OT: Facebook -> Meta (Damaged Infinity!)

[Rick Harrison via use-livecode]

Facebook on Thursday announced that it will change its company name to Meta!

It figures he would mess with the infinity symbol to try to make it his own!

Oh well…

Rick
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Message Tracer/IDE Crash Recipes

[Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode]

Craig:

> My one entry into the "bug” poll was to complain
> about random crashes of LC itself now and then.
> Not likely to have that solved anytime soon.

It could be! There is de-crashing LC progress, but it's slow.
This year I reported a crash/hang pair, and that's fixed now.

The problem is a solid recipe, as I'm sure you know.
Searching for "crash" in quality.livecode.com
reveals a bunch of AWAITING_FOLLOW_UP and NOT_REPRODUCED.

For a bug that is unusually difficult to recipe,
it requires collaboration (or etc) to pin it down.
That in turn requires some ... discussion.

(Encouraging that discussion would be in LC's own interest;
customers put a lot of unpaid hard work into bug filing efforts.)

I'm taking a rare opportunity to catch up here on the list
after finally getting over COVID (man, it feels good!)
but must dive back into my own client work and addons updates.

However, LC bugs impact both client work and addons updates too,
so it's all related. LC bug time is mandatory either way!
There's no getting around it.

The survey made me realize I need better LC bug tracking tools,
so I can stay on top of the old and new ones, plus rank them.
And follow up on any reports that have lapsed.

So I'm curious: Craig, what was the nature of your crash?
(Or the bug # / discussion link, if that applies.)
I'll keep it in mind, to see if I can help eventually
with the pesky recipes or crash log data.
May take a while, but we can pin down more of these.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
Christian LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

For the record…

[Quentin Long via use-livecode]

In case anybody actually was curious to know how to type an infinity symbol: On 
a Mac, the keystroke is option-5.
Also on the Mac, there's a cute thingie called "Keyboard Viewer" which does 
what it says on the label. KV displays your entire keyboard, *and* it shows you 
the complete set of characters you can get when you hold down the option key, 
as well as shift-option. It also nicely accommodate the "dead keys" which let 
you type characters with accent marks.
If you've set your machine up to display the "keyboard" dealie in the menubar, 
you can access KV from there. If you haven't done that, you can do it by 
bringing up System Preferences > Keyboard, and clicking on "show keyboard and 
emoji viewers in menu bar"… well, that's how it is in MacOS 10.13.6; I make no 
guarantees re: how Apple may have rearranged things in other OS versions.
And if you neither have the "keyboard" dealie in your menubar, nor *want* to 
have that, bring up SysPref > Keyboard and click on the "Input sources" tab. 
This option isn't *quite* as nice as the genuine KV—it doesn't really handle 
"dead keys"—but it can serve. Again, caveat re: Apple mucking with OS versions, 
yada yada yada.


"Bewitched" + "Charlie's Angels" - Charlie = "At Arm's Length" Read the 
webcomic at [ http://www.atarmslength.net ]! If you like "At Arm's Length", 
support it at [ http://www.patreon.com/DarkwingDude ]. 
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Message Tracer

[Craig Newman via use-livecode]

Message Watcher? AHA.

My one entry into the "bug” pollI was to complain about random crashes of LC 
itself now and then. Not likely to have that solved anytime soon.  But I am 
tempted to categorizes as a bug a sorely missing feature of the message watcher:

In the Forum 
"https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6=35496=207822=message+watcher#p207822
 
”

This missing feature oftentimes cripples the usefulness of the MW, and that 
ought to be thought of as a bug.

HA

Craig


> On Oct 28, 2021, at 1:17 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Yes, but the message watcher is way too verbose. I do not need every system 
> message, only the ones called by my own code, and I need to at least be able 
> to discern when procedures exit. 
> 
> My reason is that I have 15+ modules that all need to use  the publish and 
> subscribe method I am implementing, and it is a LOT easier to grok a summary 
> of handlers as in the format below to ensure I am standardizing things in all 
> the modules. 
> 
> I thought about using a common behavior, but each module has to subscribe to 
> only the messages it needs. The messages are almost all querys of a database 
> and populating of datagrids, which I am trying to synchronize throughout the 
> application without repeatedly querying the same data over and over again. To 
> simplify things, each module's subscriptions and the handlers they call are 
> located in the respective card script. Opening the card sets up the 
> subscriptions for that module, and closing the card clears them. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Oct 28, 2021, at 10:07 , J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Like LC's Message Watcher?
>> 
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> On October 28, 2021 11:28:34 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> Has anyone written something that will trace the flow of a command or 
>>> procedure and create some kind of rudimentary flow diagram? It can be text 
>>> based something like:
>>> 
>>> stack "Main Form"
>>> Openstack
>>> setSubscriptions
>>>  subGetMainData, getMainData
>>>  subSetMainGrids, setMainGrids
>>> broadcast subGetMainData
>>> broadcast subSetMainGrids
>>> 
>>> etc.
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Mudslinging and consequences - a change to our policy

[Craig Newman via use-livecode]

There are an infinite number of infinities, and many can be ordered in terms of 
their “size”. The problem is you need an infinite number of Alephs to talk 
about them all. The real question is can one talk about all those infinites in 
an Aleph null number of ticks?

Craig

> On Oct 28, 2021, at 1:21 PM, doc hawk via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> On Oct 28, 2021, at 9:47 AM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
>> 
>> The following article will really get your thinking about infinity:
> 
> I took my Set Theory from Halmos himself.  At the time, I knew he must be a 
> major figure, as there was an “with apologies to Halmos” in the introduction.
> 
> I just din’t realize *how* big until years later.
> 
> I mentioned it in a graduate math class (stochastic calculus), and the entire 
> room, including the professor, simply stopped and stared.
> 
> But the various infinities coming from him were one of the “drinking from a 
> firehose” experiences . . .
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

RE: Android .idsig file

[Ralph DiMola via use-livecode]

Interesting... If I make an APK I get the expected apk and the additional
.idsig But if I build an app bundle I get the expected .aab and an .apk as a
bonus?

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net

-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2021 4:02 PM
To: LiveCode Mailing List
Cc: J. Landman Gay
Subject: Android .idsig file

What's the purpose of the .idsig file when building an Android apk? I looked
it up and it's related to app signing but I'm not sure whether I need that
file for something later or not.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Android .idsig file

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

What's the purpose of the .idsig file when building an Android apk? I looked it up and it's 
related to app signing but I'm not sure whether I need that file for something later or not.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Mudslinging and consequences - a change to our policy

[doc hawk via use-livecode]

On Oct 28, 2021, at 9:47 AM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode 
 wrote:
> 
> The following article will really get your thinking about infinity:

I took my Set Theory from Halmos himself.  At the time, I knew he must be a 
major figure, as there was an “with apologies to Halmos” in the introduction.

I just din’t realize *how* big until years later.

I mentioned it in a graduate math class (stochastic calculus), and the entire 
room, including the professor, simply stopped and stared.

But the various infinities coming from him were one of the “drinking from a 
firehose” experiences . . .


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Message Tracer

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Yes, but the message watcher is way too verbose. I do not need every system 
message, only the ones called by my own code, and I need to at least be able to 
discern when procedures exit. 

My reason is that I have 15+ modules that all need to use  the publish and 
subscribe method I am implementing, and it is a LOT easier to grok a summary of 
handlers as in the format below to ensure I am standardizing things in all the 
modules. 

I thought about using a common behavior, but each module has to subscribe to 
only the messages it needs. The messages are almost all querys of a database 
and populating of datagrids, which I am trying to synchronize throughout the 
application without repeatedly querying the same data over and over again. To 
simplify things, each module's subscriptions and the handlers they call are 
located in the respective card script. Opening the card sets up the 
subscriptions for that module, and closing the card clears them. 

Bob S


> On Oct 28, 2021, at 10:07 , J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Like LC's Message Watcher?
> 
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On October 28, 2021 11:28:34 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
>> Has anyone written something that will trace the flow of a command or 
>> procedure and create some kind of rudimentary flow diagram? It can be text 
>> based something like:
>> 
>>  stack "Main Form"
>>  Openstack
>>  setSubscriptions
>>   subGetMainData, getMainData
>>   subSetMainGrids, setMainGrids
>>  broadcast subGetMainData
>>  broadcast subSetMainGrids
>> 
>> etc.
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Message Tracer

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

Like LC's Message Watcher?

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On October 28, 2021 11:28:34 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
 wrote:


Has anyone written something that will trace the flow of a command or 
procedure and create some kind of rudimentary flow diagram? It can be text 
based something like:


stack "Main Form"
Openstack
setSubscriptions
 subGetMainData, getMainData
 subSetMainGrids, setMainGrids
broadcast subGetMainData
broadcast subSetMainGrids

etc.

Bob S


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription preferences:

http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Message Tracer

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

I suppose I could use the procedure that keeps track of the execution contexts 
to create a logging method. Anyone know what and where that procedure is? 

Bob S


> On Oct 28, 2021, at 09:26 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Has anyone written something that will trace the flow of a command or 
> procedure and create some kind of rudimentary flow diagram? It can be text 
> based something like: 
> 
>   stack "Main Form"
>   Openstack 
>   setSubscriptions
>subGetMainData, getMainData 
>subSetMainGrids, setMainGrids
>   broadcast subGetMainData
>   broadcast subSetMainGrids
> 
> etc. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Mudslinging and consequences - a change to our policy

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

"As it turns out, the number of elements of this power set exceeds the number 
of elements in the set of natural numbers."

They have betrayed themselves. The number of anything cannot exceed infinity. 
Otherwise they are playing a shell game with what they mean by infinity. 

Bob S

> On Oct 28, 2021, at 09:47 , Rick Harrison via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Bob and Martin,
> 
> On a Mac the solution is to use the Option and 5 keys.  The result is:  ∞
> All you really had to do was G∞gle it!
> 
> I remember the math class discussions of a googol and a googolplex.
> 
> Then I recalled that some infinite sets are bigger than others.
> 
> The following article will really get your thinking about infinity:
> 
> https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-deep-math-dive-into-why-some-infinities-are-bigger-than-others/
>  
> 
> 
> Perhaps some forevers are longer than others?  ;-)
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Rick

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Mudslinging and consequences - a change to our policy

[Rick Harrison via use-livecode]

Hi Bob and Martin,

On a Mac the solution is to use the Option and 5 keys.  The result is:  ∞
All you really had to do was G∞gle it!

I remember the math class discussions of a googol and a googolplex.

Then I recalled that some infinite sets are bigger than others.

The following article will really get your thinking about infinity:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-deep-math-dive-into-why-some-infinities-are-bigger-than-others/
 


Perhaps some forevers are longer than others?  ;-)

Cheers,

Rick



> On Oct 28, 2021, at 6:34 AM, KOOB via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi
> 
> Here is what I do
> Rotate your keyboard 90 degrees
> Press the 8 key
> Rotate yours monitor 90 degrees
> Repeat
> It took me forever to figure that out. 
> 
> Martin Koob
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Oct 27, 2021, at 8:10 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I didn't know the keystroke for infinity.
>> 
>> Bob S
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Message Tracer

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Has anyone written something that will trace the flow of a command or procedure 
and create some kind of rudimentary flow diagram? It can be text based 
something like: 

stack "Main Form"
Openstack 
setSubscriptions
 subGetMainData, getMainData 
 subSetMainGrids, setMainGrids
broadcast subGetMainData
broadcast subSetMainGrids

etc. 

Bob S


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Mudslinging and consequences - a change to our policy

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

I'm not at all surprised it took you forever to figure out infinity.

I sent your solution to a friend. :) Brilliant.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On October 28, 2021 5:36:28 AM KOOB via use-livecode 
 wrote:



Hi

Here is what I do
Rotate your keyboard 90 degrees
Press the 8 key
Rotate yours monitor 90 degrees
Repeat
It took me forever to figure that out.

Martin Koob


Sent from my iPad

On Oct 27, 2021, at 8:10 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
 wrote:


I didn't know the keystroke for infinity.

Bob S

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription preferences:

http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Mudslinging and consequences - a change to our policy

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

I really do not have the time to contemplate infinity. 

Bob S


> On Oct 28, 2021, at 07:03 , Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Sorry that stupid joke from like 40+ years ago goes thru my head every time I 
> write a repeat loop or contemplate infinity…
> 
> Jeff

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: LC Bug Survey Metasurvey - Ranking Criteria

[Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode]

Heather:

> If you would like to purchase an Escrow license from us,
> please contact support

That's useful to know - I will remember it,
because a few clients do ask. Will direct any your way.

Back to this thread ... I was unprepared for it this month,
so it was a challenge to find, retest, and prioritize
my Top Ten LC bugs in a hurry.

I am currently automating everything I can, so next year
I'm likely to make a stack to track and rank my LC bugs.
Mainly with my own criteria, but I may include others.
Thus my interest! (Plus I just like criteria.)

Bugs are very important for different projects/clients,
and I should have my current top ten bugs ready 24/7.

Whether it's a survey, or a client concern, or whatever:
when an opportunity or problem comes up, just pull it out.
(I got caught flat-footed on this survey. Next time ready.)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
Christian LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Mudslinging and consequences - a change to our policy

[Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode]

Excellent Martin! My new view on infinity.

Reminds me of a joke the list may appreciate to clean off the mud.

Lady is found dead in the shower and is surrounded by dozens of empty shampoo 
bottles. Two detectives show up and the first one says “well this is certainly 
a very odd case”. The second detective replies “well no it’s pertly simple, the 
lady was a programmer”. The first detective says “how the can you say she’s a 
programmer with this evidence?”. The second detective says “It’s elementary, 
read the shampoo bottle instructions, Lather, Rinse, Repeat!” 

Sorry that stupid joke from like 40+ years ago goes thru my head every time I 
write a repeat loop or contemplate infinity…

Jeff

> On Oct 28, 2021, at 9:25 AM, use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com wrote:
> 
> Hi
> 
> Here is what I do
> Rotate your keyboard 90 degrees
> Press the 8 key
> Rotate yours monitor 90 degrees
> Repeat
> It took me forever to figure that out. 
> 
> Martin Koob


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: LC Bug Survey Metasurvey - Ranking Criteria

[Heather Laine via use-livecode]

Lagi,

If you would like to purchase an Escrow license from us, please contact 
support, supp...@livecode.com . We do offer them, 
they are not cheap.

This is not on topic for this thread. It is also a licensing question and not 
something the list can usefully comment on. The name of this list is "how to 
use LiveCode".

Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 28 Oct 2021, at 14:21, Eraklis Pittas via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I am going to throw a fly in the ointment here.
> 
> We have to ASSUME the BEST but plan for the WORST.
> 
> IF LC Ltd  could not carry on for any reason - anybody here will know the
> details
> 
> Is there an ESCROW for the Code, is there a Plan B - iis there some code
> where someone else
> will be able to setup a "local" activation server - just asking for a
> friend.
> 
> Lagi
> 
> On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 at 13:20, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> As you probably recall, back in The Day, we could bug vote. Sometimes I
>> miss The Day.
>> I considered the immeasurable harm I have done to keyboards, especially
>> mechanical ones. I loved some of those keyboards. They gave their lives for
>> some of those bugs.
>> I also considered the number of bottles of scotch and sake that were gifted
>> to me from employees who thought that "just a taste" would help me calm the
>> hell down.
>> So if I murdered a keyboard, but was consoled with a smooth nigori, the net
>> was 0 and the bug demoted on my list.
>> 
>> On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at 2:17 AM Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> I liked the Ranked-Top-Ten format of this latest LC Bug Survey.
>>> 
>>> Now I'm curious: not about WHICH bugs people submitted,
>>> but your CRITERIA for ranking them.
>>> 
>>> (I assume that's OK to discuss already at this point;
>>> not mentioning any specific bugs or areas/features of LC.)
>>> 
>>> For me, first I had a prerequisite:
>>> 
>>> 0. Still a reproducible bug in latest LC 965rc2.
>>> 
>>> (Because I didn't want to waste any of the ten slots
>>> with an open bug that's actually fixed.
>>> Found a few to retest and report if resolved.)
>>> 
>>> Then, I used three ranking criteria:
>>> 
>>> 1. Is there a good workaround?
>>> 2. Severity.
>>> 3. How many projects it affects.
>>> 
>>> (I weighted no-good-workaround highest,
>>> then eyeballed severity and scope equally.)
>>> 
>>> Wondering whether most people had criteria like this,
>>> or just went from the feel of it.
>>> 
>>> I would welcome encore future LC Top-Ten surveys!
>>> Maybe I'll make a Bug Ranker stack later to encourage it.
>>> 
>>> Best wishes,
>>> 
>>> Curry Kenworthy
>>> 
>>> Custom Software Development
>>> "Better Methods, Better Results"
>>> Christian LiveCode Training and Consulting
>>> http://livecodeconsulting.com/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>   and did a little diving.
>> And God said, "This is good."
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> KIndest Regards Lagi
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: LC Bug Survey Metasurvey - Ranking Criteria

[Eraklis Pittas via use-livecode]

I am going to throw a fly in the ointment here.

We have to ASSUME the BEST but plan for the WORST.

IF LC Ltd  could not carry on for any reason - anybody here will know the
details

Is there an ESCROW for the Code, is there a Plan B - iis there some code
where someone else
will be able to setup a "local" activation server - just asking for a
friend.

Lagi

On Thu, 28 Oct 2021 at 13:20, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> As you probably recall, back in The Day, we could bug vote. Sometimes I
> miss The Day.
> I considered the immeasurable harm I have done to keyboards, especially
> mechanical ones. I loved some of those keyboards. They gave their lives for
> some of those bugs.
> I also considered the number of bottles of scotch and sake that were gifted
> to me from employees who thought that "just a taste" would help me calm the
> hell down.
> So if I murdered a keyboard, but was consoled with a smooth nigori, the net
> was 0 and the bug demoted on my list.
>
> On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at 2:17 AM Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > I liked the Ranked-Top-Ten format of this latest LC Bug Survey.
> >
> > Now I'm curious: not about WHICH bugs people submitted,
> > but your CRITERIA for ranking them.
> >
> > (I assume that's OK to discuss already at this point;
> > not mentioning any specific bugs or areas/features of LC.)
> >
> > For me, first I had a prerequisite:
> >
> > 0. Still a reproducible bug in latest LC 965rc2.
> >
> > (Because I didn't want to waste any of the ten slots
> > with an open bug that's actually fixed.
> > Found a few to retest and report if resolved.)
> >
> > Then, I used three ranking criteria:
> >
> > 1. Is there a good workaround?
> > 2. Severity.
> > 3. How many projects it affects.
> >
> > (I weighted no-good-workaround highest,
> > then eyeballed severity and scope equally.)
> >
> > Wondering whether most people had criteria like this,
> > or just went from the feel of it.
> >
> > I would welcome encore future LC Top-Ten surveys!
> > Maybe I'll make a Bug Ranker stack later to encourage it.
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Curry Kenworthy
> >
> > Custom Software Development
> > "Better Methods, Better Results"
> > Christian LiveCode Training and Consulting
> > http://livecodeconsulting.com/
> >
> >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
KIndest Regards Lagi
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: LC Bug Survey Metasurvey - Ranking Criteria

[Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode]

Mike:

> So if I murdered a keyboard, but was consoled with a smooth nigori,
> the net was 0 and the bug demoted on my list.

That was headed for the "just went from the feel of it" column,
but on second thought: Effort/Frustration vs Compensation/Sympathy. :)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
Christian LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: LC Bug Survey Metasurvey - Ranking Criteria

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

As you probably recall, back in The Day, we could bug vote. Sometimes I
miss The Day.
I considered the immeasurable harm I have done to keyboards, especially
mechanical ones. I loved some of those keyboards. They gave their lives for
some of those bugs.
I also considered the number of bottles of scotch and sake that were gifted
to me from employees who thought that "just a taste" would help me calm the
hell down.
So if I murdered a keyboard, but was consoled with a smooth nigori, the net
was 0 and the bug demoted on my list.

On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at 2:17 AM Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> I liked the Ranked-Top-Ten format of this latest LC Bug Survey.
>
> Now I'm curious: not about WHICH bugs people submitted,
> but your CRITERIA for ranking them.
>
> (I assume that's OK to discuss already at this point;
> not mentioning any specific bugs or areas/features of LC.)
>
> For me, first I had a prerequisite:
>
> 0. Still a reproducible bug in latest LC 965rc2.
>
> (Because I didn't want to waste any of the ten slots
> with an open bug that's actually fixed.
> Found a few to retest and report if resolved.)
>
> Then, I used three ranking criteria:
>
> 1. Is there a good workaround?
> 2. Severity.
> 3. How many projects it affects.
>
> (I weighted no-good-workaround highest,
> then eyeballed severity and scope equally.)
>
> Wondering whether most people had criteria like this,
> or just went from the feel of it.
>
> I would welcome encore future LC Top-Ten surveys!
> Maybe I'll make a Bug Ranker stack later to encourage it.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Curry Kenworthy
>
> Custom Software Development
> "Better Methods, Better Results"
> Christian LiveCode Training and Consulting
> http://livecodeconsulting.com/
>
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Mudslinging and consequences - a change to our policy

[Richmond via use-livecode]

I fell off my chair laughing.

What a lovely post.

Richmond.

On 28.10.21 13:34, KOOB via use-livecode wrote:

Hi

Here is what I do
Rotate your keyboard 90 degrees
Press the 8 key
Rotate yours monitor 90 degrees
Repeat
It took me forever to figure that out.

Martin Koob


Sent from my iPad


On Oct 27, 2021, at 8:10 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
 wrote:

I didn't know the keystroke for infinity.

Bob S

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Mudslinging and consequences - a change to our policy

[Richmond via use-livecode]

I very much doubt whether anyone round these parts has ever doubted the 
integrity of the

people who work for LC Ltd.

But that should not blind one in other respects.

There have been consequences of the recent decision to drop support for
an Open Source version of LiveCode: some seemingly positive and some
seemingly negative, and all that will be borne out in good time.

There is also an large difference, as I attempted to point out, between
mud-slinging and a reasonable discussion about what these consequences
might be, how they might affect LC Ltd, the programming "thing" we all
know and love, and us as people who program computers.

My posting was precipitated by someone who did "sling mud" in a way
that would put most people off: and slang mud with no obvious
support or justification. I asked for clarification on several of those
"lumps of mud" (scriptEditor, dictionary, palettes) and go no
explanation back whatsoever: this makes me wonder how, without
any explanations that person expected those "lumps of mud" to stick,
and because of that, the whole exercise just looked like spite on their 
behalf.


"Thank heavens" does not seem as black-and-white as all that to all
people, and, Yes, a bit of self-examination re one's motivations is
quite healthy on occasion, but so it should be for LC Ltd. as well.

I have used LiveCode for something near to 20 years now, and as anyone who
is not daft knows, have had a "very odd" relationship with the people at
LC Ltd. How much of that is that I'm a "bit odd", how much of it is that 
they

are not geared up to cope with "odd" people like me, and so on and so forth
I really don't know. But I can say that they have always been very kind and
remarkably tolerant to some of my "odder oddnesses" all things
considered.

As anyone who is "rocking around" the Forums can see, at the moment, I am
attempting to contribute 'my bit' by showing how readily LiveCode can be
used to fulfill large parts of the English and Scottish computing curricula
( and, by extension, those of other countries), and I do hope, that after
some of the "dust" has settled . . .

Richmond.

On 28.10.21 13:20, Bernard Devlin via use-livecode wrote:

Thank heavens this policy change has finally come.  Baseless  accusations
can end up affecting perception. Surrounded by negative criticism one can
actually blame LC for defects that exist in oneself.  It has happened to
me, where I've tracked down the defect in my own work just before I was
going to write to the list and complain about a defect in LC. IMO the Forum
is even worse for this behaviour.  I think it's a product of the way Forum
software works.  People can search for something (not necessarily intending
any malice), and in their search uncover some past series of complaints,
and resurrect past complaints which again become the focus of the people
using the Forum.

That's not to say there are no defects. There's no software on the planet
that has no defects. I have had problems where I have been unable to
provide a recipe for a bug report. I simply couldn't detect a reproducible
pattern (and sometimes it appears no-one else has seen a particular
defect). But I understand the absolute necessity for a bug report to have a
reproducible recipe. In these cases I have to patient, committed and cast
my net of investigation further until I can find a reproducible pattern and
it might take weeks or months before a pattern emerges.

The one thing I've never doubted is the integrity of the people who work
for LC Ltd.

On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 1:00 PM Heather Laine via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:


Dear List Folks,

This list is intended for users to help each other in the use of LiveCode.
Sometimes LC staff get involved and help out here also. It can be a great
place to constructively discuss improvements. It is not a place to take
potshots at each other, at LiveCode or at LiveCode staff. In the future, if
a list member is perceived to be doing this by myself or by a reasonable
set of other list members, they will be banned.

For the avoidance of doubt, by taking potshots I mean:

Accusations of untruths, lying or lack of integrity
Persistently pointing out flaws in LiveCode without any positive
suggestions on resolution
Namecalling of any kind
General rudeness - please re-read your post before sending and check it
for tone

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. What everyone is not entitled to do
is express unfounded negative opinions about LiveCode and its staff on this
list, which is run by LiveCode, for LiveCode, and for the benefit of
LiveCode's users.

I trust I make myself clear. This warning will not be repeated.

Warmest Regards,

Heather


Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com




___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:

Re: Mudslinging and consequences - a change to our policy

[KOOB via use-livecode]

Hi

Here is what I do
Rotate your keyboard 90 degrees
Press the 8 key
Rotate yours monitor 90 degrees
Repeat
It took me forever to figure that out. 

Martin Koob


Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 27, 2021, at 8:10 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I didn't know the keystroke for infinity.
> 
> Bob S
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: [OT] M1 Mac Mini USB problems

[Bernard Devlin via use-livecode]

I use a USB KVM to switch keyboard, mouse, monitor between M1 Mac Mini and
a PC (the KVM is powered by USB even though it comes with an optional
separate power source).  If there was a general defectiveness in the Mac's
USB support, I'd expect it to appear in this kind of scenario (as I switch
dozens of times each day).  In more than 6 months of usage, I haven't seen
a single problem. Admittedly I haven't (yet) tried mounting an external USB
hard drive.

 A far more frequent problem for me is that the PC network adapter loses
its connection, even though the machine is connected by cable.

Regards, Bernard


On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 4:46 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I am having problems with my new 2020 Mac Mini's USB ports. The new time
> machine disk will only backup a gig or two before erroring out. Then the
> disk is then is not mountable. All sorts of errors when trying first aid or
> trying to mount it via first aid. Sent the disk back and the new one did
> the same thing. I can init it on the win 10 system and then the Mac Mini
> sees it again. I thought it was an unpowered USB-A hub issue. I then got
> the power supply for the hub and same thing. I bought an USB-C hub and
> again same thing. Plugged the Drive directly into the Mac Mini and same
> problems. My USB keyboard/mouse will not work reliably using either the
> USB-A or C hub. It seems that the Mac Mini's USB HW/SW is flakey.
>
> Has anyone else seen/heard anything like this?
>
> This is very annoying after dropping over a yard and a half on this thing
> to replace my perfectly running Mac Book Pro so I could upgrade to Big Sur.
>
>
>
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
>
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Mudslinging and consequences - a change to our policy

[Bernard Devlin via use-livecode]

Thank heavens this policy change has finally come.  Baseless  accusations
can end up affecting perception. Surrounded by negative criticism one can
actually blame LC for defects that exist in oneself.  It has happened to
me, where I've tracked down the defect in my own work just before I was
going to write to the list and complain about a defect in LC. IMO the Forum
is even worse for this behaviour.  I think it's a product of the way Forum
software works.  People can search for something (not necessarily intending
any malice), and in their search uncover some past series of complaints,
and resurrect past complaints which again become the focus of the people
using the Forum.

That's not to say there are no defects. There's no software on the planet
that has no defects. I have had problems where I have been unable to
provide a recipe for a bug report. I simply couldn't detect a reproducible
pattern (and sometimes it appears no-one else has seen a particular
defect). But I understand the absolute necessity for a bug report to have a
reproducible recipe. In these cases I have to patient, committed and cast
my net of investigation further until I can find a reproducible pattern and
it might take weeks or months before a pattern emerges.

The one thing I've never doubted is the integrity of the people who work
for LC Ltd.

On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 1:00 PM Heather Laine via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Dear List Folks,
>
> This list is intended for users to help each other in the use of LiveCode.
> Sometimes LC staff get involved and help out here also. It can be a great
> place to constructively discuss improvements. It is not a place to take
> potshots at each other, at LiveCode or at LiveCode staff. In the future, if
> a list member is perceived to be doing this by myself or by a reasonable
> set of other list members, they will be banned.
>
> For the avoidance of doubt, by taking potshots I mean:
>
> Accusations of untruths, lying or lack of integrity
> Persistently pointing out flaws in LiveCode without any positive
> suggestions on resolution
> Namecalling of any kind
> General rudeness - please re-read your post before sending and check it
> for tone
>
> Everyone is entitled to their opinion. What everyone is not entitled to do
> is express unfounded negative opinions about LiveCode and its staff on this
> list, which is run by LiveCode, for LiveCode, and for the benefit of
> LiveCode's users.
>
> I trust I make myself clear. This warning will not be repeated.
>
> Warmest Regards,
>
> Heather
>
>
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
>
>
>
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

LC Bug Survey Metasurvey - Ranking Criteria

[Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode]

I liked the Ranked-Top-Ten format of this latest LC Bug Survey.

Now I'm curious: not about WHICH bugs people submitted,
but your CRITERIA for ranking them.

(I assume that's OK to discuss already at this point;
not mentioning any specific bugs or areas/features of LC.)

For me, first I had a prerequisite:

0. Still a reproducible bug in latest LC 965rc2.

(Because I didn't want to waste any of the ten slots
with an open bug that's actually fixed.
Found a few to retest and report if resolved.)

Then, I used three ranking criteria:

1. Is there a good workaround?
2. Severity.
3. How many projects it affects.

(I weighted no-good-workaround highest,
then eyeballed severity and scope equally.)

Wondering whether most people had criteria like this,
or just went from the feel of it.

I would welcome encore future LC Top-Ten surveys!
Maybe I'll make a Bug Ranker stack later to encourage it.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
Christian LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode