Re: Seeking philosophical guidance on library interface design.

2019-04-23 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
R is among the world's most popular tools for this.  When in doubt, 
following their proven popular designs would seem a good bet.


R's plot function is a thing of beauty.

Their default is to produce the most commonly-used result. You can even 
pass nothing but data to it and get a very useful result.


Using named vars (which in LC may make more sense as an array), each arg 
you add to the call overrides one of those defaults.


The range of options is vast.  No one expects you to even attempt them 
all of course, but if you adopt this model it may make it easier for 
others to add property overrides as needed.



To get you started, their docs and a brief tutorial:

plot function | R Documentation
https://www.rdocumentation.org/packages/graphics/versions/3.5.3/topics/plot

Producing Simple Graphs with R
https://www.rdocumentation.org/packages/graphics/versions/3.5.3/topics/plot

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems


Alex Tweedly wrote:
I'm building a library (which I plan to release as Open Source), and I'm 
having trouble trying to decide which approach to take with default values.


The library is to produce XY graphs (charts). An app which is using it 
will provide one or more sets of data to be plotted. The app can also 
*optionally* provide additional parameters, such as


  - display tick-marks on each axis

  - display grid lines along each axis

  - label the ticks / grids (e.g. display label every 5 ticks)

etc.

Without going into each one of them, there is an overall "phlosophy" chioce

A - should the default be that the produced graph be simple (e.g. no 
ticks, no labels, etc.)


or

B  - should the default be to try to find reasonable / possible values 
(e.g. set a value for ticks such that they appear, say, more than 10 
pixels apart, but less than 100 pixels apart; that you label every 
2nd-5th tick, ...)


A is appealing because it means that the library isn't making guesses, 
often dumb guesses, on your behalf; you see a blank, sparse graph, and 
can then, as app developer, provide additional parameters to supply info 
you think will help. But it is unappealing because the graphs are just 
*so* empty by default.


B is appealing because it feels like it is being helpful, and will (try 
to) produce a reasonable looking graph as best it can.



So - I'd welcome any suggestions, comments, design philosophy ideas ?

Thanks

Alex.




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Re: specialFolderPath("preferences") returns empty on Windows???

2019-04-23 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 

Mark Wieder wrote:

On 4/23/19 11:25 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:

Bob Sneidar wrote:

 > NVM I just read further. Preferences is not one I can use for Windows.

The bad news is that, as you've discovered, Windows has no "Preferences" 
folder per se.


The good news is that it does have a commonly-used place for that sort 
of thing, and that LC's specialFolderPath function allows passing in OS 
constants for all sorts of things.


In your case try specialFolderPath(26)

Others are documented here, where Ken Ray took the time to explore as 
many as he could find on Mac and Windows at the time:


http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/livecode/tips/file010.htm



Some reason why specialFolderPath("preferences") on Windows doesn't just 
return the value for specialFolderPath(26)? Yeah... I know... it would 
be a synonym and we can't have those, but sheesh...


It seems a philosophical problem:  though a folder exists for the same 
purpose, it isn't "Preferences".


I'm with you, though: ease of use > literal linguistic purity.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Seeking philosophical guidance on library interface design.

2019-04-23 Thread Mark Wieder via use-livecode 

On 4/23/19 4:19 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:

My thinking is to ask what visual impact if any would having the extra 
attributes have? Is there a scenario where the graphs would be created so small 
that the extras would be visually unappealing? Also, I think less to start with 
is better, because adding more features makes the end user feel like he's 
getting a bonus!


I agree that I would go with option A for the default. But I'd also have 
somewhere a "fill in some reasonable defaults for me" checkbox as the 
next step toward fully customizing the output.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: Seeking philosophical guidance on library interface design.

2019-04-23 Thread Tom Glod via use-livecode 
interesting thread.  sounds like a useful library. * watching * thanks Alex

On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 7:19 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> My thinking is to ask what visual impact if any would having the extra
> attributes have? Is there a scenario where the graphs would be created so
> small that the extras would be visually unappealing? Also, I think less to
> start with is better, because adding more features makes the end user feel
> like he's getting a bonus!
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Apr 23, 2019, at 16:01 , Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > I'm building a library (which I plan to release as Open Source), and I'm
> having trouble trying to decide which approach to take with default values.
> >
> > The library is to produce XY graphs (charts). An app which is using it
> will provide one or more sets of data to be plotted. The app can also
> *optionally* provide additional parameters, such as
> >
> >  - display tick-marks on each axis
> >
> >  - display grid lines along each axis
> >
> >  - label the ticks / grids (e.g. display label every 5 ticks)
> >
> > etc.
> >
> > Without going into each one of them, there is an overall "phlosophy"
> chioce
> >
> > A - should the default be that the produced graph be simple (e.g. no
> ticks, no labels, etc.)
> >
> > or
> >
> > B  - should the default be to try to find reasonable / possible values
> (e.g. set a value for ticks such that they appear, say, more than 10 pixels
> apart, but less than 100 pixels apart; that you label every 2nd-5th tick,
> ...)
> >
> > A is appealing because it means that the library isn't making guesses,
> often dumb guesses, on your behalf; you see a blank, sparse graph, and can
> then, as app developer, provide additional parameters to supply info you
> think will help. But it is unappealing because the graphs are just *so*
> empty by default.
> >
> > B is appealing because it feels like it is being helpful, and will (try
> to) produce a reasonable looking graph as best it can.
> >
> >
> > So - I'd welcome any suggestions, comments, design philosophy ideas ?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Alex.
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> subscription preferences:
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Re: specialFolderPath("preferences") returns empty on Windows???

2019-04-23 Thread Mark Wieder via use-livecode 

On 4/23/19 11:25 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:

Bob Sneidar wrote:

 > NVM I just read further. Preferences is not one I can use for Windows.

The bad news is that, as you've discovered, Windows has no "Preferences" 
folder per se.


The good news is that it does have a commonly-used place for that sort 
of thing, and that LC's specialFolderPath function allows passing in OS 
constants for all sorts of things.


In your case try specialFolderPath(26)

Others are documented here, where Ken Ray took the time to explore as 
many as he could find on Mac and Windows at the time:


http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/livecode/tips/file010.htm



Some reason why specialFolderPath("preferences") on Windows doesn't just 
return the value for specialFolderPath(26)? Yeah... I know... it would 
be a synonym and we can't have those, but sheesh...


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: Seeking philosophical guidance on library interface design.

2019-04-23 Thread Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
My thinking is to ask what visual impact if any would having the extra 
attributes have? Is there a scenario where the graphs would be created so small 
that the extras would be visually unappealing? Also, I think less to start with 
is better, because adding more features makes the end user feel like he's 
getting a bonus! 

Bob S


> On Apr 23, 2019, at 16:01 , Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> I'm building a library (which I plan to release as Open Source), and I'm 
> having trouble trying to decide which approach to take with default values.
> 
> The library is to produce XY graphs (charts). An app which is using it will 
> provide one or more sets of data to be plotted. The app can also *optionally* 
> provide additional parameters, such as
> 
>  - display tick-marks on each axis
> 
>  - display grid lines along each axis
> 
>  - label the ticks / grids (e.g. display label every 5 ticks)
> 
> etc.
> 
> Without going into each one of them, there is an overall "phlosophy" chioce
> 
> A - should the default be that the produced graph be simple (e.g. no ticks, 
> no labels, etc.)
> 
> or
> 
> B  - should the default be to try to find reasonable / possible values (e.g. 
> set a value for ticks such that they appear, say, more than 10 pixels apart, 
> but less than 100 pixels apart; that you label every 2nd-5th tick, ...)
> 
> A is appealing because it means that the library isn't making guesses, often 
> dumb guesses, on your behalf; you see a blank, sparse graph, and can then, as 
> app developer, provide additional parameters to supply info you think will 
> help. But it is unappealing because the graphs are just *so* empty by default.
> 
> B is appealing because it feels like it is being helpful, and will (try to) 
> produce a reasonable looking graph as best it can.
> 
> 
> So - I'd welcome any suggestions, comments, design philosophy ideas ?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Alex.
> 
> 
> 
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
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Seeking philosophical guidance on library interface design.

2019-04-23 Thread Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 

Hi folks,

I'm building a library (which I plan to release as Open Source), and I'm 
having trouble trying to decide which approach to take with default values.


The library is to produce XY graphs (charts). An app which is using it 
will provide one or more sets of data to be plotted. The app can also 
*optionally* provide additional parameters, such as


 - display tick-marks on each axis

 - display grid lines along each axis

 - label the ticks / grids (e.g. display label every 5 ticks)

etc.

Without going into each one of them, there is an overall "phlosophy" chioce

A - should the default be that the produced graph be simple (e.g. no 
ticks, no labels, etc.)


or

B  - should the default be to try to find reasonable / possible values 
(e.g. set a value for ticks such that they appear, say, more than 10 
pixels apart, but less than 100 pixels apart; that you label every 
2nd-5th tick, ...)


A is appealing because it means that the library isn't making guesses, 
often dumb guesses, on your behalf; you see a blank, sparse graph, and 
can then, as app developer, provide additional parameters to supply info 
you think will help. But it is unappealing because the graphs are just 
*so* empty by default.


B is appealing because it feels like it is being helpful, and will (try 
to) produce a reasonable looking graph as best it can.



So - I'd welcome any suggestions, comments, design philosophy ideas ?

Thanks

Alex.



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Re: Open Printing to PDF

2019-04-23 Thread Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
Not all my doing. Got help from a number of people on this list who I am too 
senile to recall now. ;-)

Bob S


> On Apr 23, 2019, at 11:35 , General 2018 via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Very nice !
> 


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Re: Open Printing to PDF

2019-04-23 Thread Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
That should read:

sample: put cleanASCII("This is a test!<>?", "uppercase,lowercase,custom", "?"


> On Apr 23, 2019, at 11:24 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
>   sample: put cleanASCII("This is a test!<>?", "uppercase,lowercase", "?"


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RE: Open Printing to PDF

2019-04-23 Thread General 2018 via use-livecode 
Very nice !

-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
Sent: 23 April 2019 19:24
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Bob Sneidar
Subject: Re: Open Printing to PDF

This may help to clean up all kinds of badness in text used for a number of 
things: 

function cleanASCII pString, pModeList, pCustomList
   /*
   pModeList is a comma delimited list that may contain the following values:
   "lowercase,uppercase,numbers,tabs,newlines,returns,spaces,symbols,custom"
   If custom is used, then a third paramaeter containing allowed characters 
must be supplied. 
   sample: put cleanASCII("This is a test!<>?", "uppercase,lowercase", "?"
   returns: "This is a test?"
   */
   if pModeList is empty then
  put " 0-9a-zA-Z" into tAllowedChars
   end if
   
   repeat for each item pMode in pModeList
  put word 1 of pMode into pMode
  
  switch
break
 case "tabs" is in pMode
put "\t" after tAllowedChars
break
 case "newlines" is in pMode
put "\n" before tAllowedChars
break
 case "returns" is in pMode
put "\r" before tAllowedChars -- currently not working
break
 case "spaces" is in pMode
put " " after tAllowedChars
break
 case "numbers" is in pMode
put "0-9" after tAllowedChars
break
 case "lowercase" is in pMode
put "a-z" after tAllowedChars
break
 case "uppercase" is in pMode
put "A-Z" after tAllowedChars
break
 case "symbols" is in pMode
put "!#$%&'()*+,./:;<=>?@[\\_`{|}~^-" after tAllowedChars
break
 case pMode is "custom"
put pCustomList after tAllowedChars
break
  end switch
   end repeat
   
   put "[" & tAllowedChars & "]" into tMatchText
   
   repeat for each character  theChar in pString
  if matchtext(theChar, tMatchText) is true then
 put theChar after cleanString
  end if
   end repeat
   
   return cleanString
end cleanASCII

> On Apr 23, 2019, at 11:00 , General 2018 via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Not a bug - my fault !!
> 
> The part of the heading text for the pdf is used for the saved filename which 
> cannot be  ">" ! of course ...
> 
> The issue was the file save naming not open printing to pdf command , your 
> replies made me look for odd characters.
> 
> Regards
> Cam


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Re: specialFolderPath("preferences") returns empty on Windows???

2019-04-23 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 

Bob Sneidar wrote:

> NVM I just read further. Preferences is not one I can use for Windows.

The bad news is that, as you've discovered, Windows has no "Preferences" 
folder per se.


The good news is that it does have a commonly-used place for that sort 
of thing, and that LC's specialFolderPath function allows passing in OS 
constants for all sorts of things.


In your case try specialFolderPath(26)

Others are documented here, where Ken Ray took the time to explore as 
many as he could find on Mac and Windows at the time:


http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/livecode/tips/file010.htm

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Open Printing to PDF

2019-04-23 Thread Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
This may help to clean up all kinds of badness in text used for a number of 
things: 

function cleanASCII pString, pModeList, pCustomList
   /*
   pModeList is a comma delimited list that may contain the following values:
   "lowercase,uppercase,numbers,tabs,newlines,returns,spaces,symbols,custom"
   If custom is used, then a third paramaeter containing allowed characters 
must be supplied. 
   sample: put cleanASCII("This is a test!<>?", "uppercase,lowercase", "?"
   returns: "This is a test?"
   */
   if pModeList is empty then
  put " 0-9a-zA-Z" into tAllowedChars
   end if
   
   repeat for each item pMode in pModeList
  put word 1 of pMode into pMode
  
  switch
break
 case "tabs" is in pMode
put "\t" after tAllowedChars
break
 case "newlines" is in pMode
put "\n" before tAllowedChars
break
 case "returns" is in pMode
put "\r" before tAllowedChars -- currently not working
break
 case "spaces" is in pMode
put " " after tAllowedChars
break
 case "numbers" is in pMode
put "0-9" after tAllowedChars
break
 case "lowercase" is in pMode
put "a-z" after tAllowedChars
break
 case "uppercase" is in pMode
put "A-Z" after tAllowedChars
break
 case "symbols" is in pMode
put "!#$%&'()*+,./:;<=>?@[\\_`{|}~^-" after tAllowedChars
break
 case pMode is "custom"
put pCustomList after tAllowedChars
break
  end switch
   end repeat
   
   put "[" & tAllowedChars & "]" into tMatchText
   
   repeat for each character  theChar in pString
  if matchtext(theChar, tMatchText) is true then
 put theChar after cleanString
  end if
   end repeat
   
   return cleanString
end cleanASCII

> On Apr 23, 2019, at 11:00 , General 2018 via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Not a bug - my fault !!
> 
> The part of the heading text for the pdf is used for the saved filename which 
> cannot be  ">" ! of course ...
> 
> The issue was the file save naming not open printing to pdf command , your 
> replies made me look for odd characters.
> 
> Regards
> Cam


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RE: Open Printing to PDF

2019-04-23 Thread General 2018 via use-livecode 
Not a bug - my fault !!

The part of the heading text for the pdf is used for the saved filename which 
cannot be  ">" ! of course ...

The issue was the file save naming not open printing to pdf command , your 
replies made me look for odd characters.

Regards
Cam

-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
General 2018 via use-livecode
Sent: 23 April 2019 18:50
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: General 2018
Subject: Open Printing to PDF

Scott , Craig 

It would not save the pdf and the text was different for each stack.

The failing stack had ">" within the text , once removed the pdf saved !! 
cheers guys .

Is this a bug ?

Regards
Cam

-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
dunbarxx via use-livecode
Sent: 23 April 2019 13:56
To: use-revolut...@lists.runrev.com
Cc: dunbarxx
Subject: Re: Open Printing to PDF

Hi.

Are you saying the "open printing to pdf" command itself does not work, or
that you get blank output? In other words, in the stack that does NOT work,
what happens if you:

  open printing to pdf "yourFilePathHere/xxx.pdf"
 revPrintText "Hello world" 
  close printing

This will eliminate any of the issues Scott mentioned, since you are using
simple text. But does a pdf appear on the desktop, and does it contain
"Hello World"?

Craig Newman



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Open Printing to PDF

2019-04-23 Thread General 2018 via use-livecode 
Scott , Craig 

It would not save the pdf and the text was different for each stack.

The failing stack had ">" within the text , once removed the pdf saved !! 
cheers guys .

Is this a bug ?

Regards
Cam

-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
dunbarxx via use-livecode
Sent: 23 April 2019 13:56
To: use-revolut...@lists.runrev.com
Cc: dunbarxx
Subject: Re: Open Printing to PDF

Hi.

Are you saying the "open printing to pdf" command itself does not work, or
that you get blank output? In other words, in the stack that does NOT work,
what happens if you:

  open printing to pdf "yourFilePathHere/xxx.pdf"
 revPrintText "Hello world" 
  close printing

This will eliminate any of the issues Scott mentioned, since you are using
simple text. But does a pdf appear on the desktop, and does it contain
"Hello World"?

Craig Newman



--
Sent from: 
http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html

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Re: specialFolderPath("preferences") returns empty on Windows???

2019-04-23 Thread Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
NVM I just read further. Preferences is not one I can use for Windows. 

Bob S


> On Apr 23, 2019, at 08:06 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Sorry, Win 7 and LC 9.0.2
> 
> 
>> On Apr 23, 2019, at 08:06 , Bob Sneidar  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all. Subject line says it all. On Mac it returns for me: 
>> "/Users/bobsneidar/Library/Preferences"
>> 
>> I copy/paste the command into LC for Windows message box it returns empty! 
>> That explains why my preferences are not working for Windows!!!
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: specialFolderPath("preferences") returns empty on Windows???

2019-04-23 Thread Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
Sorry, Win 7 and LC 9.0.2


> On Apr 23, 2019, at 08:06 , Bob Sneidar  wrote:
> 
> Hi all. Subject line says it all. On Mac it returns for me: 
> "/Users/bobsneidar/Library/Preferences"
> 
> I copy/paste the command into LC for Windows message box it returns empty! 
> That explains why my preferences are not working for Windows!!!
> 
> Bob S
> 


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specialFolderPath("preferences") returns empty on Windows???

2019-04-23 Thread Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
Hi all. Subject line says it all. On Mac it returns for me: 
"/Users/bobsneidar/Library/Preferences"

I copy/paste the command into LC for Windows message box it returns empty! That 
explains why my preferences are not working for Windows!!!

Bob S


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[ANN] This Week in LiveCode 175

2019-04-23 Thread panagiotis merakos via use-livecode 
Hi all,

Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source
community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter!

Read issue #175 here: http://bit.ly/2Vf7ILv

This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been
going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be
released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will
deliver each issue directly to you e-mail, so you don't miss any!

If you have anything you'd like mentioned (a project, a discussion
somewhere, an upcoming event) then please get in touch.


-- 
Panagiotis Merakos 
LiveCode Software Developer

Everyone Can Create Apps 
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Re: "do as 'LiveCode Server'"?

2019-04-23 Thread Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode 
Agreed that this would have "serious" positive benefits. I imagine  at least 
one use case where input at the UX/UI level would fork the "narrative" response 
from your script in different directions. It would be so easy to write!

BR

Richard Gaskin  

You can write:


Here's some text

Here's some other text


It would be ideal to have the merge function outfitted with this sort of 
logic handling, but there may be backwards-compatibility issues I'm not 
thinking of.

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Re: Open Printing to PDF

2019-04-23 Thread dunbarxx via use-livecode 
Hi.

Are you saying the "open printing to pdf" command itself does not work, or
that you get blank output? In other words, in the stack that does NOT work,
what happens if you:

  open printing to pdf "yourFilePathHere/xxx.pdf"
 revPrintText "Hello world" 
  close printing

This will eliminate any of the issues Scott mentioned, since you are using
simple text. But does a pdf appear on the desktop, and does it contain
"Hello World"?

Craig Newman



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