Re: encrypt a standalone html5

2019-11-19 Thread Pi Digital via use-livecode
What specific help do you need Riko?

Sean Cole
Pi Digital Prod Ltd

> On 20 Nov 2019, at 03:43, Riko Abadi via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> @Pi Digital
> 
> I will gladly accept your help. Thanks
> 
> Pada tanggal Rab, 20 Nov 2019 pukul 10.14 Pi Digital via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> menulis:
> 
>> I’ve made an aes encryption library for HTML5 deployment for handling the
>> data I pull from our server via php and js. But AES is not as robust as I
>> would like for the kind of sensitive data we are dealing with so I’m going
>> to make an RSA soon. AES cyphers are easy to create and require very little
>> research. See proprivacy.com/guides/aes-encryption
>> I’d give you the code I’ve done but I don’t really own it as my client is
>> paying for it. Maybe later I’ll be able.
>> 
>> Sean Cole
>> Pi Digital Prod Ltd
>> 
>>> On 19 Nov 2019, at 18:12, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> If you have a need to protect secrets beyond what most desktop apps
>> need, consider moving those secrets to a server and accessing them from
>> your client app.
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Re: encrypt a standalone html5

2019-11-19 Thread Riko Abadi via use-livecode
@Pi Digital

I will gladly accept your help. Thanks

Pada tanggal Rab, 20 Nov 2019 pukul 10.14 Pi Digital via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> menulis:

> I’ve made an aes encryption library for HTML5 deployment for handling the
> data I pull from our server via php and js. But AES is not as robust as I
> would like for the kind of sensitive data we are dealing with so I’m going
> to make an RSA soon. AES cyphers are easy to create and require very little
> research. See proprivacy.com/guides/aes-encryption
> I’d give you the code I’ve done but I don’t really own it as my client is
> paying for it. Maybe later I’ll be able.
>
> Sean Cole
> Pi Digital Prod Ltd
>
> > On 19 Nov 2019, at 18:12, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > If you have a need to protect secrets beyond what most desktop apps
> need, consider moving those secrets to a server and accessing them from
> your client app.
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> subscription preferences:
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Re: encrypt a standalone html5

2019-11-19 Thread Pi Digital via use-livecode
I’ve made an aes encryption library for HTML5 deployment for handling the data 
I pull from our server via php and js. But AES is not as robust as I would like 
for the kind of sensitive data we are dealing with so I’m going to make an RSA 
soon. AES cyphers are easy to create and require very little research. See 
proprivacy.com/guides/aes-encryption
I’d give you the code I’ve done but I don’t really own it as my client is 
paying for it. Maybe later I’ll be able. 

Sean Cole
Pi Digital Prod Ltd

> On 19 Nov 2019, at 18:12, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> If you have a need to protect secrets beyond what most desktop apps need, 
> consider moving those secrets to a server and accessing them from your client 
> app.
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Re: Special Graphic Effects - Kill Performance On Rapid Redraws

2019-11-19 Thread Riko Abadi via use-livecode
@sannyasin

 I have tried your application on Android SivaSiva 1.6 but I prefer your
application "spiritual workout" I feel smoother and faster.

Pada tanggal Rab, 20 Nov 2019 pukul 09.42 Pi Digital via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> menulis:

> I was going to continue your analogy but it’s better to put it simply.
> When you see the effects other apps are able to accomplish on the same
> device you question the validity of arguing away the lack of performance
> from our apps. So looking into why is a valid request and worth some
> investigation.
>
> Sean Cole
> Pi Digital Prod Ltd
>
> > On 19 Nov 2019, at 18:21, hh via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > This lesson is very short and simple:
> >
> > A bicycle (mobile) usually drives much slower and can
> > transport much less weight than a car (desktop machine).
> >
> > ___
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social share button

2019-11-19 Thread Riko Abadi via use-livecode
Hello,

is it possible livecode to add a social sharing button like the usual
android application?
like this:
https://developer.android.com/training/sharing/send.html#java

Thanks
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Re: Special Graphic Effects - Kill Performance On Rapid Redraws

2019-11-19 Thread Pi Digital via use-livecode
I was going to continue your analogy but it’s better to put it simply. When you 
see the effects other apps are able to accomplish on the same device you 
question the validity of arguing away the lack of performance from our apps. So 
looking into why is a valid request and worth some investigation. 

Sean Cole
Pi Digital Prod Ltd

> On 19 Nov 2019, at 18:21, hh via use-livecode  
> wrote:
> 
> This lesson is very short and simple:
> 
> A bicycle (mobile) usually drives much slower and can
> transport much less weight than a car (desktop machine).
> 
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Re: Commands on server and lack of examples

2019-11-19 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode

Alex Tweedly wrote:

On 19/11/2019 18:19, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:

I may be able to help with the workaround, writing a script to set
that up.  But I'm finding that there are so many different shared
hosting configs, each with their own precious special needs, that
making a single installation script for all of them is non-trivial.

...

That's not *simply* selfishness, because I believe there are perhaps
only a handful of ISPs who provide a high percentage of the Livecode
(shared) servers found in the real world, and I'm optimistic to think
that solving this problem for those cases would be enough to make a
difference, and specifically would help anyone coming to LC server as
a new user.

Google tells me (in a 30 second search, limited to the first two pages)
that only on-rev (aka Livecode hosting) and HostM specifically 
advertise
themselves for Livecode servers. Maybe those two would be a good start 
?


I suppose they would.

I don't use either, but you've inspired me. :)

I use Dreamhost and Interserver, and conceivably if I write a script 
that works with both of those we may find that's fine for most others.  
And then for edge cases we can maintain the code on GitHub so anyone who 
needs a change for another host can just add that part.


In order of prevalence I'd guess that LC deploys are most common on:

on-rev.com (very big)
hostm.com (kinda big)
dreamhost.com (several)
jaguarpc.com (a few)
...and after that we're looking at a long but slim tail.

I'll give it some thought for when my client work is behind me and I 
have some spare time.


It would also be nice to write a script for installing LC Server on 
systems that don't have it preinstalled (pretty much everyone right now 
except on-rev and hostm).  Even better would be to handle both shared 
and VPS hosting.  If Let's Encrypt can be automated for so many systems 
with CertBot (an excellent piece of work), surely we can install LC 
Server.


--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com
http://www.FourthWorld.com


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Re: Commands on server and lack of examples

2019-11-19 Thread Alex Tweedly via use-livecode

On 19/11/2019 18:19, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:



I may be able to help with the workaround, writing a script to set 
that up.  But I'm finding that there are so many different shared 
hosting configs, each with their own precious special needs, that 
making a single installation script for all of them is non-trivial.



Call me a cynic :-) - but I'm an optimistic cynic 

I know *absolutely* nothing about the workaround or what's involved - 
but it's easy to believe there are a myriad of special config needs. 
However, I'm a cynic so I'll admit that I don't care about all the many 
hundreds or thousands of them - I only care about two; the two ISPs I 
use for my own sites.


That's not *simply* selfishness, because I believe there are perhaps 
only a handful of ISPs who provide a high percentage of the Livecode 
(shared) servers found in the real world, and I'm optimistic to think 
that solving this problem for those cases would be enough to make a 
difference, and specifically would help anyone coming to LC server as a 
new user.


Google tells me (in a 30 second search, limited to the first two pages) 
that only on-rev (aka Livecode hosting) and HostM specifically advertise 
themselves for Livecode servers. Maybe those two would be a good start ?


(and by coincidence are the two I care about :-) :-)

Alex.



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Re: encrypt a standalone html5

2019-11-19 Thread hh via use-livecode
> Richard G. wrote:
> That said, password protection only applies to the on-disk 
> representation of a stack. Once in memory, the algorithms of
> any program made with any tool can be dumped and disassembled.

Little Criminals, I like this song by Randy Newman.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_MDNdPwCRo ;-)

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Reporting for LiveCode Introduced; 50% off in November

2019-11-19 Thread Lynn Fredricks via use-livecode
Paradigma Software introduces a complete solution for deploying LiveCode
applications on macOS, Windows and Linux with comprehensive reporting
features, discounted 50% in November only. Reporting for LiveCode bundles
together several professional solutions that extend LiveCode with advanced
reporting features.

https://valentina-db.com/en/discussions/6600-reporting-for-livecode-build,-t
est-deploy-apps-with-reports,-printing,-labels-and-more

What is Included

- Valentina Studio Pro (select OS) with Report Designer for building,
testing and previewing reports within a visual environment. Also fantastic
db management tool for MySQL, MariaDB, MS SQL Server, PostgreSQL and SQLite
(reg $199.99)

- Valentina Reports ADK for LiveCode components for deploying the reporting
engine on macOS, Windows and Linux (reg $299.99)

- Valentina Server /25 (select OS) that includes Report Server as well as
Valentina SQLite DB Server, Valentina DB Server and Valentina Forms Server
(reg $499.99, included free with bundle)


Reports are scalable from applications to Valentina Server and work
transparently across operating systems for deployment. Valentina Report
Objects include grids, sub-reports, graphs, charts, barcodes and more, and
all objects can be scripted using JavaScript and SQL expressions. View and
run reports right within the free version of Valentina Studio, Valentina
Studio Pro, Valentina Server and within LiveCode applications with the
embedded ADK report engine. Reports can also be exported as graphics, HTML,
Postscript and PDF, with many printing options you would expect for building
business applications, including labels, receipts and more.

Reporting for LiveCode regular price is $599.99, but during November 2019 is
available for the introductory price of only $299.99. You can also add two
additional options and get the same 50% off during November!

All products include 12 months of free updates and are fully up-gradable to
other Paradigma Software products.


Questions about Reporting for LiveCode? Ask on our dedicated forum:
https://bit.ly/35kXKtp


I can also do my best to answer your questions here on the mailing list as
you like.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
Paradigma Software


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Re: encrypt a standalone html5

2019-11-19 Thread hh via use-livecode
> Riko A. wrote:
> How do i protect my application with a password? I use livecode business.

In the File/Standalone Application Settings go to Tab "Stacks".
At bottom right you find a check and a field for the password.

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Re: Special Graphic Effects - Kill Performance On Rapid Redraws

2019-11-19 Thread hh via use-livecode
This lesson is very short and simple:

A bicycle (mobile) usually drives much slower and can
transport much less weight than a car (desktop machine).

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Re: Commands on server and lack of examples

2019-11-19 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode
It's frustrating, having to choose between adoption-impairing excessive 
resource usage, or adoption-impairing usability issues raised by the 
setup complexity of the workaround (custom font config file).


I may be able to help with the workaround, writing a script to set that 
up.  But I'm finding that there are so many different shared hosting 
configs, each with their own precious special needs, that making a 
single installation script for all of them is non-trivial.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems



Mark Wieder wrote:


On 11/14/19 5:47 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:


Wow. Even worse than I'd thought.

LC Server is such a wonderful tool, I feel it could provide a great way 
to introduce other devs to chunk expressions and more.  But after that 
experience on a popular shared host that couldn't handle LC's resource 
usage, I began to feel dismayed by the prospects.


If we can't find a solution in the engine, at least we have a workaround 
with a custom font config file. But it's so many extra steps to set that 
up it rather kills the joy of LC's simplicity.




I forgot to mention libgraphite, which is loaded by default by libharfbuzz.

FWIW, the following 242 font files are checked (open file, read a few 
bytes from start of file, close file) on my linux system for each server 
transaction. This in spite of my executing a simple "hello world" script 
that uses NO fonts:


/etc/fonts/fonts.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d
/etc/fonts/conf.d/10-hinting-slight.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/10-scale-bitmap-fonts.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/11-lcdfilter-default.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/20-unhint-small-dejavu-lgc-sans-mono.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/20-unhint-small-dejavu-lgc-sans.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/20-unhint-small-dejavu-lgc-serif.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/20-unhint-small-dejavu-sans-mono.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/20-unhint-small-dejavu-sans.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/20-unhint-small-dejavu-serif.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/20-unhint-small-vera.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/30-metric-aliases.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/30-opensymbol.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/40-nonlatin.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/45-generic.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/45-latin.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/49-sansserif.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/50-user.conf
/home/mwieder/.config/fontconfig/conf.d
/home/mwieder/.config/fontconfig/fonts.conf
/home/mwieder/.config/font-manager/conf.d
/home/mwieder/.config/font-manager/directories.conf
/home/mwieder/.config/font-manager/local.conf
/home/mwieder/.config/font-manager/select.conf
/home/mwieder/.fonts.conf.d
/home/mwieder/.fonts.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/51-local.conf
/etc/fonts/local.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/57-dejavu-sans-mono.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/57-dejavu-sans.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/57-dejavu-serif.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/58-dejavu-lgc-sans-mono.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/58-dejavu-lgc-sans.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/58-dejavu-lgc-serif.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/59-lohit-devanagari.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/60-generic.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/60-latin.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/64-01-tlwg-kinnari.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/64-02-tlwg-norasi.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/64-10-tlwg-loma.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/64-11-tlwg-waree.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/64-13-tlwg-garuda.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/64-14-tlwg-umpush.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/64-15-laksaman.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/64-21-tlwg-typo.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/64-22-tlwg-typist.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/64-23-tlwg-mono.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/65-0-fonts-beng-extra.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/65-0-fonts-deva-extra.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/65-0-fonts-gubbi.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/65-0-fonts-gujr-extra.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/65-0-fonts-guru-extra.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/65-0-fonts-orya-extra.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/65-0-fonts-pagul.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/65-0-fonts-telu-extra.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/65-0-smc-meera.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/65-0-smc-rachana.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/65-droid-sans-fallback.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/65-fonts-persian.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/65-fonts-takao-pgothic.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/65-khmer.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/65-nonlatin.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/65-wqy-microhei.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/66-lohit-assamese.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/66-lohit-bengali.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/66-lohit-devanagari.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/66-lohit-gujarati.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/66-lohit-gurmukhi.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/66-lohit-kannada.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/66-lohit-odia.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/66-lohit-tamil-classical.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/66-lohit-tamil.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/66-lohit-telugu.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/67-fonts-smc-manjari.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/67-smc-anjalioldlipi.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/67-smc-chilanka.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/67-smc-dyuthi.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/67-smc-karumbi.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/67-smc-keraleeyam.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/67-smc-raghumalayalamsans.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/67-smc-suruma.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/67-smc-uroob.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/69-unifont.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/70-fonts-noto-cjk.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/70-no-bitmaps.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/80-delicious.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/89-tlwg-garuda-synthetic.conf

Re: encrypt a standalone html5

2019-11-19 Thread Riko Abadi via use-livecode
Thanks hh for your respon,

How do i protect my application with a password?  I use livecode business.

Thanks

Pada tanggal Rab, 20 Nov 2019 01.08, hh via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> menulis:

> > Riko A. wrote:
> > Is it possible to encrypt a standalone html5 file.
> > So it can't be downloaded and unzipped. So other
> > people can see our logic script. for example:
> > http://hyperhh.de/html5/CopyPaste-8.0.2X.html
> > http://hyperhh.de/html5/CopyPaste-8.0.2.zip
>
> I did that intentionally and published this method
> in the HTML5 forum to make source code available.
>
> The Indy version of LiveCode has no download link.
> Of course this is no encryption.
>
> BUT you can *password protect* the scripts of your
> standalone with the Indy version. As I did here:
>
> http://hyperhh.de/html5/EasyCropA-9.0.0-dp-4hhX.html
> http://hyperhh.de/html5/EasyCropA-9.0.0-dp-4.zip
>
> If you wish to sell your standalone you need moreover
> the HTML5 license.
>
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Re: encrypt a standalone html5

2019-11-19 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode

Riko Abadi wrote:

> is it possible to encrypt a standalone html5 file. So it can't be
> downloaded and unzipped. So other people can see our logic script.
> for example: http://hyperhh.de/html5/CopyPaste-8.0.2X.html
> http://hyperhh.de/html5/CopyPaste-8.0.2.zip
>
> I can see the stack card and copy the logic.
> I want it when other people download the html5 standalone zip they
> can't read my livecode logic script
> is there another way to make it encrypted?

I believe HH's examples are using the Community Edition, in which source 
is available by design.


As with the desktop edition, I believe LC's HTML export allows use of 
stacks whose scripts have been password-protected.


That said, password protection only applies to the on-disk 
representation of a stack.  Once in memory, the algorithms of any 
program made with any tool can be dumped and disassembled.


If you have a need to protect secrets beyond what most desktop apps 
need, consider moving those secrets to a server and accessing them from 
your client app.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: encrypt a standalone html5

2019-11-19 Thread hh via use-livecode
> Riko A. wrote:
> Is it possible to encrypt a standalone html5 file.
> So it can't be downloaded and unzipped. So other
> people can see our logic script. for example: 
> http://hyperhh.de/html5/CopyPaste-8.0.2X.html
> http://hyperhh.de/html5/CopyPaste-8.0.2.zip

I did that intentionally and published this method
in the HTML5 forum to make source code available.

The Indy version of LiveCode has no download link.
Of course this is no encryption.

BUT you can *password protect* the scripts of your
standalone with the Indy version. As I did here:

http://hyperhh.de/html5/EasyCropA-9.0.0-dp-4hhX.html
http://hyperhh.de/html5/EasyCropA-9.0.0-dp-4.zip

If you wish to sell your standalone you need moreover
the HTML5 license.

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Special Graphic Effects - Kill Performance On Rapid Redraws

2019-11-19 Thread Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
We released SivaSiva 1.6.  Just yesterday.

The days before release I found a "bug" I had introduced in performance which 
may be useful, especially to newbies, because in using xTalk for 20 years, even 
I did not this.

One of the thing I have learned is how "bad" special graphic effects are on 
mobile that require redrawing of the screen. Hopefully others can add to these 
meager insights…

In the explanation for effective scrolling layers/datagrid that Mark W. made, 
one of the things was that the scrolling layer cannot have any graphic effect 
applied to any of the objects of the "rows" or re-iterated groups the scroll.

Taking that as a clue, in the Color Meditation module, for example, -- which 
always behaved badly, especially on Android, has no scrolling groups--  I had 
an outer glow on 3 different fields that were being updated on a timer. "Inhale 
1" "Inhale 2" etc.   I could never got the "Pause" button to stop it. After I 
refactored the code, not to use repeat loops (which as hard to interrupt, even 
with boolean flags ), but use "send ### in ### time"  it improved slightly but 
was still slow.

I took away the outglow in the fields that are redrawn ever second, set the 
textcolor to "black"-- all of a sudden it worked "brilliantly" on Android!  No 
performance issues…"Sheesh, what a simple solution"

I guess most of the old timers know this, but clearly the "paint" routine in 
the engine does want *any* special effects on object that require constant 
redrawing on the screen.  So this requires a UI design that use "flat" objects 
for everything that would be a performance issue on rapid motion or screen 
updates: no only on the datagrid and scrolling groups, which was Mark's "theme" 
in the explanation.

I would be good to put this all into some kind of "lesson" on the web site. 
Since the scope could be "anywhere" I would make it a part of

"Use of Special Graphic Effects in Livecode"  (maybe already there?)

and there you could have a guide and where *not* to use them, as well as 
explanation of the different kinds of layer modes that are important.

I would happen to contribute such a lesson, at least a first draft

Also, I don't think this is an LC issue, one never sees things like drop shadow 
and outglows etc. on anything in other apps on iOS and Android. I looked 
through a lot all apps. Anything that "moves", usually, has flat objects.

BR

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encrypt a standalone html5

2019-11-19 Thread Riko Abadi via use-livecode
Helllo,

is it possible to encrypt a standalone html5 file. So it can't be
downloaded and unzipped. So other people can see our logic script.
for example: http://hyperhh.de/html5/CopyPaste-8.0.2X.html
http://hyperhh.de/html5/CopyPaste-8.0.2.zip

I can see the stack card and copy the logic.
I want it when other people download the html5 standalone zip they can't
read my livecode logic script
is there another way to make it encrypted?

Thanks
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Re: How much do we have to pay to get a minimum of efficiency from HTML5

2019-11-19 Thread kee nethery via use-livecode


> On Nov 19, 2019, at 12:01 AM, hh via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> TMHO there are so few license holders in HTML5 that
> there is nearly no step forward in that field -- sadly
> a downward spiral.

Interesting. And I was waiting for it to be production ready before paying 
money for it.

Kee Nethery
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Re: How much do we have to pay to get a minimum of efficiency from HTML5

2019-11-19 Thread hh via use-livecode
A few words in defence of the LC HTML5 standalone builder.

1. > Pi wrote:
> To answer your subject heading, I did some calculating based on the
> current state of HTML5 deployment and my own experience in doing the
> fixes single-handed for it. I work it out in the region of £15k.

This is of course heavily depending on your skills in both Livecode
Script and JavaScript. You shouldn't blame LiveCode if you need a lot
of time for simple fixes/workarounds.

2. (As to Alain's bug report relating to the browser widget).
Nobody from LC ever claimed, a browser widget would work in a HTML5
standalone.

Also: everything (and more) what you can do with a browser widget
can you do in the browser, may be using an iFrame for the display.
Moreover, the available javascript in the browser is usually more
up-to-date than what's integrated in the browser widget.

A browser widget is good for exercising the parts that you do later
on in the webpage from your standalone using the browser.
The "translation" from browser widget to webpage is easy and fast
to learn.

3. There *was* progress in HTML5 until midth 2018:
= A greatly improved and very simple "Test" procedure.
= Implementing multiple stack windows (you can even do "go url").
= Doing networking as much as OS and browser allow.

[Sadly there *are* still basic things missing, especially full
keyboard support and much better font support.]
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Re: How much do we have to pay to get a minimum of efficiency from HTML5

2019-11-19 Thread Pi Digital via use-livecode
Hi Alain

I truly feel your pain. To answer your subject heading, I did some calculating 
based on the current state of HTML5 deployment and my own experience in doing 
the fixes single-handed for it. I work it out in the region of £15k. It’s an 
effing mess.

Go to quality.livecode.co.uk and search the term HTML5 and you get 80 bugs 
(some not for HTML5 deployment specifically) and you see none marked fixed and 
nearly all as confirmed. Some are 2+ yrs old. 

In contrast, here’s the link to the LC for FM forum:
https://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=133
Either there are zero problems with FM deployment or no one is using it. My 
guess is the later. A search for LiveCode in community.filemaker.com is even 
more pitiful. But this is where a large amount of resources went over the last 
year or so. We’re unlikely to know the sales figures but I bet they’re very low 
so that’s not a big return on their investment. The same can probably be said 
of HTML5 deployment, hence the lack of support. 

Your bug mentioned (https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22028) is a 
very odd one as it is suggesting having the browser widget work within a HTML5 
deployment standalone. That’s a very tricky one to accomplish at all and a bit 
of a rabbits hole (not to mention the potential security risk it opens up). I 
would be inclined to accomplishing what you have in your demo stack outside of 
any browser widget to avoid unnecessary complications. 

If you really are serious about HTML5 deployment I’d happily set up a crowd 
funder for fixing it but I doubt I’d get anywhere close to the 15k to cover it. 
Probably not even 1k even! I’d even happily move to Scotland and join the LC 
team dedicated to it if they called for it (which is a billion times more 
unlikely). 

My current project using HTML5 deployment has gone live now for my clients 
customers but is 82% workarounds currently. And as I am getting paid for that, 
that is where the majority of my concentration lies. I still have many more 
stages of deployment to go for them too. 

If you have more specific HTML5 questions you need help with post them here 
with a [html5] in the subject heading and we’ll keep an watch for them. No 
doubt one of us here can help. 

Sean Cole
Pi Digital Prod Ltd

> On 18 Nov 2019, at 22:55, Alain Vezina via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I gave up regular LC to get interested in HTML5 from LiveCode a year 
> ago. I reported a bug on the Browser widget in April 2019 and the problem 
> has still not been fixed. ... I think that at that price, I could get a lot 
> more from LiveCode.
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Re: How much do we have to pay to get a minimum of efficiency from HTML5

2019-11-19 Thread hh via use-livecode
LiveCode cannot do anything for you with that.

The security dictator is
1. the OS
2. the browser you use for the standalone.

There are a lot of differences alone by variations of
these two.

Yes, read and write from files is doable, but with the
restrictions given by OS security and Browser security,
what means: User interaction and/or same origin policy.
For example you can read without any problems from the
standalone's server location.

With the help of a bit javascript you can read from any
local file using a dialog, but you can write to nowhere
but the user's downloads folder.

I have shown that already long ago with some of my HTML5
examples (available incl. source code).

TMHO there are so few license holders in HTML5 that
there is nearly no step forward in that field -- sadly
a downward spiral.

Sadly, because there are already a *lot* of features
implemented -- if you are able to handle that under the
user's OS and browser.

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