-6400 RAM, and a 150GB SATA hdd. Graphics, sound and ethernet are onboard. Like I said, I would install Ubuntu 8.10 (and, of course, ubuntu 9.04 when it's released!) and run through the update utility. I understand there are issues regarding selling a Ubuntu PC with non-free applications pre-installed (e.g. medibuntu) so I assume I will have to leave them off, but perhaps give advice to those who need it. Going on that spec I'd say maybe £250 to £300 would be fairly reasonable (considering you'd need to make a bit of money on it). I'd be delighted if I could get away with that; either way though it's interesting you started the bidding, as it were, at a higher point than I anticipated. Which is a good sign, hopefully. Let be honest though. A slightly higher spec model (250gb disk) with Vista will set you back £228.34 delivered (http://www.ebuyer.com/product/159369) so without the licence of Vista one would expect a slightly lower price. Also the Dell offers that pop up now and again blow this price out of the water. Do you think I might do better offering this machine with a 250GB drive? Just wondering how much space a customer might need these days... You're right, of course. It's exactly that machine you have referred to that makes me nervous about trying to sell an Ubuntu desktop (at my suggested spec) at anything above £230. You might be worth offering a 250GB drive if the cost difference isn't that much. You'd be surprised these days how much space people use. Okay lots of people are different (I'm a heavy storage space user) but some people might want to import a CD collection or store a load of photos on their PC. To give a comparison, I built a Phenom X4 system with 2GB Ram, 250GB hard drive (onboard video and sound) for about £200 all in buying bits from Aria. I made about £15 on the system when I sold it on which really didn't cover the build and testing time I spent on it. I think the market conditions are pretty difficult at the moment, too. Understandably, perhaps, but then again I would have thought if anything the lower end of the market would be attracting more customers trying to get a cheap PC. Or maybe people just aren't buying PCs at all right now. I know eBay is no great source of information on this, but if you look at the completed listings in the desktop section, you'll see dozens of PCs every day going unsold. Yep, I think a lot of people these days want laptops. For some I think they just want laptops for the status symbol they think it carries (they don't take into account that they may be buying a really low spec over priced system) where as others will make proper use of having a portable machine. Then again there are some people who are buying PCs, just doesn't seem to be many. I guess it's got to the stage that a couple of year old PC will probably do the job just as well. Of course it probably doesn't help with the problems with the economy at the moment. There doesn't seem to be any margins on PCs these days unless you can either offer some added value (such as on-site support if you're selling PCs locally) or have the buying power to buy multiple components at cheap prices. Yes, sadly... it's extremely difficult to compete without operating on razor thin margins. But it is doable. I think the key is that if you're making the same system again and again, you save time both on building and testing, as you know if it worked the first and second time, it's probably going to work on every subsequent iteration. That's where I'm at at the moment - and if I can get the necessary demand, I can place larger orders, and, fingers crossed, it would escalate from there. Yep that does help. I do build PCs for clients but they tend to be more one off's. I've found I make more profit selling hardware upgrades to existing machines and replacing faulty components. Doesn't help when you're selling Windows machines either and having to cost in £60 for Windows. A couple of local companies got round this by providing pirate copies of software but got caught out by Microsoft. I wouldn't be surprised too if there is some of this going on with eBay (I mean, for starters I've seen some 2GHz dual core PCs listed as being 4GHz!). I'd say good luck with it anyway. Maybe something else you could consider if you can get a supply of old machines is to try providing some computers to local non-profit organisations running LTSP, I did this with the Exwick Community Centre in Exeter (luckily they got a grant to cover the server costs) and it helped spread the word a bit about Ubuntu. Rob --
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu pre-installed computer prices
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Eddie Bernard wrote: Good morning everyone I have a price in mind for this machine (including UK mainland delivery) - but I'm curious to hear what other people think might be a fair price for it. Here’s your competition http://efficientpc.co.uk/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAknKIEYACgkQICATF4lwn1rGfACgv1AE3+Y0BX+nSLpkNeQ9Ln7w gpAAnjrWAB9rDlB57HHiOTDLZtTMDGio =FWZ3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu pre-installed computer prices
Steve Cook wrote: Heres your competition http://efficientpc.co.uk/ The Wraith, same system with 2gb of ram - £232.61. Nice looking little system there. Regards, Jamie -- http://www.linuxuk.org -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu pre-installed computer prices
2009/3/25 Jamie Bennett ja...@linuxuk.org: Steve Cook wrote: Here's your competition http://efficientpc.co.uk/ The Wraith, same system with 2gb of ram - Ł232.61. Nice looking little system there. Great - I can definitely beat that and by some way. I can't tell whether this machine at this price includes a CD/DVD rewriter, I forgot to mention earlier that my machine does contain one of those. Any more? :-) Eddie -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu pre-installed computer prices
Eddie Bernard wrote: I think the market conditions are pretty difficult at the moment, too. Understandably, perhaps, but then again I would have thought if anything the lower end of the market would be attracting more customers trying to get a cheap PC. Or maybe people just aren't buying PCs at all right now. I know eBay is no great source of information on this, but if you look at the completed listings in the desktop section, you'll see dozens of PCs every day going unsold. I have enough computers, not buying any more for a while, but I would love a linux-based version of Apple's Time Capsule. Something *really* simple, that requires little or no set up, just plug it in and let it back everything up. Even better if it had a broadband modem built in (Time Capsule is missing this, and El Reg complained: http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/03/23/review_networking_wireless_router_apple_time_capsule/ ) I might also pay for a media centre, for similar plug n play reasons: building this stuff is lots of fun, but also time consuming. Apple's attraction is the ease of use, but the price (sometimes) and the lock-in (iTunes, Mail.app, both limited and hacker-unfriendly) can be a deal breaker. £0.02 John -- John Levin http://www.technolalia.org/blog/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu pre-installed computer prices
2009/3/25 Rob Beard r...@esdelle.co.uk: On 25/03/2009 11:47, Eddie Bernard wrote: Do you think I might do better offering this machine with a 250GB drive? Just wondering how much space a customer might need these days... You might be worth offering a 250GB drive if the cost difference isn't that much. You'd be surprised these days how much space people use. Okay lots of people are different (I'm a heavy storage space user) but some people might want to import a CD collection or store a load of photos on their PC. Thanks for that. Yes... habits are certainly changing these days (it's now almost nothing to want to download several gigabytes off bittorrent) and the cheapness of storage space means it's probably a worthwhile thing to have more space. Yep, I think a lot of people these days want laptops. For some I think they just want laptops for the status symbol they think it carries (they don't take into account that they may be buying a really low spec over priced system) where as others will make proper use of having a portable machine. The thing I don't like about laptops is the fairly obvious point that if you want to buy a new one you have no choice but to buy a new monitor as well, which seems a terrible waste of money and resources from an environmental perspective. But yes, I have definitely noticed more enquiries about laptops in the past year, particularly the netbooks. Trouble is for people like me they just aren't doable as a small retailer. Yes, sadly... it's extremely difficult to compete without operating on razor thin margins. But it is doable. I think the key is that if you're making the same system again and again, you save time both on building and testing, as you know if it worked the first and second time, it's probably going to work on every subsequent iteration. That's where I'm at at the moment - and if I can get the necessary demand, I can place larger orders, and, fingers crossed, it would escalate from there. Yep that does help. I do build PCs for clients but they tend to be more one off's. I've found I make more profit selling hardware upgrades to existing machines and replacing faulty components. Definitely. I think the reason is simple in that with upgrades, especially if you do the work on site, you get to charge for a fairer reflection of the time spent doing it. Doesn't help when you're selling Windows machines either and having to cost in £60 for Windows. A couple of local companies got round this by providing pirate copies of software but got caught out by Microsoft. I wouldn't be surprised too if there is some of this going on with eBay For sure. The Windows Problem is one I struggle with too. Whenever I do a reformat and reinstall project I'm always delighted when a customer tells me they still have the original Windows disc when they bought the computer. Saves having to shock people with a £60 price tag before I've even begun... But maybe for small businesses like ours being open with the price differential will encourage more people to dip their toe in the Ubuntu world. It doesn't help when you see the likes of Dell selling Ubuntu desktops for either the same or more than a Windows PC. (I mean, for starters I've seen some 2GHz dual core PCs listed as being 4GHz!). I was wondering where this rather odd standard has come from. It's a very bad habit... and it's only getting worse when quad-core machines are being sold as 9GHz and daft things like that. Makes it very difficult to compete honestly when you're being fair and saying my machine is 2GHz dual core when others are ramping their specs up for added attention. I'd say good luck with it anyway. Maybe something else you could consider if you can get a supply of old machines is to try providing some computers to local non-profit organisations running LTSP, I did this with the Exwick Community Centre in Exeter (luckily they got a grant to cover the server costs) and it helped spread the word a bit about Ubuntu. That's a very interesting idea - might steal it! I'm about to start a contract working for a very small local school... and I've always wanted an excuse to give Edubuntu a twirl. I might be able to try that as well. Thanks for the well wishes. All the same to you. Eddie -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu pre-installed computer prices
Eddie Bernard wrote: 2009/3/25 Jamie Bennett ja...@linuxuk.org: Steve Cook wrote: Here's your competition http://efficientpc.co.uk/ The Wraith, same system with 2gb of ram - Ł232.61. Nice looking little system there. Great - I can definitely beat that and by some way. I can't tell whether this machine at this price includes a CD/DVD rewriter, I forgot to mention earlier that my machine does contain one of those. Any more? :-) Eddie https://secure.dnuk.com/store/desktops.php -- Regards Ted Wager g3tpi High Peak UK Using Ubuntu Jaunty Linux -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu pre-installed computer prices
Fantastic to see any entry to the market with a non-windows PC. At the moment if we want to buy a desktop PC there are only a couple of places in the UK we can get one without Windows. The commodity desktop PC market is not a particularly nice place to be right now. The big boys appear to be playing a game of chicken with their prices attempting to put each other out of business I think. The problem is that if you offer a package that can be compared directly to a bargain Dell then you will always look expensive even though the Dell includes a boat anchor of a legacy operating system. We think the trick is to be uncomparable. We are in the process of launching a range of little servers that come with one of a range of interesting applications pre-installed and a days on-site installation and training plus remote backup and replacement. It is an inexpensive way to start using something like OpenERP or Moodle. For smaller businesses it will cope just fine for production use, for the bigger business it is an ideal pilot or proof of concept. We are not really targeting desktop users with this even though the hardware is basically a desktop PC. It is just too competitive. More details on our stuff here http://www.theopenlearningcentre.com/libertus.html So my advice is add some value and bundle it all together with a good overall price tag. That could be training, documentation, installation etc. This is a little tricky with a desktop though. Maybe have a minimum order quantity of 10 and include a training class for 10 people. A minimum order quantity sounds a bit mad - you will be turning away sales, but you will have to think a little sideways or you will be playing the same game as the big boys and your money runs out before theirs does! Alan. Eddie Bernard wrote: Good morning everyone First off, a declaration of interest, I'm in business selling desktop PCs. However, to avoid accusations of spamming, I won't give further details (unless you actually want them!) My reason for contacting you all is a sort of market research, if you'll be kind enough to allow that. I am interested in your opinion on pricing for a computer with Ubuntu pre-installed, as it's a market I am currently looking into. I'm looking to offer a base unit, 2GHz dual core Celeron (E1400) with 2GB DDR2 PC2-6400 RAM, and a 150GB SATA hdd. Graphics, sound and ethernet are onboard. Like I said, I would install Ubuntu 8.10 (and, of course, ubuntu 9.04 when it's released!) and run through the update utility. I understand there are issues regarding selling a Ubuntu PC with non-free applications pre-installed (e.g. medibuntu) so I assume I will have to leave them off, but perhaps give advice to those who need it. I have a price in mind for this machine (including UK mainland delivery) - but I'm curious to hear what other people think might be a fair price for it. If you can help me I'd really appreciate it. If not, I apologise for transgressing! Thank you for your time Eddie -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu pre-installed computer prices
2009/3/25 Matt Jones m...@mattjones.me.uk: In the past, that opinion was fairly valid. Now, the celerons are actually quite speedy little chips, espescially for an Ubuntu box that is going to run web/openoffice/music all day. As for recommending a Via over the current (Dual core) celerons, they are quite a long way behind in performance terms, and not really any cheaper. I am aware that the Via Nano is not as powerful, although it compares very well to the Intel Atom, but then, the Nano uses a *lot* less power than a Celeron so the overall running cost would be somewhat lower. But still, seriously object to the pricing model of producing crippled chips with tiny L2 caches and selling them cheap. If they can make a profit on the crippled model, they could make one on selling the premium product with the full-sized cache for a lot less. There is a balance to be had, and that balancing point is called a fair price. Instead, we get cheap crippled chips - the Celerons, Pentium chips, AMD's old Durons and so on - and price-inflated professional or performance chips for power users. This is a deliberate pricing model; in the industry, it's called something like segmented marketing and catching the low end. I call it screwing your customers. Which is one reason I prefer to deal with companies who don't play those games. The AMD tactic of selling last year's model cheap and calling it a Sempron or something was much more honest and fair, and indeed I am typing on an AMD Athlon box now. Alas, since their 64-bit leap, AMD have no new tricks to pull and the CPU high end now belongs completely to Intel. It's a damned shame. I think that the option should be offered to have either LTS or the most current release as an option. For a consumer use, the new software available in a non LTS release does offer benefits over the staid reliability of the LTS. I suspect that anyone who would know the difference would probably build or buy a bargain-basement PC themselves and download install their own copy. But I'd be happy to be proved wrong. -- Liam Proven • Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lpro...@gmail.com Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 • Fax: + 44 870-9151419 AOL/AIM/iChat/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven • LiveJournal/Twitter: lproven MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • ICQ: 73187508 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu pre-installed computer prices
In the past, that opinion was fairly valid. Now, the celerons are actually quite speedy little chips, espescially for an Ubuntu box that is going to run web/openoffice/music all day. As for recommending a Via over the current (Dual core) celerons, they are quite a long way behind in performance terms, and not really any cheaper. I think that the option should be offered to have either LTS or the most current release as an option. For a consumer use, the new software available in a non LTS release does offer benefits over the staid reliability of the LTS. On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 10:51 PM, Liam Proven lpro...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/3/25 Eddie Bernard edd...@gmail.com: I'm looking to offer a base unit, 2GHz dual core Celeron (E1400) with 2GB DDR2 PC2-6400 RAM, and a 150GB SATA hdd. Graphics, sound and ethernet are onboard. My only comment - apart from to agree with those who commend that you use the LTS version - would be this: I would never buy a Celeron and I tell everyone, friends and clients, to avoid them. They are nasty, crippled devices and anything with a Celery in it is probably rubbish, in my not-at-all-humble opinion. I'd rather have a cheap low-end but full-spec AMD or Via chip than a Celeron. Yes, I know it's possible to replace a Celeron with a full-spec chip, but almost nobody ever does it's almost never an economical upgrade. -- Liam Proven • Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lpro...@gmail.com Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 • Fax: + 44 870-9151419 AOL/AIM/iChat/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven • LiveJournal/Twitter: lproven MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • ICQ: 73187508 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu pre-installed computer prices
Interesting discussion. People are saying a Linux PC should be cheaper than Windows and - as I've said before - I am firmly of the view that this is a perception that we should seek to correct. The free in Linux is NOT as in beer, and time and time again we keep reverting to this concept that it in some way is. The public are prone to make assumptions on the worth of a product based on its price. Let's face it - if you walk into a supermarket and look at the Baked Bean counter and know you *can* afford the Heinz are you going to buy the Tesco Value? Now it may be that the Tesco Value is actually better than the Heinz, but it's so much cheaper that the brain says hang on... clearly inferior... and it is passed over. Linux is not like that. And we need to FIGHT to correct this erroneous assumption. I think that the problem you're going to have selling Linux PCs to the mass market is that most people going out to buy a PC are likely to pay a bit extra for Windows, because that's what their mates have and they know what they're getting - Ubuntu is an unknown, and uncertainty puts people off. Apple are managing to keep an alternative stream going, but their Mac stuff has taken a quite different direction to Windows with sexy PCs etc. Buying an OS-X machine these days is becoming quite a fashion thing. We don't have known and we don't have fashion on our side, therefore we have to have something else. In Tesco one can buy a laptop for around £299, with Vista (albeit the Home Basic). Base units for desktop computing are less than £200, with specifications which (though low by today's benchmarks) would have cost thousands not many years ago. I am not convinced that pre-installed Ubuntu on a desktop is a market that will ever appeal to the masses and I am fairly sure that it is not something that is likely to be particularly profitable. Unless you're selling locally you have to factor in postage, insurance etc. too which - again - the big boys have the edge on. Sean -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
