Re: (somewhat) OT: Bill Atkinson on HC - but rather Vannevar Bush in July 1945
On Tue, 19 Jun 2018 14:42:49 + Bob Sneidar wrote: So we are all just a part of Bill's acid trip eh? Nice. Bob S On Jun 18, 2018, at 19:01 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: http://www.mondo2000.com/2018/06/18/the-inspiration-for-hypercard/ -- Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com I think the very first impulse to envision and later develop the internet, worldwide multimedia connections, and eventually x-talk languages like Hypercard etc. came from Vannevar Bush in July 1945 without the help of acid or other substances in his famous article in the Atlantic Magazine bearing the title "As We May Think" _<https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1945/07/as-we-may-think/303881/>_ <https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1945/07/as-we-may-think/303881/> From the introduction to his article: /As Director of the Office of Scientific Research and Development, Dr. Vannevar Bush has coordinated the activities of some six thousand leading American scientists in the application of science to warfare. In this significant article he holds up an incentive for scientists when the fighting has ceased. He urges that men of science should then turn to the massive task of making more accessible our bewildering store of knowledge. For years inventions have extended man's physical powers rather than the powers of his mind. Trip hammers that multiply the fists, microscopes that sharpen the eye, and engines of destruction and detection are new results, but not the end results, of modern science. Now, says Dr. Bush, instruments are at hand which, if properly developed, will give man access to and command over the inherited knowledge of the ages. The perfection of these pacific instruments should be the first objective of our scientists as they emerge from their war work. Like Emerson's famous address of 1837 on "The American Scholar," this paper by Dr. Bush calls for a new relationship between thinking man and the sum of our knowledge. — THE EDITOR/ Best regards, Wilhelm Sanke ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
USA TODAY: Check out this photo from August political cartoons from the USA TODAY Network
>From USA TODAY August political cartoons from the USA TODAY Network https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/9c3a4b42e9ab7aeae81e79b50e6eff1cf291b0a3/c=32-0-2969-2208/local/-/media/2017/08/29/USATODAY/USATODAY/636395658646117843-082917indyWebOnly-texas-flooding.jpg The cartoonist's homepage, indystar.com/opinion/varvel Von Samsung-Tablet gesendet ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Refer to new group?
Bug 8275 about "Groups: Bugs and features ("last group" broken)?"
submitted in 2009 is still pending.
Kind regards,
Wilhelm Sanke
*Bug 8275* <http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8275> -Groups:
Bugs and features ("last group" broken)?
*Status*: PENDING
*Version*: 4.0.0 DP4
*Platform*: All
*Reported*: 2009-09-16 12:45 BST by Wilhelm Sanke
*Modified*: 2016-04-07 15:04 BST
*CC List*: 3 users (show
<http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8275#>)
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Re: OT: Need better hardware vs need better software./ Sub-subject "HyperPad"
7On Tue, 2 Aug 2016 10:23:54 +0300 Richmond<richmondmathew...@gmail.com> wrote: Somewhere deep inside one of my backup disks I have a feeling there is a version of RunRev/LC for DOS . . . . There's certainly a version of Metacard. It might be "fun" to take it/them for a trot with FreeDOS. R. Hi Richmond, Somewhere in the depths of one of my computers I still have a copy of "HyperPad" (by Brightbill & Roberts), the first (and only?) Hypercard clone for DOS. I experimented with HyperPad for some time, used it among other authoring tools in a programming workshop at the Technical University of Madras, where I also presented as an example a stack about "Basic Hindi Grammar: Verbs". Of course it was not possible to attach Devanagari to this DOS-stack, but I later ported it to Metacard and Revolution. This stack and other Hindi-related stacks are still available from here, if you should be interested. HyperPad had a number of interesting features missing in Hypercard, Metacard, and still not having been added to LiveCode. On April 13, 2001, I had written to <metac...@lists.runrev.com>, subject: "Metacard anniversary": (snip) With x-talk languages I started with Hypercard and HyperPad, moved to Toolbook because of Windows, looked at Omo, worked with Supercard and Spinnaker's "Plus", and finally arrived at MetaCard. HyperPad appeared in 1989 and was - as far as I know - the first Hypercard clone for the DOS-world. It was in a number of aspects a very much improved clone of Hypercard. The big problem was that it was a pure DOS program and that Brightbill unfortunately never succeeded to produce a Windows version. HyperPad was dead by 1995. The first thing worth mentioning about HyperPad was its wonderful documentation, two volumes of nearly 400 pages each (a "User Guide" and the "PadTalk Reference") that left almost no questions open, partly because for each instance of the PadTalk language there were clear practical examples how to use the language in a given context. In the six years that HyperPad was supported by Brightbill I approached them about three times about issues I had difficulties with. HyperPad had a clear, organized user interface, could be easily connected to databases, and could be extended with "extensions" (simlar to xcmds and dlls) - which again was elaborated in the documentation. PadTalk contained a standard-deviation function - back in 1989 - a feature Scott included this month in Metacard 2.4. Two other "progressive" examples of the PadTalk language: - There was a "trim" function, very useful for creating educational software, that deleted leading and trailing spaces of user input. - "lines" and "items" had features different from other x-talk languages, including Metacard, e.g. the scriptline put "something" after last line of... would create a new line without having to add "CR&", putting something before or after an item would likewise create a new item without having to add ","&. This made scripting in many instances easier and comfortable. Of course, you could always put something on the same line by then adding " put something after last word (last item, last char) of line x", but the number of occasions where you have to create a new line or item are surely much more frequent than adding something on the same line. So far part of a nostalgic look back at HyperPad.-- To come back to the subject of this message: I support those that suggest approaches to broaden the basis of Metacard. The 10th anniversary of Metacard (is that correct?) would be one more reason for taking steps in that direction. Regards, Wilhelm Sanke --- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Performance speed of widgets (was: how to create a Custom Control)
On Wed, 27 Apr 2016, Richard Gaskin wrote: I think Kevin said best back in August in a discussion of when to choose LCS and LCB: (snip) Previously our primary choices were between LiveCode Script and a lower level language such as C. Now we have a third choice, an intermediate LiveCode Builder. Its much faster [to develop in] than C but slower than Script. It is going to excel at certain tasks. However we should always choose to use it only when it offers clear advantages above LiveCode Script for the project that outweigh the extra level of effort needed to use it. I know its very tempting having added a whole new language to build everything in that, but we must carefully resist that temptation and use it judiciously, only for what it is best at. <http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2015-August/217848.html> -- Richard Gaskin When Kevin states Its much faster [to develop in] than C but slower than Script. It is going to excel at certain tasks. What about the performance speed of a LCB widget? O.K., it is more difficult to *develop* the widget than a LCS-scripted custom control, but would a widget *execute* much faster than a group as a custom control? Would, for example, a matrix-convolve widget for image processing make up for the serious speed loss we are experiencing especially with LC versions 7.x and 8.x? Kind regards, Wilhelm Sanke --- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Design Challenge -- Round Corner mask on images
Another contribution to this thread from the past. and Stacks from 2009: The first one is a result of a longer discussion and experimentation with Bernd Niggemann showing different approaches to create and use masks, the second is a short example stack demonstrating round-corner-buttons whose labels can be dynamically changed by script during runtime. Kind regards, Wilhelm Sanke --- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Licensing questions again (was: Glen Bojsza "LC 8 hard question...")
While answering Matthias Rebbe Kevin Miller wrote on Tue, 01 Mar 2016 17:34:48: (snip) I?ve reviewed the thread between Heather and Wilhelm and I can see that no such withdrawal of rights after the fact has taken place. Wilhelm simply does not yet appear to fully understand the extensive explanation that Heather supplied. Perhaps we can improve the way we communicate these complexities in the future. This list is definitely not the place to discuss this. I?m sure Heather and Wilhelm will reach a point of understanding through normal channels. It is a rather simplistic and convenient way to assume that I "simply do not yet appear to fully understand" - and I think this needs to be commented here. Given the present state of the discussion, in which Support simply refuses to drop some untenable and unsustainable arguments, I still have the impression that indeed a "withdrawal of rights after the fact has taken place", like I have described it in my post. I could quote a number of statements here that definitely leave no room for any misunderstandings. I may take your "chiming in" as a positive note and an encouragement to try to "reach a point of understanding" and I hope you will second such attempts that could be beneficial for both sides. And we should have improved our ways to communicate already in the past. To that effect I had proposed to apply the principle of "intellectual honesty" in our discussions, which is a standard usually employed in academic or scientific discourses, but useful everywhere. Kind regards, Wilhelm Sanke --- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Licensing questions again (was: Glen Bojsza "LC 8 hard question...")
On Mon, 29 Feb 2016 11:40:41 -0500 Glen Bojsza<gboj...@gmail.com> wrote: To: How to use LiveCode<use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> After reviewing all the previous releases of Livecode I am trying to determine when LC 8 will start getting to RC and then how long from there to stable. My question is hard since there is no true and fast answer on how the development goes ...anything can cause it to derail. But does anybody think it is reasonable to get to a stable release by July this year? My license expires in August and I would hope with the amount of time that has passed and up to then that I would get a stable release of LC 8 before my license expires. Or I am expecting too much? regards, Glen You are surely not expecting too much. The question is, however, what kind of a license you own at the moment. It would not help you to get a stable release of LC 8 before your license expires in August, if it is not a "perpetual-style" one. If you bought your current license under the new subscription scheme you would have to buy a new license anyway to be able to produce closed-source stacks or apps. According to what Livecode-Support told me, licensing rules changed to "subscription style" in April 2013 during the Kickstarter campaign. This would mean - as a requirement to be able to use your present license past your expiration date in August - that you must have bought a Commercial license before April 2013 which was valid at the same time up to August 2016. I am in a somewhat similar situation. I possessed a (perpetual) Commercial license (August 2012 to August 2013) at the time of the Kickstarter campaign in 2013 which license was then "extended" for three years until August 2016 on account of my Kickstarter contributions. The Livecode CTO (Chief Technology Officer) wrote on Dec 14, 2015 (use-list: "licensing issues"): Up until the subscription model style license was introduced, the LiveCode Commercial License was perpetual per version. and on Dec 19, 2015: As your current (perpetual-style) license expires in August 2016, you have access to a perpetual version of all versions released (whether they be gm, rc or dp) up until that date. This view is not being supported by "Livecode Support". They claim that since the licensing scheme changed to "subscription" in April 2013, my perpetual license at that time was somehow affected and mutated to subscription style, too, as it were "on the fly". I was never informed about such a change during the Kickstarter campaign and I doubt that such a silent change could be legally justified. At present my personal Livecode account shows that I even own *two" Commercial licenses: - One - this must be my "perpetual" license - allows me to access LC versions 4.5.x to 6.1.0, and - the other is "valid for all versions until 15th August 2016", but is strangely restricted to all versions lower than LC 7.1.2 (seven-one-two) for downloads and offline activation files. We are discussing these issues at the moment. Kind regards, Wilhelm Sanke --- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Licensing Problems
d the sum of 534 which I paid for the Indy license running from August 2016 to August 2018. After the expiration of my original Commercial license valid until August 15, 2016, I will be using the Community versions. I do not exclude the possibility that I would be interested to purchase a new Indy license somewhere in the future, provided the quality and stability of the Livecode versions will have increased markedly. Kind regards, Wilhelm Sanke --- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Licensing issues [was: Re: LC 8 DP 11]
e severe restrictions on longtime and loyal supporters. Best regards, Wilhelm Sanke --- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: LC 8 DP 11
anisation in my post of Dec 12: It would be a good idea for the Livecode team to really begin an organized development process (following established rules and practices of professional software development) including with proper testing of old and new features before releasing new versions. You had answered: In the core dev team, we use our test lab to test every installer we release on a wide range of operating systems in various different configurations. I am aware that the situation has improved and understand that you really test new versions before releasing them and that overall Livecode development is much more organized now than a couple of years ago. I appreciate such changes very much, having specific test stacks ready and using them, but of course there is the question of the structure and functions of these test stacks and how and at what times they are being applied. Usable test stacks should be able to address foreseeable more complex constellations, e.g. not testing a stack with a few buttons, fields, images etc., but as an example with perhaps 500 buttons, 1000 fields, 100 groups, and a lot of internal data saved in custom properties etc. As an example, the severe slowdown of image processing speed from versions 4.6.1 though LC 8 (which I described in detail in various posts this year) apparently occurred totally unnoticed from the side of the Livecode team. So I think there is still some room and the necessity for improving the organisation of testing new and old features (that might be affected by new changes). Kind regards, Wilhelm Sanke --- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
LC 8 DP 11
Livecode 8 DP 11 apparently cannot be installed on Windows 7/ 32 . I tried an installation twice, both times the installation stopped (was not completed) after clicking the "Finish"-button, even after the first installation attempt I had deleted the previous DP 11 version from my machine. This never happened with the previous versions DP 1 through 10, although all kinds of crashes occurred with these prior LC 8 versions along with a lot of strange behaviors - apparently caused by newly introduced bugs. It would be a good idea for the Livecode team to really begin an organized development process (following established rules and practices of professional software development) including with proper testing of old and new features before releasing new versions. Kind regards (almost still believing in Livecode), Wilhelm Sanke --- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Livecode Licence Rules for dummies ....
Monte Goulding monte at appisle.net Sun Nov 15 21:05:46 CET 2015 wrote: > On 15 Nov 2015, at 11:12 pm, sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de wrote: > The URL <http://livecode.com/lock-in-your-price>> led to the Cleverbridge website <https://www.cleverbridge.com <https://www.cleverbridge.com/>> where an additional VAT sum was added to the price of $499, which was not mentioned by Kevin and which I overlooked initially when accepting Kevin's proposal. > > I am also informed on my personal Livecode account that a fixed VAT sum (stipulated on the basis of the dollar-euro exchange rate of July 2015) will be charged each year if I prolong the subscription after 2018.- We would all rather pay no tax. I’m unsure how the VAT works but with Australia’s GST you can claim the full amount back on business expenses. How exactly did you expect Kevin to know what tax rules apply to you until you had entered your details at the point of sale? Cheers You are certainly right about the VAT. But that was only a side issue and not the main point of my post. The important part was this: Due to my kickstarter contribution I have got a commercial licence that is valid up to August 2016. Legally that would mean IMHO that I am entitled to develop and distribute software under the conditions of this license, particularly - to use any commercial-like Livecode version released until August 2016 *forever* and without any restrictions to the possible revenue from sales and not subject to the new subscription scheme, in case I use the latest available Livecode version of August 2016. Regrettably the license rules have changed now and the changes - in my limited perspective - were not fully transparent to me. I would think that of the two present "near-commercial" licenses only the "business" version would be fully equivalent to the conditions of my own present licence valid up to August 2016. Best regards, Wilhelm Sanke --- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Livecode Licence Rules for dummies ....
Richard Gaskin ambassador at fourthworld.com <mailto:use-livecode%40lists.runrev.com?Subject=Re%3A%20Livecode%20Licence%20Rules%20for%20dummies%20=%3C564763C1.3060702%40fourthworld.com%3E> wrote on Sat Nov 14, 2015: Francis Nugent Dixon wrote: >/I can’t understand your licence rules, especially as they have been much />/modified since I BOUGHT 5.5 quite some time ago. / The license that accompanied your software is the only one that governs the software you received. Any changes to the license for later versions only affect the versions shipped with that license. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web Ambassador at FourthWorld.com <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode> http://www.FourthWorld.com There are complexer cases that are not fully covered by Richard's definition. Due to my kickstarter contribution I have got a commercial licence that is valid up to August 2016. Legally that would mean IMHO that I am entitled to develop and distribute software under the conditions of this license, particularly - to use any commercial-like Livecode version released until August 2016 *forever* and without any restrictions to the possible revenue from sales and not subject to the new subscription scheme, in case I use the latest available Livecode version of August 2016. Regrettably the license rules have changed now and the changes - in my limited perspective - were not fully transparent to me. I would think that of the two present "near-commercial" licenses only the "business" version would be fully equivalent to the conditions of my own present licence valid up to August 2016. Unfortunately I have been lured to subscribe to the Indy-license thereby extending my present license from August 2016 to August 2018. Kevin Miller (on July 2 and repeatedly later on) had invited me in a personal post: What Can You Do With Indie? Launch a startup Win competitions Build an app that can change the world Teach kids to code Teach university students and beginners to code Develop interactive educational apps Launch ebooks Launch apps ...The List Goes On! What Will You Do With Indie? You tell us! We can't wait to see your name on the LiveCode Stories page. Here's what's up: The price of an Indie License is going up and we don't want it to affect you. $499 will get you an Indie License for 2 years and it will keep you at the low price of $299/year forever after that. Whatever you do with Indie, make sure you get it at the right price. You can lock that price in now: http://livecode.com/lock-in-your-price There was no mention that you had to continue a "subscription" after the added two years to be able to produce and sell Livecode-built software and that with "Indy" there would be a revenue limit. I discovered that only later when looking up my personal Livecode account. The URL led to the Cleverbridge website <https://www.cleverbridge.com> where an additional VAT sum was added to the price of $499, which was not mentioned by Kevin and which I overlooked initially when accepting Kevin's proposal. I am also informed on my personal Livecode account that a fixed VAT sum (stipulated on the basis of the dollar-euro exchange rate of July 2015) will be charged each year if I prolong the subscription after 2018.- These changes could have been handled in a more transparent way by Livecode. I am considering to revoke my added subscription of Livecode for August 2016 - August 2018 in case an acceptable solution how to use my present commercial license with its conditions - valid up to August 2016 - cannot be found. I hope that until August 2016 Livecode will come up with a usable and stable version that allows me to work in my special fields of interest, a version without regressions and bugs that I then can use *forever* under the terms of my present commercial license. Kind regards, Wilhelm Sanke Emeritus Professor, University of Kassel, Germany --- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Release 8.0 DP 5
Thu Sep 24 05:31:42 CEST 2015 Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net wrote: No kidding. It's rare that a subsequent release is worse than a previous one, but this is completely unusable for me on linux. For specific features of Livecode - as in the case of imagedata processing - such deterioration is not rare, but seems to be the standard in the development process. I suppose this is surely not intended, but rather a result of concentrating on more urgent features (not only from the perspective of the team) and thereby possibly neglecting the interrelatedness of newly added functions with existing ones. As Richard Gaskin recently aptly remarked, image processing is at present not a "sweet spot" in Livecode development. I have described this in several of my recent posts, showing the continuing speed loss (and more severe side effects) from version LC 4.6 through LC 7. Depending on the complexity of the various scripts, image processing compared between 4.6 and 7 can be on the average 3 to 15 times slower. LC 8 again adds another 10 to 20 percent to the poor performance of LC 7. As a tolerable performance standard happened to exist in former versions of Livecode, it must be technically feasible to revert to at least such a standard (LC 4.6) without the need of extra funding in the new "Feature Exchange" program. For the Feature Exchange program I could think of improvements like to add Lua-functionality to Livecode image processing and the ability to use Photoshop-compatible filters. Thierry Douez has experimented with Lua externals (for Windows and Mac) as far back as 2010. Wilhelm Sanke --- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: last control
use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com schrieb: I filed a bug report: http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15763 Peter -- Dr Peter Brett peter.br...@livecode.com LiveCode Engine Development Team and dunb...@aol.com wrote: Message: 14 Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 13:13:38 -0400 From:dunb...@aol.com To:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Subject: Re: last control This may have something to do with the fact that the last keyword does not work with groups. I left a note in the dictionary about this years ago. Anyone think that issue might connect to this one? Craig Newman It could indeed be the case that these issues are related. In September 2009 - 6 years ago - I filed a bug report Bug 8275 - Groups: Bugs and features (last group broken)? that as of today has not yet been resolved and is still listed as pending. These and other problems IMHO belong to the substantial number of issues in Revolution/Livecode that are somewhat fundamental to the functionality of Livecode, but unfortunately never caught the real attention of the developer team. One can speculate about the reasons for this , e.g. whether it is a result of a very creative-spontaneous (but less organized) development strategy or even a certain disregard (or lack of knowledge) of established procedures in software development - that would have been easily accessible, but maybe were not accessed and consulted because of a certain lack of manpower. One of the basic procedures of organized software development is the application of power testing of newly introduced features, meaning that new features should be tested with test stacks under extreme conditions. I remember Kevin stating - about 10 years ago - that such test stacks could constitute a valuable tool for development, meaning that at that time such test stacks were not used - and I am really unsure if such development procedures are the state of the art implemented now in Livecode. Best regards, Wilhelm Sanke --- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: How do you handle the poor performance of LC 7?
. It was difficult to find out the common cause for these ultra-slow scripts. At least one of the causes for the ultra-slow speed is that these scripts used two sets of imagedata in variables idata and idata2, because - when relocating pixels in an image - sometimes the area of the source pixels overlaps with that of the target pixels. This can for example happen when you wish to combine two images (superimposing or partly overlapping) or when you turn a rect inside an image for 90 degrees. In the sample script above no such overlapping of source and target pixels occurs, but we can simulate this effect nevertheless by creating two sets of imagedata adding the line put idata into idata2 to the script and then changing the core part of the sample script to put char (ti + (j*4+2)) of idata2 into char (ti + ((j-DiffJ)*4 +2)) of idata put char (ti + (j*4+3)) of idata2 into char (ti + ((j-DiffJ)*4 +3)) of idata put char (ti + (j*4+4)) of idata2 into char (ti + ((j-DiffJ)*4 +4)) of idata. Results of these changes in LC 7.0.4: 320x240480x360512x384 640x480 chars 25168 163495 216116 576434 bytes 14071641 1793 2003 The results for the byte-version put byte (ti + (j*4+2)) of idata2 into byte (ti + ((j-DiffJ)*4 +2)) of idata etc. remained the same as for the script using only one set of imagedata. Under MC 4.6.1 there is likewise no difference between using one or two sets of imagedata both for char and byte-scripts. Speed of the two-set imagedata script in LC 7.0.4 for an image size of 640x480 is with 576434 milliseconds 1902 times slower than with the same script under MC 4,6,1, which needs only 303 milliseconds. I know that there are alternatives for instance using arrays, and I haved tested them, but they are not necessarily faster in all cases. Best regards, Wilöhelm Sanke --- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft. http://www.avast.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Is there a way to find a lighter and darker shade of a RGB color programmatically?
On Wed Feb, 2012, Keith (Gulf Breeze Ortho Lab) keith at gulfbreezeortholab.com wrote: Hi All, I have a problem... If a user selects a color and I put it into a variable (as RGB), how can I find a shade that is several shades lighter, and a shade that is several shades darker, also in RGB format? For example, I put 0,255,64 into myVar. (This color a shade of green.) Programmatically, how can I find a shade that is several shades lighter in green and a shade that is several shades darker in green from this base color? (By the way... Is there a way in LiveCode to determine the hue of a color and change the value?) Any help would be most appreciated... Thanks! - Boo The revcolorchooser stack (in folder Toolsets) contains the old conversion scripts of Scott Raney function RGBtoHSV r, g, b and - the other way round - function HSVtoRGB h, s, v (in group HSV). Convert you RGB color to HSV and to darken or brighten, just change the V-value. For changing the hue values, use H. Then convert your values back to RGB. These procedures work rather slowly when you work with whole images and not a single color. A much faster solution is using Quasimondo RGB-to-HSL and HSL-to-RGB conversions http://quasimondo.com/ and article Converting RGB to HSL differently. For brightening and darkening use the luminance value L. Finally you could use my brighten/darken button of my old Imagedata Toolkit http://www.sanke.org/software/ImagedataToolkitPreview3.zip Best regards, Wilhelm Sanke ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Seamless Tiles 2 stack updated
Just uploaded a slightly updated version of the Seamless Tiles Generator 2 to http://www.sanke.org/Software/SeamlessTiles2.zip See the descriptions on page Sample Stacks on my website http://www.sanke.org/MetaMedia. Among other things this stack features an improved resizable and draggable selection graphic that lets you choose a segment of any size from the imported source image to create a seamless tile. The ink of the selection graphic needed to be adapted both to the differences between Windows and MacOS and the stackfileversions 2.4 and 2.7. With engine versions 2.7 we need admin for MacOS and srcAnd for Windows. For engine versions 2.7 and higher srccopy is necessary for both platforms to show a transparent graphic. Moreover, I have changed the stack extension from *.mc to *.rev, to enable users of Rev 3.0 to see and load the stack. See the quote of my earlier post (to the Metacard- and Improve-lists) concerning this special problem: Strange change of file associations with Rev 3-gm-3 engine Wilhelm Sanke Sat, 20 Sep 2008 11:59:50 -0700 Rev engine 3-gm-2 displays both *.rev and *.mc-files in the open stack dialog as Revolution stacks. Engine 3-gm-3 restricts the displayed stacks to files with the *.rev extension; even when you choose All files the display of mc-files is suppressed, but other files like dlls and txt files are shown. It is even impossible to enforce the display of mc-files by typing *.mc into the file name box of the open stack dialog. Putting the Revolution.exe engine 3-gm-3 into the Metacard IDE shows the same restrictions: No mc-files are displayed. However, when you rename Revolution.exe to MC.exe, both Revolution stack-files rev and mc are displayed in the open stack dialog - like before in gm-2 with Revolution.exe. This holds for both IDEs, the Revolution and the Metacard IDE. The consequence for users that primarily work with the Rev IDE - but wish to access Metacard files once in a while - would be to rename their Rev engine to MC.exe. This works fine within the Rev IDE. Regards, Wilhelm Sanke ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
[ANN] More about masks (+ sample stack)
preliminary level, this serves only to indicate one of further possibilities of using masked images.-- Best regards, Wilhelm Sanke http://www.sanke.org/MetaMedia ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Location of dialog box
On Fri, Nov 18 , 2011, James Hurley jhurley0305 at sbcglobal.net wrote: Ken and Malte, Thanks for the suggestions. Malte--Your suggestion works well. Thanks. As you say it is a bit of a hack. Ken--I was referring to the stack that opens in response to the RR Answer command. Is it possible to set a preopencard handler in that stack? But using a modal stack as you suggest, I can roll my own answer dialogue. This would give me more flexibility. I assume many others take this route. Thanks, again, Jim Hurley I might remind you - and especially Ken as the present chief of the Metacard group - that we have long implemented such a feature for the ask and answer dialogs in the alternative Metacard IDE, following a proposal from my side several years ago. At the end of the preopenstack handler of the dialog stack (in the card script) we have added two lines of code: if the NewLoc of this stack is not empty then set the loc of this stack to the NewLoc of this stack set the NewLoc of this stack to empty In the script calling the dialog you have just first to set the Newloc: set the newloc of stack answer dialog to x,y or use globalloc alternatively. The second line of code above set the NewLoc of this stack to empty makes sure the dialog will pop up at the normal loc when no Newloc has been set before calling the dialog. This approach is so simple! I have always wondered why the Livecode guys did not include such a simple solution in the Livecode IDE, too.-- These two line of extra code could of course be added to the revanswerdialog etc., too, but then, when you distribute a non-standalone stack, without prior including the answer dialog as a substack, it will not work with the Livecode IDE of another user. On the other side, with an answer dialog embedded as a substack you might run into troubles, because the Livecode IDE is very special with double stacks and might throw an error (Did not test this with the last version). Best regards, Wilhelm Sanke ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Location of dialog box
Addendum to my last post in this thread: I have used this approach for dialog stacks with the added newloc property in many of my stacks, e.g. look at the scripts of buttons Store image 1 and Store image 2 in my stack seamless tiles. http://www.sanke.org/Software/SeamlessTiles2.zip This stack contains the Metacard answer dialog as a substack, and works fine in the Livecode IDE, too (tested with version 4.6.4). Regards, Wilhelm SDanke ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: color histogram?
On Fri Jul 8, 2011, Jim Ault jimaultwins at yahoo.com wrote: On Jul 7, 2011, at 11:08 PM, Chipp Walters wrote: Hey guys, I'm building another education app for a state school system, and this time I'm creating a skinnable themed desktop, which kids can add their own wallpaper to. I'm wondering if anyone has a quick routine to calculate the 'main' colors of an image-- so I could automatically theme the button colors and some other objects. If not, I'll have to write my own. Thx. You could take a look at Wilhem Sanke's ImageData Toolkit at http://www.sanke.org/MetaMedia/Samples.htm and here is a blast from the past you might appreciate Chipp http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/ANN-quot-Imagedata-Toolkit-2-quot-released-td349536.html Hope this helps. Jim Ault Las Vegas and Chipp Walters chipp at chipp.com answered: Thanks Jim. That is a blast from the past. In fact, I'm pretty sure I wrote the first convolve matrix which Wilhelm used for his earlier work. I wrote it to create blurred shadows for ButtonGaget and to help with some image compositing. I suspect I'll have to write my own imagedata parser and do the necessary math. It takes time... ;-( Hello Chipp, You know that I have mentioned you as the author of the first convolve matrix fully scripted in Metacard/Revolution time and again at various places. For example, I refer to you in the script of button scripted version in my stack Imagedata Toolkit Preview 3 http://www.sanke.org/Software/ImagedataToolkitPreview3.zip, and - as another example - I have given a detailed description of the transition steps from your original script to a speed-optimized version I use today (to which Mark Waddingham also contributed) even a few weeks ago in my post Blurred vision of Rev Newsletter, Apr 21 to this list on April 26, 2011. Concerning your question how to calculate the 'main' colors of an image-- so I could automatically theme the button colors and some other objects with the help of a histogram I am not exactly sure what you intend to do, Are you looking for one or several main colors of an image to use with your buttons and other objects? And how to you intend to proceed from the various possible representations of a color histogram (for each of the RGB values, for the gray or even the hue values in HSV) to get one or several main colors? A general recipe to create histograms can be found in Wikipedia under items image histogram and color histogram. Maybe you could also use the free Gimp program and use the histogram data of an image from there? To write your own histogram tool should be relatively easy in principle: - Get the RGB values of each pixel of an image (or a selected area of an image). - count the number of occurences for each color of the RGB triple and for each value 0 to 255 - show the accumulated numbers for each value category 0 to 255 in a chart. Thus you can get separate histograms for each of the three RGB colors or one for the gray values when you average the RGB values before. To find one single main color of an image, you could sum up all values for the three components R, G, and B separately and calculate the average for each component. Another approach would be to get the hue values of the image pixels using Scott Raney's RGBtoHSV function to be found in the Metacard Color Chooser and Livecode's revcolorchooser stacks (the latter of which is no longer actively used in the Livecode IDE, but has remained in the Toolset folder). Raney's function unfortunately is very slow when it comes to calculate all pixels of a medium-sized image, I prefer faster RGBtoHSL and HSLtoRGB functions that I have ported to Livecode from examples found in the net. I have so far not had a reason to use color histograms in my different image-processing stacks, but experimented with a number of other routines to set general parameters of images like white balance, mid balance, black balance, gamma correction, dynamic range, saturation, set chroma, brighten/darken, contrast, shift hues etc. etc.- I take it that most of the things I mentioned in this context here are certainly not new to you, but if you could be a bit more specific about what you intend to achieve I could possibly also come up with an idea or two. Best regards, Wilhelm Sanke ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: group name persisting
On Wed, 22 Jun 2011, Nicolas Cueto nicon...@gmail.com wrote: Hi. I use the group command to group three groups, rename that new group to gpABC, do some stuff to it, and then ungroup it. Oddly, if immediately afterwards I regroup the same three groups, the new group gets named gpABC instead of being automatically assigned an I'd number as happened the first time around. I've noticed this behaviour in the past, but this time it's getting in the way of things. How can I make sure this doesn't happen? Thanks. -- Nicolas Cueto (iPhone) Hi Nicolas, The possibly related bug # 8275 Groups and features (last group broken?), filed in September 2009, is still shown as pending and blocker. Malte's solution to reset the templategroup might indeed help, but it is otherwise inconvenient when you have to group and ungroup image parts several times in sequence - as is for instance necessary in my Kaleidoscope Tools. Groups are a very special case in Livecode. I am waiting for a number of group bugs to be fixed since some time. It would be nice when the Livecode team could finally address and fix such basic features. Best regards, Wilhelm Sanke ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Discussing image filters for Livecode (was: Blurred vision ...)
). The best way to remove fine detail texture or noise is to use a median/despeckle filter, this is what the name stands for. You can try out that for yourself: - Use add noise from the noise button, then apply the Rev blur filter. You will see that some pixels may be removed, but on the whole the noise pixels are just blurred like all other pixels. - Now again add noise to a new or reset image, then apply simple despeckle. Now the added noise will have been completely removed, despite the fact that the simple despeckle filter works on the basis of a rect of only 2x2 pixels of which the median value is then set. The main thing with such an assortment of filters is to experiment, to try to produce various effects, and possibly, too, to modify the scripts of the filter buttons to create new ones. Enjoy, in case you are interested. Kind regards, Wilhelm Sanke ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Blurred vision of Rev newsletter, Apr 21
First there is a minor confusion about numbers: The subject of the post I received reads [109] Summer Academy; Flying to San Jose, when I open it I see revUp issue 108. Be that as it may, what I want to comment on is the article Vision: Blur by Hanson Schmidt-Cornelius in that newsletter. Hanson presents a series of scripts that are related to each other to achieve a blur filter effect using sort of a 3x3-convolve matrix. I want to add some information and discuss the issue in a somewhat broader context. As Hanson did not himself supply a sample stack, I produced one that contains his scripts along with a number of alternative blur scripts and apart from that added some other filters which might be interesting for Livecode users that intend to look at image processing. You can get the stack here: http://www.sanke.org/Software/BlurredVision.zip. I also recommend - for those who like to experiment with image processing - my older stacks -http://www.sanke.org/Software/ImagedataToolkitPreview3.zip and - http://www.sanke.org/Software/SeamlessTiles2.zip Last, but not least, you should download Chipp Walters' stack of 2002 altConvolve2.rev from here http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/Downloads.htm to get the historical perspective. Chipp Walters has indeed been the first Metacard/Revolution user to develop a scripted version of a 3x3 matrix filter in his sample stack altConvolve2.rev of 2002 His aim was to demonstrate that imagedata could be managed effectively even without the help of an external. Chipp had bundled his stack with an external by Scott Raney to let you compare whether the 3x3-convolve matrices, with and without an external, produce the same results. Unfortunately, from Metacard version 2.4.2 on the sequence of the 4 imagedata chars of an image pixel had been altered, and Scott's older external now produced images with a strong yellow tint. Apart from that disadvantage, using the external was about 500 times faster than Chipp's no-external script. I have later used Derek Bump's convolve.dll external that is tuned to the newer color sequence, but - like Scott's external - is available only for Windows. Derek's external is included in my distribution of my Imagedata Toolkit (see URL above). Lately I had the opportunity to test prototypes of Lua-externals (Mac and Windows) for Revolution/Livecode. Performance - speed - of all these externals are at least 60 times faster than any even speed-optimized scripted-only filter versions, on the average these externals are about 100 times faster. For Chipp, Speed of execution was not a consideration for him at that time - and not necessary, as he used very small images in his sample stack. He mainly wanted to show that matrix filters could be natively scripted in Metacard/Revolution To be able to use the convolve matrix with larger images, I made a number of changes to Chipp's original script, abandoning among other things the use of arrays in this context or the round function which speeded up the performance of the filter by a factor of 10.8, only 3328 milliseconds instead of formerly 36008 ms for an image sized 640x480 (WindowsXP, 2.8 GHz machine, using the Metacard IDE. Performance with the Rev/Livecode IDE is about another 5 seconds slower) Another improvement was introduced by Mark Waddingham, who recommended taking the assignment of matrix values away from inside the repeat loop (put 0 + item 1 of convArray into tA1 etc.) - an overlooked, but really obvious way to do this - which speeded up performance by another 30% and brought down the total execution speed to 2308 milliseconds - measured with the same image and filter values (performance here will differ slightly with the specific structure of an image and with different filter matrix values). In my Imagedata Toolkit stack you find such optimized natively-scripted matrix filters, as also in Seamless Tiles, along with about matrix 100 filter examples of very different kinds, i.e. not only blur filters. In my new sample stack Blurred Vision I have now put together 7 different blur filters for comparison. You find Hanson's blur script (presented in the newsletter of April 21) in button Rev-blur and the stack script. Speed of his blur filter is 32 seconds in the Rev IDE and 28 in the MC IDE; when compiled as a Rev standalone performance is like in the Metacard IDE (configurations as described above). The optimized Walters/Sanke/Waddingham version of the scripted 3x3-matrix filter in contained in button matrix blur 3x3. Execution speed is presently 2281 milliseconds, based on a test I just made. This raises the question why Hanson's scripts are so much slower - 12 times - than matrix blur 3x3? I did not yet find time for a detailed analysis, but I believe that - even given the special structue of the related scripts - the performance could certainly be improved. One recommendation would be *not* to use
