Re: Kindle fire apps?

[William Prothero via use-livecode]

Thanks, Richard! As always, great info.
Bill

> On Jan 5, 2017, at 11:32 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> William Prothero wrote:
> 
> > I'm considering purchasing a Kindle Fire so I can take my books with
> > me on a trip to Spain without fear of losing my iPad Pro, which costs
> > 10 times as much as the Kindle.
> >
> > I'm wondering, tho, if anybody is making apps for Kindle with
> > livecode. I read, in the Kindle reviews, that the Kindle doesn't
> > access the Google App Store. So I'm wondering if the Kindle is a
> > viable test platform for Android apps.
> 
> Very much so.  I would consider Amazon's FireOS an essential deployment for 
> serious developers.
> 
> At 4% Amazon's market share isn't as big as Apple's 25.8% or Samsung's 15.6%, 
> but it is by far the fastest-growing at 1200% YoY:
> 
> 
> Lat year I got the Amazon Fire 7" tablet, which lists for US$49.99 and 
> patient people can usually pick it up on sales throughout the year for 
> US$39.99.  Amazing hardware for that price point.  Not a top-of-the-line 
> tablet for forty bucks, but certainly beyond others below US$60.  I don't 
> even like tablets, but I find myself reading on that one often. And if you 
> need a 7" Android-compatible tablet for testing, the low price makes it a 
> no-brainer to round out your test pool.
> 
> Amazon's business model with devices is to sell the hardware super-cheap and 
> recoup on content sales.  This makes their devices generally good consumer 
> values, but at the cost of convenience for long-time Android fans, since 
> Google Play is not installed.
> 
> It's possible to install Google Play, but only through a lot of work. Few 
> bother. I didn't.
> 
> Most consumers will use the device as-is, but not an impediment to 
> developers: Amazon's dev site appears at least as easy to work with as 
> Google's (Jacque may be able to provide more hands-on feedback on that).
> 
> During testing both stock Android and Amazon's rebranded FireOS are 
> super-easy to deploy to.  And since the same Android build will run on both 
> flavors, the modest time required to set up a dev account at Amazon is an 
> easy choice to justify given the size of their audience and the smaller 
> number of apps there competing for attention.
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> 
> ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
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Re: Codesigning issue with revxml.bundle in LC 8

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

The code walks through your app bundle and signs any bundles it comes
across (e.g. revxml). Once that is done it signs your app bundle.

-- 
Trevor

On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 10:15 AM Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> yesss! It works, now the validation with spctl is valid. I didn't got any
> confirmation or feedback of you program, beside of a light "plop", if this
> is correct, then it worked :)
>
> Just for my interest, what are you doing different with "sealed resources"
> as the native codesign?
>
>
>
> Thank you for sharing you tool!
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Re: OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Might have been a new email client. I dunno. 

Bob S


> On Jan 5, 2017, at 14:23 , Stephen Barncard via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 2:21 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> And visible on the list. BTW you *are* using plain text for your email
>> format?
> 
> 
> Yes. I got the memo about 10 years ago.
> 
> --
> Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
> mixstream.org
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Re: OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed

[Stephen Barncard via use-livecode]

On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 2:21 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> And visible on the list. BTW you *are* using plain text for your email
> format?


Yes. I got the memo about 10 years ago.

--
Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
mixstream.org
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Re: OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

And visible on the list. BTW you *are* using plain text for your email format? 
I have been bounced because I had rich text formatting or HTML or an attachment 
before. Not sure if "hold for moderator" is the same as a bounce tho'. 

Bob S


> On Jan 5, 2017, at 14:18 , Stephen Barncard via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Even though I got the 'too many bounces' notification yet again today, I'm
> still subscribed (as of this moment).
> 
> sqb
> 
> On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 9:14 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Mailman is an active project and seemingly well supported.  Most of the
>> lists I subscribe to use it.
>> 
>> I wonder if upgrading from the v2.1.20 LC Ltd currently uses to the
>> current version 2.1.23 might help?
>> 
>> There's also a version 3.0 available, but I'm not certain when that will
>> be designated as "Stable".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
> mixstream.org
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Re: OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed

[Stephen Barncard via use-livecode]

Even though I got the 'too many bounces' notification yet again today, I'm
still subscribed (as of this moment).

sqb

On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 9:14 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> Mailman is an active project and seemingly well supported.  Most of the
> lists I subscribe to use it.
>
> I wonder if upgrading from the v2.1.20 LC Ltd currently uses to the
> current version 2.1.23 might help?
>
> There's also a version 3.0 available, but I'm not certain when that will
> be designated as "Stable".




--
Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
mixstream.org
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Re: OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Stupid Spell Correct!!!

Bob S


On Jan 5, 2017, at 14:05 , Stephen Barncard via use-livecode 
> wrote:

SHH!  Nobody answer!


Just don't call me 'barnyard' please.

--
Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
mixstream.org


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Re: Not Corruption

[Quentin Long via use-livecode]

sez J. Landman Gay:
> On 1/4/17 4:05 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote:
> > I feel so stupid. But I must confess I screwed up.
> You did the right thing posting here. I have a client who runs into 
> problems all the time, so we schedule a Skype session where I can see 
> what's going wrong. Invariably, as soon as she tells me about the issue 
> and I'm watching her screen, she immediately figures out the reason 
> without my help. All I have to do is be there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_duck_debugging
   
"Bewitched" + "Charlie's Angels" - Charlie = "At Arm's Length"

Read the webcomic at [ http://www.atarmslength.net ]!

If you like "At Arm's Length", support it at [ 
http://www.patreon.com/DarkwingDude ].

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Re: OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed

[Stephen Barncard via use-livecode]

On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 2:02 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> SHH!  Nobody answer!


Just don't call me 'barnyard' please.

--
Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
mixstream.org
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Re: OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

SHH!  Nobody answer!

On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 4:46 PM, Stephen Barncard via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> testing.
>
> --
> Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
> mixstream.org
>
> On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 9:14 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Heather Laine wrote:
> >
> > > It is possible that the only real solution here is to stop using
> > > Mailman. This could be quite disruptive to all, but is something
> > > we will take under consideration. To be fair, this list has been
> > > running on this software for... 18 years? Its not surprising if
> > > it ultimately reaches end of life as the world moves on.
> >
> > Mailman is an active project and seemingly well supported.  Most of the
> > lists I subscribe to use it.
> >
> > I wonder if upgrading from the v2.1.20 LC Ltd currently uses to the
> > current version 2.1.23 might help?
> >
> > There's also a version 3.0 available, but I'm not certain when that will
> > be designated as "Stable".
> >
> > --
> >  Richard Gaskin
> >  Fourth World Systems
> >  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> >  
> >  ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
> >
> >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: save stack as filename failing most of the time

[Rick Harrison via use-livecode]

Hi again,

Ok, so first looked at the settings for the defaultFolder,
and then I set the defaultFolder to where I wanted
everything to be saved.  I chose to use my desktop
to be super easy.  

It turned out that the defaultFolder somehow strangely
got set to a RunRev Application Support folder within
the Library folder, and yes it was a hidden folder, so
that did explain why the search of my hard drive didn’t
reveal the location of the newly created stack.

So upon choosing and setting the default folder to
be the desktop, the stack then saved as promised
to my desktop to my great relief.

Thank you folks for your help and patience on this!
No need for a bug report.

Rick
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Re: OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed

[Stephen Barncard via use-livecode]

testing.

--
Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
mixstream.org

On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 9:14 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Heather Laine wrote:
>
> > It is possible that the only real solution here is to stop using
> > Mailman. This could be quite disruptive to all, but is something
> > we will take under consideration. To be fair, this list has been
> > running on this software for... 18 years? Its not surprising if
> > it ultimately reaches end of life as the world moves on.
>
> Mailman is an active project and seemingly well supported.  Most of the
> lists I subscribe to use it.
>
> I wonder if upgrading from the v2.1.20 LC Ltd currently uses to the
> current version 2.1.23 might help?
>
> There's also a version 3.0 available, but I'm not certain when that will
> be designated as "Stable".
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>  
>  ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
>
>
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> subscription preferences:
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Re: Kindle fire apps?

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

William Prothero wrote:

> I'm considering purchasing a Kindle Fire so I can take my books with
> me on a trip to Spain without fear of losing my iPad Pro, which costs
> 10 times as much as the Kindle.
>
> I'm wondering, tho, if anybody is making apps for Kindle with
> livecode. I read, in the Kindle reviews, that the Kindle doesn't
> access the Google App Store. So I'm wondering if the Kindle is a
> viable test platform for Android apps.

Very much so.  I would consider Amazon's FireOS an essential deployment 
for serious developers.


At 4% Amazon's market share isn't as big as Apple's 25.8% or Samsung's 
15.6%, but it is by far the fastest-growing at 1200% YoY:



Lat year I got the Amazon Fire 7" tablet, which lists for US$49.99 and 
patient people can usually pick it up on sales throughout the year for 
US$39.99.  Amazing hardware for that price point.  Not a top-of-the-line 
tablet for forty bucks, but certainly beyond others below US$60.  I 
don't even like tablets, but I find myself reading on that one often. 
And if you need a 7" Android-compatible tablet for testing, the low 
price makes it a no-brainer to round out your test pool.


Amazon's business model with devices is to sell the hardware super-cheap 
and recoup on content sales.  This makes their devices generally good 
consumer values, but at the cost of convenience for long-time Android 
fans, since Google Play is not installed.


It's possible to install Google Play, but only through a lot of work. 
Few bother. I didn't.


Most consumers will use the device as-is, but not an impediment to 
developers: Amazon's dev site appears at least as easy to work with as 
Google's (Jacque may be able to provide more hands-on feedback on that).


During testing both stock Android and Amazon's rebranded FireOS are 
super-easy to deploy to.  And since the same Android build will run on 
both flavors, the modest time required to set up a dev account at Amazon 
is an easy choice to justify given the size of their audience and the 
smaller number of apps there competing for attention.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: save stack as filename failing most of the time

[Mike Bonner via use-livecode]

Since there is no error, and it shows "TestSaveStack" my guess is it IS
saving the file correctly, but a folder along the way to where the file is
saved is hidden (hence being unsearchable.)  If you set the folder to a
known location (prior to the save) and then save it, it will probably be
right where you expect.
Or if you specify a full path, that will probably work too.

Am I the only one who saves the current filename of the stack (assuming it
has one)  sets the filename, tell it to save itself, and reset the filename
back to the original?  Actually nevermind, I see Klaus did it both ways.

On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 10:47 AM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Mike,
>
> Using your code in the button shows in the message box
> TestSaveStack
>
> Which is the name of the file.
>
> Searching my entire hard drive doesn’t show
> any file named “TestSaveStack”.
>
> There is no error reported for "the result”.
>
> Rick
>
>
> > On Jan 5, 2017, at 11:32 AM, Mike Bonner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > If you change it to
> > on mouseup
> > save this stack as "TestSaveStack"
> > put it && the result
> > put cr & the files after msg
> > end mouseup
> > does it return an error?
> > If not, does it show the file?
> >
> > If the default folder is set to an unwritable folder you should receive
> an
> > error. If not, you should see the saved stack in the files.
> > the defaultfolder on startup (windows) seems to be
> > C:/Users/myUserName/AppData/Local/RunRev/Documentation
> > Cache/9_0_0_dp_1_community/IDE
> >
> > Not exactly where one would look for it. Also, the "recent files" of the
> > file menu doesn't reflect the save.
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 9:20 AM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>> On Jan 3, 2017, at 6:38 PM, Bob Sneidar 
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Not sure this helps you but I use Save this stack all the time and I
> can
> >> see the stack in the finder append a tilde (~), create a new stack file
> >> then the file with the tilde goes away. My changes are always there
> >> afterwards.
> >>>
> >>> Bob S
> >>>
> >>
> >> Hi again,
> >>
> >> 1. Create a new stack
> >>
> >> 2. Put a button on it.
> >>
> >> 3. Edit the button to insert the following code:
> >>
> >> on mouseUp
> >>
> >> save this stack as  “TestSaveStack"
> >>
> >> end mouseUp
> >>
> >>
> >> 4. Test the button
> >>
> >> It just doesn’t work at all.  No stack gets saved!
> >>
> >> I’m using LC Indy version 8.1.2
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
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Re: Kindle fire apps?

[William Prothero via use-livecode]

I haven't spent much effort beyond loading the Android simulator. But I'm also 
wondering if there are any complications regarding Kindle deployment.
Best,
Bill

William Prothero
http://es.earthednet.org

> On Jan 5, 2017, at 10:33 AM, Glen Bojsza via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have Google Play installed on my Fire so I can install apps that aren't
> in the Amazon store...I did it over a year ago but this article is more
> recent and looks like it is easier than the hoops I jumped through to get
> it installed on mine at the time.
> 
> http://lifehacker.com/how-to-get-google-play-on-a-kindle-fire-and-install-any-1790706649
> 
> On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 1:24 PM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> I wonder if a Kindle can download and install an Android app from a
>> webpage?
>> 
>> Richmond.
>> 
>> 
>>> On 1/5/17 8:08 pm, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote:
>>> 
>>> Folks,
>>> I'm considering purchasing a Kindle Fire so I can take my books with me
>>> on a trip to Spain without fear of losing my iPad Pro, which costs 10 times
>>> as much as the Kindle.
>>> 
>>> I'm wondering, tho, if anybody is making apps for Kindle with livecode. I
>>> read, in the Kindle reviews, that the Kindle doesn't access the Google App
>>> Store. So I'm wondering if the Kindle is a viable test platform for Android
>>> apps.
>>> 
>>> Thx for any insights.
>>> Bill
>>> 
>>> William Prothero
>>> http://es.earthednet.org
>>> ___
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
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>>> 
>> 
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Re: Kindle fire apps?

[Roger Eller via use-livecode]

My wife has a Kindle Fire HD, and if I remember correctly, she can install
apps from the Google Play Store, but has to access it from the website
rather than an app.  https://play.google.com/store/apps

~Roger


On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 1:08 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Folks,
> I'm considering purchasing a Kindle Fire so I can take my books with me on
> a trip to Spain without fear of losing my iPad Pro, which costs 10 times as
> much as the Kindle.
>
> I'm wondering, tho, if anybody is making apps for Kindle with livecode. I
> read, in the Kindle reviews, that the Kindle doesn't access the Google App
> Store. So I'm wondering if the Kindle is a viable test platform for Android
> apps.
>
> Thx for any insights.
> Bill
>
> William Prothero
> http://es.earthednet.org
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Re: Kindle fire apps?

[Glen Bojsza via use-livecode]

I have Google Play installed on my Fire so I can install apps that aren't
in the Amazon store...I did it over a year ago but this article is more
recent and looks like it is easier than the hoops I jumped through to get
it installed on mine at the time.

http://lifehacker.com/how-to-get-google-play-on-a-kindle-fire-and-install-any-1790706649

On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 1:24 PM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I wonder if a Kindle can download and install an Android app from a
> webpage?
>
> Richmond.
>
>
> On 1/5/17 8:08 pm, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote:
>
>> Folks,
>> I'm considering purchasing a Kindle Fire so I can take my books with me
>> on a trip to Spain without fear of losing my iPad Pro, which costs 10 times
>> as much as the Kindle.
>>
>> I'm wondering, tho, if anybody is making apps for Kindle with livecode. I
>> read, in the Kindle reviews, that the Kindle doesn't access the Google App
>> Store. So I'm wondering if the Kindle is a viable test platform for Android
>> apps.
>>
>> Thx for any insights.
>> Bill
>>
>> William Prothero
>> http://es.earthednet.org
>> ___
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>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
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Re: Kindle fire apps?

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

I wonder if a Kindle can download and install an Android app from a webpage?

Richmond.

On 1/5/17 8:08 pm, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote:

Folks,
I'm considering purchasing a Kindle Fire so I can take my books with me on a 
trip to Spain without fear of losing my iPad Pro, which costs 10 times as much 
as the Kindle.

I'm wondering, tho, if anybody is making apps for Kindle with livecode. I read, 
in the Kindle reviews, that the Kindle doesn't access the Google App Store. So 
I'm wondering if the Kindle is a viable test platform for Android apps.

Thx for any insights.
Bill

William Prothero
http://es.earthednet.org
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Kindle fire apps?

[William Prothero via use-livecode]

Folks,
I'm considering purchasing a Kindle Fire so I can take my books with me on a 
trip to Spain without fear of losing my iPad Pro, which costs 10 times as much 
as the Kindle.

I'm wondering, tho, if anybody is making apps for Kindle with livecode. I read, 
in the Kindle reviews, that the Kindle doesn't access the Google App Store. So 
I'm wondering if the Kindle is a viable test platform for Android apps. 

Thx for any insights.
Bill

William Prothero
http://es.earthednet.org
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Re: save stack as filename failing most of the time

[Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode]

On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 9:47 AM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> Searching my entire hard drive doesn’t show
> any file named “TestSaveStack”.
>

Do you get the same result if you make a stack in a known location, perhaps
InitialTestStack, and then use the button.

What I see is the stack saving under it's original name.

Also, yesterday the first time I hit this line of code, it worked properly,
and failed every time after that.

-- 
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
(702) 508-8462
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Re: save stack as filename failing most of the time

[Klaus major-k via use-livecode]

Hi all,

> Am 05.01.2017 um 18:47 schrieb Rick Harrison via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> Hi Mike,
> 
> Using your code in the button shows in the message box
> TestSaveStack
> 
> Which is the name of the file.
> 
> Searching my entire hard drive doesn’t show 
> any file named “TestSaveStack”.
> 
> There is no error reported for "the result”.
> 
> Rick

just made a test with LC 8.1.2 and 9.0 dp4 and both of these scripts result in 
a livecode stack on my desktop!

1. 
...
put specialfolderpath("desktop") & "/teststack.livecode" into tFileName
save this stack as tFilename
...

2.
...
set the filename of this stack to (specialfolderpath("desktop") & 
"/teststack.livecode")
save this stack
...

macOS 10.12.2


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
http://www.major-k.de
kl...@major-k.de


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Re: save stack as filename failing most of the time

[Rick Harrison via use-livecode]

Hi Mike,

Using your code in the button shows in the message box
TestSaveStack

Which is the name of the file.

Searching my entire hard drive doesn’t show 
any file named “TestSaveStack”.

There is no error reported for "the result”.

Rick


> On Jan 5, 2017, at 11:32 AM, Mike Bonner via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> If you change it to
> on mouseup
> save this stack as "TestSaveStack"
> put it && the result
> put cr & the files after msg
> end mouseup
> does it return an error?
> If not, does it show the file?
> 
> If the default folder is set to an unwritable folder you should receive an
> error. If not, you should see the saved stack in the files.
> the defaultfolder on startup (windows) seems to be
> C:/Users/myUserName/AppData/Local/RunRev/Documentation
> Cache/9_0_0_dp_1_community/IDE
> 
> Not exactly where one would look for it. Also, the "recent files" of the
> file menu doesn't reflect the save.
> 
> On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 9:20 AM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 3, 2017, at 6:38 PM, Bob Sneidar 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Not sure this helps you but I use Save this stack all the time and I can
>> see the stack in the finder append a tilde (~), create a new stack file
>> then the file with the tilde goes away. My changes are always there
>> afterwards.
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>> 
>> Hi again,
>> 
>> 1. Create a new stack
>> 
>> 2. Put a button on it.
>> 
>> 3. Edit the button to insert the following code:
>> 
>> on mouseUp
>> 
>> save this stack as  “TestSaveStack"
>> 
>> end mouseUp
>> 
>> 
>> 4. Test the button
>> 
>> It just doesn’t work at all.  No stack gets saved!
>> 
>> I’m using LC Indy version 8.1.2
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Heather Laine wrote:

> It is possible that the only real solution here is to stop using
> Mailman. This could be quite disruptive to all, but is something
> we will take under consideration. To be fair, this list has been
> running on this software for... 18 years? Its not surprising if
> it ultimately reaches end of life as the world moves on.

Mailman is an active project and seemingly well supported.  Most of the 
lists I subscribe to use it.


I wonder if upgrading from the v2.1.20 LC Ltd currently uses to the 
current version 2.1.23 might help?


There's also a version 3.0 available, but I'm not certain when that will 
be designated as "Stable".


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: save stack as filename failing most of the time

[Mike Bonner via use-livecode]

If you change it to
on mouseup
save this stack as "TestSaveStack"
put it && the result
put cr & the files after msg
end mouseup
does it return an error?
If not, does it show the file?

If the default folder is set to an unwritable folder you should receive an
error. If not, you should see the saved stack in the files.
the defaultfolder on startup (windows) seems to be
C:/Users/myUserName/AppData/Local/RunRev/Documentation
Cache/9_0_0_dp_1_community/IDE

Not exactly where one would look for it. Also, the "recent files" of the
file menu doesn't reflect the save.

On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 9:20 AM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> > On Jan 3, 2017, at 6:38 PM, Bob Sneidar 
> wrote:
> >
> > Not sure this helps you but I use Save this stack all the time and I can
> see the stack in the finder append a tilde (~), create a new stack file
> then the file with the tilde goes away. My changes are always there
> afterwards.
> >
> > Bob S
> >
>
> Hi again,
>
> 1. Create a new stack
>
> 2. Put a button on it.
>
> 3. Edit the button to insert the following code:
>
> on mouseUp
>
> save this stack as  “TestSaveStack"
>
> end mouseUp
>
>
> 4. Test the button
>
> It just doesn’t work at all.  No stack gets saved!
>
> I’m using LC Indy version 8.1.2
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: Problem building standalone

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

OK so I figured out what the issue was saving as standalone, and I can do so 
under 8.0.2. Oddly, the mainstack in the bundle is still Zero Kilobytes, but 
the app runs so obviously I am missing something there. 

Now I need to back everything up and attempt a compile with later versions and 
see what happens. I have never been able to compile beyond 8.0.2. 

Bob S


> On Jan 5, 2017, at 07:51 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Interesting you should say that. I presently cannot build a standalone. 
> Examination of the package indicates that the mainstack in the bundle is Zero 
> K! I am going to try supressing messages and see if that helps. 
> 
> Bob S

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Re: save stack as filename failing most of the time

[Rick Harrison via use-livecode]

> On Jan 3, 2017, at 6:38 PM, Bob Sneidar  wrote:
> 
> Not sure this helps you but I use Save this stack all the time and I can see 
> the stack in the finder append a tilde (~), create a new stack file then the 
> file with the tilde goes away. My changes are always there afterwards.
> 
> Bob S
> 

Hi again,

1. Create a new stack

2. Put a button on it.

3. Edit the button to insert the following code:

on mouseUp

save this stack as  “TestSaveStack"

end mouseUp


4. Test the button

It just doesn’t work at all.  No stack gets saved!

I’m using LC Indy version 8.1.2










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AW: Codesigning issue with revxml.bundle in LC 8

[Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode]

Hi Trevor,

yesss! It works, now the validation with spctl is valid. I didn't got any 
confirmation or feedback of you program, beside of a light "plop", if this is 
correct, then it worked :)

Just for my interest, what are you doing different with "sealed resources" as 
the native codesign?

Thank you for sharing you tool!

Tiemo



-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von 
Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 5. Januar 2017 16:34
An: How to use LiveCode 
Cc: Trevor DeVore 
Betreff: Re: Codesigning issue with revxml.bundle in LC 8

On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 7:40 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode < 
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> thank you for that helpful link.
> After I gave rwx permission to the files with chmod I could 
> successfully use xattr -cr, whereafter I could "successfully" codesign 
> my app without error.
> But verifying the codesigning with spctl it shows me the error "a 
> sealed resource is missing or invalid" It doesn't show any hint, what 
> resource is missing. (I have a valentinadb, some rev bundles and some 
> files included in my app bundle).
> Has anybody any idea on how to drill down what is missing here (what 
> was no problem on OS X 10.11)?
> Any hints appreciated
>

Tiemo,

You might try signing the application using the script only stack that I posted 
here:’

https://gist.github.com/trevordevore/3e91724c4573690b691510d2e2dcd2a7

Does that work for you?

--
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps
www.screensteps.com-www.clarify-it.com
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Re: Problem building standalone

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Interesting you should say that. I presently cannot build a standalone. 
Examination of the package indicates that the mainstack in the bundle is Zero 
K! I am going to try supressing messages and see if that helps. 

Bob S


> On Jan 4, 2017, at 18:02 , Dr. Hawkins  wrote:
> 
> It seems that if I first launch livecode, then turn off messages and load
> my monolithic stack, then build, I get a working binary in 8.1.2.
> 
> I suspect that the startup routines are making changes that later confuse
> the compiler, but . . .
> 
> 
> -- 
> Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
> (702) 508-8462
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Re: Codesigning issue with revxml.bundle in LC 8

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 7:40 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> thank you for that helpful link.
> After I gave rwx permission to the files with chmod I could successfully
> use
> xattr -cr, whereafter I could "successfully" codesign my app without error.
> But verifying the codesigning with spctl it shows me the error "a sealed
> resource is missing or invalid" It doesn't show any hint, what resource is
> missing. (I have a valentinadb, some rev bundles and some files included in
> my app bundle).
> Has anybody any idea on how to drill down what is missing here (what was no
> problem on OS X 10.11)?
> Any hints appreciated
>

Tiemo,

You might try signing the application using the script only stack that I
posted here:’

https://gist.github.com/trevordevore/3e91724c4573690b691510d2e2dcd2a7

Does that work for you?

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps
www.screensteps.com-www.clarify-it.com
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AW: Codesigning issue with revxml.bundle in LC 8

[Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode]

Hi Mark,

thank you for that helpful link.
After I gave rwx permission to the files with chmod I could successfully use
xattr -cr, whereafter I could "successfully" codesign my app without error.
But verifying the codesigning with spctl it shows me the error "a sealed
resource is missing or invalid" It doesn't show any hint, what resource is
missing. (I have a valentinadb, some rev bundles and some files included in
my app bundle).
Has anybody any idea on how to drill down what is missing here (what was no
problem on OS X 10.11)?
Any hints appreciated
Tiemo

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag
von Mark Waddingham via use-livecode
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 5. Januar 2017 12:53
An: How to use LiveCode 
Cc: Mark Waddingham 
Betreff: Re: Codesigning issue with revxml.bundle in LC 8

Hi Tiemo,

> On MacOS Sierra I am just trying to codesign a new version with LC
> 8.1.2 of
> an old program, which I have codesigned successfully in the past.
> 
> I do the codesigning manually via terminal like: codesign -s 
> "myCertificateName" --deep --force myApp
> 
> Today I get the error "resource forke, Finder information, or similar 
> detritus not allowed In subcomponent: revxml.bundle" What does it want 
> me to do?

I think this is this problem:



Try doing:

   xattr -cr myApp

Before running codesign and see if it works. This command should clear out
any extended attributes on all files in your app bundle.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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Re: Codesigning issue with revxml.bundle in LC 8

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

Hi Tiemo,

On MacOS Sierra I am just trying to codesign a new version with LC 
8.1.2 of

an old program, which I have codesigned successfully in the past.

I do the codesigning manually via terminal like: codesign -s
"myCertificateName" --deep --force myApp

Today I get the error "resource forke, Finder information, or similar
detritus not allowed In subcomponent: revxml.bundle" What does it want 
me to

do?


I think this is this problem:



Try doing:

  xattr -cr myApp

Before running codesign and see if it works. This command should clear 
out any extended attributes on all files in your app bundle.


Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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Re: Codesigning issue with revxml.bundle in LC 8

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

My mind must work in an odd way because I read "codesign" as 'co-design' 
as in

team-work . . .

. . . it took me a few seconds to realise you meant 'code sign'.

It might not be a bad idea in future to make sure the way you write 
"codesign" is not open

to two interpretations.

Sorry, slightly OT.

Richmond.

On 1/5/17 1:37 pm, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode wrote:

Hello,

On MacOS Sierra I am just trying to codesign a new version with LC 8.1.2 of
an old program, which I have codesigned successfully in the past.

I do the codesigning manually via terminal like: codesign -s
"myCertificateName" --deep --force myApp

Today I get the error "resource forke, Finder information, or similar
detritus not allowed In subcomponent: revxml.bundle" What does it want me to
do?

In the past I need to delete manually the plist of the rev bundles, then it
worked. Today I get the same error with/without the revxml plist. Any idea,
what is going wrong here? I have no clue, if it is Sierra, LC 8, the rev
bundle or whatever. Any help appreciated

Tiemo

  

  

  


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Codesigning issue with revxml.bundle in LC 8

[Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode]

Hello,

On MacOS Sierra I am just trying to codesign a new version with LC 8.1.2 of
an old program, which I have codesigned successfully in the past.

I do the codesigning manually via terminal like: codesign -s
"myCertificateName" --deep --force myApp

Today I get the error "resource forke, Finder information, or similar
detritus not allowed In subcomponent: revxml.bundle" What does it want me to
do?

In the past I need to delete manually the plist of the rev bundles, then it
worked. Today I get the same error with/without the revxml plist. Any idea,
what is going wrong here? I have no clue, if it is Sierra, LC 8, the rev
bundle or whatever. Any help appreciated

Tiemo

 

 

 

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Re: OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed

[Heather Laine via use-livecode]

Folks, I have been monitoring the lists and its bounces for a few weeks. The 
problem does appear to be the notorious DMARC issue, which our list software 
does not deal well with. I have made a change to the way it handles DMARC mail 
which may or may not help with the problem. You can and I'm sure will let me 
know.

It is possible that the only real solution here is to stop using Mailman. This 
could be quite disruptive to all, but is something we will take under 
consideration. To be fair, this list has been running on this software for... 
18 years? Its not surprising if it ultimately reaches end of life as the world 
moves on.

Regards, and a Happy New Year to you all!

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 4 Jan 2017, at 22:30, Mike Bonner  wrote:
> 
> Just got kicked again.  *sigh*  Despite successfully receiving a boatload
> of messages from the list today.
> 
> On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 11:03 AM, Bob Sneidar 
> wrote:
> 
>> Fair enough, except that list servers are supposed to be configured in
>> such a way so as to get around this. A list server *should* send a separate
>> email to each user in a list, NOT one email to ALL the users in the list.
>> The latter will definitely get "DMARC'd" as spam, especially if the
>> addresses are not in the BCC field. Also, the list server *should* send the
>> emails in a throttled way, so as not to raise any flags.
>> 
>> It may be that gmail has tightened their DMARC rules, and so an adjustment
>> needs to be made in the list server to accomodate them. If this cannot be
>> done, it might be advisable to use a different domain. Mail issues like
>> this are definitely a nuisance, but in the modern age where email accounts
>> are getting compromised, providers are understandably a bit skittish.
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 3, 2017, at 09:08 , J. Landman Gay 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Found this explanation:
>>> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2015-
>> December/080211.html
>>> 
>>> It includes this:
>>> 
>>> Let us say you have 5 users on your list, user1 at aol.com, user2 at
>> aol.com, user3 at aol.com user4 at aol.com and user5 at aol.com. user1 at
>> aol.com posts a piece of mail to your list. mailman tries to deliver to
>> user2, user3, user4 and user5 @ aol.com aol says "drop dead, we don't
>> talk to you because of our DMARC policy" mail to user2 user3 user4 and
>> user5 bounces. Their bounce count is incremented.
>>> 
>>> user2 at aol.com posts a piece of mail to your list. mailman tries to
>> deliver to user1, user3, user4 and user5 @ aol.com aol says "drop dead,
>> we don't talk to you because of our DMARC policy" mail to user1 user3 user4
>> and user5 bounces. Their bounce count is incremented. and so on. Every time
>> somebody from aol sends mail to the list, it bounces for every other aol
>> member on your list. Their bounce counts increase.
>>> 
>>> One day, some message sends some of the bounce counts over the limit
>> mailman has, after which it says -- Too many bounces! I cannot deliver mail
>> to this account! Unsubscribe this person! And, because of the way things
>> have happened you get a triggering message which causes a lot of
>> unsubscribes _from the same site_.
>>> 
>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
>>> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>> subscription preferences:
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>> 
>> 
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Re: Jumping cursors

[Richmond Mathewson]

Impressive:

"added this to the 8.1.3-rc-1 
 milestone"


Has any one any idea when to expect that release?

Richmond.


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Re: Jumping cursors

[Richmond Mathewson]

Thank you: 373 wonky results!

Well, to be honest, I'm not going to wait for you and yours to sort that 
out; I shall use the list to help

me avoid wonky Unicode addresses.

On 1/5/17 1:07 pm, Mark Waddingham wrote:

On 2017-01-05 11:01, Richmond Mathewson wrote:
Ha, Ha, Ha: possibly the first time ever that it hasn't been the 
latter :)


http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19045


By 'stupid engine' do you mean the LiveCode engine, something else, or
code that has been co-opted
from elsewhere and folded into the LC engine?


Specifically the internal routine which fetches the Unicode 
'properties' for a run of characters is currently computing a 
surrogate pair's codepoint incorrectly - in this case U+0FF001 is 
being treated as U+07BC - which is an undefined codepoint and as such 
the property info being fetched (in this case, BiDi class) is undefined.



I, like a fool, had assumed that post LiveCode 7.0 the engine was,
somehow, avoiding surrogate pairs
altogether, rather than fudging around so things were *very pleasant
indeed* for people like me when
leveraging glyphs occupying Unicode areas above the first plain.

Obviously things were slightly too good to be true.


The engine does 'automatically' deal with surrogate pairs in UTF-16. 
Indeed, the fact that they exist at all in the engine's internal 
representation is generally not something the developer has to worry 
about (modulo bugs, like the one above).


You can use the codeunit chunk to access a string's individual UTF-16 
components, codepoint chunk to access a string as a sequence of actual 
codepoints, and char to access a string as a sequence of graphemes 
(approximation to what most people call 'letters' or 'characters').


Do you have any idea which other surrogate pairs it might be getting 
wrong?


Until (if ?) things get sorted out that would be a useful reference
list so as to know which Unicode slots
to avoid.


This should list all the codepoints in the SPUA-A which will cause 
directionality problems (due to incorrect property lookup):


   local tList
   repeat with tCodepoint = 0xF to 0xD
  get numToCodepoint(tCodepoint)

  local tLeading, tTrailing
  put codepointToNum(codeunit 1 of it) into tLeading
  put codepointToNum(codeunit 2 of it) into tTrailing

  local tWrongCodepoint
  put (tLeading - 0xD800) + ((tTrailing - 0xDC00)  * 2^10) into 
tWrongCodepoint


  get codepointProperty(numToCodepoint(tWrongCodepoint), "Bidi 
Class")

  if it contains "Right_To_Left" or it contains "Arabic" then
 put format("U+0x%6x has wrong bidi class - %s\n", tCodepoint, 
it) after tList

  end if
   end repeat
   put tList


Anyone who wants to mess around with this (I am on a Macintosh at the 
moment) on Windows or Linux

can download this:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/i8ba0viztujs0dq/bad%20Unicode.livecode.zip?dl=0



Writing as a lazy slob I feel no screaming urge to go back and recode
all those (0x4FFF6), (0x3EEDA)
hex codes as surrogate pairs . . .


Doing so wouldn't do you any good anyway. The bug lies in the 
processing of the string *after* it has been constructed - whether it 
is constructed directly from codepoints, or codeunits wouldn't make a 
difference.


I've submitted a PR for a fix to the problem against the 8.1 branch here:

   https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/5020


Presumably that also holds forth for the LiveCode 9 series.


Warmest Regards,

Mark.



Best, Richmond.
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Re: Jumping cursors

[Mark Waddingham]

On 2017-01-05 11:01, Richmond Mathewson wrote:
Ha, Ha, Ha: possibly the first time ever that it hasn't been the latter 
:)


http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19045


By 'stupid engine' do you mean the LiveCode engine, something else, or
code that has been co-opted
from elsewhere and folded into the LC engine?


Specifically the internal routine which fetches the Unicode 'properties' 
for a run of characters is currently computing a surrogate pair's 
codepoint incorrectly - in this case U+0FF001 is being treated as U+07BC 
- which is an undefined codepoint and as such the property info being 
fetched (in this case, BiDi class) is undefined.



I, like a fool, had assumed that post LiveCode 7.0 the engine was,
somehow, avoiding surrogate pairs
altogether, rather than fudging around so things were *very pleasant
indeed* for people like me when
leveraging glyphs occupying Unicode areas above the first plain.

Obviously things were slightly too good to be true.


The engine does 'automatically' deal with surrogate pairs in UTF-16. 
Indeed, the fact that they exist at all in the engine's internal 
representation is generally not something the developer has to worry 
about (modulo bugs, like the one above).


You can use the codeunit chunk to access a string's individual UTF-16 
components, codepoint chunk to access a string as a sequence of actual 
codepoints, and char to access a string as a sequence of graphemes 
(approximation to what most people call 'letters' or 'characters').


Do you have any idea which other surrogate pairs it might be getting 
wrong?


Until (if ?) things get sorted out that would be a useful reference
list so as to know which Unicode slots
to avoid.


This should list all the codepoints in the SPUA-A which will cause 
directionality problems (due to incorrect property lookup):


   local tList
   repeat with tCodepoint = 0xF to 0xD
  get numToCodepoint(tCodepoint)

  local tLeading, tTrailing
  put codepointToNum(codeunit 1 of it) into tLeading
  put codepointToNum(codeunit 2 of it) into tTrailing

  local tWrongCodepoint
  put (tLeading - 0xD800) + ((tTrailing - 0xDC00)  * 2^10) into 
tWrongCodepoint


  get codepointProperty(numToCodepoint(tWrongCodepoint), "Bidi 
Class")

  if it contains "Right_To_Left" or it contains "Arabic" then
 put format("U+0x%6x has wrong bidi class - %s\n", tCodepoint, 
it) after tList

  end if
   end repeat
   put tList


Writing as a lazy slob I feel no screaming urge to go back and recode
all those (0x4FFF6), (0x3EEDA)
hex codes as surrogate pairs . . .


Doing so wouldn't do you any good anyway. The bug lies in the processing 
of the string *after* it has been constructed - whether it is 
constructed directly from codepoints, or codeunits wouldn't make a 
difference.


I've submitted a PR for a fix to the problem against the 8.1 branch 
here:


   https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/5020

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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Re: standalone settings .zip

[Keith Martin]

On 5 Jan 2017, at 10:14, Thierry Douez wrote:

> the zip command line utility (in Terminal)  can do this:
>
> zip Targetdir.zip -x \*.DS_Store -r Sourcedir
>
> This can be executed with the LC shell() function...

Sweet! That's really good to know, thanks. :)

k


---

Keith Martin
Senior Lecturer, LCC (University of the Arts London)
Technical Editor, MacUser magazine (1997-2015)
http://PanoramaPhotographer.com
http://thatkeith.com
+44 (0)7909541365

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Re: Jumping cursors

[Richmond Mathewson]

Thanks for a very clear explanation.

On 1/5/17 11:19 am, Mark Waddingham wrote:

On 2017-01-05 09:56, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

Um: this could be a "stupid Richmond" case rather than anything else
as I populated cells FF001
to FF01E with Grantha Samyuktaksharas: and those in FF002 and so on
behave perfectly well;


This is a case of 'stupid engine', rather than 'stupid Richmond':


Ha, Ha, Ha: possibly the first time ever that it hasn't been the latter :)


http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19045


By 'stupid engine' do you mean the LiveCode engine, something else, or 
code that has been co-opted

from elsewhere and folded into the LC engine?



The implementation of the bidi algorithm in the engine is currently 
computing surrogate pairs incorrectly. 


"The implementation of the bidi algorithm" . . . ouch.

Aah . . . "bidi" means 'BIDIrectional'

Obviously something rather jazzier than my feevle effort: 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rlw0t1ymwoghq5q/SURROGATER.rev.zip?dl=0


I, like a fool, had assumed that post LiveCode 7.0 the engine was, 
somehow, avoiding surrogate pairs
altogether, rather than fudging around so things were *very pleasant 
indeed* for people like me when

leveraging glyphs occupying Unicode areas above the first plain.

Obviously things were slightly too good to be true.

In this case, 0xFF001 is being read as a character in the arabic 
script area in the BMP which has the 'Arabic RTL' attribute. This 
means that it is being treated as an RTL character when it should not be.


Do you have any idea which other surrogate pairs it might be getting wrong?

Until (if ?) things get sorted out that would be a useful reference list 
so as to know which Unicode slots

to avoid.

Writing as a lazy slob I feel no screaming urge to go back and recode 
all those (0x4FFF6), (0x3EEDA)

hex codes as surrogate pairs . . .


but FF001 could be a non-character which I had overlooked: If one 
goes here:


http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/UF.pdf

information regarding FF001 is not much use . . .

The Range: F - F is the Unicode Supplementary Private Use
Area-A; a bit like that area
in New Mexico.

Although "The entire plane is dedicated to private use with the
exception of the last two code points."
would seem to imply that FF001 should cause me no problems.


Indeed - end user applications are free to use SPUA-A and SPUA-B for 
whatever purpose they wish... With the only caveat that two uses of 
said areas might be completely incompatible. (i.e. a font designed for 
use in one application which uses these areas, might break horribly in 
an app which uses the area for a completely different purpose).


My Devawriter Pro application depends on my Devawriter.ttf font which 
employs all 3 Private Use Areas to
deliver the conjunct consonants used in the Indian writing systems used 
to write Sanskrit.


In fact I have spent nearly as much time developing my font as I have on 
the Devawriter Pro application itself.


Obviously my font is not going to be much use outwith my application 
beyond displaying

HTML, RTF and PDF documents derived from the application.



Warmest Regards,

Mark.


Best,

Richmond.
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Re: Jumping cursors

[Mark Waddingham]

On 2017-01-05 09:56, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

Um: this could be a "stupid Richmond" case rather than anything else
as I populated cells FF001
to FF01E with Grantha Samyuktaksharas: and those in FF002 and so on
behave perfectly well;


This is a case of 'stupid engine', rather than 'stupid Richmond':

http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19045

The implementation of the bidi algorithm in the engine is currently 
computing surrogate pairs incorrectly. In this case, 0xFF001 is being 
read as a character in the arabic script area in the BMP which has the 
'Arabic RTL' attribute. This means that it is being treated as an RTL 
character when it should not be.


but FF001 could be a non-character which I had overlooked: If one goes 
here:


http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/UF.pdf

information regarding FF001 is not much use . . .

The Range: F - F is the Unicode Supplementary Private Use
Area-A; a bit like that area
in New Mexico.

Although "The entire plane is dedicated to private use with the
exception of the last two code points."
would seem to imply that FF001 should cause me no problems.


Indeed - end user applications are free to use SPUA-A and SPUA-B for 
whatever purpose they wish... With the only caveat that two uses of said 
areas might be completely incompatible. (i.e. a font designed for use in 
one application which uses these areas, might break horribly in an app 
which uses the area for a completely different purpose).


Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
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LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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Re: Jumping cursors

[Richmond Mathewson]

Um: this could be a "stupid Richmond" case rather than anything else as 
I populated cells FF001
to FF01E with Grantha Samyuktaksharas: and those in FF002 and so on 
behave perfectly well;
but FF001 could be a non-character which I had overlooked: If one goes 
here:


http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/UF.pdf

information regarding FF001 is not much use . . .

The Range: F - F is the Unicode Supplementary Private Use 
Area-A; a bit like that area

in New Mexico.

Although "The entire plane is dedicated to private use with the 
exception of the last two code points."

would seem to imply that FF001 should cause me no problems.

The difficulty with Unicode is that as it is a standard that is always 
changing, and that document about
the Unicode Supplementary Private Use Area-A is from Unicode version 6 
(the current one is version 9).


So, back to the font editor and shift that character down to the other 
end of the list . . .


The Unicode convention's website suffers from a prolixity that largely 
serves to obfuscate rather than

explain, indulging in long sentences full of Latin neologisms.

Richmond.

On 1/5/17 10:36 am, Ali Lloyd wrote:

0xFF001 appears to be an invalid unicode character, residing in the private
use area. When I try

set the text of the selectedText to numToCodepoint(0xff001)

The text is replaced by a character that LiveCode appears to think is RTL,
and the cursor splits as it does when placed 'ahead' of an RTL character in
mixed text. If you replace all the text of a line with it, it will
therefore place the cursor to the left of the character.

Whether this is a bug or not depends on whether 0xFF001 *should* be treated
as RTL or not. I kind of suspect it isn't, but making sure codepoints from
the private use area behave correctly in a field is unlikely to be a high
priority fix, unless you have a good reason for doing it!

On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 11:49 PM Kay C Lan  wrote:


On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 5:26 AM, J. Landman Gay 
wrote:

I'm a little surprised that works at all. The "selectedtext" returns a
string, not a position. I'd use "selectedChunk" which would provide a
character location, enabling you to set the cursor at a specific

position.
Whilst your definitions of 'selectedText' and 'selectedChunk' are
correct, the fact is that 'set the text of the selectedText to "abc"'
does replace whatever text you've hilited with whatever text you've
specified regardless of whether the text you've hilighted is a long
string, a short string or an empty string. The 'normal' result of
doing such is that the cursor ends up and the right hand end of the
new text, but apparently not so if the new text is
numToCodePoint(0xFF001)

I think Richmond should file a Bug report because it does seem he's
found an anomaly, or at the very least, if there is a valid reason why
this is the case for 0xFF001 (and possibly others) then maybe a Note
in the Dictionary describing this situation would be useful.

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Re: Jumping cursors

[Ali Lloyd]

0xFF001 appears to be an invalid unicode character, residing in the private
use area. When I try
> set the text of the selectedText to numToCodepoint(0xff001)
The text is replaced by a character that LiveCode appears to think is RTL,
and the cursor splits as it does when placed 'ahead' of an RTL character in
mixed text. If you replace all the text of a line with it, it will
therefore place the cursor to the left of the character.

Whether this is a bug or not depends on whether 0xFF001 *should* be treated
as RTL or not. I kind of suspect it isn't, but making sure codepoints from
the private use area behave correctly in a field is unlikely to be a high
priority fix, unless you have a good reason for doing it!

On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 11:49 PM Kay C Lan  wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 5:26 AM, J. Landman Gay 
> wrote:
> >
> > I'm a little surprised that works at all. The "selectedtext" returns a
> > string, not a position. I'd use "selectedChunk" which would provide a
> > character location, enabling you to set the cursor at a specific
> position.
> >
> Whilst your definitions of 'selectedText' and 'selectedChunk' are
> correct, the fact is that 'set the text of the selectedText to "abc"'
> does replace whatever text you've hilited with whatever text you've
> specified regardless of whether the text you've hilighted is a long
> string, a short string or an empty string. The 'normal' result of
> doing such is that the cursor ends up and the right hand end of the
> new text, but apparently not so if the new text is
> numToCodePoint(0xFF001)
>
> I think Richmond should file a Bug report because it does seem he's
> found an anomaly, or at the very least, if there is a valid reason why
> this is the case for 0xFF001 (and possibly others) then maybe a Note
> in the Dictionary describing this situation would be useful.
>
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