[UC] Campus Inn not dead
From the DP: High demand for extended-stay hotels We believe leasing property to private developers can yield plans that are creative, befitting the local character, and drive economic activity, Datz wrote in an e-mail. A spokesperson from the Campus Inn declined to comment on the current status of the project http://media.www.dailypennsylvanian.com/media/storage/paper882/news/2009/10/09/News/High-Demand.For.ExtendedStay.Hotels-3798764.shtml?reffeature=htmlemailedition You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] Campus Inn
I don't dispute a word you say. There is, though, an old saying: The Supreme Court follows the election returns. Indeed, in the year 2000 it actually did decree the election returns. Surely both ZBA members and Court judges follow the election returns also. While perhaps they shouldn't, several UC-list posters have asserted City officials were responding to political and economic pressures every time they delivered a decision that didn't satisfy the Campus Inn's foes. Perhaps these critics were right. If I were advocating on behalf of a campaign against the 40th Pine development, then, I would prepare as good an argument as possible in favor of its development somewhere else. It can't hurt and it might help. Quite recently a Philadelphia Court judge dismissed as illegal a decision on the sale of Burholme Park land to Fox Chase Cancer Ctr. arrived at by Fairmount Park and City Council, a decision plainly based on politics and economics. So it can be done. I would not go so far, though, as to bet in advance on its being done. In that case, the City was trying to beat a will, which is much harder than trying to beat a zoning reg. The hijackers of the Barnes Foundation beat the plainest will in America -- but the value of the conquest of that bequest has been estimated at $2 billion, so it made sense for the City to spend $X million to beat it. Fox Chase wasn't worth that much, so less was spent and the case was lost at the initial hearing. Time will tell if the City does lose that one in the end. In the Campus Inn case, City money won't be spent on advocacy but it will still be consumed by litigation. Courts cost money and they are under tremendous pressure, just like libraries and recreation, to save money in FY 2008-09. They'll have a natural tendency toward outcomes that are cheaper, and also toward outcomes that yield more revenue. How to work this tendency? That's the $64 question. -- Tony West If ZBA does any of these things, and it certainly may, it is not following the law as set forth explicitly in the Philadelphia Code. Unlike the PCPC, which seems to have no formal guidelines at all and is apparently free to ignore its own earlier findings (e.g., The Plan for West Philadelphia which explicitly puts the southern end of the 40th Street Commercial Corridor at Locust Street), and the Historical Commission, which has rather vague guidelines and therefore has some room for interpretation and preference, results whose basis seems to be in that age-old maxim /de gustabus non disputandum est/ does not apply to zoning decisions. The Philadelphia Code is quite explicit about the criteria for granting a variance and about the burden of proof being on the applicant. To the extent that alleged value to the city, for instance, is factored into ZBA's deliberations, that administrative body is acting contrary to rather clearly stated law and is opening itself up to embarrassing rebuke in court. Al Krigman You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] Campus Inn
Indeed, Ray. And ZBA will undoubtedly attempt to answer this question in part by weighing the value of the project to the local and citywide economy. It's impossible to keep issues like these out of ZBA deliberations ... although they do not govern its decisions, they are surely factored in. Your determination that this project can easily be shifted somewhere else may play a role in ZBA's decision. However, Penn's determination will also play a role (it is, after all, closer to the project than you are). Suppose your determination and Penn's differ. Once again, it's unrealistic for you to think ZBA will admit your testimony on a large real-estate project while excluding Penn's. The notion of a site shift seems like a fruitful line of play, but simply jumping up at the hearing and saying, Aw, come on, Penn, you could build it anywhere! sounds shaky to me. I think proponents of a site shift would be well advised to do some of the heavy lifting themselves on this. But do it your way, if you think that's going to be more persuasive with ZBA. -- Tony West nice try, tony, but at this hour, the question is not whether a campus inn at 40th and pine can sustain or hamper the local economy -- not when penn owns so much other property on which to build a campus inn. and the question is not whether a zoning change at 40th and pine can sustain or hamper the economy -- not when penn owns so much other property with the zoning it needs. so you're still advocating for penn here, not 'just reporting'. the question today is whether a developer should change the existing zoning at 40th and pine, for a purchase that penn made 5 years ago, at the permanent expense of our neighborhood. .. UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] Campus Inn
In a message dated 12/28/2008 4:37:49 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, anthony_w...@earthlink.net writes: ZBA will undoubtedly attempt to answer this question in part by weighing the value of the project to the local and citywide economy. It's impossible to keep issues like these out of ZBA deliberations ... although they do not govern its decisions, they are surely factored in. Your determination that this project can easily be shifted somewhere else may play a role in ZBA's decision. However, Penn's determination will also play a role (it is, after all, closer to the project than you are). Suppose your determination and Penn's differ. Once again, it's unrealistic for you to think ZBA will admit your testimony on a large real-estate project while excluding Penn's. If ZBA does any of these things, and it certainly may, it is not following the law as set forth explicitly in the Philadelphia Code. Unlike the PCPC, which seems to have no formal guidelines at all and is apparently free to ignore its own earlier findings (e.g., The Plan for West Philadelphia which explicitly puts the southern end of the 40th Street Commercial Corridor at Locust Street), and the Historical Commission, which has rather vague guidelines and therefore has some room for interpretation and preference, results whose basis seems to be in that age-old maxim de gustabus non disputandum est does not apply to zoning decisions. The Philadelphia Code is quite explicit about the criteria for granting a variance and about the burden of proof being on the applicant. To the extent that alleged value to the city, for instance, is factored into ZBA's deliberations, that administrative body is acting contrary to rather clearly stated law and is opening itself up to embarrassing rebuke in court. Councilman Bill Green made an interesting statement with respect to a suit being brought by several members of Council (including Mrs Blackwell) to keep the mayor from closing branch libraries without Council approval -- in contrasting it with a citizens' suit to stop the closings. It was reported as in the Inquirer as follows: Yesterday's action follows a lawsuit filed Tuesday by seven city residents and the white-collar municipal union that also seeks to prevent Nutter from closing the libraries without Council permission. That lawsuit included anecdotal accounts of the plaintiffs' library use and described how they would be affected if the branches were closed. That's an emotional suit. This is dispassionate. It's a clear and very simple request of the court, which is to ask the Free Library board and the administration to comply with city law, Green said, adding that lawyers on his staff drafted the motion and would handle the court appearances as well. I think the analogy is quite clear and relevant. What's gone up until now has been emotional. Getting to the issue of zoning variances, the ZBA will either comply with city law on its own, or face the high likelihood that a court will instruct it to do so. Always at your service and ready for a diatribe -- er, dialog. Al Krigman **One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dpicid=aolcom40vanityncid=emlcntaolcom0025)
Re: [UC] Campus Inn
In a message dated 12/27/2008 12:47:31 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, campio...@juno.com writes: I don't yet have the words to properly express the depth of my disappointment and sense of betrayal that some SHCA Community Leaders are willing to cede the character of the neighborhood, near the Trolley Portal, while guaranteeing inconvenience and risking catastrophe. What an elegant bit of damnation by faint praise. Look at the people on the SHCA Board of Directors and think about the shameful way the organization's most recent election was held. The SHCA Community Leaders are, by and large, young newcomers who haven't a clue about the sensitivities of the folks who built the neighborhood by investing their lives in it while the flight to the suburbs was at its zenith. We certainly need youth and new ideas, but not leadership from people who don't understand but do disregard the people they're supposed to be leading. And, much as I hesitate to say it because it may sound like a rebuke to earnest and well-meaning people, many of the more long-standing members of the SHCA Board are there because the anointed know they'll either keep silent about things they don't like, or the deck has been stacked so if they speak up, it's ineffective (witness, for the latter, the impact or lack thereof of the two resignations over the decision to take a no-position position on the Campus Inn -- such that newcomer-puppet-president Ed Halligan could get away with the outright lie to the Historical Commission that SHCA was evenly split because the community was evenly split). Always at your service and ready for a diatribe -- er, dialog. Al Krigman **One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dpicid=aolcom40vanityncid=emlcntaolcom0025)
Re: [UC] Campus Inn
Liz, Truthfully to portray the chief concern of Philadelphia City government as 2009 is ushered in, is not advocating. It's just reporting. The chief concern of City government at this hour, like most other jurisdictions across America, is to sustain its local economy. If zoning regulation helps to sustain that economy, zoning will do quite well without my advocacy. If zoning regulation is perceived by local deciders to hamper this economy at this hour, then regulation enthusiasts face a challenge I recommend they respond to smartly. Guy has shown just such a sensible response. I can't speak to the nuts and bolts of his particular plan for 40th Pine, but he acknowledges the value of continued expansion of Penn to all Philadelphia. That's what critics of the Campus Inn need to do if they wish to be taken seriously by the deciders. UC-list is not a cross-sample of Philadelphia. 99% of Philadelphians today don't remember the taking of Spruce Hill to build the Superblock in the 1960s, which was University City's Nakba. Of those few who do remember, nobody outside this neighborhood gives a hoot any more. Black West Philly as a whole made out like a bandit from all the jobs generated by Penn's growth; it has generated two of the last four Mayors. Raising the specter of Demon Penn of course will foment us locals, but it's meaningless at the citywide level. In 2009, Philadelphia will need Demon Penn more than ever, because Demon Penn isn't broke. That doesn't mean Penn's neighbors have to roll over and wave their legs. But they should study the macroeconomics of keeping a big old Northeastern city alive, because that's where we all live. -- Tony West When you miss both my point, and the purpose of Zoning Regulation, by a mile, I read your response as advocating. I will continue to point out that the Zoning Codes, Historic Designation, Building Regulations and Height Restrictions all existed BEFORE the purchase. The Buyer - Owner has the burden of Due Diligence. The codes are designed to protect neighborhoods from 800# gorillas, whether they be Meat Packers, Soap Makers, or Universities. They are designed to protect neighborhoods from the arrogance or abuse that can follow money or overly aggressive ownership. Liz You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] Campus Inn
Anthony West wrote: Liz, Truthfully to portray the chief concern of Philadelphia City government as 2009 is ushered in, is not advocating. It's just reporting. The chief concern of City government at this hour, like most other jurisdictions across America, is to sustain its local economy. If zoning regulation helps to sustain that economy, zoning will do quite well without my advocacy. If zoning regulation is perceived by local deciders to hamper this economy at this hour, then regulation enthusiasts face a challenge I recommend they respond to smartly. nice try, tony, but at this hour, the question is not whether a campus inn at 40th and pine can sustain or hamper the local economy -- not when penn owns so much other property on which to build a campus inn. and the question is not whether a zoning change at 40th and pine can sustain or hamper the economy -- not when penn owns so much other property with the zoning it needs. so you're still advocating for penn here, not 'just reporting'. the question today is whether a developer should change the existing zoning at 40th and pine, for a purchase that penn made 5 years ago, at the permanent expense of our neighborhood. .. UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] Campus Inn
Liz, If Penn owns and retains the real estate, no matter what is built, then Penn is the developer to some degree. So it's ultimately Penn's call if any particular proposal would work or not. The world can attempt to persuade Penn to favor one business plan over another, but it can't dictate that business plan until it ponies up the monies that will relieve Penn of some of the burden of investing. Neighbors in the immediate environs of this proposal have every right to defend their existing zoning, regardless of whether it helps or hurts Philadelphia as a whole. If they can force Penn to abandon Plan A and move to Plan B, more power to them. When the City is wallowing in new growth and new revenue, it is easy for the City to assign top priority to neighborhood preservation. When decay is outpacing construction and revenue is declining, it is hard for the City to assign top priority to neighborhood preservation, in that rare case where someone actually wants to risk a big new business in any Philadelphia neighborhood. If it were up to me, I'd choose neighborhood preservation because I'm already comfortable here with things much as they are. But I don't cut City checks, and those who do may have a different take on this case than I have. Once again, not advocating ... just pointing out. If you want libraries, you want revenues. If you want revenues, you want growth. -- Tony West Guy has provided some thoughtful writing on the 40th Street Hotel plans. Tony, I think the profits / volatility argument is more a consideration for the developers. We neighbors have every right to continue to defend our existing zoning, building codes and height limitations against rapacious developers. If the Hotel fails the neighborhood is stuck with a monolith and 100+ units that can be easily converted to use as a Homeless Shelter, Dormitory or Condo. An 11 story building is a dramatic and permanent anomaly within our Victorian Street Car Suburb. The neighborhood will bear the risks and annoyances of construction and the ultimate use. The precedent could than be used to attempt hi-rise construction on the se corner of 43rd Baltimore, or any other lot, existing or to be razed, in our neighborhood. Liz You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] Campus Inn
Tony, When you miss both my point, and the purpose of Zoning Regulation, by a mile, I read your response as advocating. I will continue to point out that the Zoning Codes, Historic Designation, Building Regulations and Height Restrictions all existed BEFORE the purchase. The Buyer - Owner has the burden of Due Diligence. The codes are designed to protect neighborhoods from 800# gorillas, whether they be Meat Packers, Soap Makers, or Universities. They are designed to protect neighborhoods from the arrogance or abuse that can follow money or overly aggressive ownership. The system is not intended to dictate business plans, but it is designed to prevent bad plans from being imposed upon unwilling neighbors. Neighborhoods CAN dictate what can NOT be done. It seems a shame that SHCA has not had the stones to resist hale-fellows-well-met or to send a strong message in support of existing codes, neighbors and our 'hood. People who make bad decisions lose money. Ask anyone who invested with Bernie Madoff. Skipping Due Diligence or planning to impose institutional will upon human neighbors, despite known restrictions, is a bad plan-decision. Institutions using such a business model deserve the losses they might incur. People, good, long time neighbors, contributors to our Arts Leagues and Children's programs and Gardening initiatives, folks such as the Goldmans and O'Donnells and neighbors on Woodland Terrace deserve to keep, undiminished, the bundle of rights that existed when they purchased their homes. ... just pointing out. I can not fathom SHCA's failure to act more assertively. I don't yet have the words to properly express the depth of my disappointment and sense of betrayal that some SHCA Community Leaders are willing to cede the character of the neighborhood, near the Trolley Portal, while guaranteeing inconvenience and risking catastrophe. I am fairly certain the urgency in this matter is not the possible loss to a huge organization that oft-times appears only nominally nonprofit, but the promised gain for some profiteers and their attendant lackeys. I don't have the head for the economics of greed. I don't want to fight this battle. My instincts are to look away, and pray, as if it is two cars skidding toward each other on ice, but a wreck that might still be avoided. But there is too much at stake. If this precedent succeeds, where will the next multi-story be planted? My guess is the SE corner of 43rd and Baltimore. I am not ready for our park to be in the shadow of rent-seeking development. I believe there are neighbors, still on the fence, who are willing to imagine additional undisclosed or ill considered consequences of inserting a super-sized monolith on a lot with no setbacks. And I hope they will add their voices and insights to the discussion. Sincerely, Liz -- Anthony West anthony_w...@earthlink.net wrote: Liz, If Penn owns and retains the real estate, no matter what is built, then Penn is the developer to some degree. So it's ultimately Penn's call if any particular proposal would work or not. The world can attempt to persuade Penn to favor one business plan over another, but it can't dictate that business plan until it ponies up the monies that will relieve Penn of some of the burden of investing. Neighbors in the immediate environs of this proposal have every right to defend their existing zoning, regardless of whether it helps or hurts Philadelphia as a whole. If they can force Penn to abandon Plan A and move to Plan B, more power to them. When the City is wallowing in new growth and new revenue, it is easy for the City to assign top priority to neighborhood preservation. When decay is outpacing construction and revenue is declining, it is hard for the City to assign top priority to neighborhood preservation, in that rare case where someone actually wants to risk a big new business in any Philadelphia neighborhood. If it were up to me, I'd choose neighborhood preservation because I'm already comfortable here with things much as they are. But I don't cut City checks, and those who do may have a different take on this case than I have. Once again, not advocating ... just pointing out. If you want libraries, you want revenues. If you want revenues, you want growth. -- Tony West Guy has provided some thoughtful writing on the 40th Street Hotel plans. Tony, I think the profits / volatility argument is more a consideration for the developers. We neighbors have every right to continue to defend our existing zoning, building codes and height limitations against rapacious developers. If the Hotel fails the neighborhood is stuck with a monolith and 100+ units that can be easily converted to use as a Homeless Shelter, Dormitory or Condo. An 11 story building is a dramatic and permanent anomaly within our Victorian Street Car Suburb. The neighborhood will bear the risks and annoyances of
Re: [UC] Campus Inn
Tony, You are probably right that this discussion is too extensive for this list-serv especially on Christmas Eve. I'll try to make my response short:? If your concern for the 40th and Pine site is which of the two alternatives (extended stay hotel vs 10,000 sq' commercial development) provides the best alternatives in the event the project fails then I would suggest this analysis--? a 90,000 sq' building on a site with 4 parking spaces, a pool, no side yards or rear yards and built as a 110 room extended stay hotel has little or no viable alternative use (other than as student housing). In the alternative, a 10,000 sq' re-do of the mansion where there is first floor space requiring some reasonable retail rent and the 5,000 sq' upstairs requiring some reasonable office/classroom rent has thousands of alternate uses and users especially with the 25 car parking it would provide.? I am not sure why you don't believe that a small commercial venture is viable on 40th and Pine.? It might be harder to find failed commercial ventures in UC than it is to find successful ones even in this economic market.? In fact, I can give you?a very real example of a failed hotel in the U Penn/ U Penn Hospital area.? The old Hilton across the street from the hospital failed in several incarnations. -Original Message- From: Anthony West anthony_w...@earthlink.net To: UnivCity listserv UnivCity@list.purple.com Sent: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 7:55 pm Subject: Re: [UC] Campus Inn You have many interesting ideas about 40th St. development, Guy, that deserve deeper thought than a snap response on an unmoderated listserve. I'm sure the people in the business are giving it thought, amicably or otherwise.? ? One caution ordinary readers should note is that a long-term business plan based on a high end restaurant is even shakier than a plan based on an extended stay hotel. The Campus Inn concept has been justly criticized for that very weakness: of hiding the longterm risk of downmarket users behind an initial promise of an upmarket user. If Campus Inn goes belly up, foes argue, it could be converted to rooms where students might sleep ... and there goes the neighborhood. We don't want no students sleeping in Spruce Hill, do we now? Ew.? ? The entertainment industry, I must warn readers, is even more volatile than the travel industry. It's great for Penn, and flattering for West Philadelphia, that Distrito is pitching in such monstrous rents for (gasp!) 40th St. nightspot square footage. Maybe a new high-end entertainment district will coalesce around 40th St. someday soon. I'm up for that. But I wouldn't bet the mortgage on it today.? ? Long-range planners for a sustainable 40th Pine property are free to dazzle the public with visions of another Distrito ... but should gladly settle for another FuddRuckers, if that's what washes up on the beach. Still beats a stop go. There will be no intrinsic protection, however, against that site's becoming a stop go in the future.? ? There's nothing wrong with either risk, in my opinion. None of the above worries me. I could live with walking past any of the above outcomes. For me, an upscale restaurant beats a dorm, but an extended-stay hotel beats a stop go. The true challenge for the neighborhood, as it mulls over these options, is to figure out how to honestly compare apples with apples.? ? -- Tony West? ? I dream that the 40th and Pine site is developed by Campus Apartments and Tom Lussenhop as a high end restaurant with 25 car parking and either classroom or community space on the second and third floor. ? Guy? ? ? You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the? list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see? http://www.purple.com/list.html.?
Re: [UC] Campus Inn
In a message dated 12/24/2008 12:36:43 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, campio...@juno.com writes: The current delays are because the Developers wants what they want. Unwillingness to compromise has been the hallmark of every highly contentious issue in this neighborhood for the past decade. Think about: * the Alexander School catchment area * The historic district nomination * The Neighborhood Improvement District * The Campus Inn The people on the various sides shift a bit in the above, for various reasons, but the pattern is the same. Considering those reasons, while I disagreed with the people on the opposite side from me in the first three of the above, I had to admit that their points were well taken and that they probably didn't fully fathom the collateral damage that would be done along with the benefits that would be derived. The Campus Inn is truly different. The project is pure greed on the parts of the developers and their Sputniks, and they realize full well the damage that they will impose on everyone else in their quest for economic rents. Apparently, people like Lussenhop (who is looking to strike it rich with no money down and doesn't mind prostituting himself to do it) haven't learned anything from the attitude of the people who ran Lehman Brothers or the other investment banks. Always at your service ready for a dialog, Al Krigman -- 36-year local resident, beloved housing provider, and recipient of the 2008 Ignatz Nobil prize for ratiocination **One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dpicid=aolcom40vanityncid=emlcntaolcom0025)
RE: [UC] Campus Inn
Liz, you make an excellent point about Penn overpaying for the land. Penn apologist(s) claim that since Penn paid so much for it, they have no other choice but to seek a use that makes economic sense, and Penn alone gets to say what economic sense is. As if someone was holding a gun to their heads and forcing them to pay $1.8 million. And as if they don't operate top flight law and business schools that TEACH students how to do due diligence and market analysis. Give me a bleeping break! Penn can eliminate all competition by paying what seems like ridiculous prices for a property, then claim they have no other choice but to build eleven story buildings to recover the cost. The fact is that Penn is the ultimate deep pocket, which explains why opportunists like the guy who got the 50-condo deal from Penn crawled out of the woodwork to support their project. And Penn has all of the legal and business expertise they will ever need at their fingertips. So if Penn or anyone else tries to equate Penn's position with the limitations faced by a private individual buyer, understand that your intellegence is being insulted. From: campio...@juno.comdate: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 05:34:50 +To: univc...@list.purple.comsubject: Re: [UC] Campus Inn Guy has provided some thoughtful writing on the 40th Street Hotel plans. Tony, I think the profits / volatility argument is more a consideration for the developers. We neighbors have every right to continue to defend our existing zoning, building codes and height limitations against rapacious developers. If the Hotel fails the neighborhood is stuck with a monolith and 100+ units that can be easily converted to use as a Homeless Shelter, Dormitory or Condo. An 11 story building is a dramatic and permanent anomaly within our Victorian Street Car Suburb. The neighborhood will bear the risks and annoyances of construction and the ultimate use. The precedent could than be used to attempt hi-rise construction on the se corner of 43rd Baltimore, or any other lot, existing or to be razed, in our neighborhood. If a Restaurant, within a conforming structure fails, the adaptive uses might be less onerous. Glenn reminds us that Esau Sanchez spoke of plans that were rejected and hopes by Academic departments that were not funded. Like Glenn, I'd like to see the proposals. PENN can eliminate competition, by overpaying. But PENN should not be rewarded for eliminating competition or organic, growth. The Developers seek radical variances to codes which are designed to protect neighbors. Neighbors should not have to subsidize the hardships of poor, institutional choices. If PENN hadn't overpaid, another family, like the O'Donnells of 4100, might have settled in already. The current delays are because the Developers wants what they want. This does not include playing within the codes and regulations that were in place, when they bought. Pretending they were not aware of codes or their obligation of Due Diligence is little more than a flipping of the bird at us neighbors. Resistance is righteous. Encroachment is an unwanted and unwarranted act of aggression. Don't let's confuse who is profit seeking at the expense of whom. Merry Christmas and all the best in 2009 and beyond to all good neighbors! Liz -- Anthony West anthony_w...@earthlink.net wrote:You have many interesting ideas about 40th St. development, Guy, that deserve deeper thought than a snap response on an unmoderated listserve. I'm sure the people in the business are giving it thought, amicably or otherwise.One caution ordinary readers should note is that a long-term business plan based on a high end restaurant is even shakier than a plan based on an extended stay hotel. The Campus Inn concept has been justly criticized for that very weakness: of hiding the longterm risk of downmarket users behind an initial promise of an upmarket user. If Campus Inn goes belly up, foes argue, it could be converted to rooms where students might sleep ... and there goes the neighborhood. We don't want no students sleeping in Spruce Hill, do we now? Ew.The entertainment industry, I must warn readers, is even more volatile than the travel industry. It's great for Penn, and flattering for West Philadelphia, that Distrito is pitching in such monstrous rents for (gasp!) 40th St. nightspot square footage. Maybe a new high-end entertainment district will coalesce around 40th St. someday soon. I'm up for that. But I wouldn't bet the mortgage on it today.Long-range planners for a sustainable 40th Pine property are free to dazzle the public with visions of another Distrito ... but should gladly settle for another FuddRuckers, if that's what washes up on the beach. Still beats a stop go. There will be no intrinsic protection, however, against that site's becoming a stop go in the future.There's nothing wrong with either risk, in my opinion. None of the above worries me. I could live
Re: [UC] Campus Inn
"In fact, I can give youa very real example of a failed hotel in the U Penn/ U Penn Hospital area. The old Hilton across the street from the hospital failed in several incarnations." Guy, thanks for clearing this up. Most people understand thatthe towering beasthas nothing to do with the hospitals.But I wasn't sure what prompted the closure of that hotel. The bridge across 34th St meant that guests could access Chop and Hup without going outside. (Hospital families generally get $99 rooms near the airport.) In addition to the obvious target markets for CI, the apartment dimensions of extended stay hotels (which Lauren mentions) is a big clue to me. Many years, the U. does not have enough on campus housing for incoming students. They end up renting spaces in other places. So it's Penn parents, visiting academicians, and a spillover destination for overbooked years that looks like the target market- Not hospital families "You are probably right that this discussion is too extensive for this list-serv especially on Christmas Eve." Here, I completely disagree. The listserv is one of the few mechanisms for community members to quickly and thoroughly discuss important community crises. Compare our grassroots communication options to the incredible never ending power of the university's spin machine. I see the list as a tremendously important place for us to share reports, ideas, and the truth. Consider the pattern: Like the BID and the Clark Park redesign, both times the U. made a "slam dunk" push for this Campus Inn have been during the holiday season. It seems all potentially unpopular projects from the university are destined to be pushed near to Christmas. (Intersting that the library cuts were also slam dunked during the season) It's a shame that concerned active citizens are always on call when powerful entities do the slam dunk during the holidays. I think of the activism of our neighbors, as one of the more inspiring and satisfying presents of all! Happy holidays, Glenn -Original Message- From: lom...@aol.com Sent: Dec 24, 2008 4:47 AM To: anthony_w...@earthlink.net, UnivCity@list.purple.com Subject: Re: [UC] Campus Inn Tony,You are probably right that this discussion is too extensive for this list-serv especially on Christmas Eve.I'll try to make my response short: If your concern for the 40th and Pine site is which of the two alternatives (extended stay hotel vs 10,000 sq' commercial development) provides the best alternatives in the event the project fails then I would suggest this analysis-- a 90,000 sq' building on a site with 4 parking spaces, a pool, no side yards or rear yards and built as a 110 room extended stay hotel has little or no viable alternative use (other than as student housing).In the alternative, a 10,000 sq' re-do of the mansion where there is first floor space requiring some reasonable retail rent and the 5,000 sq' upstairs requiring some reasonable office/classroom rent has thousands of alternate uses and users especially with the 25 car parking it would provide. I am not sure why you don't believe that a small commercial venture is viable on 40th and Pine. It might be harder to find failed commercial ventures in UC than it is to find successful ones even in this economic market. In fact, I can give youa very real example of a failed hotel in the U Penn/ U Penn Hospital area. The old Hilton across the street from the hospital failed in several incarnations.-Original Message-From: Anthony West anthony_w...@earthlink.netTo: UnivCity listserv UnivCity@list.purple.comSent: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 7:55 pmSubject: Re: [UC] Campus Inn You have many interesting ideas about 40th St. development, Guy, that deserve deeper thought than a snap response on an unmoderated listserve. I'm sure the people in the business are giving it thought, amicably or otherwise.One caution ordinary readers should note is that a long-term business plan based on a "high end restaurant" is even shakier than a plan based on an "extended stay hotel". The Campus Inn concept has been justly criticized for that very weakness: of hiding the longterm risk of downmarket users behind an initial promise of an upmarket user. If Campus Inn goes belly up, foes argue, it could be converted to rooms where students might sleep ... and there goes the neighborhood. We don't want no students sleeping in Spruce Hill, do we now? Ew.The entertainment industry, I must warn readers, is even more volatile than the travel industry. It's great for Penn, and flattering for West Philadelphia, that Distrito is pitching in such monstrous rents for (gasp!) 40th St. nightspot square footage. Maybe a new high-end entertainment district will coalesce around 40th St. someday soon. I'm up for that. But I wouldn't bet the mortgage on it today.Long-range planners for a sustainable 40th Pine property are free to dazzle the public with visions of another Distrito ... but shoul
Re: [UC] Campus Inn
KAREN ALLEN wrote: And if they're going to build a 3 story building in the 3900 block of Spruce, around the corner from 40th and Pine on a VACANT LOT, why can't they build the Campus Inn on the vacant lot and renovate the mansion for the other project??? thank you! I've been wondering the very same thing since hearing the news about the 3-story building (a transplant patient facility) behind allegro's near 40th and spruce. apparently, plans for this 3-story patient facility were in the works as early as, if not earlier than, february 2006, when the lot at 40th and pine was already vacant: http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_Releases/feb06/trnshse.htm and it's been reported that plans for the campus inn at 40th and pine began in spring 07 (after the transplant facility). in any case, it appears that all this vacant real estate at this end of 40th street was going to be developed and funded by penn's hospitals -- not by ucd's 40th street corridor vision, nor with the intervention of penn praxis. [this could explain what had been long noted on this list, how neither ucd nor penn praxis have published anything public about this hotel...] but what's unclear is how penn can justify planning and building these patient care facilities AWAY from all the new patient care facilities that penn was planning and building. for example, the perelman center, a state-of-the-art patient care facility -- connected by a bridge to the penn tower hotel, btw -- opened this fall on the very boulevard where all of penn's hospitals are located: http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/perelman/release-advancing-real-time-medicine.html Designed by Perkins Eastman/Rafael Vinoly Architects, a Joint Venture, the Perelman Center was built to create a comfortable and easy-to-navigate environment for patients and their families. The soaring glass atrium creates a central welcome space adjacent to café and retail space. Exam rooms are a spacious 110 square feet, providing ample room for family members and friends. Special consultation rooms throughout the facility bring doctors, nurses and other medical professionals directly to patients and their families, eliminating the need for visits to different offices around the medical campus. Additional family waiting rooms offer a comfortable retreat for caregivers during appointments, supporting research which found that social interaction helps patients with cancer live longer. Among other comforts are valet parking that puts patients within steps of their clinics, and free wireless internet access throughout the facility. ... The economic impact of the Perelman Center in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania is expected to be $348 million, and $212 million in the City of Philadelphia. When it is fully operational, the building will create more than 400 new jobs within Penn Medicine and support 2,772 jobs directly and indirectly throughout Pennsylvania. - - - - - with all this development of the hosptial complex AT the hospital complex, and all this concern about patients and families being in close proximity to each other and to their doctors, why is a residential area in our neighborhood being asked to be rezoned for hospital uses? what is the logic behind this vision at this end of 40th street? and should we neighbors be appealing to penn-the-hospital rather than penn-the-academy [with its 17-18 rejected proposals for the site]? .. UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
RE: [UC] Campus Inn
It sounds like you're suggesting that Penn would rather risk failure at 40th Street than at 30th Street. To: anthony_w...@earthlink.net; univc...@list.purple.comsubject: Re: [UC] Campus InnDate: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 21:41:28 -0500From: lom...@aol.com RE: It would also be true that a 10,000 sq' development would be substantially less profitable than a 90,000 sq' development if they both succeed. I hope that this simple math is not the reason that the University is not considering locating their extended stay hotel on a more appropriate site
Re: [UC] Campus Inn
Guy has provided some thoughtful writing on the 40th Street Hotel plans. Tony, I think the profits / volatility argument is more a consideration for the developers. We neighbors have every right to continue to defend our existing zoning, building codes and height limitations against rapacious developers. If the Hotel fails the neighborhood is stuck with a monolith and 100+ units that can be easily converted to use as a Homeless Shelter, Dormitory or Condo. An 11 story building is a dramatic and permanent anomaly within our Victorian Street Car Suburb. The neighborhood will bear the risks and annoyances of construction and the ultimate use. The precedent could than be used to attempt hi-rise construction on the se corner of 43rd Baltimore, or any other lot, existing or to be razed, in our neighborhood. If a Restaurant, within a conforming structure fails, the adaptive uses might be less onerous. Glenn reminds us that Esau Sanchez spoke of plans that were rejected and hopes by Academic departments that were not funded. Like Glenn, I'd like to see the proposals. PENN can eliminate competition, by overpaying. But PENN should not be rewarded for eliminating competition or organic, growth. The Developers seek radical variances to codes which are designed to protect neighbors. Neighbors should not have to subsidize the hardships of poor, institutional choices. If PENN hadn't overpaid, another family, like the O'Donnells of 4100, might have settled in already. The current delays are because the Developers wants what they want. This does not include playing within the codes and regulations that were in place, when they bought. Pretending they were not aware of codes or their obligation of Due Diligence is little more than a flipping of the bird at us neighbors. Resistance is righteous. Encroachment is an unwanted and unwarranted act of aggression. Don't let's confuse who is profit seeking at the expense of whom. Merry Christmas and all the best in 2009 and beyond to all good neighbors! Liz -- Anthony West anthony_w...@earthlink.net wrote: You have many interesting ideas about 40th St. development, Guy, that deserve deeper thought than a snap response on an unmoderated listserve. I'm sure the people in the business are giving it thought, amicably or otherwise. One caution ordinary readers should note is that a long-term business plan based on a high end restaurant is even shakier than a plan based on an extended stay hotel. The Campus Inn concept has been justly criticized for that very weakness: of hiding the longterm risk of downmarket users behind an initial promise of an upmarket user. If Campus Inn goes belly up, foes argue, it could be converted to rooms where students might sleep ... and there goes the neighborhood. We don't want no students sleeping in Spruce Hill, do we now? Ew. The entertainment industry, I must warn readers, is even more volatile than the travel industry. It's great for Penn, and flattering for West Philadelphia, that Distrito is pitching in such monstrous rents for (gasp!) 40th St. nightspot square footage. Maybe a new high-end entertainment district will coalesce around 40th St. someday soon. I'm up for that. But I wouldn't bet the mortgage on it today. Long-range planners for a sustainable 40th Pine property are free to dazzle the public with visions of another Distrito ... but should gladly settle for another FuddRuckers, if that's what washes up on the beach. Still beats a stop go. There will be no intrinsic protection, however, against that site's becoming a stop go in the future. There's nothing wrong with either risk, in my opinion. None of the above worries me. I could live with walking past any of the above outcomes. For me, an upscale restaurant beats a dorm, but an extended-stay hotel beats a stop go. The true challenge for the neighborhood, as it mulls over these options, is to figure out how to honestly compare apples with apples. -- Tony West I dream that the 40th and Pine site is developed by Campus Apartments and Tom Lussenhop as a high end restaurant with 25 car parking and either classroom or community space on the second and third floor. Guy Elizabeth Campion PRUDENTIAL, FOX ROACH REALTORS, LLC 210 W. Rittenhouse Square, Suite 406 Phila, PA 19103 215-790-5653 Desk Voicemail 215-880-2930 Cell Emergency 215-546-9781 Shared office Fax campio...@juno,com or home.in.ph...@juno.com for Rental questions Link to Photos of available Listings and public, 'social' photos: www.PicasaWeb.google.com/CampionEF To check out all PFR and Multiple Listed Properties and to review CONSUMER NOTICE, link to www.PruFoxRoach.com Save $15 on Flowers and Gifts from FTD! Shop now at http://offers.juno.com/TGL1141/?u=http://www.ftd.com/17007
Re: [UC] Campus Inn
Tony, Thanks for clearing up some of the confusion around the question posed by SH. I have one question about the facts in your post:? your last paragraph contains the core mis-conception about this Hotel-? that if this project is not built at 40th and Pine that it will never get built.??In addition, the mis-conception is that there will be jobs lost and families will have no where to stay while their loved ones are at extended stays in area hospitals.? (In fact there is a three story, extended stay hotel being built on 39th and Spruce right now!) Tony, there are so many alternative locations for this hotel in our area, that ANY feature of this hotel that you see in the 40th and Pine location is available elsewhere.? For example, are you fascinated by the located near public transportation claim that the 40th and Pine Hotel claims?? There is probably no location in all of UC that is not equally located near public transportation.? How about locating on any of the 30 acres that Penn just bought near 30th St Station? If there is such a market need for the hotel then it can be built virtually anywhere in UC and the market forces for occupancy will be the same. I want to be clear that I am opposed to the location of the hotel at this particular site.? In addition, I am in favor the the erection of an extended stay hotel somewhere more appropriate in UC. I believe that the issues surrounding whether it should be built on this 40th and Pine site seem to me to be:? the opposition does not want the intrusion of a large commercial building into a?residential three story?neighborhood in a case where there are alternatives.? The developers arguments are largely economic ones (need for the hotel rooms, jobs at the hotel, completion of the 40th St commercial corridor). I hear the same economic argument in your post and I wanted to point out that none of the economic problems that you?mention (loss of jobs and lack of hotel rooms) will occur if the hotel is built elsewhere. Guy -Original Message- From: Anthony West anthony_w...@earthlink.net To: UnivCity listserv UnivCity@list.purple.com Sent: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 7:04 pm Subject: Re: [UC] Campus Inn No, it's not going to do that, SH. The development group isn't really a single business of any kind, either public or private, so there is no it to go into bankruptcy.? ? Its partners are the University of Pennsylvania, which is nowhere near bankruptcy, and the Hilton chain (there've been no large-scale collapses in the hospitality industry yet, although these are certainly tough times for restaurants and probably for hotels as well). Perhaps there are other real-estate operators with tiny stakes.? ? Unlikely the Campus Inn matters enough to any of its participants to thrust them into insolvency. Failure of the project might mean a few people who are working on its plans may be cut by their employers or have their careers dampened.? ? Of more importance to the rest of society, it would cause several major business contracts not to be written and hundreds of people not to get new jobs, precisely as we slide into a global recession. These are the kinds of economic issues at stake for policy-makers in this controversy.? ? -- Tony West? ? Hi,? ? Could someone spell this out for me?? ? Does this mean the campus inn development group is going to file for? bankruptcy?? ? - SH? ? ? You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the? list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see? http://www.purple.com/list.html.? ? ? ? ? You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the? list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see? http://www.purple.com/list.html.?
Re: [UC] Campus Inn
"there are so many alternative locations for this hotel in our area, that ANY feature of this hotel that you see in the 40th and Pine location is available elsewhere." Absolutely. And for thosewho believe this is intended for hospital extended stays, they should consider the Penn tower hotel. Penn had a hotel across from Chop and HUP! And directly westfrom the Penn tower hotelis the VA hospital. There simply was no better location for hospital families, but Penn converted it! The altruistic claims, about convenience for hospital families,areobviously false after we remember this Penn tower hotel. Was it lack of hotel guests or just an uncaring profit maximizing decision? Who knows. (Guy, Mr. West's postis a classic appeal to the"shockdoctrine" which has been used so effectively to concentrate powerby frighteningour society. Of course, the job loss scare is complete nonsense, as you correctly point out. Thanks) Real Problem: Building Campus Inn atthe 40th and Pine location, Penn and the developers need to completely destroy the standards of historic preservation and destroy the existing major zoning rules for a residential neighborhood. Since these developers refuse to engage the community honestly, wemust assiduously and sagaciouslyanalyze their motivitations, as so many of our neighbors have done. (Mayor Nutter's vesting of power in an unaccountable PCPC indicates to me that all corporate giants will soon be exused from any and all rules for little businesses. Campus Innseems to bea precedent for smashing rules across West Philly) Reality: The university is "landbanking" the parcel at 40th and Pine so that it owns the lot forever. Using the principal of economic rent seeking, the universitywishes to maximize profit on the parcel without effort for an extended period of time. Because "conflicts of interest"have become the major guiding principal at modern corporate universities, the insiderswish to also maximize the profits of cronies. Tom and Campus apartments are partners with penn real estate on UCD, BID, rule of city gvernment, etc. That is why the "17 or 18 proposals" which went before Esaul Sanchez, (beforedevelopment of the site was known pulicly)never had a chance of turning the parcel into a reasonable development project. (As someone with deep ties to the university when it was a center for research and education; I am offended at the way the power brokers rejected the 17 or 18 proposals to maximize the profits of real estate cronies) Guy, I believe you pointed out in testimonythat while Penn has been unofficially claiming a financial hardshipduring alltheir presentations, they have refused to open the parcel for bids. You are absolutely right to challenge this failure andthe hardshipclaims. Also, they have to date refused to transparently show the "17 or 18 proposals" they received internally, so that we could analyze their claims that nothing else can possibly develop that site within or close to existing rules. Penn could be building an additional hotel on the postal lands, and either a bed and breakfast or academic department couuld be rehabbing 40th and Pine right now!(the two projects employing a larger number of workers). Thanks for shedding light on this latest appeal toeconomic fear using the shock doctrine! Glenn -Original Message- From: lom...@aol.com Sent: Dec 22, 2008 3:47 AM To: anthony_w...@earthlink.net, UnivCity@list.purple.com Subject: Re: [UC] Campus Inn Tony,Thanks for clearing up some of the confusion around the question posed by SH.I have one question about the facts in your post: your last paragraph contains the core mis-conception about this Hotel- that if this project is not built at 40th and Pine that it will never get built.In addition, the mis-conception is that there will be jobs lost and families will have no where to stay while their loved ones are at extended stays in area hospitals. (In fact there is a three story, extended stay hotel being built on 39th and Spruce right now!)Tony, there are so many alternative locations for this hotel in our area, that ANY feature of this hotel that you see in the 40th and Pine location is available elsewhere. For example, are you fascinated by the "located near public transportation" claim that the 40th and Pine Hotel claims? There is probably no location in all of UC that is not equally located near public transportation. How about locating on any of the 30 acres that Penn just bought near 30th St Station?If there is such a market need for the hotel then it can be built virtually anywhere in UC and the market forces for occupancy will be the same.I want to be clear that I am opposed to the location of the hotel at this particular site. In addition, I am in favor the the erection of an extended stay hotel somewhere more appropriate in UC.I believe that the issues surrounding whether it should be built on this 40th and Pine site seem to me t
Re: [UC] Campus Inn
Guy, I don't disagree at all with these points of yours, and I didn't actually contend either of those misconceptions. This is a big city and a big neighborhood, wherein all sorts of development possibilities will arise over time. And any real-estate parcel tends to have multiple possibilities, depending on how you fiddle with it. It is true, nonetheless, that questions of new job and business generation will be the chief *strictly economic* concerns that city planners will weigh when evaluating this or any similar project in our area. Growth control is not, repeat not, a top priority for the City of Philadelphia -- a city that has been losing jobs and residents for 50 years -- as it enters 2009. Just look at the City's budget and do the math yourself. This isn't something I'm advocating, just something I'm noticing. -- Tony West Thanks for clearing up some of the confusion around the question posed by SH. I have one question about the facts in your post: your last paragraph contains the core mis-conception about this Hotel- that if this project is not built at 40th and Pine that it will never get built. In addition, the mis-conception is that there will be jobs lost and families will have no where to stay while their loved ones are at extended stays in area hospitals. (In fact there is a three story, extended stay hotel being built on 39th and Spruce right now!) I hear the same economic argument in your post and I wanted to point out that none of the economic problems that you mention (loss of jobs and lack of hotel rooms) will occur if the hotel is built elsewhere. Guy You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] Campus Inn
I appreciate your position and I hope I'm not beating a dead horse, but my personal dream is that there is an 11 story extended stay hotel built within UC, but not at 40th and Pine.? In addition, I dream that the 40th and Pine site is developed by Campus Apartments and Tom Lussenhop as a high end restaurant with 25 car parking and either classroom or community space on the second and third floor.? That way the City gets lots of construction and service jobs along with the multitude of fees that come along with development.? The community is enriched by the development and the 40th and Pine/Woodland Terrace neighborhood is preserved and enhanced. You and I?might be saying the same thing. Guy -Original Message- From: Anthony West anthony_w...@earthlink.net To: UnivCity listserv UnivCity@list.purple.com Sent: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 9:28 am Subject: Re: [UC] Campus Inn Guy,? ? I don't disagree at all with these points of yours, and I didn't actually contend either of those misconceptions. This is a big city and a big neighborhood, wherein all sorts of development possibilities will arise over time. And any real-estate parcel tends to have multiple possibilities, depending on how you fiddle with it.? ? It is true, nonetheless, that questions of new job and business generation will be the chief *strictly economic* concerns that city planners will weigh when evaluating this or any similar project in our area. Growth control is not, repeat not, a top priority for the City of Philadelphia -- a city that has been losing jobs and residents for 50 years -- as it enters 2009. Just look at the City's budget and do the math yourself. This isn't something I'm advocating, just something I'm noticing.? ? -- Tony West? ? Thanks for clearing up some of the confusion around the question posed by SH.? ? I have one question about the facts in your post: your last paragraph contains the core mis-conception about this Hotel- that if this project is not built at 40th and Pine that it will never get built. In addition, the mis-conception is that there will be jobs lost and families will have no where to stay while their loved ones are at extended stays in area hospitals. (In fact there is a three story, extended stay hotel being built on 39th and Spruce right now!)? ? ? I hear the same economic argument in your post and I wanted to point out that none of the economic problems that you mention (loss of jobs and lack of hotel rooms) will occur if the hotel is built elsewhere.? ? Guy? ? ? You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the? list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see? http://www.purple.com/list.html.?
RE: [UC] Campus Inn
RE: Penn could be building an additional hotel on the postal lands, and either a bed and breakfast or academic department couuld be rehabbing 40th and Pine right now! (the two projects employing a larger number of workers). Right, Glenn. Penn and its water carriers want everyone to believe that there is nothing else possible that they can do with the building that makes economic sense. Contrary to comparisons made at the last few HC hearings, Penn is not a private individual with limited finances, and the assertion is totally off base. Penn can cede the land to any number of academic departments and ask its deep pool of donors to pony up the money. AS HAS BEEN DONE: When Wharton wanted to expand to the site of the old Penn bookstore at 38th and Walnut, did not an individual named Jon Huntsman make such a large donation that the building is named for him??? The thing to understand is that ridiculous claims such as that are made, not because they're true, but because they give the decisionmakers an excuse to justify rubberstamping the proposal. Then the claims are latched upon and repeated as true and anything that exposes the fallicy of the claims are ignored. And if they're going to build a 3 story building in the 3900 block of Spruce, around the corner from 40th and Pine on a VACANT LOT, why can't they build the Campus Inn on the vacant lot and renovate the mansion for the other project??? Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 08:38:14 -0500From: glen...@earthlink.netto: lom...@aol.com; anthony_w...@earthlink.net; univc...@list.purple.comsubject: Re: [UC] Campus Inn there are so many alternative locations for this hotel in our area, that ANY feature of this hotel that you see in the 40th and Pine location is available elsewhere. Real Problem: Building Campus Inn at the 40th and Pine location, Penn and the developers need to completely destroy the standards of historic preservation and destroy the existing major zoning rules for a residential neighborhood. Since these developers refuse to engage the community honestly, we must assiduously and sagaciously analyze their motivitations, as so many of our neighbors have done. (Mayor Nutter's vesting of power in an unaccountable PCPC indicates to me that all corporate giants will soon be exused from any and all rules for little businesses. Campus Inn seems to be a precedent for smashing rules across West Philly) Reality: The university is landbanking the parcel at 40th and Pine so that it owns the lot forever. Using the principal of economic rent seeking, the university wishes to maximize profit on the parcel without effort for an extended period of time. Because conflicts of interest have become the major guiding principal at modern corporate universities, the insiders wish to also maximize the profits of cronies. Tom and Campus apartments are partners with penn real estate on UCD, BID, rule of city gvernment, etc. That is why the 17 or 18 proposals which went before Esaul Sanchez, (before development of the site was known pulicly) never had a chance of turning the parcel into a reasonable development project. (As someone with deep ties to the university when it was a center for research and education; I am offended at the way the power brokers rejected the 17 or 18 proposals to maximize the profits of real estate cronies) Guy, I believe you pointed out in testimony that while Penn has been unofficially claiming a financial hardship during all their presentations, they have refused to open the parcel for bids. You are absolutely right to challenge this failure and the hardship claims. Also, they have to date refused to transparently show the 17 or 18 proposals they received internally, so that we could analyze their claims that nothing else can possibly develop that site within or close to existing rules. Penn could be building an additional hotel on the postal lands, and either a bed and breakfast or academic department couuld be rehabbing 40th and Pine right now! (the two projects employing a larger number of workers). Thanks for shedding light on this latest appeal to economic fear using the shock doctrine! Glenn -Original Message- From: lom...@aol.com Sent: Dec 22, 2008 3:47 AM To: anthony_w...@earthlink.net, UnivCity@list.purple.com Subject: Re: [UC] Campus Inn Tony,Thanks for clearing up some of the confusion around the question posed by SH.I have one question about the facts in your post: your last paragraph contains the core mis-conception about this Hotel- that if this project is not built at 40th and Pine that it will never get built. In addition, the mis-conception is that there will be jobs lost and families will have no where to stay while their loved ones are at extended stays in area hospitals. (In fact there is a three story, extended stay hotel being built on 39th and Spruce right now!)Tony, there are so many alternative locations for this hotel in our
Re: [UC] Campus Inn
An interesting idea. It ought to be possible to cook up ballpark numbers on such a project just by pacing it off and running conventional restaurant-industry projections on it. How much would it cost to rip all that crud off the existing mansion and rehab it to Historic-Designation standards? How many high-end seatings an evening could you fit into that historic 1st floor? Could the income from such a venture pay for the rehabbing, plus maintenance of the 2nd and 3rd-floor space, plus keep the restaurateur alive? I'm all for it if it's possible. But I greatly fear the reason the mansion was expanded horizontally into a nursing home 30-odd years ago, was because there was no commercial way to make a building of that age and size pay for its own upkeep even then. Has anything changed since to make it practical today? If anybody can come up with some estimates, it'd be fascinating to read them. -- Tony West I appreciate your position and I hope I'm not beating a dead horse, but my personal dream is that there is an 11 story extended stay hotel built within UC, but not at 40th and Pine. In addition, I dream that the 40th and Pine site is developed by Campus Apartments and Tom Lussenhop as a high end restaurant with 25 car parking and either classroom or community space on the second and third floor. That way the City gets lots of construction and service jobs along with the multitude of fees that come along with development. The community is enriched by the development and the 40th and Pine/Woodland Terrace neighborhood is preserved and enhanced. You and I might be saying the same thing. Guy You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] Campus Inn
I don't want to bore the UC list with price/sq' numbers and rent/sq' numbers, but suffice it to say that the rents that the University has asked for and received by their retail tenants in 1) the HUB? 2) the Domus project and 3) the Radian are close to and exceeding those received in some of the better sections of the City.? These impressive rents and the success of such restaurateurs such as Steven Starr (with Pod, one of his most successful Philly spots) and Jose Garces (at the HUB) have inspired several of the other hot Philly restaurateurs to be chasing locations in UC/West Philly. There's no written guarantee, of course, and these difficult economic times might challenge any of the numbers that I am quoting you, but a 4,000 - 6,000 sq' first floor restaurant with 25 car parking should be able to generate enough rental income to pay the debt-service on the rehab of the entire 10,000 sq' mansion at 40th and Pine.? If you throw in Historic Tax benefits and possible State subsidies and other benefits to the site then it becomes a viable development opportunity.? The rental income from any use of the upstairs 5,000 sq' (whether office rental or auxiliary classroom) would further enhance the economic viability of the site. It would also be true that a 10,000 sq' development would be substantially less profitable than a 90,000 sq' development? if they both succeed.? I hope that this simple math is not the reason that the University is not considering locating their extended stay hotel on a more appropriate site -Original Message- From: Anthony West anthony_w...@earthlink.net To: UnivCity listserv UnivCity@list.purple.com Sent: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 2:42 pm Subject: Re: [UC] Campus Inn An interesting idea. It ought to be possible to cook up ballpark numbers on such a project just by pacing it off and running conventional restaurant-industry projections on it. How much would it cost to rip all that crud off the existing mansion and rehab it to Historic-Designation standards? How many high-end seatings an evening could you fit into that historic 1st floor? Could the income from such a venture pay for the rehabbing, plus maintenance of the 2nd and 3rd-floor space, plus keep the restaurateur alive?? ? I'm all for it if it's possible. But I greatly fear the reason the mansion was expanded horizontally into a nursing home 30-odd years ago, was because there was no commercial way to make a building of that age and size pay for its own upkeep even then. Has anything changed since to make it practical today?? ? If anybody can come up with some estimates, it'd be fascinating to read them.? ? -- Tony West? ? I appreciate your position and I hope I'm not beating a dead horse, but my personal dream is that there is an 11 story extended stay hotel built within UC, but not at 40th and Pine. In addition, I dream that the 40th and Pine site is developed by Campus Apartments and Tom Lussenhop as a high end restaurant with 25 car parking and either classroom or community space on the second and third floor. That way the City gets lots of construction and service jobs along with the multitude of fees that come along with development. ? The community is enriched by the development and the 40th and Pine/Woodland Terrace neighborhood is preserved and enhanced.? ? You and I might be saying the same thing.? ? Guy? ? ? You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the? list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see? http://www.purple.com/list.html.?
[UC] Campus Inn
Hi, Could someone spell this out for me? Does this mean the campus inn development group is going to file for bankruptcy? - SH You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] Campus Inn
No, it's not going to do that, SH. The development group isn't really a single business of any kind, either public or private, so there is no it to go into bankruptcy. Its partners are the University of Pennsylvania, which is nowhere near bankruptcy, and the Hilton chain (there've been no large-scale collapses in the hospitality industry yet, although these are certainly tough times for restaurants and probably for hotels as well). Perhaps there are other real-estate operators with tiny stakes. Unlikely the Campus Inn matters enough to any of its participants to thrust them into insolvency. Failure of the project might mean a few people who are working on its plans may be cut by their employers or have their careers dampened. Of more importance to the rest of society, it would cause several major business contracts not to be written and hundreds of people not to get new jobs, precisely as we slide into a global recession. These are the kinds of economic issues at stake for policy-makers in this controversy. -- Tony West Hi, Could someone spell this out for me? Does this mean the campus inn development group is going to file for bankruptcy? - SH You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
[UC] Campus Inn -- after PCPC, what next?
There's a useful summary of the consequences of PCPC approval of the Campus Inn project in today's Daily Pennsylvanian: http://media.www.dailypennsylvanian.com/media/storage/paper882/news/2008/09/19/News/News-Analysis.Zoning.Approval.Likely.After.Recommendation-3440684.shtml -- Tony West You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] Campus Inn -- after PCPC, what next?
There's a useful summary of the consequences of PCPC approval of the Campus Inn project in today's Daily Pennsylvanian: No! This is a continuation of the press release started Wed. This writer has maintained a close association with the development team. She continues to make no effort to investigate the portrayal of community opposition as anything that a reader would interpret other than the reactions of NIMBYs. This is propaganda for uninformed University readers! Note the change from the previous lie about a gaurantee (extended-stay only) from Primavera. (Primavera's ridiculous comparison to a take out order placed at Le Bec Fin) I blasted the original lie to the two senior editors who printed the retraction of the reporter's outrageous false reporting of my testimony. (Compare the NIMBY character, Glenn Moyer, to the video. Please note the video is an hour long. My testimony is approximately 28 minutes. This example of false reporting makes the propagandistic intent obvious.) All of the promises from Penn and cronies about parking spaces, trash collection, extended-stay use only, etc. are nothing but a smokescreen. None of these promises would ever be enforceable by members of the community. Did the DP cover the previous May 20 hearing? The development team obviously brought her and prepared her because we all knew that the PCPC was going to recommend the project the day before the Trustees meeting. The DP and this reporter have twice been used to put out these dishonest press releases which look like journalism. I posted a comment on the on-line edition of the DP. It may not yet be available. Glenn PS: The reporter may be seeking a job at the Public Record. -Original Message- From: Anthony West [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sep 19, 2008 12:02 PM To: UnivCity listserv UnivCity@list.purple.com Subject: [UC] Campus Inn -- after PCPC, what next? There's a useful summary of the consequences of PCPC approval of the Campus Inn project in today's Daily Pennsylvanian: http://media.www.dailypennsylvanian.com/media/storage/paper882/news/2008/09/19/News/News-Analysis.Zoning.Approval.Likely.After.Recommendation-3440684.shtml -- Tony West You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
[UC] Campus inn is on PCPC agenda for Tuesday, 9/16
Campus inn is on the tentative Philadelphia City Planning Commission (PCPC) agenda for Tuesday, 9/16. The meeting starts at 1:00 pm and this is currently being listed as the last item on the list. Martin Gregorski is indicated as the responsible staff member. Al Krigman reminding you that you read it first, here, on the popu-list **Pt...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty000514)
Re: [UC] Campus Inn questionnaire (not poll) results
In a message dated 2/19/2008 4:02:46 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This 2:9 ratio yields a multiplier of 4.5. So if a survey of a proposed business project yields 12 positive and 50 negative unsolicited responses from end-users, the weighted responses are 54 positives and 50 negatives. In other words, actual public opinion looks more like a tossup so far. I would not assume most neighbors of the hotel project clearly express a choice for or against, based on this tool alone. I don't think I could have been more clear, to anyone who paid attention, about the fact that the absolute numbers answering one way or another were neither the intent of the questionnaires nor to be interpreted as reflective of anything. And I stated this in the context of criticizing the DP poll. The subject of the email posting to this list was Campus Inn questionnaire (not poll) results. And the web page containing the links stated Informal community questionnaires to ascertain reasons why neighbors are opposed to, in support of, or undecided about the project. The key, as I thought was evident, was to consider each questionnaire in and of itself, to see why those opposed were opposed, why those in favor were in favor, and why those undecided were undecided. So, what's the point of all the huffety puffety in your post? Sorry, but I deeply resent being deliberately misinterpreted. And I post this to the list rather than send it to you privately (as would normally be my inclination) in case your comments get anybody thinking I'm using data in an attempt to deceive rather than present food for thought. Al Krigman **Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp0030002598)
[UC] Campus Inn questionnaire (not poll) results
No time like the present (especially because I figured out how to share the results without giving away the names or email addresses of the participants). Go to _www.icodat.com/c-i.htm_ (http://www.icodat.com/c-i.htm) . Then click on each of the links to get the tabulations. Al Krigman **Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp0030002598)
Re: [UC] Campus Inn Zoning Meeting: Help Spread the Word
KAREN ALLEN wrote: Neighbors are circulating fliers door-to-door and displaying posters in public venues to get the word out about the Campus Inn/SCHA Zoning Committee meeting slated for next Wednesday, February 13, 7 PM at the Spruce Hill Christian School, 42nd and Baltimore to discuss the Campus Inn proposal. If you can help with this effort, please contact me offlist and I will e-mail you jpg versions of the flier and poster. Please feel free to forward this message. Thanks. I've been spotting fliers all around: http://tinyurl.com/35d8c2 http://tinyurl.com/369e83 (note to lauren leatherbarrow: yes, it's about the community.) .. UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
[UC] Campus Inn Zoning Meeting: Help Spread the Word
Neighbors are circulating fliers door-to-door and displaying posters in public venues to get the word out about the Campus Inn/SCHA Zoning Committee meeting slated for next Wednesday, February 13, 7 PM at the Spruce Hill Christian School, 42nd and Baltimore to discuss the Campus Inn proposal. If you can help with this effort, please contact me offlist and I will e-mail you jpg versions of the flier and poster. Please feel free to forward this message. Thanks. Karen Allen
[UC] Campus Inn Opening Door to High-Rises in UC
My editorial letter appeared in today's UC Review. To The Editor: Campus Inn Opening the Door to High-Rises in UC Used to be, when a house on the block went up for sale, UC neighbors had to worry about whether a group home or a half way house would end up in the property. Not any more: now we have to worry about whether an irresponsible developer is going to buy it for some astronomical price and build an eleven story building in the side yard. That’s what the neighbors around 40th and Pine are going through as Penn and a private developer attempt to advance their plan to build “Campus Inn”, an 11 story hotel in the side yard of a building in a lovely residential area of historic three and four story homes and apartment buildings. If they succeed, this plan would set a dangerous precedent which would be felt throughout University City. Developers are buying land at inflated prices, and in order to make a profit, they would try to cram as much onto the land as they thought they could get away with. Rest assured that if it’s built, Campus Inn will then be used as a precedent to defend building high rises at 48th and Cedar, or 46th and Chester, or 36th and Baring, or wherever the next “For Sale” sign may go up. Spruce Hill Civic Association’s Zoning Committee will hold a public meeting on Wednesday, February 13 at 7pm at SCHA offices at 257 S. 45th Street to discuss the Campus Inn project. Although the project’s impact would be most directly felt by those who live closest to it, everyone’s quality of life would be negatively affected if this is allowed to be built. This meeting could decide the fate of the entire neighborhood. Please try to attend. http://tinyurl.com/ytlh6f
Re: [UC] Campus Inn proposal to be presented to the Friends of 40th St on Friday, 1/25
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Friday, January 25 Oshiver Community Room, 3901 Market Street 8:00am - 9:30am This month, Tom Lussenhop will be presenting his proposed hotel development for 40th and Pine Streets, and Captain Joe Fischer of Penn Police will be discussing several of UPPD's new initiatives. Hope to see everyone there! Best, Andrew Goodman Friends of 40th Street This is an opportunity for all concerned solid citizens who don't have to go to work on Friday mornings to get the latest news about the Campus Inn project from the horse's mouth (so to speak). It will be especially interesting because the Development team has heard a great deal of constructive criticism -- at venues such as the November SHCA meeting, and also in private coffee sessions with individuals -- and we'll be able to see how community inputs have helped shape the plan. It will also be an opportunity to ascertain: * how far along they are in the process of applying for a zoning variance; * whether the report in the DP was correct in stating that the whole project must be presented to the Penn Board of Trustees for approval before the property can be leased in the necessary manner; * how the developers explain the rather striking difference between the rendering of the hotel prepared by its architect and that prepared by the acclaimed local architect, Marianna Thomas -- who happens to have an office (the only commercial occupancy) in the 3900 block of Baltimore Avenue. The Oshiver Room is at the east end of the 3901 Market apartment building, street level -- you should be able to enter from Market Street. thanks for the announcement, al. not sure what you mean by 'how community inputs have helped shape the plan.' I could find nothing on the friends of 40th street website about the proposed hotel (nothing in their meeting minutes). lussenhop had already presented the hotel proposal (using his architect's renderings) to the philadelphia historic commission on 9 november. and he got their approval -- before the november SHCA meeting on 13 november. .. UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN [aka laserbeam®] [aka ray] SERIAL LIAR. CALL FOR RATES. It is very clear on this listserve who these people are. Ray has admitted being connected to this forger. -- Tony West Ray's falsehoods are more sophisticated, more believable -- Tony West You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
[UC] Campus Inn proposal to be presented to the Friends of 40th St on Friday, 1/25
Friday, January 25 Oshiver Community Room, 3901 Market Street 8:00am - 9:30am This month, Tom Lussenhop will be presenting his proposed hotel development for 40th and Pine Streets, and Captain Joe Fischer of Penn Police will be discussing several of UPPD's new initiatives. Hope to see everyone there! Best, Andrew Goodman Friends of 40th Street This is an opportunity for all concerned solid citizens who don't have to go to work on Friday mornings to get the latest news about the Campus Inn project from the horse's mouth (so to speak). It will be especially interesting because the Development team has heard a great deal of constructive criticism -- at venues such as the November SHCA meeting, and also in private coffee sessions with individuals -- and we'll be able to see how community inputs have helped shape the plan. It will also be an opportunity to ascertain: * how far along they are in the process of applying for a zoning variance; * whether the report in the DP was correct in stating that the whole project must be presented to the Penn Board of Trustees for approval before the property can be leased in the necessary manner; * how the developers explain the rather striking difference between the rendering of the hotel prepared by its architect and that prepared by the acclaimed local architect, Marianna Thomas -- who happens to have an office (the only commercial occupancy) in the 3900 block of Baltimore Avenue. The Oshiver Room is at the east end of the 3901 Market apartment building, street level -- you should be able to enter from Market Street. Always at your service and ready for a diatribe -- er, dialog. Al Krigman **Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489
[UC] Campus Inn questionnaires for those on all sides of the issue
I previously posted a questionnaire (see below -- not a poll or survey) about reasons why opponents of the proposed Campus Inn were opposed to the project. A number of people, rightfully, jumped all over me for doing something for opponents and not giving supporters of the project an opportunity to indicate why they liked it, or undecided neighbors an way to note the questions they think should be answered before they can make up their minds. Admittedly, I'm not happy with the project as it's been presented to date. However, in the interest of balance, I've prepared two additional questionnaires to accommodate folks in the above two groups. To register your sentiments, go to _www.campus-inn.blogspot.com_ (http://www.campus-inn.blogspot.com) . You can access any of the questionnaires with a click from there. If you're not sure which questionnaire to fill out, click on one or the other and look at the items; if you exit without hitting the submit button, no trace of your visit will be retained. Always at your service Al Krigman Note: The purpose of these questionnaires is to get an idea -- qualitatively -- of what people like, don't like, or don't think they know enough to decide about the project. It is not meant as a gauge of community sentiment and will not be represented as such. Results will be made available through this listserv (and they won't be copyrighted so someone can copy them to ucneighbors and/or pfsni as well, sent to the University City Review for (possible) publication, and provided to the developers in connection with public meetings that will presumably be held as they attempt to move forward with their plans. **Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301)
