Re: [OT] Politics

[dunbarx]

Well and good Richmond.


(Really. A semi-automatic?)


Craig



-Original Message-
From: RM 
To: How to use LiveCode 
Sent: Sat, May 14, 2016 3:00 pm
Subject: [OT] Politics

I'd just like to state that I'm sorry I made a political statement
a few messages back (pace Donald Trump).

Richmond.

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Re: Defaults for groups

[RM]

I have just posted a solution to this problem here:

http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7=27280

Richmond.

On 14.05.2016 11:31, RM wrote:

Yes, this is a nuisance, on all versions of Livecode.

When I combine a background image that is, say, 128 by 128 pixels with 
various front images to do either an "import snapshot"
or an "export snapshot" (something I do on average about four times a 
day), I would love to end up with an image that is 128 by 128 pixels,

and not a bigger thing with a border of transparent pixels.

Richmond.

On 14.05.2016 07:18, Jerry Jensen wrote:
On May 13, 2016, at 8:12 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami 
 wrote:


Am I the only one wishing that when we create a group the defaults 
should be no border, no border width assign and margins 0?

I’m with you on this.
.Jerry


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Re: [ANN] Release 8.0.1 RC-1

[Skip Kimpel]

+1

> On May 13, 2016, at 9:54 PM, mwie...@ahsoftware.net wrote:
> 
> 
> Quoting "J. Landman Gay" :
> 
>>> On 5/13/2016 2:27 PM, Matthias Rebbe wrote:
>>> 
>>> Sometimes i find myself opening LC6 or 7 just to use the
>>> dictionary of that version.
>> 
>> I do the same.
> 
> Same here.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
> 
> 
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[OT] Politics

[RM]

I'd just like to state that I'm sorry I made a political statement
a few messages back (pace Donald Trump).

Richmond.

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Re: Infinite LiveCode - Message from CEO

[RM]

I admit you are right.

Richmond.

On 14.05.2016 17:01, Richard Gaskin wrote:

RM wrote:

> AND, as to "complaining"; I often wonder where one draws the lines
> between "complaints", positive criticism and negative criticism.

I'd venture that filing a bug report is useful and productive, but 
waging a social media campaign about every annoyance with posts here, 
to the forums, and one or more social media networks less so.


And infinitely less so if such a campaign doesn't also eventually 
include a bug report.


Maybe better to just write the bug report.




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Change mobile settings

[Ludovic THEBAULT]

Hello,

Until now, i’ve used a little stack to update the mobile settings in the 
Livecode application (/Applications/LiveCode Indy 
7.1.4.app/Contents/Tools/Runtime/iOS/Device-8_2/Settings.plist) for example to 
indicate my app as French.

With the 7.14 version, this stack doesn’t work because « i need admin privilege 
». I think is because the Livecode app is signed (at first launch we can see an 
verification from gatekeeper).
But how i can change (even manually) these settings if livecode is signed ?

Thanks
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Re: Infinite LiveCode - Message from CEO

[Earthednet-wp]

Is the glass half empty, or half full? Life seems to be much happier for those 
focus their assessment on the half full part. In Livecode's case it seems to be 
98% (or higher) full. But then we still can't forget about the last 2%, while 
still honoring the 98%. Anybody who has worked with Adobe Director is aware of 
the enormous contrast between Adobe's way of doing things and Livecode's. 

Just my 2 cents.

>From my reading of these postings over the year, I observe that the best 
>approach from the community is to cheer on the team for their successes while 
>giving them the feedback they need to fix what remains. i also note that there 
>will always be things that remain to be fixed or added.

Best,
Bill 



William Prothero
http://es.earthednet.org

> On May 14, 2016, at 9:03 AM, Ralph DiMola  wrote:
> 
> 
> Maybe better to just write the bug report.
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Systems
> 
> Amen.
> 
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> 
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Re: SVG Widgets Work Well -- User Contributions - Screen Casts

[Matt Maier]

I found that GifCam is great for making little feature animations that are
easier to share and embed than videos.
On May 14, 2016 01:30, "Earthednet-wp"  wrote:

> Great idea! I'd like to see that happen.
> Bill
>
> William Prothero
> http://es.earthednet.org
>
> > On May 13, 2016, at 4:19 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami <
> bra...@hindu.org> wrote:
> >
> > SVG widget, despite limitations at the moment, is awesome making icons.
> No more PNG's that go "all bust up" if you resize them…
> >
> >
> >
> > Go to iconfinder.com… download what you want as svg.
> >
> >
> >
> > Note that there are cases where the svg is in several paths. So if you
> open in Illustrator, select all and make compound path, save and *then* use
> that in the SVG widget… it works.. even unexpectedly where you may have
> e.g. 3 dots that you would think must be independent paths…
> >
> >
> >
> > My suggestion is that you might better expose that tip on making
> compound paths.
> >
> >
> >
> > Which then leads my question on user contributions channels. Let's say
> we discover something useful that we feel is really buried in terms of what
> newbies would need and might be frustrated trying to find.
> >
> >
> >
> > How does one best get that into the mix of documentatin/tutorials.
> Another useful channel I see is YouTube itself… lots of people posting
> things like "How to do this in Outlook"   3 minutes, max
> >
> >
> >
> > But it is fragmented.
> >
> >
> >
> > We do a lot of small tech screen casts internally and it would be
> trivioal for me or many others to start recording video and just do a "Up
> and Running with SVG Icon"   2 minutes, open stack, drag SVG icon out.
> Switch to browser, download SVG switch to illustrator, make compound path,
> open in Atom, copy and paste into Livecod… and verbalize the gotchas  like
> "if your path doesn't start with "m" then it wont' work… be sure to select
> between the quotes… you don't need all that code at the top. Etc."
> >
> >
> >
> > So if one did make such a screen cast. Where would it go
> >
> >
> >
> > We are not talking about issues/problems or work around, but just things
> that actually do work but which may be obscure.
> >
> >
> >
> > BR
> >
> >
> >
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Re: Infinite LiveCode - Message from CEO

[Ralph DiMola]

Maybe better to just write the bug report.
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems

Amen.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services

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Re: Infinite LiveCode - Message from CEO

[Richard Gaskin]

RM wrote:

> AND, as to "complaining"; I often wonder where one draws the lines
> between "complaints", positive criticism and negative criticism.

I'd venture that filing a bug report is useful and productive, but 
waging a social media campaign about every annoyance with posts here, to 
the forums, and one or more social media networks less so.


And infinitely less so if such a campaign doesn't also eventually 
include a bug report.


Maybe better to just write the bug report.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com


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Re: Defaults for groups

[Richard Gaskin]

lc at pbh.on-rev.com lc wrote:

> I thought you should be able to set the templateGroup properties,
> maybe using a plugin that opens on LC startup, so I tried a test
> stack and found that the templateGroup props don’t apply to a new
> group (at least not the margins and borderWidth), the dictionary
> suggests this should work, so I tried it in LC 7 - no luck, then LC 5
> - still no luck! so I guess this is a long standing bug that doesn’t
> affect anyone…

It's quantum:  setting the margins of the templateGroup both works and 
doesn't work. :)


This works:

on mouseUp
   set the margins of the templateGroup to 0
   create group
   put the margins of grp 1
end mouseUp

...but then commenting out line 1 and running it a second time doesn't.

I presume this is because the IDE resets the template objects in order 
for controls made with it to be consistent.


Understandable, but I would argue that that's backwards from what should 
be done.


The template objects are engine features, and for LiveCode to provide 
truly live coding the IDE needs to allow engine defaults as much as 
possible, to minimize confusing differences between development and 
runtime.  Indeed, that's the whole point of choosing an xTalk: 
development and runtime are the same thing, at least as much as 
possible.  We're coding live.


Obviously the IDE needs to set up objects we might drag from the Tools 
palette so they're consistent.


Right now it seems the IDE periodically resets the template objects, but 
this prevents developers from taking full advantage of that very 
valuable language feature.


I believe it would be better to add two lines of script to isolate the 
unique requirements of the IDE:


   put the properties of the templateGroup into tSaveProps
   DoStuffHere
   set the properties of the tenplateGroup to tSaveProps

If the IDE did that, we wouldn't need to do that every time we write a 
script that uses the template objects.


Indeed, if the template objects were left alone by the IDE, developers 
can very easily tailor their environment however they like with a very 
simple plugin.


And any apps they're writing that make good use of template objects 
would behave the same both in the IDE and as a standalone.  And that's 
rather the point of using an xTalk.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com


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Re: Infinite LiveCode - Message from CEO

[Erik Beugelaar]

Some math of me ;-)

(define infinite_liveCode (lambda(livecode_members)
(lambda(pledge) (* livecode_members pledge))
   ))


Fill in the parameters above by yourself and RunRev is not asking this time too 
much to accomplish this:

– You’ll be able to wrap complex C libraries on any platform. (You can access C 
in Builder today however the syntax for doing it is fairly basic.)
– You’ll be able to access Java libraries on Android and Objective-C on iOS & 
Mac OS
– We’ll complete the set of features for working with each of these languages 
to make it easy for you to work with them all.
– We’ll extend the basic Widget Building Course. Together we will build a new 
native field object for iOS and Android with a full set of lessons, Google 
hangouts and source code. That will form a template that you can use to wrap 
any other native platform control.
– We’ll do the same and build together a new wrapper around SQLite, again on 
all platforms.
– And finally, we’ll wrap the audio recording APIs on all platforms in the same 
way. All of this will be documented and reusable.


If everybody who is reading this list pledging approx 50 bucks will bring us 
all more ways to extend the LiveCode platform which is already a long story 
(esp. regarding to the Android missing external SDK) which now can be stopped 
(I hope).



Kind regards,
Erik 





Sent from solidit    






On 14/05/16 11:01, "use-livecode on behalf of RM" 
 wrote:

>
>
>On 14.05.2016 11:40, Monte Goulding wrote:
>> I'm not overly fond of the direction this conversation is going. Us v them 
>> is unproductive and there are many benefits to the platform for going open 
>> source.
>>
>>> AND, as to "complaining"; I often wonder where one draws the lines between 
>>> "complaints"
>>> positive criticism and negative criticism.
>> I would draw the line on complaints v positive criticism at whether it is a 
>> well written bug report. It's not hard to work out why it is less 
>> constructive to raise issues elsewhere. Negative criticism would be things 
>> like unnecessary negative statements about new versions of the platform on 
>> your Facebook page about learning it...
>
>If that "jibe" is directed at me you might like to reflect on the nature 
>and the target audience of my Facebook page:
>
>https://www.facebook.com/RMLCclasses/?fref=nf
>
>This is a support page for the classes I teach every summer to to 
>children between 8/9 and 16 who have
>NO experience of programming at all.
>
>It is also being followed by approx. 15 kids (that's the number who have 
>reverted to me so I am aware of them)
>  outwith Bulgaria who are using those examples offered there to learn 
>Livecode themselves.
>
>The comment to which you no doubt refer: "While Livecode is supposedly 
>"Stable" it is really NOT ready for use, so best left alone at present."
>
>is only there because I am well aware that children getting ready to 
>attend my classes this summer will go to the download page and see
>Livecode 8. Should they download Livecode 8 they will be faced with 
>something that is far more complex than Livecode 7. It is not suitable
>for the Summer classes I shall be teaching this summer, both because of 
>the complexity I referred to, and the fact that it is not as stable as 
>Livecode 7.
>
>This is NOT negative criticism, this is a message tailored for a certain 
>audience.
>
>I will consider, next year, should I conduct summer programming classes 
>then, introducing children to Livecode 8 on the last class
>of their course.
>
>Teaching people how to drive a articulated lorry with a gear stick that 
>coupled with a splitter allows one 16 gears is daft if they, first,
>haven't learnt how to drive a salon car. Especially if the artic. lorry 
>has a small problem with some of its synchro-mesh.
>
>That is NOT a negative criticism, it is a statement of informed opinion.
>
>Here's an example of negative criticism: "The heads-up display in the 
>Toyota Sprongo is useless."
>
>It is negative both because it uses a word that stops one dead in one's 
>tracks, and offers no suggestions as to how one might
>sort that problem out.
>
>"Not ready for use" leaves the door open, that, in time, the thing will 
>be ready for use.
>
>One thing that you may be unaware of is that I am an educator with many 
>years experience of working with children, and
>while I may be capable of all sorts of clever things, that is probably 
>because at the age of 54 and buckets of study I have built
>up a body of knowledge which the average 10 year old does not possess. 
>So I cut my coat to suit those children on that Facebook page.
>
>Best, Richmond.
>>
>> Monte
>>
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Re: Infinite LiveCode - Message from CEO

[RM]

On 14.05.2016 11:40, Monte Goulding wrote:

I'm not overly fond of the direction this conversation is going. Us v them is 
unproductive and there are many benefits to the platform for going open source.


AND, as to "complaining"; I often wonder where one draws the lines between 
"complaints"
positive criticism and negative criticism.

I would draw the line on complaints v positive criticism at whether it is a 
well written bug report. It's not hard to work out why it is less constructive 
to raise issues elsewhere. Negative criticism would be things like unnecessary 
negative statements about new versions of the platform on your Facebook page 
about learning it...


If that "jibe" is directed at me you might like to reflect on the nature 
and the target audience of my Facebook page:


https://www.facebook.com/RMLCclasses/?fref=nf

This is a support page for the classes I teach every summer to to 
children between 8/9 and 16 who have

NO experience of programming at all.

It is also being followed by approx. 15 kids (that's the number who have 
reverted to me so I am aware of them)
 outwith Bulgaria who are using those examples offered there to learn 
Livecode themselves.


The comment to which you no doubt refer: "While Livecode is supposedly 
"Stable" it is really NOT ready for use, so best left alone at present."


is only there because I am well aware that children getting ready to 
attend my classes this summer will go to the download page and see
Livecode 8. Should they download Livecode 8 they will be faced with 
something that is far more complex than Livecode 7. It is not suitable
for the Summer classes I shall be teaching this summer, both because of 
the complexity I referred to, and the fact that it is not as stable as 
Livecode 7.


This is NOT negative criticism, this is a message tailored for a certain 
audience.


I will consider, next year, should I conduct summer programming classes 
then, introducing children to Livecode 8 on the last class

of their course.

Teaching people how to drive a articulated lorry with a gear stick that 
coupled with a splitter allows one 16 gears is daft if they, first,
haven't learnt how to drive a salon car. Especially if the artic. lorry 
has a small problem with some of its synchro-mesh.


That is NOT a negative criticism, it is a statement of informed opinion.

Here's an example of negative criticism: "The heads-up display in the 
Toyota Sprongo is useless."


It is negative both because it uses a word that stops one dead in one's 
tracks, and offers no suggestions as to how one might

sort that problem out.

"Not ready for use" leaves the door open, that, in time, the thing will 
be ready for use.


One thing that you may be unaware of is that I am an educator with many 
years experience of working with children, and
while I may be capable of all sorts of clever things, that is probably 
because at the age of 54 and buckets of study I have built
up a body of knowledge which the average 10 year old does not possess. 
So I cut my coat to suit those children on that Facebook page.


Best, Richmond.


Monte

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Re: Infinite LiveCode - Message from CEO

[Monte Goulding]

I'm not overly fond of the direction this conversation is going. Us v them is 
unproductive and there are many benefits to the platform for going open source.

> AND, as to "complaining"; I often wonder where one draws the lines between 
> "complaints"
> positive criticism and negative criticism.

I would draw the line on complaints v positive criticism at whether it is a 
well written bug report. It's not hard to work out why it is less constructive 
to raise issues elsewhere. Negative criticism would be things like unnecessary 
negative statements about new versions of the platform on your Facebook page 
about learning it...

Monte

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Re: Defaults for groups

[RM]

Yes, this is a nuisance, on all versions of Livecode.

When I combine a background image that is, say, 128 by 128 pixels with 
various front images to do either an "import snapshot"
or an "export snapshot" (something I do on average about four times a 
day), I would love to end up with an image that is 128 by 128 pixels,

and not a bigger thing with a border of transparent pixels.

Richmond.

On 14.05.2016 07:18, Jerry Jensen wrote:

On May 13, 2016, at 8:12 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami  
wrote:

Am I the only one wishing that when we create a group the defaults should be no 
border, no border width assign and margins 0?

I’m with you on this.
.Jerry


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Re: Infinite LiveCode - Message from CEO

[RM]

On 14.05.2016 02:06, Bob Sneidar wrote:

On May 13, 2016, at 16:05 , Bob Sneidar  wrote:

Well you know, there are lies... and then there are damnable lies... and then 
there are detestably damnable lies...

And then there are statistics!

(roughly a quote of Mark Twain)


Who I just discovered got it from British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli.

Bob S


Benjamin Disraeli would know, being extremely good at dressing a wide 
variety of things

up as the truth, and playing both ends off against the middle.

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/3760

While seducing Queen Victoria (the Hanoverian incumbent) with his novels 
and parlour talk, he
was also in contact with King Victor (the Jacobite claimant) in Sardinia 
in case Victoria didn't

bend enough to his wishes.

While Mark Twain might have been a bit blunt, at least nobody could ever 
accuse him

of being a slithery sh*t.

Richmond.


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Re: SVG Widgets Work Well -- User Contributions - Screen Casts

[RM]

Just one small addendum to Brahmanathaswami's good posting.

On 14.05.2016 01:19, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:

SVG widget, despite limitations at the moment, is awesome making icons. No more PNG's 
that go "all bust up" if you resize them…



Go to iconfinder.com… download what you want as svg.



Note that there are cases where the svg is in several paths. So if you open in 
Illustrator, select all and make compound path, save and *then* use that in the 
SVG widget… it works.. even unexpectedly where you may have e.g. 3 dots that 
you would think must be independent paths…


Of course, those of us who don't have either the money to buy, or the 
lack of conscience to pirate Illustrator need to know that there are
an increasing number of alternatives to Illustrator that will not burn a 
hole in your pocket:


Inkscape:  https://inkscape.org/en/  Mac/Win/Lin

sk1: http://sk1project.org/   Win/Lin

Xara Xtreme: http://www.xaraxtreme.org/  Linux

Illustrator (and the rest of the Adobe family of products) version CS2 
are all available free of charge here: 
http://www.redmondpie.com/download-adobe-photoshop-cs2-for-free-legally-while-you-still-can/


Illustrator CS2 will do the "trick" that Brahmanathaswami explains; 
making a compound path. It also runs rather well on Linux under WINE.


Cheap-Jacks Ahoy!

Richmond.




My suggestion is that you might better expose that tip on making compound paths.



Which then leads my question on user contributions channels. Let's say we 
discover something useful that we feel is really buried in terms of what 
newbies would need and might be frustrated trying to find.



How does one best get that into the mix of documentatin/tutorials. Another useful channel 
I see is YouTube itself… lots of people posting things like "How to do this in 
Outlook"   3 minutes, max



But it is fragmented.



We do a lot of small tech screen casts internally and it would be trivioal for me or many others to start 
recording video and just do a "Up and Running with SVG Icon"   2 minutes, open stack, drag SVG icon 
out. Switch to browser, download SVG switch to illustrator, make compound path, open in Atom, copy and paste 
into Livecod… and verbalize the gotchas  like "if your path doesn't start with "m" then it 
wont' work… be sure to select between the quotes… you don't need all that code at the top. Etc."



So if one did make such a screen cast. Where would it go



We are not talking about issues/problems or work around, but just things that 
actually do work but which may be obscure.



BR



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Re: Infinite LiveCode - Message from CEO

[RM]

On 14.05.2016 00:17, J. Landman Gay wrote:

On 5/13/2016 2:02 PM, Paul Dupuis wrote:

My first gut reaction was "So, I and the other 24% minority of people
paying for licenses are funding an awesome development tool that some
76% of you folks out there are using for free. 


What follows does not consist of gut reactions.


People who only use
Community and grip should be sending the 24% of us who pay thank you 
cards!"


I had the same reaction. It is, to my mind, the height of chutzpah to 
complain about things one receives for free.


"Free" is a bit of a slithery word as it seems to mean quite a few 
different things.


I stumped up my "widow's mite" for the Kickstarter; had I had more funds 
I would have stumped up more.


So, whether I am receiving things for "Free" is a bit of a moot point 
[admittedly one that is a waste of time discussing].


I wish people would stop banging on about the word "Free" just because 
it is such a vague word.


AND, as to "complaining"; I often wonder where one draws the lines 
between "complaints", positive criticism and negative criticism.


The problem there is either "all in the mind" or "all in the mouth".

Paul Dupois wrote:


However, that gut reaction in no way takes into account the "gift in
kind" contributions of people using only the Community license in
(a) contributions to the source code
(b) time spend on submitting quality bug reports
(c) time spend on helping others with useful advice on the forums
or email lists, and
(d) many, many, other similar contributions of time.


I know many people who do at least three of these four items. ALL of
them, inclusive me, have at least an Indy license and are backing each
and every campaign.

Of course he is wrong in stating that ALL of them have at least an Indy 
licence.


I'm "guilty" of (b), (c) and a very small bit of (d) and the only 
licences I "own" (whatever that means in this context)
are a licence to DreamCard 2.6, one to Livecode Studio 4.0 and Livecode 
Enterprise 4.5 (and the last one was, very

generously given to me by Livecode).

I don't believe I'm the only one who owns no "contemporary" licences who 
submits bug reports, or helps people with

advice of varying levels of helpfulness on the forums or email lists.

That does NOT mean I feel I am entitled to either an Indy or a 
Full-Monty licence, as I am well aware that

Livecode DO need the money people pay for those licences.

It is a delusion to think that a contribution to a kickstarter 3 years 
ago is still funding current development.


I am not so daft as to think that money most of us stumped up for the 
Kickstarter is funding current development; and I very much doubt

if anybody else is that daft either.

The problem lies in this:

When people were offered the chance to stump up money for the 
Kickstarter they were presented a whole list of things (followed by a list
of "stretch goals") which they were assured would be financed by the 
Kickstarter, but have not been completed yet.


Now it might be that many of us who stumped up money for the Kickstarter 
are/were naive in believing that those things would be financed by the 
Kickstarter,


it might be that Livecode/RunRev were naive in thinking that those 
things would be financed by the Kickstarter.


There is, however, a difference between the consequences of the funders' 
naivety and Livecode/RunRev's naivety: in the latter case
there should be some sort of apology, instead we are faced with further 
requests/demands for money.


Now if one promises goods and/or services for money and does not deliver 
it might be a bit naive (oops, there's that word again) to expect those
people who stumped up money for things that were then not delivered as 
promised to stump up further funds.




The team needs a steady source of income to continue development into 
the future. 


I wouldn't doubt it for a moment.

But as it has undertaken to deliver  for  and hasn't, it may 
have to consider raising funds in a completely different way than going 
back,

cap-in-hand, to the initial funders.

If only 1/4 of the user base is paying for that then development will 
slow or founder. I am amazed and grateful for the work the team has 
done on such slim resources provided by only a fraction of the user base. 


It may be instructive to have a look at how companies such as Canonical 
(the company behind Ubuntu) finances itself: there maybe the odd
donation here and there, but their main sources of income are from other 
places and means.



They should be receiving accolades.



Indeed, I believe they would be receiving far more accolades if they 
were not releasing things they termed "Stable" which still contained

quite important bugs.

Livecode/RunRev should stop feeling pressure (if they do) to release GM 
versions. I really don't see what would have been wrong with
Livecode 8.0 going through 50 developer previews if that is what it took 
to get a really smashing release that attracted