Re: Realtime sound generation in LC

[Stephen Barncard via use-livecode]

a few years ago I got into trying to export audio files imbedded inside
Livecode to wave and aif and I got it to work, but just dealing with the
pointers and grokking how Livecode stored audio was a challenge.  I didn't
try any processing.

The late Mark Smith was way ahead of me and even had a waveform display and
a traveling cursor line on playback it was brilliant. I think his
stacks are still online somewhere. We were going to collaborate before he
died. this way back about 2007 when I was still working for Mike Markkula
and Jerry Jensen.  I have my stacks around somewhere but it stopped working
at some version I can't remember. My notes aren't human readable.

I started that because I had uncompressed audio files trapped inside rev
stacks but there was no way to export audio built in. I always thought that
was odd.
--
Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
mixstream.org


On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 10:43 PM jbv via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi list,
>
> I was wondering if it could be possible to generate sound
> in real time with LC. I don't mean to play a sound file,
> but to put together samples at a certain sample rate
> (like 44.1 or 45 KHz) and output them, while changing
> some parameters like signal frequency or amplitude.
>
> I am currently exploring the generation of wav files
> with LC for play back, but am much more interested in
> real time generation & manipulation.
> I'm sure other environments could be more suitable for
> such a project, but the fact that LC is great for building
> sophisticated interfaces makes me feel like trying...
> Probably an external is the way to go...
>
> Any ideas ?
> Thanks in advance.
> jbv
>
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Realtime sound generation in LC

[jbv via use-livecode]

Hi list,

I was wondering if it could be possible to generate sound
in real time with LC. I don't mean to play a sound file,
but to put together samples at a certain sample rate
(like 44.1 or 45 KHz) and output them, while changing
some parameters like signal frequency or amplitude.

I am currently exploring the generation of wav files
with LC for play back, but am much more interested in
real time generation & manipulation.
I'm sure other environments could be more suitable for
such a project, but the fact that LC is great for building
sophisticated interfaces makes me feel like trying...
Probably an external is the way to go...

Any ideas ?
Thanks in advance.
jbv

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Re: Design questions...

[Tom Glod via use-livecode]

Glen,

Just to add to whats already been said...

Your app can run at full screen mode or in a window.
Your app can resize and reposition the controls as the window is resized.
(using very simple commands inside a resizestack handler), so instead of
worrying about monitor size, you can make it responsive.  Its a bit of
extra work, but not that much, and worth doing.
Making scrollbars appear if needed is trivial.
The key is to plan your interface into groups, and think about what you
will need ahead of time.
Use "shared" groups that appear on each card. eg a group called
"navigation" with all navigation buttons in it.
You can create a beautiful, responsive, clean interfaces using livecode.
That I know for sure.  Easily.

All the best on your project. feel free to pm me if u need help.





On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 2:47 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I ran into this too concerning the "effective" keyword. The dictionary
> says,
>
> "Adding the effective adjective to either form returns the area of the
> screen the application has to itself. In particular, if the keyboard is
> activated, it take into account if the keyboard is taking up space on the
> screen. (Android and iOS only)"
>
> I'm not sure if that means that the keyword can only be used with Android
> or iOS, or if it means that statement about the keyboard taking up the
> screen only applies to Android or iOS (as opposed to say a Windows tablet).
>
> Looking up the "effective" keyword seems to indicate that it returns the
> inherited property of an object. It does not list screenRect(s) as valid.
> But it seems (and I'm not complaining, just observing) that getting the
> effective screenRect of say a stack or a card would never occur to me.
>
> > On Jun 6, 2019, at 10:39 , Richmond via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Here's a silly thought that may help a bit . . .
> >
> > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32683
> >
> > Richmond.
>
>
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Re: Date and time

[Glen Bojsza via use-livecode]

Craig,

Well done...not over done.

I hope you’re out from under your desk.

Glen

On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 6:18 PM dunbarxx via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Feel like I am overdoing this, but a bit more compact:
>
> on mouseUp
>put "06-Jun-2019;09:05:21" into rawTime -- your formatted moment here
>
>set the itemDel to "-"
>put item 1 of rawTime into tDay
>put  itemOffset(item 2 of
> rawTime,"Jan,Feb,Mar,Apr,May,Jun,Jul,Aug,Sep,Oct,Nov,Dec") into tMonth
>put item 3 of rawTime into temp
>set the itemDel to ";"
>put item 1 of temp into tYear
>delete item 1 of temp
>set the itemDel to ":"
>put item 1 of temp into tHour
>put item 2 of temp into tMinutes
>put item 3 of temp into tSeconds
>
>put tYear & "," & tMonth & "," & tDay & "," & tHour & "," & tMinutes &
> "," & tSeconds & "," & tDay into standardFormat
>convert standardFormat from dateItems to seconds
>answer standardFormat
> end mouseUp
>
> Brute force for sure. My favorite.
>
> Craig
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from:
> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html
>
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Re: Date and time

[dunbarxx via use-livecode]

Feel like I am overdoing this, but a bit more compact:

on mouseUp
   put "06-Jun-2019;09:05:21" into rawTime -- your formatted moment here
   
   set the itemDel to "-"
   put item 1 of rawTime into tDay
   put  itemOffset(item 2 of
rawTime,"Jan,Feb,Mar,Apr,May,Jun,Jul,Aug,Sep,Oct,Nov,Dec") into tMonth
   put item 3 of rawTime into temp
   set the itemDel to ";"
   put item 1 of temp into tYear
   delete item 1 of temp
   set the itemDel to ":"
   put item 1 of temp into tHour
   put item 2 of temp into tMinutes
   put item 3 of temp into tSeconds
   
   put tYear & "," & tMonth & "," & tDay & "," & tHour & "," & tMinutes &
"," & tSeconds & "," & tDay into standardFormat
   convert standardFormat from dateItems to seconds
   answer standardFormat
end mouseUp

Brute force for sure. My favorite.

Craig




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Re: Date and time

[dunbarxx via use-livecode]

And we should not be sloppy about using a function to display the answer,
rather to return a value and let the calling handler do that. But I was
avoiding actually working when I snuck this in, so I was typing from under
my desk.

Craig



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Re: Date and time

[dunbarxx via use-livecode]

OF course you would need a little better than the last, so the DOW is not
just entered by me for testing:

on mouseUp
   put "06-Jun-2019;09:05:21" into rawTime
   put dissectRawTime(rawTime)  into tSeconds
   convert rawTime to seconds
end mouseUp

function dissectRawTime rawtime
   get the long date ; convert it to dateItems
   
   set the itemDel to "-"
   put item 1 of rawTime into tDay
   put getMonth(item 2 of rawTime) into tMonth
   put item 3 of rawTime into temp
   set the itemDel to ";"
   put item 1 of temp into tYear
   delete item 1 of temp
   set the itemDel to ":"
   put item 1 of temp into tHour
   put item 2 of temp into tMinutes
   put item 3 of temp into tSeconds
   
   put tYear & "," & tMonth & "," & tDay & "," & tHour & "," & tMinutes &
"," & tSeconds & "," & tDay into standardFormat
   convert standardFormat from dateItems to seconds
   answer standardFormat
end dissectRawTime

function getMonth tMonth
   return
itemOffset(tMonth,"Jan,Feb,Mar,Apr,May,Jun,Jul,Aug,Sep,Oct,Nov,Dec")
end getMonth



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Re: Date and time

[dunbarxx via use-livecode]

Try this in a button script somewhere"

on mouseUp
   put "06-Jun-2019;09:05:21" into rawTime
   put dissectRawTime(rawTime)  into tSeconds
   convert rawTime to seconds
end mouseUp

function dissectRawTime rawtime
   get the long date ; convert it to dateItems
   
   set the itemDel to "-"
   put item 1 of rawTime into tDay
   put getMonth(item 2 of rawTime) into tMonth
   put item 3 of rawTime into temp
   set the itemDel to ";"
   put item 1 of temp into tYear
   delete item 1 of temp
   set the itemDel to ":"
   put item 1 of temp into tHour
   put item 2 of temp into tMinutes
   put item 3 of temp into tSeconds
   
   put tYear & "," & tMonth & "," & tDay & "," & tHour & "," & tMinutes &
"," & tSeconds & "," & "5" into standardFormat
   convert standardFormat from dateItems to seconds
end dissectRawTime

function getMonth tMonth
   return
itemOffset(tMonth,"Jan,Feb,Mar,Apr,May,Jun,Jul,Aug,Sep,Oct,Nov,Dec")
end getMonth



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Re: Date and time

[Glen Bojsza via use-livecode]

Obviously I overthought this (thanks Bob)...I was trying to convert the
time separately and then the date and combining them which was leading to
issues.

The dictionary format example doesn't show this as being a solution...

Glen

On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 2:54 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> First of all that date cannot be converted in that format. Secondly, try
> convert "Jun 6 2019 09:05:21" to seconds
>
>
>
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Re: Date and time

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

First of all that date cannot be converted in that format. Secondly, try 
convert "Jun 6 2019 09:05:21" to seconds

Bob S


> On Jun 6, 2019, at 11:40 , Glen Bojsza via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I'm pondering the easiest way to do a linear scale based on date and time
> data.
> 
> My thoughts are that if you can change 06-Jun-2019;09:05:21 to epoch
> seconds then it would possible to take all the similar timestamped data and
> change it to seconds thus using it as an "x-axis" scale for graphing
> purposes.
> 
> Of course after the scale is done and the determination of the number of
> ticks used (i think it would be between 5 and 10 ) then you could reverse
> the tick marks labels from seconds back to time.
> 
> I guess my difficulty is is getting 06-Jun-2019;09:05:21 converted to
> seconds. I have gone through several of the dictionary details around
> converting but have not found a solution...
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> thanks,
> 
> Glen


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Re: Date and time

[dunbarxx via use-livecode]

Hi.

Write a simple function that dissects the string you gave. (Pseudo)

function dissectOddFormat
  use itemDelimeters to isolate "06", "Jun", "2019", "09", "05" and "21"
  reform these strings into the date/time format local to your part of the
planet
  convert that new string to seconds or ticks


Craig



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Re: Design questions...

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

I ran into this too concerning the "effective" keyword. The dictionary says, 

"Adding the effective adjective to either form returns the area of the screen 
the application has to itself. In particular, if the keyboard is activated, it 
take into account if the keyboard is taking up space on the screen. (Android 
and iOS only)"

I'm not sure if that means that the keyword can only be used with Android or 
iOS, or if it means that statement about the keyboard taking up the screen only 
applies to Android or iOS (as opposed to say a Windows tablet). 

Looking up the "effective" keyword seems to indicate that it returns the 
inherited property of an object. It does not list screenRect(s) as valid. But 
it seems (and I'm not complaining, just observing) that getting the effective 
screenRect of say a stack or a card would never occur to me. 

> On Jun 6, 2019, at 10:39 , Richmond via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Here's a silly thought that may help a bit . . .
> 
> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32683
> 
> Richmond.


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Date and time

[Glen Bojsza via use-livecode]

I'm pondering the easiest way to do a linear scale based on date and time
data.

My thoughts are that if you can change 06-Jun-2019;09:05:21 to epoch
seconds then it would possible to take all the similar timestamped data and
change it to seconds thus using it as an "x-axis" scale for graphing
purposes.

Of course after the scale is done and the determination of the number of
ticks used (i think it would be between 5 and 10 ) then you could reverse
the tick marks labels from seconds back to time.

I guess my difficulty is is getting 06-Jun-2019;09:05:21 converted to
seconds. I have gone through several of the dictionary details around
converting but have not found a solution...

Any suggestions?

thanks,

Glen
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Re: Design questions...

[Glen Bojsza via use-livecode]

All good feedback! Fortunately I plan to limit the scope of things to the
desktop as previously mentioned.

I can't fathom the tablet / phone market given the number of devices and
their different specs.

Thanks to everyone for their input.

Glen

On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 2:12 PM Phil Davis via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Glen,
>
> There are some screen resolution stats on the web that may be useful, at
> least for 'general public' app window sizes:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_resolution
>
> Phil Davis
>
>
>
> On 6/6/19 6:47 AM, Glen Bojsza via use-livecode wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I was looking for input on the following design questions...I haven't
> done
> > anything for years so I am looking for other developers' experiences.
> >
> > 1. what would be considered the smallest stack size for a desktop app?
> >
> > 2. Does the above fill most of the screens in use today ...ie what is the
> > noraml or considered the standard screen resolution for a desktop laptop?
> >
> > 3. Are apps considered acceptable if the user needs to scroll down to see
> > the full app.
> >
> > 4. Are menu bars (ie File Open) still necessary or are users familiar
> > enough with section buttons?
> >
> > 5. If the stack is too large for a user (say they use a lower resoultion
> > screen notebook then is there a way to detect this and have scroll bars
> > appear?
> >
> > I appreciate any insights the list may have.
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > Glen
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Re: Design questions...

[Phil Davis via use-livecode]

Hi Glen,

There are some screen resolution stats on the web that may be useful, at 
least for 'general public' app window sizes:


   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_resolution

Phil Davis



On 6/6/19 6:47 AM, Glen Bojsza via use-livecode wrote:

Hello,

I was looking for input on the following design questions...I haven't done
anything for years so I am looking for other developers' experiences.

1. what would be considered the smallest stack size for a desktop app?

2. Does the above fill most of the screens in use today ...ie what is the
noraml or considered the standard screen resolution for a desktop laptop?

3. Are apps considered acceptable if the user needs to scroll down to see
the full app.

4. Are menu bars (ie File Open) still necessary or are users familiar
enough with section buttons?

5. If the stack is too large for a user (say they use a lower resoultion
screen notebook then is there a way to detect this and have scroll bars
appear?

I appreciate any insights the list may have.

regards,

Glen
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Re: Design questions...

[Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode]

1. that really depends on the app type and of course on the customers displays.

2. most customers i know have got 17" or higher displays with a ratio of 16:9 
or 16:10. The minimum resolution is 1280x1024 or 1280x768.

3. When working with ERP tools or other business software for accounting, 
shipment or whatever the customers don´t want to scroll. They want to see the 
complete form.

4. For one of my last projects, a shipping software,  i´ve asked the customer 
what they would prefer. They told me that they do not want to have a menubar or 
this ugly ribbon bar.
They wanted it clear with bigger buttons and the possibility to use the 
function keys for some tasks. The old shipping software made use of it and they 
wanted to use the same function keys 
for the same tasks in the new software.
Instead of menus i added big coloured buttons. I´ve also added a scale 
function, so the user can set the scalefactor of the app to 0.75, 1 and 1.5. 

Here´s an screenshot of the entry mask for trans-o-flex labels
https://dl.qck.nu/samples/screenshot-shipping.png 

Okay it will not win a design contest, but it meets the demand of the customer. 
;)

Matthias



> Am 06.06.2019 um 15:47 schrieb Glen Bojsza via use-livecode 
> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>>:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I was looking for input on the following design questions...I haven't done
> anything for years so I am looking for other developers' experiences.
> 
> 1. what would be considered the smallest stack size for a desktop app?
> 
> 2. Does the above fill most of the screens in use today ...ie what is the
> noraml or considered the standard screen resolution for a desktop laptop?
> 
> 3. Are apps considered acceptable if the user needs to scroll down to see
> the full app.
> 
> 4. Are menu bars (ie File Open) still necessary or are users familiar
> enough with section buttons?
> 
> 5. If the stack is too large for a user (say they use a lower resoultion
> screen notebook then is there a way to detect this and have scroll bars
> appear?
> 
> I appreciate any insights the list may have.
> 
> regards,
> 
> Glen
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Matthias Rebbe

free tools for Livecoders:
https://instamaker.dermattes.de 
https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de 
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Re: Design questions...

[Richmond via use-livecode]

I deploy (fancy word saying I have a load of ancient Pentiums . . .) 
some machines
in my school hooked up to flat-screens with a Max Res of 1024 by 780. I 
mean,

at $10 a pop those monitors were impossible to resist!

I make my EFL (English as a Fried Language) standalones to a "standard" 
of 1024 x 720

because of the XFCE panels top-and-bottom on my standard Xubuntu setup . . .

Smaller monitors: dunno: even my iMac G3 turquoise manages 1024 x 780. I 
really wonder
if anyone is going to be so cash-strapped they cannot at least manage a 
monitor that does that.


Richmond.

On 6.06.19 20:13, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode wrote:

We use a height of 728—that’s in compensation for a variety of issues—some 
laptops have very small screens:
LC window title bar (can be hidden by LC if necessary)
Windows Task bar (can be hidden by LC if necessary)

You can get the height of the screen:
(item 4 of the working screenRect) - (item 2 of the working screenRect)

You can also easily resize the window by using scaleFactor. We do some auto 
resizing when opening the program to scale it down for very small screens, and 
have a preference setting for the user to scale it up to maximum available 
height.

Peter Bogdanoff
ArtsInteractive



On Jun 6, 2019, at 11:09 AM, Glen Bojsza via use-livecode 
 wrote:

Bob, thanks for the info...I will start with 1024x768 as a minimal screen
resolution for now and see what happens. As for the combo of menus and
buttons I will try to find if there is a benefit of both and also usability
space within the app.

My target platforms are Windows 10 and OS X 10.X

Glen
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Re: Design questions...

[Richmond via use-livecode]

Here's a silly thought that may help a bit . . .

http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32683

Richmond.

On 6.06.19 16:47, Glen Bojsza via use-livecode wrote:

Hello,

I was looking for input on the following design questions...I haven't done
anything for years so I am looking for other developers' experiences.

1. what would be considered the smallest stack size for a desktop app?

2. Does the above fill most of the screens in use today ...ie what is the
noraml or considered the standard screen resolution for a desktop laptop?

3. Are apps considered acceptable if the user needs to scroll down to see
the full app.

4. Are menu bars (ie File Open) still necessary or are users familiar
enough with section buttons?

5. If the stack is too large for a user (say they use a lower resoultion
screen notebook then is there a way to detect this and have scroll bars
appear?

I appreciate any insights the list may have.

regards,

Glen
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Re: Design questions...

[Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode]

We use a height of 728—that’s in compensation for a variety of issues—some 
laptops have very small screens:
LC window title bar (can be hidden by LC if necessary)
Windows Task bar (can be hidden by LC if necessary)

You can get the height of the screen: 
(item 4 of the working screenRect) - (item 2 of the working screenRect)

You can also easily resize the window by using scaleFactor. We do some auto 
resizing when opening the program to scale it down for very small screens, and 
have a preference setting for the user to scale it up to maximum available 
height.

Peter Bogdanoff
ArtsInteractive


> On Jun 6, 2019, at 11:09 AM, Glen Bojsza via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Bob, thanks for the info...I will start with 1024x768 as a minimal screen
> resolution for now and see what happens. As for the combo of menus and
> buttons I will try to find if there is a benefit of both and also usability
> space within the app.
> 
> My target platforms are Windows 10 and OS X 10.X
> 
> Glen
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Re: How to troubleshoot Datagrid Behavior errors

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

NVM  it's in a column template script. 

Bob S


> On Jun 6, 2019, at 09:09 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi all. 
> 
> I have one stack that will throw errors in the column behavior. I set the 
> global gRevDevelopment to true and set a try catch with a breakpoint in the 
> two places where it seems to fail, but the script is not breaking. Instead it 
> ignores the breakpoint and continues to run. 
> 
> How do I troubleshoot datagrid behavior issues? 
> 
> Bob S


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How to troubleshoot Datagrid Behavior errors

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Hi all. 

I have one stack that will throw errors in the column behavior. I set the 
global gRevDevelopment to true and set a try catch with a breakpoint in the two 
places where it seems to fail, but the script is not breaking. Instead it 
ignores the breakpoint and continues to run. 

How do I troubleshoot datagrid behavior issues? 

Bob S


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Re: Design questions...

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

NP. BTW what I do for functionality that exists in both buttons and menus is, 
barring the handlers being in a library or behavior, I simply send mouseUp from 
the menu script to the button with the pertinent handlers. It's easier to edit 
the script of a button than it is to pull up the Menu Builder and get the 
script of the menu buttons from there. (I develop on OS X so my menus are 
always hidden.) 

Bob S


> On Jun 6, 2019, at 08:09 , Glen Bojsza via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Bob, thanks for the info...I will start with 1024x768 as a minimal screen
> resolution for now and see what happens. As for the combo of menus and
> buttons I will try to find if there is a benefit of both and also usability
> space within the app.
> 
> My target platforms are Windows 10 and OS X 10.X
> 
> Glen


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Re: Design questions...

[Glen Bojsza via use-livecode]

Bob, thanks for the info...I will start with 1024x768 as a minimal screen
resolution for now and see what happens. As for the combo of menus and
buttons I will try to find if there is a benefit of both and also usability
space within the app.

My target platforms are Windows 10 and OS X 10.X

Glen
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Re: Design questions...

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

The smallerst monitor I know of is 640x480. That is tiny. Many developers 
require a minimal size monitor to function correctly. Our ERP system specifies 
a minimum of 1024x768. 

As far as scrolling, I suppose it depends on the app. Take Facebook for 
example. It depends on scrolling. You couldn't have that app without it. But an 
accounting app with preset forms, nada. 

Some web apps revert to a different form if the screen size becomes too small. 
Some detect the client is a mobile device and redirect to a different page. 

If by section buttons you mean Microsoft style ribbons, their review was mixed. 
I still don't like em. In my apps that have menus, I also like controls on the 
card which essentially do the same thing. No one will complain about giving 
them multiple ways to do the same thing. Well... samoe may, but those people 
are going to complain anyway. 

Bob S


> On Jun 6, 2019, at 06:47 , Glen Bojsza via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> 1. what would be considered the smallest stack size for a desktop app?


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Design questions...

[Glen Bojsza via use-livecode]

Hello,

I was looking for input on the following design questions...I haven't done
anything for years so I am looking for other developers' experiences.

1. what would be considered the smallest stack size for a desktop app?

2. Does the above fill most of the screens in use today ...ie what is the
noraml or considered the standard screen resolution for a desktop laptop?

3. Are apps considered acceptable if the user needs to scroll down to see
the full app.

4. Are menu bars (ie File Open) still necessary or are users familiar
enough with section buttons?

5. If the stack is too large for a user (say they use a lower resoultion
screen notebook then is there a way to detect this and have scroll bars
appear?

I appreciate any insights the list may have.

regards,

Glen
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