date:20200408

The speed difference with stack files seems to be that there's high 
overhead for each write on Windows 10, and stack files are written on a 
series of small writes.


Given this, which would make more sense?:

a) Serialize objects to one buffer in memory
   and flush to disk in one write
   (changes current behavior, but I can't think
of why anyone would mind)

b) Extend the "save file" command with a flag
   to tell the engine to flush in one write
   (keeps current default behavior, allowing
   the single-flush method as an option)

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Go to card has become slow

Neville Smythe wrote:

> I have updated the SlowSave test stack with Richard's enhancement to
> also show the time to save the binary data (no need to use the shift
> button)
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cb2r9jbohxqv6bp/AAAQ1weLLlzrKYQ21yn1apf9a?dl=0
>
> Pleased to see everyone is seeing the problem at last, it doesn’t seem
> to be related to the particular Windows 10 installation. But 38
> seconds for 8 MB!!

Yes, the difference is quite pronounced.

Thank you for updating the stack.

Brian Milby's comment was most illuminating:

   Internally, each object is serialized and written to the
   file buffer in turn.  So the question then becomes how
   much of the difference is due to writing the file in
   pieces compared to the process of serializing the data.

I just did a search at DuckDuckGo for "difference in write speed windows 
vs mac programming":

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/48356177/c-program-runs-much-slower-on-windows-vs-linux-when-doing-file-operations

Among the first results was this discussion from stack overflow, where 
the problem is described as:

  When you execute a build operation with ChatScript, it scans
  all the script files that comprise your chat-bot. In my case,
  that's hundreds of files. This process takes nearly 30 times
  longer on Windows 8.1 than it does on Ubuntu 16.04. Therefore
  I do use Linux for much of my work, but there is a part of
  my work that I have to do on Windows because of certain
  associated tools, so I would like to modify the code base so
  that Windows ChatScript compiles are as fast as on Linux.

  Can anyone think of a reason the code would run so much slower
  on Windows vs. Linux? Are there some C++ file operation codes
  (read/write/etc.) that are known to be much slower on Windows
  compared to Linux due to variances in the C++ run-time libraries
  running on each platform?

Sounds kinda like us, no?

But it gets better.

The first reply suggests a few common things to speed up disk I/O, like 
defragging and double-checking compiler options, but then he kinda gives 
up and says, "But doing all those things for me has never got the 
Windows compile to be quicker than on linux using equivalent disk 
hardware, not once."

Better still, see the last comment on that page. :)

It kinda fits Brian's observation about how the stack file is written in 
a series of small writes, one per object.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web

 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Video format for mobile

Not sure what you mean by "an existing app" but my test app uses mobileControlCreate to set up
a mobile player. When it accesses the video from my server, it's all black with no video or
audio, and the nonexistent playback quits a few seconds in.

I'm not sure whether these videos were created with streaming in mind. I vaguely remember we
used to need to set a "streaming" checkbox when creating a video. Is that still required?

On 4/8/20 7:49 PM, Colin Holgate via use-livecode wrote:

QuickTime Player can play it, but it doesn’t need QuickTime.

I’m not sure what player LiveCode uses on Android, but it is highly likely to
be able to cope.

Is the LC Player an existing Android app?

On Apr 8, 2020, at 5:10 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
wrote:

I asked this before, looking for the best format for video files on both
Android and iOS. Colin suggested H.264 as the codec, and MP4 as the file
format. I have a video with those specs but it won't play in the LC player, and
the Mac wants to open it with QuickTime. VLC will play it.

Get Info shows the codec as H.264, AAC. The file extension is mp4. Is AAC the
problem (that's the audio format, right?) What should it be?

I haven't tried it on mobile yet, but if it needs QT I'm pretty sure it won't
work.

--
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HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Video format for mobile

If that's true, I'm in trouble. There are a lot of these videos.

I just made a quick test app and ran it on Android. I get a blank mobile player displaying a
completely black rectangle. The script loads the URL from my server, waits for a
playerPropertyAvailable "duration" property to be received, and then starts to play. The video
is about a minute and a half long, the duration is never received, and after about a 30 second
wait I get the playerFinished message.

A quick web search verifies what Colin said, an .mp4 with H.264 and AAC is pretty much standard
these days.

Not sure where to go from here but I need a solution.

On 4/8/20 11:17 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote:

my guess is the LC player does not have h264 codec. its a codec that
carries a license fee and agreement. I hope one day it can be included in
an indy license and maybe the CEF can be built with the h264 codec.

That would be really good for business.

CHeers

Tom

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 12:12 AM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

Thanks. The Mac won't play it, which is odd (usually in Finder a media
thumbnail will play) and the Mac suggests QT as a default app, wbich is no
longer supported officially.

I will try it on mobile when I get farther along, but for now I'd like to
debug on Mac during development. The LC player is blank when I set the
filename, presumably because it doesn't support QT either.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On April 8, 2020 9:48:52 PM Jerry Jensen via use-livecode
wrote:

Hi J,
AAC is Advanced Audio Compression - successor to MP3.
https://fileinfo.com/extension/aac
Hope this will help you figure out how to play it.
.Jerry

On Apr 8, 2020, at 4:10 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
wrote:

I asked this before, looking for the best format for video files on

both

Android and iOS. Colin suggested H.264 as the codec, and MP4 as the

file

format. I have a video with those specs but it won't play in the LC

player,

and the Mac wants to open it with QuickTime. VLC will play it.

Get Info shows the codec as H.264, AAC. The file extension is mp4. Is

AAC

the problem (that's the audio format, right?) What should it be?

I haven't tried it on mobile yet, but if it needs QT I'm pretty sure it
won't work.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Go to card has become slow

2020-04-08 Thread Neville Smythe via use-livecode

I have updated the SlowSave test stack with Richard's enhancement to also show 
the time to save the binary data (no need to use the shift button)

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cb2r9jbohxqv6bp/AAAQ1weLLlzrKYQ21yn1apf9a?dl=0

Pleased to see everyone is seeing the problem at last, it doesn’t seem to be 
related to the particular Windows 10 installation. But 38 seconds for 8 MB!! 

Neville
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Re: Video format for mobile

2020-04-08 Thread Tom Glod via use-livecode

my guess is the LC player does not have h264 codec. its a codec that
carries a license fee and agreement. I hope one day it can be included in
an indy license and maybe the CEF can be built with the h264 codec.

That would be really good for business.

CHeers

Tom

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 12:12 AM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Thanks. The Mac won't play it, which is odd (usually in Finder a media
> thumbnail will play) and the Mac suggests QT as a default app, wbich is no
> longer supported officially.
>
> I will try it on mobile when I get farther along, but for now I'd like to
> debug on Mac during development. The LC player is blank when I set the
> filename, presumably because it doesn't support QT either.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On April 8, 2020 9:48:52 PM Jerry Jensen via use-livecode
>  wrote:
>
> > Hi J,
> > AAC is Advanced Audio Compression - successor to MP3.
> > https://fileinfo.com/extension/aac
> > Hope this will help you figure out how to play it.
> > .Jerry
> >
> >> On Apr 8, 2020, at 4:10 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >> I asked this before, looking for the best format for video files on
> both
> >> Android and iOS. Colin suggested H.264 as the codec, and MP4 as the
> file
> >> format. I have a video with those specs but it won't play in the LC
> player,
> >> and the Mac wants to open it with QuickTime. VLC will play it.
> >>
> >> Get Info shows the codec as H.264, AAC. The file extension is mp4. Is
> AAC
> >> the problem (that's the audio format, right?) What should it be?
> >>
> >> I haven't tried it on mobile yet, but if it needs QT I'm pretty sure it
> >> won't work.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> >> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> >>
> >> ___
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> >
> >
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-- 
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Founder & Developer
MakeShyft R.D.A (www.makeshyft.com)
Mobile:647.562.9411
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Re: Video format for mobile

Thanks. The Mac won't play it, which is odd (usually in Finder a media 
thumbnail will play) and the Mac suggests QT as a default app, wbich is no 
longer supported officially.


I will try it on mobile when I get farther along, but for now I'd like to 
debug on Mac during development. The LC player is blank when I set the 
filename, presumably because it doesn't support QT either.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On April 8, 2020 9:48:52 PM Jerry Jensen via use-livecode 
 wrote:



Hi J,
AAC is Advanced Audio Compression - successor to MP3.
https://fileinfo.com/extension/aac
Hope this will help you figure out how to play it.
.Jerry

On Apr 8, 2020, at 4:10 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
 wrote:


I asked this before, looking for the best format for video files on both 
Android and iOS. Colin suggested H.264 as the codec, and MP4 as the file 
format. I have a video with those specs but it won't play in the LC player, 
and the Mac wants to open it with QuickTime. VLC will play it.


Get Info shows the codec as H.264, AAC. The file extension is mp4. Is AAC 
the problem (that's the audio format, right?) What should it be?


I haven't tried it on mobile yet, but if it needs QT I'm pretty sure it 
won't work.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Video format for mobile

2020-04-08 Thread Jerry Jensen via use-livecode

Hi J,
AAC is Advanced Audio Compression - successor to MP3.
https://fileinfo.com/extension/aac
Hope this will help you figure out how to play it.
.Jerry

> On Apr 8, 2020, at 4:10 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I asked this before, looking for the best format for video files on both 
> Android and iOS. Colin suggested H.264 as the codec, and MP4 as the file 
> format. I have a video with those specs but it won't play in the LC player, 
> and the Mac wants to open it with QuickTime. VLC will play it.
> 
> Get Info shows the codec as H.264, AAC. The file extension is mp4. Is AAC the 
> problem (that's the audio format, right?) What should it be?
> 
> I haven't tried it on mobile yet, but if it needs QT I'm pretty sure it won't 
> work.
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> ___
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Re: Video format for mobile

2020-04-08 Thread Colin Holgate via use-livecode

QuickTime Player can play it, but it doesn’t need QuickTime.

I’m not sure what player LiveCode uses on Android, but it is highly likely to 
be able to cope.

Is the LC Player an existing Android app?

> On Apr 8, 2020, at 5:10 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I asked this before, looking for the best format for video files on both 
> Android and iOS. Colin suggested H.264 as the codec, and MP4 as the file 
> format. I have a video with those specs but it won't play in the LC player, 
> and the Mac wants to open it with QuickTime. VLC will play it.
> 
> Get Info shows the codec as H.264, AAC. The file extension is mp4. Is AAC the 
> problem (that's the audio format, right?) What should it be?
> 
> I haven't tried it on mobile yet, but if it needs QT I'm pretty sure it won't 
> work.
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
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Re: HilitedItem of a navbar


Thank you! I didn't think to try that. I think I tried everything else.

On 4/8/20 5:54 PM, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote:

Use empty instead of 0 and it should work.

Thanks,
Brian
On Apr 8, 2020, 5:38 PM -0400, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
, wrote:

On 4/7/20 12:43 PM, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote:

The PR is now merged into develop and will be in the next DP.  It only adds the 
option of selecting nothing but does not make it the default.


I now have the same problem with a segmented control, which I'm using as a 
vertical popup menu
for the "More" overflow navbar item. It retains the last selection and sends no 
messages if the
user needs to click the same selection again. I want it to appear without a 
hilite.

How can I clear it? It errors if I set the hilitedItem to 0. Maybe someone 
could fix this too?

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com


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Re: HilitedItem of a navbar

I would never ignore you. ;) We were talking about navbars that time, and I'd already tried
empty. But it does seem to work with segmented controls.

On 4/8/20 6:01 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:

That's what I said! I thought people were ignoring me because that wouldn't
work.

Bob S

On Apr 8, 2020, at 15:54 , Brian Milby via use-livecode
wrote:

Use empty instead of 0 and it should work.

Thanks,
Brian
On Apr 8, 2020, 5:38 PM -0400, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
, wrote:

On 4/7/20 12:43 PM, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote:

The PR is now merged into develop and will be in the next DP. It only adds the
option of selecting nothing but does not make it the default.

I now have the same problem with a segmented control, which I'm using as a
vertical popup menu
for the "More" overflow navbar item. It retains the last selection and sends no
messages if the
user needs to click the same selection again. I want it to appear without a
hilite.

How can I clear it? It errors if I set the hilitedItem to 0. Maybe someone
could fix this too?

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

Re: HilitedItem of a navbar

Ah! I read the subject, not the body. :-)

Bob S


> On Apr 8, 2020, at 16:12 , Brian Milby via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> For the segmented control widget, the hilitedItems property (with an s) 
> expects a comma separated list of positive integers. It can be empty to have 
> nothing selected.
> 
> For the navigation bar widget, the hilitedItem must be a positive integer.  
> In the next DP it will also allow 0 to indicate nothing is selected.
> 
> Thanks,
> Brian


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Re: HilitedItem of a navbar

2020-04-08 Thread Brian Milby via use-livecode

For the segmented control widget, the hilitedItems property (with an s) expects 
a comma separated list of positive integers.  It can be empty to have nothing 
selected.

For the navigation bar widget, the hilitedItem must be a positive integer.  In 
the next DP it will also allow 0 to indicate nothing is selected.

Thanks,
Brian
On Apr 8, 2020, 7:05 PM -0400, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
, wrote:
> Yeah no work. Must be an integer
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Apr 8, 2020, at 16:01 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
> >  wrote:
> >
> > That's what I said! I thought people were ignoring me because that wouldn't 
> > work.
> >
> > Bob S
> >
> >
> > > On Apr 8, 2020, at 15:54 , Brian Milby via use-livecode 
> > >  wrote:
> > >
> > > Use empty instead of 0 and it should work.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Brian
>
>
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Video format for mobile

I asked this before, looking for the best format for video files on both Android and iOS. Colin 
suggested H.264 as the codec, and MP4 as the file format. I have a video with those specs but 
it won't play in the LC player, and the Mac wants to open it with QuickTime. VLC will play it.


Get Info shows the codec as H.264, AAC. The file extension is mp4. Is AAC the problem (that's 
the audio format, right?) What should it be?


I haven't tried it on mobile yet, but if it needs QT I'm pretty sure it won't 
work.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: HilitedItem of a navbar

Yeah no work. Must be an integer

Bob S


> On Apr 8, 2020, at 16:01 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> That's what I said! I thought people were ignoring me because that wouldn't 
> work. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Apr 8, 2020, at 15:54 , Brian Milby via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Use empty instead of 0 and it should work.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Brian


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Re: HilitedItem of a navbar

That's what I said! I thought people were ignoring me because that wouldn't 
work. 

Bob S


> On Apr 8, 2020, at 15:54 , Brian Milby via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Use empty instead of 0 and it should work.
> 
> Thanks,
> Brian
> On Apr 8, 2020, 5:38 PM -0400, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
> , wrote:
>> On 4/7/20 12:43 PM, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote:
>>> The PR is now merged into develop and will be in the next DP.  It only adds 
>>> the option of selecting nothing but does not make it the default.
>> 
>> I now have the same problem with a segmented control, which I'm using as a 
>> vertical popup menu
>> for the "More" overflow navbar item. It retains the last selection and sends 
>> no messages if the
>> user needs to click the same selection again. I want it to appear without a 
>> hilite.
>> 
>> How can I clear it? It errors if I set the hilitedItem to 0. Maybe someone 
>> could fix this too?
>> 
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> 
>> 
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Re: HilitedItem of a navbar

2020-04-08 Thread Brian Milby via use-livecode

Use empty instead of 0 and it should work.

Thanks,
Brian
On Apr 8, 2020, 5:38 PM -0400, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
, wrote:
> On 4/7/20 12:43 PM, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote:
> > The PR is now merged into develop and will be in the next DP.  It only adds 
> > the option of selecting nothing but does not make it the default.
>
> I now have the same problem with a segmented control, which I'm using as a 
> vertical popup menu
> for the "More" overflow navbar item. It retains the last selection and sends 
> no messages if the
> user needs to click the same selection again. I want it to appear without a 
> hilite.
>
> How can I clear it? It errors if I set the hilitedItem to 0. Maybe someone 
> could fix this too?
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
>
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> preferences:
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Re: Go to card has become slow

2020-04-08 Thread Neville Smythe via use-livecode

Richard:

OK, so my impression, that LC saving a (binary) file on Windows 10 is not the 
problem, is correct, as you deduce it lies in the serialisation of the stack.

Now why would that be platform, indeed OS, dependent? Could the LC 
cache/virtual memory settings be different for Windows 10 from those for MacOS 
or Linux? But if that were the case you would expect to see a slow down in 
other parts of LC, such as perhaps script editing in the IDE, and that doesn’t 
happen, does it (!!)

Neville
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Re: HilitedItem of a navbar


On 4/7/20 12:43 PM, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote:
The PR is now merged into develop and will be in the next DP.  It only adds the option of selecting nothing but does not make it the default. 


I now have the same problem with a segmented control, which I'm using as a vertical popup menu 
for the "More" overflow navbar item. It retains the last selection and sends no messages if the 
user needs to click the same selection again. I want it to appear without a hilite.


How can I clear it? It errors if I set the hilitedItem to 0. Maybe someone 
could fix this too?

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com


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Re: Go to card has become slow

2020-04-08 Thread Brian Milby via use-livecode

On my Win10 Dell (i5):

6.154 to 6.806 without shift
0.036 to 0.15 with shift

This is measuring a difference in doing a bulk 8MB write with a streamed
write of the stack to the file piece by piece.  Internally, each object is
serialized and written to the file buffer in turn.  So the question then
becomes how much of the difference is due to writing the file in pieces
compared to the process of serializing the data.

Brian
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Re: Go to card has become slow

2020-04-08 Thread Niggemann, Bernd via use-livecode

Saving the 300 cards 8.x MB stack on a 2017 MacBook Pro SSD:

0.127276 seconds

Same stack saving as binfile:

0.013656 seconds

Kind regards
Bernd

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Re: Go to card has become slow

Ralph DiMola wrote:

> 0.033 shift key down
> 28-30 seconds shift key up.

It's almost like the stack file takes longer, if only the difference 
were more clearly evident. :)

I'll include your results with the test data I'll add to the report. 
Thanks for running that.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web

 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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RE: Go to card has become slow

2020-04-08 Thread Ralph DiMola via use-livecode

0.033 shift key down
28-30 seconds shift key up.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net


-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of Richard Gaskin via use-livecode
Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2020 1:46 PM
To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Cc: Richard Gaskin
Subject: Re: Go to card has become slow

Ralph DiMola wrote:

> LC 9.5.1
> Win 10 Hyper-V VM with 8 processors assigned Stack and data on smb 
> served by VM host.
> Host ==> i7 6700 3.40Ghz 16 Gig
> 
> saving data took  38.46 seconds
> 8.183708 MB
> 
> 
> 
> LC 9.5.1
> MacBook Pro Early 2011 OSX 10.13.1 16 Gig Stack and data on smb served 
> by the aforementioned Win 10 VM host.
> 
> saving data took  0.400926 seconds
> 8.183708 MB

Thanks for testing that, Ralph.

If you use this script, what do you get with a second run with the Shift key
down to measure only a straight write, separate from the "save stack"
routine?:


on mouseUp
put word 2 of the long name of stack "data" into fName
replace quote with "" in fName
if the shiftKey is "up" then
  put the long seconds into t0
  save stack "data"
  put the long seconds - t0 into t1
  put "saving data took " && t1 && "seconds" into fld "timeInfo"
  put 0.01*(the length of URL ("file:" & fName)) && "MB" into fld
"lengthInfo"
else
  put url ("binfile:"&fName) into tData
  put the long seconds into t
  put tData into url ("binfile:"& fName)
  put the long seconds - t
end if
end mouseUp



--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  
  ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Go to card has become slow


Ralph DiMola wrote:


LC 9.5.1
Win 10 Hyper-V VM with 8 processors assigned
Stack and data on smb served by VM host.
Host ==> i7 6700 3.40Ghz 16 Gig

saving data took  38.46 seconds
8.183708 MB



LC 9.5.1
MacBook Pro Early 2011 OSX 10.13.1 16 Gig
Stack and data on smb served by the aforementioned Win 10 VM host.

saving data took  0.400926 seconds
8.183708 MB


Thanks for testing that, Ralph.

If you use this script, what do you get with a second run with the Shift 
key down to measure only a straight write, separate from the "save 
stack" routine?:



on mouseUp
   put word 2 of the long name of stack "data" into fName
   replace quote with "" in fName
   if the shiftKey is "up" then
 put the long seconds into t0
 save stack "data"
 put the long seconds - t0 into t1
 put "saving data took " && t1 && "seconds" into fld "timeInfo"
 put 0.01*(the length of URL ("file:" & fName)) && "MB" into fld
"lengthInfo"
   else
 put url ("binfile:"&fName) into tData
 put the long seconds into t
 put tData into url ("binfile:"& fName)
 put the long seconds - t
   end if
end mouseUp



--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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RE: Go to card has become slow

2020-04-08 Thread Ralph DiMola via use-livecode

LC 9.5.1
Win 10 Hyper-V VM with 8 processors assigned
Stack and data on smb served by VM host.
Host ==> i7 6700 3.40Ghz 16 Gig

saving data took  38.46 seconds
8.183708 MB



LC 9.5.1
MacBook Pro Early 2011 OSX 10.13.1 16 Gig
Stack and data on smb served by the aforementioned Win 10 VM host.

saving data took  0.400926 seconds
8.183708 MB


Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net

-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
Neville Smythe via use-livecode
Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2020 11:17 PM
To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Cc: Neville Smythe
Subject: Re: Go to card has become slow

Richard

Here is a link to the test stack for testing the speed of save stack

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cb2r9jbohxqv6bp/AAAQ1weLLlzrKYQ21yn1apf9a?dl=0

I don’t know why the test stacks I supplied disappeared from the QC bug report.

You need the SlowSave.livecode and the data.livecode stacks. They are both 
small, but SlowSave creates a large stack with 300 cards and the lorem ipsum 
text data to build an 8 MB stack, and displays the timing for saving. On my 
MacBook Air it takes 0.13 seconds to save; on Windows 10 installations I have 
seen times from 3 seconds to 10 seconds.

In this test, the stack has just 300 cards, 1 field on each, and lots of ascii 
text (so there should be no problems converting to utf-8 before saving in the 
unlikely event that is happening, and in any case would happen on all 
platforms). I haven’t tested stacks with large numbers of controls or large 
images rather than large text data.

Other apps on Windows 10 certainly don’t display this behaviour, which  
indicates it is a LC problem not a Windows problem. Antivirus software and 
Defender were off during the test. I was under the impression that saving files 
from LC, rather than stacks, was not slower than normal, but Bob’s recently 
experience with saving data to a database may contradict that.

Some people have had trouble verifying my observations (other LC Forum users 
have confirmed). QC originally could not confirm the bug until they tried it 
“on an older PC”. However one of my users recently updated to a *very* fast HP 
box; it cut the save time down significantly but was still at least 20 times 
slower than on a typical Mac, ie almost usable. So maybe it has something to do 
with the Windows installation, though the ones I used were stock standard. I 
can’t see how fonts could be involved, for example. 

Neville
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Re: LC Android deployment working on Windows 10 under ARM64

2020-04-08 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode

Bob,

I can still run apps for Windows 3.11 if I want. Windows ME is even easier.
I can even still run DOS 16bit stuff.

> 32 bit only apps are apps that are not maintained, and have likely not
been maintained for quite some time. Win XP 64 bit was released in April
2005. 15 YEARS ago. The die was cast way back then. Anyone who refused or
were unable  to update their apps to 64 > bit are likely not in the
business of software development and support, or else are not very serious
about.

This is completely false. There are many hardware peripherals that require
32bits drivers for example. It is very common to have industrial stuff
running with 32bits. Also, all windows machines can run 32bits apps, so
many windows apps are still 32bits as it doesn't make sense to update them
to 64bits and risk it not running on some machines as in the case of
windows, things change very little between 32bits and 64bits. Stuff such as
video editors and multimedia apps benefit a lot from being 64bits and those
are the ones that I most see with only 64bits available.

A good example of the trainwreck that Apple did with the 32bits fiasco is
that many gamers collected a huge gaming library over the years on things
like Steam. Many of those games are 32bits games because that is what gets
you most compatibility with hardware out there, now all of those games,
which run fine up to one update ago, are not running anymore. My best
friend has this problem for example, from the 219 games in his Steam
library, only 69 run on Catalina.

Many offices can no longer print as the driver is 32bits...

None of this is happening because the people who developed all those
products are not serious. With LC it is easy to compile to many different
architectures but with a lot of code it is not that simple. Specially low
level C code might change a lot between 32bits and 64bits.

On Wed, 8 Apr 2020 at 16:42, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Again, why would one want to? :-)
>
> 32 bit only apps are apps that are not maintained, and have likely not
> been maintained for quite some time. Win XP 64 bit was released in April
> 2005. 15 YEARS ago. The die was cast way back then. Anyone who refused or
> were unable  to update their apps to 64 bit are likely not in the business
> of software development and support, or else are not very serious about.
>
> Try running apps for Windows ME or OS 9. It’s only a matter of degrees.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Apr 8, 2020, at 8:20 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Why should i want to? My Mac OS can run 64bit apps. ;)
> >
> > Now try running a 32bits one...
>
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Re: LC Android deployment working on Windows 10 under ARM64

Again, why would one want to? :-)

32 bit only apps are apps that are not maintained, and have likely not been 
maintained for quite some time. Win XP 64 bit was released in April 2005. 15 
YEARS ago. The die was cast way back then. Anyone who refused or were unable  
to update their apps to 64 bit are likely not in the business of software 
development and support, or else are not very serious about. 

Try running apps for Windows ME or OS 9. It’s only a matter of degrees. 

Bob S

> On Apr 8, 2020, at 8:20 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
>> Why should i want to? My Mac OS can run 64bit apps. ;)
> 
> Now try running a 32bits one...

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Re: LC Android deployment working on Windows 10 under ARM64

2020-04-08 Thread matthias rebbe via use-livecode




-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 08.04.2020 um 17:20 schrieb Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
> :
> 
>> Why should i want to? My Mac OS can run 64bit apps. ;)
> 
> Now try running a 32bits one...
> 
I am running 10.14.6 so i can still run 32bit.

> rsrsrs what I mean is that Windows machines have a lot of
> retrocompatibility and interoperability among themselves, something that is
> no longer true for the mac. The fact that I'm running all these 32bits apps
> that were compiled for a completely different ISA on my computer without
> even noticing they are not native is quite an achievement. They say 64bits
> emulation will come at the end of the year. All I want to be honest is
> native arm64 binaries but companies are slow to port.
> 
I know what you´ve meant.

I just wanted to make a joke ;)





> 
> On Wed, 8 Apr 2020 at 16:16, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>>> ARM7 Android, all working fine.
>>> 
>>> PS: You can't do this kind of crazy stunts on a mac
>> 
>> Why should i want to? My Mac OS can run 64bit apps. ;)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> Matthias Rebbe
>> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
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Re: LC Android deployment working on Windows 10 under ARM64

2020-04-08 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode

> Why should i want to? My Mac OS can run 64bit apps. ;)

Now try running a 32bits one...

rsrsrs what I mean is that Windows machines have a lot of
retrocompatibility and interoperability among themselves, something that is
no longer true for the mac. The fact that I'm running all these 32bits apps
that were compiled for a completely different ISA on my computer without
even noticing they are not native is quite an achievement. They say 64bits
emulation will come at the end of the year. All I want to be honest is
native arm64 binaries but companies are slow to port.

On Wed, 8 Apr 2020 at 16:16, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> > ARM7 Android, all working fine.
> >
> > PS: You can't do this kind of crazy stunts on a mac
>
> Why should i want to? My Mac OS can run 64bit apps. ;)
>
>
>
>
> -
> Matthias Rebbe
> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
>
>
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Re: LC Android deployment working on Windows 10 under ARM64

2020-04-08 Thread matthias rebbe via use-livecode



> ARM7 Android, all working fine.
> 
> PS: You can't do this kind of crazy stunts on a mac

Why should i want to? My Mac OS can run 64bit apps. ;)




-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code


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Re: Apps to fight COVID-19

2020-04-08 Thread Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode

:)

> On Apr 8, 2020, at 8:17 AM, David Bovill via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I’d be interested in volunteering to make a Livecode app for this. Anyone 
> else?
> On 7 Apr 2020, 00:41 +0100, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode 
> , wrote:
>> Hi, everybody!
>> 
>> I apologize for the drive-by email.
>> 
>> And I miss everybody on the list. Been busy all that.
>> 
>> I am a strong believer in contact tracing as an implortant part of COVID-19 
>> containment.
>> 
>> There are several teams out there working on voluntary privacy-protecting 
>> contact tracing apps to deploy before Big Brother mandates some central DB 
>> app usage. Those include COVID Watch, CoEpi, Private Watch Safe Paths, and 
>> others. Most have already started and are using swift and kotlin. Only Safe 
>> Paths has something out. However, there might be some room in creating some 
>> instant apps in LiveCode or in supporting in other ways. Also, some teams 
>> are just getting started and need something fast. I think we need some 
>> education apps done quickly.
>> 
>> Also, 4Catalyzer is making a home test and needs some app development.
>> 
>> For myself, I am on on the COVID Watch team.
>> 
>> If you want to do something, take a look around at privacy preserving 
>> contact tracing projects. And also look specifically I the ones I mentioned.
>> 
>> I might be rehashing what has already been discussed. Sorry. Like I said, 
>> "Drive by email".
>> 
>> And remember what the Beatles said, "You wanna wash your ha-a-ands!"
>> 
>> Dar Scott
>> 
>> I am using Private Watch: Safe Paths on my iPhone to fight COVID-19..
>> 
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LC Android deployment working on Windows 10 under ARM64

2020-04-08 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode

So, my main machine these days is a Surface Pro X which is a Microsoft
computer that runs Windows 10 with an ARM64 CPU (aka Windows on ARM, aka
WoA).

Machines running Windows 10 on ARM64 can run Windows 10 applications
compiled to ARM64 and also run Windows 10 applications compiled for x86
32bits through a built in emulation system. It can't run x86 64bits
applications unfortunately. Thankfully LC for Windows is still compiled for
32 bits, so I can run it on this machine even though I'd rather have a
native arm64 version someday.

I got tired of always switching to a Mac, or my older Surface Go, when I
need to do something with LC and Android and decided to try setting it up
today. I begun by following the instructions at:

http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4069/l/985962-livecode-and-android-studio

Which led me to download Android Studio for Windows 10 32bits. I've
installed it and downloaded SDKs for Android 10, 9 and 8. Also downloaded
the obsolete SDK tools as described. Downloaded a 32bits JDK from Oracle.
Installed everything and setup LC correctly.

While I was trying to deploy an Android app, it would start compile things
and then fail with:

"Could not encode class bundle"

Which is a useless message and doesn't tell me anything. I went searching
and found this thread:

http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/could-not-encode-class-bundle-td4711848.html

Which led me to a very helpful message by Panos that contains this
wonderful nugget of wisdom:

> On Jan 22, 2017, at 8:42 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <[hidden
email]
>
wrote:
>
> My guess is that this error is related to the Android SDK. Which version
of
> Android SDK Build Tools have you installed?
>
> To find the exact error, you can do the following:
>
> 1. Type in the msg box "edit the script of stack
revsaveasandroidstandalone"
> 2. In the script editor window that just opened, search for "Could not
> encode class bundle" (should be around line 638)
> 3. Add "answer the result" just before the "Could not encode class
bundle"
> line.
> 4. Click apply to (temporarily) save this change
> 5. Build an android standalone.

Now, why the hell doesn't the default error message contains "the result"?
That would have saved me a lot of time! I changed that to output to the
message box, and this is what it was saying:

-
This version of
C:\Users\andre\AppData\Local\Android\Sdk\tools\lib\find_java64.exe is not
compatible with the version of Windows you're running. Check your
computer's system information and then contact the software publisher.

ERROR: No suitable Java found. In order to properly use the Android
Developer
Tools, you need a suitable version of Java JDK installed on your system.
We recommend that you install the JDK version of JavaSE, available here:
  http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads

If you already have Java installed, you can define the JAVA_HOME environment
variable in Control Panel / System / Avanced System Settings to point to the
JDK folder.

You can find the complete Android SDK requirements here:
  http://developer.android.com/sdk/requirements.html
-

Which makes total sense because my computer can't actually run 64bits
binaries. I don't know which function in LC calls that command, it is not
in the revsaveandroidstandalone, but I noticed that in that folder there
was also a "find_java32.exe", I simply made a copy of it, renamed it
"find_java64.exe" and from then onwards, everything worked and I could
deploy and test things on Android.

So yes, LiveCode compiled for Windows 10 running under 32bits emulation on
an ARM64 computer, compiling for an ARM7 Android, all working fine.

PS: You can't do this kind of crazy stunts on a mac

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Re: Building a Board Game

If you decide on that method, check out dragImageOffset. 

Bob S


> On Apr 8, 2020, at 7:22 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I like it! Thanks!!
> 
> Roger
> 
> 


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Re: Building a Board Game

2020-04-08 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode

I like it! Thanks!!

Roger

> On Apr 8, 2020, at 7:10 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I was also thinking that hiding the object and using the dragImage might be 
> better, because if a the player drops a piece on an illegal position, you 
> could simply cancel the drag operation and show the original object. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Apr 7, 2020, at 12:36 PM, Bob Sneidar  wrote:
>> 
>> Just brainstorming, you would have to intercept mouseMove and then have a 
>> tolerance of points to your grid. Say three points. Assuming your grid 
>> starts at the top left of the window, you would div the top of the object 
>> with the vertical grid width, check for tolerance above and below, then set 
>> the object’s top to the nearest gridline. You will also need to set the 
>> mouseLoc by the same amount, or else capture the mouseLoc on mouseDown, 
>> record the distance from the top left of the object, then after setting the 
>> top left of the object, opined the mouseLoc to the object again. Do the same 
>> with left, and also with bottom and right if need be. 
>> 
>> Bob S
> 
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Re: Apps to fight COVID-19

2020-04-08 Thread David Bovill via use-livecode

I’d be interested in volunteering to make a Livecode app for this. Anyone else?
On 7 Apr 2020, 00:41 +0100, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode 
, wrote:
> Hi, everybody!
>
> I apologize for the drive-by email.
>
> And I miss everybody on the list. Been busy all that.
>
> I am a strong believer in contact tracing as an implortant part of COVID-19 
> containment.
>
> There are several teams out there working on voluntary privacy-protecting 
> contact tracing apps to deploy before Big Brother mandates some central DB 
> app usage. Those include COVID Watch, CoEpi, Private Watch Safe Paths, and 
> others. Most have already started and are using swift and kotlin. Only Safe 
> Paths has something out. However, there might be some room in creating some 
> instant apps in LiveCode or in supporting in other ways. Also, some teams are 
> just getting started and need something fast. I think we need some education 
> apps done quickly.
>
> Also, 4Catalyzer is making a home test and needs some app development.
>
> For myself, I am on on the COVID Watch team.
>
> If you want to do something, take a look around at privacy preserving contact 
> tracing projects. And also look specifically I the ones I mentioned.
>
> I might be rehashing what has already been discussed. Sorry. Like I said, 
> "Drive by email".
>
> And remember what the Beatles said, "You wanna wash your ha-a-ands!"
>
> Dar Scott
>
> I am using Private Watch: Safe Paths on my iPhone to fight COVID-19..
>
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Re: Make video call

In theory anything is possible. That said, the trick will be accessing the 
camera and then streaming the captured video. Livecode to my knowledge does not 
provide a means for that, so some kind of external would be necessary. 

Beyond that is the security aspects. The stream is probably going to need to be 
encrypted, and doing that at a high level using Livecode would be very 
impractical, especially considering Livecode engine only uses one processor 
thread. 

I would say it would be much easier to tap an external for that. 

Bob S

> On Apr 7, 2020, at 8:34 PM, Riko Abadi via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> in theory is it possible we can make a video call application like zoom
> with livecode? thanks

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Re: Building a Board Game

I was also thinking that hiding the object and using the dragImage might be 
better, because if a the player drops a piece on an illegal position, you could 
simply cancel the drag operation and show the original object. 

Bob S


> On Apr 7, 2020, at 12:36 PM, Bob Sneidar  wrote:
> 
> Just brainstorming, you would have to intercept mouseMove and then have a 
> tolerance of points to your grid. Say three points. Assuming your grid starts 
> at the top left of the window, you would div the top of the object with the 
> vertical grid width, check for tolerance above and below, then set the 
> object’s top to the nearest gridline. You will also need to set the mouseLoc 
> by the same amount, or else capture the mouseLoc on mouseDown, record the 
> distance from the top left of the object, then after setting the top left of 
> the object, opined the mouseLoc to the object again. Do the same with left, 
> and also with bottom and right if need be. 
> 
> Bob S

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Re: Go to card has become slow