[UC] why community activists avoid this list (Was: Re: FOCP response)
Mary, I have been on this list since ~2001. I can name about about two dozen different community groups in the University City area, and I suspect I'm missing a few. Surely, during this time, a few of their leaders have lurked on UC-list. But I don't recall seeing any group that utilizes UC-list as a posting mechanism. Therefore, it is not really a source of much local information. Most activists I've talked to regard it more as a source of local misinformation. UC-list has become a talking shop dominated by people who know little and do nothing, but criticize big. Most activists say it's a waste of their unpaid volunteer time to read this list. I was an outlier. During my presidency of Friends of Clark Park (2003-05), I found great value in Purple and I militantly pushed my organization to use Purple as an outreach medium. As everybody knows, I'm a dedicated Purple loyalist. But I found no imitators and, in fact, wound up wading through all sorts of muck as a result of standing by Purple. My effort was a waste of time, I say now in sorrow. The core problem is that UC-list is unmoderated. As a result, in practice, it's a poor source of information -- an unsafe place in which to exchange information. It's a newspaper without an editor, a street without a cop. Now there's a better product to serve the neighborhood. So that's where the better traffic is shifting. And that leaves even less to learn from UC-list. FYI: Mr. Chance does not head a civic association but a park support group. FoCP's mission is to communicate with park users. If you are curious about anything he does, and you authentically care about the park ... shouldn't you show up at his next public meeting? FoCP has a listserve of its own, which represents this community quite well in its own way. It's not his job to come to your list, if you want to learn something from him. Community is a two-way street. -- Tony West Does anyone know why Mr. Chance does not subscribe to this listserve? I would expect the leader of a local civic association to be connected to as many sources of local information and activities as possible. What about our other civic leaders (e.g. at the Spruce Hill Community Association, the UC Historical Society and Cedar Park Neighbors) and our local politicians (Mrs. Blackwell, for instance and ward leaders and committee members)? Mary
Re: [UC] why community activists avoid this list (Was: Re: FOCP response)
I found this an insulting and crazy making post Sent via BlackBerry by ATT -Original Message- From: Anthony West anthony_w...@earthlink.net Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 18:11:04 To: UnivCity@list.purple.com UnivCity listservunivcity@list.purple.com Subject: [UC] why community activists avoid this list (Was: Re: FOCP response) Mary, I have been on this list since ~2001. I can name about about two dozen different community groups in the University City area, and I suspect I'm missing a few. Surely, during this time, a few of their leaders have lurked on UC-list. But I don't recall seeing any group that utilizes UC-list as a posting mechanism. Therefore, it is not really a source of much local information. Most activists I've talked to regard it more as a source of local misinformation. UC-list has become a talking shop dominated by people who know little and do nothing, but criticize big. Most activists say it's a waste of their unpaid volunteer time to read this list. I was an outlier. During my presidency of Friends of Clark Park (2003-05), I found great value in Purple and I militantly pushed my organization to use Purple as an outreach medium. As everybody knows, I'm a dedicated Purple loyalist. But I found no imitators and, in fact, wound up wading through all sorts of muck as a result of standing by Purple. My effort was a waste of time, I say now in sorrow. The core problem is that UC-list is unmoderated. As a result, in practice, it's a poor source of information -- an unsafe place in which to exchange information. It's a newspaper without an editor, a street without a cop. Now there's a better product to serve the neighborhood. So that's where the better traffic is shifting. And that leaves even less to learn from UC-list. FYI: Mr. Chance does not head a civic association but a park support group. FoCP's mission is to communicate with park users. If you are curious about anything he does, and you authentically care about the park ... shouldn't you show up at his next public meeting? FoCP has a listserve of its own, which represents this community quite well in its own way. It's not his job to come to your list, if you want to learn something from him. Community is a two-way street. -- Tony West Does anyone know why Mr. Chance does not subscribe to this listserve? I would expect the leader of a local civic association to be connected to as many sources of local information and activities as possible. What about our other civic leaders (e.g. at the Spruce Hill Community Association, the UC Historical Society and Cedar Park Neighbors) and our local politicians (Mrs. Blackwell, for instance and ward leaders and committee members)? Mary
Re: [UC] why community activists avoid this list (Was: Re: FOCP response)
Well, Tony, Since the listserv began in 1996 and the Internet not so long before, University City was one of the first changing neighborhoods in the City of Philadelphia to even HAVE so many on the Internet that we could even form a listserv. A prodigious achievement in this city that may now be taken for granted in the era of the iPad. Even though I predate you on the UC listserv, I recall being one of the youngsters who were plugged in during the early 90¹s and knew about how to use the Web. I also recall the impetus of the Penn Mortgage Program in 1995 and no longer having to show houses on Community Group Organized UC Saturday¹s. THAT¹S when everything changed and could be discussed on the Web. Beforehand, the same divergent points of view about community development were done solely through 501-C3 associations, and were not accessible to the entire community. The UC Listserv has the distinction of being one of the first in this city to make this happen, much to the chagrin of some. -Wilma On 4/12/10 6:11 PM, Anthony West anthony_w...@earthlink.net wrote: Mary, I have been on this list since ~2001. I can name about about two dozen different community groups in the University City area, and I suspect I'm missing a few. Surely, during this time, a few of their leaders have lurked on UC-list. But I don't recall seeing any group that utilizes UC-list as a posting mechanism. Therefore, it is not really a source of much local information. Most activists I've talked to regard it more as a source of local misinformation. UC-list has become a talking shop dominated by people who know little and do nothing, but criticize big. Most activists say it's a waste of their unpaid volunteer time to read this list. I was an outlier. During my presidency of Friends of Clark Park (2003-05), I found great value in Purple and I militantly pushed my organization to use Purple as an outreach medium. As everybody knows, I'm a dedicated Purple loyalist. But I found no imitators and, in fact, wound up wading through all sorts of muck as a result of standing by Purple. My effort was a waste of time, I say now in sorrow. The core problem is that UC-list is unmoderated. As a result, in practice, it's a poor source of information -- an unsafe place in which to exchange information. It's a newspaper without an editor, a street without a cop. Now there's a better product to serve the neighborhood. So that's where the better traffic is shifting. And that leaves even less to learn from UC-list. FYI: Mr. Chance does not head a civic association but a park support group. FoCP's mission is to communicate with park users. If you are curious about anything he does, and you authentically care about the park ... shouldn't you show up at his next public meeting? FoCP has a listserve of its own, which represents this community quite well in its own way. It's not his job to come to your list, if you want to learn something from him. Community is a two-way street. -- Tony West Does anyone know why Mr. Chance does not subscribe to this listserve? I would expect the leader of a local civic association to be connected to as many sources of local information and activities as possible. What about our other civic leaders (e.g. at the Spruce Hill Community Association, the UC Historical Society and Cedar Park Neighbors) and our local politicians (Mrs. Blackwell, for instance and ward leaders and committee members)? Mary
Re: [UC] why community activists avoid this list (Was: Re: FOCP response)
On Apr 12, 2010, at 06:11 PM, Anthony West wrote: Most activists say it's a waste of their unpaid volunteer time to read this list. informative, observant and factual? Did someone do a survey or is this just your factual opinion? Frank You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
[UC] why community activists avoid this list (Was: Re: FOCP response)
I don't think the Councilwoman reads UC-list posts personally. She's not a big internet fan (and who can blame her?). Of course, someone on her paid staff always monitors UC-list. Other politicians, with budgets to hire employees, can direct their employees to read UC-list, along with the other neighborhood lists. But none of them use it as an interactive communications medium. That's a fact. Volunteer neighborhood activists have even less incentive to spend their free time dialoguing with cranks on UC-list. It doesn't pay. It's not that every UC-list subscriber is a crank. It's that the cranks increasingly drown out the discussion, so that normal neighbors have a hard time discussing normal neighborhood issues on this listserve in a normal manner. That's why people keep asking for advice on how to leave it. We don't see this phenomenon on UCNeighbors -- people begging for advice on how to unsubscribe. People who have a reason to reach out to the most University City residents possible, should begin with the most-popular listerve, which is UCNeighbors. After that comes UC-list, then PFSNI. -- Tony West On 4/12/2010 6:56 PM, Alex de Soto wrote: Trust me, Jannie Blackwell, Jim Roebuck, Committee and Ward Leaders are on this list and have been for a long time.
Re: [UC] why community activists avoid this list (Was: Re: FOCP response)
Hi Frank. Always glad to talk with a fellow UC-list supporter. This is my opinion. I earn a humble living by determining which, among a welter of reports, are informative, observant and factual; so please excuse me if I extend my work habits to this listserve. Since it's an unmoderated listserve, I can't deny that deceptive, ignorant, shameless and false statements have equal right to be published on UC-list. That's what UC-list is best known for, among neighborhood movers and shakers who read the internet. It's the listserve where nobody who actually does anything around here, writes anything. Do you disagree with me? -- Tony West informative, observant and factual? Did someone do a survey or is this just your factual opinion? Frank You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] why community activists avoid this list (Was: Re: FOCP response)
On the other hand, a moderated list runs the risk of reflecting only the views of the moderator. In this case I can't say that this hasn't happened. Frank On Apr 12, 2010, at 07:41 PM, Anthony West wrote: Hi Frank. Always glad to talk with a fellow UC-list supporter. This is my opinion. I earn a humble living by determining which, among a welter of reports, are informative, observant and factual; so please excuse me if I extend my work habits to this listserve. Since it's an unmoderated listserve, I can't deny that deceptive, ignorant, shameless and false statements have equal right to be published on UC-list. That's what UC-list is best known for, among neighborhood movers and shakers who read the internet. It's the listserve where nobody who actually does anything around here, writes anything. Do you disagree with me? -- Tony West informative, observant and factual? Did someone do a survey or is this just your factual opinion? Frank You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
