Re: [UC] Sherrod, and straw man technique

[Anthony West]

I don't know about that. Thomas argues that all Jews which immigrated 
lawfully to Palestine/Israel during the 20th century (and, presumably, 
their descendants to the fourth generation) should go "back" to Eastern 
Europe.


By the same leap of logic, all ethnic groups which immigrated lawfully 
to the United States during the 20th century (and, presumably, their 
descendants to the fourth generation) should go "back" to Eastern 
Europe. All right, you Chinamen and Italians and Ethiopians ... go back 
to that shtetl in Slovakia where you belong!


Thomas is an old and sloppy thinker. Sherrod is a young and evolving 
thinker. Huge difference in my book.


-- Tony West


recently, helen thomas lost her job when the same thing happened to 
her. like sherrod, her comments were distorted and she was vilified by 
sound bites and hair-trigger reactions. (for starters, thomas was 
asked about 'israel', but almost every headline had her talking about 
'jews'. big distinction! but a viral holocaust card will trump 
everything, no question.)


if sherrod is given different treatment than thomas as a result of 
media-created firestorms and politically-fueled agendas, we are, 
unfortunately, back to square one: racism.


UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN




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Re: [UC] Sherrod, and straw man technique

[UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN]

Kimm Tynan wrote:


Amen, Wilma.


"Wilma de Soto" wrote:

The Sherrod incident is troublesome on many fronts.






recently, helen thomas lost her job when the same thing 
happened to her. like sherrod, her comments were distorted 
and she was vilified by sound bites and hair-trigger 
reactions. (for starters, thomas was asked about 'israel', 
but almost every headline had her talking about 'jews'. big 
distinction! but a viral holocaust card will trump 
everything, no question.)


if sherrod is given different treatment than thomas as a 
result of media-created firestorms and politically-fueled 
agendas, we are, unfortunately, back to square one: racism.








(not disagreeing with any of the 'wows' or 'geez' here, just 
adding another note, one year after obama's 'teachable 
moment' beer summit that was supposed to put dialog before 
reaction.)


..
UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN
























































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Re: [UC]Deceptive blame was Sherrod, and straw man technique

[Wilma de Soto]

I know there was a ³Parents Who Write Letters to Obama², march on Washington
this summer.  I¹ll try to get the date.


On 7/23/10 1:57 PM, "Glenn"  wrote:

> Yes, she is the type of strong leader we need.  And she is right! Public
> education is a civil right and the foundation of a republic.
> 
> If the students and teachers march on Harrisburg or Washington, I'll march
> with you!
> 
> Glenn
> 
> On 7/23/2010 1:12 PM, Wilma de Soto wrote:
>>  Re: [UC]Deceptive blame was Sherrod, and straw man technique Glenn,
>>  
>> There is hope on the horizon:
>>  
>> Karen Lewis New Chicago Teachers¹ Union President really kicked butt at the
>> AFT Convention in Seattle.
>>  
>> Here¹s her acceptance speech from June:
>>  
>>  
>>  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42TtWpO9vf0
>>  
>>  
>> On 7/23/10 12:41 PM, "Glenn" 
>>   wrote:
>>  
>>   
>>> "Michelle Rhee Chancellor of Schools in Washington, D.C. has just fired a
>>> lot of teachers based on students¹ test scores.  Amazingly she has procured
>>> $20 million for the schools from the private sector, but here¹s the rub: no
>>> one gets a cent unless SHE is Chancellor of Schools.
>>>  
>>> Talk about a stacked deck, securing YOUR job, while ensuring others lose
>>> theirs for specious reasons."
>>>  
>>>  
>>> Wilma,
>>>  
>>> For many years, I studied the delivery of addiction services (social work)
>>> and the jobs of front line workers.  Like teachers, they were scapegoats
>>> through the same type of simplistic focus on flawed assessments to distract
>>> from the failed policies and the sabotage of their profession.  Destroying a
>>> public behavioral health care system was the ultimate goal, just like
>>> destroying a public education system is the goal of No Child Left
>>> Behind/Race to the top.
>>>  
>>> Substance abuse counselors are blamed and evaluated only for the drug use of
>>> clients and evaluated on pathetic paperwork checklists.  AND THE REAL POLICY
>>> FAILURES ARE NEVER LOOKED AT!  I believe the comparison of these two
>>> professions is very important and warrants serious discussion!
>>>  
>>>  
 >From a feminist perspective, the two professions can be looked at as
 traditional woman's work in a patriarchal system.  Consequently, both vital
 professions have been traditionally undervalued and receive low pay.  But
 the condescending ideology from the elite researchers in the fields leads
 to two important structural problems, which are not understood by the
 general public.
>>>  
>>>  
>>> First is the failure to create the structures for individuals to develop as
>>> professionals.  (Both professions lose an extraordinary number of young
>>> professionals in the early years.)   Second is the refusal to allow the
>>> ancillary services necessary to improve outcomes among the population with
>>> multiple and complex issues.
>>>  
>>> It is not the front line workers who are lazy idiots, but the elite policy
>>> makers who ask for water to be made from wine  We, the people, need to
>>> understand why outcomes are less than ideal when the systems and individuals
>>> are sabotaged.  We have the grapes and the wine press, and poor outcomes
>>> come from poor policy.
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> Public school teachers and social workers in public systems are not
>>> generally engaged like other respected professionals.  They deal with
>>> complex problems but their jobs leave them immediately isolated in complex
>>> situations.  Trainings and manuals tend to be useless and condescending.
>>> They have no built in structure to allow them to be researcher
>>> practitioners.  They don't have journal clubs, mentors or collaborations
>>> with other professionals to advance themselves or their field.  The
>>> continuing development structures for other respected professionals are the
>>> right way to engage a developing professional! Teachers and social workers
>>> are told to develop in isolation by studying condescending and useless
>>> interventions by elite researchers.
>>>  
>>> As for making wine from water- Addiction therapists are told to keep their
>>> homeless, depressed, unemployed clients with low literacy skills from using
>>> drugs.  When they don't, they are blamed for being lazy and stupid, like
>>> teachers who have children with multiple life issues. (The systems have no
>>> way to coordinate the care for the individuals being served.  By not
>>> addressing the child's problems in one area; poor outcomes in other areas
>>> like reading will emerge.)
>>>  
>>> Using ridiculous measures to blame front line workers is a deliberate
>>> distraction from the underlying structural problems in the systems. Should
>>> teachers and social workers continue to accept blame in the midst of such
>>> broken systems and the failure of the elites to stand up and educate the
>>> general public about the real reasons for less than ideal outcomes???
>>>  
>>> I think front line workers in these two fields need t

Re: [UC] The State of University City, and What's Next

[Glenn]

C'mon Craig.  Why would anyone listen to that crap if we weren't 
expecting some attack from UCD?  That stuff is as painful as an FOCP or 
SHCA dog and pony show.  Hell, their executives don't consider most of 
us to be PEOPLE.  Until they apologize for their contempt and offer 
truth and reconciliation to the people of this neighborhood, they can 
stuff their marketing where the sun don't shine.


The UCD is a tremendous embarrassment to thinking people of our community!

Your BFF,
Glenn

On 7/23/2010 11:27 AM, craigso...@aol.com wrote:

Did anyone attend this presentation and/or report back?
Monday, June 28, - June 4:00- 6:00 p.m. - "The State of University 
City, and What's Next 
," World 
Cafe live, 3025 Walnut St.

Ciao,
Craig



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02:36:00

   

Re: [UC]Deceptive blame was Sherrod, and straw man technique

[Glenn]

Yes, she is the type of strong leader we need.  And she is right!  
Public education is a civil right and the foundation of a republic.


If the students and teachers march on Harrisburg or Washington, I'll 
march with you!


Glenn

On 7/23/2010 1:12 PM, Wilma de Soto wrote:

Glenn,

There is hope on the horizon:

Karen Lewis New Chicago Teachers' Union President really kicked butt 
at the AFT Convention in Seattle.


Here's her acceptance speech from June:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42TtWpO9vf0


On 7/23/10 12:41 PM, "Glenn"  wrote:

"Michelle Rhee Chancellor of Schools in Washington, D.C. has just
fired a lot of teachers based on students' test scores.  Amazingly
she has procured $20 million for the schools from the private
sector, but here's the rub: no one gets a cent unless SHE is
Chancellor of Schools.

Talk about a stacked deck, securing YOUR job, while ensuring
others lose theirs for specious reasons."


Wilma,

For many years, I studied the delivery of addiction services
(social work) and the jobs of front line workers.  Like teachers,
they were scapegoats through the same type of simplistic focus on
flawed assessments to distract from the failed policies and the
sabotage of their profession.  Destroying a public behavioral
health care system was the ultimate goal, just like destroying a
public education system is the goal of No Child Left Behind/Race
to the top.

Substance abuse counselors are blamed and evaluated only for the
drug use of clients and evaluated on pathetic paperwork
checklists.  AND THE REAL POLICY FAILURES ARE NEVER LOOKED AT!  I
believe the comparison of these two professions is very important
and warrants serious discussion!


>From a feminist perspective, the two professions can be looked at
as traditional woman's work in a patriarchal system.
 Consequently, both vital professions have been traditionally
undervalued and receive low pay.  But the condescending ideology
from the elite researchers in the fields leads to two important
structural problems, which are not understood by the general public.


First is the failure to create the structures for individuals to
develop as professionals.  (Both professions lose an extraordinary
number of young professionals in the early years.)   Second is the
refusal to allow the ancillary services necessary to improve
outcomes among the population with multiple and complex issues.

It is not the front line workers who are lazy idiots, but the
elite policy makers who ask for water to be made from wine
 We, the people, need to understand why outcomes are less than
ideal when the systems and individuals are sabotaged.  We have the
grapes and the wine press, and poor outcomes come from poor policy.



Public school teachers and social workers in public systems are
not generally engaged like other respected professionals.  They
deal with complex problems but their jobs leave them immediately
isolated in complex situations.  Trainings and manuals tend to be
useless and condescending.  They have no built in structure to
allow them to be researcher practitioners.  They don't have
journal clubs, mentors or collaborations with other professionals
to advance themselves or their field.  The continuing development
structures for other respected professionals are the right way to
engage a developing professional! Teachers and social workers are
told to develop in isolation by studying condescending and useless
interventions by elite researchers.

As for making wine from water- Addiction therapists are told to
keep their homeless, depressed, unemployed clients with low
literacy skills from using drugs.  When they don't, they are
blamed for being lazy and stupid, like teachers who have children
with multiple life issues. (The systems have no way to coordinate
the care for the individuals being served.  By not addressing the
child's problems in one area; poor outcomes in other areas like
reading will emerge.)

Using ridiculous measures to blame front line workers is a
deliberate distraction from the underlying structural problems in
the systems. Should teachers and social workers continue to accept
blame in the midst of such broken systems and the failure of the
elites to stand up and educate the general public about the real
reasons for less than ideal outcomes???

I think front line workers in these two fields need to act up and
fight back in solidarity!

Glenn
PS: Yes the corporate vultures are ready to profit from the
sabotage of front line workers!




On 7/23/2010 11:20 AM, Wilma de Soto wrote:

Michelle Rhee Chancellor of Schools in Washington, D.C. has
just fired a lot of teachers based on students' test scores.
 Amazingly she has procured $20 

Re: [UC]Deceptive blame was Sherrod, and straw man technique

[Wilma de Soto]

Glenn,

There is hope on the horizon:

Karen Lewis New Chicago Teachers¹ Union President really kicked butt at the
AFT Convention in Seattle.

Here¹s her acceptance speech from June:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42TtWpO9vf0


On 7/23/10 12:41 PM, "Glenn"  wrote:

> "Michelle Rhee Chancellor of Schools in Washington, D.C. has just fired a lot
> of teachers based on students¹ test scores.  Amazingly she has procured $20
> million for the schools from the private sector, but here¹s the rub: no one
> gets a cent unless SHE is Chancellor of Schools.
> 
> Talk about a stacked deck, securing YOUR job, while ensuring others lose
> theirs for specious reasons."
> 
> 
> Wilma,
> 
> For many years, I studied the delivery of addiction services (social work) and
> the jobs of front line workers.  Like teachers, they were scapegoats through
> the same type of simplistic focus on flawed assessments to distract from the
> failed policies and the sabotage of their profession.  Destroying a public
> behavioral health care system was the ultimate goal, just like destroying a
> public education system is the goal of No Child Left Behind/Race to the top.
> 
> Substance abuse counselors are blamed and evaluated only for the drug use of
> clients and evaluated on pathetic paperwork checklists.  AND THE REAL POLICY
> FAILURES ARE NEVER LOOKED AT!  I believe the comparison of these two
> professions is very important and warrants serious discussion!
> 
> 
> From a feminist perspective, the two professions can be looked at as
> traditional woman's work in a patriarchal system.  Consequently, both vital
> professions have been traditionally undervalued and receive low pay.  But the
> condescending ideology from the elite researchers in the fields leads to two
> important structural problems, which are not understood by the general public.
> 
> 
> First is the failure to create the structures for individuals to develop as
> professionals.  (Both professions lose an extraordinary number of young
> professionals in the early years.)   Second is the refusal to allow the
> ancillary services necessary to improve outcomes among the population with
> multiple and complex issues.
> 
> It is not the front line workers who are lazy idiots, but the elite policy
> makers who ask for water to be made from wine  We, the people, need to
> understand why outcomes are less than ideal when the systems and individuals
> are sabotaged.  We have the grapes and the wine press, and poor outcomes come
> from poor policy.
> 
> 
> 
> Public school teachers and social workers in public systems are not generally
> engaged like other respected professionals.  They deal with complex problems
> but their jobs leave them immediately isolated in complex situations.
> Trainings and manuals tend to be useless and condescending.  They have no
> built in structure to allow them to be researcher practitioners.  They don't
> have journal clubs, mentors or collaborations with other professionals to
> advance themselves or their field.  The continuing development structures for
> other respected professionals are the right way to engage a developing
> professional! Teachers and social workers are told to develop in isolation by
> studying condescending and useless interventions by elite researchers.
> 
> As for making wine from water- Addiction therapists are told to keep their
> homeless, depressed, unemployed clients with low literacy skills from using
> drugs.  When they don't, they are blamed for being lazy and stupid, like
> teachers who have children with multiple life issues. (The systems have no way
> to coordinate the care for the individuals being served.  By not addressing
> the child's problems in one area; poor outcomes in other areas like reading
> will emerge.)
> 
> Using ridiculous measures to blame front line workers is a deliberate
> distraction from the underlying structural problems in the systems. Should
> teachers and social workers continue to accept blame in the midst of such
> broken systems and the failure of the elites to stand up and educate the
> general public about the real reasons for less than ideal outcomes???
> 
> I think front line workers in these two fields need to act up and fight back
> in solidarity!
> 
> Glenn
> PS: Yes the corporate vultures are ready to profit from the sabotage of front
> line workers!  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 7/23/2010 11:20 AM, Wilma de Soto wrote:
>> Michelle Rhee Chancellor of Schools in Washington, D.C. has just fired a lot
>> of teachers based on students¹ test scores.  Amazingly she has procured $20
>> million for the schools from the private sector, but here¹s the rub: no one
>> gets a cent unless SHE is Chancellor of Schools.
>>  
>> Talk about a stacked deck, securing YOUR job, while ensuring others lose
>> theirs for specious reasons.
>>  
> 

Re: [UC]Deceptive blame was Sherrod, and straw man technique

[Glenn]

"Michelle Rhee Chancellor of Schools in Washington, D.C. has just fired 
a lot of teachers based on students' test scores.  Amazingly she has 
procured $20 million for the schools from the private sector, but here's 
the rub: no one gets a cent unless SHE is Chancellor of Schools.


Talk about a stacked deck, securing YOUR job, while ensuring others lose 
theirs for specious reasons."



Wilma,

For many years, I studied the delivery of addiction services (social 
work) and the jobs of front line workers.  Like teachers, they were 
scapegoats through the same type of simplistic focus on flawed 
assessments to distract from the failed policies and the sabotage of 
their profession.  Destroying a public behavioral health care system was 
the ultimate goal, just like destroying a public education system is the 
goal of No Child Left Behind/Race to the top.


Substance abuse counselors are blamed and evaluated only for the drug 
use of clients and evaluated on pathetic paperwork checklists.  AND THE 
REAL POLICY FAILURES ARE NEVER LOOKED AT!  I believe the comparison of 
these two professions is very important and warrants serious discussion!



From a feminist perspective, the two professions can be looked at as 
traditional woman's work in a patriarchal system.  Consequently, both 
vital professions have been traditionally undervalued and receive low 
pay.  But the condescending ideology from the elite researchers in the 
fields leads to two important structural problems, which are not 
understood by the general public.



First is the failure to create the structures for individuals to develop 
as professionals.  (Both professions lose an extraordinary number of 
young professionals in the early years.)   Second is the refusal to 
allow the ancillary services necessary to improve outcomes among the 
population with multiple and complex issues.


It is not the front line workers who are lazy idiots, but the elite 
policy makers who ask for water to be made from wine  We, the 
people, need to understand why outcomes are less than ideal when the 
systems and individuals are sabotaged.  We have the grapes and the wine 
press, and poor outcomes come from poor policy.




Public school teachers and social workers in public systems are not 
generally engaged like other respected professionals.  They deal with 
complex problems but their jobs leave them immediately isolated in 
complex situations.  Trainings and manuals tend to be useless and 
condescending.  They have no built in structure to allow them to be 
researcher practitioners.  They don't have journal clubs, mentors or 
collaborations with other professionals to advance themselves or their 
field.  The continuing development structures for other respected 
professionals are the right way to engage a developing professional!  
Teachers and social workers are told to develop in isolation by studying 
condescending and useless interventions by elite researchers.


As for making wine from water- Addiction therapists are told to keep 
their homeless, depressed, unemployed clients with low literacy skills 
from using drugs.  When they don't, they are blamed for being lazy and 
stupid, like teachers who have children with multiple life issues.  (The 
systems have no way to coordinate the care for the individuals being 
served.  By not addressing the child's problems in one area; poor 
outcomes in other areas like reading will emerge.)


Using ridiculous measures to blame front line workers is a deliberate 
distraction from the underlying structural problems in the systems.  
Should teachers and social workers continue to accept blame in the midst 
of such broken systems and the failure of the elites to stand up and 
educate the general public about the real reasons for less than ideal 
outcomes???


I think front line workers in these two fields need to act up and fight 
back in solidarity!


Glenn
PS: Yes the corporate vultures are ready to profit from the sabotage of 
front line workers!





On 7/23/2010 11:20 AM, Wilma de Soto wrote:
Michelle Rhee Chancellor of Schools in Washington, D.C. has just fired 
a lot of teachers based on students' test scores.  Amazingly she has 
procured $20 million for the schools from the private sector, but 
here's the rub: no one gets a cent unless SHE is Chancellor of Schools.


Talk about a stacked deck, securing YOUR job, while ensuring others 
lose theirs for specious reasons.

[UC] The State of University City, and What's Next

[Craigsolve]

Did anyone attend this presentation and/or report back?
 
Monday, June 28, - June 4:00- 6:00 p.m. - "_The State of University City, 
and What's Next_ (http://my.pennfuture.org/site/R?i=a1NpkOcoCLyf3s_T2r_1Dw..) 
," World Cafe  live, 3025 Walnut St. 
 
Ciao,
 
Craig

Re: [UC] Sherrod, and straw man technique

[Wilma de Soto]

Thanks for the link, Glenn.

Michelle Rhee Chancellor of Schools in Washington, D.C. has just fired a lot
of teachers based on students¹ test scores.  Amazingly she has procured $20
million for the schools from the private sector, but here¹s the rub: no one
gets a cent unless SHE is Chancellor of Schools.

Talk about a stacked deck, securing YOUR job, while ensuring others lose
theirs for specious reasons.


On 7/23/10 8:58 AM, "Glenn"  wrote:

> "These people have declared people of color as Enemy of the State and are
> getting away with it, including their crusade to shut down public education,
> ONLY in the poor inner-city mind you, and profiteer off poor people¹s children
> rendering them without any access to an education if they should be dropped by
> charter schools.
> 
> Charter schools by and large do not deal with English Language Learners,
> Special Ed. students and behavior problems.  Closing public schools and firing
> teachers because of test scores is not the answer."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wilma,
> 
> This clip corroborates your point exactly.  I see Ms. Ravitch as a whistle
> blower, confessing her own mistakes, from the Bush administration.
> 
> It's time for people of all backgrounds to condemn Obama's continuation of the
> very worst of no child left behind.  It has always been nothing but an all out
> attack on public education.  Public education, in poor districts, has been
> harmed for decades by stripping it of all support. Race to the Top ignores the
> funding gap and complete lack of support in the class based system and says
> "look at the problems"  Then, they continue to offer PRIVATIZATION as the only
> solution!
> 
> http://www.grittv.org/2010/07/20/ravitch-race-top-schools-charter/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 7/23/2010 8:34 AM, Wilma de Soto wrote:
>>  Re: [UC] Sherrod, and straw man technique The Obama Administration
>> apparently very afraid of any discussion about race,that they run the other
>> way whenever there is a hint of a race issue; especially after the Professor
>> Gates issue. While the race-baiting fearmongers in The Tea Party and FOX News
>> have no compunction whatsoever about using race as a political tool.
>>  
>> It¹s beyond time to call them out and stop letting them get away with it. I
>> wonder what would happen if 100 Black, Puerto Rican, Mexican or whatever
>> showed up at say a Pat Toomey rally openly brandishing guns as part of THEIR
>> Second Amendment rights.  If one idiot with a billy club can start such fear,
>> I cannot imagine what would happen.
>>  
>> These people have declared people of color as Enemy of the State and are
>> getting away with it, including their crusade to shut down public education,
>> ONLY in the poor inner-city mind you, and profiteer off poor people¹s
>> children rendering them without any access to an education if they should be
>> dropped by charter schools.
>>  
>> Charter schools by and large do not deal with English Language Learners,
>> Special Ed. students and behavior problems.  Closing public schools and
>> firing teachers because of test scores is not the answer.
>>  
>> By the way, someone I know who went to Tulane at the same time with Andrew
>> Breitbart, who by his own admission says he drank his way through college, is
>> pissed because he was a rich kid from Brentwood in LA and basically was
>> taking up a spot that could have been used by someone who would have actually
>> studied!
>>  
>> On 7/22/10 10:01 PM, "Kimm Tynan" 
>>   wrote:
>>  
>>   
>>>  
 The irony is he ended up proving that one false word from a White man
 with dubious credibility had the power to unjustly affect the livelihood of
 an African-American woman without due process, or no questions asked.
  
>>>  
>>> Amen, Wilma.
>>>  
>>> The NAACP thing is bizarre and sad because, institutionally, it had
>>> first-hand knowledge of what was actually said ­ she was talking to them!
>>> But I am far more disappointed in the Obama administration.  As her
>>> employer, as the federal government, it had far more of a duty to take a
>>> measured, rational approach.  The fact that they just freaked out like a
>>> massive jellyfish at the prospect of the story appearing on Glenn Beck and
>>> acted with no independent investigation, no due process, is deeply, deeply
>>> disturbing.
>>>  
>>> As soon as I first started hearing the first peeps about this story (I¹ve
>>> been very out-of-touch with the outside world the last few days), I thought,
>>> ³Wow ­ this sounds very ACORN-like.²  Then my husband informed me yesterday
>>> it was the same source.  Huh.  How Œbout that.
>>>  
>>> But, hey, what do I know ­ I¹m just a crazy commie lefty.
>>>  
>>> Kimm
>>>  
>>>  
>>> On 7/22/10 11:59 AM, "Wilma de Soto" 
>>>   wrote:
>>>  
>>>   
 The Sherrod incident is troublesome on many fronts.
  
 Andrew Breitbart stated on NBC News that he deliberately posted that
 mis-edited video

Re: [UC] Sherrod, and straw man technique

[Wilma de Soto]

Tony,

Apparently other journalists agree with you:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2010/07/the-breitbart-circus/601
37/


On 7/22/10 11:54 PM, "Anthony West"  wrote:

> What troubled me most was that it was an artfully crafted lie. Journalists,
> more than anybody, should understand and respect  the partiality of all who
> write. People are entitled to their opinions. But they are not entitled to lie
> in public, in a nasty way, solely to hurt other people. Even when such a deed
> is legally permitted, it is socially disgusting and shameful.
> 
> I agree with Rachel Maddow: broadcasts that are based on faked, crooked,
> doctored data aren't worthy of being printed. That's why editors call them
> "unprintable."
> 
> --Tony West
> 
> 
>>   Re: [UC] Sherrod, and straw man technique Amen, Wilma.
>>  
>> The NAACP thing is bizarre and sad because, institutionally, it had
>> first-hand knowledge of what was actually said ­ she was talking to them!
>> But I am far more disappointed in the Obama administration.  As her employer,
>> as the federal government, it had far more of a duty to take a measured,
>> rational approach.  The fact that they just freaked out like a massive
>> jellyfish at the prospect of the story appearing on Glenn Beck and acted with
>> no independent investigation, no due process, is deeply, deeply disturbing.
>>  
>> As soon as I first started hearing the first peeps about this story (I¹ve
>> been very out-of-touch with the outside world the last few days), I thought,
>> ³Wow ­ this sounds very ACORN-like.²  Then my husband informed me yesterday
>> it was the same source.  Huh.  How Œbout that.
>>  
>> But, hey, what do I know ­ I¹m just a crazy commie lefty.
>>  
>> Kimm
> 
> 

Re: [UC] Sherrod, and straw man technique

[Glenn]

"These people have declared people of color as Enemy of the State and 
are getting away with it, including their crusade to shut down public 
education, ONLY in the poor inner-city mind you, and profiteer off poor 
people's children rendering them without any access to an education if 
they should be dropped by charter schools.


Charter schools by and large do not deal with English Language Learners, 
Special Ed. students and behavior problems.  Closing public schools and 
firing teachers because of test scores is not the answer."





Wilma,

This clip corroborates your point exactly.  I see Ms. Ravitch as a 
whistle blower, confessing her own mistakes, from the Bush administration.


It's time for people of all backgrounds to condemn Obama's continuation 
of the very worst of no child left behind.  It has always been nothing 
but an all out attack on public education.  Public education, in poor 
districts, has been harmed for decades by stripping it of all support.  
Race to the Top ignores the funding gap and complete lack of support in 
the class based system and says "look at the problems"  Then, they 
continue to offer PRIVATIZATION as the only solution!


http://www.grittv.org/2010/07/20/ravitch-race-top-schools-charter/




On 7/23/2010 8:34 AM, Wilma de Soto wrote:
The Obama Administration apparently very afraid of any discussion 
about race,that they run the other way whenever there is a hint of a 
race issue; especially after the Professor Gates issue. While the 
race-baiting fearmongers in The Tea Party and FOX News have no 
compunction whatsoever about using race as a political tool.


It's beyond time to call them out and stop letting them get away with 
it. I wonder what would happen if 100 Black, Puerto Rican, Mexican or 
whatever showed up at say a Pat Toomey rally openly brandishing guns 
as part of THEIR Second Amendment rights.  If one idiot with a billy 
club can start such fear, I cannot imagine what would happen.


These people have declared people of color as Enemy of the State and 
are getting away with it, including their crusade to shut down public 
education, ONLY in the poor inner-city mind you, and profiteer off 
poor people's children rendering them without any access to an 
education if they should be dropped by charter schools.


Charter schools by and large do not deal with English Language 
Learners, Special Ed. students and behavior problems.  Closing public 
schools and firing teachers because of test scores is not the answer.


By the way, someone I know who went to Tulane at the same time with 
Andrew Breitbart, who by his own admission says he drank his way 
through college, is pissed because he was a rich kid from Brentwood in 
LA and basically was taking up a spot that could have been used by 
someone who would have actually studied!


On 7/22/10 10:01 PM, "Kimm Tynan"  wrote:

The irony is he ended up proving that one false word from a
White man with dubious credibility had the power to unjustly
affect the livelihood of an African-American woman without due
process, or no questions asked.


Amen, Wilma.

The NAACP thing is bizarre and sad because, institutionally, it
had first-hand knowledge of what was actually said -- she was
talking to them!  But I am far more disappointed in the Obama
administration.  As her employer, as the federal government, it
had far more of a duty to take a measured, rational approach.  The
fact that they just freaked out like a massive jellyfish at the
prospect of the story appearing on Glenn Beck and acted with no
independent investigation, no due process, is deeply, deeply
disturbing.

As soon as I first started hearing the first peeps about this
story (I've been very out-of-touch with the outside world the last
few days), I thought, "Wow -- this sounds very ACORN-like."  Then
my husband informed me yesterday it was the same source.  Huh.
 How 'bout that.

But, hey, what do I know -- I'm just a crazy commie lefty.

Kimm


On 7/22/10 11:59 AM, "Wilma de Soto"  wrote:

The Sherrod incident is troublesome on many fronts.

Andrew Breitbart stated on NBC News that he deliberately
posted that mis-edited video as, "retribution for The Tea
Party because of the NAACP's comment that The Tea Party should
check and distance itself from the racist elements in the
movement."  He wanted to "prove" the NAACP is racist.

Just because he felt like it, I guess.
The irony is he ended up proving that one false word from a
White man with dubious credibility had the power to unjustly
affect the livelihood of an African-American woman without due
process, or no questions asked.

It's a textbook case on racism.

My biggest disappointment was with Ben Jealous and the NAACP
rushing to condemn Ms. Sherrod, knowing her history so quickly
and 

Re: [UC] Sherrod, and straw man technique

[Wilma de Soto]

The Obama Administration apparently very afraid of any discussion about
race,that they run the other way whenever there is a hint of a race issue;
especially after the Professor Gates issue. While the race-baiting
fearmongers in The Tea Party and FOX News have no compunction whatsoever
about using race as a political tool.

It¹s beyond time to call them out and stop letting them get away with it. I
wonder what would happen if 100 Black, Puerto Rican, Mexican or whatever
showed up at say a Pat Toomey rally openly brandishing guns as part of THEIR
Second Amendment rights.  If one idiot with a billy club can start such
fear, I cannot imagine what would happen.

These people have declared people of color as Enemy of the State and are
getting away with it, including their crusade to shut down public education,
ONLY in the poor inner-city mind you, and profiteer off poor people¹s
children rendering them without any access to an education if they should be
dropped by charter schools.

Charter schools by and large do not deal with English Language Learners,
Special Ed. students and behavior problems.  Closing public schools and
firing teachers because of test scores is not the answer.

By the way, someone I know who went to Tulane at the same time with Andrew
Breitbart, who by his own admission says he drank his way through college,
is pissed because he was a rich kid from Brentwood in LA and basically was
taking up a spot that could have been used by someone who would have
actually studied!

On 7/22/10 10:01 PM, "Kimm Tynan"  wrote:

>> The irony is he ended up proving that one false word from a White man
>> with dubious credibility had the power to unjustly affect the livelihood of
>> an African-American woman without due process, or no questions asked.
> 
> Amen, Wilma.
> 
> The NAACP thing is bizarre and sad because, institutionally, it had first-hand
> knowledge of what was actually said ­ she was talking to them!  But I am far
> more disappointed in the Obama administration.  As her employer, as the
> federal government, it had far more of a duty to take a measured, rational
> approach.  The fact that they just freaked out like a massive jellyfish at the
> prospect of the story appearing on Glenn Beck and acted with no independent
> investigation, no due process, is deeply, deeply disturbing.
> 
> As soon as I first started hearing the first peeps about this story (I¹ve been
> very out-of-touch with the outside world the last few days), I thought, ³Wow ­
> this sounds very ACORN-like.²  Then my husband informed me yesterday it was
> the same source.  Huh.  How Œbout that.
> 
> But, hey, what do I know ­ I¹m just a crazy commie lefty.
> 
> Kimm
> 
> 
> On 7/22/10 11:59 AM, "Wilma de Soto"  wrote:
> 
>> The Sherrod incident is troublesome on many fronts.
>> 
>> Andrew Breitbart stated on NBC News that he deliberately posted that
>> mis-edited video as, "retribution for The Tea Party because of the NAACP's
>> comment that The Tea Party should check and distance itself from the racist
>> elements in the movement."  He wanted to "prove" the NAACP is racist.
>> 
>> Just because he felt like it, I guess.
>> The irony is he ended up proving that one false word from a White man with
>> dubious credibility had the power to unjustly affect the livelihood of an
>> African-American woman without due process, or no questions asked.
>> 
>> It's a textbook case on racism.
>> 
>> My biggest disappointment was with Ben Jealous and the NAACP rushing to
>> condemn Ms. Sherrod, knowing her history so quickly and playing into the
>> "white persons as victims of blacks card", that is the cornerstone of the
>> extreme right-wing movement.
>> 
>> Breitbart also showed since one false accusation by a White person against an
>> African-American and the subsequent reaction by the NAACP and The White House
>> Administration demonstrates clearly, that African-Americans have no control
>> over our lives; even if one of us is The President.  Racism is prejudice with
>> power to act on said targets of prejudice and affect the quality of their
>> lives.
>> 
>> 
>> On 7/22/10 9:40 AM, "Glenn moyer"  wrote:
>> 
>>> > Members of our listserv have had a great deal of experience, in past
>>> years, 
>>> > watching the straw man technique used against Ms. Sherrod of the USDA.
>>> > (Cutting and pasting words out of context is used to completely change the
>>> > intended meaning of the speaker.)
>>> > 
>>> > Then, a barking cheese gang (Fox News) is ready to run amok with the
>>> created 
>>> > straw woman to make the initial lie into the big lie (see Goebbels
>>> description 
>>> > of the big lie).
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > As in the Sherrod case, the creation of the straw man is usually done
>>> because 
>>> > the victims real meaning can not be defeated through logic and rational
>>> > arguments!  The power of the deceiving gang and repitition of the lie is
>>> > designed to overpower the individual victim, who has limited resources to
>>> > fight

Re: [UC] Sherrod, and straw man technique

[Glenn]

On 7/22/2010 10:01 PM, Kimm Tynan wrote:

Wow -- this sounds very ACORN-like.


And Acorn was completely destroyed with exactly the same technique and 
by the same propaganda machine!


Without justifying their rush to respond, I can completely understand 
why the USDA and NAACP made their mistake. They had a good reason to 
believe that this powerful media  machine would successfully destroy 
their entire organization, like Acorn was destroyed!   Until the 
American people upgrade their skills in logic and commitment to justice, 
it is very difficult for targets like NAACP to counter these attacks 
with an appropriate response.


When I was targeted in the "Glenn's Whores" series by Tony West, no one 
on this list stood up and condemned the same straw man technique.  I was 
defending the people of Clark Park and the people-like-creatures living 
west of 43rd St., when I was attacked by vile and evil lies cloaked as a 
straw man!   But  when I was defending myself to expose the straw man 
technique, I was told to shut-up and stop the "pissing contest."  (It 
wasn't the vile lies from the anointed that were unexpected.  But it 
really sucks when the common people ignore principles of justice, 
sacrificing a victim by denying him or her an opportunity to expose the 
truth!  Ms. Sherrod beat these attackers by standing up to them and 
defending her speech!  Would USDA or NAACP been attacked for not making 
an immediate response and engaging in a pissing contest???)


We allowed Acorn to be destroyed!  Acorn tried to stand up to vile and 
dishonest attacks and we failed them! This attack on Ms. Sherrod and the 
NAACP was done because of our continuous failure to condemn these 
techniques, their authors, and the propaganda machine using the tool of 
racism.


The people of Acorn and I probably understand the reaction of the USDA 
and NAACP somewhat differently!


Sincerely,
Glenn