Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] Can PCP/LMS Do This?

[Roland0]

Hammerhead wrote: 
> I read here that I could theoretically I could use a Zero mounted on a
> Pi3 via the GPIO header. Not sure how I'd pull it off or what software
> would be involved, though. 
> 
This won't work. Apart from the hardware limitations (Pi0 has only one
USB port), the USB OTG mode won't support this scenario either (see
'here' (https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/usb/mass-storage.txt)
and 'here' (http://www.linux-usb.org/gadget/file_storage.html) for
details)

Realistically, the following methods are feasible:
- use mp3fs on the server on which your library is located (or on
another computer which mounts the library over the network), and
synchronize the mp3s to a USB storage device (e.g. using rsync or
similar)
- use some script to archive the conversion and  synchronization. I've
written a 'script'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?108762-Export-playlist-of-music-files-to-USB-pen-drive&p=907869&viewfull=1#post907869)
for a somewhat similar scenario, which I'm currently rewriting to
include conversion (e.g. flac->mp3) and volume normalization. While the
original purpose was to copy files based on playlists (since I only want
parts of my library on my phone / in my car), it could be easily
extended to copy all files from a directory instead.



SW: 'Web UI for LMS'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?98186-Announce-Alternative-Web-Interface-(beta))
| 'Playlist Editor / Generator'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?108199-Announce-LMS-Playlist-Editor)
| 'Music Classification'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?108278-Announce-Essentia-Integration-music-classification-(moods-genres-))
| 'Similar Music'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?108495-Announce-LMSmusly-play-similar-music)
| 'LMSlib2go' (https://www.nexus0.net/pub/sw/lmslib2go/)
HowTos: 'build a self-contained LMS'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?99648-Howto-build-a-self-contained-LMS)
| 'Ogg Opus'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?107011-Howto-play-Ogg-Opus-files)
| 'Bluetooth/ALSA'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?107230-Howto-Bluetooth-streaming-to-from-LMS-(ALSA-only-no-PulseAudio))

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Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] Can PCP/LMS Do This?

[epoch1970]

Hammerhead wrote: 
> I read here that I could theoretically I could use a Zero mounted on a
> Pi3 via the GPIO header. 
Anything is possible, I guess.
But the fact it’s never been done before doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a
good idea...



3 SB 3 • Libratone Loop, Zipp Mini • iPeng (iPhone + iPad) • LMS 7.9
(linux) with plugins: CD Player, WaveInput, Triode's BBC iPlayer by bpa
• IRBlaster by Gwendesign (Felix) • Server Power Control by Gordon
Harris • Smart Mix, Music Walk With Me, What Was That Tune? by Michael
Herger • PowerSave by Jason Holtzapple • Song Info, Song Lyrics by
Erland Isaksson • AirPlay Bridge by philippe_44 • WeatherTime by Martin
Rehfeld • Auto Dim Display, SaverSwitcher, ContextMenu by Peter Watkins.

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Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] Can PCP/LMS Do This?

[Hammerhead]

epoch1970 wrote: 
> In a way, yes...
> Your audio system expects a mass-storage device, the Pi does too. This
> means they both act as USB hosts, and you can't connect 2 hosts
> together.
> You'd want the Pi to present itself as a mass-storage -device-, while
> playing its mp3fs trick over FLAC files that are in reality stored on
> the SD card. The only Pi product that will perhaps do that is Pi0 (and
> 0w?) which are AFAIK the only Pis that support USB OTG (Linux calls that
> "usb gadget mode").
> 
> I'm clearly not the specialist but I think you need to be a hero to try
> doing something like that. Plus large µSD cards are expensive.
> 
> EDIT: '0w supports gadget mode'
> (https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=190721#p1197886)I read 
> here that I could theoretically I could use a Zero mounted on a
Pi3 via the GPIO header. Not sure how I'd pull it off or what software
would be involved, though. 

https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=190721#p1197886
You assume wrong. All B-series models of Pis have a USB hub. Pi0, Pi0W,
all A-series and all CM-series Pis do not. On the Pi3B and Pi0W (and the
Pi3A whenever it gets launched) the WiFi and BT are *not* on the USB
bus.

Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk





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Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] Can PCP/LMS Do This?

[epoch1970]

Hammerhead wrote: 
> So, if we could get the Pi to make the file system available to the
> car's USB port and appear as though it was just mass storage, then this
> would do the trick.
In a way, yes...
Your audio system expects a mass-storage device, the Pi does too. This
means they both act as USB hosts, and you can't connect 2 hosts
together.
You'd want the Pi to present itself as a mass-storage device, while
playing its mp3fs trick over FLAC files that are in reality stored on
the SD card. The only Pi device that will perhaps do that is Pi0 (and
0w?) which are AFAIK the only Pis that support USB OTG (Linux calls that
"usb gadget mode").

I'm clearly not the specialist but I think you need to be a hero to try
doing something like that. Plus large µSD cards are expensive.



3 SB 3 • Libratone Loop, Zipp Mini • iPeng (iPhone + iPad) • LMS 7.9
(linux) with plugins: CD Player, WaveInput, Triode's BBC iPlayer by bpa
• IRBlaster by Gwendesign (Felix) • Server Power Control by Gordon
Harris • Smart Mix, Music Walk With Me, What Was That Tune? by Michael
Herger • PowerSave by Jason Holtzapple • Song Info, Song Lyrics by
Erland Isaksson • AirPlay Bridge by philippe_44 • WeatherTime by Martin
Rehfeld • Auto Dim Display, SaverSwitcher, ContextMenu by Peter Watkins.

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Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] Can PCP/LMS Do This?

[Hammerhead]

Roland0 wrote: 
> If you settle for mp3, you may be able to use 'mp3fs'
> (https://khenriks.github.io/mp3fs/) to avoid this (depending on the
> platform your library is hosted on).
> Sound quality: AAC > MP3 > Bluetooth
> I don't see any reason to use a Pi in this setup (unless you use
> Bluetooth - and even in this scenario, a cheap android phone with a sd
> card will be a much simpler option), the files will be on a USB storage.

That's pretty cool!  I'm at the point where I'm giving up any hope of
getting the car to see FLAC files.

So, if we could get the Pi to make the file system available to the
car's USB port and appear as though it was just mass storage, then this
would do the trick.  Theoretically I could simply synchronize all my
FLAC files to the Pi over my network, and as the car looks for them,
mp2fs "shows" the car what it expects to see, album art and all, yes?

So, I'm down to what software and possibly adapters to get from here to
there.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] Can PCP/LMS Do This?

[Roland0]

Hammerhead wrote: 
> 
> Yes, I was trying to avoid two separate libraries.  
> 
If you settle for mp3, you may be able to use 'mp3fs'
(https://khenriks.github.io/mp3fs/) to avoid this (depending on the
platform your library is hosted on).

> 
> I was also hoping to benefit from the lossless format.  However, it
> seems that the only way to use the onboard system is to have either a BT
> or USB connection which appears as a file system.  So I guess the
> question at this point is which will give the better results - FLAC
> transcoded and sent via USB, or .MP3 on a USB stick if we can somehow
> get the Pi to be seen by the car as a file system?
Sound quality: AAC > MP3 > Bluetooth
I don't see any reason to use a Pi in this setup (unless you use
Bluetooth - and even in this scenario, a cheap android phone with a sd
card will be a much simpler option), the files will be on a USB storage.



SW: 'Web UI for LMS'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?98186-Announce-Alternative-Web-Interface-(beta))
| 'Playlist Editor / Generator'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?108199-Announce-LMS-Playlist-Editor)
| 'Music Classification'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?108278-Announce-Essentia-Integration-music-classification-(moods-genres-))
| 'Similar Music'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?108495-Announce-LMSmusly-play-similar-music)
| 'LMSlib2go' (https://www.nexus0.net/pub/sw/lmslib2go/)
HowTos: 'build a self-contained LMS'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?99648-Howto-build-a-self-contained-LMS)
| 'Ogg Opus'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?107011-Howto-play-Ogg-Opus-files)
| 'Bluetooth/ALSA'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?107230-Howto-Bluetooth-streaming-to-from-LMS-(ALSA-only-no-PulseAudio))

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Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] Can PCP/LMS Do This?

[atrocity]

d6jg wrote: 
> For this reason the best option remains USB thumb drive with 320kbps
> MP3. I have a 32Gb drive which holds more than suffiicient music for
> even the longest journey.

The biggest problem for me is that I'm not aware of any car-based MP3
player (disc or USB) that's fully gapless.

I finally wrote a little Linux script to concatenate album tracks into a
single big file, then convert it to MP3. It requires Sox, FLAC and LAME.
Here it is in case someone else finds any value in it. Note that there
are three different options for the encoding, I leave two commented out
and uncomment whichever one I want to use at the time. Even with the
medium quality -V4 setting in LAME I find it good enough for a noisy car
environment.

Just execute this in the same directory as the album you want to convert
to a single MP3. Change the parameters at the top to insert the correct
metadata.


Code:


  #!/bin/bash
  
  FileType='flac'
  
  artist='Pink Floyd'
  album='Zabriskie Point'
  year=1970
  outfile='/mnt/WD8TBNAS03/TempAudio/Workspace/Convert/Pink Floyd 
MP3/Temp/15-Zabriskie Point.mp3'
  artwork='Folder.jpg'
  
  FileList=$(find *.$FileType -printf "\"%p\" " | sort)
  printf "$FileList\n"
  
  # Concatenate all album tracks to stdout and pass to lame for encoding to a 
single large MP3
  
  # 320 CBR
  #eval "sox --no-clobber $FileList -t wav - | lame -q0 -b320 -mj 
--noreplaygain --scale 1 --verbose --ta \"$artist\" --tl \"$album\" -ti 
\"$artwork\" --tt \"$album\" --ty $year - \"$outfile\""
  
  # VBR -V0 = highest quality, -V9 = lowest quality
  eval "sox --no-clobber $FileList -t wav - | lame -V4 -mj --noreplaygain 
--scale 1 --verbose --ta \"$artist\" --tl \"$album\" --tt \"$album\" --ti 
\"$artwork\" --ty $year - \"$outfile\""
  
  # VBR ***MONO*** -V0 = highest quality, -V9 = lowest quality
  #eval "sox --no-clobber $FileList -t wav - | lame -V4 -ml --noreplaygain 
--scale 1 --verbose --ta \"$artist\" --tl \"$album\" -ti \"$artwork\" --tt 
\"$album\" --ty $year - \"$outfile\""
  
  # -q0 = highest quality
  # -b320 = 320kbps
  # --scale 1 = do not alter volume
  # -mj = joint stereo
  




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Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] Can PCP/LMS Do This?

[garym]

d6jg wrote: 
> Slightly off topic. Why don't you use VB's auto mp3 mirror Gary? I don't
> either but what is your reason ?

no particular major reason. But I have more options I can set with
dbpoweramp conversion (automatically redoing ReplayGain tags, adding
itunes SOUNDCHECK values, taking "cover.jpg" art in folder and embedding
in the mp3 files but also reducing the size from 1000x1000 to 300x300),
etc.  Basically just more control over process.   

p.s. I don't use the Vortexbox autoripping for CDs either.  It is fine,
but doesn't have the ability to match a rip to ACCURATERIP database for
better confirmation of perfect rip.



*Home:* VortexBox 4TB (2.4) > LMS 7.9.1 > Transporter, Touch, Boom,
Radio (all ethernet)
*Cottage:* VBA 3TB (2.4) > LMS 7.9.1 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Office:* Win8(64) > LMS 7.9.1 > Squeezelite
*Spares:* Transporter, Touch(3), Radio(3), Boom, SB3, CONTROLLER
*Controllers:* iPhone6 & iPadAir2 (iPeng & Squeezepad), CONTROLLER, or
SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win10(64) laptop
*Files:* ripping: dbpoweramp > FLAC; post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes;
Streaming: Spotify

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Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] Can PCP/LMS Do This?

[d6jg]

garym wrote: 
> Or 192kbps for that matter except with particularly troublesome samples
> that produce artifacts (these are rare, and would be even more rare to
> hear in an automobile setting).   In my own case, I keep a mirror image
> of my FLAC library as mp3s for use in my ipods, iphones, ipads (LAME
> -V2, which are ~192kbps; and this is overkill, in the noisy car,
> airplane, or gym environments these would be fine at 128 or 160 kbps). 
> 
> 
> I know the OP didn't want to deal with a separate library. In my own
> case, I have about 100,000 tracks. I was able to create the mp3 mirror
> with an automated batch process that kept my subfolder organization,
> tags, file names, artwork, etc. And I can point and click to update the
> mp3 mirror library with newly added FLAC files (that is, I don't have to
> remember what I've already convertedthe program remembers and knows
> to only convert the FLAC files that do not already exist as mp3).   I
> use dbpoweramp, but there are lots of options for this task.

Slightly off topic. Why don't you use VB's auto mp3 mirror Gary? I don't
either but what is your reason ?



VB2.4 STORAGE QNAP TS419P (NFS)
*Living Room* - Joggler & SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 -> Celestion F20s
*Office* - Pi3+Sreen -> Sony TAFE320 -> Celestion F10s / Pi2+DAC & SB3
-> Onkyo CRN755 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
*Dining Room* -> SB Boom 
*Kitchen* -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio)
*Bedroom (Bedside)* - Pi2+DAC ->ToppingTP21 ->AKG Headphones
*Bedroom (TV)* - SB Touch ->Sherwood AVR ->Mordaunt Short M10s
Everything controlled by iPeng

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Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] Can PCP/LMS Do This?

[garym]

d6jg wrote: 
> In truth there is very little point having FLACs in car as opposed to
> 320kbps MP3. You won't hear any difference even with top end Bose kit or
> similar due to road and wind noise etc.

Or 192kbps for that matter except with particularly troublesome samples
that produce artifacts (these are rare, and would be even more rare to
hear in an automobile setting).   In my own case, I keep a mirror image
of my FLAC library as mp3s for use in my ipods, iphones, ipads (LAME
-V2, which are ~192kbps; and this is overkill, in the noisy car,
airplane, or gym environments these would be fine at 128 or 160 kbps).  

I know the OP didn't want to deal with a separate library. In my own
case, I have about 100,000 tracks. I was able to create the mp3 mirror
with an automated batch process that kept my subfolder organization,
tags, file names, artwork, etc. And I can point and click to update the
mp3 mirror library with newly added FLAC files (that is, I don't have to
remember what I've already convertedthe program remembers and knows
to only convert the FLAC files that do not already exist as mp3).   I
use dbpoweramp, but there are lots of options for this task.



*Home:* VortexBox 4TB (2.4) > LMS 7.9.1 > Transporter, Touch, Boom,
Radio (all ethernet)
*Cottage:* VBA 3TB (2.4) > LMS 7.9.1 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Office:* Win8(64) > LMS 7.9.1 > Squeezelite
*Spares:* Transporter, Touch(3), Radio(3), Boom, SB3, CONTROLLER
*Controllers:* iPhone6 & iPadAir2 (iPeng & Squeezepad), CONTROLLER, or
SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win10(64) laptop
*Files:* ripping: dbpoweramp > FLAC; post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes;
Streaming: Spotify

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Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] Can PCP/LMS Do This?

[d6jg]

In truth there is very little point having FLACs in car as opposed to
320kbps MP3. You won't hear any difference even with top end Bose kit or
similar due to road and wind noise etc.

Its an interesting project but you will never get the infotainment
system to read the contents of a Pi no matter what you use. As others
have said a phone can connect to the infotainment system in a number of
ways but total control is not always available via the car.

I have an iPhone with FLAC Player installed (its an app with a clunky
mechanism for loading FLACs) but if I ask the car to play Bluetooth from
said phone it will try to play what is in the native iTunes thingy
(which is empty). If however I start play in the FLAC Player app on the
phone then I can control volume, play and pause and next etc but I can't
choose a different playlist or album via the car.

For this reason the best option remains USB thumb drive with 320kbps
MP3. I have a 32Gb drive which holds more than suffiicient music for
even the longest journey.



PI3 PCP/LMS STORAGE QNAP TS419P (NFS)
*Living Room* - Joggler & SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 -> Celestion F20s
*Office* - Pi3+Sreen -> Sony TAFE320 -> Celestion F10s / Pi2+DAC & SB3
-> Onkyo CRN755 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
*Dining Room* -> SB Boom 
*Kitchen* -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio)
*Bedroom (Bedside)* - Pi2+DAC ->ToppingTP21 ->AKG Headphones
*Bedroom (TV)* - SB Touch ->Sherwood AVR ->Mordaunt Short M10s
Everything controlled by iPeng

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Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] Can PCP/LMS Do This?

[usc95]

One other app to try if you have an iPhone is iPeng.  While it is
primarily a remote for your squeezebox it also can turn your iPhone into
a squeezebox player that can connect to your LMS server over cellular. I
believe that Pippin has a tutorial on how to do this on his website for
iPeng.

I really think an app on a phone or tablet is the simplest way to get
FLAC playback in your car.  Some ANDROID devices accept micro sd cards
that you can load up with up to 256 gbs of music if you didn’t want to
stream your music.  Finally you could buy a purpose built music player
like this one and see if it can work with your car’s controls
https://www.razordogaudio.com/products/sony-nw-wm1a-signature-series-walkman-digital-music-player-with-hi-res-audio-1?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=googlepla&variant=53086338948&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIirnPldqN2gIVk2B-Ch3TDAxTEAQYASABEgKQPvD_BwE



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Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] Can PCP/LMS Do This?

[usc95]

Hammerhead wrote: 
> Are not flac and wav the same quality, the only difference being the
> former is compressed?  In any case, I'm pretty sure that .wav would be
> better than .mp3 on any day.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I have full meta data - including album art  - in the car dash,
> from both bluetooth and USB port.  The car also supports Spotify via
> Bluetooth but I think that's only if an Android or iPhone is in use. 
> The problem with a phone is storage capacity.  Right now, my FLAC
> collection is 170GB and growing.
> 
> The other issue is that I don't know if I use BT for the Pi will disable
> the hands-free calling in the car since I think only one phone can be
> paired at a time.  Also, it's been suggested that Bluetooth is not great
> for audio, unless it supports a certain protocol which I don't know if I
> have, so there's some question about whether there are really any gains
> to be had this way.  One solution might be to buy a USB WiFi dongle and
> add it to the Pi, disable the onboard WiFi in favor of Bluetooth, and
> see if that will work.  Let me RTFM for the car again and see what I can
> figure out.

If you use Google Music you will upload your music to Googles servers
(up to 50k tracks I believe) and they will stream it back to you in mp3
format. No need to take up space on your device.  If you want to use
FLAC instead and you have an iPhone there is an app and service called
VOX that gives you unlimited storage for $5 a month for your music.  I
think they can even handle hi-res if you are into that https://vox.rocks



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Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] Can PCP/LMS Do This?

[epoch1970]

Modern car infotainment systems are part of automotive (linux)
platforms, the whole thing look like 'that'
(https://wiki.automotivelinux.org/_detail/distro/agl_subsystems.png?id=agl-distro).
That's a lot of boxes, and the projected interactions and usage
scenarios are (normally) strictly defined...



3 SB 3 • Libratone Loop, Zipp Mini • iPeng (iPhone + iPad) • LMS 7.9
(linux) with plugins: CD Player, WaveInput, Triode's BBC iPlayer by bpa
• IRBlaster by Gwendesign (Felix) • Server Power Control by Gordon
Harris • Smart Mix, Music Walk With Me, What Was That Tune? by Michael
Herger • PowerSave by Jason Holtzapple • Song Info, Song Lyrics by
Erland Isaksson • AirPlay Bridge by philippe_44 • WeatherTime by Martin
Rehfeld • Auto Dim Display, SaverSwitcher, ContextMenu by Peter Watkins.

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Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] Can PCP/LMS Do This?

[bakker_be]

It could also help to know which car this is, as not all car USB's + ICE
systems are the same. E.g. my 2016 VW Golf quite happily accepts FLAC on
it's factory SatNav radio, but it doesn't read the tags, instead just
displaying the filename and playing the music.
As it's a company car the optional Android Auto (in Belgium this costs
around 250€) support hasn't been activated, or I would be able to use
e.g. Mediamonkey for Android straight from the car's interface to play
FLAC with full info straight from my phone without involving bluetooth.



Main System: Touch; Marantz SR-5004 + TMA Premium 905 + TMA Premium 901
+ Teufel Ultima 20 Mk 2 + BK Monolith+ FF + Lenovo T460 + Kodi + Pioneer
PDP-LX5090H
Workshop: iPad 32GB Wifi + Squeezepad (local playback activated)
Wherever needed: Acer Iconia Tab A700 + Squeezeplayer
Kitchen: iPhone 5s + iPeng (local playback activated) + NAD 312 + Teufel
Ultima 20 Mk 2
Headphone (cozy corner): Lenovo T550 + Squeezelite-X + Cyrus Soundkey +
Topping A30 + Focal Elear
Car: TBC ...

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Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] Can PCP/LMS Do This?

[d6jg]

Having read through all this I really think you have a number of
problems that you haven't yet hit.

The best option that will work with the car is a portable USB drive and
mp3's but even this is limited by the flash memory in the car
infotainment system. It is unlikely to be able to properly index 170GBs
of files (even as MP3). The library size limit is determined by the
capacity of the flash memory. 

Some people have built Pi based LMS servers that reside in the car,
tweaked to provide WLAN access point and then use an old iPhone (and
iPeng) as a player / controller via bluetooth. Unfortunately this may
not be fully controllable via the car infotainment system. Try your
phone via bluetooth and see what the control is like.



PI3 PCP/LMS STORAGE QNAP TS419P (NFS)
*Living Room* - Joggler & SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 -> Celestion F20s
*Office* - Pi3+Sreen -> Sony TAFE320 -> Celestion F10s / Pi2+DAC & SB3
-> Onkyo CRN755 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
*Dining Room* -> SB Boom 
*Kitchen* -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio)
*Bedroom (Bedside)* - Pi2+DAC ->ToppingTP21 ->AKG Headphones
*Bedroom (TV)* - SB Touch ->Sherwood AVR ->Mordaunt Short M10s
Everything controlled by iPeng

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Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] Can PCP/LMS Do This?

[d6jg]

Hammerhead wrote: 
> Thanks for the feedback, fellas.
> 
> Just to be clear, I absolutely can hear a difference.  I've got a fairly
> nice system in the car (It's by Bang & Olufsen), my home system is
> modestly high-end (Krell preamp, Bryston 4B-ST amp, Martin Logan
> reQuests) and I have pretty good ears, so there most definitely is a
> difference in the translation.  While I don't expect the staging and
> dynamic range that I'd get at home, there's a 'puffiness' to the tracks
> that's annoying in .MP3 that aren't present in FLAC.
> 
> That said, I was hoping for something like this:
> 
> PCP
> - Mount USB media
> - Set up a Samba file share
> - Synch files to drive every night at 3AM
> - Configure Pi for HDMI output (it is bidirectional, after all...)
> - Connect HDMI to car's USB media port via an adapter cable
> - *Might 'USB OTG' be any help here?
> 
> LMS
> - Set folder to rescan at 4AM
> - Use 'C3PO' to transcode on-the-fly from MP3 to FLAC
> - Car 'sees' file system, displays albums on the nav screen
> - LMS 'sees' request, ques album/track/artist... whatever... and as it
> streams back to the car, converts .FLAC to... DSD, is it?
> 
> Anyway, your insight here would be greatly appreciated.  I can't believe
> I'm the only one with such a use case, and if I can get this to work,
> it'd be a huge help to me and others who have 'legacy' audio equipment
> in the car that, for whatever reason, just doesn't work with FLAC.
> 
> Thanks!

Leaving aside the mechanics of how this might work have you considered
how you are going to power the Pi in car at 3:00 am ? You really don't
want it always on unless you wish to drain the car battery.



PI3 PCP/LMS STORAGE QNAP TS419P (NFS)
*Living Room* - Joggler & SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 -> Celestion F20s
*Office* - Pi3+Sreen -> Sony TAFE320 -> Celestion F10s / Pi2+DAC & SB3
-> Onkyo CRN755 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
*Dining Room* -> SB Boom 
*Kitchen* -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio)
*Bedroom (Bedside)* - Pi2+DAC ->ToppingTP21 ->AKG Headphones
*Bedroom (TV)* - SB Touch ->Sherwood AVR ->Mordaunt Short M10s
Everything controlled by iPeng

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Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] Can PCP/LMS Do This?

[garym]

Hammerhead wrote: 
> Are not flac and wav the same quality, the only difference being the
> former is compressed?  In any case, I'm pretty sure that .wav would be
> better than .mp3 on any day.
> 

correct. WAV and FLAC are both LOSSLESS.



*Home:* VortexBox 4TB (2.4) > LMS 7.9.1 > Transporter, Touch, Boom,
Radio (all ethernet)
*Cottage:* VBA 3TB (2.4) > LMS 7.9.1 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Office:* Win8(64) > LMS 7.9.1 > Squeezelite
*Spares:* Transporter, Touch(3), Radio(3), Boom, SB3, CONTROLLER
*Controllers:* iPhone6 & iPadAir2 (iPeng & Squeezepad), CONTROLLER, or
SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win10(64) laptop
*Files:* ripping: dbpoweramp > FLAC; post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes;
Streaming: Spotify

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Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] Can PCP/LMS Do This?

[Hammerhead]

majones wrote: 
> Best ask in the piCorePlayer thread for the relevant transcoder. ralphy
> fixed me up with .WMA to .FLAC, and it works flawlessly. But they may
> think you're odd going from .FLAC to something inferior. I found myself
> having to do this to stream to my Alexa speakers, but thankfully I
> didn't have to shame myself by asking here - mymediaalexa.com do it with
> their server.
Are not flac and wav the same quality, the only difference being the
former is compressed?  In any case, I'm pretty sure that .wav would be
better than .mp3 on any day.


usc95 wrote: 
> Will your car support the media controls within certain apps?  For
> example, she can start a Spotify playlist on her phone and then be able
> to skip tracks and even view album art on the vehicle center display
> from her steering wheel controls.
Yes, I have full meta data - including album art  - in the car dash,
from both bluetooth and USB port.  The car also supports Spotify via
Bluetooth but I think that's only if an Android or iPhone is in use. 
The problem with a phone is storage capacity.  Right now, my FLAC
collection is 170GB and growing.

The other issue is that I don't know if I use BT for the Pi will disable
the hands-free calling in the car since I think only one phone can be
paired at a time.  Also, it's been suggested that Bluetooth is not great
for audio, unless it supports a certain protocol which I don't know if I
have, so there's some question about whether there are really any gains
to be had this way.  One solution might be to buy a USB WiFi dongle and
add it to the Pi, disable the onboard WiFi in favor of Bluetooth, and
see if that will work.  Let me RTFM for the car again and see what I can
figure out.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] Can PCP/LMS Do This?

[usc95]

Will your car support the media controls within certain apps?  My wife's
2015 Honda Pilot will work with all manner of apps on her phone and
provide basic control from the steering wheel controls such as play,
skip etc.  For example, she can start a Spotify playlist on her phone
and then be able to skip tracks and even view album art on the vehicle
center display from her steering wheel controls.  I believe but am not
certain that it will do this via bluetooth connection in addition to the
Iphone plugged in via lightning cable to the USB port.  We have not
tried an Android phone.  My car, 2008 Infiniti G35S, will provide basic
controls and some metadata (no artwork) as well when plugged in to the
"Ipod" control.  You may be able to load your FLAC music on your phone
and utilize a third party app in the case of an Iphone to playback the
music with full steering wheel controls.  Many vehicles were programmed
with basic music control of IPODS as they were the dominant music
players and many of them can still control Iphones if you happen to use
one of those.

With my Iphone I have access to all of my FLAC music through Google
Music.  I believe Google Music stores my uploaded tracks as 320 kbps MP3
(which I know is not what you asked for but I personally cannot hear the
difference between FLAC and 320 MP3 in a car driving down the road). 
With my vehicle controls and my phone hooked up to the IPOD input I have
some control from the steering wheel.  The google music application on
my music computer watches my music folder and uploads any new additions
automatically keeping my FLAC collection and MP3s in the cloud
completely in sync.  This is what I listen to whenever I want something
that is not on Spotify.  My biggest concern with Google Music is that
gapless playback does not work well.  You may be able to find a
different app that you can use on your phone that will interface with
your FLAC collection at home.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] Can PCP/LMS Do This?

[majones]

Hammerhead wrote: 
>  .. LMS 'sees' request, ques album/track/artist... whatever... and as it
> streams back to the car, converts .FLAC to... DSD, is it? 
Best ask in the piCorePlayer thread for the relevant transcoder. ralphy
fixed me up with .WMA to .FLAC, and it works flawlessly. But they may
think you're odd going from .FLAC to something inferior. I found myself
having to do this to stream to my Alexa speakers, but thankfully I
didn't have to shame myself by asking here - mymediaalexa.com do it with
their server.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] Can PCP/LMS Do This?

[Roland0]

Hammerhead wrote: 
> 
> - Configure Pi for HDMI output (it is bidirectional, after all...)
> - Connect HDMI to car's USB media port via an adapter cable
> 
The car's USB media port will only accept USB mass storage devices. This
means a file system only, no streaming.
This also means that there isn't  (and can't be) a HDMI to USB adapter
cable capable of doing what you want (HDMI to USB adapter are video
capture devices, not mass storage devices).

> 
> - *Might 'USB OTG' be any help here?
> 
No, since it will only allow a device (e.g. RPi Zero) to appear as a USB
mass storage device.



SW: 'Web UI for LMS'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?98186-Announce-Alternative-Web-Interface-(beta))
| 'Playlist Editor / Generator'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?108199-Announce-LMS-Playlist-Editor)
| 'Music Classification'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?108278-Announce-Essentia-Integration-music-classification-(moods-genres-))
| 'Similar Music'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?108495-Announce-LMSmusly-play-similar-music)
| 'LMSlib2go' (https://www.nexus0.net/pub/sw/lmslib2go/)
HowTos: 'build a self-contained LMS'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?99648-Howto-build-a-self-contained-LMS)
| 'Ogg Opus'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?107011-Howto-play-Ogg-Opus-files)
| 'Bluetooth/ALSA'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?107230-Howto-Bluetooth-streaming-to-from-LMS-(ALSA-only-no-PulseAudio))

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Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] Can PCP/LMS Do This?

[Hammerhead]

Thanks for the feedback, fellas.

Just to be clear, I absolutely can hear a difference.  I've got a fairly
nice system in the car (It's by Bang & Olufsen), my home system is
modestly high-end (Krell preamp, Bryston 4B-ST amp, Martin Logan
reQuests) and I have pretty good ears, so there most definitely is a
difference in the translation.  While I don't expect the staging and
dynamic range that I'd get at home, there's a 'puffiness' to the tracks
that's annoying in .MP3 that aren't present in FLAC.

That said, I was hoping for something like this:

PCP
- Mount USB media
- Set up a Samba file share
- Synch files to drive every night at 3AM
- Configure Pi for HDMI output
- Connect HDMI to car's USB media port via an adapter cable
- *Might 'USB OTG' be any help here?

LMS
- Set folder to rescan at 4AM
- Use 'C3PO' to transcode on-the-fly from MP3 to FLAC
- Car 'sees' file system, displays albums on the nav screen
- LMS 'sees' request, ques album/track/artist... whatever... and as it
streams back to the car, converts .FLAC to... DSD, is it?

Anyway, your insight here would be greatly appreciated.  I can't believe
I'm the only one with such a use case, and if I can get this to work,
it'd be a huge help to me and others who have 'legacy' audio equipment
in the car that, for whatever reason, just doesn't work with FLAC.

Thanks!



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Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] Can PCP/LMS Do This?

[Paul Webster]

Running a Pi with Bluetooth could be the way to do this, especially as
pCP 3.50 now includes Bluetooth support ... but you would still need a
way to navigate to choose the music to play.
Presumably you want to use the built-in screen in the car and the
dash/steering wheel controls.

A really nasty hack that might work ... 

Get a Raspberry Pi Zero W.
Use the Wifi part to access your network when at home ... and the Zero W
can have its single USB port switched to Gadget Mode and then emulate a
mass storage device (USB disk).
Problem with this is that there is only one port available and if you
use it like this then you will not be able to plug in a USB disk to hold
your music.
So - the rest of the SD card could be used to store music.
You could run a script on the RPi Zero when you get home that fetches
music from your home network and then convert it to MP3 as you store it
to the SD card.

Easier would be to get a USB disk and carry it between car and home ...
and then plug it in at home when you have new music to move over and do
the translation to MP3 on the PC which would be faster than the RPi0



Paul Webster
http://dabdig.blogspot.com
Author Radio France (FIP etc) plugin

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Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] Can PCP/LMS Do This?

[epoch1970]

LMS manages and controls squeezebox devices, you want your car system to
control audio instead.
I don't think you have any use for LMS.

As Roland0 said, BT isn't so great so the simplest solution is to
convert your flac files to mp3 automatically. Which will require
disconnecting the storage media from you car stereo (and connect it to
the NAS.)

(It might be possible to have a Pi in the car, have it connect via wifi
to the home network when the car is in the driveway, update/convert
files overnight, configure its BT interface to be seen as some audio
source by the car audio system. I fear setting up something like that
would be quite fiddly.)



3 SB 3 • Libratone Loop, Zipp Mini • iPeng (iPhone + iPad) • LMS 7.9
(linux) with plugins: CD Player, WaveInput, Triode's BBC iPlayer by bpa
• IRBlaster by Gwendesign (Felix) • Server Power Control by Gordon
Harris • Smart Mix, Music Walk With Me, What Was That Tune? by Michael
Herger • PowerSave by Jason Holtzapple • Song Info, Song Lyrics by
Erland Isaksson • AirPlay Bridge by philippe_44 • WeatherTime by Martin
Rehfeld • Auto Dim Display, SaverSwitcher, ContextMenu by Peter Watkins.

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Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] Can PCP/LMS Do This?

[kidstypike]

Hammerhead wrote: 
>  So far I have installed PCP, used the 'beta' settings to mount a 128GB
> USB flash drive, and installed Samba, but for some reason the Pi is not
> visible on my home network.  So from my Windows machine, I'm not able to
> use any utilities yet to transfer .flac files to the Pi.

What happens if you right click the Windows logo bottom left of your
PC's screen > click "Run" > type in \\192.168.1.11 (change to your pi's
IP address) and click "OK"?



*Study/Server - LMS 7.9.1 -* Pi3/Pi screen/HiFiBerry DAC+/piCorePlayer
3.5.0/jivelite, 25K library on WDMyCloud, cache and playlists on a USB
stick (formatted ntfs).
*Lounge* - Pi 2/Max2Play > HiFiBerry DIGI+ > AudioEngine DAC1 > AVI DM5
*Dining Room* - Pi3 > HiFiBerry AMP+/retro radio
*Garage* - Pi3/Pi screen/HiFiBerry DAC+/piCorePlayer 3.5.0 > Edifier
R980T
*In car* - LMS 7.9.1 > RPi3/Max2Play > HiFiBerry DAC+ > car's hifi
(files on a 2TB portable USB drive)
*Spares* - 1xTouch, 1xSB3, 1xRadio, 1xBoom

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Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] Can PCP/LMS Do This?

[Roland0]

Hammerhead wrote: 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, all my audio files are .flac, which is not supported by
> the system.  I have no desire to manage two sets of file extensions on
> my NAS (.flac for home and .mp3 for the car) and obviously want to
> maximize the sound quality, which pretty much rules .mp3 out.
> 
> I'm looking for some advice on how to implement a Pi in such a way that
> I can accomplish two things.
> 
> 1) Turn the Pi into a transcoding file server (to convert .flac to .wav)
> and connect it via Bluetooth or the car's USB media port.  I don't know
> if I can use the HDMI port (along with an HDMI to USB adapter) on the Pi
> to do this, or what configuration might be necessary.
> 2) Synchronize the Pi to my NAS nightly via WiFi so that as I continue
> to rip my collection to my NAS, the files are synchronized to the car.
> 

If you think that mp3 sound quality isn't good enough, bluetooth won't
be an option either (see 'here'
(https://www.soundguys.com/understanding-bluetooth-codecs-15352/)). The
car system / Pi will use SBC (or AAC if you are lucky), which are worse
than high quality mp3.
You cannot stream to USB storage, so audio files will have to be
converted before being copied to the storage device. In this scenario,
there's no  transcoding.



SW: 'Web UI for LMS'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?98186-Announce-Alternative-Web-Interface-(beta))
| 'Playlist Editor / Generator'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?108199-Announce-LMS-Playlist-Editor)
| 'Music Classification'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?108278-Announce-Essentia-Integration-music-classification-(moods-genres-))
| 'Similar Music'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?108495-Announce-LMSmusly-play-similar-music)
| 'LMSlib2go' (https://www.nexus0.net/pub/sw/lmslib2go/)
HowTos: 'build a self-contained LMS'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?99648-Howto-build-a-self-contained-LMS)
| 'Ogg Opus'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?107011-Howto-play-Ogg-Opus-files)
| 'Bluetooth/ALSA'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?107230-Howto-Bluetooth-streaming-to-from-LMS-(ALSA-only-no-PulseAudio))

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