Re: FW: transliteration
On Wed, Sep 05, 2001 at 03:30:50PM -0700, Magda Danish (Unicode) wrote: I am looking for unicode fonts that include characters commonly used in transliteration of non-roman languages. How would I be able to obtain those fonts? If you're talking about characters that are available precomposed in Unicode, Arial Unicode (from Microsoft) or Plane2000 (only if the licensing on the first one is unacceptable - it's much lower quality) will include all the characters. -- David Starner - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pointless website: http://dvdeug.dhis.org I don't care if Bill personally has my name and reads my email and laughs at me. In fact, I'd be rather honored. - Joseph_Greg
Re: FW: transliteration
David Starner wrote: On Wed, Sep 05, 2001 at 03:30:50PM -0700, Magda Danish (Unicode) wrote: I am looking for unicode fonts that include characters commonly used in transliteration of non-roman languages. How would I be able to obtain those fonts? If you're talking about characters that are available precomposed in Unicode, Arial Unicode (from Microsoft) or Plane2000 (only if the licensing on the first one is unacceptable - it's much lower quality) will include all the characters. There are several well-populated Unicode fonts that can do a reasonable job of rendering the pre-composed Latin characters which might be required, but some characters which are commonly used in transliteration are not pre-composed. Unicode has a range of characters called combining diacritics with which virtually any combination of base letter and diacritic can be encoded. (Display of such combined letter-with-diacritic characters is still in its infancy.) In order to determine which of the available fonts best suits your group's needs, please visit the web site of Alan Wood. Mr. Wood has done an excellent job of organizing his site, which includes links to many downloadable fonts, and a list of those fonts sorted by the Unicode ranges supported. http://www.hclrss.demon.co.uk/unicode/index.html Hope this helps. Best regards, James Kass.
[OT] o-circumflex
How do Francophones view the o-circumflex ô in relation to the letter o? Is it a distinct grapheme, or is it considered a variant of o? - Peter --- Peter Constable Non-Roman Script Initiative, SIL International 7500 W. Camp Wisdom Rd., Dallas, TX 75236, USA Tel: +1 972 708 7485 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] o-circumflex
Is it a distinct grapheme, or is it considered a variant of o? I would say it is a variant of o we just called it... o with a circumflex accent (o avec un accent circonflex). The difference between o and ô is normally audible (for a French speaker). The relationship is the same than with any other letter which sometimes have accents (e.g. a and à, e and è, etc.). The only little thing to know about French and diacritical mark is that when doing a sort diacritical mark are evaluated from right to left. (e.g. cote côte coté vs the English order cote coté côte ). I'm just talking as a French Francophone not a linguist. May be someone on this list knows why diacritical marks are sorted in French in such a funky way :). Cheers, Thierry www.i18ngurus.com - Open Internationalization Resources Directory - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 3:08 PM Subject: [OT] o-circumflex How do Francophones view the o-circumflex ô in relation to the letter o? Is it a distinct grapheme, or is it considered a variant of o? - Peter --- Peter Constable Non-Roman Script Initiative, SIL International 7500 W. Camp Wisdom Rd., Dallas, TX 75236, USA Tel: +1 972 708 7485 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
OT Nastaleeq conforming to Unicode
A few days ago I posted following message which was received well and I received quite a few responses. But as I was on vacation, I only breifly reviewed some of the messages and somehow, in the meanwhile, all the messages got deleted before I could respond or even save these. I apologize for the inconveniece, and request you to kindly resend your messages to me so that I can respond to you individually. Thanks regards. Abdul-Majid Bhurgri I have developed a prototype Nastaleeq (Urdu) font of the same qualityas the currently available Nastaleeq fonts used for typesetting, whichalso conforms to the Unicode Standards and OpenType specs and as suchworks smoothly in MSWindows and multilingual Windows applications (MSWord, Excel, Access etc.)Completion of the project, needs time and resources. Anyone interestedmay contact me at [EMAIL PROTECTED]Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: [OT] o-circumflex
On Thu, Sep 06, 2001 at 04:03:07PM +0200, Thierry Sourbier wrote: The only little thing to know about French and diacritical mark is that when doing a sort diacritical mark are evaluated from right to left. (e.g. cote côte coté vs the English order cote coté côte ). I'm not sure there is an established English sort order. It's not a problem that comes up much in English. -- David Starner - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pointless website: http://dvdeug.dhis.org I don't care if Bill personally has my name and reads my email and laughs at me. In fact, I'd be rather honored. - Joseph_Greg
Re: [OT] o-circumflex
My impression is that at least in U.S. states, which are more heavily populated by native Spanish speakers, the one diacritic, which is frequently viewed by English speakers as non-optional to differentiate two words (specifically proper names) is the tilde as used for the eñe. There is a college in Redwood City, CA, which is called Cañada College and, which is off of Cañada Road. I haven't checked thoroughly, but I believe most road signs there use the eñe. I do know of one highway exit in the area though which spells it Canada College. Alex.
Re: [OT] o-circumflex
David Starner wrote: Yes, but I mean for cote, côte, and coté. How would you sort those three in English? I'd probably sort it by some extra-lingual information: i.e. page number, date of birth or the like. Store them as UTF-8, do a DOS sort, and call the results the new World order? Best regards, James Kass.
Re: OT Nastaleeq conforming to Unicode
Hi Abdul-Majid, I'd be very interested in hearing more about your font development project. Andj. At 10:53 AM 9/6/01 -0700, Majid Bhurgri wrote: A few days ago I posted following message which was received well and I received quite a few responses. But as I was on vacation, I only breifly reviewed some of the messages and somehow, in the meanwhile, all the messages got deleted before I could respond or even save these. I apologize for the inconveniece, and request you to kindly resend your messages to me so that I can respond to you individually. Thanks regards. Abdul-Majid Bhurgri I have developed a prototype Nastaleeq (Urdu) font of the same quality as the currently available Nastaleeq fonts used for typesetting, which also conforms to the Unicode Standards and OpenType specs and as such works smoothly in MSWindows and multilingual Windows applications (MS Word, Excel, Access etc.) Completion of the project, needs time and resources. Anyone interested may contact me at http://lw2fd.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/compose?curmbox=F1a=26b2c2aca 40ca330d18d7dd54bab6734mailto=1[EMAIL PROTECTED]msg=MSG999774807.4 start=2361053len=3196src=type=x[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 'http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag_itl_EN.asp'http://explorer.msn.com
Grand Unified Syllabary Project Opens
The Grand Unified Syllabary project has the primary objective to map the natural (non-composition based) syllabaries of Unicode onto a common linguistic frame of reference. The target frame of reference is a CVCT table (consonant-vowel-consonant-tone) applying IPA rules for the phonemic mapping of the symbols. Such a table that defined the component properties of syllables, it is assumed, would serve as a reference for: * syllabic character classes * regular expression languages * transliteration between syllabaries and other writing systems * phonetic based and script independent input methods GUS furthers the development of Syllables.txt data file introduced with Perl 5.6. Orthography experts are still in great need for the Yi, Canadian Aboriginal, Cherokee, Katakana and Hiragana syllabaries. More information, and an development email list can be found on the project homepage: http://syllabary.sourceforge.net/ /Daniel
Anouncement: ATypI Font Technology Forum, Copenhagen
ATypI Font Technology Forum 2001 Radisson SAS Falconer Hotel Conference Center Falkoner Alle 9, DK-2000 Frederiksberg Copenhagen, Denmark Thursday September 20, 9:00 am to 4:00 pm (coffee from 8:30 am) Following the success of last year's font technology forum in Leipzig, the event has been brought under the umbrella of the Association Typographique Internationale, and this year's forum is being organised as an initiative of the newly resurrected ATypI Technology Committee (co-chairs John Hudson and Wm Ross Mills). The focus of this year's forum is 'Building International Fonts', but the presentations will provide much of interest to all font developers, regardless of their involvement with multilingual typography and software internationalisation. Topics and speakers include: Unicode for Font Developers. Eric Muller Thomas Phinney, Adobe (presented by Thomas Phinney) Briefing: Unicode in OSX. Peter Lofting, Apple Briefing: Unicode in Windows Xp. Simon Daniels, Microsoft Managing Large Glyph Sets. John Hudson, Tiro Typeworks Spec'ing OpenType Fonts. David Lemon, Adobe New OpenType Features in InDesign. Thomas Phinney, Adobe Reality Bytes. Making Fonts for Central Europe. Adam Twardoch, Silesian Type Foundry Automated Arabic. Thomas Milo, DecoType, and Yuri Yarmola, FontLab And again. And again. Scripting repetitive tasks during font production. Adam Twardoch, Silesian Type Foundry The presentations will end with with an interim report on the ATypI Technology Committee initiative to develop, in partnership with font technology and tool developers, an industry recommendation for XML-based representation of font data. The forum will conclude with a QA panel session. Registration for the forum is 45 GBP and includes a light lunch. To register for the forum and for the main ATypI conference on the following days, please visit the ATypI website at www.atypi.org. Questions about the forum content can be addressed to John Hudson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Questions about forum registration, or about the ATypI conference, should be addessed to Sharon Irving at [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Tiro Typeworks www.tiro.com Vancouver, BC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Type is something that you can pick up and hold in your hand. - Harry Carter
RE: Grand Unified Syllabary Project Opens
So, do I use ra, ri, ru, re, ro, or do I use la, li, lu, le, lo? rubyrb$B$8$e$&$$$C$A$c$s(B/rbrp(/rprtJuuitchan/rtrp)/rp/ruby Well, I guess what you say is true, I could never be the right kind of girl for you, I could never be your woman - White Town --- Original Message --- $B:9=P?M(B: "Daniel Yacob,,," [EMAIL PROTECTED]; $B08@h(B: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Cc: $BF|;~(B: 01/09/07 2:13 $B7oL>(B: Grand Unified Syllabary Project Opens The Grand Unified Syllabary project has the primary objective to map the natural (non-composition based) syllabaries of Unicode onto a common linguistic frame of reference. The target frame of reference is a CVCT table (consonant-vowel-consonant-tone) applying IPA rules for the phonemic mapping of the symbols. Such a table that defined the component properties of syllables, it is assumed, would serve as a reference for: * syllabic character classes * regular expression languages * transliteration between syllabaries and other writing systems * phonetic based and script independent input methods GUS furthers the development of "Syllables.txt" data file introduced with Perl 5.6. Orthography experts are still in great need for the Yi, Canadian Aboriginal, Cherokee, Katakana and Hiragana syllabaries. More information, and an development email list can be found on the project homepage: http://syllabary.sourceforge.net/ /Daniel
RE: Grand Unified Syllabary Project Opens
So, do I use ra, ri, ru, re, ro, or do I use la, li, lu, le, lo? rubyrb$B$8$e$&$$$C$A$c$s(B/rbrp(/rprtJuuitchan/rtrp)/rp/ruby Well, I guess what you say is true, I could never be the right kind of girl for you, I could never be your woman - White Town --- Original Message --- $B:9=P?M(B: "Daniel Yacob,,," [EMAIL PROTECTED]; $B08@h(B: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Cc: $BF|;~(B: 01/09/07 2:13 $B7oL>(B: Grand Unified Syllabary Project Opens The Grand Unified Syllabary project has the primary objective to map the natural (non-composition based) syllabaries of Unicode onto a common linguistic frame of reference. The target frame of reference is a CVCT table (consonant-vowel-consonant-tone) applying IPA rules for the phonemic mapping of the symbols. Such a table that defined the component properties of syllables, it is assumed, would serve as a reference for: * syllabic character classes * regular expression languages * transliteration between syllabaries and other writing systems * phonetic based and script independent input methods GUS furthers the development of "Syllables.txt" data file introduced with Perl 5.6. Orthography experts are still in great need for the Yi, Canadian Aboriginal, Cherokee, Katakana and Hiragana syllabaries. More information, and an development email list can be found on the project homepage: http://syllabary.sourceforge.net/ /Daniel
RE: [OT] o-circumflex
Sorry about the kana. My mailer is Japanese. rubyrb$B$8$e$&$$$C$A$c$s(B/rbrp(/rprtJuuitchan/rtrp)/rp/ruby Well, I guess what you say is true, I could never be the right kind of girl for you, I could never be your woman - White Town --- Original Message --- $B:9=P?M(B: "Ayers, Mike" [EMAIL PROTECTED]; $B08@h(B: 'David Starner' [EMAIL PROTECTED];[EMAIL PROTECTED]; Cc: $BF|;~(B: 01/09/06 21:12 $B7oL>(B: RE: [OT] o-circumflex From: David Starner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 01:40 PM On Thu, Sep 06, 2001 at 04:03:07PM +0200, Thierry Sourbier wrote: The only little thing to know about French and diacritical mark is that when doing a sort diacritical mark are evaluated from right to left. (e.g. "cote" "c$B%F%((Bte" "cot$B%F%%(B" vs the English order "cote" "cot$B%F%%(B" "c$B%F%((Bte" ). I'm not sure there is an established English sort order. It's not a problem that comes up much in English. I believe that there is an established sort order in English, which is to sort without regard to diacritics, or else we'd never find the words! In English (American English more than British English), diacritics are considered optional, and it is common to see "na$B%`MW(Be" written "naive", "San Jos$B%F%%(B" written "San Jose", etc. Especially amongst Americans, the two are considered equivalent, and I know of no word pair in all of English which is separated only by a diacritic. I believe that the origin of the problem is the typewriter / word-processor. The English typewriter / word-processor is only designed to handle 26 letters (52 if you count case). Diacritics are impossible on a typewriter and very difficult on a word processor. In handwriting, the problem is non-existent. Think of Tendou Kasumi getting the medical scholarship she always wanted, and getting to study abroad. She would likely e-mail her old friends / family in romaji, but snail-mail them in kana / kanji. I like the freedom of a pen, so I can write kana and even draw. As for your word pair: 1. To continue after a pause 2. Curriculum vitae If only technology did not change the way we write like it does. And why should not "o with accent" be considered as different from "o" as either is, say, from "u"? If that is the case: "R" is "P with stroke" (hiragana) "Ho" is "ha with stroke" "Ru" is "Ro with loop" (Thai) "five" is "four with loop" and... my favorite... Latin "G" is "C" with stroke, and history WILL back me on that one! /|/|ike
