M1 Mac possible problem

[Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode]

Hi,

A particular user of my Music In the Air program is having trouble with it 
running correctly; a card fails to load the data to go ahead. She is in China 
and is using an M1 Mac, neither of which I have access to directly.

Would someone who has an M1 try running it and letting me know what happens? 

https://artsinteractive-products.s3.us-west-1.amazonaws.com/MITA/TestVersion/MITA-installer-mac-china.dmg
 



This is a limited demo version, otherwise fully functional, and will be 
initially in Chinese, but there is an English choice at the startup.

Thanks very much, and you can let me know off list what happens.

Peter Bogdanoff
bogdan...@me.com
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Re: RCs and DPs

[Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode]

Aha, thanks Martin - I missed that.

cheers,

Ben

On 09/09/2021 17:37, Martin Koob wrote:

Hi Ben

This is a change, they used to be there but then there was a policy change by 
LiveCode that was announced back in May



On May 6, 2021, at 7:25 AM, The LiveCode Team > wrote:



Policy change regarding old test releases

Dear Valued Customer,

I'm writing to let you know that in order to optimise space on our servers we 
are removing old test releases of LiveCode. This should not affect you, as 
there should be no reason to use these old releases anymore. All older stable 
releases will remain available, but old releases labelled "dp" or "rc" will be 
removed from your account and from the download pages on our servers. If you 
do already have one of these downloads, the licensing will continue to work 
with it, however I strongly advise you to move to using a stable release, 
these are test releases and not intended for general use.


We will of course continue to offer the rc and dp releases for our latest 
build/s whilst they are under development.


If you think this will affect you, please do feel free to reply to this email, 
we would be very interested to hear why you are using an older, unstable and 
unsupported release.


Best Regards,

Heather

/Copyright © 2021 LiveCode Ltd, All rights reserved./
You joined this list upon creating an account and confirming your email 
address at LiveCode.com .





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Re: RCs and DPs

[Martin Koob via use-livecode]

Hi Ben

This is a change, they used to be there but then there was a policy change by 
LiveCode that was announced back in May


On May 6, 2021, at 7:25 AM, The LiveCode Team  wrote:


Policy change regarding old test releases
Dear Valued Customer,

I'm writing to let you know that in order to optimise space on our servers we 
are removing old test releases of LiveCode. This should not affect you, as 
there should be no reason to use these old releases anymore. All older stable 
releases will remain available, but old releases labelled "dp" or "rc" will be 
removed from your account and from the download pages on our servers. If you do 
already have one of these downloads, the licensing will continue to work with 
it, however I strongly advise you to move to using a stable release, these are 
test releases and not intended for general use.

We will of course continue to offer the rc and dp releases for our latest 
build/s whilst they are under development.

If you think this will affect you, please do feel free to reply to this email, 
we would be very interested to hear why you are using an older, unstable and 
unsupported release.

Best Regards,

Heather
Copyright © 2021 LiveCode Ltd, All rights reserved.
You joined this list upon creating an account and confirming your email address 
at LiveCode.com .

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RCs and DPs

[Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode]

As well as the expected stripping out of community versions from 
https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/, it seems that all RCs and DPs have 
gone, leaving only STABLE versions (or have I just mis-remembered that they 
used all to be there?).


Is there going to be a change in how RCs and DPs are made available? Will they 
appear on that page, at least until superceded by a stable version? Or 
something else?


TIA,

Ben

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Re: LiveCode 10 - what are your thoughts on the new features?

[Jim Lambert via use-livecode]

> Jacque wrote:
> 
> But while I agree completely with your definition, it got me concerned that 
> if I were to marry a very tall, large man, I would be a bigamist.

A 24 carat post!
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Re: LiveCode 10 - what are your thoughts on the new features?

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 9/9/21 8:53 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:


The former.


Yay. Thanks.

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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RE: LiveCode 10 - what are your thoughts on the new features?

[Ralph DiMola via use-livecode]

>put [4, 5, 6] into tVar2
>
>equivalent to
>
> put 4 into tVar2[1]
> put 5 into tVar2[2]
> put 6 into tVar2[3]
>
>or
>
> put 4 into tVar2[4]
> put 5 into tVar2[5]
> put 6 into tVar2[6]

I hope it's the former.

What about

put ["a","b","c"] into tVar3

Is this that same as

put "a" into tVar3[1]
put "b" into tVar3[2]
put "c" into tVar3[3]

???

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net


-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
Mark Wieder via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2021 11:47 AM
To: Mark Waddingham via use-livecode
Cc: Mark Wieder
Subject: Re: LiveCode 10 - what are your thoughts on the new features?

On 9/8/21 10:40 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:

>put [1, 2, 3] into tVar2
> 
> is equivalent to:
> 
>put 1 into tVar2[1]
>put 2 into tVar2[2]
>put 3 into tVar2[3]

That's still ambiguous, though. Is

put [4, 5, 6] into tVar2

equivalent to

 put 4 into tVar2[1]
 put 5 into tVar2[2]
 put 6 into tVar2[3]

or

 put 4 into tVar2[4]
 put 5 into tVar2[5]
 put 6 into tVar2[6]

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: LiveCode 10 - what are your thoughts on the new features?

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

On 2021-09-09 16:47, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote:

On 9/8/21 10:40 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:


   put [1, 2, 3] into tVar2

is equivalent to:

   put 1 into tVar2[1]
   put 2 into tVar2[2]
   put 3 into tVar2[3]


That's still ambiguous, though. Is

put [4, 5, 6] into tVar2

equivalent to

put 4 into tVar2[1]
put 5 into tVar2[2]
put 6 into tVar2[3]

or

put 4 into tVar2[4]
put 5 into tVar2[5]
put 6 into tVar2[6]


The former.

[ V1, ..., VN ] denotes a sequence which is an array mapping the key i 
to Vi.


{ "K1": V1, ..., "KN": VN } denotes a dictionary which is an array 
mapping Ki to Vi.


Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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Re: LiveCode 10 - what are your thoughts on the new features?

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 9/8/21 10:40 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:


   put [1, 2, 3] into tVar2

is equivalent to:

   put 1 into tVar2[1]
   put 2 into tVar2[2]
   put 3 into tVar2[3]


That's still ambiguous, though. Is

put [4, 5, 6] into tVar2

equivalent to

put 4 into tVar2[1]
put 5 into tVar2[2]
put 6 into tVar2[3]

or

put 4 into tVar2[4]
put 5 into tVar2[5]
put 6 into tVar2[6]

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: Send a table in an email.

[Rick Harrison via use-livecode]

Hi Sean,

Maybe you should have led with your explanation.

Cheers,

Rick

> On Sep 9, 2021, at 4:35 AM, Pi Digital via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hehe. Full of ‘solutions’ :)
> 
> It’s because we need to see it as a table in an email :D
> That’s the point of the question. 
> 
> Here’s my full process if it helps you understand. 
> 
> I (that is to say, a server I code and manage) process around 100-120 emails 
> a day from the mobile (cell phone) carriers O2 and EE. They all get done at 
> about 5am every day at including weekends. Some have call data in them and 
> some do not. Some have broken csv’s in them. Myself and others in the team 
> need to quickly know when it breaks so we can look into it. 
> 
> So, to be absolutely sure, we email ourselves every morning a list of which 
> emails have been processed for all of the clients (4 so far). It has the 
> details of the email UID, the customer name, the client(or Dealer as we call 
> them) name, the date range, the account number, number of Kb, and a bunch of 
> other relevant data to us. This list has grown. Each line has a of course a 
> different length and does not format out like the table it is put into in LC. 
> 
> The purpose of the email is a forceful reminder to us to check. The subject 
> let’s us know immediately if there may be issues by telling us how many got 
> processed and how many had data and how many are potentially broken. These 
> can only be indicators. We find ourselves in the rubbish position of checking 
> it over by eye. 
> 
> We ‘could’ have it sent to a database, or show up in an app or all manner of 
> other methods but by far and away the simplest way for us to daily get this 
> reminder is by a simple email with a heading and a list. Email is a system 
> with a long track record of ‘working’. The fact that email still exists is 
> testament to this. A quick scan over this daily doc helps us quickly see 
> which ones we’ve already checked, what potential issues there are and, more 
> importantly for me, if the remote server had completely fallen over. No need 
> to open any links or other software to view quickly a stream of data. It’s 
> easier to recall and delete than our mySQL database. Email is just there, 
> always. 
> 
> So, the ability to quickly convert our little table from a text field on the 
> server into the body of an email is what I’m looking to do. I had expected 
> the mime field encoder to do this but it seems it’s only very simple in its 
> view of a field. 
> 
> The data returned from ‘the htmlText of field’ is so long and convoluted and 
> also does not contain either the correct formatting or table info suitable 
> for email. 
> 
> So, it looks like if I have to do it I will have to code a whole html method 
> for expressing it as a table in an email body that email will accept and 
> display as expected. That’s why I had ‘hoped’ that the MIME encoder already 
> did it for us. Alas, negatory!
> 
> I didn’t want to have to have put all this into an email when asking the 
> question and ‘hoped’ that a simple question would suffice to get a simple 
> answer (which MarkW was gracious to provide from the most qualified position 
> I know). 
> 
> But, seriously, thank you for your interest and attempts to offer useful 
> suggestions. Sometimes what sounds like a simple answer actually just 
> overcomplicates the ‘end user experience’. Something we as software engineers 
> should be ever aware of ;)
> 
> Thanks again
> 
> Sean
> Pi Digital

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Re: LiveCode 10 - what are your thoughts on the new features?

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

Any thread in which two LC team members participate cannot possibly be 
considered off-topic and subsequently banned.


But while I agree completely with your definition, it got me concerned that 
if I were to marry a very tall, large man, I would be a bigamist.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On September 9, 2021 5:52:02 AM Heather Laine via use-livecode 
 wrote:


Ok, I cannot help myself. Somewhere in this thread was mentioned "a couple 
of carrots" and this was defined as two. It is in fact not two. It is the 
equivalent amount of carrots to about 2, if the carrots are well sized but 
not enormous. If you have small carrots, please chop 3. If they are huge, 
one is enough. Thus, a couple of carrots. A perfectly sensible request 
which any sensible husband should be able to interpret correctly.


Warmest regards to all, and should I add carrots to cheese as items that 
should not arise too often for extensive discussion?


Heather


Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



On 9 Sep 2021, at 11:26, Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
 wrote:


I’ll just add that a couple of pints never means exactly two pints….

Language is a very fluid thing.

Sent from my iPhone

On 8 Sep 2021, at 23:14, matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
 wrote:


Btw. this is how Merriam-Webster thinks about couple, few and several.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/couple-few-several-use 





Am 09.09.2021 um 00:08 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
:


More than three.



Am 09.09.2021 um 00:04 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
:


Then what does a few mean?

Bob S


On Sep 8, 2021, at 14:49 , matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
 wrote:


How lucky we Germans are with having to write some words in capitals. ;)

'ein Paar' (a couple)  means 2
'ein Paar Schuhe' means a pair of shoes

'ein paar' means two or three or somewhere in the range.
'ein paar Schuhe' means 2 or 3 or somewhere in the range shoes


In the English lessons in school  we learned  that for example  'a couple 
of days' meant 2 or 3 or somewhere in that range.
And when we used  'couple' as a noun then it was meant as  2 that belong to 
each other or however you would call that.
e.g. married couple, bird couple. That's the way i use 'couple" now for 
more than 40 years.


Don't tell me that i was wrong more than 40 years. ;)


Am 08.09.2021 um 21:54 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
:


My husband said the same when I told him about this thread. "Couple" means 
two. I said yes, but colloquially it can mean "two or three or somewhere in 
that range." We almost started a longer discussion about it, but I reminded 
him of our 30+ years of ongoing talk about a "fact" so we both stopped.



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Re: LiveCode 10 - what are your thoughts on the new features?

[Martin Koob via use-livecode]

Hi Heather

The mention of carrots was mine.  I agree with your logic “couple" is a fuzzy 
number which I am fine with (though when it comes to carrots themselves fuzzy 
is not good.)  Yesterday the carrots were very small and striving to be a 
sensible husband I chopped 5 up.  I of course I checked before chopping to make 
sure that was the correct amount.   I wonder if there is a difference between 
'a couple carrots' and "a couple OF carrots"?

Anyway I agree this carrot thread is getting close to going beyond the line of 
silliness and maybe should be banished from discussions on the list here along 
with that other orange food that may not be mentioned here that rhymes with 
please.

Have a good day all.

Martin.

> On Sep 9, 2021, at 6:50 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Ok, I cannot help myself. Somewhere in this thread was mentioned "a couple of 
> carrots" and this was defined as two. It is in fact not two. It is the 
> equivalent amount of carrots to about 2, if the carrots are well sized but 
> not enormous. If you have small carrots, please chop 3. If they are huge, one 
> is enough. Thus, a couple of carrots. A perfectly sensible request which any 
> sensible husband should be able to interpret correctly.
> 
> Warmest regards to all, and should I add carrots to cheese as items that 
> should not arise too often for extensive discussion?
> 
> Heather
> 
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 9 Sep 2021, at 11:26, Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I’ll just add that a couple of pints never means exactly two pints….
>> 
>> Language is a very fluid thing. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 8 Sep 2021, at 23:14, matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Btw. this is how Merriam-Webster thinks about couple, few and several.
>>> 
>>> https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/couple-few-several-use 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 Am 09.09.2021 um 00:08 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
 :
 
 More than three. 
 
 
 
>> Am 09.09.2021 um 00:04 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>> :
> 
> Then what does a few mean? 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Sep 8, 2021, at 14:49 , matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> How lucky we Germans are with having to write some words in capitals. ;) 
>> 
>> 'ein Paar' (a couple)  means 2
>> 'ein Paar Schuhe' means a pair of shoes
>> 
>> 'ein paar' means two or three or somewhere in the range.
>> 'ein paar Schuhe' means 2 or 3 or somewhere in the range shoes 
>> 
>> 
>> In the English lessons in school  we learned  that for example  'a 
>> couple of days' meant 2 or 3 or somewhere in that range.
>> And when we used  'couple' as a noun then it was meant as  2 that belong 
>> to each other or however you would call that.
>> e.g. married couple, bird couple. That's the way i use 'couple" now for 
>> more than 40 years. 
>> 
>> Don't tell me that i was wrong more than 40 years. ;) 
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 08.09.2021 um 21:54 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>> :
>>> 
>>> My husband said the same when I told him about this thread. "Couple" 
>>> means two. I said yes, but colloquially it can mean "two or three or 
>>> somewhere in that range." We almost started a longer discussion about 
>>> it, but I reminded him of our 30+ years of ongoing talk about a "fact" 
>>> so we both stopped.
> 
> 
> ___
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RE: LiveCode 10 - what are your thoughts on the new features?

[Ralph DiMola via use-livecode]

"Language is a very fluid thing." Yes it is. Up here in NYS we stop off for the 
"One". Where "one" is from 1 to ...

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net

-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2021 6:27 AM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Andre Garzia
Subject: Re: LiveCode 10 - what are your thoughts on the new features?

I’ll just add that a couple of pints never means exactly two pints….

Language is a very fluid thing. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 8 Sep 2021, at 23:14, matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Btw. this is how Merriam-Webster thinks about couple, few and several.
> 
> https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/couple-few-several-use 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> Am 09.09.2021 um 00:08 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>> :
>> 
>> More than three. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
 Am 09.09.2021 um 00:04 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
 :
>>> 
>>> Then what does a few mean? 
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>> 
 On Sep 8, 2021, at 14:49 , matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
  wrote:
 
 How lucky we Germans are with having to write some words in capitals. ;) 
 
 'ein Paar' (a couple)  means 2
 'ein Paar Schuhe' means a pair of shoes
 
 'ein paar' means two or three or somewhere in the range.
 'ein paar Schuhe' means 2 or 3 or somewhere in the range shoes 
 
 
 In the English lessons in school  we learned  that for example  'a couple 
 of days' meant 2 or 3 or somewhere in that range.
 And when we used  'couple' as a noun then it was meant as  2 that belong 
 to each other or however you would call that.
 e.g. married couple, bird couple. That's the way i use 'couple" now for 
 more than 40 years. 
 
 Don't tell me that i was wrong more than 40 years. ;) 
 
 
> Am 08.09.2021 um 21:54 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> My husband said the same when I told him about this thread. "Couple" 
> means two. I said yes, but colloquially it can mean "two or three or 
> somewhere in that range." We almost started a longer discussion about it, 
> but I reminded him of our 30+ years of ongoing talk about a "fact" so we 
> both stopped.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> subscription preferences:
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>> 
>> 
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Re: Send a table in an email.

[Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode]

Ben,

That's perfect, and kind of what I'd said in one of my previous, although
not as succinctly or as well explained. Thanks for this as a way of
confirming an idea. (I tend to use {{table}} as my replacement strings. It
goes back to my coding back in the 80s/90s)

I've put the projects to one side as it was only a 'could you just' request
from one of the team and only helps us view it a bit easier. I have bigger
fish to fry at the moment. But I'll revisit the thread when I've done it
and post the 'solution' for others to use.

Thanks again.

Sean
*Pi Digital *

On Thu, 9 Sept 2021 at 14:23, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Sean,
>
> Not to wind you up with yet another 'helpful' suggestion... but here's
> what I
> would do, if I've understood you correctly.
>
> I think you're formatting a nice message in a field using LC styling; then
> using the Mime Encoder feature to format it to include in an email. But
> when
> you try to put a table in the field, it doesn't come out nicely.
>
> My suggestion would to be do that, but where you want the table in the
> field,
> just put "***TABLE***" or similar.
>
> Then do the minimal work to generate the table in HTML format, and insert
> in
> the result of the mime encoder, so you end up doing something like
>
> put mimeEncodeFieldAsMIMEMultipartDocument(pField) into
> tMessageBody
> replace "***TABLE***" with tHTMLtable in tMessageBody
>
> Let the MIME encoder do all the dirty work it does on the messy stuff. Do
> the
> straightforward rendering of a table in HTML yourself. Combine the two.
>
> My 2c. Apologies if this a lecture on sucking eggs.
>
> Ben
>
>
> On 09/09/2021 09:35, Pi Digital via use-livecode wrote:
> > Hehe. Full of ‘solutions’ :)
> >
> > It’s because we need to see it as a table in an email :D
> > That’s the point of the question.
> >
> > Here’s my full process if it helps you understand.
> >
> > I (that is to say, a server I code and manage) process around 100-120
> emails a day from the mobile (cell phone) carriers O2 and EE. They all get
> done at about 5am every day at including weekends. Some have call data in
> them and some do not. Some have broken csv’s in them. Myself and others in
> the team need to quickly know when it breaks so we can look into it.
> >
> > So, to be absolutely sure, we email ourselves every morning a list of
> which emails have been processed for all of the clients (4 so far). It has
> the details of the email UID, the customer name, the client(or Dealer as we
> call them) name, the date range, the account number, number of Kb, and a
> bunch of other relevant data to us. This list has grown. Each line has a of
> course a different length and does not format out like the table it is put
> into in LC.
> >
> > The purpose of the email is a forceful reminder to us to check. The
> subject let’s us know immediately if there may be issues by telling us how
> many got processed and how many had data and how many are potentially
> broken. These can only be indicators. We find ourselves in the rubbish
> position of checking it over by eye.
> >
> > We ‘could’ have it sent to a database, or show up in an app or all
> manner of other methods but by far and away the simplest way for us to
> daily get this reminder is by a simple email with a heading and a list.
> Email is a system with a long track record of ‘working’. The fact that
> email still exists is testament to this. A quick scan over this daily doc
> helps us quickly see which ones we’ve already checked, what potential
> issues there are and, more importantly for me, if the remote server had
> completely fallen over. No need to open any links or other software to view
> quickly a stream of data. It’s easier to recall and delete than our mySQL
> database. Email is just there, always.
> >
> > So, the ability to quickly convert our little table from a text field on
> the server into the body of an email is what I’m looking to do. I had
> expected the mime field encoder to do this but it seems it’s only very
> simple in its view of a field.
> >
> > The data returned from ‘the htmlText of field’ is so long and convoluted
> and also does not contain either the correct formatting or table info
> suitable for email.
> >
> > So, it looks like if I have to do it I will have to code a whole html
> method for expressing it as a table in an email body that email will accept
> and display as expected. That’s why I had ‘hoped’ that the MIME encoder
> already did it for us. Alas, negatory!
> >
> > I didn’t want to have to have put all this into an email when asking the
> question and ‘hoped’ that a simple question would suffice to get a simple
> answer (which MarkW was gracious to provide from the most qualified
> position I know).
> >
> > But, seriously, thank you for your interest and attempts to offer useful
> suggestions. Sometimes what sounds like a simple answer actually just
> overcomplicates the ‘end user experience’. 

Re: LiveCode Community - anyone up for maintaining the community edition?

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

On 2021-09-08 22:54, Paul McClernan via use-livecode wrote:
I've already fixed a bug that I reported back in April in my fork(s) 
and

added a link to my fix to that bugzilla report.

https://github.com/PaulMcClernan/LiveCodeCommunity-IDE-DontPanicEdition


At this point in any changed relationship, it’s necessary to set out the 
new terms, as amicably as possible. Each side needs to clearly 
understand where they can and cannot go now. As our move away from 
supporting Open Source LiveCode is still very new, it’s likely the 
ramifications are not as yet understood.


I have to ask you (and anyone involved in that project, or any other 
forks) politely not to submit any changes back to bugzilla or anywhere 
else associated with LiveCode Ltd. as it creates a business risk for us.


We (LiveCode Ltd.) cannot take any code changes you make to your 
project's version of the LiveCode source-code and use them in our 
commercial code as (by default) it will be GPLv3 licensed, and the 
copyright of that will be held by the person who authored the changes; 
just as you cannot change the license from GPLv3 nor copyright 
attribution (LiveCode Ltd.) - whether explicit or implicit - of any 
existing line of code in your project's fork of the LiveCode 
repositories, nor take any changes which appear from now onwards in any 
commercial edition to incorporate into your project.


When we were running the open source project, we had in place a 
Contributor's License Agreement which meant that the copyright of any 
code authored by a contributor in any patch submitted to LiveCode Ltd 
was assigned to us. However, this only extended to contributions 
submitted through GitHub, where there was an appropriate immutable 
record of such submissions and it was universally clear what changes 
were being made. For obvious reasons, this no longer exists.


More generally, I must also ask you not to use the LiveCode mailing 
list, bug reporting system or LiveCode forums for discussions 
surrounding your fork - particularly related to plans, ideas, 
developments and changes which are being or have been made.


At no point do I want us to be the target of any sort of public ill-will 
or indeed lawsuit due to assertions of copyright theft, or appropriation 
of other people's ideas that were not clearly (whether implicitly or 
explicitly) proffered to us directly.


The only way to ensure that is for any forks (yours included) to stand 
completely independently and by themselves - with their own 
communication forums, distinctive product name and distinct branding so 
there can be no risk of confusion nor appropriation of anything from 
either side.


I should point out that recent events are actually nothing to do with my 
above words - I would have said the same to any fork maintainer who 
actively sought to advertise their fork within the existing LiveCode 
community - as defined by LiveCode's mailing lists, forums, bug 
reporting system, or any other forum owned and run by LiveCode Ltd. for 
the purposes of public interaction - or posted links to code changes 
from that project or on any such forum/system. Indeed, ensuring complete 
independence really is standard practice when forks are made of open 
source projects - OpenOffice and LibreOffice spring to mind.


We fully respect the legacy we have created in terms of the GPLv3 
source-code, copyrighted to LiveCode Ltd., which is forever preserved in 
the archived GitHub repositories in the LiveCode GitHub account which 
carry the LiveCode name. We have no issue with any or all forks or 
open-source GPLv3-based projects which might arise from that legacy.


All we ask is that any such project ensures that it respects LiveCode 
Ltd.'s intellectual property as embodied within that (through its GPLv3 
licensed, copyrighted source-code) and also respects LiveCode Ltd.'s 
right to assert itself as the only entitled user of the LiveCode name, 
trademarks and brand identity.


With all that said, I wish you, and anyone who joins you, well with your 
endeavour.


Have fun!

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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Re: Send a table in an email.

[Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode]

Hi Sean,

Not to wind you up with yet another 'helpful' suggestion... but here's what I 
would do, if I've understood you correctly.


I think you're formatting a nice message in a field using LC styling; then 
using the Mime Encoder feature to format it to include in an email. But when 
you try to put a table in the field, it doesn't come out nicely.


My suggestion would to be do that, but where you want the table in the field, 
just put "***TABLE***" or similar.


Then do the minimal work to generate the table in HTML format, and insert in 
the result of the mime encoder, so you end up doing something like


put mimeEncodeFieldAsMIMEMultipartDocument(pField) into tMessageBody
replace "***TABLE***" with tHTMLtable in tMessageBody

Let the MIME encoder do all the dirty work it does on the messy stuff. Do the 
straightforward rendering of a table in HTML yourself. Combine the two.


My 2c. Apologies if this a lecture on sucking eggs.

Ben


On 09/09/2021 09:35, Pi Digital via use-livecode wrote:

Hehe. Full of ‘solutions’ :)

It’s because we need to see it as a table in an email :D
That’s the point of the question.

Here’s my full process if it helps you understand.

I (that is to say, a server I code and manage) process around 100-120 emails a 
day from the mobile (cell phone) carriers O2 and EE. They all get done at about 
5am every day at including weekends. Some have call data in them and some do 
not. Some have broken csv’s in them. Myself and others in the team need to 
quickly know when it breaks so we can look into it.

So, to be absolutely sure, we email ourselves every morning a list of which 
emails have been processed for all of the clients (4 so far). It has the 
details of the email UID, the customer name, the client(or Dealer as we call 
them) name, the date range, the account number, number of Kb, and a bunch of 
other relevant data to us. This list has grown. Each line has a of course a 
different length and does not format out like the table it is put into in LC.

The purpose of the email is a forceful reminder to us to check. The subject 
let’s us know immediately if there may be issues by telling us how many got 
processed and how many had data and how many are potentially broken. These can 
only be indicators. We find ourselves in the rubbish position of checking it 
over by eye.

We ‘could’ have it sent to a database, or show up in an app or all manner of 
other methods but by far and away the simplest way for us to daily get this 
reminder is by a simple email with a heading and a list. Email is a system with 
a long track record of ‘working’. The fact that email still exists is testament 
to this. A quick scan over this daily doc helps us quickly see which ones we’ve 
already checked, what potential issues there are and, more importantly for me, 
if the remote server had completely fallen over. No need to open any links or 
other software to view quickly a stream of data. It’s easier to recall and 
delete than our mySQL database. Email is just there, always.

So, the ability to quickly convert our little table from a text field on the 
server into the body of an email is what I’m looking to do. I had expected the 
mime field encoder to do this but it seems it’s only very simple in its view of 
a field.

The data returned from ‘the htmlText of field’ is so long and convoluted and 
also does not contain either the correct formatting or table info suitable for 
email.

So, it looks like if I have to do it I will have to code a whole html method 
for expressing it as a table in an email body that email will accept and 
display as expected. That’s why I had ‘hoped’ that the MIME encoder already did 
it for us. Alas, negatory!

I didn’t want to have to have put all this into an email when asking the 
question and ‘hoped’ that a simple question would suffice to get a simple 
answer (which MarkW was gracious to provide from the most qualified position I 
know).

But, seriously, thank you for your interest and attempts to offer useful 
suggestions. Sometimes what sounds like a simple answer actually just 
overcomplicates the ‘end user experience’. Something we as software engineers 
should be ever aware of ;)

Thanks again

Sean
Pi Digital



On 9 Sep 2021, at 05:29, Rick Harrison via use-livecode 
 wrote:

Hi Sean,

Why don’t you just email them a spreadsheet or a .csv file,
let them open it. and they can copy and paste whatever they want
into their own spreadsheet?

Rick



On Sep 8, 2021, at 10:43 PM, Pi Digital via use-livecode 
 wrote:

Hi Rick

Because, as stated before, you can’t select the text and paste it into a 
spreadsheet.

Thanks though.

Sean


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Re: LiveCode Community - anyone up for maintaining the community edition?

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

Just as a way of showing off my goofiness: how do I compile LiveCode
from your github downloadables?

On Thu, Sep 9, 2021 at 12:55 AM Paul McClernan via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Well I've wanted to contribute more, and have as time allowed. I first had
> to learn how to use GitHub before I could even start to contribute, and did
> appreciate the hand holding I got from the team along the way. But
> understand that LC needs to be very careful and methodical about what they
> merged into their main repo, this made even contributing simple spelling
> fixes to the docs (which also requires some understanding of .markdown used
> in .lcdoc) a tedious task. Additionally,in don't think it was clear to a
> some users a lot of the IDE/libs are bootstrapped and so one only needs an
> understanding of LCScript to contribute changes.
>
> Contributing to the engine code, however, is not the only way Community
> could contribute. I jumped on the chance to extend the possibilities by
> learning LCBuilder once that became available, made all of my LCB work open
> source in Hope's of encouraging and helping others to get over the learning
> curve inherent in that. Community freely supporting other members of the
> community should also be valued.
>
> I will likely get on board LC10 train at some point, when I know more about
> the improvements being made to it, beyond syntax changea and a faster HTML5
> engine. But I also plan to try to improve and maintain my own fork of LCC,
> and I hope others will explore the many possibilities with that as well.
>
> I've already fixed a bug that I reported back in April in my fork(s) and
> added a link to my fix to that bugzilla report.
>
> https://github.com/PaulMcClernan/LiveCodeCommunity-IDE-DontPanicEdition
>
> On Wed, Sep 1, 2021, 7:56 AM David Bovill via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Here are my thoughts on this - and a request.
> >
> > Yes - it’s not a surprising move by Livecode Ltd - they were clearly
> > struggling supporting the community aspect and taking the language to the
> > next level and they need more revenue to do that.
> >
> > The question is (for my part at least) - what to do about this.
> Personally
> > I have never seen a future for a closed source language, and the
> projects I
> > work on will not fund. Projects developed in closed source - especially
> by
> > a small company. So I have a choice, switch language, or look to continue
> > with developing with the community edition and help build an open source
> > community around that. The former (switching languages) is relatively
> easy,
> > the latter a lot of work.
> >
> > I’m happy to have a company like Livecode Ltd create closed source
> > products  that I can use, so how to have both an open source language,
> and
> > the ability to work with closed source products developed by Livecode
> Ltd?
> > As I see it the only option is for those interested in the community to
> > take control and responsibility for the core language.
> >
> > There are a number of options with regard to future language development,
> > that would put the language on an even par with other open source
> > languages, and there are also new ways to finance such initiatives. It
> > would be valuable to get together as a community and discuss those.
> >
> > How about having a community conference to look at what is possible? We
> > can do this online and showcase new and existing open source projects and
> > discuss the opportunities this new environment presents?
> >
> >
> > Schedule a call with me
> > On 1 Sep 2021, 12:18 +0100, David V Glasgow via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > On 1 Sep 2021, at 11:26 am, Bernard Devlin via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > There you had a group of programmers who supposedly loved what
> > > > HyperCard could do, but they only loved that concept as a historical
> > > > artefact, not as a tool available to people now.
> > >
> > > Abso-frogging-lutely.
> > >
> > > The really interesting questions are “why?" and “Is there anything we
> > could do about it?”
> > >
> > >
> > > Best Wishes,
> > >
> > > David Glasgow
> > > Consultant Forensic & Clinical Psychologist
> > > Carlton Glasgow Partnership
> > > Director, Child & Family Training, York
> > > Honorary Professor
> > > Sexual Offences, Crime and Misconduct Research Unit
> > > Nottingham Trent University
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
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> > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
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> > subscription 

Re: LiveCode 10 - what are your thoughts on the new features?

[Heather Laine via use-livecode]

Ok, I cannot help myself. Somewhere in this thread was mentioned "a couple of 
carrots" and this was defined as two. It is in fact not two. It is the 
equivalent amount of carrots to about 2, if the carrots are well sized but not 
enormous. If you have small carrots, please chop 3. If they are huge, one is 
enough. Thus, a couple of carrots. A perfectly sensible request which any 
sensible husband should be able to interpret correctly.

Warmest regards to all, and should I add carrots to cheese as items that should 
not arise too often for extensive discussion?

Heather


Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 9 Sep 2021, at 11:26, Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I’ll just add that a couple of pints never means exactly two pints….
> 
> Language is a very fluid thing. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 8 Sep 2021, at 23:14, matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Btw. this is how Merriam-Webster thinks about couple, few and several.
>> 
>> https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/couple-few-several-use 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 09.09.2021 um 00:08 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>>> :
>>> 
>>> More than three. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
> Am 09.09.2021 um 00:04 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
> :
 
 Then what does a few mean? 
 
 Bob S
 
 
> On Sep 8, 2021, at 14:49 , matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> How lucky we Germans are with having to write some words in capitals. ;) 
> 
> 'ein Paar' (a couple)  means 2
> 'ein Paar Schuhe' means a pair of shoes
> 
> 'ein paar' means two or three or somewhere in the range.
> 'ein paar Schuhe' means 2 or 3 or somewhere in the range shoes 
> 
> 
> In the English lessons in school  we learned  that for example  'a couple 
> of days' meant 2 or 3 or somewhere in that range.
> And when we used  'couple' as a noun then it was meant as  2 that belong 
> to each other or however you would call that.
> e.g. married couple, bird couple. That's the way i use 'couple" now for 
> more than 40 years. 
> 
> Don't tell me that i was wrong more than 40 years. ;) 
> 
> 
>> Am 08.09.2021 um 21:54 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>> :
>> 
>> My husband said the same when I told him about this thread. "Couple" 
>> means two. I said yes, but colloquially it can mean "two or three or 
>> somewhere in that range." We almost started a longer discussion about 
>> it, but I reminded him of our 30+ years of ongoing talk about a "fact" 
>> so we both stopped.
 
 
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>>> 
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Re: LiveCode 10 - what are your thoughts on the new features?

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

I’ll just add that a couple of pints never means exactly two pints….

Language is a very fluid thing. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 8 Sep 2021, at 23:14, matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Btw. this is how Merriam-Webster thinks about couple, few and several.
> 
> https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/couple-few-several-use 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> Am 09.09.2021 um 00:08 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>> :
>> 
>> More than three. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
 Am 09.09.2021 um 00:04 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
 :
>>> 
>>> Then what does a few mean? 
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>> 
 On Sep 8, 2021, at 14:49 , matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
  wrote:
 
 How lucky we Germans are with having to write some words in capitals. ;) 
 
 'ein Paar' (a couple)  means 2
 'ein Paar Schuhe' means a pair of shoes
 
 'ein paar' means two or three or somewhere in the range.
 'ein paar Schuhe' means 2 or 3 or somewhere in the range shoes 
 
 
 In the English lessons in school  we learned  that for example  'a couple 
 of days' meant 2 or 3 or somewhere in that range.
 And when we used  'couple' as a noun then it was meant as  2 that belong 
 to each other or however you would call that.
 e.g. married couple, bird couple. That's the way i use 'couple" now for 
 more than 40 years. 
 
 Don't tell me that i was wrong more than 40 years. ;) 
 
 
> Am 08.09.2021 um 21:54 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> My husband said the same when I told him about this thread. "Couple" 
> means two. I said yes, but colloquially it can mean "two or three or 
> somewhere in that range." We almost started a longer discussion about it, 
> but I reminded him of our 30+ years of ongoing talk about a "fact" so we 
> both stopped.
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: AW: IDE performance (Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition)

[Bernard Devlin via use-livecode]

Hi Lagi

I just went back and repeated my steps from a couple of days ago.

New start for IDE, new stack, pasted in the same 8,000 lines as a comment.
And this time there was no slow down. So it does look like any such
problems are less predictable than my initial test suggested. I toggled on
then off all the options in the Script Editor related to autocomplete, etc.
And no matter what state they were in made no difference.  In the light of
this unreproduceability - how can LC be expected to identify/fix this
problem?   It may not even be within their control and certainly they can't
start to spend resources investigating it if the professional programmers
using LC on Win10 can't identify a predicable pattern.

I took my 8,000 lines of text and re-started the IDE multiple times. And
then I added 50% more to the comment. It does seem that the longer the
script is the more likely that your treacle problem is going to appear.
Perhaps if you tried this you could come up with a more definite pattern
and if so, then LC could look at why it is that a 8000, 12000, 18000 line
script causes a slow down.  With 12,000 lines even switching off all the
Edit/Options made no improvement: adding a return to a line took 3 seconds
for the screen to update.

What happens if you have a 24,000 line script? Do you get a predictable
pattern? Is it always slow?  Once you get a predictable recipe then LC Ltd
have something they can work on. Personally I'd find a 12,000 line script
really hard to navigate. But until LC Ltd specify that there's a length to
how long a script can be, there's no reason why you shouldn't have 12,000
line scripts.

Yesterday my Win10 laptop totally froze. I had open only two programmes: MS
OneNote and Chrome.  Even ctrl-alt-delete did nothing. I couldn't even
bring up task manager to see what could possibly be using all the
resources. After minutes of waiting for it to respond, I went to remove
battery and power cable (normal power button is set to hibernate not power
off), and suddenly it started to respond again. When I worked in tech
support I was the star problem solver. And now I've over 20 years more
experience with computing, but these days Windows 10 leaves me scratching
my head. MS have done some great things (WSL is one of them).

In my experience the weird behaviour I experience with Win10 is much, much
rarer on a Mac (I can't remember an incident in 20 years of using a variety
of Macs). On a different Win10 machine I have a well-know SQL editor.
Whenever it asks if I want to apply an update to it and I click "no", it
crashes. It's never been updated since I installed it. But this behaviour
only started a few months ago. To me that's really weird. When something
works I don't upgrade because it works as is.

Regards, Bernard

On Wed, Sep 8, 2021 at 11:59 PM Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Bernard,
>
>
> I didn't make myself clear - it can work for hours with no slowdown at
> 13,000 lines on an older computer there is just no pattern.
>
> Lagi
>
> On Wed, 8 Sept 2021 at 18:54, Bernard Devlin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > I pasted 8000 lines of text into Script Editor on Windows (just 1 large
> > block comment).  On typing chars take a couple of seconds to appear once
> > there is that much text.  Cut it down to 800 lines and it's fine.
> >
> > With 8000 lines switch off "live errors" and the slow typing issue is
> gone.
> >
> > I've asked Erik to try with 8000 line comment on his 32GB rig, since he
> has
> > no problems. He might have to increase the size of the text in that field
> > to 12000 or 16000, but I suspect eventually he too will get your treacle.
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 8, 2021 at 4:52 PM Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > When it works it works - I cut the main stack to 7000 lines and still
> get
> > > the slowdown.
> > >
> > > When it slows down its the same treacle/quicksand/molasses whether the
> > > machine is a 10th gen with 16g or an 8gig pentium - when its fast its
> > fast
> > > on both - no consistency
> > >
> > > Lagi
> > >
> > >
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>
>
> --
> KIndest Regards Lagi
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Re: Send a table in an email.

[Pi Digital via use-livecode]

Hehe. Full of ‘solutions’ :)

It’s because we need to see it as a table in an email :D
That’s the point of the question. 

Here’s my full process if it helps you understand. 

I (that is to say, a server I code and manage) process around 100-120 emails a 
day from the mobile (cell phone) carriers O2 and EE. They all get done at about 
5am every day at including weekends. Some have call data in them and some do 
not. Some have broken csv’s in them. Myself and others in the team need to 
quickly know when it breaks so we can look into it. 

So, to be absolutely sure, we email ourselves every morning a list of which 
emails have been processed for all of the clients (4 so far). It has the 
details of the email UID, the customer name, the client(or Dealer as we call 
them) name, the date range, the account number, number of Kb, and a bunch of 
other relevant data to us. This list has grown. Each line has a of course a 
different length and does not format out like the table it is put into in LC. 

The purpose of the email is a forceful reminder to us to check. The subject 
let’s us know immediately if there may be issues by telling us how many got 
processed and how many had data and how many are potentially broken. These can 
only be indicators. We find ourselves in the rubbish position of checking it 
over by eye. 

We ‘could’ have it sent to a database, or show up in an app or all manner of 
other methods but by far and away the simplest way for us to daily get this 
reminder is by a simple email with a heading and a list. Email is a system with 
a long track record of ‘working’. The fact that email still exists is testament 
to this. A quick scan over this daily doc helps us quickly see which ones we’ve 
already checked, what potential issues there are and, more importantly for me, 
if the remote server had completely fallen over. No need to open any links or 
other software to view quickly a stream of data. It’s easier to recall and 
delete than our mySQL database. Email is just there, always. 

So, the ability to quickly convert our little table from a text field on the 
server into the body of an email is what I’m looking to do. I had expected the 
mime field encoder to do this but it seems it’s only very simple in its view of 
a field. 

The data returned from ‘the htmlText of field’ is so long and convoluted and 
also does not contain either the correct formatting or table info suitable for 
email. 

So, it looks like if I have to do it I will have to code a whole html method 
for expressing it as a table in an email body that email will accept and 
display as expected. That’s why I had ‘hoped’ that the MIME encoder already did 
it for us. Alas, negatory!

I didn’t want to have to have put all this into an email when asking the 
question and ‘hoped’ that a simple question would suffice to get a simple 
answer (which MarkW was gracious to provide from the most qualified position I 
know). 

But, seriously, thank you for your interest and attempts to offer useful 
suggestions. Sometimes what sounds like a simple answer actually just 
overcomplicates the ‘end user experience’. Something we as software engineers 
should be ever aware of ;)

Thanks again

Sean
Pi Digital


> On 9 Sep 2021, at 05:29, Rick Harrison via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Sean,
> 
> Why don’t you just email them a spreadsheet or a .csv file,
> let them open it. and they can copy and paste whatever they want
> into their own spreadsheet?
> 
> Rick
> 
> 
>> On Sep 8, 2021, at 10:43 PM, Pi Digital via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Rick
>> 
>> Because, as stated before, you can’t select the text and paste it into a 
>> spreadsheet. 
>> 
>> Thanks though. 
>> 
>> Sean
> 
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Re: Text encoding: summary of results and times.

[David V Glasgow via use-livecode]

So if someone  has a cross platform (Win/Mac) app designed to process text 
files of various and unknown formats and provenance, is there some incantation 
process which would ensure it is best prepared for lots of finding and 
filtering?

Best  wishes

David Glasgow
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Re: randomSeed maximum length

[scott--- via use-livecode]

Thank you, Mark.  That confirms the issue (and workaround) I was having when 
using the millisec to set the randomSeed.
--
Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web   https://elementarysoftware.com/
email sc...@elementarysoftware.com
booth1-360-734-4701
--

> On Sep 9, 2021, at 12:38 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 2021-09-09 08:25, scott--- via use-livecode wrote:
>> Does the randomSeed have a maximum length?
>> Meaning, if the length of the provided number exceeds the maximum
>> length, does the provided number get truncated or dismissed or… ?
> 
> Its a signed 32-bit integer - so range is -2147483648 to 2147483647.
> 
> Numbers outside of this appear to end up setting it to -2147483648.
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps


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Re: randomSeed maximum length

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

On 2021-09-09 08:25, scott--- via use-livecode wrote:

Does the randomSeed have a maximum length?

Meaning, if the length of the provided number exceeds the maximum
length, does the provided number get truncated or dismissed or… ?


Its a signed 32-bit integer - so range is -2147483648 to 2147483647.

Numbers outside of this appear to end up setting it to -2147483648.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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randomSeed maximum length

[scott--- via use-livecode]

Does the randomSeed have a maximum length?  

Meaning, if the length of the provided number exceeds the maximum length, does 
the provided number get truncated or dismissed or… ?

--
Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web   https://elementarysoftware.com/
email sc...@elementarysoftware.com
booth1-360-734-4701
--








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