SVG Icon Inclusion Causes iOS app to crash

[Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami]

8.1.0 DP2

I had a lot of SVG icons on several stacks that are built into an iOS app.

I had forgotten to set that as an inclusion and when I built for iOS, they were 
blank.

I went back to the standalone settings for the loader stack, check "SVG Icon" 
in the inclusions; rebuilt the standalone and on iPhone 6 plus, it cause the 
app to immediately crash on opening.

I removed the inclusion, built again, and it worked.

Can anyone else confirm?

BR


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Re: Front and Back Scripts on Mobile

[Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami]

We are looking to use some back scripts on mobile.

If I add this to a backscript

command testMessagePath pMessage
  answer pMessage with "OK"
end testMessagePath


Add this to either a back OR front script.

then add a button to the top of any card in the stack

testMessagePath "Got it"

save and reload the stack… it works on desktop, but not on mobile

OTOH some other commands in the back script *are* firing… because we have some 
set up functions that are not failing.

Are there caveats for using front and back scripts on mobile that we need 
understand?

BR


To add more failure points

this works if we put everything in the stack script of the stack that has the 
scrolling group. but if we move the "createScroller" and isMobile and 
scrollerDidScroll commands to the back or front script… they fail.

??


on opencard

set the vScroll of grp "portal-links" to 0 -- ensures correct initial alignment

createScroller "portal-links" -- replaces any existing one

end opencard



command CreateScroller pName -- scrolling fields

if not isMobile() then exit CreateScroller

deleteMobileControl pName -- delete any existing

put (the rect of control pName) into tRect

mobileControlCreate "scroller", pName

mobileControlSet pName, "rect", tRect

put ("0,0," & (the formattedwidth of control pName) & "," & the formattedheight 
of control pName) into tRect

mobileControlSet pName, "contentRect" , tRect

mobileControlSet pName, "hScroll" , 0

mobileControlSet pName, "vScroll" , 0

mobileControlSet pName, "hIndicator" , false

-- if pName = "quote" then

-- mobileControlSet pName, "vIndicator", true

-- end if

mobileControlSet pName, "visible", true

end CreateScroller

on scrollerDidScroll hScrolled, vScrolled

put mobileControlTarget() into tControlID

set the vscroll of control tControlID to vscrolled

pass scrollerDidScroll

end scrollerDidScroll

function isMobile -- jg, for convenience

return the environment is "mobile"

end isMobile

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Front and Back Scripts on Mobile

[Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami]

We are looking to use some back scripts on mobile.

If I add this to a backscript

command testMessagePath pMessage
  answer pMessage with "OK"
end testMessagePath


Add this to either a back OR front script.

then add a button to the top of any card in the stack

testMessagePath "Got it"

save and reload the stack… it works on desktop, but not on mobile

OTOH some other commands in the back script *are* firing… because we have some 
set up functions that are not failing.

Are there caveats for using front and back scripts on mobile that we need 
understand?

BR


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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Warren Samples]

On 07/01/2016 02:49 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:


I would suggest filing the report.  If anyone complains, I'll take the
heat. :)

It may be that this is something we'll fix as a community effort, but at
least having it in the bug DB will give us a central place to share
notes and logs as we work toward a resolution.

Please let me know the report ID/URL when you post it so I can add
myself to the CC list and review the info there to see if I can help
triage it.

Thanks -



Thank you, Richard.

Bug 17938 LiveCode fails to open in openSUSE Leap 42.1



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Re: LC 8.1.0 (DP2) Stack opening on second monitor

[Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami]

I deleted the livecode7 preferences file and things are working again.

From: use-livecode  on behalf of 
Brahmanathaswami 
Reply-To: How LiveCode 
Date: Friday, July 1, 2016 at 4:32 PM
To: How LiveCode 
Subject: LC 8.1.0 (DP2) Stack opening on second monitor

Hmmm. OS X

I just installed 8.1.0 (DP2) and now all my stacks open on my second monitor.  
Which is actually my macbook PRO screen with the primary monitor set to the 
second, external, LG wide display

With the external monitor plugged in, the working screen rects return values as 
expected:


0,23,3440,1436

-1440,0,0,900  # so why are stacks opening in this space, even if moved and 
saved on this screen?
BR


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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Mark Wieder]

On 07/01/2016 03:15 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote:


They are literally back by popular demand. :-)


Thank you. Much appreciated.

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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LC 8.1.0 (DP2) Stack opening on second monitor

[Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami]

Hmmm. OS X

I just installed 8.1.0 (DP2) and now all my stacks open on my second monitor.  
Which is actually my macbook PRO screen with the primary monitor set to the 
second, external, LG wide display

With the external monitor plugged in, the working screen rects return values as 
expected:


0,23,3440,1436

-1440,0,0,900  # so why are stacks opening in this space, even if moved and 
saved on this screen?
BR

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Re: the detailed folders returning incorrect data

[Mark Wieder]

On 07/01/2016 11:17 AM, Paul Dupuis wrote:


This, by definition, is a bug in LiveCode. It is either a documentation
bug that the dictionary entries for folders and files do not state that
the permissions data is invalid for Windows OR it is a technical bug
that the permission values are invalid for Windows.


Agreed. Please file a bug report on this.

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Applying scripts that don't compile

[Monte Goulding]

Hi Folks

I’ve just submitted a patch for review that will mean that if the global 
gREVDevelopment is true then a script that doesn’t compile won’t actually be 
set on the object. Previously this check was just for the script editor but 
because suddenly removing the script of any IDE component can cause the IDE to 
become unstable thus making it hard to fix the compile error you just tried to 
apply this change makes it much easier to work on the IDE.

I’m thinking this would be a nice script editor preference to add to the IDE 
because the IDE is not the only thing that can become unstable! However, it is 
a huge issue in the IDE while probably only a minor annoyance for general 
scripting. What do people think? If we did this we would need to add warnings 
on closing the script editor to ensure the user knows that the script has not 
actually been set on the object yet. Do people think this would be generally 
helpful as a preference?

https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/pull/1269

Cheers

Monte
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web forum crash

[Mark Wieder]

The web forum has crashed.

General Error
SQL ERROR [ mysql4 ]

Table './lcuser_forums/phpbb_sessions' is marked as crashed and should be
repaired [145]

An sql error occurred while fetching this page. Please contact an administrator
if this problem persists.
Please notify the board administrator or webmaster: supp...@runrev.com

-- 
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com


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Re: Problem with custom functions

[Mark Wieder]

Quentin Long  writes:

> Recipe for the problem:
> 
> 0--Open LiveCode (Community Edition 8.0.0...

> ...What the heck is going on here?

You've encountered a bug that's been fixed in more recent versions.
I can confirm the problem with 8.0.0.
Try downloading a later version.

-- 
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com





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Re: Having major Livecode problems

[Monte Goulding]

Did you happen to save the preference files? Creating a bug report with them 
attached would be helpful.

Cheers

Monte

> On 2 Jul 2016, at 7:01 AM, pink  wrote:
> 
> clearing those files did the trick
> 
> my project browser works correctly now, and I haven't crashed all day
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Having-major-Livecode-problems-tp4706247p4706283.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 
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Re: Navigation bar widget icons

[Peter TB Brett]

On 01/07/2016 21:44, J. Landman Gay wrote:

Is there a way to add our own SVG icon paths to a navigation bar widget?
It looks like we can't.


It isn't, yet.  The enhancement request is in bug 17685.

   Peter

--
Dr Peter Brett 
LiveCode Technical Project Manager

LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/

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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Peter TB Brett]

On 01/07/2016 21:20, J. Landman Gay wrote:

On 6/30/2016 8:00 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote:

We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.0-dp-2


Thank you for adding back the descriptions of bug fixes. For the last
few releases all we had were numbers and it was difficult to know
exactly what was fixed without clicking on each link and loading a web
page. The revised report is much more useful. Good move.


They are literally back by popular demand. :-)

 Peter

--
Dr Peter Brett 
LiveCode Technical Project Manager

LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/

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Re: Having major Livecode problems

[pink]

clearing those files did the trick

my project browser works correctly now, and I haven't crashed all day



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Re: Navigation bar widget icons

[pink]

technically we cannot

theoretically if you can edit the "Icon SVG Library" you could add to it...
I'm still tinkering with this concept myself 

https://github.com/madpink/livecode/blob/develop/extensions/libraries/iconsvg/iconsvg.lcb

as far as I can tell, there are just three lines that make up each path:

put the empty array into tArray["umbrella"]
put "M896 892L896 1472Q896 ...DELETED MOST OF THE PATH... 896 192Z" into
tArray["umbrella"]["svg"]
put "f0e9" into tArray["umbrella"]["codepoint"]




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Navigation bar widget icons

[J. Landman Gay]

Is there a way to add our own SVG icon paths to a navigation bar widget? 
It looks like we can't.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[J. Landman Gay]

On 6/30/2016 8:00 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote:

We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.0-dp-2


Thank you for adding back the descriptions of bug fixes. For the last 
few releases all we had were numbers and it was difficult to know 
exactly what was fixed without clicking on each link and loading a web 
page. The revised report is much more useful. Good move.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: 32-bit Linux distros going away

[Richmond]

I don't think that's good news at all.

One of the premises of Linux is/was that it provided support from 
machines that got bogged
down with systems like Windows ME, XP and Vista as well as extremely 
under-powered pcs.


This basically means that very many machines indeed which are perfectly 
functional will either have
to stick on their current OS or be chucked in a landfill: the first 
option is awkward as updates of
software such as Firefox will stop working, and there may not be people 
who are prepared
to work on side clones such as Classilla [ 
http://www.floodgap.com/software/classilla/ ] and

TenFourFox [ http://www.floodgap.com/software/tenfourfox/ ].

"Given that 64-bit CPUs have been been dominant for more than a decade", 
well, maybe in
the rich countries such as the USA, but most definitely not in Eastern 
Europe, Africa, the Sub-Continent,

and so on.

I can hear the voice of the first world who forget that knowledge should 
not be a privilege of the
"haves", and that in our world as it is at the moment, children who do 
not have access to knowledge
(not very good libraries in many parts of the world) and ways of 
accessing that knowledge are at
a huge disadvantage. Now I am NOT a bleeding-heart Socialist, or a 
bleeding-heart anything else,
but after the 32 bit computers I bought second-hand from Germany "move 
on" I would far rather
that they be put to good use as educational tools as long as possible 
rather than being shoved in holes
in the ground to further poison our collective home; or "recycled" in 
various ways which, whatever 'they' tell you, releases all sorts of 
entertaining gases into the atmosphere.


This may sound odd, that software has an effect on landfills; but it does.

"I think this is pretty good news for us LiveCoders."

Really! What about Livecoders who want to produce standalones to run on 
32-bit Linux?


For the sake of argument: I have 10 32-bit computers in my school that 
function very well indeed,
now this news re Linux does not fuss me as they can merrily trot along 
using Xubuntu 14.04 LTS for
an awful lot LT than the S, and I can carry on usinf current 32 bit 
Livecode versions for trotting out EFL
delivery progs. for them. I am certainly NOT going to pitch them and 
invest in 10 64 bit machines.


BUT, then, I don't have access to the internet in my school because that 
is not necessary.


However, I do send copies of my programs off to a few schools in 
Botswana where a bloke
who was at school with me is doing wonders with just about the crappiest 
machines you can think of,

and he does have internet access, and uses it.

This actually makes me think that, open source or not, Linux is getting 
subtly commercialised.


Ubuntu has already demonstrated its "We know better than our end-users 
do" attitude several times;
the arrogance of success I suppose. Luckily one is still able to strap 
XFCE, LXDE, Cinnamon and so on onto the front of it so one doesn't have 
to use the awkward resource-sucker they push out as their

"official" desktop.

Ubuntu may just find that their uptake level suddenly goes right down.

Richmond.

On 1.07.2016 21:56, Richard Gaskin wrote:
Looks like Ubuntu will be joining Fedora and OpenSUSE in dropping 
support for 32-bit editions in future versions.


Given that 64-bit CPUs have been been dominant for more than a decade, 
I think this is pretty good news for us LiveCoders.  As new distros 
drop support for older 32-bit CPUs eventually LC can follow suit, 
allowing a more streamlined development and build process for modern 
systems.


End of an era: Linux distributions will soon stop supporting 32-bit PCs
 






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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Richard Gaskin]

Warren Samples wrote:

> I never filed a bug report. I reported my problem in a reply to
> another release announcement fairly recently and didn't receive
> any comment from any of the devs that have been generously
> participating on this list so  I (perhaps stupidly and/or unfairly)
> took that to mean there was little interest in tackling it. Linux
> is not anything like a single target and we've all seen the dreaded
> "we can't reproduce it here" response that has to be as frustrating
> to the devs as it is to those of us who have the problem :D I'm
> grateful for the interest you and Mark Wieder have shown. I'm not
> averse to filing or contributing to bug reports and will do so with
> your encouragement.

I would suggest filing the report.  If anyone complains, I'll take the 
heat. :)


It may be that this is something we'll fix as a community effort, but at 
least having it in the bug DB will give us a central place to share 
notes and logs as we work toward a resolution.


Please let me know the report ID/URL when you post it so I can add 
myself to the CC list and review the info there to see if I can help 
triage it.


Thanks -

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com


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Re: Controls on mobile apps - am I missing something?

[Terence Heaford]

> On 1 Jul 2016, at 17:28, Richard Gaskin  wrote:
> 
> Buttons are already quite good on macOS, as are fields, tabs, progress bars, 
> and most others.


I agree but there a subtle display errors.

The button and popup button/menu. To me the text seems a little low within the 
display.

There were problems with the tab control but the text display of this has now 
improved.

I am not obsessed with native controls but it is brought to your attention when 
the copies within LiveCode do not stand up to close scrutiny.

For me, a poor imitation of a native control impacts on how LiveCode is viewed 
in the wider world.

With regard to the DataGrid the normal highlighted text within a NSTableView is 
normally white on a coloured background.
You can implement this within a DataGrid but if you are trying to emulate MacOS 
you will be disappointed with the result.
The text will look a little blurred.

As a matter of interest the text display generally in LiveCode is not as 
sharp/clear as a native Cocoa app.
What system does LiveCode use to present text. If it uses the 


All the best

Terry


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32-bit Linux distros going away

[Richard Gaskin]

Looks like Ubuntu will be joining Fedora and OpenSUSE in dropping 
support for 32-bit editions in future versions.


Given that 64-bit CPUs have been been dominant for more than a decade, I 
think this is pretty good news for us LiveCoders.  As new distros drop 
support for older 32-bit CPUs eventually LC can follow suit, allowing a 
more streamlined development and build process for modern systems.


End of an era: Linux distributions will soon stop supporting 32-bit PCs


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Mac app compiled on Windows does not want to start

[Mike Bonner]

Not sure there's an easy way to keep it from happening.  If it is created
with the permission.. (doubtful since windows works differently but I've
been wrong often before) you could always run a linux vm in virtualbox, set
the permission, gzip it up and send it that way.

On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Klaus major-k  wrote:

> Hi hh,
>
> > Am 01.07.2016 um 15:57 schrieb [-hh] :
> >
> > If it's a newer MacOS (system integrity protection)
> > he/she could try to rightClick the icon and then
> > select "open" and choose again "open" in the
> > "unknown-dev-dialog".
>
> nope, it was no Gatekeeper security issue, see my response to Mike hint!
> But I got it running now, thank you.
>
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> http://www.major-k.de
> kl...@major-k.de
>
>
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Is this the expected behavior?

[David Bovill]

>
> on preOpenCard
> put the short name of recent card
> pass preOpenCard
> end preOpenCard


Why is the recent card when specified in a preOpenCard handler the name of
the current card, while it is the recent card if the same script is called:

on openCard
> put the short name of recent card
> pass openCard
> end openCard

Given that preOpenCard is called before actually displaying the card and
the openCard handler being called this seems wrong. Is this behavior
present in older versions of LC - or is this a bug?
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Re: Tree widget showing error in 8.1.0 (dp 2)

[David Bovill]

So far that fixed it this end.

On 1 July 2016 at 16:30, Paul Hibbert  wrote:

> Looks like I replied too soon - the error has just returned when I went
> back to LC!
>
> Paul
>
> > On Jul 1, 2016, at 8:03 AM, Paul Hibbert  wrote:
> >
> > I had the same issue with the rounded corner widget, but uninstalling it
> using the Extension Manager and then re-installing with the Extension
> Builder fixed the problem.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> >> On Jul 1, 2016, at 1:11 AM, David Bovill  wrote:
> >>
> >> Upgrading to 8.1.0 (dp 2) from 8.02 (rc 1) results in the tools palette
> >> showing a red exclamation mark over the tree widget - and the widget
> >> failing to display arrays.
> >>
> >> Anyone else having this issue?
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Re: the detailed folders returning incorrect data

[Paul Dupuis]

On 7/1/2016 1:50 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> For Windows you can specify specialFolderPath( "0x001a" ) which is the
> approved location for writing app data. On Mac it's the Application
> Support folder ; I thought there was a special designator for that too
> but I don't see one in the dictionary. If memory serves, it's" apsup"
> I think.

SpecialFolderPath("0x001a") is specialFolderPath(26) or
specialFolderPath("Support") and is C:/Users//AppData/Roaming

SpecialFolderPath("asup") (on OSX) is /Library/Application Support which
is the equivalent of SpecialFolderPath(35) on Windows or C:/ProgramData

Quite some time ago, we compiled a detailed spreadsheet of
specialFolderPath values and what they returned across various versions
of Windows and OSX.

The problem for us is, there are Windows corporate and university
environments where, in efforts to "lock down" Windows systems,
SpecialFolderPath("0x001a") is read only whether Microsoft says it
should be available or not.

Since we'd like to earn the business of some of these folks, we've
adopted a model of testing a variety of locations to write our app's
files - each needs a quick test to make sure (at the time of the test)
the folder is writable (and readable). We DO this now via a handler that
writes a empty test file, and if successful, then deletes it, returning
true or false for whether the folder is writable.

I was looking to rewrite that routine with what I thought would be a
cleaner version that actually check the detail folders permissions
column (item 10), which *works* as expected under OSX. What I ran into
was that, even though the dictionary entry said nothing about it not
being supported under Windows, the permission are in fact in error under
Windows.

This, by definition, is a bug in LiveCode. It is either a documentation
bug that the dictionary entries for folders and files do not state that
the permissions data is invalid for Windows OR it is a technical bug
that the permission values are invalid for Windows.


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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Warren Samples]

On 07/01/2016 11:53 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

Warren Samples wrote:

 > The 64 bit LiveCode IDE fails to open for me under openSUSE Leap
 > 42.1.
...
 > The shell prints a backtrace. Would this be helpful to see? Running
 > LiveCode through strace using some particular option?
 >
 > --- (end quote)---
 >
 > To clarify the last sentence of the first paragraph of the original
 > (copied here from the dev list) post, simple standalones and LiveCode
 > Server do work under Leap, it's the IDE that is the problem.

Good sleuthing so far.  Narrowing it down to the IDE is especially
useful, as it suggests something that may eventually affect standalones,
since of course the IDE is just a collection of stacks itself.

I'm not familiar with backtrace, but the output appears to be very
different from strace.  Have you run strace?  To get going I wouldn't
worry about flags, even the defaults would likely yield useful info.

What's the bug report ID for this?  Maybe the logs should be included as
attachments there.http://warren.ws/strace-LC-output.txt



Richard,

I never filed a bug report. I reported my problem in a reply to another 
release announcement fairly recently and didn't receive any comment from 
any of the devs that have been generously participating on this list so 
I (perhaps stupidly and/or unfairly) took that to mean there was little 
interest in tackling it. Linux is not anything like a single target and 
we've all seen the dreaded "we can't reproduce it here" response that 
has to be as frustrating to the devs as it is to those of us who have 
the problem :D I'm grateful for the interest you and Mark Wieder have 
shown. I'm not averse to filing or contributing to bug reports and will 
do so with your encouragement.


The strace output, run without any flags, is 2.4 MB and 27,000+ lines. 
It means nothing to me, dilettante that I am. You can find it here: 
 If you can think of any flags 
which might make it more manageable or useful, I will be happy to run it 
again.


Warren

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Re: the detailed folders returning incorrect data

[J. Landman Gay]

For Windows you can specify specialFolderPath( "0x001a" ) which is the 
approved location for writing app data. On Mac it's the Application Support 
folder ; I thought there was a special designator for that too but I don't 
see one in the dictionary. If memory serves, it's" apsup" I think.



Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com



On July 1, 2016 10:15:24 AM Paul Dupuis  wrote:


On 7/1/2016 7:49 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote:

I just wonder if there is a better away to approach the problem you
are trying to solve; or whether there is actually a problem to solve
at all (which isn't already solved by thorough error checking and
handling).


The problem I am working on has to do with reading and writing a
preferences file and a license file across platforms and within
platforms across versions of the OS and even within a platform (Windows)
and OS version, the wide range or ways corporate and university customer
take to secure computers in their labs and on their networks where
"typical" folders may be read only or otherwise restricted.

While the problem is predominately on the Windows side, we have run into
a university owned OSX box(es) in a lab where the Preference folder was
read only.

So, we also, for legacy reasons, need to look into multiple locations
for older versions of the license file or preference file that may have
been installed by (a) older versions of our software; (b) administrator
command line installs using site desktop management and deployment
software line LanDESK; (c) where current OS Manufacturer guidelines say
to put them (admittedly, not changed much on OSX, but has over time on
Windows and Windows moves more and more to a "sandboxed" model)

So, I walk through a list of locations, looking for existing files, if I
find it, and it is readable and writable, I use it. If I don't find it
OR it it is not read/writable, I also want to walk through a list of
location (different order) to find the first writable folder I can store
our preferences and license file in.

It is no longer the case where you can 100% rely of
specialFolderPath("preferences") [OSX] and specialFolderPath(26) [Win]
100% of the time in the real world out there.

I was hoping to use the detailed files and  detailed folders to check
read/write permissions vs the classic test file trick (which can also
suffer from changing over time). Given it not available on Windows, I
will go back to the classic model of testing folder write-ability by
trying to write a temp test file and deleting it if successful. And to
test existing file read/write by trying to open it for update and if no
errors, then closing it. Obviously, on successive writes, whether via
"put ... into URL ..." or via "open file ...", we check for errors in
case permissions have changed, disk space has been exceeded or the user
pulled the USB cable or whatever.

I am leaning towards writing everything into a sub-folder of the users
"Documents" folder as that seems to be the only place "guaranteed" by
both Apple and Microsoft to fully accessible to the user as them evolve
their OSes more and more to a locked down/sand boxed model.

I'm sure that's more background info that you either wanted or have time
for Mark :-)


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Re: Problem with custom functions

[Quentin Long]

Follow-up on my recent "WTF!?" message. With the same hardware and OS as in my 
first message, but running LiveCode Community Edition 7.0.0 build 10018 rather 
than the 8.0.0 version, custom functions work with no anomalous behavior I can 
discern.

Should I file a bug report?

   
"Bewitched" + "Charlie's Angels" - Charlie = "At Arm's Length"

Read the webcomic at [ http://www.atarmslength.net ]!

If you like "At Arm's Length", support it at [ 
http://www.patreon.com/DarkwingDude ].

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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Richard Gaskin]

Warren Samples wrote:

> The 64 bit LiveCode IDE fails to open for me under openSUSE Leap
> 42.1.
...
> The shell prints a backtrace. Would this be helpful to see? Running
> LiveCode through strace using some particular option?
>
> --- (end quote)---
>
> To clarify the last sentence of the first paragraph of the original
> (copied here from the dev list) post, simple standalones and LiveCode
> Server do work under Leap, it's the IDE that is the problem.

Good sleuthing so far.  Narrowing it down to the IDE is especially 
useful, as it suggests something that may eventually affect standalones, 
since of course the IDE is just a collection of stacks itself.


I'm not familiar with backtrace, but the output appears to be very 
different from strace.  Have you run strace?  To get going I wouldn't 
worry about flags, even the defaults would likely yield useful info.


What's the bug report ID for this?  Maybe the logs should be included as 
attachments there.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: revUpdateGeometry throwing error

[Dr. Hawkins]

*bump*

Does anyone have an idea for this?  I've done everything I can to try to
find a way to debug it, but I'm stuck.

It still throws the error on program load.

I've even deleted all the live code configuration files and reinstalled,
yet the problem remains.


On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 4:09 PM, Dr. Hawkins  wrote:

> Sometime after processing the open scripts for my main stack, but before
> processing messages sent from there with "send0", there is an error thrown
> by revUpdateGeometry.  As near as I can tell, its has to do with the
> message box.
>
> If I put
>
>
> answer "!!!";breakppoint
>
>
> at the beginning of the preOpenStack, the behavior doesn't manifest.
>
> Otherwise,
>
> whoops! 6/25/164:07 PM
>
> 1466896063910
>
>
> lib: error occurred on line: 478
>
>
> pParseError:
>
>
>
> pExecutionError:
>
> 573,478,1,revUpdateGeometry
>
> 587,478,1
>
> 241,464,1,controlsExpand
>
> 353,0,0,stack "/Applications/LiveCode Indy
> 7.1.4.app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/revmessagebox.rev"
>
> 573,93,1,controlsExpand
>
> 253,93,1
>
> 241,90,1,preOpenStack
>
> 353,0,0,stack "/Applications/LiveCode Indy
> 7.1.4.app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/revmessagebox.rev"
>
>
> context:
>
> stack
> "/Users/hawk/dhbk/16/1604/160404/dhLib.160404b.livecode",errorDialog,826
>
> gets sent to the errorDialgo handler:
>
> *on* errorDialog pExecutionError, pParseError
>
>cck  ("whoops! " & the date & the time & cr & the milliseconds & cr &
> cr  \
>
>  & "lib: error occurred on line: " & item 2 of line 1 of
> pExecutionError & cr & cr  \
>
>& "pParseError:" & cr & pParseError & cr & cr  \
>
>  & "pExecutionError:" & cr & pExecutionError & cr & cr &
> "context:" & cr & the executionContexts & cr)
>
> where cck is a hack that dumps into a watch window.
>
> I'm stumped; I've been fighting this all day.
>
> After the error is thrown, all seems to work.
>
> Note that now pParseError is sent by the engine . . .
> --
> Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
> (702) 508-8462
>



-- 
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
(702) 508-8462
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Re: Controls on mobile apps - am I missing something?

[Richard Gaskin]

Terence Heaford wrote:

> So with regard to Mac OS if we/I want native controls for:
>
> Buttons,
> Fields,
> Tabs,
> DataGrid (NSTable)
> etc.
>
> I will have to roll my own in LCB (when available for this) or wait
> for LiveCode to require to do it via a stretch goal?


If you're looking for an implementation of a control on just one of the 
6 GUI platforms LC supports, it would seem reasonable to roll your own.


The LC team has to support multiple OSes, which of course multiplies the 
cost of an implementation.


But for the most part that shouldn't be needed.

Buttons are already quite good on macOS, as are fields, tabs, progress 
bars, and most others.  The transition to Cocoa really moved those 
forward nicely, and the recent theme refinements have made them quite 
satisfying.  There should be no need to rewrite those from scratch in 
any language at all.  And they look very good on Windows and Linux as well.



To rewrite the DataGrid for macOS using NSTable would be non-trivial. 
Indeed, I've never seen any control on any platform implemented in C (or 
C++ or Objective C etc.) as flexible for the end-user as what the DG 
provides.


I was talking about these sorts of issues recently with my friend Mark 
Lucas, the lead developer of SuperCard.  He reminded me that the Cocoa 
framework provides many great features that save significant time for 
Objective C developers, but they assume your app's appearance and 
behavior are defined before compile-time.  With xTalks like SuperCard 
and LiveCode, the engine developers need to accommodate a much more 
dynamic world in which, for the scripters using these tools, development 
and runtime are virtually indistinguishable.  This requires the stewards 
of an xTalk engine to, as he likes to put it, "reach in between the fan 
blades", to work around the constraints of the OS APIs that made 
NextStep/Cocoa so great for ObjC devs but unusually challenging for 
xTalk devs.


When we see apps making good use of APIs like NSTable, we usually see a 
user-facing implementation that reflects a relatively small subset of 
all of the capabilities of that class.


If there is any other high-level scripting language that uses NSTable to 
provide access to as many properties and features as LC's DataGrid, I've 
not come across it yet.


That said, I've never programmed in Objective C and am not familiar with 
the NSTable class.  If it's affordable to implement, perhaps you could 
point the way.


The LiveCode team, however, faces a very different challenge:  in 
addition to a macOS version they'd also need do that work all over again 
with a different set of APIs for Windows, Linux, and Android.


I'm sure they'd love to have the time for that.  But to get them that 
time we'd need to let them know which other things we've been asking 
them to do are less important so they could set those aside.  And given 
the scope of the task, I'd imagine the list of set-asides would be 
rather long.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com


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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Warren Samples]

On 07/01/2016 10:00 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

Warren Samples wrote:

ldd doesn't show anything missing. Getting LiveCode to run under
Tumbleweed requires no head scratching or additional installation of
libs, using the official installation DVD and as well the geckoLinux
spin (rolling version) in both the XFCE and Budgie flavors.

There's a thread on the dev list with the subject "LiveCode fails to
open in openSUSE Leap".


Searching for that string gave me zero results, and searching for
"OpenSUSE" brought up many old threads.

URL?




I follow the lists locally, in my email client, so I can't provide you a 
URL. The thread was started on 6-23 on the LiveCode Developer List. Here 
is the content of the original post:


---(start quote)---

The 64 bit LiveCode IDE fails to open for me under openSUSE Leap 42.1. 
It was previously working under openSUSE versions 12.x and 13.x. While 
there was a period when it failed under Tumbleweed (rolling release), it 
works in at least the last two snapshots. Simple standalones work as do 
simple LC Server scripts.


The first few times I tried, the LiveCode splash screen hanged while 
loading the menu bar (the last text displayed) and the process had to be 
killed. Now the splash screen disappears after less than a second.


Here is the tail of the livecode_tools_log:
 Loading Script Editor...
Enter Script Editor Initialisation
Leave Script Editor Initialisation
Loading User Icon Libraries...
Enter User Libraries Initialisation
Leave User Libraries Initialisation
Loading Error Management...
Enter Errors Initialisation
Leave Errors Initialisation
Loading Menu Bar...
Enter Menus Initialisation
  Trying to get the platform
  Linux

Starting LiveCode from the command line returns this error:
"Error in 
`/home/warren/.runrev/components/livecodecommunity-8.0.2-rc-2.x86_64/livecodecommunity.x86_64': 
free(): invalid next size (fast): 0x04e84a80"


and sends this to stderr:
"Use of deprecated SAXv1 function setDocumentLocator
Got SIGIOT"

It's strange that SUSE built on older and newer libs both work while the 
current "main" version does not. Do these errors reveal any useful clues 
as to what might be done to get it working?


The shell prints a backtrace. Would this be helpful to see? Running 
LiveCode through strace using some particular option?


--- (end quote)---

To clarify the last sentence of the first paragraph of the original 
(copied here from the dev list) post, simple standalones and LiveCode 
Server do work under Leap, it's the IDE that is the problem.


openSUSE is quietly one of the more popular distros and Leap is the 
current "standard" release so it might be a good thing to get this 
figured out. I wonder what LiveCode does just after it gets the 
platform, as it finishes up the menus initialization. I posted the shell 
backtrace at:




It should be noted that if I run the command several times, the 
backtrace will not consistently end with the same lines; sometimes 
aborting with more lines and sometimes fewer.


Thank you for looking at this :)

Warren


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Re: Controls on mobile apps - am I missing something?

[Richard Gaskin]

Mark Waddingham wrote:

On 2016-06-30 21:25, Richard Gaskin wrote:

OS APIs change out from under the engine with expensive regularity,
and all the while, even as mobile enhancements would indeed be
valuable, there's a rather long list of other things we're asking them
to do as well.


H, at the end of the day, supporting iOS is (I would say) a great
deal less work then attempting to support
all-kinds-of-linux-distribution-under-the-sun as is evident by the
unfortunate problems people have using LiveCode on many of the
distributions with low 'market share'.


Interesting.  I hadn't thought about iOS there, but I suppose that's a 
part of it, even if a small one.  I was thinking more generally about 
the evolution of OSes, such as Apple's moves from 68k to PPC, Classic to 
OS X, PPC to Intel, Carbon to Cocoa, and 32-bit to 64-bit; and while 
Microsoft generally provides unusually good backward compatibility, the 
migration from MCI to the new media APIs has required some rework.


Each of the changes in OSes seem to be a reasonable move that improves 
the user experience.  But they do cost developers time and money to stay 
on top of.  So while it's easy for folks using LC to take for granted 
that most things just continue to work year after year, behind the 
scenes there's a good bit of effort going into it to make that happen.




For example, the amount of time we have spent on trying to work out why
the browser does not work on certain distributions probably exceeds the
amount of time we have spent updating to support new iOS SDKs in the
last six months - and it is still not resolved.


Indeed, which is one of the reasons I've been eager to see what we Linux 
users in the community can do to minimize the impact of those things.


The diversity of Linux distros is a key part of its growth, but it's not 
easy for any development team to support them all.


For example, I realize Steam is an unusually demanding app, but their 
system requirements for Linux go so far as to specify only one distro, 
and only one specific supported version of that distro.


LiveCode's needs are less severe than Steam's, but Linux is so diverse 
it seems reasonable to expect some limitations with the scope of 
official support from the core team for the many various distros.


Migrating some of that support overhead to the community seems 
achievable, and useful for everyone in allowing the core team to stay 
focused on things requiring their unique talents.


No one wants to see the team postpone critical work while addressing a 
font rendering issue on Hanna Montana Linux. :)

http://hannahmontana.sourceforge.net/

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Mac app compiled on Windows does not want to start

[Klaus major-k]

Hi hh,

> Am 01.07.2016 um 15:57 schrieb [-hh] :
> 
> If it's a newer MacOS (system integrity protection)
> he/she could try to rightClick the icon and then
> select "open" and choose again "open" in the
> "unknown-dev-dialog".

nope, it was no Gatekeeper security issue, see my response to Mike hint!
But I got it running now, thank you.


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
http://www.major-k.de
kl...@major-k.de


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Re: Mac app compiled on Windows does not want to start

[Klaus major-k]

Hi Mike,

> Am 01.07.2016 um 15:54 schrieb Mike Bonner :
> 
> Yeah, sounds like it lost the correct permissions during the transfer to
> the mac.  

obviously, any way to prevent this?

> you can either chmod 755 

thanks, that was it, it is running fine now :-)

> I think you have to go into the app package and hit the actual executable,
> don't think it will work on the app package itself.  (You can probably also
> set the permissions using finder.. go to where the app package is located,
> bring up the context menu and show the package contents, then drill down
> through contents/MacOS to locate the binary, get the context menu for the
> file and get info and from there, set the permissions. (for everyone,
> probably read and execute, not write.)
> 
> Sorry for kinda glossing over all this.  I can't get on a mac mac at the
> moment, so I can't give exact steps.

I already managed it, thanks for the final hint!


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
http://www.major-k.de
kl...@major-k.de


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Re: Problem with custom functions

[Earthednet-wp]

Try putting:
Cubit(3).In the message box, without the "put"
This messed me up for awhile too.
Bill

William Prothero
http://es.earthednet.org

> On Jul 1, 2016, at 8:03 AM, Quentin Long  wrote:
> 
> I'm not sure if I've exposed a horrible bug, or I've managed to completely 
> forget something utterly bleeding obvious, or what. But whatever the deal is, 
> I am having inordinate difficulty trying to use custom functions.
> 
> Recipe for the problem:
> 
> 0--Open LiveCode (Community Edition 8.0.0, build 13018) on a MacBook Pro 
> (13-inch, mid-2012) running OS X 10.11.5, with a 500 GB hard drive (300 GB 
> free space) and 16GB of RAM
> 
> 1--Create a new stack
> 
> 2--Put this into the script of the new stack:
> 
> function CubeIt DerNum
>   return (DerNum ^ 3)
> end CubeIt
> 
> 3--Type "put CubeIt (3)" into the message box
> 
> Expected result: "27" should show up in the message box.
> Actual result: Nothing shows up in the message box.
> 
> 4--Type "put CubeIt 3" into the message box
> Result:
> "Script compile error:
> "Error description: Handler: bad command"
> 
> What the heck is going on here?
> 
> "Bewitched" + "Charlie's Angels" - Charlie = "At Arm's Length"
> 
> Read the webcomic at [ http://www.atarmslength.net ]!
> 
> If you like "At Arm's Length", support it at [ 
> http://www.patreon.com/DarkwingDude ].
> 
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Re: Tree widget showing error in 8.1.0 (dp 2)

[Paul Hibbert]

Looks like I replied too soon - the error has just returned when I went back to 
LC!

Paul

> On Jul 1, 2016, at 8:03 AM, Paul Hibbert  wrote:
> 
> I had the same issue with the rounded corner widget, but uninstalling it 
> using the Extension Manager and then re-installing with the Extension Builder 
> fixed the problem.
> 
> Paul
> 
>> On Jul 1, 2016, at 1:11 AM, David Bovill  wrote:
>> 
>> Upgrading to 8.1.0 (dp 2) from 8.02 (rc 1) results in the tools palette
>> showing a red exclamation mark over the tree widget - and the widget
>> failing to display arrays.
>> 
>> Anyone else having this issue?
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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Richard Gaskin]

Mark Wieder wrote:
> The dictionary "works" for me in 64-bit linux, but only thusly:
>
> open the dictionary
> you get a blank pane
> close the dictionary
> open it again

An electrician, an engineer, and a programmer are driving to Vegas when 
the car suddenly shudders to a stop.


The electrician suggests, "I think we should check the spark plugs."

The engineer says, "I think we should check the intake valves."

The programmer says, "I think we should get out of the car and then get 
back into it again."



--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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LC v8.1 DP2: Kudos!

[Richard Gaskin]

I was just reviewing the Release Notes for dp2 - wonderful new 
enhancements, many more than I'd imagined would be in this build, 
including refinements to GPS support, the new eventShiftKey and other 
synchronous modifier key functions, simplified PDF display with the CEF 
browser, the ability to specify a stack with the revert command, and 
dozens more.


Nice work, team.  Thanks!

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: the detailed folders returning incorrect data

[Paul Dupuis]

On 7/1/2016 7:49 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote:
> I just wonder if there is a better away to approach the problem you
> are trying to solve; or whether there is actually a problem to solve
> at all (which isn't already solved by thorough error checking and
> handling).

The problem I am working on has to do with reading and writing a
preferences file and a license file across platforms and within
platforms across versions of the OS and even within a platform (Windows)
and OS version, the wide range or ways corporate and university customer
take to secure computers in their labs and on their networks where
"typical" folders may be read only or otherwise restricted.

While the problem is predominately on the Windows side, we have run into
a university owned OSX box(es) in a lab where the Preference folder was
read only.

So, we also, for legacy reasons, need to look into multiple locations
for older versions of the license file or preference file that may have
been installed by (a) older versions of our software; (b) administrator
command line installs using site desktop management and deployment
software line LanDESK; (c) where current OS Manufacturer guidelines say
to put them (admittedly, not changed much on OSX, but has over time on
Windows and Windows moves more and more to a "sandboxed" model)

So, I walk through a list of locations, looking for existing files, if I
find it, and it is readable and writable, I use it. If I don't find it
OR it it is not read/writable, I also want to walk through a list of
location (different order) to find the first writable folder I can store
our preferences and license file in.

It is no longer the case where you can 100% rely of
specialFolderPath("preferences") [OSX] and specialFolderPath(26) [Win]
100% of the time in the real world out there.

I was hoping to use the detailed files and  detailed folders to check
read/write permissions vs the classic test file trick (which can also
suffer from changing over time). Given it not available on Windows, I
will go back to the classic model of testing folder write-ability by
trying to write a temp test file and deleting it if successful. And to
test existing file read/write by trying to open it for update and if no
errors, then closing it. Obviously, on successive writes, whether via
"put ... into URL ..." or via "open file ...", we check for errors in
case permissions have changed, disk space has been exceeded or the user
pulled the USB cable or whatever.

I am leaning towards writing everything into a sub-folder of the users
"Documents" folder as that seems to be the only place "guaranteed" by
both Apple and Microsoft to fully accessible to the user as them evolve
their OSes more and more to a locked down/sand boxed model.

I'm sure that's more background info that you either wanted or have time
for Mark :-)


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Re: the detailed folders returning incorrect data

[Richard Gaskin]

Mark Waddingham wrote:

> There are two things to remember when dealing with files and folders:
>
>1) You have to check for success of all your file operations -
> they can fail for all kinds of reasons which are entirely outwith
> your control, not just permissions issues.
>
>2) There is a time-of-check to time-of-use problem with things
> related to unopened files / folders: just because permissions look
> okay before you start an operation, doesn't mean they will be okay
> by the time you start the operation, or will remain so throughout
> the operation.
...
> I just wonder if there is a better away to approach the problem you
> are trying to solve...

Over the years I've become a big fan of the sysError function, for both 
of the reasons you outlined.


I call it after file I/O operations in conjunction with checking the 
result, e.g.:


   open file tFile
   if the result is not empty then
  answer the result &" ("& sysError() &")"
  exit to top
   end if

SysError returns the OS-suppplied error code for the most recent error 
reported by the system to LiveCode.  As such it often provides a 
valuable clue about the specifics of the problem, whereas LC's error 
strings tend to be more general.


For example, LC may report "can't open file" where sysError reports "2", 
letting you know it's likely a path  or file name issue.


On Windows I believe "access denied" will return "5" with sysError.

The more I've found sysError invaluable for learning the specifics of 
I/O issues, the more I regret not having adopted it as a habit years 
earlier.  Tremendous time-saver.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com


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Re: Tree widget showing error in 8.1.0 (dp 2)

[Paul Hibbert]

I had the same issue with the rounded corner widget, but uninstalling it using 
the Extension Manager and then re-installing with the Extension Builder fixed 
the problem.

Paul

> On Jul 1, 2016, at 1:11 AM, David Bovill  wrote:
> 
> Upgrading to 8.1.0 (dp 2) from 8.02 (rc 1) results in the tools palette
> showing a red exclamation mark over the tree widget - and the widget
> failing to display arrays.
> 
> Anyone else having this issue?
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Problem with custom functions

[Quentin Long]

I'm not sure if I've exposed a horrible bug, or I've managed to completely 
forget something utterly bleeding obvious, or what. But whatever the deal is, I 
am having inordinate difficulty trying to use custom functions.

Recipe for the problem:

0--Open LiveCode (Community Edition 8.0.0, build 13018) on a MacBook Pro 
(13-inch, mid-2012) running OS X 10.11.5, with a 500 GB hard drive (300 GB free 
space) and 16GB of RAM

1--Create a new stack

2--Put this into the script of the new stack:

function CubeIt DerNum
   return (DerNum ^ 3)
end CubeIt

3--Type "put CubeIt (3)" into the message box

Expected result: "27" should show up in the message box.
Actual result: Nothing shows up in the message box.

4--Type "put CubeIt 3" into the message box
Result:
"Script compile error:
"Error description: Handler: bad command"

What the heck is going on here?
   
"Bewitched" + "Charlie's Angels" - Charlie = "At Arm's Length"

Read the webcomic at [ http://www.atarmslength.net ]!

If you like "At Arm's Length", support it at [ 
http://www.patreon.com/DarkwingDude ].

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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Richard Gaskin]

Warren Samples wrote:

ldd doesn't show anything missing. Getting LiveCode to run under
Tumbleweed requires no head scratching or additional installation of
libs, using the official installation DVD and as well the geckoLinux
spin (rolling version) in both the XFCE and Budgie flavors.

There's a thread on the dev list with the subject "LiveCode fails to
open in openSUSE Leap".


Searching for that string gave me zero results, and searching for 
"OpenSUSE" brought up many old threads.


URL?

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Mac app compiled on Windows does not want to start

[[-hh]]

If it's a newer MacOS (system integrity protection)
he/she could try to rightClick the icon and then
select "open" and choose again "open" in the
"unknown-dev-dialog".



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Re: Mac app compiled on Windows does not want to start

[Mike Bonner]

Yeah, sounds like it lost the correct permissions during the transfer to
the mac.  you can either chmod 755 

I think you have to go into the app package and hit the actual executable,
don't think it will work on the app package itself.  (You can probably also
set the permissions using finder.. go to where the app package is located,
bring up the context menu and show the package contents, then drill down
through contents/MacOS to locate the binary, get the context menu for the
file and get info and from there, set the permissions. (for everyone,
probably read and execute, not write.)

Sorry for kinda glossing over all this.  I can't get on a mac mac at the
moment, so I can't give exact steps.

On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 7:21 AM, Klaus major-k  wrote:

> Hi friends,
>
> a client of mine has compiled a Mac standalone on Windows and now the app
> will not run:
> "The application XXX cannot be run" or what the exact english message
> reads!?
>
> I remember faintly there is some problem with erm. "executable bit"?
> But forgot the details...
>
> Or does the app have to be compiled on a Mac, to run properly?
>
> Any hints highly appreciated! Thank you!
>
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> http://www.major-k.de
> kl...@major-k.de
>
>
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Mac app compiled on Windows does not want to start

[Klaus major-k]

Hi friends,

a client of mine has compiled a Mac standalone on Windows and now the app will 
not run:
"The application XXX cannot be run" or what the exact english message reads!?

I remember faintly there is some problem with erm. "executable bit"?
But forgot the details...

Or does the app have to be compiled on a Mac, to run properly?

Any hints highly appreciated! Thank you!


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
http://www.major-k.de
kl...@major-k.de


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Re: Having major Livecode problems

[[-hh]]

Did you check for differences of the LC-prefs files?

They are in /Users/pink/Library/Preferences/RunRev
and probably not 'synced'.



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Re: the detailed folders returning incorrect data

[Mark Waddingham]

On 2016-06-30 23:13, Paul Dupuis wrote:
It would be so much nicer to actually check permissions that tricks 
like

writing dummy files and checking for errors


I think it is important to clarify what you are wanting to achieve here.

There are two things to remember when dealing with files and folders:

  1) You have to check for success of all your file operations - they 
can fail for all kinds of reasons which are entirely outwith your 
control, not just permissions issues.


  2) There is a time-of-check to time-of-use problem with things related 
to unopened files / folders: just because permissions look okay before 
you start an operation, doesn't mean they will be okay by the time you 
start the operation, or will remain so throughout the operation.


ACLs on Windows (as already has been mentioned) are very fine-grained 
(and quite complex) - I suspect they should be thought of more as 
'failsafes which get triggered whenever you do something you are not 
allowed to do' rather than 'things to be queried to see if you can do 
something'.


I just wonder if there is a better away to approach the problem you are 
trying to solve; or whether there is actually a problem to solve at all 
(which isn't already solved by thorough error checking and handling).


Warmest Regards,

Mark.

P.S. I'm not saying that being able to query the Window's ACLs would not 
potentially be useful - just that even with that ability you might find 
that it only works in a subset of cases...


--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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Having major Livecode problems

[pink]

I have three computers (an iMac, a Mac Mini, a Macbook Air) which I use for
programming.

I started having major problems with Livecode on 2 of the 3 computers,
regardless of whether I'm using 8.0.0, 8.0.1 or one of the developmental
releases.
-Random and frequent crashes (with no crash report displayed)
-Project manager doesn't work correctly if there are groups on a card
-System will randomly lock up when switching cards and give me a spinning
beachball of death

But on the 3rd computer, everything works fine. All 3 computers have the
same plugins/extensions etc... I've also tried removing all extensions and
plugins, and I still have issues. The "My Livecode" folder is synced in
Dropbox.

I would like to think at this point, that it's me and something going on my
computer... so what do I need to do to wipe off all current traces of
Livecode and start fresh? 



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Re: Access mounted volumes on Windows from LC?

[Mark Waddingham]

On 2016-07-01 12:38, Ben Rubinstein wrote:

However this is an app developed over very many years and in use in a
number of places processing a great deal of text; and although in
theory using the new Unicode capabilities will make it a lot better,
in practise the current installations contain a lot of character set
workarounds which will break. Until I/my clients can justify the
testing load of the upgrade, I don't wish to move this app even to LC
7 let alone 8.


Do you have some examples of the character set workarounds that break in 
7+?


Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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Re: Access mounted volumes on Windows from LC?

[Ben Rubinstein]

On 30/06/2016 19:35, Richard Gaskin wrote:

Roger Eller wrote:

I never build for Windows in OS X.  So I only know when it worked and
stopped and worked again on Windows.  I do recall some talk about the Mac
version still having the issue for a while after 6.7.5.


Any potential bug symptoms evident in v6.x or v7.x need to be checked in the
most recent DP build, currently 8.1 dp2.

6 and 7 have joined 5 and 4 and the others in having reached end-of-life.
Technical support is still available for current subscribers, but no new work
is being done on versions prior to 8. Any bugs found in those older versions
will remain forever.


Hi Richard,

Thanks for the note - and indeed I'm doing all my new work in 8.1dp2, which is 
going great.


However this is an app developed over very many years and in use in a number 
of places processing a great deal of text; and although in theory using the 
new Unicode capabilities will make it a lot better, in practise the current 
installations contain a lot of character set workarounds which will break. 
Until I/my clients can justify the testing load of the upgrade, I don't wish 
to move this app even to LC 7 let alone 8.


Fortunately, although the UNC bug broken in 6.6.4 and repaired in 6.7.5 was 
broken again by 6.7.7; it was repaired again by at least 6.7.11, the last 
version of 6.7. So I'm cautiously happy!


Ben


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Re: Controls on mobile apps - am I missing something?

[Ben Rubinstein]

On 30/06/2016 20:25, Richard Gaskin wrote:

But while it's easy to write a sentence or two of things describing others to
do, it's not quite as easy to actually do the work.


Very true! And I realised after I sent my last email that I was sounding like 
one of those people


But:
While:
I'm very excited about widgets;
and backed both the original infinite-livceode;
and the native field extension;

Yet:
 I think there is a bit of a danger that concentrating
on the new babies is leaving the older sibling neglected and
disgruntled... and looking ugly.

I still remember the thrill some 15 years ago of building an app on Mac, and 
seeing it 'just work' first time on Windows (albeit some tweaking needed).


But in relation to mobile, for me the real value of LiveCode is not the 
one-time saving on remaking the interface for another platform - but the 
ongoing efficiency of continuous development on desktop, versus the 
conventional edit-compile-test cycle.


That's why I think "it would be better if" the existing basic controls worked 
reasonably well on mobile platforms, and the existence of the various 
libraries, widgets, and mobileControlxxx functions - while all of them being 
extremely valuable - does not, for me, negate that ambition.


In my ideal future there would be no more "mobileXXX" terms in the dictionary; 
just as most of the "iphoneXXX" terms were generalised to be "mobileXXX", my 
dream would be for as many as possible of the 'mobileXXX' terms to be 
generalised (and/or merged with the existing 'desktop' functions) to work on 
any platform, so that the developer could use a single set of functions to 
compose and send an email (with functions to tell me if it's available on the 
current platform); to access location and heading information, accelerometer, 
built in camera (again with functions to tell me which features are 
available).  After all most 'desktops' are now laptops, many of which have 
cameras, accelerometers, various density screens, idle timers, etc...


In this respect I was delighted when sockets were implemented on mobile, that 
this was done as a peaceful extension of the existing functions, rather than 
as a new 'mobileSocketxxx" suite. Grateful though I am for Monte's fabulous 
work: I had a utility developed and debugged and used on the desktop, which I 
simply couldn't face recoding using mergSocket, so I just waited. When the day 
came I simply checked the box to build for iOS, selected my phone and hit 
"test" - and it worked, first time, on my phone! That was a fabulous win for 
LiveCode.


I'm really hoping (though I'm not clear if this is true or not) that the 
Native Field Object is not implemented as another new widget but as a new 
presentation of the LiveCode field object. A new widget would obviously be 
better than the using the mobileControlxxx functions (themselves a welcome 
addition); but even better if we can drag a field onto a stack, and have it 
work appropriately and according to expectation on all platforms.


Of course, to return to your point above: t say "even better if" is not to 
deny the amount of work that may be involved, or pre-judge the priorities.


Best regards,

Ben



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Re: Controls on mobile apps - am I missing something?

[Terence Heaford]

> On 1 Jul 2016, at 09:13, Mark Waddingham  wrote:
> 
> On 2016-07-01 00:38, Terence Heaford wrote:
>> Perhaps LiveCode should spend time incorporating the native controls
>> for each platform.
> 
> Hence:
> 
>   - widgets
> 
>   - https://livecode.com/project/infinite-livecode/
> 
>   - https://livecode.com/project/infinite-livecode-native-field-object/
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
> 
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I think I understand, a native field for iOS (plus other mobile platforms) is a 
stretch goal.

So with regard to Mac OS if we/I want native controls for:

Buttons,
Fields,
Tabs,
DataGrid (NSTable)
etc.

I will have to roll my own in LCB (when available for this) or wait for 
LiveCode to require to do it via a stretch goal?

To me the publicity surrounding LCB seems and discussions suggest that 3rd 
parties are more likely to produce widgets for specific purposes
rather than native controls and it will be left to LiveCode to produce native 
controls via stretch goals.

I fear a long wait(perhaps years) before the availability of native controls?


All the best

Terry





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RE: LiveCode throwing compile errors for a stack which previously worked

[Francis Nugent Dixon]

Hi from Beautiful Brittany (when it rains, I just LiveCode !)

Malte - Thanks a million - problem solved !

I wonder who set that flag - must have been me after a few
whiskeys (progress is a series of monumental F**k-Ups)

Brilliant 10 second solution to a pain in the butt !

Best Regards

-Francis

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Re: Monte Goulding's day off? ; -) the outcome.

[Mark Waddingham]

On 2016-07-01 11:26, Monte Goulding wrote:

From the perspective of mergJSON it would be simpler to convert it to
lcidl based and therefore set variables to specific data types than to
do what you are suggesting here as there’s simply no access to the
strings from Jannson.


Indeed - that would put it in the same class of operation as the LCB 
JSON library.


To be fair, I *suspect* the outcome would be entirely equivalent for any 
use of the input data where the numberFormat is configured to show less 
than around 15 decimal d.p. - which you should never exceed anyway, 
since that's the limit of what can be represented without error.


The main reason the 'decimal-as-string' idea might be 'nice' is that it 
allows faithful roundtripping of values in a JSON array. For example, if 
your program is only processing parts of an array generated from a JSON 
file and then writing it back out again, at the moment all numbers would 
get reformated as though they'd been round-tripped through doubles, if 
the conversion to double is done lazily (i.e. only if they are processed 
and set again) then only the parts of the file which need to change do 
change. (Of course, the structure of the JSON file in terms of 
whitespace wouldn't be preserved, however it would mean that the file as 
a whole would be stable apart from modified values after the first time 
it was passed through the processing program).


Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
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LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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Re: Monte Goulding's day off? ; -) the outcome.

[Monte Goulding]

> On 1 Jul 2016, at 5:58 PM, Mark Waddingham  wrote:
> 
>  1) Any JSON parser usable from LiveCode Script (right now) should just 
> return all values as strings - it should check they are well-formed as per 
> the JSON spec, but not actually attempt to convert or process them as the 
> engine is more than capable of doing that for you. (Except for quoted values 
> in JSON - they need to be 'unescaped').

From the perspective of mergJSON it would be simpler to convert it to lcidl 
based and therefore set variables to specific data types than to do what you 
are suggesting here as there’s simply no access to the strings from Jannson.

Cheers

Monte
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Re: Monte Goulding's day off? ; -) the outcome.

[Mark Waddingham]

On 2016-07-01 10:26, Peter TB Brett wrote:

At the moment, the bridging rules from LiveCode Script to LCB types
and vice versa make the JSON library extension very nice to use from
LCB and reasonably usable from LCS.


The LCB extension differs from mergJSON though in that it actually can 
return 'numbers' to LCS - these are then affected by 'the numberFormat'. 
This is almost as good as a 'stringy-number' - although you do, of 
course, lose the original string representation.


Of course, the idea of 'stringy-number' could just be recast as a 
Decimal-number-represented-as-string type (which is what it is the more 
I think about it) - something that would just converted to a binary-fp 
representation when you do something numbery on it; or appropriately 
apply the numberFormat to the string rep when something stringy is done 
with it.



To implement the scheme you describe above, the current JSON extension
would need to be split into three parts:

- An event-driven lexer/parser module that does no type conversion at
all but calls a set of callback handlers as it passes through the JSON
document

- A module for use from LCB that does LCB type conversion

- A library for use from LCS that doesn't do any type conversion at all


Or a parameter which says 'don't convert token values?'? ;)

Alternatively, if we had a DecimalString representation for Number (as 
described above) it would be a simple change - construct DecimalString 
number-rep from token string rather than the binary-fp number rep.


Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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Re: Monte Goulding's day off? ; -) the outcome.

[Peter TB Brett]

On 01/07/2016 08:58, Mark Waddingham wrote:

  1) Any JSON parser usable from LiveCode Script (right now) should just
return all values as strings - it should check they are well-formed as
per the JSON spec, but not actually attempt to convert or process them
as the engine is more than capable of doing that for you. (Except for
quoted values in JSON - they need to be 'unescaped').


This approach is pretty problematic from the point of view of the JSON 
library extension shipped with the IDE.  I originally wrote it for use 
from LiveCode Builder, and as such it has to convert JSON values to 
their "correct" LCB types in order to work usefully.


At the moment, the bridging rules from LiveCode Script to LCB types and 
vice versa make the JSON library extension very nice to use from LCB and 
reasonably usable from LCS.


To implement the scheme you describe above, the current JSON extension 
would need to be split into three parts:


- An event-driven lexer/parser module that does no type conversion at 
all but calls a set of callback handlers as it passes through the JSON 
document


- A module for use from LCB that does LCB type conversion

- A library for use from LCS that doesn't do any type conversion at all

I can probably do that (and keep the API backward-compatible) but it 
seems like a lot of work. :-)


  Peter

--
Dr Peter Brett 
LiveCode Technical Project Manager

LiveCode 2016 Conference: https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/

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Re: Controls on mobile apps - am I missing something?

[Mark Waddingham]

On 2016-06-30 21:25, Richard Gaskin wrote:

OS APIs change out from under the engine with expensive regularity,
and all the while, even as mobile enhancements would indeed be
valuable, there's a rather long list of other things we're asking them
to do as well.


H, at the end of the day, supporting iOS is (I would say) a great 
deal less work then attempting to support 
all-kinds-of-linux-distribution-under-the-sun as is evident by the 
unfortunate problems people have using LiveCode on many of the 
distributions with low 'market share'.


For example, the amount of time we have spent on trying to work out why 
the browser does not work on certain distributions probably exceeds the 
amount of time we have spent updating to support new iOS SDKs in the 
last six months - and it is still not resolved.



Would it perhaps be in the better interests of the community of
scripters to put together a team to script those in LC Builder and let
the C++ engineers remain focused on things requiring C++?


Indeed! That is one of the most LiveCode-user-visible points of the 
whole LCB endeavour.


Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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Re: Controls on mobile apps - am I missing something?

[Mark Waddingham]

On 2016-07-01 00:38, Terence Heaford wrote:

Perhaps LiveCode should spend time incorporating the native controls
for each platform.


Hence:

   - widgets

   - https://livecode.com/project/infinite-livecode/

   - https://livecode.com/project/infinite-livecode-native-field-object/

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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Tree widget showing error in 8.1.0 (dp 2)

[David Bovill]

Upgrading to 8.1.0 (dp 2) from 8.02 (rc 1) results in the tools palette
showing a red exclamation mark over the tree widget - and the widget
failing to display arrays.

 Anyone else having this issue?
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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Richmond]

Nothing doing over here (Xubuntu 16.04 64 bit) either with
Community or Indy.

Richmond.

On 1.07.2016 08:07, Mark Wieder wrote:

On 06/30/2016 11:44 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

Richmond wrote:
 > Still waiting (64-bit, Linux) for the Dictionary.

Which distro?

I've been able to use the Dictionary on 64-bit Ubuntu (14.04, 15.10, and
16.04) ever since LC v8.0rc1.

@LC Ltd:  good work on the Dictionary UI refinements.  MUCH more usable.



The dictionary "works" for me in 64-bit linux, but only thusly:

open the dictionary
you get a blank pane
close the dictionary
open it again




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Re: Monte Goulding's day off? ; -) the outcome.

[Mark Waddingham]

On 2016-06-30 17:00, Lagi Pittas wrote:
Now here is the reason I got on my high horse. The code to build the 
JSON

string and save it to a file is miniscule. The bit to fix the JSON is
longer and will need a  a unique version for a different formatted JSON
file unless I write a parser/tokeniser  that will find real numbers 
with a

precision greater than 2 (in this case).


Well, high horses are fine - but just remember that the higher you are, 
the more likely to hurt yourself if you fall off ;)


This case actually illustrates quite well the difficulty with trying to 
'bridge' the (abstraction) gap between a very high level language like 
LiveCode Script and a lower level language like C. It isn't an easy 
thing to do, nor is it necessarily always 'obvious' what the approach 
should be.


The mergJSON external does the best it can in terms of mapping the way 
jansson (the C library it uses) to the way the old-style external 
interface allows you to present values. As it turns out, what has been 
identified is that (for LiveCode Script, at least) it would be far 
better if the string value of the tokens parsed as values were used and 
not their conversion to their actual type - but jansson does not work 
like that because it is designed to be used from C and friends (and is 
so very successfully in a large number of projects).


There have been two very useful outcomes from this conversation, 
however:


  1) Any JSON parser usable from LiveCode Script (right now) should just 
return all values as strings - it should check they are well-formed as 
per the JSON spec, but not actually attempt to convert or process them 
as the engine is more than capable of doing that for you. (Except for 
quoted values in JSON - they need to be 'unescaped').


  2) Ideally there would (internally) be a form of 'stringy-number' 
which work consistently with 'the numberFormat'. If this were the case, 
then you get the best of both worlds - the actual type of any value 
specified in the JSON input file would be detectable by using the 'is 
strictly' operators; but you'd still retain the specific representative 
string for a number that was present in the input if you just wanted to 
treat things as strings. (i.e. You gain 'faithfulness' of 
representation, without taking away the ability to know what the author 
of the JSON file really meant).


Indeed (2) goes further - since 7+ we've been struggling with the 
'correct' approach to numeric literals in script - their handling has 
been changed a number of times to try and ensure things work 
consistently and well; up until now my general thoughts were that they 
were handled the best way they could be with the numeric representation 
internally (for numbers) being binary floating point and the only thing 
that would make them better would be to switch to decimal floating 
point. However, the latter comes with a hefty performance cost (outside, 
perhaps, of certain IBM mainframes whose processors can do decimal 
floating point in hardware). Allowing numeric literals to also carry 
their 'representative string', and making sure they are used 
appropriately with 'the numberFormat' would clean this part of the 
engine up considerably.


Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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