subject:"Re\: Bunny hill symbol, used in America for signaling ski pistes for novices"

Single and double diamond?

https://bbliss176.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/symbols2_jpg.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_2Rc9ifOGLYg/TO5fF0XNTSI/IxE/RJPvVDD6gLM/s1600/caution-double-black-diamond.jpg
http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/double-black-diamond-sign-legend-ski-slopes-map-40955860.jpg


↪ Shervin

On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 12:46 PM, Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr wrote:

 Is there a symbol that can represent the Bunny hill symbol used in North
 America and some other American territories with mountains, to designate
 the ski pistes open to novice skiers (those pistes are signaled with green
 signs in Europe).

 I'm looking for the symbol itself, not the color, or the form of the sign.

 For example blue pistes in Europe are designed with a green circle in
 America, but we have a symbol for the circle; red pistes in Europe are
 signaled by a blue square in America, but we have a symbol for the square;
 black pistes in Europe are signaled by a black diamond in America, but we
 also have such black diamond in Unicode.

 But I can't find an equivalent to the American Bunny hill signal,
 equivalent to green pistes in Europe (this is a problem for webpages
 related to skiing: do we have to embed an image ?).

Re: Bunny hill symbol, used in America for signaling ski pistes for novices

Makes sense. But it doesn't seem like we need any new symbols. I think one
of these should do for hard and extra-hard slopes:

http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/list-unicodeset.jsp?a=%5B%3Aname%3D%2FDIAMOND%2F%3A%5Dg=

Also, I'm not at all against making use of the actual [image: ]we have. I
will not hold my breath for a combining rabbit symbol though.

↪ Shervin

On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 1:16 PM, Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr wrote:

I saif it: there's no symbol in Europe for pistes, just colors. The
American Bunny hill maps to green pistes in Europe.
(the European piste colors are used also for drawing their ways on maps,
not just found in signages).
Piste signs are typically all the same shape in the same station (most
often discs) and the text on it (if present) shows the name or number of
the piste in the station, or just an arrow showing the direction to follow.

2015-05-28 22:11 GMT+02:00 Shervin Afshar shervinafs...@gmail.com:

Well...to pick the nit, these shapes are rhombi; known colloquially as
diamonds.

So what's the symbol for bunny hill in Europe?

↪ Shervin

On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr
wrote:

Well also these symbols, if you want (these are not really diamonds),
but the wordpress page forgets the bunny hill. It starts only with the
green circle (in fact a black disc colored in green) which maps to blue
pistes in Europe.

2015-05-28 21:59 GMT+02:00 Shervin Afshar shervinafs...@gmail.com:

Single and double diamond?

https://bbliss176.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/symbols2_jpg.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_2Rc9ifOGLYg/TO5fF0XNTSI/IxE/RJPvVDD6gLM/s1600/caution-double-black-diamond.jpg

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/double-black-diamond-sign-legend-ski-slopes-map-40955860.jpg

↪ Shervin

On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 12:46 PM, Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr
wrote:

Is there a symbol that can represent the Bunny hill symbol used in
North America and some other American territories with mountains, to
designate the ski pistes open to novice skiers (those pistes are signaled
with green signs in Europe).

I'm looking for the symbol itself, not the color, or the form of the
sign.

For example blue pistes in Europe are designed with a green circle in
America, but we have a symbol for the circle; red pistes in Europe are
signaled by a blue square in America, but we have a symbol for the square;
black pistes in Europe are signaled by a black diamond in America, but we
also have such black diamond in Unicode.

But I can't find an equivalent to the American Bunny hill signal,
equivalent to green pistes in Europe (this is a problem for webpages
related to skiing: do we have to embed an image ?).

Re: Bunny hill symbol, used in America for signaling ski pistes for novices

2015-05-28 Thread Doug Ewell

http://www.signsofthemountains.com/what-do-the-symbols-on-ski-trail-signs-mean-d/
http://news.outdoortechnology.com/2015/02/04/ski-slope-rating-symbols-mean-really-mean/

Looks like a green circle is the symbol for a beginner slope. (The first
link also shows that piste is the European word for what we call a
trail, run, or slope). There is no difference between a bunny slope
and a beginner or novice slope.

Unicode has some suitable filled circles (particularly U+2B24 and
U+25CF), and it has a green apple, heart, and book, but as yet no green
circle.

--
Doug Ewell | http://ewellic.org | Thornton, CO 

RE: Bunny hill symbol, used in America for signaling ski pistes for novices

I’m used to them being next to each other.  So the entire discussion seems to 
be about how to encode a concept vs how to get the shape you want with existing 
code points.   If you just want the perfect shape, then maybe an svg is a 
better choice.  If we’re talking about describing ski-run difficulty levels in 
plain-text, then the hodge-podge of glyphs being offered in this thread seems 
kinda hacky to me.

-Shawn

From: ver...@gmail.com [mailto:ver...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Philippe Verdy
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 2:12 PM
To: Jim Melton
Cc: Shawn Steele; unicode Unicode Discussion
Subject: Re: Bunny hill symbol, used in America for signaling ski pistes for 
novices

Some documentations also suggest that the two diamonds are not stacked one 
above the other, but horizontally. It's a good point for using only one symbol, 
encoding it twice in plain-text if needed.

2015-05-28 22:15 GMT+02:00 Jim Melton 
jim.mel...@oracle.commailto:jim.mel...@oracle.com:
I no longer ski, but I did so for many years, mostly (but not exclusively) in 
the western United States.  I never encountered, at any USA ski 
hill/mountain/resort, a special symbol for bunny hills, which are typically 
represented by the green circle meaning beginner.  That's anecdotal evidence 
at best, but my observations cover numerous skiing sites.  I have encountered 
such a symbol in Europe and in New Zealand, but not in the USA.  (I have not 
had the pleasure of skiing in Canada and am thus unable to speak about ski 
areas in that country.)

The double black diamond would appear to be a unique symbol worthy of encoding, 
simply because the only valid typographical representation (in the USA) is two 
single black diamonds stacked one above the other and touching at the points.

Hope this helps,
   Jim

On 5/28/2015 2:04 PM, Shawn Steele wrote:
So is double black diamond a separate symbol?  Or just two of the black diamond?

And Blue-Black?

I’m drawing a blank on a specific bunny sign, in my experience those are 
usually just green.

Aren’t there a lot of cartography symbols for various systems that aren’t 
present in Unicode?

From: Unicode [mailto:unicode-boun...@unicode.org] On Behalf Of Philippe Verdy
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 12:47 PM
To: unicode Unicode Discussion
Subject: Bunny hill symbol, used in America for signaling ski pistes for 
novices

Is there a symbol that can represent the Bunny hill symbol used in North 
America and some other American territories with mountains, to designate the 
ski pistes open to novice skiers (those pistes are signaled with green signs in 
Europe).

I'm looking for the symbol itself, not the color, or the form of the sign.

For example blue pistes in Europe are designed with a green circle in America, 
but we have a symbol for the circle; red pistes in Europe are signaled by a 
blue square in America, but we have a symbol for the square; black pistes in 
Europe are signaled by a black diamond in America, but we also have such 
black diamond in Unicode.

But I can't find an equivalent to the American Bunny hill signal, equivalent 
to green pistes in Europe (this is a problem for webpages related to skiing: do 
we have to embed an image ?).



--



Jim Melton --- Editor of ISO/IEC 9075-* (SQL) Phone: +1.801.942.0144

  Chair, ISO/IEC JTC1/SC32 and W3C XML Query WGFax : +1.801.942.3345

Oracle CorporationOracle Email: jim dot melton at oracle dot com

1930 Viscounti Drive  Alternate email: jim dot melton at acm dot org

Sandy, UT 84093-1063 USA  Personal email: SheltieJim at xmission dot com



=  Facts are facts.   But any opinions expressed are the opinions  =

=  only of myself and may or may not reflect the opinions of anybody   =

=  else with whom I may or may not have discussed the issues at hand.  =

RE: Bunny hill symbol, used in America for signaling ski pistes for novices

I’m wondering if it’s a regional thing, I haven’t seen it, at least in the 
mostly-west of North America.  An east coast thing?

From: Jim Melton [mailto:jim.mel...@oracle.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 1:16 PM
To: Shawn Steele
Cc: verd...@wanadoo.fr; unicode Unicode Discussion
Subject: Re: Bunny hill symbol, used in America for signaling ski pistes for 
novices

I no longer ski, but I did so for many years, mostly (but not exclusively) in 
the western United States.  I never encountered, at any USA ski 
hill/mountain/resort, a special symbol for bunny hills, which are typically 
represented by the green circle meaning beginner.  That's anecdotal evidence 
at best, but my observations cover numerous skiing sites.  I have encountered 
such a symbol in Europe and in New Zealand, but not in the USA.  (I have not 
had the pleasure of skiing in Canada and am thus unable to speak about ski 
areas in that country.)

The double black diamond would appear to be a unique symbol worthy of encoding, 
simply because the only valid typographical representation (in the USA) is two 
single black diamonds stacked one above the other and touching at the points.

Hope this helps,
   Jim

On 5/28/2015 2:04 PM, Shawn Steele wrote:
So is double black diamond a separate symbol?  Or just two of the black diamond?

And Blue-Black?

I’m drawing a blank on a specific bunny sign, in my experience those are 
usually just green.

Aren’t there a lot of cartography symbols for various systems that aren’t 
present in Unicode?

From: Unicode [mailto:unicode-boun...@unicode.org] On Behalf Of Philippe Verdy
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 12:47 PM
To: unicode Unicode Discussion
Subject: Bunny hill symbol, used in America for signaling ski pistes for 
novices

Is there a symbol that can represent the Bunny hill symbol used in North 
America and some other American territories with mountains, to designate the 
ski pistes open to novice skiers (those pistes are signaled with green signs in 
Europe).

I'm looking for the symbol itself, not the color, or the form of the sign.

For example blue pistes in Europe are designed with a green circle in America, 
but we have a symbol for the circle; red pistes in Europe are signaled by a 
blue square in America, but we have a symbol for the square; black pistes in 
Europe are signaled by a black diamond in America, but we also have such 
black diamond in Unicode.

But I can't find an equivalent to the American Bunny hill signal, equivalent 
to green pistes in Europe (this is a problem for webpages related to skiing: do 
we have to embed an image ?).

--

Jim Melton --- Editor of ISO/IEC 9075-* (SQL) Phone: +1.801.942.0144

  Chair, ISO/IEC JTC1/SC32 and W3C XML Query WGFax : +1.801.942.3345

Oracle CorporationOracle Email: jim dot melton at oracle dot com

1930 Viscounti Drive  Alternate email: jim dot melton at acm dot org

Sandy, UT 84093-1063 USA  Personal email: SheltieJim at xmission dot com

=  Facts are facts.   But any opinions expressed are the opinions  =

=  only of myself and may or may not reflect the opinions of anybody   =

=  else with whom I may or may not have discussed the issues at hand.  =

Re: Bunny hill symbol, used in America for signaling ski pistes for novices

The green physical color does not need encoding. A black disc is enough,
just like the black square and the black diamond/romb (the rest is styling).

There's also the orange oval (horizontal) used for free-rides in America
(in Europe, not symbol but the yellow color, used for some authorized
free-ride pistes in Switzerland; in France, free-ride is severely
reglemented but there's no signage used as these are not open for the
general public, as they are too risky and such signs could bring too many
skiers to dangereous areas without proper training and equipement).

2015-05-28 22:59 GMT+02:00 Doug Ewell d...@ewellic.org:


 http://www.signsofthemountains.com/what-do-the-symbols-on-ski-trail-signs-mean-d/

 http://news.outdoortechnology.com/2015/02/04/ski-slope-rating-symbols-mean-really-mean/

 Looks like a green circle is the symbol for a beginner slope. (The first
 link also shows that piste is the European word for what we call a
 trail, run, or slope). There is no difference between a bunny slope
 and a beginner or novice slope.

 Unicode has some suitable filled circles (particularly U+2B24 and
 U+25CF), and it has a green apple, heart, and book, but as yet no green
 circle.

 --
 Doug Ewell | http://ewellic.org | Thornton, CO 

Re: Bunny hill symbol, used in America for signaling ski pistes for novices

2015-05-28 Thread Leo Broukhis

Being used in maps and map legends is not a sufficient condition for
encoding a symbol. If it were, all symbols used in physical maps would
have been encoded, including each and every mineral and rare metal.


Leo

On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 2:20 PM, Shervin Afshar shervinafs...@gmail.com wrote:
 Since the double-diamond has map and map legend usage, it might be a good
 idea to have it encoded separately. I know that I'm stating the obvious
 here, but the important point is doing the research and showing that it has
 widespread usage.

 ↪ Shervin

 On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 2:15 PM, Shawn Steele shawn.ste...@microsoft.com
 wrote:

 I’m used to them being next to each other.  So the entire discussion seems
 to be about how to encode a concept vs how to get the shape you want with
 existing code points.   If you just want the perfect shape, then maybe an
 svg is a better choice.  If we’re talking about describing ski-run
 difficulty levels in plain-text, then the hodge-podge of glyphs being
 offered in this thread seems kinda hacky to me.



 -Shawn



 From: ver...@gmail.com [mailto:ver...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Philippe
 Verdy
 Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 2:12 PM
 To: Jim Melton
 Cc: Shawn Steele; unicode Unicode Discussion
 Subject: Re: Bunny hill symbol, used in America for signaling ski pistes
 for novices



 Some documentations also suggest that the two diamonds are not stacked one
 above the other, but horizontally. It's a good point for using only one
 symbol, encoding it twice in plain-text if needed.



 2015-05-28 22:15 GMT+02:00 Jim Melton jim.mel...@oracle.com:

 I no longer ski, but I did so for many years, mostly (but not exclusively)
 in the western United States.  I never encountered, at any USA ski
 hill/mountain/resort, a special symbol for bunny hills, which are
 typically represented by the green circle meaning beginner.  That's
 anecdotal evidence at best, but my observations cover numerous skiing sites.
 I have encountered such a symbol in Europe and in New Zealand, but not in
 the USA.  (I have not had the pleasure of skiing in Canada and am thus
 unable to speak about ski areas in that country.)

 The double black diamond would appear to be a unique symbol worthy of
 encoding, simply because the only valid typographical representation (in the
 USA) is two single black diamonds stacked one above the other and touching
 at the points.

 Hope this helps,
Jim


 On 5/28/2015 2:04 PM, Shawn Steele wrote:

 So is double black diamond a separate symbol?  Or just two of the black
 diamond?



 And Blue-Black?



 I’m drawing a blank on a specific bunny sign, in my experience those are
 usually just green.



 Aren’t there a lot of cartography symbols for various systems that aren’t
 present in Unicode?



 From: Unicode [mailto:unicode-boun...@unicode.org] On Behalf Of Philippe
 Verdy
 Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 12:47 PM
 To: unicode Unicode Discussion
 Subject: Bunny hill symbol, used in America for signaling ski pistes for
 novices



 Is there a symbol that can represent the Bunny hill symbol used in North
 America and some other American territories with mountains, to designate the
 ski pistes open to novice skiers (those pistes are signaled with green signs
 in Europe).



 I'm looking for the symbol itself, not the color, or the form of the sign.



 For example blue pistes in Europe are designed with a green circle in
 America, but we have a symbol for the circle; red pistes in Europe are
 signaled by a blue square in America, but we have a symbol for the square;
 black pistes in Europe are signaled by a black diamond in America, but we
 also have such black diamond in Unicode.



 But I can't find an equivalent to the American Bunny hill signal,
 equivalent to green pistes in Europe (this is a problem for webpages related
 to skiing: do we have to embed an image ?).





 --

 

 Jim Melton --- Editor of ISO/IEC 9075-* (SQL) Phone: +1.801.942.0144

   Chair, ISO/IEC JTC1/SC32 and W3C XML Query WGFax : +1.801.942.3345

 Oracle CorporationOracle Email: jim dot melton at oracle dot com

 1930 Viscounti Drive  Alternate email: jim dot melton at acm dot org

 Sandy, UT 84093-1063 USA  Personal email: SheltieJim at xmission dot com

 

 =  Facts are facts.   But any opinions expressed are the opinions  =

 =  only of myself and may or may not reflect the opinions of anybody   =

 =  else with whom I may or may not have discussed the issues at hand.  =

Re: Bunny hill symbol, used in America for signaling ski pistes for novices

2015-05-28 Thread Leonardo Boiko

You could use U+1F407 RABBIT combined with U+20E4 COMBINING ENCLOSING
UPWARD POINTING TRIANGLE, and pretend the triangle is a hill.   ⃤

If only we had a combining rabbit, we could add rabbits to U+1F3D4 SNOW
CAPPED MOUNTAIN.  Or anything else.


2015-05-28 16:46 GMT-03:00 Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr:

 Is there a symbol that can represent the Bunny hill symbol used in North
 America and some other American territories with mountains, to designate
 the ski pistes open to novice skiers (those pistes are signaled with green
 signs in Europe).

 I'm looking for the symbol itself, not the color, or the form of the sign.

 For example blue pistes in Europe are designed with a green circle in
 America, but we have a symbol for the circle; red pistes in Europe are
 signaled by a blue square in America, but we have a symbol for the square;
 black pistes in Europe are signaled by a black diamond in America, but we
 also have such black diamond in Unicode.

 But I can't find an equivalent to the American Bunny hill signal,
 equivalent to green pistes in Europe (this is a problem for webpages
 related to skiing: do we have to embed an image ?).

Re: Bunny hill symbol, used in America for signaling ski pistes for novices

Well...to pick the nit, these shapes are rhombi; known colloquially as
diamonds.

So what's the symbol for bunny hill in Europe?

↪ Shervin

On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr wrote:

 Well also these symbols, if you want (these are not really diamonds),
 but the wordpress page forgets the bunny hill. It starts only with the
 green circle (in fact a black disc colored in green) which maps to blue
 pistes in Europe.

 2015-05-28 21:59 GMT+02:00 Shervin Afshar shervinafs...@gmail.com:

 Single and double diamond?

 https://bbliss176.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/symbols2_jpg.jpg

 http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_2Rc9ifOGLYg/TO5fF0XNTSI/IxE/RJPvVDD6gLM/s1600/caution-double-black-diamond.jpg

 http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/double-black-diamond-sign-legend-ski-slopes-map-40955860.jpg


 ↪ Shervin

 On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 12:46 PM, Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr
 wrote:

 Is there a symbol that can represent the Bunny hill symbol used in
 North America and some other American territories with mountains, to
 designate the ski pistes open to novice skiers (those pistes are signaled
 with green signs in Europe).

 I'm looking for the symbol itself, not the color, or the form of the
 sign.

 For example blue pistes in Europe are designed with a green circle in
 America, but we have a symbol for the circle; red pistes in Europe are
 signaled by a blue square in America, but we have a symbol for the square;
 black pistes in Europe are signaled by a black diamond in America, but we
 also have such black diamond in Unicode.

 But I can't find an equivalent to the American Bunny hill signal,
 equivalent to green pistes in Europe (this is a problem for webpages
 related to skiing: do we have to embed an image ?).

Re: Bunny hill symbol, used in America for signaling ski pistes for novices

Very poor suggestion I think. This is a single symbol by itself.

2015-05-28 22:02 GMT+02:00 Leonardo Boiko leobo...@namakajiri.net:

 You could use U+1F407 RABBIT combined with U+20E4 COMBINING ENCLOSING
 UPWARD POINTING TRIANGLE, and pretend the triangle is a hill.  [image: ]
 ⃤

 If only we had a combining rabbit, we could add rabbits to U+1F3D4 SNOW
 CAPPED MOUNTAIN.  Or anything else.


 2015-05-28 16:46 GMT-03:00 Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr:

 Is there a symbol that can represent the Bunny hill symbol used in North
 America and some other American territories with mountains, to designate
 the ski pistes open to novice skiers (those pistes are signaled with green
 signs in Europe).

 I'm looking for the symbol itself, not the color, or the form of the sign.

 For example blue pistes in Europe are designed with a green circle in
 America, but we have a symbol for the circle; red pistes in Europe are
 signaled by a blue square in America, but we have a symbol for the square;
 black pistes in Europe are signaled by a black diamond in America, but we
 also have such black diamond in Unicode.

 But I can't find an equivalent to the American Bunny hill signal,
 equivalent to green pistes in Europe (this is a problem for webpages
 related to skiing: do we have to embed an image ?).

Re: Bunny hill symbol, used in America for signaling ski pistes for novices

A single black diamond symbol would be sufficient I think (in fact a
black square rotated 45°, not the same as the symbol of card decks which
typically has borders rounded inward)

The effective color does not really matter here, it can be generated by
styling the text, something necessary anyway with the European piste colors
that don't use any specific symbol, but signs that are most frequently
circular, or sometimes shaped as squares, or diamonds). So for the black
diamond it just means that this is a symbol fully filled with the text
color (like other Unicode characters named with BLACK.


2015-05-28 22:04 GMT+02:00 Shawn Steele shawn.ste...@microsoft.com:

  So is double black diamond a separate symbol?  Or just two of the black
 diamond?



 And Blue-Black?



 I’m drawing a blank on a specific bunny sign, in my experience those are
 usually just green.



 Aren’t there a lot of cartography symbols for various systems that aren’t
 present in Unicode?



 *From:* Unicode [mailto:unicode-boun...@unicode.org] *On Behalf Of *Philippe
 Verdy
 *Sent:* Thursday, May 28, 2015 12:47 PM
 *To:* unicode Unicode Discussion
 *Subject:* Bunny hill symbol, used in America for signaling ski pistes
 for novices



 Is there a symbol that can represent the Bunny hill symbol used in North
 America and some other American territories with mountains, to designate
 the ski pistes open to novice skiers (those pistes are signaled with green
 signs in Europe).



 I'm looking for the symbol itself, not the color, or the form of the sign.



 For example blue pistes in Europe are designed with a green circle in
 America, but we have a symbol for the circle; red pistes in Europe are
 signaled by a blue square in America, but we have a symbol for the square;
 black pistes in Europe are signaled by a black diamond in America, but we
 also have such black diamond in Unicode.



 But I can't find an equivalent to the American Bunny hill signal,
 equivalent to green pistes in Europe (this is a problem for webpages
 related to skiing: do we have to embed an image ?).

Re: Bunny hill symbol, used in America for signaling ski pistes for novices

Some documentations also suggest that the two diamonds are not stacked one
above the other, but horizontally. It's a good point for using only one
symbol, encoding it twice in plain-text if needed.

2015-05-28 22:15 GMT+02:00 Jim Melton jim.mel...@oracle.com:

  I no longer ski, but I did so for many years, mostly (but not
 exclusively) in the western United States.  I never encountered, at any USA
 ski hill/mountain/resort, a special symbol for bunny hills, which are
 typically represented by the green circle meaning beginner.  That's
 anecdotal evidence at best, but my observations cover numerous skiing
 sites.  I have encountered such a symbol in Europe and in New Zealand, but
 not in the USA.  (I have not had the pleasure of skiing in Canada and am
 thus unable to speak about ski areas in that country.)

 The double black diamond would appear to be a unique symbol worthy of
 encoding, simply because the only valid typographical representation (in
 the USA) is two single black diamonds stacked one above the other and
 touching at the points.

 Hope this helps,
Jim

 On 5/28/2015 2:04 PM, Shawn Steele wrote:

  So is double black diamond a separate symbol?  Or just two of the black
 diamond?



 And Blue-Black?



 I’m drawing a blank on a specific bunny sign, in my experience those are
 usually just green.



 Aren’t there a lot of cartography symbols for various systems that aren’t
 present in Unicode?



 *From:* Unicode [mailto:unicode-boun...@unicode.org
 unicode-boun...@unicode.org] *On Behalf Of *Philippe Verdy
 *Sent:* Thursday, May 28, 2015 12:47 PM
 *To:* unicode Unicode Discussion
 *Subject:* Bunny hill symbol, used in America for signaling ski pistes
 for novices



 Is there a symbol that can represent the Bunny hill symbol used in North
 America and some other American territories with mountains, to designate
 the ski pistes open to novice skiers (those pistes are signaled with green
 signs in Europe).



 I'm looking for the symbol itself, not the color, or the form of the sign.



 For example blue pistes in Europe are designed with a green circle in
 America, but we have a symbol for the circle; red pistes in Europe are
 signaled by a blue square in America, but we have a symbol for the square;
 black pistes in Europe are signaled by a black diamond in America, but we
 also have such black diamond in Unicode.



 But I can't find an equivalent to the American Bunny hill signal,
 equivalent to green pistes in Europe (this is a problem for webpages
 related to skiing: do we have to embed an image ?).




 --
 
 Jim Melton --- Editor of ISO/IEC 9075-* (SQL) Phone: +1.801.942.0144
   Chair, ISO/IEC JTC1/SC32 and W3C XML Query WGFax : +1.801.942.3345
 Oracle CorporationOracle Email: jim dot melton at oracle dot com
 1930 Viscounti Drive  Alternate email: jim dot melton at acm dot org
 Sandy, UT 84093-1063 USA  Personal email: SheltieJim at xmission dot com
 
 =  Facts are facts.   But any opinions expressed are the opinions  =
 =  only of myself and may or may not reflect the opinions of anybody   =
 =  else with whom I may or may not have discussed the issues at hand.  =

Re: Bunny hill symbol, used in America for signaling ski pistes for novices

2015-05-28 22:59 GMT+02:00 Doug Ewell d...@ewellic.org:

 Looks like a green circle is the symbol for a beginner slope. (The first
 link also shows that piste is the European word for what we call a
 trail, run, or slope). There is no difference between a bunny slope
 and a beginner or novice slope.


The difference is obvious in Europe where the novice difficulty is marked
as green pistes (slopes are below 30% or almost flat), and the
beginner/moderate difficulty is marked as blue pistes (slopes about
30-35%).

Even America must have this novice difficulty, with areas mostly used by
young children (with their parents not skiing but following them by foot,
and a restriction of speeds); these areas are protected so that other
skiers will not pass through them. In fact if you remain on these novice
areas you cannot reach any speed that could cause dangerous shocks: you
have to push to advance, otherwise you'll slow down naturally and stop on
the snow.

These areas can be used by walkers, and randonners using raquettes.

Re: Bunny hill symbol, used in America for signaling ski pistes for novices

What you'd like is in act similar to the zero-width joiner, between two
combining sequences, to make them overlap. A sort of negative-width
joiner that we could call overlay joiner.
So '!' + OVERLAY JOINER + '?' = '‽'.

But in legacy charsets, this role was encoded as a BACKSPACE control (it
was used to produce combining accents as well, by combining a letter and a
*spacing* accent), and I think it is still a solution for the same problem
without needing a new character.
So '!' + BACKSPACE + '?' = '‽'.

2015-05-28 22:33 GMT+02:00 Leonardo Boiko leobo...@namakajiri.net:

Serious question: Has someone discussed a generic combining mechanism? I
mean, characters with an effect like combine the last two. Say, '!' +
'?' + COMBINING OVERLAY = '‽'. '!' + '!' + COMBINING SIDE BY SIDE = '‼',
and so on. Similar in spirit to the Ideographic Description Characters,
but meant to actually tell the rendering system to combine stuff.

2015-05-28 17:25 GMT-03:00 Shervin Afshar shervinafs...@gmail.com:

Makes sense. But it doesn't seem like we need any new symbols. I think one
of these should do for hard and extra-hard slopes:

http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/list-unicodeset.jsp?a=%5B%3Aname%3D%2FDIAMOND%2F%3A%5Dg=

Also, I'm not at all against making use of the actual [image: ]we
have. I will not hold my breath for a combining rabbit symbol though.

↪ Shervin

On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 1:16 PM, Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr
wrote:

2015-05-28 22:11 GMT+02:00 Shervin Afshar shervinafs...@gmail.com:

Well...to pick the nit, these shapes are rhombi; known colloquially as
diamonds.

So what's the symbol for bunny hill in Europe?

↪ Shervin

On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr
wrote:

Well also these symbols, if you want (these are not really
diamonds), but the wordpress page forgets the bunny hill. It starts
only with the green circle (in fact a black disc colored in green) which
maps to blue pistes in Europe.

2015-05-28 21:59 GMT+02:00 Shervin Afshar shervinafs...@gmail.com:

Single and double diamond?

https://bbliss176.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/symbols2_jpg.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_2Rc9ifOGLYg/TO5fF0XNTSI/IxE/RJPvVDD6gLM/s1600/caution-double-black-diamond.jpg

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/double-black-diamond-sign-legend-ski-slopes-map-40955860.jpg

↪ Shervin

On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 12:46 PM, Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr
wrote:

I'm looking for the symbol itself, not the color, or the form of the
sign.

For example blue pistes in Europe are designed with a green circle
in America, but we have a symbol for the circle; red pistes in Europe
are
signaled by a blue square in America, but we have a symbol for the
square;
black pistes in Europe are signaled by a black diamond in America, but
we
also have such black diamond in Unicode.

But I can't find an equivalent to the American Bunny hill signal,
equivalent to green pistes in Europe (this is a problem for webpages
related to skiing: do we have to embed an image ?).

RE: Bunny hill symbol, used in America for signaling ski pistes for novices

What is the image?, curiosity killed the bunny ☺  I expect that it’s limited to 
a single ski area or maybe region.

From: ver...@gmail.com [mailto:ver...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Philippe Verdy
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 3:01 PM
To: Shawn Steele
Cc: Doug Ewell; Unicode Mailing List
Subject: Re: Bunny hill symbol, used in America for signaling ski pistes for 
novices

The rope (or other barriers) are also present in Europe, but they are 
considered true pistes by themselves, even if they are relatively short. In 
frequent cases they are connected upward to a blue piste (not for novices) but 
there are slow down warnings displayed on them and the regulation requires 
taking care of every skier that could be in front of you.

Various tools are used to force skiers to slow down, including forcing them to 
slalom between barriers, or including flat sections or sections going upward, 
and adding a large rest area around this interconnection.

The European green pistes for novices are also relatively well separated from 
blue pistes (used by all other skiers and interconnected with mor difficult 
ones: red and black): if there's a blue piste, it will most often be parallel 
and separated physically by barriers, this limits the number of intersections 
or the need for interconnections (the only intersection is then at the station 
itself, in a crowded area near the equipments to bring skiers to the upper part 
of the piste).

But my initial question was about the symbol that I have seen (partly) 
documented without an actual image for ski stations in US. May be the bunny 
hills symbol is specific to a station, not used elsewhere, or there are other 
similar symbols used locally. I wonder if this is not simply the symbol/logo of 
a local ski school...

2015-05-28 23:44 GMT+02:00 Shawn Steele 
shawn.ste...@microsoft.commailto:shawn.ste...@microsoft.com:
Typically we have “slow” zones with include both “novice” areas and congested 
areas.  Additionally the “novice” part of a slope often has a rope fence 
delineating it from the rest of the slow.  However on the maps, etc, its 
usually just off to the side of a green run and doesn’t have a special symbol.

From: Unicode 
[mailto:unicode-boun...@unicode.orgmailto:unicode-boun...@unicode.org] On 
Behalf Of Philippe Verdy
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 2:26 PM
To: Doug Ewell
Cc: Unicode Mailing List
Subject: Re: Bunny hill symbol, used in America for signaling ski pistes for 
novices

2015-05-28 22:59 GMT+02:00 Doug Ewell 
d...@ewellic.orgmailto:d...@ewellic.org:
Looks like a green circle is the symbol for a beginner slope. (The first
link also shows that piste is the European word for what we call a
trail, run, or slope). There is no difference between a bunny slope
and a beginner or novice slope.

The difference is obvious in Europe where the novice difficulty is marked as 
green pistes (slopes are below 30% or almost flat), and the beginner/moderate 
difficulty is marked as blue pistes (slopes about 30-35%).

Even America must have this novice difficulty, with areas mostly used by 
young children (with their parents not skiing but following them by foot, and a 
restriction of speeds); these areas are protected so that other skiers will not 
pass through them. In fact if you remain on these novice areas you cannot reach 
any speed that could cause dangerous shocks: you have to push to advance, 
otherwise you'll slow down naturally and stop on the snow.

These areas can be used by walkers, and randonners using raquettes.

RE: Bunny hill symbol, used in America for signaling ski pistes for novices

So is double black diamond a separate symbol?  Or just two of the black diamond?

And Blue-Black?

I’m drawing a blank on a specific bunny sign, in my experience those are 
usually just green.

Aren’t there a lot of cartography symbols for various systems that aren’t 
present in Unicode?

From: Unicode [mailto:unicode-boun...@unicode.org] On Behalf Of Philippe Verdy
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 12:47 PM
To: unicode Unicode Discussion
Subject: Bunny hill symbol, used in America for signaling ski pistes for 
novices

Is there a symbol that can represent the Bunny hill symbol used in North 
America and some other American territories with mountains, to designate the 
ski pistes open to novice skiers (those pistes are signaled with green signs in 
Europe).

I'm looking for the symbol itself, not the color, or the form of the sign.

For example blue pistes in Europe are designed with a green circle in America, 
but we have a symbol for the circle; red pistes in Europe are signaled by a 
blue square in America, but we have a symbol for the square; black pistes in 
Europe are signaled by a black diamond in America, but we also have such 
black diamond in Unicode.

But I can't find an equivalent to the American Bunny hill signal, equivalent 
to green pistes in Europe (this is a problem for webpages related to skiing: do 
we have to embed an image ?).

Re: Bunny hill symbol, used in America for signaling ski pistes for novices

I saif it: there's no symbol in Europe for pistes, just colors. The
American Bunny hill maps to green pistes in Europe.
(the European piste colors are used also for drawing their ways on maps,
not just found in signages).
Piste signs are typically all the same shape in the same station (most
often discs) and the text on it (if present) shows the name or number of
the piste in the station, or just an arrow showing the direction to follow.

2015-05-28 22:11 GMT+02:00 Shervin Afshar shervinafs...@gmail.com:

 Well...to pick the nit, these shapes are rhombi; known colloquially as
 diamonds.

 So what's the symbol for bunny hill in Europe?

 ↪ Shervin

 On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr
 wrote:

 Well also these symbols, if you want (these are not really diamonds),
 but the wordpress page forgets the bunny hill. It starts only with the
 green circle (in fact a black disc colored in green) which maps to blue
 pistes in Europe.

 2015-05-28 21:59 GMT+02:00 Shervin Afshar shervinafs...@gmail.com:

 Single and double diamond?

 https://bbliss176.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/symbols2_jpg.jpg

 http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_2Rc9ifOGLYg/TO5fF0XNTSI/IxE/RJPvVDD6gLM/s1600/caution-double-black-diamond.jpg

 http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/double-black-diamond-sign-legend-ski-slopes-map-40955860.jpg


 ↪ Shervin

 On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 12:46 PM, Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr
 wrote:

 Is there a symbol that can represent the Bunny hill symbol used in
 North America and some other American territories with mountains, to
 designate the ski pistes open to novice skiers (those pistes are signaled
 with green signs in Europe).

 I'm looking for the symbol itself, not the color, or the form of the
 sign.

 For example blue pistes in Europe are designed with a green circle in
 America, but we have a symbol for the circle; red pistes in Europe are
 signaled by a blue square in America, but we have a symbol for the square;
 black pistes in Europe are signaled by a black diamond in America, but we
 also have such black diamond in Unicode.

 But I can't find an equivalent to the American Bunny hill signal,
 equivalent to green pistes in Europe (this is a problem for webpages
 related to skiing: do we have to embed an image ?).

Re: Bunny hill symbol, used in America for signaling ski pistes for novices

2015-05-28 Thread Leonardo Boiko

2015-05-28 17:25 GMT-03:00 Shervin Afshar shervinafs...@gmail.com:

Makes sense. But it doesn't seem like we need any new symbols. I think one
of these should do for hard and extra-hard slopes:

http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/list-unicodeset.jsp?a=%5B%3Aname%3D%2FDIAMOND%2F%3A%5Dg=

Also, I'm not at all against making use of the actual [image: ]we have.
I will not hold my breath for a combining rabbit symbol though.

↪ Shervin

On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 1:16 PM, Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr
wrote:

2015-05-28 22:11 GMT+02:00 Shervin Afshar shervinafs...@gmail.com:

Well...to pick the nit, these shapes are rhombi; known colloquially as
diamonds.

So what's the symbol for bunny hill in Europe?

↪ Shervin

On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr
wrote:

2015-05-28 21:59 GMT+02:00 Shervin Afshar shervinafs...@gmail.com:

Single and double diamond?

https://bbliss176.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/symbols2_jpg.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_2Rc9ifOGLYg/TO5fF0XNTSI/IxE/RJPvVDD6gLM/s1600/caution-double-black-diamond.jpg

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/double-black-diamond-sign-legend-ski-slopes-map-40955860.jpg

↪ Shervin

On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 12:46 PM, Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr
wrote:

I'm looking for the symbol itself, not the color, or the form of the
sign.

For example blue pistes in Europe are designed with a green circle in
America, but we have a symbol for the circle; red pistes in Europe are
signaled by a blue square in America, but we have a symbol for the
square;
black pistes in Europe are signaled by a black diamond in America, but we
also have such black diamond in Unicode.

But I can't find an equivalent to the American Bunny hill signal,
equivalent to green pistes in Europe (this is a problem for webpages
related to skiing: do we have to embed an image ?).

Re: Bunny hill symbol, used in America for signaling ski pistes for novices

Not just maps, but documentations. Ski resorts deliver many documentations,
including those explaining security rules or promoting their equipement.
And they are used on signs (the pistes themselves are not colored, the snow
is still white !).

In fact maps are the least common use of these symbols (there are far less
maps available), and skiers don't have to follow a map when they practice
their sport, they follow the signs. You'll find a large map display only in
stations, and poor rough maps on documentations not showing many details
seen on the terrain (and constantly varying across the seasons or with the
weather conditions, so a map will not really help). But it's more important
to train people about the signalisation they'll encounter.

2015-05-28 23:56 GMT+02:00 Leo Broukhis l...@mailcom.com:

 Being used in maps and map legends is not a sufficient condition for
 encoding a symbol. If it were, all symbols used in physical maps would
 have been encoded, including each and every mineral and rare metal.


 Leo

 On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 2:20 PM, Shervin Afshar shervinafs...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  Since the double-diamond has map and map legend usage, it might be a good
  idea to have it encoded separately. I know that I'm stating the obvious
  here, but the important point is doing the research and showing that it
 has
  widespread usage.
 
  ↪ Shervin
 
  On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 2:15 PM, Shawn Steele 
 shawn.ste...@microsoft.com
  wrote:
 
  I’m used to them being next to each other.  So the entire discussion
 seems
  to be about how to encode a concept vs how to get the shape you want
 with
  existing code points.   If you just want the perfect shape, then maybe
 an
  svg is a better choice.  If we’re talking about describing ski-run
  difficulty levels in plain-text, then the hodge-podge of glyphs being
  offered in this thread seems kinda hacky to me.
 
 
 
  -Shawn
 
 
 
  From: ver...@gmail.com [mailto:ver...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Philippe
  Verdy
  Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 2:12 PM
  To: Jim Melton
  Cc: Shawn Steele; unicode Unicode Discussion
  Subject: Re: Bunny hill symbol, used in America for signaling ski
 pistes
  for novices
 
 
 
  Some documentations also suggest that the two diamonds are not stacked
 one
  above the other, but horizontally. It's a good point for using only one
  symbol, encoding it twice in plain-text if needed.
 
 
 
  2015-05-28 22:15 GMT+02:00 Jim Melton jim.mel...@oracle.com:
 
  I no longer ski, but I did so for many years, mostly (but not
 exclusively)
  in the western United States.  I never encountered, at any USA ski
  hill/mountain/resort, a special symbol for bunny hills, which are
  typically represented by the green circle meaning beginner.  That's
  anecdotal evidence at best, but my observations cover numerous skiing
 sites.
  I have encountered such a symbol in Europe and in New Zealand, but not
 in
  the USA.  (I have not had the pleasure of skiing in Canada and am thus
  unable to speak about ski areas in that country.)
 
  The double black diamond would appear to be a unique symbol worthy of
  encoding, simply because the only valid typographical representation
 (in the
  USA) is two single black diamonds stacked one above the other and
 touching
  at the points.
 
  Hope this helps,
 Jim
 
 
  On 5/28/2015 2:04 PM, Shawn Steele wrote:
 
  So is double black diamond a separate symbol?  Or just two of the black
  diamond?
 
 
 
  And Blue-Black?
 
 
 
  I’m drawing a blank on a specific bunny sign, in my experience those are
  usually just green.
 
 
 
  Aren’t there a lot of cartography symbols for various systems that
 aren’t
  present in Unicode?
 
 
 
  From: Unicode [mailto:unicode-boun...@unicode.org] On Behalf Of
 Philippe
  Verdy
  Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 12:47 PM
  To: unicode Unicode Discussion
  Subject: Bunny hill symbol, used in America for signaling ski pistes
 for
  novices
 
 
 
  Is there a symbol that can represent the Bunny hill symbol used in
 North
  America and some other American territories with mountains, to
 designate the
  ski pistes open to novice skiers (those pistes are signaled with green
 signs
  in Europe).
 
 
 
  I'm looking for the symbol itself, not the color, or the form of the
 sign.
 
 
 
  For example blue pistes in Europe are designed with a green circle in
  America, but we have a symbol for the circle; red pistes in Europe are
  signaled by a blue square in America, but we have a symbol for the
 square;
  black pistes in Europe are signaled by a black diamond in America, but
 we
  also have such black diamond in Unicode.
 
 
 
  But I can't find an equivalent to the American Bunny hill signal,
  equivalent to green pistes in Europe (this is a problem for webpages
 related
  to skiing: do we have to embed an image ?).
 
 
 
 
 
  --
 
  
 
  Jim Melton --- Editor of ISO/IEC 9075-* (SQL) Phone: +1.801.942.0144
 
Chair,

Re: Bunny hill symbol, used in America for signaling ski pistes for novices

Since the double-diamond has map and map legend usage, it might be a good
idea to have it encoded separately. I know that I'm stating the obvious
here, but the important point is doing the research and showing that it has
widespread usage.

↪ Shervin

On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 2:15 PM, Shawn Steele shawn.ste...@microsoft.com
wrote:

  I’m used to them being next to each other.  So the entire discussion
 seems to be about how to encode a concept vs how to get the shape you want
 with existing code points.   If you just want the perfect shape, then maybe
 an svg is a better choice.  If we’re talking about describing ski-run
 difficulty levels in plain-text, then the hodge-podge of glyphs being
 offered in this thread seems kinda hacky to me.



 -Shawn



 *From:* ver...@gmail.com [mailto:ver...@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Philippe
 Verdy
 *Sent:* Thursday, May 28, 2015 2:12 PM
 *To:* Jim Melton
 *Cc:* Shawn Steele; unicode Unicode Discussion
 *Subject:* Re: Bunny hill symbol, used in America for signaling ski
 pistes for novices



 Some documentations also suggest that the two diamonds are not stacked one
 above the other, but horizontally. It's a good point for using only one
 symbol, encoding it twice in plain-text if needed.



 2015-05-28 22:15 GMT+02:00 Jim Melton jim.mel...@oracle.com:

  I no longer ski, but I did so for many years, mostly (but not
 exclusively) in the western United States.  I never encountered, at any USA
 ski hill/mountain/resort, a special symbol for bunny hills, which are
 typically represented by the green circle meaning beginner.  That's
 anecdotal evidence at best, but my observations cover numerous skiing
 sites.  I have encountered such a symbol in Europe and in New Zealand, but
 not in the USA.  (I have not had the pleasure of skiing in Canada and am
 thus unable to speak about ski areas in that country.)

 The double black diamond would appear to be a unique symbol worthy of
 encoding, simply because the only valid typographical representation (in
 the USA) is two single black diamonds stacked one above the other and
 touching at the points.

 Hope this helps,
Jim


 On 5/28/2015 2:04 PM, Shawn Steele wrote:

  So is double black diamond a separate symbol?  Or just two of the black
 diamond?



 And Blue-Black?



 I’m drawing a blank on a specific bunny sign, in my experience those are
 usually just green.



 Aren’t there a lot of cartography symbols for various systems that aren’t
 present in Unicode?



 *From:* Unicode [mailto:unicode-boun...@unicode.org
 unicode-boun...@unicode.org] *On Behalf Of *Philippe Verdy
 *Sent:* Thursday, May 28, 2015 12:47 PM
 *To:* unicode Unicode Discussion
 *Subject:* Bunny hill symbol, used in America for signaling ski pistes
 for novices



 Is there a symbol that can represent the Bunny hill symbol used in North
 America and some other American territories with mountains, to designate
 the ski pistes open to novice skiers (those pistes are signaled with green
 signs in Europe).



 I'm looking for the symbol itself, not the color, or the form of the sign.



 For example blue pistes in Europe are designed with a green circle in
 America, but we have a symbol for the circle; red pistes in Europe are
 signaled by a blue square in America, but we have a symbol for the square;
 black pistes in Europe are signaled by a black diamond in America, but we
 also have such black diamond in Unicode.



 But I can't find an equivalent to the American Bunny hill signal,
 equivalent to green pistes in Europe (this is a problem for webpages
 related to skiing: do we have to embed an image ?).





 --

 

 Jim Melton --- Editor of ISO/IEC 9075-* (SQL) Phone: +1.801.942.0144

   Chair, ISO/IEC JTC1/SC32 and W3C XML Query WGFax : +1.801.942.3345

 Oracle CorporationOracle Email: jim dot melton at oracle dot com

 1930 Viscounti Drive  Alternate email: jim dot melton at acm dot org

 Sandy, UT 84093-1063 USA  Personal email: SheltieJim at xmission dot com

 

 =  Facts are facts.   But any opinions expressed are the opinions  =

 =  only of myself and may or may not reflect the opinions of anybody   =

 =  else with whom I may or may not have discussed the issues at hand.  =

RE: Bunny hill symbol, used in America for signaling ski pistes for novices

Typically we have “slow” zones with include both “novice” areas and congested 
areas.  Additionally the “novice” part of a slope often has a rope fence 
delineating it from the rest of the slow.  However on the maps, etc, its 
usually just off to the side of a green run and doesn’t have a special symbol.

From: Unicode [mailto:unicode-boun...@unicode.org] On Behalf Of Philippe Verdy
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 2:26 PM
To: Doug Ewell
Cc: Unicode Mailing List
Subject: Re: Bunny hill symbol, used in America for signaling ski pistes for 
novices

2015-05-28 22:59 GMT+02:00 Doug Ewell 
d...@ewellic.orgmailto:d...@ewellic.org:
Looks like a green circle is the symbol for a beginner slope. (The first
link also shows that piste is the European word for what we call a
trail, run, or slope). There is no difference between a bunny slope
and a beginner or novice slope.

The difference is obvious in Europe where the novice difficulty is marked as 
green pistes (slopes are below 30% or almost flat), and the beginner/moderate 
difficulty is marked as blue pistes (slopes about 30-35%).

Even America must have this novice difficulty, with areas mostly used by 
young children (with their parents not skiing but following them by foot, and a 
restriction of speeds); these areas are protected so that other skiers will not 
pass through them. In fact if you remain on these novice areas you cannot reach 
any speed that could cause dangerous shocks: you have to push to advance, 
otherwise you'll slow down naturally and stop on the snow.

These areas can be used by walkers, and randonners using raquettes.

Re: Bunny hill symbol, used in America for signaling ski pistes for novices