Re: generating a standalone in v9.x

[Douglas Ruisaard via use-livecode]

Thanks, JJS.

I had that code ion place from Bob's suggestion but ran into the (apparent) 
never-ending "Attaching Engine" state.  **BUT** just now I discovered, as my 
eye glanced over at the app's script in the Editor, the standalone build had 
"re-started" my application and was "stalled" on a "red-dot" debug flag.

I ALWAYS put a red-dot/debug flag in the "OpenCard" call so I can control 
whether I want the app to run or not when it initially loads into LC.

Once I clicked on the  (continue) button of the editor, the standalone 
completed.  REALLY?  Whatever!  Now that I know that "feature", I can live with 
it.. but I bet THAT characteristic *isn't* described in the release note(s).

Thanks again for your help!

Doug

> Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2019 19:20:04 +0100
> From: JJS 
> To: Douglas Ruisaard via use-livecode 
> Subject: Re: generating a standalone in v9.x
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> 
> What you need is described in the release notes from 9.x onwards
> 
> Removing the command quit is not the solution
> 
> use this, it is copied from the release notes:
> 
> on closeStack
> if the environment is "development" and \
> there is a stack "revStandaloneProgress" and \
> the mode of stack "revStandaloneProgress" > 0 then
> exit closeStack
> end if
> end closeStack
> 
> i use it always and always works ok.
> 
> 
> Op 1-11-2019 om 18:44 schreef Douglas Ruisaard via use-livecode:
> > Thanks Bob and Heather and also a thanks to Giovanni Cannizzaro.
> >
> > Giovanni had the minimal fix to just remove a "quit" from any 
> > "shutDownRequest".
> >
> > Heather from LC also offered the following code in a related situation to 
> > Giovanni's:
> > on closeStack
> > if the mode of stack "revStandaloneProgress" > 0 then
> > exit closeStack
> > end if
> > end closeStack
> >
> > The simple fix of removing the "quit" actually allowed the standalone to 
> > generate a working
> executable... HOWEVER, now the build stops with a never-ending "Attaching 
> engine" spinner.  I have to
> completely exit LC to stop the "unfinished" process.
> >
> > I have tried inserting BOTH Heather's and Bob's suggestions but they do NOT 
> > resolve the "Attaching
> engine" issue.
> >
> > Any suggestions?
> >
> > ps... LC business 8.1.10 still generated the standalone PERFECTLY... even 
> > with the v9 changes in the
> script.  Glad I kept it around!!!  NOT lovin' v9x much at all!
> >
> >
> > Douglas Ruisaard
> > Trilogy Software
> > (250) 573-3935
> >
> >> Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2019 22:12:17 +
> >> From: Bob Sneidar 
> >> To: How to use LiveCode 
> >> Subject: Re: generating a standalone in v9.x
> >> Message-ID: 
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> There is a set of commands that in certain scripts like opesStack and 
> >> closeStack that will check to
> >> see if the standalone builder is running, and then you can abort the 
> >> handler.
> >>
> >> The reason they do this is because your app could be doing anything at the 
> >> moment the standalone is
> >> being built. The standalone has to walk through every script to check what 
> >> add-ons or libraries you
> >> use so it can include them.
> >>
> >> Here's what I do. In the stackScript of the mainStack:
> >>
> >> on savingStandalone
> >> put true into gBuildingStandAlone
> >> end savingStandalone
> >>
> >> on standaloneSaved
> >> put false into gBuildingStandAlone
> >> end standaloneSaved
> >>
> >> Then in any openStack handler, either in the stack or card, I put this:
> >>
> >> put the environment is "development" and \
> >>   there is a stack "revStandaloneProgress" and \
> >>   the mode of stack "revStandaloneProgress" > 0 into skipLogin
> >>
> >> if not skipLogin then
> >> --- code that borks your standalone building. For me it was calling a 
> >> login dialog as modal.
> >> end if
> >>
> >> Bob S
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Oct 31, 2019, at 14:50 , Douglas Ruisaard via use-livecode 
> >>> 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I am having an issue with using "any" business version of 9 (9.04, 9.05, 
> >>> 9.5-32bit, 9.5-64bit) to
> >> generate a standalone output of my application.  I am using Windows 7 
> >> Enterprise SP1 and have tried
> >> building the identical script (with the same result) on two different 
> >> installations of said OS on
> two
> >> different machines.
> >>> LC business v 8.1.10 generates the standalone fine.
> >>>
> >>> LC business version 9.0.5 (with IDENTICAL settings in the "Standalone 
> >>> Application Settings" as
> used
> >> in the v8.1.10 build) seems to crash LC  just at the point of "closing 
> >> open stacks" at which point
> all
> >> things LC disappear from my desktop.  An appropriate "destination" 
> >> directory for the standalone is
> >> created as per the settings but it is completely empty.
> >>> The actual application runs fine in all LC business versions... it's just 
> >>> that I can't get the LC
> >> 

Re: "empty" background in printed pdf is actually grey

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 11/1/19 5:27 PM, Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode wrote:


Now my head is spinning . . .  anything more  you can tell me beyond what the 
dictionary says would help, as my head is spinning . . .


Yeah, now that I think back on this the blendlevel would make the text 
transparent as well as the background, so that's not gonna fly.


Is it possible to pick up the background color from the mouseColor or 
the backgroundColor or something and set the background color of the 
field to that? (and obviously forget the bit about setting the blendlevel)


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: "empty" background in printed pdf is actually grey

[Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode]

On Nov 1, 2019, at 4:37 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
 wrote:
> 
> Untested, but maybe setting the opaques to true and the blendlevel to 100? A 
> bit counerintuitive, but ya never know...



No less intuitive than there being fundamental technical reasons that it was 
necessary to sacrifice small animals to SCSI chains, which I accepted long ago 
:)

The result is curious . . . the outputted pdf is now *entirely* grey, yet when 
merged through PyPDF2, a single renege field appears from within the grey (the 
only field the I hadn’t set to not be opaque, I think.  Or perhaps it’s the 
only one with a white rather than empty background.

Still, though, the grey of the livecode file blocks the pdf beneath it.

I’m printing each LC page with 

set the backgroundColor of otCd to empty

set the opaque of group "oGrp" to true

set the blendlevel of group "oGrp" to 100

set the blendlevel of otCd to 100


print otCd from otTl to otBr into 18,18,576+18,756


(where otCd is the card with my LC fields, all contained within group ogre). 
(otto and otBr hold the top left and bottom right of group ogre)


Just what are you suggesting should get a blend level?

Or would it make sense ()or be necessary)if I just printed each  field into its 
own coordinate?

And a bit of further testing shows that the field that appears after merging is 
actually a region which contains two fields and the space between them,  and is 
apparently shown the background pdf in this limited area (but not the contents 
of these fields.

Now my head is spinning . . .  anything more  you can tell me beyond what the 
dictionary says would help, as my head is spinning . . . 





— 
Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
The Hawkins Law Firm
3430 E. Flamingo Rd.
Suite 232
Las Vegas, NV  89121
(702) 508-8462

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Re: "empty" background in printed pdf is actually grey

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

While on screen, my generated objects act correctly, being just black text with 
transparent background.   When merging, though, the livecode pdf has grey 
instead of clear for the entire object generated with print to pdf.


Untested, but maybe setting the opaques to true and the blendlevel to 
100? A bit counerintuitive, but ya never know...


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: Learning from scratch - any recommendations?

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Dr. Pol is Dutch. I love that show. 

Bob S


> On Nov 1, 2019, at 15:31 , Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> we were very often in the Netherlands for vacation, so i seriously tried to 
> learn Dutch.
> But it ended that the Dutch better understood me when i spoke German or 
> English instead of Dutch. ;)
> 
> Matthias Rebbe
> 
> free tools for Livecoders:


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Re: Learning from scratch - any recommendations?

[Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode]

we were very often in the Netherlands for vacation, so i seriously tried to 
learn Dutch.
But it ended that the Dutch better understood me when i spoke German or English 
instead of Dutch. ;)

Matthias Rebbe

free tools for Livecoders:
InstaMaker 
WinSignMaker Mac 

> Am 01.11.2019 um 19:28 schrieb JJS via use-livecode 
> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>>:
> 
> quote : I hate to learn another language. That is why I live in the United 
> States. /quote
> 
> If we the Dutch go to Germany we talk German, if we go to France many of us 
> not all talk French, if we go to other countries we talk mainly English.
> 
> If Germans or French come to our country we talk their language or english
> 
> Try to learn Dutch, if we had'nt sold New York to the Brittish you'd all talk 
> Dutch
> 
> And partly thank God it happened or we'd all would listen to Dutch music 
> today and most of it i can't stand :)
> 
> there was another point i wanted to make, but during typing i forgot.
> 
> 
> Back on topic, Java or Kotlin is something i would want to try, but it's more 
> difficult, although everyone says their language is so easy. Livecode is best 
> to step in.
> 
> 
> Op 1-11-2019 om 18:52 schreef dunbarx--- via use-livecode:
>> I am with Richmond, mainly.
>> I hate to learn another language. That is why I live in the United States.
>> LC, if you introduce only a  handful or three of native words, controls and 
>> concepts, is accessible to anyone with a real desire to learn this sort of 
>> thing. Even a first grader; they just need more mentoring. Even someone who 
>> did not know they would like to build stuff in software.
>> The trick is the engagement, to make it seem cool and fun.
>> Craig
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode > >
>> To: How to use LiveCode > >
>> Cc: Richmond Mathewson > >
>> Sent: Fri, Nov 1, 2019 12:59 pm
>> Subject: Re: Learning from scratch - any recommendations?
>> 
>> I have a radical disagreement with Scratch and its ilk as, while it does
>> allow one to run up simple computer games, it does not let users see the
>> "guts" of a program, and seems not to give children transferrable skill for
>> non-block programming languages. I have successfully started kids from 9
>> years old and upward on programming with both BBC BASIC and Livecode.
>> 
>> On Fri, Nov 1, 2019, 6:00 PM kee nethery via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > wrote:
>> 
>>> My recommendation is to have them start with scratch.mit.edu 
>>>  and spend a
>>> month making stuff with that language. Scratch is built for 1st graders to
>>> pick up and it is extremely satisfying as the starter language. They get
>>> exposed to all sorts of concepts, message passing, variables, flow control,
>>> multi-processing, it’s a great starter language. A month making stuff and
>>> then move to livecode.
>>> 
>>> Kee
>>> 
 On Nov 1, 2019, at 3:23 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > wrote:
 I was disappointed that I only got one reply to my query about LC as a
>>> platform for learning programming - I thought this was a big thing with
>>> quite a few people on this list, some of whom are actually educators. Since
>>> I’ve failed in this, can someone suggest a better way of getting an answer
>>> (e.g. forums, mother ship)?
 TIA
 
 Graham
 
 I wrote:
 
> I have been approached by one of my family to ask what would be the
>>> first steps for someone (a young adult) to enable them to enter the world
>>> of app design and programming. Obviously I need to ask more questions
>>> myself, such as whether this would be to get a job, or simply as an
>>> educational exercise, or maybe to provide a launchpad for a startup idea.
>>> However, even at this stage, of course my thoughts turned to LiveCode.
> So my question to the community is, how would such a person start off -
>>> assuming they’re intelligent, very familiar with consumer-level technology
>>> such as smart phones, tablets, laptop computers for study etc. and social
>>> media, but probably have never seen or thought about what is involved in
>>> designing, implementing and publishing an app (I would just say “a
>>> program”, but that shows how old I am) on any platform? If it is LC (and
>>> why not?), are the published lessons sufficient? What is the view of those
>>> on this list who do actually teach this stuff?
> The trouble for me is that I have been around all this for 50 years
>>> (more, to be truthful) and so can’t project myself well into the mind of
>>> that kind of newbie. One guess is that one way to start would be to find a
>>> cheap hardware platform (probably an 

Re: SSH and SCP in LiveCode

[Charles Warwick via use-livecode]

Hi Mike,

tsNet does support file transfers via SSH, just use sftp:// at the start of the 
URL instead of ftp:// or ftps://, otherwise the commands are mostly identical.

Just note that not all SSH features are supported in the Indy version of LC - 
some require the Business edition.

What are you trying to do that you think tsNet doesn’t support?

Regards,

Charles

> On 2 Nov 2019, at 3:21 am, Mike Felker via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello group.
> 
> 
> 
> Just joined but long-time LiveCode user.
> 
> 
> 
> I need SSH / SCP capability for LiveCode.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone know how to use this (either the old external or by any other means)?
> 
> 
> 
> I do not thing TSNet will help in this case.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rubidex - The Reliable Blockchain Company
> 
> Mike Felker
> 
> CTO Rubidex
> 
> 813-810-3457
> 
> 138 Whitaker Road, Suite A
> 
> Lutz, FL 33549
> 
> rubidex.net
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Re: Learning from scratch - any recommendations?

[JJS via use-livecode]

Also a very good point !

Thanks Erik.

Op 1-11-2019 om 19:43 schreef Erik Beugelaar via use-livecode:

" Try to learn Dutch, if we had'nt sold New York to the Brittish you'd all  talk 
Dutch"

LOL

The other point you maybe wanted to make but forgotten is to mention The Dutch 
East India Company, officially the United East India Company (in Dutch the VOC).
VOC became the world's first formally listed public company. In other words, it 
was the first corporation to be listed on an official stock exchange. It was 
influential in the rise of corporate-led globalisation in the early modern 
period.

I am proud to be Dutch :)

On 01/11/2019, 19:29, "use-livecode on behalf of JJS via use-livecode" 
 wrote:

 quote : I hate to learn another language. That is why I live in the
 United States. /quote
 
 If we the Dutch go to Germany we talk German, if we go to France many of

 us not all talk French, if we go to other countries we talk mainly English.
 
 If Germans or French come to our country we talk their language or english
 
 Try to learn Dutch, if we had'nt sold New York to the Brittish you'd all

 talk Dutch
 
 And partly thank God it happened or we'd all would listen to Dutch music

 today and most of it i can't stand :)
 
 there was another point i wanted to make, but during typing i forgot.
 
 
 Back on topic, Java or Kotlin is something i would want to try, but it's

 more difficult, although everyone says their language is so easy.
 Livecode is best to step in.
 
 
 Op 1-11-2019 om 18:52 schreef dunbarx--- via use-livecode:

 > I am with Richmond, mainly.
 > I hate to learn another language. That is why I live in the United 
States.
 > LC, if you introduce only a  handful or three of native words, controls 
and concepts, is accessible to anyone with a real desire to learn this sort of 
thing. Even a first grader; they just need more mentoring. Even someone who did 
not know they would like to build stuff in software.
 > The trick is the engagement, to make it seem cool and fun.
 > Craig
 >
 >
 > -Original Message-
 > From: Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
 > To: How to use LiveCode 
 > Cc: Richmond Mathewson 
 > Sent: Fri, Nov 1, 2019 12:59 pm
 > Subject: Re: Learning from scratch - any recommendations?
 >
 > I have a radical disagreement with Scratch and its ilk as, while it does
 > allow one to run up simple computer games, it does not let users see the
 > "guts" of a program, and seems not to give children transferrable skill 
for
 > non-block programming languages. I have successfully started kids from 9
 > years old and upward on programming with both BBC BASIC and Livecode.
 >
 > On Fri, Nov 1, 2019, 6:00 PM kee nethery via use-livecode <
 > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
 >
 >> My recommendation is to have them start with scratch.mit.edu and spend a
 >> month making stuff with that language. Scratch is built for 1st graders 
to
 >> pick up and it is extremely satisfying as the starter language. They get
 >> exposed to all sorts of concepts, message passing, variables, flow 
control,
 >> multi-processing, it’s a great starter language. A month making stuff 
and
 >> then move to livecode.
 >>
 >> Kee
 >>
 >>> On Nov 1, 2019, at 3:23 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
 >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
 >>> I was disappointed that I only got one reply to my query about LC as a
 >> platform for learning programming - I thought this was a big thing with
 >> quite a few people on this list, some of whom are actually educators. 
Since
 >> I’ve failed in this, can someone suggest a better way of getting an 
answer
 >> (e.g. forums, mother ship)?
 >>> TIA
 >>>
 >>> Graham
 >>>
 >>> I wrote:
 >>>
  I have been approached by one of my family to ask what would be the
 >> first steps for someone (a young adult) to enable them to enter the 
world
 >> of app design and programming. Obviously I need to ask more questions
 >> myself, such as whether this would be to get a job, or simply as an
 >> educational exercise, or maybe to provide a launchpad for a startup 
idea.
 >> However, even at this stage, of course my thoughts turned to LiveCode.
  So my question to the community is, how would such a person start off 
-
 >> assuming they’re intelligent, very familiar with consumer-level 
technology
 >> such as smart phones, tablets, laptop computers for study etc. and 
social
 >> media, but probably have never seen or thought about what is involved in
 >> designing, implementing and publishing an app (I would just say “a
 >> program”, but that shows how old I am) on any platform? If it is LC (and
 >> why not?), are the published lessons sufficient? What is 

RE: Android - ANRs and Crashes

[Ralph DiMola via use-livecode]

Some of these are BS but download the logcat and send it and the text of the 
error to Panos. I did that once and he found and fixed the problem.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net

-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
Sent: Friday, November 01, 2019 1:57 PM
To: How LiveCode
Cc: Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami
Subject: Android - ANRs and Crashes

We are getting new reports in Google console -- haven't looked at it in a 
while, but now getting ready for a new release and I am going through every 
link at the developer console site, as there are new requirement I don't want 
to miss….now these this new thing:



ANRs and Crashes



 it is surprisingly explicit.Almost all my users complain the app is very not 
responsive. So it was interesting to see lots these

=

Input dispatching timed out (Waiting to send non-key event because the touched 
window has not finished processing certain input events that were delivered to 
it over 500.0ms ago. waitqueue length = 5, head.seq = 948440, Wait queue head 
age: 29489.7ms.)



com.himalayanacademy.sivasiva.mblandroid





FWIW. I should probably send this to HQ, but it is rather interesting, if 
incomprehensible to me.  Now, if  could just interpret this to "what am in 
doing in the Livecode script that would fix this" that would be great!



Because of this line (just guessing)



"OkHttp ConnectionPool" tid=18 TimedWaiting



I think this it is a user trying to get an http request in a browser widget.  I 
have a whole string of these



and more detail below:

=





=



"main" tid=1 Native

"main" prio=5 tid=1 Native | group="main" sCount=1 dsCount=0 flags=1 
obj=0x72c80af0 self=0x7bcc6a7a00 | sysTid=31502 nice=-10 cgrp=default sched=0/0 
handle=0x7bd18d49b0 | state=S schedstat=( 5064974951 299734164 9663 ) utm=376 
stm=129 core=7 HZ=100 | stack=0x7ff9f02000-0x7ff9f04000 stackSize=8MB | held 
mutexes=

#00 pc 0001e2ec /system/lib64/libc.so (syscall+28)

#01 pc 00074850 /system/lib64/libc.so (pthread_cond_wait+96)

#02 pc 0017e8ac 
/data/app/com.himalayanacademy.sivasiva-t8T3HnRinrBcByX4z9bjaw==/lib/arm64/librevandroid.so
 (???)

at com.runrev.android.Engine.doProcess (Native method)

at com.runrev.android.Engine$1.handleMessage (Engine.java:162)

at android.os.Handler.dispatchMessage (Handler.java:108)

at android.os.Looper.loop (Looper.java:166)

at android.app.ActivityThread.main (ActivityThread.java:7529)

at java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke (Native method)

at com.android.internal.os.Zygote$MethodAndArgsCaller.run (Zygote.java:245)

at com.android.internal.os.ZygoteInit.main (ZygoteInit.java:921)

"Jit thread pool worker thread 0" tid=2 Native

"ReferenceQueueDaemon" tid=4 Waiting

"FinalizerDaemon" tid=5 Waiting

"FinalizerWatchdogDaemon" tid=6 Waiting

"Binder:31502_1" tid=8 Native

"Binder:31502_2" tid=9 Native

"hwuiTask1" tid=10 Native

"Profile Saver" tid=11 Native

"Thread-4" tid=12 Native

"Thread-5" tid=13 Native

"Thread-7" tid=14 Native

"RenderThread" tid=15 Native

"Binder:31502_3" tid=16 Native

"hwuiTask2" tid=17 Native

"OkHttp ConnectionPool" tid=18 TimedWaiting

"Binder:31502_4" tid=19 Native

"HwBinder:31502_1" tid=20 Native

"Binder:31502_5" tid=21 Native

"Binder:31502_6" tid=22 Native

"queued-work-looper" tid=23 Native

"RenderThread"

"Signal Catcher" tid=3 Runnable

"HeapTaskDaemon" tid=7 Blocked

"HeapTaskDaemon" daemon prio=5 tid=7 Blocked | group="system" sCount=1 
dsCount=0 flags=1 obj=0x12c72dd0 self=0x7bcc6aa200 | sysTid=31513 nice=4 
cgrp=default sched=0/0 handle=0x7bb141e4f0 | state=S schedstat=( 517185 32501 
10 ) utm=0 stm=0 core=4 HZ=100 | stack=0x7bb131c000-0x7bb131e000 
stackSize=1037KB | held mutexes=

#00 pc 0001e2ec /system/lib64/libc.so (syscall+28)

#01 pc 000e4608 /system/lib64/libart.so 
(_ZN3art17ConditionVariable16WaitHoldingLocksEPNS_6ThreadE+152)

#02 pc 002628c8 /system/lib64/libart.so 
(_ZN3art2gc13TaskProcessor7GetTaskEPNS_6ThreadE+292)

#03 pc 002631f0 /system/lib64/libart.so 
(_ZN3art2gc13TaskProcessor11RunAllTasksEPNS_6ThreadE+92)

#04 pc 0020c96c /system/framework/arm64/boot-core-libart.oat 
(Java_dalvik_system_VMRuntime_runHeapTasks__+124)

at dalvik.system.VMRuntime.runHeapTasks (Native method)

- waiting to lock an unknown object

at java.lang.Daemons$HeapTaskDaemon.runInternal (Daemons.java:473)

at java.lang.Daemons$Daemon.run (Daemons.java:103)

at java.lang.Thread.run (Thread.java:784)










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Re: Learning from scratch - any recommendations?

[Erik Beugelaar via use-livecode]

" Try to learn Dutch, if we had'nt sold New York to the Brittish you'd all  
talk Dutch"

LOL

The other point you maybe wanted to make but forgotten is to mention The Dutch 
East India Company, officially the United East India Company (in Dutch the VOC).
VOC became the world's first formally listed public company. In other words, it 
was the first corporation to be listed on an official stock exchange. It was 
influential in the rise of corporate-led globalisation in the early modern 
period.

I am proud to be Dutch :)

On 01/11/2019, 19:29, "use-livecode on behalf of JJS via use-livecode" 
 wrote:

quote : I hate to learn another language. That is why I live in the 
United States. /quote

If we the Dutch go to Germany we talk German, if we go to France many of 
us not all talk French, if we go to other countries we talk mainly English.

If Germans or French come to our country we talk their language or english

Try to learn Dutch, if we had'nt sold New York to the Brittish you'd all 
talk Dutch

And partly thank God it happened or we'd all would listen to Dutch music 
today and most of it i can't stand :)

there was another point i wanted to make, but during typing i forgot.


Back on topic, Java or Kotlin is something i would want to try, but it's 
more difficult, although everyone says their language is so easy. 
Livecode is best to step in.


Op 1-11-2019 om 18:52 schreef dunbarx--- via use-livecode:
> I am with Richmond, mainly.
> I hate to learn another language. That is why I live in the United States.
> LC, if you introduce only a  handful or three of native words, controls 
and concepts, is accessible to anyone with a real desire to learn this sort of 
thing. Even a first grader; they just need more mentoring. Even someone who did 
not know they would like to build stuff in software.
> The trick is the engagement, to make it seem cool and fun.
> Craig
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
> To: How to use LiveCode 
> Cc: Richmond Mathewson 
> Sent: Fri, Nov 1, 2019 12:59 pm
> Subject: Re: Learning from scratch - any recommendations?
>
> I have a radical disagreement with Scratch and its ilk as, while it does
> allow one to run up simple computer games, it does not let users see the
> "guts" of a program, and seems not to give children transferrable skill 
for
> non-block programming languages. I have successfully started kids from 9
> years old and upward on programming with both BBC BASIC and Livecode.
>
> On Fri, Nov 1, 2019, 6:00 PM kee nethery via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> My recommendation is to have them start with scratch.mit.edu and spend a
>> month making stuff with that language. Scratch is built for 1st graders 
to
>> pick up and it is extremely satisfying as the starter language. They get
>> exposed to all sorts of concepts, message passing, variables, flow 
control,
>> multi-processing, it’s a great starter language. A month making stuff and
>> then move to livecode.
>>
>> Kee
>>
>>> On Nov 1, 2019, at 3:23 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> I was disappointed that I only got one reply to my query about LC as a
>> platform for learning programming - I thought this was a big thing with
>> quite a few people on this list, some of whom are actually educators. 
Since
>> I’ve failed in this, can someone suggest a better way of getting an 
answer
>> (e.g. forums, mother ship)?
>>> TIA
>>>
>>> Graham
>>>
>>> I wrote:
>>>
 I have been approached by one of my family to ask what would be the
>> first steps for someone (a young adult) to enable them to enter the world
>> of app design and programming. Obviously I need to ask more questions
>> myself, such as whether this would be to get a job, or simply as an
>> educational exercise, or maybe to provide a launchpad for a startup idea.
>> However, even at this stage, of course my thoughts turned to LiveCode.
 So my question to the community is, how would such a person start off -
>> assuming they’re intelligent, very familiar with consumer-level 
technology
>> such as smart phones, tablets, laptop computers for study etc. and social
>> media, but probably have never seen or thought about what is involved in
>> designing, implementing and publishing an app (I would just say “a
>> program”, but that shows how old I am) on any platform? If it is LC (and
>> why not?), are the published lessons sufficient? What is the view of 
those
>> on this list who do actually teach this stuff?
 The trouble for me is that I have been around all this for 50 years
>> (more, to be truthful) and so can’t 

Re: Learning from scratch - any recommendations?

[JJS via use-livecode]

quote : I hate to learn another language. That is why I live in the 
United States. /quote


If we the Dutch go to Germany we talk German, if we go to France many of 
us not all talk French, if we go to other countries we talk mainly English.


If Germans or French come to our country we talk their language or english

Try to learn Dutch, if we had'nt sold New York to the Brittish you'd all 
talk Dutch


And partly thank God it happened or we'd all would listen to Dutch music 
today and most of it i can't stand :)


there was another point i wanted to make, but during typing i forgot.


Back on topic, Java or Kotlin is something i would want to try, but it's 
more difficult, although everyone says their language is so easy. 
Livecode is best to step in.



Op 1-11-2019 om 18:52 schreef dunbarx--- via use-livecode:

I am with Richmond, mainly.
I hate to learn another language. That is why I live in the United States.
LC, if you introduce only a  handful or three of native words, controls and 
concepts, is accessible to anyone with a real desire to learn this sort of 
thing. Even a first grader; they just need more mentoring. Even someone who did 
not know they would like to build stuff in software.
The trick is the engagement, to make it seem cool and fun.
Craig


-Original Message-
From: Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
To: How to use LiveCode 
Cc: Richmond Mathewson 
Sent: Fri, Nov 1, 2019 12:59 pm
Subject: Re: Learning from scratch - any recommendations?

I have a radical disagreement with Scratch and its ilk as, while it does
allow one to run up simple computer games, it does not let users see the
"guts" of a program, and seems not to give children transferrable skill for
non-block programming languages. I have successfully started kids from 9
years old and upward on programming with both BBC BASIC and Livecode.

On Fri, Nov 1, 2019, 6:00 PM kee nethery via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:


My recommendation is to have them start with scratch.mit.edu and spend a
month making stuff with that language. Scratch is built for 1st graders to
pick up and it is extremely satisfying as the starter language. They get
exposed to all sorts of concepts, message passing, variables, flow control,
multi-processing, it’s a great starter language. A month making stuff and
then move to livecode.

Kee


On Nov 1, 2019, at 3:23 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <

use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

I was disappointed that I only got one reply to my query about LC as a

platform for learning programming - I thought this was a big thing with
quite a few people on this list, some of whom are actually educators. Since
I’ve failed in this, can someone suggest a better way of getting an answer
(e.g. forums, mother ship)?

TIA

Graham

I wrote:


I have been approached by one of my family to ask what would be the

first steps for someone (a young adult) to enable them to enter the world
of app design and programming. Obviously I need to ask more questions
myself, such as whether this would be to get a job, or simply as an
educational exercise, or maybe to provide a launchpad for a startup idea.
However, even at this stage, of course my thoughts turned to LiveCode.

So my question to the community is, how would such a person start off -

assuming they’re intelligent, very familiar with consumer-level technology
such as smart phones, tablets, laptop computers for study etc. and social
media, but probably have never seen or thought about what is involved in
designing, implementing and publishing an app (I would just say “a
program”, but that shows how old I am) on any platform? If it is LC (and
why not?), are the published lessons sufficient? What is the view of those
on this list who do actually teach this stuff?

The trouble for me is that I have been around all this for 50 years

(more, to be truthful) and so can’t project myself well into the mind of
that kind of newbie. One guess is that one way to start would be to find a
cheap hardware platform (probably an Android tablet) and try to use the LC
Community Edition to allow me to create something for that; but that idea
may be stupid, particularly as one would need a different platform to
actually do the development work.

Hoping for some insights

Graham

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Re: generating a standalone in v9.x

[JJS via use-livecode]

What you need is described in the release notes from 9.x onwards

Removing the command quit is not the solution

use this, it is copied from the release notes:

on closeStack
if the environment is "development" and \
there is a stack "revStandaloneProgress" and \
the mode of stack "revStandaloneProgress" > 0 then
exit closeStack
end if
end closeStack

i use it always and always works ok.


Op 1-11-2019 om 18:44 schreef Douglas Ruisaard via use-livecode:

Thanks Bob and Heather and also a thanks to Giovanni Cannizzaro.

Giovanni had the minimal fix to just remove a "quit" from any "shutDownRequest".

Heather from LC also offered the following code in a related situation to 
Giovanni's:
on closeStack
if the mode of stack "revStandaloneProgress" > 0 then
exit closeStack
end if
end closeStack

The simple fix of removing the "quit" actually allowed the standalone to generate a working 
executable... HOWEVER, now the build stops with a never-ending "Attaching engine" spinner.  I have 
to completely exit LC to stop the "unfinished" process.

I have tried inserting BOTH Heather's and Bob's suggestions but they do NOT resolve the 
"Attaching engine" issue.

Any suggestions?

ps... LC business 8.1.10 still generated the standalone PERFECTLY... even with 
the v9 changes in the script.  Glad I kept it around!!!  NOT lovin' v9x much at 
all!


Douglas Ruisaard
Trilogy Software
(250) 573-3935


Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2019 22:12:17 +
From: Bob Sneidar 
To: How to use LiveCode 
Subject: Re: generating a standalone in v9.x
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

There is a set of commands that in certain scripts like opesStack and 
closeStack that will check to
see if the standalone builder is running, and then you can abort the handler.

The reason they do this is because your app could be doing anything at the 
moment the standalone is
being built. The standalone has to walk through every script to check what 
add-ons or libraries you
use so it can include them.

Here's what I do. In the stackScript of the mainStack:

on savingStandalone
put true into gBuildingStandAlone
end savingStandalone

on standaloneSaved
put false into gBuildingStandAlone
end standaloneSaved

Then in any openStack handler, either in the stack or card, I put this:

put the environment is "development" and \
  there is a stack "revStandaloneProgress" and \
  the mode of stack "revStandaloneProgress" > 0 into skipLogin

if not skipLogin then
--- code that borks your standalone building. For me it was calling a login 
dialog as modal.
end if

Bob S



On Oct 31, 2019, at 14:50 , Douglas Ruisaard via use-livecode 
 wrote:

I am having an issue with using "any" business version of 9 (9.04, 9.05, 
9.5-32bit, 9.5-64bit) to

generate a standalone output of my application.  I am using Windows 7 
Enterprise SP1 and have tried
building the identical script (with the same result) on two different 
installations of said OS on two
different machines.

LC business v 8.1.10 generates the standalone fine.

LC business version 9.0.5 (with IDENTICAL settings in the "Standalone Application 
Settings" as used

in the v8.1.10 build) seems to crash LC  just at the point of "closing open 
stacks" at which point all
things LC disappear from my desktop.  An appropriate "destination" directory 
for the standalone is
created as per the settings but it is completely empty.

The actual application runs fine in all LC business versions... it's just that 
I can't get the LC

v9.x to generated the standalone... and ... I can't find ANY error or log 
explaining what is wrong!!

Is there such a log or audit which details the steps that LC is taking and 
possibly what the issue

is that it cannot resolve?  I have checked at the Administrators tools event 
logging provided by
Windows 7 ... but there is no corresponding event which is simultaneous with the LC 
"crash".

I follow this user-group quite closely and seem to recall others having issues 
with LC v9's

standalone processes but I cannot seem to find such references within the very 
large amount of chat
this site contains.  I have NOT checked the LC QC bugs since I really don't 
know what I'm looking for
other than potential issues with the standalone builder.

I'd very much appreciate any tips, pointers, explanations as to how to either 
resolve this issue or

where within my LC environment I can find any logs concerning the standalone 
processing.

Cheers!
Douglas Ruisaard
Trilogy Software
(250) 573-3935


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Android - ANRs and Crashes

[Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode]

We are getting new reports in Google console -- haven't looked at it in a 
while, but now getting ready for a new release and I am going through every 
link at the developer console site, as there are new requirement I don't want 
to miss….now these this new thing:



ANRs and Crashes



 it is surprisingly explicit.Almost all my users complain the app is very not 
responsive. So it was interesting to see lots these

=

Input dispatching timed out (Waiting to send non-key event because the touched 
window has not finished processing certain input events that were delivered to 
it over 500.0ms ago. waitqueue length = 5, head.seq = 948440, Wait queue head 
age: 29489.7ms.)



com.himalayanacademy.sivasiva.mblandroid





FWIW. I should probably send this to HQ, but it is rather interesting, if 
incomprehensible to me.  Now, if  could just interpret this to "what am in 
doing in the Livecode script that would fix this" that would be great!



Because of this line (just guessing)



"OkHttp ConnectionPool" tid=18 TimedWaiting



I think this it is a user trying to get an http request in a browser widget.  I 
have a whole string of these



and more detail below:

=





=



"main" tid=1 Native

"main" prio=5 tid=1 Native | group="main" sCount=1 dsCount=0 flags=1 
obj=0x72c80af0 self=0x7bcc6a7a00 | sysTid=31502 nice=-10 cgrp=default sched=0/0 
handle=0x7bd18d49b0 | state=S schedstat=( 5064974951 299734164 9663 ) utm=376 
stm=129 core=7 HZ=100 | stack=0x7ff9f02000-0x7ff9f04000 stackSize=8MB | held 
mutexes=

#00 pc 0001e2ec /system/lib64/libc.so (syscall+28)

#01 pc 00074850 /system/lib64/libc.so (pthread_cond_wait+96)

#02 pc 0017e8ac 
/data/app/com.himalayanacademy.sivasiva-t8T3HnRinrBcByX4z9bjaw==/lib/arm64/librevandroid.so
 (???)

at com.runrev.android.Engine.doProcess (Native method)

at com.runrev.android.Engine$1.handleMessage (Engine.java:162)

at android.os.Handler.dispatchMessage (Handler.java:108)

at android.os.Looper.loop (Looper.java:166)

at android.app.ActivityThread.main (ActivityThread.java:7529)

at java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke (Native method)

at com.android.internal.os.Zygote$MethodAndArgsCaller.run (Zygote.java:245)

at com.android.internal.os.ZygoteInit.main (ZygoteInit.java:921)

"Jit thread pool worker thread 0" tid=2 Native

"ReferenceQueueDaemon" tid=4 Waiting

"FinalizerDaemon" tid=5 Waiting

"FinalizerWatchdogDaemon" tid=6 Waiting

"Binder:31502_1" tid=8 Native

"Binder:31502_2" tid=9 Native

"hwuiTask1" tid=10 Native

"Profile Saver" tid=11 Native

"Thread-4" tid=12 Native

"Thread-5" tid=13 Native

"Thread-7" tid=14 Native

"RenderThread" tid=15 Native

"Binder:31502_3" tid=16 Native

"hwuiTask2" tid=17 Native

"OkHttp ConnectionPool" tid=18 TimedWaiting

"Binder:31502_4" tid=19 Native

"HwBinder:31502_1" tid=20 Native

"Binder:31502_5" tid=21 Native

"Binder:31502_6" tid=22 Native

"queued-work-looper" tid=23 Native

"RenderThread"

"Signal Catcher" tid=3 Runnable

"HeapTaskDaemon" tid=7 Blocked

"HeapTaskDaemon" daemon prio=5 tid=7 Blocked | group="system" sCount=1 
dsCount=0 flags=1 obj=0x12c72dd0 self=0x7bcc6aa200 | sysTid=31513 nice=4 
cgrp=default sched=0/0 handle=0x7bb141e4f0 | state=S schedstat=( 517185 32501 
10 ) utm=0 stm=0 core=4 HZ=100 | stack=0x7bb131c000-0x7bb131e000 
stackSize=1037KB | held mutexes=

#00 pc 0001e2ec /system/lib64/libc.so (syscall+28)

#01 pc 000e4608 /system/lib64/libart.so 
(_ZN3art17ConditionVariable16WaitHoldingLocksEPNS_6ThreadE+152)

#02 pc 002628c8 /system/lib64/libart.so 
(_ZN3art2gc13TaskProcessor7GetTaskEPNS_6ThreadE+292)

#03 pc 002631f0 /system/lib64/libart.so 
(_ZN3art2gc13TaskProcessor11RunAllTasksEPNS_6ThreadE+92)

#04 pc 0020c96c /system/framework/arm64/boot-core-libart.oat 
(Java_dalvik_system_VMRuntime_runHeapTasks__+124)

at dalvik.system.VMRuntime.runHeapTasks (Native method)

- waiting to lock an unknown object

at java.lang.Daemons$HeapTaskDaemon.runInternal (Daemons.java:473)

at java.lang.Daemons$Daemon.run (Daemons.java:103)

at java.lang.Thread.run (Thread.java:784)










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Re: Learning from scratch - any recommendations?

[dunbarx--- via use-livecode]

I am with Richmond, mainly.
I hate to learn another language. That is why I live in the United States.
LC, if you introduce only a  handful or three of native words, controls and 
concepts, is accessible to anyone with a real desire to learn this sort of 
thing. Even a first grader; they just need more mentoring. Even someone who did 
not know they would like to build stuff in software.
The trick is the engagement, to make it seem cool and fun.
Craig


-Original Message-
From: Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
To: How to use LiveCode 
Cc: Richmond Mathewson 
Sent: Fri, Nov 1, 2019 12:59 pm
Subject: Re: Learning from scratch - any recommendations?

I have a radical disagreement with Scratch and its ilk as, while it does
allow one to run up simple computer games, it does not let users see the
"guts" of a program, and seems not to give children transferrable skill for
non-block programming languages. I have successfully started kids from 9
years old and upward on programming with both BBC BASIC and Livecode.

On Fri, Nov 1, 2019, 6:00 PM kee nethery via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> My recommendation is to have them start with scratch.mit.edu and spend a
> month making stuff with that language. Scratch is built for 1st graders to
> pick up and it is extremely satisfying as the starter language. They get
> exposed to all sorts of concepts, message passing, variables, flow control,
> multi-processing, it’s a great starter language. A month making stuff and
> then move to livecode.
>
> Kee
>
> > On Nov 1, 2019, at 3:23 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > I was disappointed that I only got one reply to my query about LC as a
> platform for learning programming - I thought this was a big thing with
> quite a few people on this list, some of whom are actually educators. Since
> I’ve failed in this, can someone suggest a better way of getting an answer
> (e.g. forums, mother ship)?
> >
> > TIA
> >
> > Graham
> >
> > I wrote:
> >
> >> I have been approached by one of my family to ask what would be the
> first steps for someone (a young adult) to enable them to enter the world
> of app design and programming. Obviously I need to ask more questions
> myself, such as whether this would be to get a job, or simply as an
> educational exercise, or maybe to provide a launchpad for a startup idea.
> However, even at this stage, of course my thoughts turned to LiveCode.
> >>
> >> So my question to the community is, how would such a person start off -
> assuming they’re intelligent, very familiar with consumer-level technology
> such as smart phones, tablets, laptop computers for study etc. and social
> media, but probably have never seen or thought about what is involved in
> designing, implementing and publishing an app (I would just say “a
> program”, but that shows how old I am) on any platform? If it is LC (and
> why not?), are the published lessons sufficient? What is the view of those
> on this list who do actually teach this stuff?
> >>
> >> The trouble for me is that I have been around all this for 50 years
> (more, to be truthful) and so can’t project myself well into the mind of
> that kind of newbie. One guess is that one way to start would be to find a
> cheap hardware platform (probably an Android tablet) and try to use the LC
> Community Edition to allow me to create something for that; but that idea
> may be stupid, particularly as one would need a different platform to
> actually do the development work.
> >>
> >> Hoping for some insights
> >>
> >> Graham
> >
> > ___
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> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
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> subscription preferences:
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>
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Re: generating a standalone in v9.x

[Douglas Ruisaard via use-livecode]

Thanks Bob and Heather and also a thanks to Giovanni Cannizzaro.

Giovanni had the minimal fix to just remove a "quit" from any "shutDownRequest".

Heather from LC also offered the following code in a related situation to 
Giovanni's:
on closeStack
if the mode of stack "revStandaloneProgress" > 0 then
exit closeStack
end if 
end closeStack

The simple fix of removing the "quit" actually allowed the standalone to 
generate a working executable... HOWEVER, now the build stops with a 
never-ending "Attaching engine" spinner.  I have to completely exit LC to stop 
the "unfinished" process.

I have tried inserting BOTH Heather's and Bob's suggestions but they do NOT 
resolve the "Attaching engine" issue.

Any suggestions?

ps... LC business 8.1.10 still generated the standalone PERFECTLY... even with 
the v9 changes in the script.  Glad I kept it around!!!  NOT lovin' v9x much at 
all!


Douglas Ruisaard
Trilogy Software
(250) 573-3935

> Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2019 22:12:17 +
> From: Bob Sneidar 
> To: How to use LiveCode 
> Subject: Re: generating a standalone in v9.x
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> There is a set of commands that in certain scripts like opesStack and 
> closeStack that will check to
> see if the standalone builder is running, and then you can abort the handler.
> 
> The reason they do this is because your app could be doing anything at the 
> moment the standalone is
> being built. The standalone has to walk through every script to check what 
> add-ons or libraries you
> use so it can include them.
> 
> Here's what I do. In the stackScript of the mainStack:
> 
> on savingStandalone
>put true into gBuildingStandAlone
> end savingStandalone
> 
> on standaloneSaved
>put false into gBuildingStandAlone
> end standaloneSaved
> 
> Then in any openStack handler, either in the stack or card, I put this:
> 
>put the environment is "development" and \
>  there is a stack "revStandaloneProgress" and \
>  the mode of stack "revStandaloneProgress" > 0 into skipLogin
> 
>if not skipLogin then
>--- code that borks your standalone building. For me it was calling a 
> login dialog as modal.
>end if
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
> > On Oct 31, 2019, at 14:50 , Douglas Ruisaard via use-livecode 
> >  wrote:
> >
> > I am having an issue with using "any" business version of 9 (9.04, 9.05, 
> > 9.5-32bit, 9.5-64bit) to
> generate a standalone output of my application.  I am using Windows 7 
> Enterprise SP1 and have tried
> building the identical script (with the same result) on two different 
> installations of said OS on two
> different machines.
> >
> > LC business v 8.1.10 generates the standalone fine.
> >
> > LC business version 9.0.5 (with IDENTICAL settings in the "Standalone 
> > Application Settings" as used
> in the v8.1.10 build) seems to crash LC  just at the point of "closing open 
> stacks" at which point all
> things LC disappear from my desktop.  An appropriate "destination" directory 
> for the standalone is
> created as per the settings but it is completely empty.
> >
> > The actual application runs fine in all LC business versions... it's just 
> > that I can't get the LC
> v9.x to generated the standalone... and ... I can't find ANY error or log 
> explaining what is wrong!!
> >
> > Is there such a log or audit which details the steps that LC is taking and 
> > possibly what the issue
> is that it cannot resolve?  I have checked at the Administrators tools event 
> logging provided by
> Windows 7 ... but there is no corresponding event which is simultaneous with 
> the LC "crash".
> >
> > I follow this user-group quite closely and seem to recall others having 
> > issues with LC v9's
> standalone processes but I cannot seem to find such references within the 
> very large amount of chat
> this site contains.  I have NOT checked the LC QC bugs since I really don't 
> know what I'm looking for
> other than potential issues with the standalone builder.
> >
> > I'd very much appreciate any tips, pointers, explanations as to how to 
> > either resolve this issue or
> where within my LC environment I can find any logs concerning the standalone 
> processing.
> >
> > Cheers!
> > Douglas Ruisaard
> > Trilogy Software
> > (250) 573-3935
> 


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Re: "empty" background in printed pdf is actually grey

[doc hawk via use-livecode]

On Nov 1, 2019, at 10:03 AM, Richard rumbled
> 
> I'm certain that I don't understand the layout, because from the description 
> it sounds like you have an object which is not visible and therefore cannot 
> be printed but which is causing a problem when printed.
> 
> I'm sure you've considered simply hiding the thing you don't want shown 
> during printing, so clearly there's something else in play here.
> 
> What does the object contribute to printing?


What I need to do is place livecode output over an existing pdf.

I had been making as close as possible duplicates of the forms (still ideal, 
but runs into issues with trustees), which worked smoothly.

I can’t use pdf widgets, as the rasterization to 72dpi (or less, it appears) 
makes text to fuzzy to read.

This leaves me with using the court’s and trustees’ pdfs, and putting output on 
them (and simply using the pdf “standard” to fill fields isn’t an option, as 
some are just plain wrong, and other’s are only accessible with the most up to 
date version of acrobat).

So my current approach is to display on screen using a widget behind the data I 
place, and then an external program, such as PyPDF2, to merge the original pdfs 
and my livecode output.

While on screen, my generated objects act correctly, being just black text with 
transparent background.   When merging, though, the livecode pdf has grey 
instead of clear for the entire object generated with print to pdf.
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Re: "empty" background in printed pdf is actually grey

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

doc hawk wrote:

> On Oct 31, 2019, at 5:42 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>>
>> A light gray is the system default on OS X windows. You might have
>> better luck setting the stack background to opaque and white
>
> But if the background is opaque, it will block the text underneath
> it for the form I’m filling.

I'm certain that I don't understand the layout, because from the 
description it sounds like you have an object which is not visible and 
therefore cannot be printed but which is causing a problem when printed.


I'm sure you've considered simply hiding the thing you don't want shown 
during printing, so clearly there's something else in play here.


What does the object contribute to printing?

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Learning from scratch - any recommendations?

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

I have a radical disagreement with Scratch and its ilk as, while it does
allow one to run up simple computer games, it does not let users see the
"guts" of a program, and seems not to give children transferrable skill for
non-block programming languages. I have successfully started kids from 9
years old and upward on programming with both BBC BASIC and Livecode.

On Fri, Nov 1, 2019, 6:00 PM kee nethery via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> My recommendation is to have them start with scratch.mit.edu and spend a
> month making stuff with that language. Scratch is built for 1st graders to
> pick up and it is extremely satisfying as the starter language. They get
> exposed to all sorts of concepts, message passing, variables, flow control,
> multi-processing, it’s a great starter language. A month making stuff and
> then move to livecode.
>
> Kee
>
> > On Nov 1, 2019, at 3:23 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > I was disappointed that I only got one reply to my query about LC as a
> platform for learning programming - I thought this was a big thing with
> quite a few people on this list, some of whom are actually educators. Since
> I’ve failed in this, can someone suggest a better way of getting an answer
> (e.g. forums, mother ship)?
> >
> > TIA
> >
> > Graham
> >
> > I wrote:
> >
> >> I have been approached by one of my family to ask what would be the
> first steps for someone (a young adult) to enable them to enter the world
> of app design and programming. Obviously I need to ask more questions
> myself, such as whether this would be to get a job, or simply as an
> educational exercise, or maybe to provide a launchpad for a startup idea.
> However, even at this stage, of course my thoughts turned to LiveCode.
> >>
> >> So my question to the community is, how would such a person start off -
> assuming they’re intelligent, very familiar with consumer-level technology
> such as smart phones, tablets, laptop computers for study etc. and social
> media, but probably have never seen or thought about what is involved in
> designing, implementing and publishing an app (I would just say “a
> program”, but that shows how old I am) on any platform? If it is LC (and
> why not?), are the published lessons sufficient? What is the view of those
> on this list who do actually teach this stuff?
> >>
> >> The trouble for me is that I have been around all this for 50 years
> (more, to be truthful) and so can’t project myself well into the mind of
> that kind of newbie. One guess is that one way to start would be to find a
> cheap hardware platform (probably an Android tablet) and try to use the LC
> Community Edition to allow me to create something for that; but that idea
> may be stupid, particularly as one would need a different platform to
> actually do the development work.
> >>
> >> Hoping for some insights
> >>
> >> Graham
> >
> > ___
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> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
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>
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SSH and SCP in LiveCode

[Mike Felker via use-livecode]

Hello group.



Just joined but long-time LiveCode user.



I need SSH / SCP capability for LiveCode.



Anyone know how to use this (either the old external or by any other means)?



I do not thing TSNet will help in this case.



Thanks.



Mike




Rubidex - The Reliable Blockchain Company

Mike Felker

CTO Rubidex

813-810-3457

138 Whitaker Road, Suite A

Lutz, FL 33549

rubidex.net
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Re: Learning from scratch - any recommendations?

[kee nethery via use-livecode]

My recommendation is to have them start with scratch.mit.edu and spend a month 
making stuff with that language. Scratch is built for 1st graders to pick up 
and it is extremely satisfying as the starter language. They get exposed to all 
sorts of concepts, message passing, variables, flow control, multi-processing, 
it’s a great starter language. A month making stuff and then move to livecode.

Kee

> On Nov 1, 2019, at 3:23 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I was disappointed that I only got one reply to my query about LC as a 
> platform for learning programming - I thought this was a big thing with quite 
> a few people on this list, some of whom are actually educators. Since I’ve 
> failed in this, can someone suggest a better way of getting an answer (e.g. 
> forums, mother ship)?
> 
> TIA
> 
> Graham
> 
> I wrote:
> 
>> I have been approached by one of my family to ask what would be the first 
>> steps for someone (a young adult) to enable them to enter the world of app 
>> design and programming. Obviously I need to ask more questions myself, such 
>> as whether this would be to get a job, or simply as an educational exercise, 
>> or maybe to provide a launchpad for a startup idea. However, even at this 
>> stage, of course my thoughts turned to LiveCode.
>> 
>> So my question to the community is, how would such a person start off - 
>> assuming they’re intelligent, very familiar with consumer-level technology 
>> such as smart phones, tablets, laptop computers for study etc. and social 
>> media, but probably have never seen or thought about what is involved in 
>> designing, implementing and publishing an app (I would just say “a program”, 
>> but that shows how old I am) on any platform? If it is LC (and why not?), 
>> are the published lessons sufficient? What is the view of those on this list 
>> who do actually teach this stuff? 
>> 
>> The trouble for me is that I have been around all this for 50 years (more, 
>> to be truthful) and so can’t project myself well into the mind of that kind 
>> of newbie. One guess is that one way to start would be to find a cheap 
>> hardware platform (probably an Android tablet) and try to use the LC 
>> Community Edition to allow me to create something for that; but that idea 
>> may be stupid, particularly as one would need a different platform to 
>> actually do the development work.
>> 
>> Hoping for some insights
>> 
>> Graham
> 
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> preferences:
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Re: Release 9.5.1 RC-1

[Jjs via use-livecode]

Ok i'm surprised, as i looked yesterday the milestone was at about 55%. So i 
did not expect this release. Thanks!

Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode  schreef op 
1 november 2019 16:38:39 CET:
>Congratulations.
>
>On Fri, Nov 1, 2019, 5:08 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
>use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm a bit confused about the booleans. This seems to indicate that
>true <>
>> "true". I've been sloppy in my code, so I may have to go through and
>find
>> every instance of a boolean and decide how I want to treat it. Also,
>how
>> will this affect database operations? "true" in a column is a string.
>true
>> in a column is an integer or bool.
>>
>> Bob S
>>
>>
>> > On Nov 1, 2019, at 07:08 , panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Dear list members,
>> >
>> > We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.5.1 RC-1.
>> >
>> >
>> > Getting the Release
>> > ===
>> > You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/
>or
>> via
>> > the automatic updater.
>> >
>> >
>> > Release Contents
>> > 
>> > LiveCode 9.5.1 RC-1 comes with more than 20 bugfixes, including
>> corrections
>> > and enhancements in dozens of Dictionary entries.
>> > Also, the long standing crash-when-debugging issue, originally
>fixed in
>> > 9.0.5, is now fixed in 9.5.1 RC-1 as well.
>>
>>
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
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-- 
Verstuurd vanaf mijn Android apparaat met K-9 Mail.
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Re: Release 9.5.1 RC-1

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

Congratulations.

On Fri, Nov 1, 2019, 5:08 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I'm a bit confused about the booleans. This seems to indicate that true <>
> "true". I've been sloppy in my code, so I may have to go through and find
> every instance of a boolean and decide how I want to treat it. Also, how
> will this affect database operations? "true" in a column is a string. true
> in a column is an integer or bool.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Nov 1, 2019, at 07:08 , panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Dear list members,
> >
> > We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.5.1 RC-1.
> >
> >
> > Getting the Release
> > ===
> > You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or
> via
> > the automatic updater.
> >
> >
> > Release Contents
> > 
> > LiveCode 9.5.1 RC-1 comes with more than 20 bugfixes, including
> corrections
> > and enhancements in dozens of Dictionary entries.
> > Also, the long standing crash-when-debugging issue, originally fixed in
> > 9.0.5, is now fixed in 9.5.1 RC-1 as well.
>
>
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> subscription preferences:
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Re: my message not showing up in "use-livecode"

[panagiotis merakos via use-livecode]

me too

Panos
--

On Fri, 1 Nov 2019 at 17:16, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I saw the message here.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Nov 1, 2019, at 08:12 , Douglas Ruisaard via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > This has happened a few times before... the following message never got
> posted to "   use-livecode@lists.runrev.com".  Can you explain why?  It
> must have gone somewhere because Giovanni Cannizzaro [
> johnthejoc...@yahoo.it] responded but I certainly can see how *he* saw it
> but no one else apparently did.
> >
> > unposted message:
>
>
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> subscription preferences:
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Re: my message not showing up in "use-livecode"

[Heather Laine via use-livecode]

This sounds like it might be due to the breaking change in standalone building 
described in the release notes for 9.0:

https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_0_0/LiveCodeNotes-9_0_0.pdf 


I quote:

The standalone builder has always needed to close the stacks it builds for 
reasons pretty deeply ingrained in the code. However this causes a few 
problems, for example: 

values in script locals become empty 
behaviors are broken when the parent script is on / in a stack which closes 

As an attempt to improve this situation, the code that locks messages when 
closing and opening stacks for standalone builds has been removed. This means 
that where previously mainstacks would not receive openStack and closeStack 
messages during standalone build, they now do. If this causes problems for your 
stack, you can exit from the handler if standalone building is in progress: 

on closeStack 
if the mode of stack "revStandaloneProgress" > 0
then exit closeStack
end if 
end closeStack

I hope this helps,

Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 1 Nov 2019, at 15:12, Douglas Ruisaard  wrote:
> 
> This has happened a few times before... the following message never got 
> posted to "   use-livecode@lists.runrev.com".  Can you explain why?  It must 
> have gone somewhere because Giovanni Cannizzaro [johnthejoc...@yahoo.it] 
> responded but I certainly can see how *he* saw it but no one else apparently 
> did.
> 
> unposted message:
> 
> I am having an issue with using "any" business version of 9 (9.04, 9.05, 
> 9.5-32bit, 9.5-64bit) to generate a standalone output of my application.  I 
> am using Windows 7 Enterprise SP1 and have tried building the identical 
> script (with the same result) on two different installations of said OS on 
> two different machines. 
> 
> LC business v 8.1.10 generates the standalone fine. 
> 
> LC business version 9.0.5 (with IDENTICAL settings in the "Standalone 
> Application Settings" as used in the v8.1.10 build) seems to crash LC  just 
> at the point of "closing open stacks" at which point all things LC disappear 
> from my desktop.  An appropriate "destination" directory for the standalone 
> is created as per the settings but it is completely empty. 
> 
> The actual application runs fine in all LC business versions... it's just 
> that I can't get the LC v9.x to generated the standalone... and ... I can't 
> find ANY error or log explaining what is wrong!! 
> 
> Is there such a log or audit which details the steps that LC is taking and 
> possibly what the issue is that it cannot resolve?  I have checked at the 
> Administrators tools event logging provided by Windows 7 ... but there is no 
> corresponding event which is simultaneous with the LC "crash". 
> 
> I follow this user-group quite closely and seem to recall others having 
> issues with LC v9's standalone processes but I cannot seem to find such 
> references within the very large amount of chat this site contains.  I have 
> NOT checked the LC QC bugs since I really don't know what I'm looking for 
> other than potential issues with the standalone builder. 
> 
> I'd very much appreciate any tips, pointers, explanations as to how to either 
> resolve this issue or where within my LC environment I can find any logs 
> concerning the standalone processing. 
> 
> Cheers! 
> Douglas Ruisaard 
> Trilogy Software 
> (250) 573-3935 
> 
> 
> 

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Re: my message not showing up in "use-livecode"

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

I saw the message here. 

Bob S


> On Nov 1, 2019, at 08:12 , Douglas Ruisaard via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> This has happened a few times before... the following message never got 
> posted to "   use-livecode@lists.runrev.com".  Can you explain why?  It must 
> have gone somewhere because Giovanni Cannizzaro [johnthejoc...@yahoo.it] 
> responded but I certainly can see how *he* saw it but no one else apparently 
> did.
> 
> unposted message:


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my message not showing up in "use-livecode"

[Douglas Ruisaard via use-livecode]

This has happened a few times before... the following message never got posted 
to " use-livecode@lists.runrev.com".  Can you explain why?  It must have 
gone somewhere because Giovanni Cannizzaro [johnthejoc...@yahoo.it] responded 
but I certainly can see how *he* saw it but no one else apparently did.

unposted message:

I am having an issue with using "any" business version of 9 (9.04, 9.05, 
9.5-32bit, 9.5-64bit) to generate a standalone output of my application.  I am 
using Windows 7 Enterprise SP1 and have tried building the identical script 
(with the same result) on two different installations of said OS on two 
different machines. 

LC business v 8.1.10 generates the standalone fine. 

LC business version 9.0.5 (with IDENTICAL settings in the "Standalone 
Application Settings" as used in the v8.1.10 build) seems to crash LC  just at 
the point of "closing open stacks" at which point all things LC disappear from 
my desktop.  An appropriate "destination" directory for the standalone is 
created as per the settings but it is completely empty. 

The actual application runs fine in all LC business versions... it's just that 
I can't get the LC v9.x to generated the standalone... and ... I can't find ANY 
error or log explaining what is wrong!! 

Is there such a log or audit which details the steps that LC is taking and 
possibly what the issue is that it cannot resolve?  I have checked at the 
Administrators tools event logging provided by Windows 7 ... but there is no 
corresponding event which is simultaneous with the LC "crash". 

I follow this user-group quite closely and seem to recall others having issues 
with LC v9's standalone processes but I cannot seem to find such references 
within the very large amount of chat this site contains.  I have NOT checked 
the LC QC bugs since I really don't know what I'm looking for other than 
potential issues with the standalone builder. 

I'd very much appreciate any tips, pointers, explanations as to how to either 
resolve this issue or where within my LC environment I can find any logs 
concerning the standalone processing. 

Cheers! 
Douglas Ruisaard 
Trilogy Software 
(250) 573-3935 




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Re: Release 9.5.1 RC-1

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

I'm a bit confused about the booleans. This seems to indicate that true <> 
"true". I've been sloppy in my code, so I may have to go through and find every 
instance of a boolean and decide how I want to treat it. Also, how will this 
affect database operations? "true" in a column is a string. true in a column is 
an integer or bool. 

Bob S


> On Nov 1, 2019, at 07:08 , panagiotis merakos via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Dear list members,
> 
> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.5.1 RC-1.
> 
> 
> Getting the Release
> ===
> You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or via
> the automatic updater.
> 
> 
> Release Contents
> 
> LiveCode 9.5.1 RC-1 comes with more than 20 bugfixes, including corrections
> and enhancements in dozens of Dictionary entries.
> Also, the long standing crash-when-debugging issue, originally fixed in
> 9.0.5, is now fixed in 9.5.1 RC-1 as well.


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Re: Learning from scratch - any recommendations?

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

I'm not really qualified to answer that, so I was mum, but if I had to answer 
and couldn't be held to account... ;-)

I would say that any young person who wants to become a programmer or app 
designer (not sure the distinction) will need a degree, pure and simple. 
Otherwise they will not even get past HR. Livecode is not going to help them do 
that. What Livecode is GREAT for methinks, is introducing someone to 
development without bogging them down in all the specifics of other mid level 
languages. 

There are I'm sure great articles you can search for about basic coding 
principles. Things like make code readable, thinking about and diagramming out 
what the program will actually do, consistent and understandable variable and 
command naming, breaking everything down into discreet tasks, inclusion of 
error checking etc. 

Bob S


> On Nov 1, 2019, at 03:23 , Graham Samuel via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I was disappointed that I only got one reply to my query about LC as a 
> platform for learning programming - I thought this was a big thing with quite 
> a few people on this list, some of whom are actually educators. Since I’ve 
> failed in this, can someone suggest a better way of getting an answer (e.g. 
> forums, mother ship)?
> 
> TIA
> 
> Graham
> 
> I wrote:
> 
>> I have been approached by one of my family to ask what would be the first 
>> steps for someone (a young adult) to enable them to enter the world of app 
>> design and programming. Obviously I need to ask more questions myself, such 
>> as whether this would be to get a job, or simply as an educational exercise, 
>> or maybe to provide a launchpad for a startup idea. However, even at this 
>> stage, of course my thoughts turned to LiveCode.
>> 
>> So my question to the community is, how would such a person start off - 
>> assuming they’re intelligent, very familiar with consumer-level technology 
>> such as smart phones, tablets, laptop computers for study etc. and social 
>> media, but probably have never seen or thought about what is involved in 
>> designing, implementing and publishing an app (I would just say “a program”, 
>> but that shows how old I am) on any platform? If it is LC (and why not?), 
>> are the published lessons sufficient? What is the view of those on this list 
>> who do actually teach this stuff? 
>> 
>> The trouble for me is that I have been around all this for 50 years (more, 
>> to be truthful) and so can’t project myself well into the mind of that kind 
>> of newbie. One guess is that one way to start would be to find a cheap 
>> hardware platform (probably an Android tablet) and try to use the LC 
>> Community Edition to allow me to create something for that; but that idea 
>> may be stupid, particularly as one would need a different platform to 
>> actually do the development work.
>> 
>> Hoping for some insights
>> 
>> Graham

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Release 9.5.1 RC-1

[panagiotis merakos via use-livecode]

Dear list members,

We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.5.1 RC-1.


Getting the Release
===
You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or via
the automatic updater.


Release Contents

LiveCode 9.5.1 RC-1 comes with more than 20 bugfixes, including corrections
and enhancements in dozens of Dictionary entries.
Also, the long standing crash-when-debugging issue, originally fixed in
9.0.5, is now fixed in 9.5.1 RC-1 as well.

Note that support for building with Xcode 11.1 was originally planned for
this release. However, because of some changes in the iOS 13 SDK (Apple has
removed the MPMoviePlayerController that was used by our iOS player), we
had to refactor our iOS player implementation. Due to the invasiveness of
this change, it was deemed outside the remit of a maintenance release and
thus support for Xcode 11+ will appear in 9.6 - the first dp of which will
appear shortly.

In any case, note that you do NOT need to build your standalone with Xcode
11+ to support deployment to iOS 13+ devices. You can still use Xcode 10.1
to build the standalone app, and it will continue to run on iOS 13+
devices.


Known issues

- The Browser widget's native layer is not shown in some Linux distros with
Cinnamon window manager.
- The use of the Browser widget is not supported on Ubuntu 18.04+ 64 bit
LTS yet.

The full release notes are available from:

http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_5_1/LiveCodeNotes-9_5_1_rc_1.pdf


Feedback

Please report any bugs encountered on our BugZilla at
http://quality.livecode.com/

We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at
http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93

Have fun!
The LiveCode Team


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Re: Learning from scratch - any recommendations?

[Graham Samuel via use-livecode]

I was disappointed that I only got one reply to my query about LC as a platform 
for learning programming - I thought this was a big thing with quite a few 
people on this list, some of whom are actually educators. Since I’ve failed in 
this, can someone suggest a better way of getting an answer (e.g. forums, 
mother ship)?

TIA

Graham

I wrote:

> I have been approached by one of my family to ask what would be the first 
> steps for someone (a young adult) to enable them to enter the world of app 
> design and programming. Obviously I need to ask more questions myself, such 
> as whether this would be to get a job, or simply as an educational exercise, 
> or maybe to provide a launchpad for a startup idea. However, even at this 
> stage, of course my thoughts turned to LiveCode.
> 
> So my question to the community is, how would such a person start off - 
> assuming they’re intelligent, very familiar with consumer-level technology 
> such as smart phones, tablets, laptop computers for study etc. and social 
> media, but probably have never seen or thought about what is involved in 
> designing, implementing and publishing an app (I would just say “a program”, 
> but that shows how old I am) on any platform? If it is LC (and why not?), are 
> the published lessons sufficient? What is the view of those on this list who 
> do actually teach this stuff? 
> 
> The trouble for me is that I have been around all this for 50 years (more, to 
> be truthful) and so can’t project myself well into the mind of that kind of 
> newbie. One guess is that one way to start would be to find a cheap hardware 
> platform (probably an Android tablet) and try to use the LC Community Edition 
> to allow me to create something for that; but that idea may be stupid, 
> particularly as one would need a different platform to actually do the 
> development work.
> 
> Hoping for some insights
> 
> Graham

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