date:20160524


Well, Kevin Miller is not Steve Jobs.

R.

On 24.05.2016 22:16, J. Landman Gay wrote:
The last time I led a revolt, Steve Jobs wrote me a terse email and 
shut down HC.


But I can submit a bug report.


On 5/24/2016 1:10 PM, RM wrote:

Well, Jacque, do you want to lead a revolt (not quite sure if that's the
correct word) to bring back
the Application Browser as something that hasn't been EOL-ed and packed
off into the Plug-ins
folder to keep people like Thee and me 'happy'?

Richmond.

On 24.05.2016 21:05, J. Landman Gay wrote:

On May 24, 2016, at 9:28 AM, RM  wrote:


It isn't my cup of tea either.

But for those of us who don't like it, the Application Browser is
"still there",
but, I assume, it is frozen, and in time may prove a bit "lumpy" with
new
versions of Livecode.


It's getting lumpier with 8.0.1rc1. Double-clicking an object no
longer opens the property inspector (prefs are set correctly,) and
selecting an object on the card no longer updates the selection in the
app browser.




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Re: Ho to pay pledge


On 05/24/2016 06:32 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

On 5/24/2016 8:08 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:

On 05/24/2016 04:21 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

I received an email with a customized link. In fact, I got three of
them. Maybe one was yours...


I also got three of them, and none of them work.



I had to do it in Safari, at least on Mac. My copy of Thunderbird is so
locked down it wouldn't let the scripts run.



Ah. I guess they don't need money from us linux users.

On a related note, it appears the whole web site has been dumbed down 
yet another notch to the point where I can no longer find anything.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: Infinite LiveCode -- What Happened Exactly?

2016-05-24 Thread Paul Hibbert

Check out the ‘Campaign Update’ here;

https://livecode.com/project/infinite-livecode/

The Native Field Widget has been rolled over to a Feature Exchange…

https://livecode.com/project/infinite-livecode-native-field-object/

29 days to raise just over $4,000 - should be do-able.

Paul


> On May 24, 2016, at 8:28 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami  
> wrote:
> 
> I doubled my initial pledge and then stood by waiting.
> 
> Then I got the notice it was due… that the goal had been met.. the page I was 
> taken to successfully charged my CC card.
> 
> But… did we get the field widget or not?
> 
> I was hoping for that, but not in a position to up my pledge again.
> 
> BR
> 
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Infinite LiveCode -- What Happened Exactly?

I doubled my initial pledge and then stood by waiting.

Then I got the notice it was due… that the goal had been met.. the page I was 
taken to successfully charged my CC card.

But… did we get the field widget or not?

I was hoping for that, but not in a position to up my pledge again.

BR

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Re: Definite Bug

Confirmed here in OS X

Re-layering groups is really "scary" at the moment. It's such a challenge that 
the only way I'm able to successfully move a group is to look up the layers of 
all objects/groups in the application browser (aka 
"revolutionApplicationOverview") and then manually set the layer of the group 
(via msg box) to a number that is either above or below  in between of any 
other group.. even then it doesn't always work as I hope…  

Definitely needs work… 

Dragging up and down in the PB also yields odd results.

On 5/24/16, 1:27 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Bob Sneidar" 
 wrote:

>Hi all. 
>
>I have confirmed several times that when attempting to move a group's layer by 
>using cmd-square brackets it actually embeds the group I am moving into the 
>previous or following group! I will submit a bug report, but everyone should 
>be aware of this so they do not completely jack up their layering. 
>
>Bob S

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Re: Maybe found another bug in 8


On 5/24/2016 6:58 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote:

I can no lonegr select the text of a menu button. I would tell you
what kind of menu button it is but the inspector no longer seems to
tell me that.


I see the button type in the titlebar on Mac.


The select command according to the dictionary now only
works on pictures, not text. That is a BIG deal.


This is what I see in the dictionary when choosing the select command:

select [before | after] {text | chunk} of field
select empty
select objectList

I don't see a reference to images, outside of it being something that 
could be in an objectList.


I do think the new dictionary makes this stuff hard to locate though. 
Typing "select" into the search field shows the line referring to field 
text but you actually have to click on it to see the rest of the syntax 
options. Just scanning the hit list wouldn't give you the idea there was 
more to it.



Several of my menus
work this way. As the user types, I filter down the menu options that
begin with what the user has already typed, so that he can type 2 or
3 characters and the list will be a few items long instead of the
original several hundred.


Have you tried the menuhistory? That's the recommended way to set a menu 
selection. Get a line offset of the user's text and set the menuhistory 
to that number.


That said, I just tried selecting the text of an option menu and it 
works as expected here. You've seen a few other anomalies today, it 
sounds like something is interfering with normal operation.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Ho to pay pledge


On 5/24/2016 8:08 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:

On 05/24/2016 04:21 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

I received an email with a customized link. In fact, I got three of
them. Maybe one was yours...


I also got three of them, and none of them work.



I had to do it in Safari, at least on Mac. My copy of Thunderbird is so 
locked down it wouldn't let the scripts run.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Ho to pay pledge


On 05/24/2016 04:21 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

I received an email with a customized link. In fact, I got three of
them. Maybe one was yours...


I also got three of them, and none of them work.

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: Confusion over builds.

Hi Richmond,
Sorry about the confusion, Peter was very quick to remove the entries I had 
referred to.

As for leaving things, you are a bit confused. The versions I referred to were 
in fact "milestones" on GitHub. I was making no comment at all on the download 
page only the  work in progress pages of GitHub.

However Peter's post offered a complete picture of how they are trying to 
manage these items and clarified, somewhat, my concerns and questions.

James

> I honestly don't know what you are talking about. Here:
> 
> http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/
> 
> I can see 8.0.1 STABLE  and 8.1.0 RC1
> 
> So, there is no "8.0.2" and no "8.10"
> 
> Over in GitHub things are, by the nature of GitHub, likely to be 
> somewhat more confusing.
> 
> This is one of the main reasons when I want to find out the way the 
> numbering of Livecode
> releases is going I stick to the download page.
> 
> Certainly, I can see that one could, carelessly, mistake "8.1.0" for 
> "8.10", but, then, things are always
> worth a second look.
> 
> "start with removing those builds that are actually released"
> 
> No, let's NOT, and let's use them as the road-map, and not the others: 
> otherwise we'd still all
> be sitting around waiting for Hypercard 3.0.

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Maybe found another bug in 8

I can no lonegr select the text of a menu button. I would tell you what kind of 
menu button it is but the inspector no longer seems to tell me that. The select 
command according to the dictionary now only works on pictures, not text. That 
is a BIG deal. Several of my menus work this way. As the user types, I filter 
down the menu options that begin with what the user has already typed, so that 
he can type 2 or 3 characters and the list will be a few items long instead of 
the original several hundred. 

Since setting the text of a menu button *ALSO* sets the label to the first 
line, I have to select the character after the last one typed to the end of 
what is now the label, so that the user progressively replaces that selection 
with what he types next. 

Seems complicated, but just think how web browsers try to fill in the rest of 
what you typed with search suggestions, and that is exactly the effect I 
created. Works in 6.7 does NOT work in 8. 

Bob S



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Re: Project Browser

2016-05-24 Thread stephen barncard

On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 12:16 PM, J. Landman Gay 
wrote:

> The last time I led a revolt, Steve Jobs wrote me a terse email and shut
> down HC.
>

so YOU were the one!

Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
mixstream.org
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Re: Project Browser

J. Landman Gay  writes:

> 
> You're welcome. I had no idea I was such a powerful influence on The Steve.

Now if you just had that influence over The Kevin...

-- 
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com




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Definite Bug

Hi all. 

I have confirmed several times that when attempting to move a group's layer by 
using cmd-square brackets it actually embeds the group I am moving into the 
previous or following group! I will submit a bug report, but everyone should be 
aware of this so they do not completely jack up their layering. 

Bob S
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Re: MetaCard compatibility patterns

Paul Dupuis  writes:

> 
> On 5/24/2016 6:54 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:
> > Would this break anything that anybody relies on? Does anyone use the actual
> > brush image ids? Or care what the actual brush *numbers* are?
> 
> I don't believe I have anything that uses brush numbers or IDs, but I
> did want to comment on the problem with breaking backward compatibility.

Yes, thanks, exactly why I'm bringing this up.
To that point: the brush ids are only available in the IDE, not in standalones.
Within the IDE, I'd like to suggest using the actual values assigned rather
than the remapped values, which you can't access by script anyway.
Setting and querying the brush, eraser and spray values should not change.

-- 
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: Ho to pay pledge

I received an email with a customized link. In fact, I got three of them. 
Maybe one was yours...


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com



On May 24, 2016 6:13:51 PM Bob Sneidar  wrote:

Not sure how to pay up at this point. Anyone got a URL? I thot I had it in 
my history but the infinite livecode page does not seem to offer me a way 
to pay.


Bob S



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Re: MetaCard compatibility patterns

Monte Goulding  writes:

> Just having it work as documented is all I’m after at the moment.
Changing the behavior completely
> probably needs more time to consider ramifications than we can assign to it.

Yeah, that's why I'm bringing it up for discussion now.
And why I didn't implement these changes in my PR.

I don't *think* there are any repercussions, since the id remapping happens
behind the scenes at the engine level, and the fact that the algorithm that
does the mapping has always been faulty would add to this reasoning. But in
any event, I wanted to bring this up publicly just in case.

-- 
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com
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Re: Project Browser


You're welcome. I had no idea I was such a powerful influence on The Steve.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com



On May 24, 2016 4:11:22 PM "Peter M. Brigham"  wrote:


On May 24, 2016, at 3:16 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

The last time I led a revolt, Steve Jobs wrote me a terse email and shut 
down HC.


My first impulse for a reply was "OMG, so YOU were responsible for the 
death of Hypercard!?" Then I thought, but look what we have now -- 
LiveCode. So… thanks!:-)


-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com


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Re: MetaCard compatibility patterns

2016-05-24 Thread Paul Dupuis

On 5/24/2016 6:54 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:
> Would this break anything that anybody relies on? Does anyone use the actual
> brush image ids? Or care what the actual brush *numbers* are?

I don't believe I have anything that uses brush numbers or IDs, but I
did want to comment on the problem with breaking backward compatibility.

There is an enormous volume of xTalk stacks out there with some people
using them who may have little or even no familiarity with the xTalk
scripts themselves. They may have inherited the stack from someone else
who wrote the code or perhaps even a  number of someone elses.

People may be out there running stacks who rely of the number or the id
or both who do not subscribe to this email list. I'm not arguing for not
making changes or for making changes, just commenting that there is a
large invisible community associated with xTalk. Perhaps evidenced by
that 3/4 of all LiveCode licenses are free  community editions, you just
don't know who'd doing what with it.

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Ho to pay pledge

Not sure how to pay up at this point. Anyone got a URL? I thot I had it in my 
history but the infinite livecode page does not seem to offer me a way to pay. 

Bob S



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Re: MetaCard compatibility patterns

2016-05-24 Thread Monte Goulding

> On 25 May 2016, at 8:54 AM, Mark Wieder  wrote:
> 
> Now... since this process is (or at least has been) fairly transparent to the
> end user (does anyone actually rely on a brush of 8 being image id 108?) I'd
> rather do one of two things (or both):
> 
> 1. assign the brush to the actual image id instead of the index
> 2. reassign ids to the brush images so that the correspond and no mapping is
> involved.
> 
> Would this break anything that anybody relies on? Does anyone use the actual
> brush image ids? Or care what the actual brush *numbers* are?

Just having it work as documented is all I’m after at the moment. Changing the 
behavior completely probably needs more time to consider ramifications than we 
can assign to it. In fact I’ve already put in more time on this than I should 
have I think! I’ll put in some extra hours this week to make up for it. 
Actually I’m not meant to be working now so it’s all good ;-)

Cheers

Monte
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Re: Project Browser

Those were exactly my thoughts too! LOL!

Bob S


> On May 24, 2016, at 14:09 , Peter M. Brigham  wrote:
> 
> On May 24, 2016, at 3:16 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> 
>> The last time I led a revolt, Steve Jobs wrote me a terse email and shut 
>> down HC.
> 
> My first impulse for a reply was "OMG, so YOU were responsible for the death 
> of Hypercard!?" Then I thought, but look what we have now -- LiveCode. So… 
> thanks!:-)
> 
> -- Peter
> 
> Peter M. Brigham
> pmb...@gmail.com
> 
> 
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Re: Project Browser

Thanks so much that is what I am looking for! 

Bob S


> On May 24, 2016, at 07:55 , Ben Rubinstein  wrote:
> 
> On 24/05/2016 15:44, Bob Sneidar wrote:
>> Did someone say there was a way to get the application browser back? The 
>> project browser in it's current form is a bit unusable. A couple times I 
>> attempted to drag-reorder the objects, and instead only succeeded at putting 
>> one object into another group. I changed the sort order to number and the 
>> window went blank. Yeah. No. Not usable.
> 
> 
> 
> In the meantime, you can access the Application Overview under 
> Development/Plugins/revApplicationOverview.
> 


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Re: MetaCard compatibility patterns

Monte Goulding  writes:

> As a result of some contributions Mark Wieder is making to fix some issues
with reset paint I have identified
> some issues with setting patterns to a patternNumber (rather than image id).
These are documented as
> patternNumber 1 to 164 being translated by the engine to image id 136 to 300.
It turns out we don’t have the
> full set in the IDE. I’m not sure how to get hold of MetaCard these days but
I’m pretty sure there’s
> some people here that do so what I’d like to know is does it contain all
image IDs 136 to 300?

Some thoughts on this:

The whole remapping thing is weird, and it may be time to rethink this.
The way things have always worked is that setting a brush, spray, or eraser)
assigns a number that is an index into the list of 35 built-in brushes. So
setting the brush to 8 actually points to image id 108 for the brush, even
though querying for the brush does indeed return 8.

Currently
id 1..135 -> id + 100

Soon (with the fix I'm implementing)
id 1..35 -> id + 100
id 36.. -> no change

Now... since this process is (or at least has been) fairly transparent to the
end user (does anyone actually rely on a brush of 8 being image id 108?) I'd
rather do one of two things (or both):

1. assign the brush to the actual image id instead of the index
2. reassign ids to the brush images so that the correspond and no mapping is
involved.

Would this break anything that anybody relies on? Does anyone use the actual
brush image ids? Or care what the actual brush *numbers* are?

And the same, of course, would apply to pattern mapping.

-- 
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com
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Re: MetaCard compatability patterns

2016-05-24 Thread Monte Goulding

OK, thanks to Klaus I can confirm that MetaCard had the same missing pattern 
numbers/ image ids that LiveCode does. Specifically these are image id 241 to 
250 and 282 to 300. Additionally based on the content of the “patterns” stack I 
can conclude that the pattern numbers should range 0 to 164 with 0 being image 
id 137 which is just plain white. I’m concluding this because it’s named pat0. 
Does anyone think that’s wrong? It could be that Scott just 0 indexed the names 
of them though so pattern 1 should be image id 137 which also makes perfect 
sense. If that’s the case then I’d suggest that setting a pattern to 0 should 
be equivalent to setting it to empty which at the moment it’s not quite.

Cheers

Monte
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Re: Handling Top Status Bar in App Design Stage

Ralph.. very helpful.. yes I don't want to maintain two files either.

Can you share a code snippet from your preopencard handler(s)

What does that 1px transparent line accomplish?  does this act as a bounding 
object that Livecode sees as the top of the stack?  and if you did not have it… 
what would happen?

Thank you!

BR


On 5/23/16, 3:52 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Ralph DiMola" 
 
wrote:

>I resize to the bottom of a 1 px transparent graphic line the full width of 
>the screen that I place in the appropriate place based on the reported device 
>geometry. In the IDE and on Android it's at y=-1, on iOS it's... well I don’t 
>know or care, LC tells be where it should go. Then I place all objects below 
>that line.
>
>PS: 2 files would make my head explode.
>
>Ralph DiMola

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Custom URL - urlWakeUp

This mysterious entry in the dictionary comes with no examples.  It's cousin

mobileGetLaunchURL

is also related.

I searched for both of these terms and also "Custom URL Scheme"  in the User 
Guide and came with "No Entries Found" in the PDF.

The Custom URL Scheme is a blank field in the StandAlone settings.

Can anyone point me to deeper documentation?

and/or examples


1)What is a sample "URL Name" that you might put into the "Custom URL 
Scheme"

2)What does a custom URL that one app might use to awaken (and pass a param 
to) another app look like?

3)Is the idea that one could have a small eco-system of different apps that 
related to each other, be separate standalones on the device and then one could 
invoke the other? and even go to a specific card in the other? (assuming the 
"other" app traps urlWakeUp pSomeParam and does what you want,)

4)what does a script look like that uses it (in app A that invokes app B)
??



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Re: Project Browser

2016-05-24 Thread Peter M. Brigham

On May 24, 2016, at 3:16 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> The last time I led a revolt, Steve Jobs wrote me a terse email and shut down 
> HC.

My first impulse for a reply was "OMG, so YOU were responsible for the death of 
Hypercard!?" Then I thought, but look what we have now -- LiveCode. So… thanks! 
   :-)

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com

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Re: MetaCard compatibility patterns

2016-05-24 Thread Klaus major-k

Hi Monte,

> Am 24.05.2016 um 22:31 schrieb Monte Goulding :
> 
> Hi All
> 
> As a result of some contributions Mark Wieder is making to fix some issues 
> with reset paint I have identified some issues with setting patterns to a 
> patternNumber (rather than image id). These are documented as patternNumber 1 
> to 164 being translated by the engine to image id 136 to 300. It turns out we 
> don’t have the full set in the IDE. I’m not sure how to get hold of MetaCard 
> these days but I’m pretty sure there’s some people here that do so what I’d 
> like to know is does it contain all image IDs 136 to 300?

yes.

> Here’s some bug numbers that would be good to kill:
> http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8212
> http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17720
> 
> Here’s where I’m working on it:
> https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/4060
> 
> At the moment my changes still need some work because I believe they still 
> incorrectly map pattern 1-> image id 137 instead of 136 so I believe the 
> documented range should be 136 to 299 but it would be good to know what the 
> range was in MetaCard to confirm.
> 
> Thanks for your help!

I could send you the „mctools.mc“ stack, which contains everything from the MC 
IDE!
Just drop a line.

> Cheers
> 
> Monte

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
http://www.major-k.de
kl...@major-k.de


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Re: Positive Infinity forever

2016-05-24 Thread Mick Collins

Oh, no, Bob, it is also certain that a genooine understanding of trig, 
calculus, counting numbers, engineering and computer science will require a 
foundational knowledge of infinity, for example, why 1+2+3+4+ ...  =   -1/12
;-)  
Hardy saw this in the notes of Ramanujan (“The Man Who Knew Infinity” book and 
movie) and was convinced from this and other things that he was not a quack, 
but a genius. This and other wacky equations are used in physics (theoretical 
abstract?)

Besides, "forever" is longer than a very long time.

Bob S wrote:
> The only thing that is certain about infinity is that it will remain a 
> theoretical abstract forever. ;-)

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MetaCard compatibility patterns

2016-05-24 Thread Monte Goulding

Hi All

As a result of some contributions Mark Wieder is making to fix some issues with 
reset paint I have identified some issues with setting patterns to a 
patternNumber (rather than image id). These are documented as patternNumber 1 
to 164 being translated by the engine to image id 136 to 300. It turns out we 
don’t have the full set in the IDE. I’m not sure how to get hold of MetaCard 
these days but I’m pretty sure there’s some people here that do so what I’d 
like to know is does it contain all image IDs 136 to 300?

Here’s some bug numbers that would be good to kill:
http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8212
http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17720

Here’s where I’m working on it:
https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/4060

At the moment my changes still need some work because I believe they still 
incorrectly map pattern 1-> image id 137 instead of 136 so I believe the 
documented range should be 136 to 299 but it would be good to know what the 
range was in MetaCard to confirm.

Thanks for your help!

Cheers

Monte
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Subject: Re: Infinite Livecode Pledge

2016-05-24 Thread Mark Rauterkus

Hi,

With Kickstarter, the income from the crowdsource efforts are considered
sales incomes as there often are real benefits and products being traded
with the various transactions.

Make a donation of sorts and get a new prototype thingie, even if it is
only a promise of a thingie yet to be built in the weeks and months to come
-- well -- that is sales.

The nonprofit donations that are tax exempt are different in that there are
not any return benefits.

If you donate money to a foundation, you might get a thank you card,
nothing else.

I am not a tax expert. But I do work with a few nonprofit organizations.

I'm happy to see the new funds generated. The made stretch goals are
significant to many. That third one was less exciting, to me, and perhaps
others. Furthermore, I'm thrilled with the new pledge for tech ties to
WordPress. That is going to be HUGE. Woo! Woo $. (pun intended)




--
Ta.


Mark Rauterkus   m...@rauterkus.com
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Re: Project Browser

The last time I led a revolt, Steve Jobs wrote me a terse email and shut 
down HC.


But I can submit a bug report.


On 5/24/2016 1:10 PM, RM wrote:

Well, Jacque, do you want to lead a revolt (not quite sure if that's the
correct word) to bring back
the Application Browser as something that hasn't been EOL-ed and packed
off into the Plug-ins
folder to keep people like Thee and me 'happy'?

Richmond.

On 24.05.2016 21:05, J. Landman Gay wrote:

On May 24, 2016, at 9:28 AM, RM  wrote:


It isn't my cup of tea either.

But for those of us who don't like it, the Application Browser is
"still there",
but, I assume, it is frozen, and in time may prove a bit "lumpy" with
new
versions of Livecode.


It's getting lumpier with 8.0.1rc1. Double-clicking an object no
longer opens the property inspector (prefs are set correctly,) and
selecting an object on the card no longer updates the selection in the
app browser.




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--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Project Browser

Well, Jacque, do you want to lead a revolt (not quite sure if that's the 
correct word) to bring back
the Application Browser as something that hasn't been EOL-ed and packed 
off into the Plug-ins

folder to keep people like Thee and me 'happy'?

Richmond.

On 24.05.2016 21:05, J. Landman Gay wrote:

On May 24, 2016, at 9:28 AM, RM  wrote:


It isn't my cup of tea either.

But for those of us who don't like it, the Application Browser is 
"still there",
but, I assume, it is frozen, and in time may prove a bit "lumpy" with 
new

versions of Livecode.


It's getting lumpier with 8.0.1rc1. Double-clicking an object no 
longer opens the property inspector (prefs are set correctly,) and 
selecting an object on the card no longer updates the selection in the 
app browser.





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Re: Project Browser


On May 24, 2016, at 9:28 AM, RM  wrote:


It isn't my cup of tea either.

But for those of us who don't like it, the Application Browser is "still there",
but, I assume, it is frozen, and in time may prove a bit "lumpy" with new
versions of Livecode.


It's getting lumpier with 8.0.1rc1. Double-clicking an object no longer 
opens the property inspector (prefs are set correctly,) and selecting an 
object on the card no longer updates the selection in the app browser.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Suspense

2016-05-24 Thread Richard Gaskin


Mark Smith wrote:

> A big congratulations to all of us. It was hard fought, and we did
> not go over the top but we still made huge gains. I am most
> definitely looking forward to all the new goodies, not least of
> which are the documented and "worked" examples we can all learn from.
>
> Very grateful for all who contributed. Well done!!!

And a big "Thank you!" is owed to you for your efforts in promoting this 
campaign and offering to up your investment as incentive for others. 
Much appreciated.  Good stuff coming.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Infinite Livecode Pledge

2016-05-24 Thread Richard Gaskin


Mike Kerner wrote:

> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 9:57 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>> It doesn't seem much different from how it works in the States -
>> from the Kickstarter tax guide:
>>
>>In general, in the US, funds raised on Kickstarter are considered
>>income.
>>...
>>Sales tax may also be applicable in certain cases depending on the
>>local rules. In general, sales tax applies only if the creator has
>>sufficient connection to the location of the backer.
>>
>> 
>>
>> --
> It is completely different. VAT comes off the top line, like an excise
> tax. Income tax comes off the bottom line. Therefore, if a firm is
> plowing funds into development, it can be at or below 0 on the bottom
> line, therefore the tax on the funds would be zero, and depending on
> its previous history, there may even be a federal rebate. Sales tax
> doesn't apply in a case like this because you aren't getting a LC
> t-shirt, playing cards, phone sleeve, etc. Then there is the
> difference between S-corps and C-corps, and their bases and rates,
> which would further depress the tax on the take.

It's true that rates and policies differ by jurisdiction.

My only point is that evidently most jurisdictions consider income from 
Kickstarter and other crowdfunding options as taxable revenue.


If you have any luck getting any of them to change that let us know how 
it works out.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com


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Re: Project Browser

2016-05-24 Thread Earthednet-wp

Project browser issues have also kept me from using v8 for development. It has 
been especially frustrating when trying to reorder objects on cards with groups.
Bill

William Prothero
http://es.earthednet.org

> On May 24, 2016, at 9:28 AM, RM  wrote:
> 
> It isn't my cup of tea either.
> 
> But for those of us who don't like it, the Application Browser is "still 
> there",
> but, I assume, it is frozen, and in time may prove a bit "lumpy" with new
> versions of Livecode.
> 
> But by then, either the Project Browser will be better (and/or more like the 
> Application Browser),
> or . . . .
> 
> Richmond.
> 
>> On 24.05.2016 17:55, Ben Rubinstein wrote:
>>> On 24/05/2016 15:44, Bob Sneidar wrote:
>>> Did someone say there was a way to get the application browser back? The 
>>> project browser in it's current form is a bit unusable. A couple times I 
>>> attempted to drag-reorder the objects, and instead only succeeded at 
>>> putting one object into another group. I changed the sort order to number 
>>> and the window went blank. Yeah. No. Not usable.
>> 
>> I guiltily confess to not having used 8 in anger until now; at which point I 
>> have started collecting Project Browser issues. (Actually, just yesterday!)
>> 
>> On going to Bugzilla to think about how to report them, I see that there are 
>> many existing reports:
>> 
>> http://quality.livecode.com/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced_desc=project%20browser_desc_type=substring
>>  
>> 
>> (of which more than half resolved, and most of the others confirmed).  I 
>> confess I've not yet found the time to work through my list to see if 
>> there's anything not yet covered.
>> 
>> So I think we can expect progress!
>> 
>> In the meantime, you can access the Application Overview under 
>> Development/Plugins/revApplicationOverview.
>> 
>> But I'm trying to persevere with using PB as much as possible, in the hope 
>> of helping to track down the bugs...
>> 
>> Ben
>> 
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Re: Infinite Livecode Pledge

2016-05-24 Thread Roger Eller

On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 11:32 AM, Peter TB Brett 
wrote:

> On 24/05/2016 16:19, Lagi Pittas wrote:
>
> We don't have any statistics from LC to see how many people are on
>> subscription and how many actively use the product for free which would
>> help.
>>
>
> Approximately 75% of LiveCode users are using the open source edition and
> do not have an active subscription.
>
> Without counting bug reporting [1], approximately 98% of the changes to
> the LiveCode engine and IDE are made by the core dev team, and most of this
> work is funded by subscriptions.  Almost all of those changes go directly
> into the open source edition.
>
>Peter
>
> [1] Some of our open source edition users are very diligent about
> carefully testing LiveCode and filing extremely high-quality bug reports.
>
> --
> Dr Peter Brett 
> LiveCode Open Source Team
>
> LiveCode 2016 Conference: https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/
>

At least 1 user of LC Indy, maybe 2, cannot use LC 8.0 on Windows 7 because
when it launches, it cannot access several databases including its own
documentation.

~Roger
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Re: MouseDown no longer sent to list fields??

2016-05-24 Thread Mike Bonner

Try it with messages toggled off. I had a weird instance where my "select
grouped" toggle got stuck in reverse mode.  Select group was on, couldn't
select controls, off, I could.  Maybe your toggle is horked too.

On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 9:05 AM, John Dixon  wrote:

> Bob...
>
> Just tried this in a scrolling list field.. it works
>
> on mousedown
>
>  answer word 2 of the clickLine
>
> end mousedown
>
>
> > From: bobsnei...@iotecdigital.com
> > To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Subject: Re: MouseDown no longer sent to list fields??
> > Date: Tue, 24 May 2016 15:02:04 +
> >
> > Belay my last. Seems NO messages are being sent right now. NOTHING is
> working. I toggled supress messages, but to no avail.
> >
> > Bob S
> >
> >
> > > On May 24, 2016, at 07:59 , Bob Sneidar 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > This used to work in a text field with it's listBehavior set to true.
> No longer:
> > >
> > > on mouseDown
> > >  put the clickLine into theClickedLine
> > >  put value(theClickedLine) into theSalesPerson
> > >  put theSalesPerson into field "fldSalesPerson"
> > >  hide me
> > >  show group "grpCustContact"
> > > end mouseDown
> > >
> > > Now the field never sees the mouseDown message. So how do I tell if a
> user has clicked an item in the list? SelectionChanged is not sent to the
> object either! If this is not intended behavior, I will submit a bug, but
> this is how I do list selections in all of my projects.
> > >
> > > Bob S
> >
> >
> > ___
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Windows registry functions

2016-05-24 Thread Paul Dupuis

In working in LC 6.7.11 under Windows 8.1 today, I discovered that  the
setRegistry function would not make a new key in the registry. It turned
out that was because for the function to work, the application
(LiveCode/IDE or a Standalone) must Run as Administrator, so restarting
LiveCode 6.7.11 running with admin privs let me continue developing in
the IDE.

My question to the community and any LiveCode folks on the list who may
know is:

Is there a way in a script to temporarily set Admin privs under Windows
to then set a registry entry via SetRegistry and the unset admin privs?

OR is the only way to set a registry entry is by going to Standalone
Application Settings... > Windows > UAC Execution Level and setting it
from "Default" to "Require Administrator" for a standalone OR running
LiveCode as Admin for testing setRegistry code in the IDE?

I really hope there is some trick that allows the former, rather than
the latter being the only options.

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Re: Confusion over builds.

Thanks for the explanation Peter.

James

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Re: Infinite Livecode Pledge

2016-05-24 Thread [-hh]

Peter TB Brett wrote
> On 24/05/2016 16:19, Lagi Pittas wrote:
> 
>> We don't have any statistics from LC to see how many people are on
>> subscription and how many actively use the product for free which would
>> help.
> 
> Approximately 75% of LiveCode users are using the open source edition 
> and do not have an active subscription.

Peter,
how do you estimate the number of LiveCode users?
Or do you mean the number of *registered* LiveCode users?



--
View this message in context: 
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Re: Project Browser

It isn't my cup of tea either.

But for those of us who don't like it, the Application Browser is "still
there",

but, I assume, it is frozen, and in time may prove a bit "lumpy" with new
versions of Livecode.

But by then, either the Project Browser will be better (and/or more like
the Application Browser),

or . . . .

Richmond.

On 24.05.2016 17:55, Ben Rubinstein wrote:

On 24/05/2016 15:44, Bob Sneidar wrote:
Did someone say there was a way to get the application browser back?
The project browser in it's current form is a bit unusable. A couple
times I attempted to drag-reorder the objects, and instead only
succeeded at putting one object into another group. I changed the
sort order to number and the window went blank. Yeah. No. Not usable.

I guiltily confess to not having used 8 in anger until now; at which
point I have started collecting Project Browser issues. (Actually,
just yesterday!)

On going to Bugzilla to think about how to report them, I see that
there are many existing reports:

http://quality.livecode.com/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced_desc=project%20browser_desc_type=substring

(of which more than half resolved, and most of the others confirmed).
I confess I've not yet found the time to work through my list to see
if there's anything not yet covered.

So I think we can expect progress!

In the meantime, you can access the Application Overview under
Development/Plugins/revApplicationOverview.

But I'm trying to persevere with using PB as much as possible, in the
hope of helping to track down the bugs...

Ben

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Re: Confusion over builds.


I honestly don't know what you are talking about. Here:

http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/

I can see 8.0.1 STABLE  and 8.1.0 RC1

So, there is no "8.0.2" and no "8.10"

Over in GitHub things are, by the nature of GitHub, likely to be 
somewhat more confusing.


This is one of the main reasons when I want to find out the way the 
numbering of Livecode

releases is going I stick to the download page.

Certainly, I can see that one could, carelessly, mistake "8.1.0" for 
"8.10", but, then, things are always

worth a second look.

"start with removing those builds that are actually released"

No, let's NOT, and let's use them as the road-map, and not the others: 
otherwise we'd still all

be sitting around waiting for Hypercard 3.0.

My computers (that means about 4 of the things) and my external 
hard-disks are littered with
oddly numbered versions of my Devawriter Pro; some of them did lead to 
releases; most of them
are where I went off on some "very clever tangent" which turned out to 
be a big mistake.


I would suppose most people have similar situations, unless, unlike me, 
they have the self-discipline
to purge their systems of all those "also rans". This is a bit like 
evolution; the man with teeth in his bottom
died out (right organ, wrong end of the body); or, if you are a 
creationist; please do not tell me that God
didn't fool around with ideas that seemed extremely good on day 4, but 
looked pretty awful on the morning of day 5.

After all, we are, supposedly, made in his own image :-)

GitHub is the land of possibilities; and 'tis a marvellous place; but 
not for the nervous.


Richmond.

On 24.05.2016 17:24, James Hale wrote:

Now that 8 is out,things on GitHub should be simpler, right?
No, not really.
We still have 8.01rc1 sitting there.
We have 802rc1 sitting there.
8.10dp1 AND 8.10dp2 AND 8.10 future?

While I really like the action happening I wish we could collapse things a bit 
and get the different branches consistent.
For instance let's start with removing those builds that are actually released.

That would leave us with 8.02rc1, 8.1dp2 and 8.10 future (whatever this is 
supposed to mean).

Then could be get some guidance as to whether 8.1 contains the fixes in 8.02 or 
not.
In other words, if 8.02 fixes something we wanted fixed but we also want to 
test against 8.1, can we count on not having worry about a missing fix?

Which gets me to my main hope. Could we perhaps release the rc' a bit more 
frequently? I mean there was only one rc for 8.01 and now we are already almost 
up to 8.02rc1 but before it was released we get an 8.1dp1.
Can't you move the unfinished bits of 8.02rc1 into a future 8.02rc2 and get 
8.02rc1 out?
Will there be an 8.02rc2 or will you jump to 8.03rc1? Sort makes the 'rc' 
labels superfluous.

James

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[ ANN ] Release 8.0.1

2016-05-24 Thread panagiotis merakos

Dear List Members,

We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.0.1 Stable. By
"Stable", we mean that no reported regressions have been introduced in
8.0.1, compared to the previous Stable release.

LiveCode 8.0.1 is a promotion of 8.0.1 RC-1, so there is no change between
the two versions, but the build number and the status.

*Getting the Release*
You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or via
the automatic updater.

*Feedback*
Please report any bugs encountered on our Bugzilla at
http://quality.livecode.com/


Warmest regards,
The LiveCode Team
--
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Re: Infinite Livecode Pledge

2016-05-24 Thread Peter TB Brett


On 24/05/2016 16:19, Lagi Pittas wrote:


We don't have any statistics from LC to see how many people are on
subscription and how many actively use the product for free which would
help.


Approximately 75% of LiveCode users are using the open source edition 
and do not have an active subscription.


Without counting bug reporting [1], approximately 98% of the changes to 
the LiveCode engine and IDE are made by the core dev team, and most of 
this work is funded by subscriptions.  Almost all of those changes go 
directly into the open source edition.


   Peter

[1] Some of our open source edition users are very diligent about 
carefully testing LiveCode and filing extremely high-quality bug reports.


--
Dr Peter Brett 
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference: https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/

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RE: MouseDown no longer sent to list fields??

2016-05-24 Thread John Dixon

Bob...

Just tried this in a scrolling list field.. it works

on mousedown

 answer word 2 of the clickLine

end mousedown


> From: bobsnei...@iotecdigital.com
> To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: MouseDown no longer sent to list fields??
> Date: Tue, 24 May 2016 15:02:04 +
> 
> Belay my last. Seems NO messages are being sent right now. NOTHING is 
> working. I toggled supress messages, but to no avail. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
> > On May 24, 2016, at 07:59 , Bob Sneidar  wrote:
> > 
> > This used to work in a text field with it's listBehavior set to true. No 
> > longer:
> > 
> > on mouseDown
> >  put the clickLine into theClickedLine
> >  put value(theClickedLine) into theSalesPerson
> >  put theSalesPerson into field "fldSalesPerson"
> >  hide me
> >  show group "grpCustContact"
> > end mouseDown
> > 
> > Now the field never sees the mouseDown message. So how do I tell if a user 
> > has clicked an item in the list? SelectionChanged is not sent to the object 
> > either! If this is not intended behavior, I will submit a bug, but this is 
> > how I do list selections in all of my projects. 
> > 
> > Bob S
> 
> 
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Re: MouseDown no longer sent to list fields??

Belay my last. Seems NO messages are being sent right now. NOTHING is working. 
I toggled supress messages, but to no avail. 

Bob S


> On May 24, 2016, at 07:59 , Bob Sneidar  wrote:
> 
> This used to work in a text field with it's listBehavior set to true. No 
> longer:
> 
> on mouseDown
>  put the clickLine into theClickedLine
>  put value(theClickedLine) into theSalesPerson
>  put theSalesPerson into field "fldSalesPerson"
>  hide me
>  show group "grpCustContact"
> end mouseDown
> 
> Now the field never sees the mouseDown message. So how do I tell if a user 
> has clicked an item in the list? SelectionChanged is not sent to the object 
> either! If this is not intended behavior, I will submit a bug, but this is 
> how I do list selections in all of my projects. 
> 
> Bob S


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Re: Confusion over builds.

2016-05-24 Thread Peter TB Brett


On 24/05/2016 15:24, James Hale wrote:

Now that 8 is out,things on GitHub should be simpler, right? No, not
really. We still have 8.01rc1 sitting there. We have 802rc1 sitting
there. 8.10dp1 AND 8.10dp2 AND 8.10 future?


It's just because I didn't close the milestones yet.  Consider the
milestones on GitHub to be informative, rather than normative.

At the moment, the next release in the stable branch of LiveCode (i.e.
8.0.x) will be 8.0.1.  Then, after that, the next stable release will be 
8.0.2-rc-1.


There is no 8.0.1 milestone in GitHub because no-one has found any 
regressions in 8.0.1-rc-1 relative to the previous stable release 
(8.0.0) so there have been no pull requests to it.



While I really like the action happening I wish we could collapse
things a bit and get the different branches consistent. For instance
let's start with removing those builds that are actually released.


You mean milestones.  I now have.  Thank you for pointing it out.


That would leave us with 8.02rc1, 8.1dp2 and 8.10 future (whatever
this is supposed to mean).


The 8.1.0-future milestone in the livecode-ide repository is used only
for GitHub issues (which we're probably not going to continue to use).
It is a milestone used for grouping issues which are probably not urgent 
to fix, but maybe could be addressed at a future point in the LiveCode 
8.1 development cycle.



Then could be get some guidance as to whether 8.1 contains the fixes
in 8.02 or not. In other words, if 8.02 fixes something we wanted
fixed but we also want to test against 8.1, can we count on not
having worry about a missing fix?


We (i.e. usually Ali, Panos or I) periodically merge the develop-8.0 
branch (which will be used to release 8.0.2-rc-1) into the develop 
branch (which will be used to release 8.1.0-dp-2).  If a fix released 
in, say, 8.0.2-rc-1, then the fix will be guaranteed to appear in all 
subsequent 8.0.x and 8.1.x releases.


Because of the stable branch stabilisation cycle, there will 
occasionally be times when a fix destined for stable is released in an 
unstable branch DP first.



Which gets me to my main hope. Could we perhaps release the rc' a bit
more frequently? I mean there was only one rc for 8.01 and now we are
already almost up to 8.02rc1 but before it was released we get an
8.1dp1. Can't you move the unfinished bits of 8.02rc1 into a future
8.02rc2 and get 8.02rc1 out? Will there be an 8.02rc2 or will you
jump to 8.03rc1? Sort makes the 'rc' labels superfluous.


In the stable branch, the dev team always makes at least one RC release 
to make sure that the subsequent final release is regression-free.  When 
there are no regressions found, it's okay to make the final release 
immediately.  Otherwise, it's necessary to fix the regressions (and 
_only_ the regressions) and make additional RC releases.


This helps to make sure that the stable releases really are stable. 
When bugs are fixed correctly, there aren't any regressions, so there 
will be exactly one RC release.  This is optimum.


It's incorrect to release anything that's "unfinished" in an RC1 because 
a release candidate is supposed to be a release candidate.  Bug fixes 
that don't make it into a stable RC1 release will wait until the next RC1.


At the moment I expect that 8.0.1 GM will be released this afternoon, 
and 8.0.2 RC 1 will be released in the next 7-10 days, depending on the 
development team schedule.  At the moment I am aiming for a minimum 
release rate of one stable and one unstable release per two weeks.


There is a cost to making releases, and the dev team needs to balance 
spending time on making releases with the many other tasks we're 
expected to do.


If you need builds outside the normal release process then there are two 
options:


- you can compile your own Community engines

- you can contact  for access to our internal 
staging server with candidate builds of Community, Indy and Business 
editions (some of our Business subscribers find this service useful, but 
note that these builds are "use at your own risk")


For more detailed information on how branches in GitHub relate to the 
release cycle, see 
https://github.com/livecode/livecode/blob/develop/docs/release_branching_policy.md


  Peter

--
Dr Peter Brett 
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode 2016 Conference: https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/

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MouseDown no longer sent to list fields??

This used to work in a text field with it's listBehavior set to true. No longer:

on mouseDown
  put the clickLine into theClickedLine
  put value(theClickedLine) into theSalesPerson
  put theSalesPerson into field "fldSalesPerson"
  hide me
  show group "grpCustContact"
end mouseDown

Now the field never sees the mouseDown message. So how do I tell if a user has 
clicked an item in the list? SelectionChanged is not sent to the object either! 
If this is not intended behavior, I will submit a bug, but this is how I do 
list selections in all of my projects. 

Bob S
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Re: Infinite Livecode Pledge

2016-05-24 Thread Mike Kerner

It is completely different.  VAT comes off the top line, like an excise
tax.  Income tax comes off the bottom line.  Therefore, if a firm is
plowing funds into development, it can be at or below 0 on the bottom line,
therefore the tax on the funds would be zero, and depending on its previous
history, there may even be a federal rebate.  Sales tax doesn't apply in a
case like this because you aren't getting a LC t-shirt, playing cards,
phone sleeve, etc.  Then there is the difference between S-corps and
C-corps, and their bases and rates, which would further depress the tax on
the take.

On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 9:57 AM, Richard Gaskin 
wrote:

> Lagi Pittas wrote:
>
> > I have just paid my pledge and I was cheesed off that  20% of
> > my DONATION/PLEDGE has gone to the government.
> >
> > If doing feature exchange is to save Kickstarter fees it certainly
> > doen't do that.
>
> It doesn't seem much different from how it works in the States - from the
> Kickstarter tax guide:
>
>In general, in the US, funds raised on Kickstarter are considered
>income.
>...
>Sales tax may also be applicable in certain cases depending on the
>local rules. In general, sales tax applies only if the creator has
>sufficient connection to the location of the backer.
>
> 
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>  
>  ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
>
>
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Project Browser

2016-05-24 Thread Ben Rubinstein


On 24/05/2016 15:44, Bob Sneidar wrote:

Did someone say there was a way to get the application browser back? The 
project browser in it's current form is a bit unusable. A couple times I 
attempted to drag-reorder the objects, and instead only succeeded at putting 
one object into another group. I changed the sort order to number and the 
window went blank. Yeah. No. Not usable.


I guiltily confess to not having used 8 in anger until now; at which point I 
have started collecting Project Browser issues. (Actually, just yesterday!)


On going to Bugzilla to think about how to report them, I see that there are 
many existing reports:


http://quality.livecode.com/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced_desc=project%20browser_desc_type=substring

(of which more than half resolved, and most of the others confirmed).  I 
confess I've not yet found the time to work through my list to see if there's 
anything not yet covered.


So I think we can expect progress!

In the meantime, you can access the Application Overview under 
Development/Plugins/revApplicationOverview.


But I'm trying to persevere with using PB as much as possible, in the hope of 
helping to track down the bugs...


Ben

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Re: Confusion over builds.

Well someone was quick.

;-)

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Project Browser

Hi all. 

Did someone say there was a way to get the application browser back? The 
project browser in it's current form is a bit unusable. A couple times I 
attempted to drag-reorder the objects, and instead only succeeded at putting 
one object into another group. I changed the sort order to number and the 
window went blank. Yeah. No. Not usable. 

Bob S
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Confusion over builds.