Re: MetaCard ftp site
On Aug 11, 2015, at 1:59 AM, Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com wrote: Is this FTP site defunct? ftp://ftp.metacard.com/MetaCard and if it is not is there some reason it is password protected? Richmond. I have a copy of the MetaCard files here: http://www.canelasoftware.com/metacard.html http://www.canelasoftware.com/metacard.html Best regards, Mark Talluto canelasoftware.com CassiaDB: The easy to use, free local storage database made for LiveCode Developers: livecloud.io ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Codeweek?
I wonder why there is no LiveCode here: http://codeweek.eu/resources/ This IS just the sort of place where RunRev should be peddling LiveCode. Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Jane Austen's peculiarity
On 10/08/15 23:51, hh wrote: Richmond, this was your last post to this thread before mine. My current version is here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ja47l87gg87sn0q/AAAIj99kEQVOb8ev3jz8C5ORa?dl=0 File : TA.zip play with it, rip it to pieces, improve it: go on, I dare you :) Richmond. So I downloaded this stack and wrote a script that implemented three ideas, two by other LCoders, one by me. Because you graciously ignored these ideas, I was simply curious about their effects on speed and selectivity (by using trueWords). I didn't play with your stack, I didn't rip it into pieces, but somehow improved it a bit in the sense of using effectively some available features of LC 7. It was no dare, I had fun. And you had obviously fun too, what a great speech! Who dares wins, you --- and me. I am most gratified to find that someone actually read and enjoyed one of my rants. Hermann p.s. Shouldn't the opening of your speech read I was _achieved_? ;-) Well it SHOULD (perhaps) read I have achieved, but at the point I wrote that I had not put the colourisation scripts into the relevant buttons, so the action had not been completed :) It could not read I was achieved in the way Jane Austen was using that sort of structure because 'achieve' is a TRANSITIVE verb. Richmond wrote: I am achieving what I initially set out to achieve, and with far less code than yours, so have no intention of changing anything. I, also, am a lucky sort of chap insofar as I don't really mind that much if my stack takes 3 days to work its way through a corpus . . . I can go and do some teaching, read a book, cook some food, go for a bike ride, talk to my wife, play with my cats, and so on. That has ALWAYS been my approach to programming for one simple reason: working every holiday for very many years indeed on a farm on an island I had to sort out broken bailers, tractors and so on. Now proper spares had to come, on a ferry, at a vast transportation overhead, from the mainland of Scotland. We could not afford that, so we fossicked (lovely verb) for whatever would do the job in the 'graveyard' of broken tractors, cars, stuff we had picked up from the local dump, and so on. Every single time we got our accursed bailer to bail the straw and the hay, we got the cotter pins we needed to connect the tractor to the plough, harrow, muck-spreader or whatever; never very elegant, but they worked. In fact my younger son was on that farm just 8 days ago and was shown some of my repair work by the farmer's son (the farmer is long dead); still functional after 25 years. I have, just, worked out a way to colourise the items I want, and while, churning through some socking great corpus that would take days, I only need it to colourise the sentences the previous routine has extracted, so that won't take that long. You, if it really seems such a good idea (and is it?) are more than welcome to download my stack https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ja47l87gg87sn0q/AAAIj99kEQVOb8ev3jz8C5ORa?dl=0 File: TA.zip and mess around with the script to your heart's content. AND, while we are talking about time-consuming exercises: having put 4 hours of work into the thing, that seems, already, a bit more than the thing deserves as I am not interested in winning the Tour de France, simply extracting some data from a million word corpus with absolutely no deadline at all unless I choose to impose one. The results MAY get rolled into a paper my wife and I are THINKING of writing for an academic conference . . . . Almost ALL the stacks I have thrown out into the public domain in the last 6 months have come back to me with comments about how my code is clunky, inefficient, and so forth; and I would not doubt for a minute that that is probably true. HOWEVER, as far as I am concerned there is one enormous advantage about my code above thine, or anybody else's; while thy code and the code of many others is probably more efficient, more clever and gets things done more quickly, I don't understand the finer points of it, while I understand how my code works 100% because it was written by me, follows my logic, and does what I require it to do. It is always entertaining and instructive to see how people react to my code, and I often learn a lot from their reactions (not least about human psychology), including new coding tricks - but there always come a point where the burden of having to plough through other people's code (reflecting the way their minds work) feels like too much in comparison from anything I might learn from it. --- I also suspect that very many people share my interest in getting the job done rather than producing posh code. RunRev claim, on their website, that one can learn to code quickly. With Livecode one can learn how to code RELATIVELY quickly, up to a certain point; and many people who are not programmers qua programmers should be attracted by that because they have probably got other things to do
MetaCard ftp site
Is this FTP site defunct? ftp://ftp.metacard.com/MetaCard and if it is not is there some reason it is password protected? Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Can LC chat server run on the following platform?
Hello, There is a Kickstarter project that is an interesting server in itself but I wanted to know if I could run a LC chatserver on it as well? It is called spreedbox ( https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/spreed/spreedbox-the-most-private-video-chat-and-file-exc/comments ) But according to the specs it is sunning a version of Ubuntu on a ARM processor so since it isn't Android or iOS I am not sure that LC can run on it. If LC can run on it is there a special build I need to get? Any information on how I can use this server with LC would be greatly appreciated. regards, Glen ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
enable/disable menu doesn't find the object
Hello, I have two alternative menubars in my program. Most times when I am trying to enable or disable menus with: disable menu Foo I get the error no such object When using explicit: disable btn Foo of grp Menubar1 of stack myStack the menu gets disabled. Any ideas, what could cause that the menu isn't found with syntax 1? Thanks Tiemo ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Can LC chat server run on the following platform?
It's basically a Raspberry Pi 2 running 32 bit Ubuntu - so I'd guess yes - will no more soon as I'm heading down that route and will be testing a server on a similar configuration. On 11 August 2015 at 13:42, Glen Bojsza gboj...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, There is a Kickstarter project that is an interesting server in itself but I wanted to know if I could run a LC chatserver on it as well? It is called spreedbox ( https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/spreed/spreedbox-the-most-private-video-chat-and-file-exc/comments ) But according to the specs it is sunning a version of Ubuntu on a ARM processor so since it isn't Android or iOS I am not sure that LC can run on it. If LC can run on it is there a special build I need to get? Any information on how I can use this server with LC would be greatly appreciated. regards, Glen ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Jane Austen's peculiarity
Of course I couldn't resist a tinker. I too am into text manipulation/searching and wondered how I would go about this. I looked at the repeat loops and realised they would run much faster if they were inverted as I am sure the list of verbs would be less than the lines of text being searched. I also wanted to use a repeat for each construct as this is usually orders of magnitude faster. But this meant I needed the line count and adding a counter seemed counter productive. So I settled on using the lineoffset. Here was my go... on mouseUp put empty into fld COOKED put empty into fld STARTT put empty into fld STOPT put empty into lCooked1 put started : the long time into fld STARTT put the milliseconds into st put fld TEKST into TEKST put fld WERBS into WERBS put 0 into acounter put the number of lines of TEKST into numlines repeat for each line KWERBS in WERBS put wasKWERBS into FRAZE put were KWERBS into FRAZE2 put 0 into loffesta put 0 into loffestb put 1 into lcounta put 1 into lcountb repeat while lcounta 0 put lineoffset(FRAZE,TEKST,loffesta) into lcounta if lcounta = 0 then exit repeat end if put lcounta + loffesta into thelinea put thelinea :line thelinea of TEKST cr after lCooked1 put lcounta into loffesta end repeat repeat while lcountb 0 put lineoffset(FRAZE2,TEKST,loffestb) into lcountb if lcountb = 0 then exit repeat end if put lcountb + loffestb into thelineb put thelineb : line thelineb of TEKST cr after lCooked1 put lcountb into loffestb end repeat end repeat put the number of lines of lCooked1 found put lcooked1 into fld Cooked put finished : the long time into fld STOPT put the milliseconds into nd put nd - st into fld TIMET end mouseUp I haven't tried returning to the original repeat order to see if this was faster but running the above on Richmond's sample stack for the WAS/WERE case delivered a result of three lines.. 2663 : officers, who in comparison with the stranger, were become stupid, 731 : was returned in due form. Miss Bennet's pleasing manners grew on the 4116 : were returned, and to lament over his absence from the Netherfield ball. in 89 msec on my Mac running LC7.1Dp1 I was then going to examine colourising the found chunks when I realised that the supplied text had line breaks within each paragraph. This means none of the proposed solutions (including Richmond's own) will find the desired phrase if it falls across one of these line breaks. For my solution using lineoffset this is a dead end WHILE these line breaks within a paragraph remain. For the other solutions a simple expedient is to increase the number of FRAZEs to four... put wasKWERBS into FRAZE put was crKWERBS into FRAZE2 put were KWERBS into FRAZE3 put were cr KWERBS into FRAZE4 This addition makes the extra FRAZES two lines and thus non valid arguments for a lineoffset function. or so I thought. However given the unpredictability of the formatting of the text this was a much too simplistic solution. This solution breaks down where paragraphs are indented using spaces! So, to keep the formatting as read in is problematic without knowing the formatting used. But if the focus is the actual text, then perhaps the fancy formatting is not important. Processing the text BEFORE searching so as to remove embedded line breaks and space padding allows my original code to work fine. inserting the following before the REPEATS does the trick (at least with the example text replace return with ^* in TEKST put \s+ into lmultispace put replacetext (TEKST,lmultispace, ) into TEKST replace ^*^* with return in TEKST replace ^* with in TEKST replace return with return return in TEKST The only downside being the time to execute went from 89 msec to 616 msec. you mileage may vary. NOTE: My method does not identify multiple instances of the FRAZE within a single line, however once it is found in a line it would be simple to see if it occurred again. Thanks for the diversion Richmond. James ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Table field colored rows question
Hi, some code to make alternating row colors for fields in LC http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/661/ListStripes_0_0_5 at least one of the attempts to improve on tableField is here. -- http://berndniggemann.on-rev.com/modTableField/modTableField_0_3_2.zip -- Kind regrards Bernd -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Table-field-colored-rows-question-tp4694807p4694811.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Android Status Bar?
Only possible on rooted devices, or in certain customized ROMs from XDA. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94RrpzL_w6E ~Roger On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 6:04 PM, Scott Rossi sc...@tactilemedia.com wrote: Is it possible to customize the appearance of the status bar, i.e. making it transparent, so we can make the overall stack appearance look more like the current Android OS? Thanks Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
OSX About and Help menu issue under LC676
I have an application that when built into a standalone under LC665, under OSX the About and Help menu work fine. The same application built under LC676 for OSX results in the all menu item under the Help menu (except for Apple's default search) greyed out and About under the Application menu does not work. I can find nothing in the LC676 release notes about any change to how the About and help menus are handled. I am working in LC (665 or 676) under Windows and build standalone for Windows and OSX, which, again, has been working fine under LC665 (and earlier), but not the About and Help don't work under LC676. Was this some Cocoa related change in the LC6.7.x series? Can some one verify this issue? Any one know why this might be happening. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Table field colored rows question
Hi list Is there a quick way, like a property, to have successive rows of a table field in alternate colors, like white, grey, white, grey, etc ? I checked the graphic effects, but didn't find anything of the sort... I'm using LC community 6.5.2 on OSX. Thanks in advance. jbv ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Jane Austen's peculiarity
On 11/08/15 17:31, James Hale wrote: snip This means none of the proposed solutions (including Richmond's own) will find the desired phrase if it falls across one of these line breaks. snip Wow! Very valuable point: thanks. Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Table field colored rows question
I guess you missed Scott Rossi’s announcement a few days ago… Paul I recently posted a little demo of a technique to customize a field with alternating colored lines, making a row-based table with no additional objects. You can download the stack from the forums: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7t=25002 Should work in LC5.5 and later. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On Aug 11, 2015, at 08:44, j...@souslelogo.com wrote: Hi list Is there a quick way, like a property, to have successive rows of a table field in alternate colors, like white, grey, white, grey, etc ? I checked the graphic effects, but didn't find anything of the sort... I'm using LC community 6.5.2 on OSX. Thanks in advance. jbv ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Table field colored rows question
On 8/11/2015 11:44 AM, j...@souslelogo.com wrote: Hi list Is there a quick way, like a property, to have successive rows of a table field in alternate colors, like white, grey, white, grey, etc ? I checked the graphic effects, but didn't find anything of the sort... I'm using LC community 6.5.2 on OSX. Thanks in advance. jbv The Datagrid object supports alternating row colors, but the they are not part of the table features of the standard LiveCode field object. If you want alternating row colors with a standard LC field, you would need to either code them yourself or several LC community members have created improved tables based on the LC field object. I think I recall that at least one of them included alternating row colors, but I can't remember who. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Release 6.7.7 RC 2
Dear List Members, We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 6.7.7 RC 2. This release is a maintenance release which contains regression fixes. The list of regressions fixed can be found in the Release Notes. *Getting the Release* To get the release please select Check For Updates from the Help menu in the product or download the installer directly at: http://downloads.livecode.com *6.7.7 Stable* The next release should occur in the beginning of the next week. It is planned to be the Stable release of LiveCode 6.7.7, unless regressions are noticed and need to be fixed. Warm regards, The LiveCode Team ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Colouring words
On Aug 10, 2015, at 12:15 PM, Richmond wrote: On 10/08/15 19:03, Mike Bonner wrote: oh. Assuming you're on a version of lc that supports truewords Mine all seem to support falsewords . . . Err, sorry, the mask slipped there a minute :/ I see that version 7.0.5 supports truewords, and that's good enough for me. Thanks for that one. Here's a quick and dirty command that does what you want. Requires the utility function wordoffsets(), which I posted a few days ago on another thread, also available in the Master Library. Call it by specifying the word, the color, and the field ref: colorizeWord was, red, the long id of fld text on colorizeWord pWord, pColor, fLongID put the text of fLongID into fText put wordoffsets(pWord,fText,true) into offList lock screen -- speeds up the routine considerably, as the screen refresh --only is done once repeat for each item i in offList set the textColor of word i of fLongID to pColor end repeat end colorizeWord You could modify this for LC 7+ to use trueword -- expand wordoffsets() to create a new function truewordoffsets(). Yet another example of how the offsets()/wordoffsets()/lineoffsets() functions make life so much easier…. (All these are in the Master Library.) Richmond: you may want to rename the function to colourizewords. :-) -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmb...@gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Release 6.7.7 RC 2
Updated to xCode 6.4 and installed LC 6.7.7 RC2 (Mac OS 10.10.4). App runs fine in the iPad 8.4 simulator but when I compile and install onto an iPad running iOS 8.4, I run into the following: If I select 8.4 or later as the build for iOS version, when I try to install the app onto the iPad xCode reports: The Info.plist for application at app location specifies a minimum OS version of 8.4.0, which is too high to be installed on iPad. If I select iOS 8.3 or later the app installs on the iPad but fails to run with the error (app uses encryption): SSL library not found I also note that no matter what version of iOS I select in the Standalone Application Settings, when I quit and relaunch LC, the iOS version has reset to 5.1.1 or later App runs fine under LC 6.7.6, xCode 6.3 and iOS 8.3. Have submitted bug report. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Release-6-7-7-RC-2-tp4694810p4694816.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Describing LiveCode
I am having a problem with a load of belligerent parents who seem quite unable to understand what LiveCode is. These parents work at the local Non-Ferrous Metals factory and are highly skilled engineers, but learnt their programming when I did (i.e. when the dinosaurs were alive), and need to be slapped with a description of the sort they can understand. The truth of the matter is that almost all of them are probably about a gazillion times better at FORTAN and Pascal than I ever was . . . Saying things like Hypercard on steroids brings only blank looks as these poor people, while I was enjoying getting bogged down in HC in Carbondale, Illinois, were fighting for survival during the mid-90s economic disaster that affected post-Communist countries. Now I came across this: http://www.metacard.com/wp1a.html Third generation includes most compiled languages, including older ones such as Pascal, Fortran, C, BASIC (Beginners All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code), and COBOL (COmmon Business Oriented Language), but also includes newer derivatives like C++ and Java Fourth generation languages are the proprietary languages used to develop database applications Scripting languages, like MetaTalk, Perl, ksh, Tcl, and Python, are most similar to 4GLs, but generally are even higher level and were designed to be general purpose tools rather than specifically for dealing with databases which is the sort of 'guff' they will understand [Hey, as far as I am concerned, who gives a monkey's - does the job, normally marvellously] but only goes half way. So . . . ? Am I to describe LiveCode as: 1. A fifth generation language? and if so, how will I explain the difference between that and 3rd and 4th G languages? Directly scriptable objects? No compiling nonsense? 2. Plastic bath toys? This will turn these people (with their kids) off instanter. 3. Something else? Being a retro sort of chap I just bought (!) /How to program C++/, second edition, 1998 for the princely sum of 1 Euro . . . well, as far as I'm concerned it IS worth having! Now, on page 10 it has this to say: C++ . . . provides a number of features that spruce up the C language, but more importantly, it provides capabilities for /object-oriented programming/. Which, from the point of view of a long-term LiveCode monomaniac (me) looks fine until you start looking for buttons, fields and so forth . . . Anyway, the C++ is going to be my bathroom book of the month and we'll see how far it gets me . . . HOWEVER, I am still left with these stroppy parents who cannot quite understand what the advantages of LiveCode over Pascal, FORTRAN and C++ might possibly be for their pre-adolescent children, because, while those kids might learn to program Mickey Mouse guff with LC they will still have to learn a Real Programming language when they are older [ this is when I have to sit on my hands and count to ten]. Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Choosing a database and LC tools
Hi Bill. Thanks for those insights. I'm not sure which route I'll take yet, but I would welcome access to your php script collection. Thanks, Tom Bodine On 8/10/2015 8:12 PM, Wprothero [via Runtime Revolution] wrote: Tom: I use Navicat to manage my databases. It will access a variety of online databases, and works with SQLite too. I use it all the time. In my app work, I use livecode with POST commands to php that talks to an online mySQL database. PHP is totally robust and won’t fail on you, and it’s built into most Apache installations. On Mac, there is also a great free tool called MAMP, which allows you to run a complete web server with php on your local machine, for debugging. Again, Navicat is your friend and will save you hours of wondering whether your data actually got into the db or not. I read that storage of images in a mySQL database isn’t recommended. But, I have stored them in SQLite db’s and it worked fine. Haven’t tried it on mySQL. I will send you some php scripts, if you are interested. Contact me offline. Best, Bill = *Bodine Training Games LLC* 8417 Hallet St., Lenexa, KS 66215 USA www.bodinetraininggames.com / 913-492-7709 -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Choosing-a-database-and-LC-tools-tp4694777p4694819.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Describing LiveCode
Hi Richmond, You covered a lot of information in your post. I know this message does not answer your question but when they mention C++ and object-oriented programming they are not talking about objects like fields buttons. If you are interested in object-oriented programming you might want to skip the C++ and go straight to objective-C. John Balgenorth On Aug 11, 2015, at 10:48 AM, Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com wrote: I am having a problem with a load of belligerent parents who seem quite unable to understand what LiveCode is. These parents work at the local Non-Ferrous Metals factory and are highly skilled engineers, but learnt their programming when I did (i.e. when the dinosaurs were alive), and need to be slapped with a description of the sort they can understand. The truth of the matter is that almost all of them are probably about a gazillion times better at FORTAN and Pascal than I ever was . . . Saying things like Hypercard on steroids brings only blank looks as these poor people, while I was enjoying getting bogged down in HC in Carbondale, Illinois, were fighting for survival during the mid-90s economic disaster that affected post-Communist countries. Now I came across this: http://www.metacard.com/wp1a.html Third generation includes most compiled languages, including older ones such as Pascal, Fortran, C, BASIC (Beginners All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code), and COBOL (COmmon Business Oriented Language), but also includes newer derivatives like C++ and Java Fourth generation languages are the proprietary languages used to develop database applications Scripting languages, like MetaTalk, Perl, ksh, Tcl, and Python, are most similar to 4GLs, but generally are even higher level and were designed to be general purpose tools rather than specifically for dealing with databases which is the sort of 'guff' they will understand [Hey, as far as I am concerned, who gives a monkey's - does the job, normally marvellously] but only goes half way. So . . . ? Am I to describe LiveCode as: 1. A fifth generation language? and if so, how will I explain the difference between that and 3rd and 4th G languages? Directly scriptable objects? No compiling nonsense? 2. Plastic bath toys? This will turn these people (with their kids) off instanter. 3. Something else? Being a retro sort of chap I just bought (!) /How to program C++/, second edition, 1998 for the princely sum of 1 Euro . . . well, as far as I'm concerned it IS worth having! Now, on page 10 it has this to say: C++ . . . provides a number of features that spruce up the C language, but more importantly, it provides capabilities for /object-oriented programming/. Which, from the point of view of a long-term LiveCode monomaniac (me) looks fine until you start looking for buttons, fields and so forth . . . Anyway, the C++ is going to be my bathroom book of the month and we'll see how far it gets me . . . HOWEVER, I am still left with these stroppy parents who cannot quite understand what the advantages of LiveCode over Pascal, FORTRAN and C++ might possibly be for their pre-adolescent children, because, while those kids might learn to program Mickey Mouse guff with LC they will still have to learn a Real Programming language when they are older [ this is when I have to sit on my hands and count to ten]. Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Choosing a database and LC tools
Thanks guys for the information on this! Very helpful. Tom Bodine -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Choosing-a-database-and-LC-tools-tp4694777p4694818.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Describing LiveCode
Hi Richmond You might be facing the same problem that I (as well as probably most of this list members) have been facing for years (if not decades) with students, teachers, colleagues and clients : a programming language HAS TO BE TOUGH to learn and use, otherwise it's considered as nothing but a toy... Old school programmers (mostly those trained with Fortran, Cobol and assembler) like to think of themselves as part of the happy few who understand what's inside the machine and are able to tweek it. From their point of view, the world will turn into chaos if anyone starts to master programing, just like it would turn to chaos if anyone would start practicing medicine... jbv ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Choosing a database and LC tools
Tom and Peter: Also, please note that: Best practice involves NOT sending a complete query, which I use in the demo. It’s not so bad, since I require a password as a sent parameter, and since it is intended that the query be generated by livecode in a protected script (not in an input field that anybody can access). It’s not a horrible security issue, but easily breakable by someone monitoring wifi or other network traffic or using a keylogger, etc. But, for critical information, you should modify the php code to use placeholders for the sql parameters and use ssh protocols to send the commands. I will implement this at some time soon, but don’t have it now. Glad to share when I get it done. Best, Bill On Aug 11, 2015, at 11:54 AM, William Prothero proth...@earthednet.org wrote: Tom and Peter: Here is a link to a working stack, that includes the php scripts, so you can see what’s involved. https://www.dropbox.com/s/zeldbpafcnno3x5/Db Access.zip?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/zeldbpafcnno3x5/Db%20Access.zip?dl=0 This link won’t last forever, so I’ll plan on keeping it active for a week. Good luck, Bill On Aug 11, 2015, at 11:24 AM, tbodine bod...@bodinetraininggames.com wrote: Hi Bill. Thanks for those insights. I'm not sure which route I'll take yet, but I would welcome access to your php script collection. Thanks, Tom Bodine On 8/10/2015 8:12 PM, Wprothero [via Runtime Revolution] wrote: Tom: I use Navicat to manage my databases. It will access a variety of online databases, and works with SQLite too. I use it all the time. In my app work, I use livecode with POST commands to php that talks to an online mySQL database. PHP is totally robust and won’t fail on you, and it’s built into most Apache installations. On Mac, there is also a great free tool called MAMP, which allows you to run a complete web server with php on your local machine, for debugging. Again, Navicat is your friend and will save you hours of wondering whether your data actually got into the db or not. I read that storage of images in a mySQL database isn’t recommended. But, I have stored them in SQLite db’s and it worked fine. Haven’t tried it on mySQL. I will send you some php scripts, if you are interested. Contact me offline. Best, Bill = *Bodine Training Games LLC* 8417 Hallet St., Lenexa, KS 66215 USA www.bodinetraininggames.com / 913-492-7709 -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Choosing-a-database-and-LC-tools-tp4694777p4694819.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Choosing a database and LC tools
Tom and Peter: Here is a link to a working stack, that includes the php scripts, so you can see what’s involved. https://www.dropbox.com/s/zeldbpafcnno3x5/Db Access.zip?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/zeldbpafcnno3x5/Db%20Access.zip?dl=0 This link won’t last forever, so I’ll plan on keeping it active for a week. Good luck, Bill On Aug 11, 2015, at 11:24 AM, tbodine bod...@bodinetraininggames.com wrote: Hi Bill. Thanks for those insights. I'm not sure which route I'll take yet, but I would welcome access to your php script collection. Thanks, Tom Bodine On 8/10/2015 8:12 PM, Wprothero [via Runtime Revolution] wrote: Tom: I use Navicat to manage my databases. It will access a variety of online databases, and works with SQLite too. I use it all the time. In my app work, I use livecode with POST commands to php that talks to an online mySQL database. PHP is totally robust and won’t fail on you, and it’s built into most Apache installations. On Mac, there is also a great free tool called MAMP, which allows you to run a complete web server with php on your local machine, for debugging. Again, Navicat is your friend and will save you hours of wondering whether your data actually got into the db or not. I read that storage of images in a mySQL database isn’t recommended. But, I have stored them in SQLite db’s and it worked fine. Haven’t tried it on mySQL. I will send you some php scripts, if you are interested. Contact me offline. Best, Bill = *Bodine Training Games LLC* 8417 Hallet St., Lenexa, KS 66215 USA www.bodinetraininggames.com / 913-492-7709 -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Choosing-a-database-and-LC-tools-tp4694777p4694819.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Describing LiveCode
On 11/08/15 21:46, Peter M. Brigham wrote: May be conducting a parents' night in which you demonstrate something simple with livecode to show its ease of access and manageable learning curve, then rope the kids in to show off what they have done, and finally summarize the advanced projects that people have used it for. In my experience, mentioning that LC powers the Landsat 7 satellite data collection enterprise usually gets people to sit up and open their eyes. Lots of similar applications mentioned on the LC website. Right: with Wine and cheese. Smashing idea! Richmond. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmb...@gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig On Aug 11, 2015, at 1:48 PM, Richmond wrote: I am having a problem with a load of belligerent parents who seem quite unable to understand what LiveCode is. These parents work at the local Non-Ferrous Metals factory and are highly skilled engineers, but learnt their programming when I did (i.e. when the dinosaurs were alive), and need to be slapped with a description of the sort they can understand. The truth of the matter is that almost all of them are probably about a gazillion times better at FORTAN and Pascal than I ever was . . . Saying things like Hypercard on steroids brings only blank looks as these poor people, while I was enjoying getting bogged down in HC in Carbondale, Illinois, were fighting for survival during the mid-90s economic disaster that affected post-Communist countries. Now I came across this: http://www.metacard.com/wp1a.html Third generation includes most compiled languages, including older ones such as Pascal, Fortran, C, BASIC (Beginners All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code), and COBOL (COmmon Business Oriented Language), but also includes newer derivatives like C++ and Java Fourth generation languages are the proprietary languages used to develop database applications Scripting languages, like MetaTalk, Perl, ksh, Tcl, and Python, are most similar to 4GLs, but generally are even higher level and were designed to be general purpose tools rather than specifically for dealing with databases which is the sort of 'guff' they will understand [Hey, as far as I am concerned, who gives a monkey's - does the job, normally marvellously] but only goes half way. So . . . ? Am I to describe LiveCode as: 1. A fifth generation language? and if so, how will I explain the difference between that and 3rd and 4th G languages? Directly scriptable objects? No compiling nonsense? 2. Plastic bath toys? This will turn these people (with their kids) off instanter. 3. Something else? Being a retro sort of chap I just bought (!) /How to program C++/, second edition, 1998 for the princely sum of 1 Euro . . . well, as far as I'm concerned it IS worth having! Now, on page 10 it has this to say: C++ . . . provides a number of features that spruce up the C language, but more importantly, it provides capabilities for /object-oriented programming/. Which, from the point of view of a long-term LiveCode monomaniac (me) looks fine until you start looking for buttons, fields and so forth . . . Anyway, the C++ is going to be my bathroom book of the month and we'll see how far it gets me . . . HOWEVER, I am still left with these stroppy parents who cannot quite understand what the advantages of LiveCode over Pascal, FORTRAN and C++ might possibly be for their pre-adolescent children, because, while those kids might learn to program Mickey Mouse guff with LC they will still have to learn a Real Programming language when they are older [ this is when I have to sit on my hands and count to ten]. Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Describing LiveCode
May be conducting a parents' night in which you demonstrate something simple with livecode to show its ease of access and manageable learning curve, then rope the kids in to show off what they have done, and finally summarize the advanced projects that people have used it for. In my experience, mentioning that LC powers the Landsat 7 satellite data collection enterprise usually gets people to sit up and open their eyes. Lots of similar applications mentioned on the LC website. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmb...@gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig On Aug 11, 2015, at 1:48 PM, Richmond wrote: I am having a problem with a load of belligerent parents who seem quite unable to understand what LiveCode is. These parents work at the local Non-Ferrous Metals factory and are highly skilled engineers, but learnt their programming when I did (i.e. when the dinosaurs were alive), and need to be slapped with a description of the sort they can understand. The truth of the matter is that almost all of them are probably about a gazillion times better at FORTAN and Pascal than I ever was . . . Saying things like Hypercard on steroids brings only blank looks as these poor people, while I was enjoying getting bogged down in HC in Carbondale, Illinois, were fighting for survival during the mid-90s economic disaster that affected post-Communist countries. Now I came across this: http://www.metacard.com/wp1a.html Third generation includes most compiled languages, including older ones such as Pascal, Fortran, C, BASIC (Beginners All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code), and COBOL (COmmon Business Oriented Language), but also includes newer derivatives like C++ and Java Fourth generation languages are the proprietary languages used to develop database applications Scripting languages, like MetaTalk, Perl, ksh, Tcl, and Python, are most similar to 4GLs, but generally are even higher level and were designed to be general purpose tools rather than specifically for dealing with databases which is the sort of 'guff' they will understand [Hey, as far as I am concerned, who gives a monkey's - does the job, normally marvellously] but only goes half way. So . . . ? Am I to describe LiveCode as: 1. A fifth generation language? and if so, how will I explain the difference between that and 3rd and 4th G languages? Directly scriptable objects? No compiling nonsense? 2. Plastic bath toys? This will turn these people (with their kids) off instanter. 3. Something else? Being a retro sort of chap I just bought (!) /How to program C++/, second edition, 1998 for the princely sum of 1 Euro . . . well, as far as I'm concerned it IS worth having! Now, on page 10 it has this to say: C++ . . . provides a number of features that spruce up the C language, but more importantly, it provides capabilities for /object-oriented programming/. Which, from the point of view of a long-term LiveCode monomaniac (me) looks fine until you start looking for buttons, fields and so forth . . . Anyway, the C++ is going to be my bathroom book of the month and we'll see how far it gets me . . . HOWEVER, I am still left with these stroppy parents who cannot quite understand what the advantages of LiveCode over Pascal, FORTRAN and C++ might possibly be for their pre-adolescent children, because, while those kids might learn to program Mickey Mouse guff with LC they will still have to learn a Real Programming language when they are older [ this is when I have to sit on my hands and count to ten]. Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Describing LiveCode
Richmond: I have had pretty much the same history as you, but started with punch cards on a mainframe less powerful than my thermostat. But, perhaps if you break it down like the kinds of knowledge that a programmer needs: 1. the flow and logic of a program (which applies to all platforms) 2. object oriented programming. 3. strategy and organization of code 4. a need to get kids interested with immediate rewards. 5. the evolving nature of authoring platforms Once you make these items clear, you might ask whether it is the language syntax that is important, or the organization of that syntax to create an outcome. The syntax is much more straightforward to learn than the organization. Will livecode help students learn to code in other languages? Of course it will. Only the syntax is different. Piece of cake! Good luck! Bill William A. Prothero, Ph.D. University of California, Santa Barbara Dept. of Earth Sciences (Emeritus) Santa Barbara, CA. 93105 http://es.earthednet.org/ my new project link http://earthednet.org/ptExplorer/Cover.html On Aug 11, 2015, at 10:48 AM, Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com wrote: I am having a problem with a load of belligerent parents who seem quite unable to understand what LiveCode is. These parents work at the local Non-Ferrous Metals factory and are highly skilled engineers, but learnt their programming when I did (i.e. when the dinosaurs were alive), and need to be slapped with a description of the sort they can understand. The truth of the matter is that almost all of them are probably about a gazillion times better at FORTAN and Pascal than I ever was . . . Saying things like Hypercard on steroids brings only blank looks as these poor people, while I was enjoying getting bogged down in HC in Carbondale, Illinois, were fighting for survival during the mid-90s economic disaster that affected post-Communist countries. Now I came across this: http://www.metacard.com/wp1a.html Third generation includes most compiled languages, including older ones such as Pascal, Fortran, C, BASIC (Beginners All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code), and COBOL (COmmon Business Oriented Language), but also includes newer derivatives like C++ and Java Fourth generation languages are the proprietary languages used to develop database applications Scripting languages, like MetaTalk, Perl, ksh, Tcl, and Python, are most similar to 4GLs, but generally are even higher level and were designed to be general purpose tools rather than specifically for dealing with databases which is the sort of 'guff' they will understand [Hey, as far as I am concerned, who gives a monkey's - does the job, normally marvellously] but only goes half way. So . . . ? Am I to describe LiveCode as: 1. A fifth generation language? and if so, how will I explain the difference between that and 3rd and 4th G languages? Directly scriptable objects? No compiling nonsense? 2. Plastic bath toys? This will turn these people (with their kids) off instanter. 3. Something else? Being a retro sort of chap I just bought (!) /How to program C++/, second edition, 1998 for the princely sum of 1 Euro . . . well, as far as I'm concerned it IS worth having! Now, on page 10 it has this to say: C++ . . . provides a number of features that spruce up the C language, but more importantly, it provides capabilities for /object-oriented programming/. Which, from the point of view of a long-term LiveCode monomaniac (me) looks fine until you start looking for buttons, fields and so forth . . . Anyway, the C++ is going to be my bathroom book of the month and we'll see how far it gets me . . . HOWEVER, I am still left with these stroppy parents who cannot quite understand what the advantages of LiveCode over Pascal, FORTRAN and C++ might possibly be for their pre-adolescent children, because, while those kids might learn to program Mickey Mouse guff with LC they will still have to learn a Real Programming language when they are older [ this is when I have to sit on my hands and count to ten]. Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Describing LiveCode
On 11/08/15 21:18, JB wrote: Hi Richmond, You covered a lot of information in your post. I know this message does not answer your question but when they mention C++ and object-oriented programming they are not talking about objects like fields buttons. I am aware that object-oriented programming does not talk about CONTROLS, but I am trying to express the conceptual problems that the parents I described might have when trying to take a jump from FORTRAN to LiveCode, possibly via object-oriented programming. Unfortunately, in Bulgaria, everybody thinks that C++ is the bee's knees; mainly because this is what they teach in the Mathematical specialist High Schools (they teach Pascal in the other High Schools - which is a farce as the teachers don't know Pascal and the teenagers are sufficiently switched on to realise that it is old hat). Now, I am not going to deny that C++ is a powerful programming language; but what I do know (even if, for the sake of argument, LiveCode is less powerful and less capable than C++), is that LiveCode beats the kilt off C++ in terms of getting young kids programming and understanding the underlying concepts of programming. However, the parents I have to explain things to, who are computer programmers, learnt their stuff in the 1980s and work in places where they have no need to learn more contemporary languages (note that I am avoiding the stink-word: 'modern'), and have never really given a moment's thought to what might happen if they suddenly find themselves at the road's end with a severance envelope. Just to really bang my message home: in Bulgaria's tax offices everything runs on DOS, using tax packages that were adopted when DOS was the latest 'thang'. Now, I don't actually see anything wrong (unlike a lot of other people) about using DOS and DOS-based software packages if they do the job that is required (why spend money and buckets of time retraining staff when your system works 100% the way you need it to?). What I do see as wrong is that very many adults, having done their training when they were at University (say in their early 20s) have never felt any need to update their knowledge about anything whatsoever since they graduated. This applies to teachers, doctors, lawyers and so on, as well as computer programmers. But, this is very much the majority view here in Bulgaria [this *may* be one of the reasons that Bulgaria is very much at the bottom of the treacle well when compared with other post-Communist bloc countries]. If you are interested in object-oriented programming you might want to skip the C++ and go straight to objective-C. I'm not that interested, as, at the moment, at least, LiveCode does almost all that I require (let's leave communicating back-and-forth between USB devices out of this discussion). What I am interested in is how to communicate adequately to people who have grown up with 3G languages the very great advantages (particularly from a pedagogical point of view) of LiveCode. While the C++ book I bought makes interesting reading, in parts, I cannot see myself bothering to learn to code anything beyond the most pedestrian stuff in it: even if for the simple reason that all that bother about /edit, preprocess, compile, link, load/ and /execute/ gives me the willies. In fact, thinking about /edit, preprocess, compile, link, load/ and /execute/ I really wonder what RunRev think they are doing, as the lack of all the fiddly stuff is half of what makes LiveCode so much better. RunRev's propaganda machine hasn't got off the ground! Richmond. John Balgenorth On Aug 11, 2015, at 10:48 AM, Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com wrote: I am having a problem with a load of belligerent parents who seem quite unable to understand what LiveCode is. These parents work at the local Non-Ferrous Metals factory and are highly skilled engineers, but learnt their programming when I did (i.e. when the dinosaurs were alive), and need to be slapped with a description of the sort they can understand. The truth of the matter is that almost all of them are probably about a gazillion times better at FORTAN and Pascal than I ever was . . . Saying things like Hypercard on steroids brings only blank looks as these poor people, while I was enjoying getting bogged down in HC in Carbondale, Illinois, were fighting for survival during the mid-90s economic disaster that affected post-Communist countries. Now I came across this: http://www.metacard.com/wp1a.html Third generation includes most compiled languages, including older ones such as Pascal, Fortran, C, BASIC (Beginners All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code), and COBOL (COmmon Business Oriented Language), but also includes newer derivatives like C++ and Java Fourth generation languages are the proprietary languages used to develop database applications Scripting languages, like MetaTalk, Perl, ksh, Tcl, and Python, are most similar to 4GLs, but
Re: Release 6.7.7 RC 2
There seems to be an issue with visual effects in iOS in this build, specifically with the push left/right effects and navigating between cards. There’s a flash that occurs after the animation finishes, where you very briefly see the card you just came from. This does not happen with LC 6.7.6. I’ll file a bug report, but thought I’d mention it here to see if anyone else has noticed. Thanks, Chris -- Chris Sheffield Read Naturally, Inc. www.readnaturally.com On Aug 11, 2015, at 10:17 AM, panagiotis merakos panos.mera...@livecode.com wrote: Dear List Members, We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 6.7.7 RC 2. This release is a maintenance release which contains regression fixes. The list of regressions fixed can be found in the Release Notes. *Getting the Release* To get the release please select Check For Updates from the Help menu in the product or download the installer directly at: http://downloads.livecode.com *6.7.7 Stable* The next release should occur in the beginning of the next week. It is planned to be the Stable release of LiveCode 6.7.7, unless regressions are noticed and need to be fixed. Warm regards, The LiveCode Team ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Describing LiveCode
Hi Richmond, I wrote this some time ago: http://www3.economy-x-talk.com/blog/2014/02/24/what-is-livecode/ Also, LiveCode really is a 4GL. Every 4GL has a specialisation. Some are for managing databases, others for instructing cutting machines, and again others for giving easy access to the API's of a GUI-based general-purpose operating system. Sometimes, I think I might have found a 5GL, but then I realise that essentially it still is 4GL. I was going to write a definition for a 5GL, but now I'm thinking this would be OT. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Installer Maker for LiveCode: http://qery.us/468 Buy my new book Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner http://qery.us/3fi LiveCode on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/ On 8/11/2015 19:48, Richmond wrote: I am having a problem with a load of belligerent parents who seem quite unable to understand what LiveCode is. These parents work at the local Non-Ferrous Metals factory and are highly skilled engineers, but learnt their programming when I did (i.e. when the dinosaurs were alive), and need to be slapped with a description of the sort they can understand. The truth of the matter is that almost all of them are probably about a gazillion times better at FORTAN and Pascal than I ever was . . . Saying things like Hypercard on steroids brings only blank looks as these poor people, while I was enjoying getting bogged down in HC in Carbondale, Illinois, were fighting for survival during the mid-90s economic disaster that affected post-Communist countries. Now I came across this: http://www.metacard.com/wp1a.html Third generation includes most compiled languages, including older ones such as Pascal, Fortran, C, BASIC (Beginners All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code), and COBOL (COmmon Business Oriented Language), but also includes newer derivatives like C++ and Java Fourth generation languages are the proprietary languages used to develop database applications Scripting languages, like MetaTalk, Perl, ksh, Tcl, and Python, are most similar to 4GLs, but generally are even higher level and were designed to be general purpose tools rather than specifically for dealing with databases which is the sort of 'guff' they will understand [Hey, as far as I am concerned, who gives a monkey's - does the job, normally marvellously] but only goes half way. So . . . ? Am I to describe LiveCode as: 1. A fifth generation language? and if so, how will I explain the difference between that and 3rd and 4th G languages? Directly scriptable objects? No compiling nonsense? 2. Plastic bath toys? This will turn these people (with their kids) off instanter. 3. Something else? Being a retro sort of chap I just bought (!) /How to program C++/, second edition, 1998 for the princely sum of 1 Euro . . . well, as far as I'm concerned it IS worth having! Now, on page 10 it has this to say: C++ . . . provides a number of features that spruce up the C language, but more importantly, it provides capabilities for /object-oriented programming/. Which, from the point of view of a long-term LiveCode monomaniac (me) looks fine until you start looking for buttons, fields and so forth . . . Anyway, the C++ is going to be my bathroom book of the month and we'll see how far it gets me . . . HOWEVER, I am still left with these stroppy parents who cannot quite understand what the advantages of LiveCode over Pascal, FORTRAN and C++ might possibly be for their pre-adolescent children, because, while those kids might learn to program Mickey Mouse guff with LC they will still have to learn a Real Programming language when they are older [ this is when I have to sit on my hands and count to ten]. Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Describing LiveCode
On 8/11/2015 2:21 PM, Richmond wrote: On 11/08/15 21:46, Peter M. Brigham wrote: May be conducting a parents' night in which you demonstrate something simple with livecode to show its ease of access and manageable learning curve, then rope the kids in to show off what they have done, and finally summarize the advanced projects that people have used it for. In my experience, mentioning that LC powers the Landsat 7 satellite data collection enterprise usually gets people to sit up and open their eyes. Lots of similar applications mentioned on the LC website. Right: with Wine and cheese. Smashing idea! That was going to be my suggestion too. Also include, as someone else suggested, an explanation of how LC teaches foundational programming skills in an easily understood way, which makes learning any other language much simpler. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Describing LiveCode
On Aug 11, 2015, at 12:20 PM, Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not that interested, as, at the moment, at least, LiveCode does almost all that I require (let's leave communicating back-and-forth between USB devices out of this discussion). What I am interested in is how to communicate adequately to people who have grown up with 3G languages the very great advantages (particularly from a pedagogical point of view) of LiveCode. While the C++ book I bought makes interesting reading, in parts, I cannot see myself bothering to learn to code anything beyond the most pedestrian stuff in it: even if for the simple reason that all that bother about /edit, preprocess, compile, link, load/ and /execute/ gives me the willies. In fact, thinking about /edit, preprocess, compile, link, load/ and /execute/ I really wonder what RunRev think they are doing, as the lack of all the fiddly stuff is half of what makes LiveCode so much better. RunRev's propaganda machine hasn't got off the ground! Richmond. LiveCode will be allowing the use of pointers and that is what your old school C++ parents who talk about object-oreinted programming are referring to. They point to a place in memory. These old schoolers will probably love the fact Livecode will be able to use these things without compiling. John Balgenorth ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Release 6.7.7 RC 2
On 08/11/2015 09:17 AM, panagiotis merakos wrote: Dear List Members, We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 6.7.7 RC 2. I'm a bit less pleased. The linux uninstaller no longer works for LC 6.7.7rc1 or rc2. http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15707 ...also rather annoyed that 15575 still hasn't been fixed. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Describing LiveCode
On 08/11/2015 12:21 PM, Richmond wrote: On 11/08/15 21:46, Peter M. Brigham wrote: May be conducting a parents' night in which you demonstrate something simple with livecode to show its ease of access and manageable learning curve, then rope the kids in to show off what they have done, and finally summarize the advanced projects that people have used it for. In my experience, mentioning that LC powers the Landsat 7 satellite data collection enterprise usually gets people to sit up and open their eyes. Lots of similar applications mentioned on the LC website. Right: with Wine and cheese. Smashing idea! ... and if it helps any, tell them that I have used LC in a commercial application to interpolate between a database that doesn't understand Windows ActiveX objects and Quickbooks, using the text and xml processing capabilities of LiveCode to talk to a C++ shim that in turn talks to the Quickbooks COM library. database -- text files -- LiveCode -- C++ shim -- Quickbooks COM object -- Quickbooks It's not the weirdest thing I've put together, but it's close. Could have done the whole thing in C++, but it would have taken five times as long to develop and debug and not been nearly as readable nor maintainable. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Set Variable or CustomProperty Names with and expression
I want to move data from one variable to several others by parsing one and passing them to another (s) In this scenario... the variable I want to pass them to needs to be named according to one of the search items like this: where I want variable based on category names like: lifeset godset meditation set etc. categories are e.g. life,god,meditation --- repeat for each line x in gAllQuotes repeat for each item y in tCategories if item 6 of x contains y then put x cr | after (t yset) end repeat end repeat set the uLifeSet of this stack to tlifeset --- But apparently this is illegal... a variable name cannot be the result of an expression. I suppose I should think about using arrays, but this is a very small amount of text data (less than 200K of line/tab delimited data) and I never found the processing time for just parsing delimited text to be that serious an issue... Any clues? I'll sleep on this...perhaps get an answer in a dream tonite. If not, I'll be looking for one here BR ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Describing LiveCode
Richmond, My advise is similar to Peter, William and Jacque's, but more blunt! First ask how many of these parents know how to set up a Facebook page, send a Tweet, interact with Instagram, send a message on SnapChat, change the ringtone on their phone on a per individual basis and even block certain incoming phone calls based on who it is and what the time is. When their eye's glaze over and it's clear that the vast majority of them don't use social media or bother with these features on the smart phone then point out that their children do. Make it quite clear that the parents are dinosaurs and their ideas of what programming is about is way out dated and leading their children to coding extinction*. Let them know that their children a growing up in a rapidly changing technology environment and need a technology/programming language that is equally as rapid at keeping pace with this change. Ask their parents if their children are like them, do they have boundless patience, do they sit down with an Airfix model and spend hours and hours meticulously preparing the parts so they fit perfectly. Appropriate parts are painted in several coats over several days because each coat is allowed to dry fully before the next is applied. Then the parts are carefully glued together and then finally finished off with the last coats of paint and the application of transfers. OR, do their children prefer to play 1st person shootem-ups and are easily bored if anything takes longer than about 2 min 13 sec? Ask the parents how long it took them to write their first 'real' program (Hello World doesn't count). LiveCode is a Rapid Development program highly suited to today's environment not only allowing the rapid development of applications but also keeping pace with the ever changing platform/capabilities now and in the future. Tried to find that video of Kevin writing an app in a couple of minutes - it picked the Lucky Door prize winner. But I couldn't find it on the website. As for why learn LiveCode now when their children are going to learn a real programming language later on, this is a completely fallacious in that assumes that their children have any interest at all in programming. On the other side of the coin is the possibility that they might in fact be learning LiveCode in the future: https://livecode.com/gracemount -high-school/ * Note the inference that classic languages are perceived by students as boring and can do more to turn students off. As you are in Scotland it should also be pointed out that the Scottish Schools using a product from a Scotland based company should be something your parents should be wholeheartedly supporting. What is true is that if their children are going to develop any kind of interest in programming, and go on to desire to pursue a coding profession, then having learnt LC isn't going to be a detriment, the principles learnt will stand them in good stead should they decide to try C#, C++, C or even go on an archaeological dig and try FORTRAN or Assembly. So, for those few children (not the parents) who actually do have a real desire to learn coding, then LC will kindle that fire; anything else will be like throwing logs on the smouldering embers and do nothing but smother the fire. Definitely visit the LiveCode stories pages ( https://livecode.com/livecode-stories/ ) and along with the Landsat story, pick a few more. There seem to be a few educational orientated ones that support the notion that LC with kindle the fire. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: MetaCard ftp site
Thank you! John Balgenorth On Aug 11, 2015, at 3:48 PM, Mark Talluto use...@canelasoftware.com wrote: On Aug 11, 2015, at 1:59 AM, Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com wrote: Is this FTP site defunct? ftp://ftp.metacard.com/MetaCard and if it is not is there some reason it is password protected? Richmond. I have a copy of the MetaCard files here: http://www.canelasoftware.com/metacard.html http://www.canelasoftware.com/metacard.html Best regards, Mark Talluto canelasoftware.com CassiaDB: The easy to use, free local storage database made for LiveCode Developers: livecloud.io ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Get Modification Date of a Single File
can we check the modification date of a single file? use case: mobile; get date of local file resource; ping LC server check on mod date of the same resource, if latter is younger, then fetch it -- Swasti Astu, Be Well! Brahmanathaswami Kauai's Hindu Monastery www.HimalayanAcademy.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Get Modification Date of a Single File
I don’t have a mobile but on the older versions for desktops you use Files command. The detailed files form returns a list of files, one file per line. Each line contains the following attributes, separated by commas: * The file's name, URL-encoded * The file's size in bytes (on Mac OS and OS X systems, the size of the file's data fork) * The resource fork size in bytes (Mac OS and OS X systems only) * The file's creation date in seconds (Mac OS, OS X, and Windows systems only) * The file's modification date in seconds * The file's last-accessed date in seconds (Unix, OS X and Windows systems only) * The file's last-backup date in seconds (Mac OS and OS X systems only) * The file's owner (Unix and OS X systems only) * The file's group owner (Unix and OS X systems only) * The file's access permissions * The file's creator and file type (Mac OS and OS X only) Any attribute that is not supported on the current system is reported as empty. John Balgenorth On Aug 11, 2015, at 7:17 PM, Brahmanathaswami bra...@hindu.org wrote: can we check the modification date of a single file? use case: mobile; get date of local file resource; ping LC server check on mod date of the same resource, if latter is younger, then fetch it -- Swasti Astu, Be Well! Brahmanathaswami Kauai's Hindu Monastery www.HimalayanAcademy.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
