Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[PystCat]

"Use the Force, Harry."
 --Gandalf

> On Jul 7, 2016, at 1:24 PM, Peter M. Brigham  wrote:
> 
>> On Jul 7, 2016, at 5:11 AM, Richmond wrote:
>> 
>> It is amazing how many "wise" sayings are attributed to many "Wise" people: 
>> Voltaire and Einstein included. This, I believe, is a human tendency to seek 
>> authority to their ideas by ascribing them to authority figures: like 
>> religious (and 'religious') people ascribing everything wise to their 
>> scripture.
> 
> The trouble with quotes on the internet is that sometimes they are attributed 
> to the wrong people. -- Benjamin Franklin
> 
> -- Peter
> 
> Peter M. Brigham
> pmb...@gmail.com
> 
> 
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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Richmond]

Personally I always ascribe everything to my Grandfather for a number of 
very good reasons:


1. He was a highly skilled surgeon of impeccable reputation, and read 
for pleasure

in both Latin and Classical Greek.

2. He never wrote down anything except medical papers.

3. He died in 1975.

4. I love his memory still.

There's absolutely no way of checking; so that's got to be good.

R.

On 7.07.2016 20:24, Peter M. Brigham wrote:

On Jul 7, 2016, at 5:11 AM, Richmond wrote:


It is amazing how many "wise" sayings are attributed to many "Wise" people: 
Voltaire and Einstein included. This, I believe, is a human tendency to seek authority to their 
ideas by ascribing them to authority figures: like religious (and 'religious') people ascribing 
everything wise to their scripture.

The trouble with quotes on the internet is that sometimes they are attributed 
to the wrong people. -- Benjamin Franklin

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com


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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Peter M. Brigham]

On Jul 7, 2016, at 5:11 AM, Richmond wrote:

> It is amazing how many "wise" sayings are attributed to many "Wise" people: 
> Voltaire and Einstein included. This, I believe, is a human tendency to seek 
> authority to their ideas by ascribing them to authority figures: like 
> religious (and 'religious') people ascribing everything wise to their 
> scripture.

The trouble with quotes on the internet is that sometimes they are attributed 
to the wrong people. -- Benjamin Franklin

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com


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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Jacques Clavel]

I don't know if Einstein was a genius or not, but if I had a quarter of the
genius of Einstein, Ill be very, very, very happy :-))

2016-07-07 15:45 GMT+02:00 Lagi Pittas :

> If we are going to bring up einstein , he is the "scientist"  I think who
> everybody defers to and yet he was basically a 100% fraud and a plagiarist.
>
> His equation  was publshed by the italian physicist De pretto and many
> others.
>
> While I was making sure I remembered my facts I found this - and other than
> a couple of new ones on me (Isaac Newton and Preston - all the others I had
> heard of)
>
>
> https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/einstein-did-not-derive-e-mc2-first.28362/
>
> But he missed out Lorentz so I found this:
>
>
> naturalphilosophy.org/site/harryricker/2015/05/23/the-origin-of-the-equation-e-mc2/
>
> One thing to not is that Poincare sent einstein a lecture he was going to
> give a few days before eistein publish his paper (using Poincare's paper -
> with no acknowledgement)  in face His papers had
> no footnots, credits or anything and it was still published.
>
> Now here is the kicker Eienstein (the Genius ) didn't get his Nobel
> prize in 1906 or 1907 but in 1921 and not for the theory of relativity but
> for
>
>  "for his services to Theoretical Physics, and especially for his discovery
> of the law of the photoelectric effect".
>
> Why? because although many of the people who knew he was a fraud had died -
> there where still people alive who knew the truth so they could't bring
> themselves to give it to him for
> "the greatest equation ever".
> )
> Some years  before he died he admitted that the equation stemmed from
> Maxwells equations (a true Genius if ever there was one, up their with R.P.
> Feynman  Feynman and Nikola Tesla)
>
> |I know this is off topic but I have known about thus liar and fraud for so
> may years.  When we say he's an Einstein we should be saying he's a TESLA.
>
> Einsteins wife  Mileva was probably the brains read about his philandering
> and payment to here to keep quiet.
>
> In Walter Isaacson's biography we get a list of the conditions he gave to
> Mileva
>
> *A. You will make sure:*
>
> *1. that my clothes and laundry are kept in good order;*
> *2. that I will receive my three meals regularly in my room;*
> *3. that my bedroom and study are kept neat, and especially that my desk is
> left for my use only.*
>
> *B. You will renounce all personal relations with me insofar as they are
> not completely necessary for social reasons. Specifically, You will
> forego:*
>
> *1. my sitting at home with you;*
> *2. my going out or travelling with you.*
>
> *C. You will obey the following points in your relations with me:*
>
> *1. you will not expect any intimacy from me, nor will you reproach me in
> any way;*
> *2. you will stop talking to me if I request it;*
> *3. you will leave my bedroom or study immediately without protest if I
> request it.*
>
> *D. You will undertake not to belittle me in front of our children, either
> through words or behavior.*
>
>
>
> *
> http://www.openculture.com/2013/12/albert-einstein-imposes-on-his-first-wife-a-cruel-list-of-marital-demands.html
> <
> http://www.openculture.com/2013/12/albert-einstein-imposes-on-his-first-wife-a-cruel-list-of-marital-demands.html
> >*
>
>
> But Isaacson still drinks the coolaid of Einstein as a genius.
>
> One thing to note all other papers he ever wrote where with others -
> (probably totally written by the other) but using Einsteins name to add
> gravitas to the paper.
>
> I have not seen one quote attributed to Einstein that somebody else had not
> said before, but  the one we are talking about here
>
> https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Rita_Mae_Brown
>
> Before I finish
>
> Here is where I check if a quote is attributable to someone. I found it
> years ago when I got so pissed off with yes you read my mind all these
>  quotes from the Genius Einstein that I knew where either Voltaire, Twain,
> Disraeli and so many more (they do the same with Winston Churchill btw).
>
>
> http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/04/06/fish-climb/
>
> Thanks Richmond I have another hour or more of programming to catch up on.
>
> Now don't get me started on OBAMA with the Nobel peace prize - Cognitive
> Dissonance anyone?
>
> 
>
> Kindest Regards
>
> Lagi
>
> btw read the book "Genius"by John Gribben  about the real Genius Richard
> Feynman and you will find a few anecdotes that will add fuel to this
> particular funeral Pyre
>
> And While your at it
> "Surely your joking Mr Feynman"
> and
>  "What do you care what other people think" both by Ralph Leighton.
>
> I don't care if you're not into science - you won't put them down they are
> that  good (How to pick up Women and Crack safes - and the Space Shuttle
>  Challenger story).
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOzoLdfWyKw
>
>
> On 7 July 2016 at 10:11, Richmond  wrote:
>
> > It is amazing how many "wise" sayings are attributed to many 

Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Lagi Pittas]

If we are going to bring up einstein , he is the "scientist"  I think who
everybody defers to and yet he was basically a 100% fraud and a plagiarist.

His equation  was publshed by the italian physicist De pretto and many
others.

While I was making sure I remembered my facts I found this - and other than
a couple of new ones on me (Isaac Newton and Preston - all the others I had
heard of)

https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/einstein-did-not-derive-e-mc2-first.28362/

But he missed out Lorentz so I found this:

naturalphilosophy.org/site/harryricker/2015/05/23/the-origin-of-the-equation-e-mc2/

One thing to not is that Poincare sent einstein a lecture he was going to
give a few days before eistein publish his paper (using Poincare's paper -
with no acknowledgement)  in face His papers had
no footnots, credits or anything and it was still published.

Now here is the kicker Eienstein (the Genius ) didn't get his Nobel
prize in 1906 or 1907 but in 1921 and not for the theory of relativity but
for

 "for his services to Theoretical Physics, and especially for his discovery
of the law of the photoelectric effect".

Why? because although many of the people who knew he was a fraud had died -
there where still people alive who knew the truth so they could't bring
themselves to give it to him for
"the greatest equation ever".
)
Some years  before he died he admitted that the equation stemmed from
Maxwells equations (a true Genius if ever there was one, up their with R.P.
Feynman  Feynman and Nikola Tesla)

|I know this is off topic but I have known about thus liar and fraud for so
may years.  When we say he's an Einstein we should be saying he's a TESLA.

Einsteins wife  Mileva was probably the brains read about his philandering
and payment to here to keep quiet.

In Walter Isaacson's biography we get a list of the conditions he gave to
Mileva

*A. You will make sure:*

*1. that my clothes and laundry are kept in good order;*
*2. that I will receive my three meals regularly in my room;*
*3. that my bedroom and study are kept neat, and especially that my desk is
left for my use only.*

*B. You will renounce all personal relations with me insofar as they are
not completely necessary for social reasons. Specifically, You will forego:*

*1. my sitting at home with you;*
*2. my going out or travelling with you.*

*C. You will obey the following points in your relations with me:*

*1. you will not expect any intimacy from me, nor will you reproach me in
any way;*
*2. you will stop talking to me if I request it;*
*3. you will leave my bedroom or study immediately without protest if I
request it.*

*D. You will undertake not to belittle me in front of our children, either
through words or behavior.*



*http://www.openculture.com/2013/12/albert-einstein-imposes-on-his-first-wife-a-cruel-list-of-marital-demands.html
*


But Isaacson still drinks the coolaid of Einstein as a genius.

One thing to note all other papers he ever wrote where with others -
(probably totally written by the other) but using Einsteins name to add
gravitas to the paper.

I have not seen one quote attributed to Einstein that somebody else had not
said before, but  the one we are talking about here

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Rita_Mae_Brown

Before I finish

Here is where I check if a quote is attributable to someone. I found it
years ago when I got so pissed off with yes you read my mind all these
 quotes from the Genius Einstein that I knew where either Voltaire, Twain,
Disraeli and so many more (they do the same with Winston Churchill btw).


http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/04/06/fish-climb/

Thanks Richmond I have another hour or more of programming to catch up on.

Now don't get me started on OBAMA with the Nobel peace prize - Cognitive
Dissonance anyone?



Kindest Regards

Lagi

btw read the book "Genius"by John Gribben  about the real Genius Richard
Feynman and you will find a few anecdotes that will add fuel to this
particular funeral Pyre

And While your at it
"Surely your joking Mr Feynman"
and
 "What do you care what other people think" both by Ralph Leighton.

I don't care if you're not into science - you won't put them down they are
that  good (How to pick up Women and Crack safes - and the Space Shuttle
 Challenger story).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOzoLdfWyKw


On 7 July 2016 at 10:11, Richmond  wrote:

> It is amazing how many "wise" sayings are attributed to many "Wise"
> people: Voltaire and Einstein included. This, I believe, is a human
> tendency to seek authority to their ideas by ascribing them to
> authority figures: like religious (and 'religious') people ascribing
> everything wise to their scripture.
>
> R.
>
> On 7.07.2016 11:09, Jacques Clavel wrote:
>
>> Mark wrote :
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *At any rate, the quote is variously ascribed to Einstein and to Benjamin
>> 

Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Richmond]

It is amazing how many "wise" sayings are attributed to many "Wise" 
people: Voltaire and Einstein included. This, I believe, is a human 
tendency to seek authority to their ideas by ascribing them to
authority figures: like religious (and 'religious') people ascribing 
everything wise to their scripture.


R.

On 7.07.2016 11:09, Jacques Clavel wrote:

Mark wrote :





*At any rate, the quote is variously ascribed to Einstein and to Benjamin
Franklin, but probably originated with Voltaire:Lorsque l'on effectue une
action, atteint un mauvais résultat, puis répète l'action plusieurs fois
attendent un meilleur résultat, on est un peu fou de singe, non? --
Réflexions sur la jonque*

I have found the Wikiquote english site, which says that...
But this quote is not a correct sentence in french. Correct sentence would
be :
"Lorsque l'on effectue une action, atteint un mauvais résultat, puis répète
l'action plusieurs fois *en attendant* un meilleur résultat, on est un peu
fou de *recommencer*, non?"

And I have not found "Réflexion sur la Jonque" in the list of the text from
Voltaire. Perhaps it exists, but I have not found it.
Ah the Web data source...

2016-07-07 3:40 GMT+02:00 Mark Wieder :


On 07/06/2016 10:44 AM, Richmond wrote:


Not true; Albert Einstein [The man who knew a lot about Physics and
Maths and not much else and


Best to stick to things you know something about, yes?


At any rate, the quote is variously ascribed to Einstein and to Benjamin
Franklin, but probably originated with Voltaire:

Lorsque l'on effectue une action, atteint un mauvais résultat, puis répète
l'action plusieurs fois attendent un meilleur résultat, on est un peu fou
de singe, non?

  -- Réflexions sur la jonque

--
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftw...@gmail.com


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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Jacques Clavel]

Mark wrote :





*At any rate, the quote is variously ascribed to Einstein and to Benjamin
Franklin, but probably originated with Voltaire:Lorsque l'on effectue une
action, atteint un mauvais résultat, puis répète l'action plusieurs fois
attendent un meilleur résultat, on est un peu fou de singe, non? --
Réflexions sur la jonque*

I have found the Wikiquote english site, which says that...
But this quote is not a correct sentence in french. Correct sentence would
be :
"Lorsque l'on effectue une action, atteint un mauvais résultat, puis répète
l'action plusieurs fois *en attendant* un meilleur résultat, on est un peu
fou de *recommencer*, non?"

And I have not found "Réflexion sur la Jonque" in the list of the text from
Voltaire. Perhaps it exists, but I have not found it.
Ah the Web data source...

2016-07-07 3:40 GMT+02:00 Mark Wieder :

> On 07/06/2016 10:44 AM, Richmond wrote:
>
>> Not true; Albert Einstein [The man who knew a lot about Physics and
>> Maths and not much else and
>>
>
> Best to stick to things you know something about, yes?
>
>
> At any rate, the quote is variously ascribed to Einstein and to Benjamin
> Franklin, but probably originated with Voltaire:
>
> Lorsque l'on effectue une action, atteint un mauvais résultat, puis répète
> l'action plusieurs fois attendent un meilleur résultat, on est un peu fou
> de singe, non?
>
>  -- Réflexions sur la jonque
>
> --
>  Mark Wieder
>  ahsoftw...@gmail.com
>
>
> ___
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> subscription preferences:
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-- 
Jacques Clavel
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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Mark Wieder]

On 07/06/2016 10:44 AM, Richmond wrote:

Not true; Albert Einstein [The man who knew a lot about Physics and
Maths and not much else and


Best to stick to things you know something about, yes?


At any rate, the quote is variously ascribed to Einstein and to Benjamin 
Franklin, but probably originated with Voltaire:


Lorsque l'on effectue une action, atteint un mauvais résultat, puis 
répète l'action plusieurs fois attendent un meilleur résultat, on est un 
peu fou de singe, non?


 -- Réflexions sur la jonque

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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somewhat OT, funny (was Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2)

[Dar Scott]

Something like this actually happened to a friend of mine and the programmer's 
solution worked, though she had to apply it several times as the car kept 
stalling.

She was able to get the car back to the mechanic, who apologized and said that 
he had had to set the car's computer back to factory settings in fixing the 
previous problems but there is a bug in factory default and it sets fuel levels 
too low after a few minutes.  That computer is reset by disconnecting the 
battery or by locking the car (or sending an encrypted reset code), so by 
getting out and locking the car she had a few more minutes.  He had neglected 
to take the next step and felt silly.  The mechanic did something with the 
computer (applied updates? set elevation?) and the problem was fixed.  She was 
happy.  


> On Jul 5, 2016, at 11:24 PM, Mark Wieder  wrote:
> 
> On 07/01/2016 08:26 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>> Mark Wieder wrote:
>> > The dictionary "works" for me in 64-bit linux, but only thusly:
>> >
>> > open the dictionary
>> > you get a blank pane
>> > close the dictionary
>> > open it again
>> 
>> An electrician, an engineer, and a programmer are driving to Vegas when
>> the car suddenly shudders to a stop.
>> 
>> The electrician suggests, "I think we should check the spark plugs."
>> 
>> The engineer says, "I think we should check the intake valves."
>> 
>> The programmer says, "I think we should get out of the car and then get
>> back into it again."
>> 
> 
> "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different 
> results"
> 
> - Albert Einstein
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
> 
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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Richmond]

Not true; Albert Einstein [The man who knew a lot about Physics and 
Maths and not much else and
is quoted far too often out of context], Induction is bad reasoning ; 
yet we all do it all of the time.


So, I always expect the unexpected; and, oddly enough, it seems to 
happen quite a lot.


Richmond.

On 6.07.2016 08:24, Mark Wieder wrote:

On 07/01/2016 08:26 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

Mark Wieder wrote:
 > The dictionary "works" for me in 64-bit linux, but only thusly:
 >
 > open the dictionary
 > you get a blank pane
 > close the dictionary
 > open it again

An electrician, an engineer, and a programmer are driving to Vegas when
the car suddenly shudders to a stop.

The electrician suggests, "I think we should check the spark plugs."

The engineer says, "I think we should check the intake valves."

The programmer says, "I think we should get out of the car and then get
back into it again."



"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting 
different results"


 - Albert Einstein




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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[[-hh]]

Mark Wieder wrote:
> The dictionary "works" for me in 64-bit linux, but only thusly:
>
> open the dictionary
> you get a blank pane
> close the dictionary
> open it again

Mark, honestly, for what else than opening and closing do *you*
need the dictionary? :-)



--
View this message in context: 
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Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Lagi Pittas]

It was always and still  is the same in version 6.x series  for the
application browser 99.99% of the time.
It must have been an itch the devs didn't feel like scratching

Gotta live with it now though.

Lagi

On 6 July 2016 at 06:24, Mark Wieder  wrote:

> On 07/01/2016 08:26 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>> Mark Wieder wrote:
>>  > The dictionary "works" for me in 64-bit linux, but only thusly:
>>  >
>>  > open the dictionary
>>  > you get a blank pane
>>  > close the dictionary
>>  > open it again
>>
>> An electrician, an engineer, and a programmer are driving to Vegas when
>> the car suddenly shudders to a stop.
>>
>> The electrician suggests, "I think we should check the spark plugs."
>>
>> The engineer says, "I think we should check the intake valves."
>>
>> The programmer says, "I think we should get out of the car and then get
>> back into it again."
>>
>>
> "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting
> different results"
>
>  - Albert Einstein
>
> --
>  Mark Wieder
>  ahsoftw...@gmail.com
>
> ___
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Mark Wieder]

On 07/01/2016 08:26 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

Mark Wieder wrote:
 > The dictionary "works" for me in 64-bit linux, but only thusly:
 >
 > open the dictionary
 > you get a blank pane
 > close the dictionary
 > open it again

An electrician, an engineer, and a programmer are driving to Vegas when
the car suddenly shudders to a stop.

The electrician suggests, "I think we should check the spark plugs."

The engineer says, "I think we should check the intake valves."

The programmer says, "I think we should get out of the car and then get
back into it again."



"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting 
different results"


 - Albert Einstein

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Warren Samples]

On 07/01/2016 02:49 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:


I would suggest filing the report.  If anyone complains, I'll take the
heat. :)

It may be that this is something we'll fix as a community effort, but at
least having it in the bug DB will give us a central place to share
notes and logs as we work toward a resolution.

Please let me know the report ID/URL when you post it so I can add
myself to the CC list and review the info there to see if I can help
triage it.

Thanks -



Thank you, Richard.

Bug 17938 LiveCode fails to open in openSUSE Leap 42.1



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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Mark Wieder]

On 07/01/2016 03:15 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote:


They are literally back by popular demand. :-)


Thank you. Much appreciated.

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Peter TB Brett]

On 01/07/2016 21:20, J. Landman Gay wrote:

On 6/30/2016 8:00 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote:

We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.0-dp-2


Thank you for adding back the descriptions of bug fixes. For the last
few releases all we had were numbers and it was difficult to know
exactly what was fixed without clicking on each link and loading a web
page. The revised report is much more useful. Good move.


They are literally back by popular demand. :-)

 Peter

--
Dr Peter Brett 
LiveCode Technical Project Manager

LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/

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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[J. Landman Gay]

On 6/30/2016 8:00 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote:

We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.0-dp-2


Thank you for adding back the descriptions of bug fixes. For the last 
few releases all we had were numbers and it was difficult to know 
exactly what was fixed without clicking on each link and loading a web 
page. The revised report is much more useful. Good move.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Richard Gaskin]

Warren Samples wrote:

> I never filed a bug report. I reported my problem in a reply to
> another release announcement fairly recently and didn't receive
> any comment from any of the devs that have been generously
> participating on this list so  I (perhaps stupidly and/or unfairly)
> took that to mean there was little interest in tackling it. Linux
> is not anything like a single target and we've all seen the dreaded
> "we can't reproduce it here" response that has to be as frustrating
> to the devs as it is to those of us who have the problem :D I'm
> grateful for the interest you and Mark Wieder have shown. I'm not
> averse to filing or contributing to bug reports and will do so with
> your encouragement.

I would suggest filing the report.  If anyone complains, I'll take the 
heat. :)


It may be that this is something we'll fix as a community effort, but at 
least having it in the bug DB will give us a central place to share 
notes and logs as we work toward a resolution.


Please let me know the report ID/URL when you post it so I can add 
myself to the CC list and review the info there to see if I can help 
triage it.


Thanks -

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com


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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Warren Samples]

On 07/01/2016 11:53 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

Warren Samples wrote:

 > The 64 bit LiveCode IDE fails to open for me under openSUSE Leap
 > 42.1.
...
 > The shell prints a backtrace. Would this be helpful to see? Running
 > LiveCode through strace using some particular option?
 >
 > --- (end quote)---
 >
 > To clarify the last sentence of the first paragraph of the original
 > (copied here from the dev list) post, simple standalones and LiveCode
 > Server do work under Leap, it's the IDE that is the problem.

Good sleuthing so far.  Narrowing it down to the IDE is especially
useful, as it suggests something that may eventually affect standalones,
since of course the IDE is just a collection of stacks itself.

I'm not familiar with backtrace, but the output appears to be very
different from strace.  Have you run strace?  To get going I wouldn't
worry about flags, even the defaults would likely yield useful info.

What's the bug report ID for this?  Maybe the logs should be included as
attachments there.http://warren.ws/strace-LC-output.txt



Richard,

I never filed a bug report. I reported my problem in a reply to another 
release announcement fairly recently and didn't receive any comment from 
any of the devs that have been generously participating on this list so 
I (perhaps stupidly and/or unfairly) took that to mean there was little 
interest in tackling it. Linux is not anything like a single target and 
we've all seen the dreaded "we can't reproduce it here" response that 
has to be as frustrating to the devs as it is to those of us who have 
the problem :D I'm grateful for the interest you and Mark Wieder have 
shown. I'm not averse to filing or contributing to bug reports and will 
do so with your encouragement.


The strace output, run without any flags, is 2.4 MB and 27,000+ lines. 
It means nothing to me, dilettante that I am. You can find it here: 
 If you can think of any flags 
which might make it more manageable or useful, I will be happy to run it 
again.


Warren

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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Richard Gaskin]

Warren Samples wrote:

> The 64 bit LiveCode IDE fails to open for me under openSUSE Leap
> 42.1.
...
> The shell prints a backtrace. Would this be helpful to see? Running
> LiveCode through strace using some particular option?
>
> --- (end quote)---
>
> To clarify the last sentence of the first paragraph of the original
> (copied here from the dev list) post, simple standalones and LiveCode
> Server do work under Leap, it's the IDE that is the problem.

Good sleuthing so far.  Narrowing it down to the IDE is especially 
useful, as it suggests something that may eventually affect standalones, 
since of course the IDE is just a collection of stacks itself.


I'm not familiar with backtrace, but the output appears to be very 
different from strace.  Have you run strace?  To get going I wouldn't 
worry about flags, even the defaults would likely yield useful info.


What's the bug report ID for this?  Maybe the logs should be included as 
attachments there.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Warren Samples]

On 07/01/2016 10:00 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

Warren Samples wrote:

ldd doesn't show anything missing. Getting LiveCode to run under
Tumbleweed requires no head scratching or additional installation of
libs, using the official installation DVD and as well the geckoLinux
spin (rolling version) in both the XFCE and Budgie flavors.

There's a thread on the dev list with the subject "LiveCode fails to
open in openSUSE Leap".


Searching for that string gave me zero results, and searching for
"OpenSUSE" brought up many old threads.

URL?




I follow the lists locally, in my email client, so I can't provide you a 
URL. The thread was started on 6-23 on the LiveCode Developer List. Here 
is the content of the original post:


---(start quote)---

The 64 bit LiveCode IDE fails to open for me under openSUSE Leap 42.1. 
It was previously working under openSUSE versions 12.x and 13.x. While 
there was a period when it failed under Tumbleweed (rolling release), it 
works in at least the last two snapshots. Simple standalones work as do 
simple LC Server scripts.


The first few times I tried, the LiveCode splash screen hanged while 
loading the menu bar (the last text displayed) and the process had to be 
killed. Now the splash screen disappears after less than a second.


Here is the tail of the livecode_tools_log:
 Loading Script Editor...
Enter Script Editor Initialisation
Leave Script Editor Initialisation
Loading User Icon Libraries...
Enter User Libraries Initialisation
Leave User Libraries Initialisation
Loading Error Management...
Enter Errors Initialisation
Leave Errors Initialisation
Loading Menu Bar...
Enter Menus Initialisation
  Trying to get the platform
  Linux

Starting LiveCode from the command line returns this error:
"Error in 
`/home/warren/.runrev/components/livecodecommunity-8.0.2-rc-2.x86_64/livecodecommunity.x86_64': 
free(): invalid next size (fast): 0x04e84a80"


and sends this to stderr:
"Use of deprecated SAXv1 function setDocumentLocator
Got SIGIOT"

It's strange that SUSE built on older and newer libs both work while the 
current "main" version does not. Do these errors reveal any useful clues 
as to what might be done to get it working?


The shell prints a backtrace. Would this be helpful to see? Running 
LiveCode through strace using some particular option?


--- (end quote)---

To clarify the last sentence of the first paragraph of the original 
(copied here from the dev list) post, simple standalones and LiveCode 
Server do work under Leap, it's the IDE that is the problem.


openSUSE is quietly one of the more popular distros and Leap is the 
current "standard" release so it might be a good thing to get this 
figured out. I wonder what LiveCode does just after it gets the 
platform, as it finishes up the menus initialization. I posted the shell 
backtrace at:




It should be noted that if I run the command several times, the 
backtrace will not consistently end with the same lines; sometimes 
aborting with more lines and sometimes fewer.


Thank you for looking at this :)

Warren


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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Richard Gaskin]

Mark Wieder wrote:
> The dictionary "works" for me in 64-bit linux, but only thusly:
>
> open the dictionary
> you get a blank pane
> close the dictionary
> open it again

An electrician, an engineer, and a programmer are driving to Vegas when 
the car suddenly shudders to a stop.


The electrician suggests, "I think we should check the spark plugs."

The engineer says, "I think we should check the intake valves."

The programmer says, "I think we should get out of the car and then get 
back into it again."



--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Richard Gaskin]

Warren Samples wrote:

ldd doesn't show anything missing. Getting LiveCode to run under
Tumbleweed requires no head scratching or additional installation of
libs, using the official installation DVD and as well the geckoLinux
spin (rolling version) in both the XFCE and Budgie flavors.

There's a thread on the dev list with the subject "LiveCode fails to
open in openSUSE Leap".


Searching for that string gave me zero results, and searching for 
"OpenSUSE" brought up many old threads.


URL?

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Richmond]

Nothing doing over here (Xubuntu 16.04 64 bit) either with
Community or Indy.

Richmond.

On 1.07.2016 08:07, Mark Wieder wrote:

On 06/30/2016 11:44 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

Richmond wrote:
 > Still waiting (64-bit, Linux) for the Dictionary.

Which distro?

I've been able to use the Dictionary on 64-bit Ubuntu (14.04, 15.10, and
16.04) ever since LC v8.0rc1.

@LC Ltd:  good work on the Dictionary UI refinements.  MUCH more usable.



The dictionary "works" for me in 64-bit linux, but only thusly:

open the dictionary
you get a blank pane
close the dictionary
open it again




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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Mark Wieder]

On 06/30/2016 11:44 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

Richmond wrote:
 > Still waiting (64-bit, Linux) for the Dictionary.

Which distro?

I've been able to use the Dictionary on 64-bit Ubuntu (14.04, 15.10, and
16.04) ever since LC v8.0rc1.

@LC Ltd:  good work on the Dictionary UI refinements.  MUCH more usable.



The dictionary "works" for me in 64-bit linux, but only thusly:

open the dictionary
you get a blank pane
close the dictionary
open it again

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Warren Samples]

On 06/30/2016 03:10 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

Warren Samples wrote:

 > I can't open LiveCode on my Linux machine running the current release
 > of openSUSE (Leap). I can, however, run it under different release
 > versions of openSUSE and have it open right now in a virtual machine
 > running openSUSE Tumbleweed. The dictionary seems to work just fine.

Good to know the Dictionary works there, but let's explore your other
SUSE versions and see if we can get the boot issue resolved.

Bryan Lunduke works for SUSE, and recently wrote a very enthusiastic
review of LC 8 after running it on SUSE and Elementary:



Have you run LC with ldd to see if it's unable to find an expected package?



Richard,

Yes, I saw the article and noticed he had tried it under openSUSE. He 
doesn't say in the article which version he used for his review, but he 
has mentioned elsewhere that he prefers a rolling release and uses 
Tumbleweed.


ldd doesn't show anything missing. Getting LiveCode to run under 
Tumbleweed requires no head scratching or additional installation of 
libs, using the official installation DVD and as well the geckoLinux 
spin (rolling version) in both the XFCE and Budgie flavors.


There's a thread on the dev list with the subject "LiveCode fails to 
open in openSUSE Leap".



Warren

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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Mark Waddingham]

On 2016-06-30 23:34, Mike Kerner wrote:

well, "return error x" gives me a syntax error, and the documentation
specifies the syntax I describe, and indicates that it changed in 
8.1.0, so
before I do anything, why don't we clarify what we think it's supposed 
to

be, first.


The release note is incorrect - the dictionary is correct.

The original syntax (in the release note) is ambiguous, so we had to 
change it but I forgot to amend the release note.


Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Monte Goulding]

I don’t think there’s a bug but it may be appear so depending on how you test 
the function. For example:

get func() — will set it to the return val so don’t do that to test this

Additionally the result is district from the value of the function so:

put func() is the result — will be false

For clarity here’s the tests that pass for this build:

https://github.com/livecode/livecode/blob/develop/tests/lcs/core/engine/return.livecodescript

Cheers

Monte

> On 1 Jul 2016, at 7:34 AM, Mike Kerner  wrote:
> 
> well, "return error x" gives me a syntax error, and the documentation
> specifies the syntax I describe, and indicates that it changed in 8.1.0, so
> before I do anything, why don't we clarify what we think it's supposed to
> be, first.
> 
> On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 5:30 PM, Peter TB Brett 
> wrote:
> 
>> On 30/06/2016 22:20, Mike Kerner wrote:
>> 
>> in a function, In a function, return x for error does nothing - the
>>> function terminates without returning a value, and it and the result are
>>> empty.  return x for value and return x do the same thing - the container
>>> assigned gets the return value gets x, the result gets nothing.
>>> 
>> 
>> That sounds like a bug to me... "return x for error" in a function is
>> supposed to terminate the function without returning a value, and set the
>> result to x.  Can you please file a bug with your recipe?
>> 
>>Peter
>> 
>> --
>> Dr Peter Brett 
>> LiveCode Technical Project Manager
>> 
>> LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Mike Kerner]

well, "return error x" gives me a syntax error, and the documentation
specifies the syntax I describe, and indicates that it changed in 8.1.0, so
before I do anything, why don't we clarify what we think it's supposed to
be, first.

On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 5:30 PM, Peter TB Brett 
wrote:

> On 30/06/2016 22:20, Mike Kerner wrote:
>
> in a function, In a function, return x for error does nothing - the
>> function terminates without returning a value, and it and the result are
>> empty.  return x for value and return x do the same thing - the container
>> assigned gets the return value gets x, the result gets nothing.
>>
>
> That sounds like a bug to me... "return x for error" in a function is
> supposed to terminate the function without returning a value, and set the
> result to x.  Can you please file a bug with your recipe?
>
> Peter
>
> --
> Dr Peter Brett 
> LiveCode Technical Project Manager
>
> LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/
>
>
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Peter TB Brett]

On 30/06/2016 22:20, Mike Kerner wrote:


in a function, In a function, return x for error does nothing - the
function terminates without returning a value, and it and the result are
empty.  return x for value and return x do the same thing - the container
assigned gets the return value gets x, the result gets nothing.


That sounds like a bug to me... "return x for error" in a function is 
supposed to terminate the function without returning a value, and set 
the result to x.  Can you please file a bug with your recipe?


Peter

--
Dr Peter Brett 
LiveCode Technical Project Manager

LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/

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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Mike Kerner]

FYI, the new return syntax is different than what was described.

return x for error
return x for value
return x

The behavior:
with a handler, return x for error and return x do the same thing - the
result gets x and it gets nothing.  With return x for value, it gets x and
the result gets nothing.

in a function, In a function, return x for error does nothing - the
function terminates without returning a value, and it and the result are
empty.  return x for value and return x do the same thing - the container
assigned gets the return value gets x, the result gets nothing.

-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Richard Gaskin]

Warren Samples wrote:

> I can't open LiveCode on my Linux machine running the current release
> of openSUSE (Leap). I can, however, run it under different release
> versions of openSUSE and have it open right now in a virtual machine
> running openSUSE Tumbleweed. The dictionary seems to work just fine.

Good to know the Dictionary works there, but let's explore your other 
SUSE versions and see if we can get the boot issue resolved.


Bryan Lunduke works for SUSE, and recently wrote a very enthusiastic 
review of LC 8 after running it on SUSE and Elementary:



Have you run LC with ldd to see if it's unable to find an expected package?

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com


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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Warren Samples]

On 06/30/2016 11:02 AM, Richmond wrote:

Still waiting (64-bit, Linux) for the Dictionary.

Richmond.



I understand your frustration, Richmond. I can't open LiveCode on my 
Linux machine running the current release of openSUSE (Leap). I can, 
however, run it under different release versions of openSUSE and have it 
open right now in a virtual machine running openSUSE Tumbleweed. The 
dictionary seems to work just fine. I have seen from your previous 
discussion of this problem that you've been willing to go to some 
lengths to get a working dictionary and I salute your perseverance. Have 
you ever tried opening LiveCode from the command line and selecting the 
dictionary to see if it gives you any useful messages?

When I do that it gives me this:

"[0630/121025:ERROR:browser_main_loop.cc(203)] Running without the SUID 
sandbox! See 
https://code.google.com/p/chromium/wiki/LinuxSUIDSandboxDevelopment for 
more information on developing with the sandbox on."


Despite this message, the dictionary does open and display content. It's 
possible you'll get some other message which might be useful.


What happens if you put a browser on a card, assign it a URL and select 
the LC browse tool? Does it display content as expected?


Warren

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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Richard Gaskin]

Richmond wrote:
> Still waiting (64-bit, Linux) for the Dictionary.

Which distro?

I've been able to use the Dictionary on 64-bit Ubuntu (14.04, 15.10, and 
16.04) ever since LC v8.0rc1.


@LC Ltd:  good work on the Dictionary UI refinements.  MUCH more usable.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com


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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Richmond]

Still waiting (64-bit, Linux) for the Dictionary.

Richmond.

On 30.06.2016 16:00, Peter TB Brett wrote:

Dear list members,

We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.0-dp-2, a 
development preview of LiveCode 8.1.


Developer Preview Release
=
Warning: this is not a stable release.  Please ensure that you back up 
your stacks before testing them.



Getting the Release
===
You can get the release at 
https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/#8_1_0 or via the automatic 
updater.



Release Contents

Full release notes: 
https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/8_1_0/LiveCodeNotes-8_1_0_dp_2.pdf


Improved return command
---
You can now "return error " and or "return error " to 
set the "it" variable and/or "the result" directly from LiveCode 
Script commands and functions.


LiveCode "Infinite" improvements to LCB
---
* Out parameters are now initialized by default
* Variables now have lexical scope
* You can now include hand-written LCB bytecode in "bytecode" blocks
* Foreign handlers are now unsafe by default; the language now has 
"unsafe" blocks and handlers


New mobile GPS support on Android & iOS
---
* Location history is now available, so that detailed location 
resolution over time can be tracked even if the processing of the 
"locationChanged" message is delayed.

* The accuracy of Android GPS timestamps has been improved

New Windows player control
--
* Several problems with the new Windows player control have been 
addressed, including the default set of codecs supported, and some 
rendering and control issues
* Important changes to the default value and interpretation of the 
"dontUseQT" property


More!
-
* Get synchronous modifier key state with the "eventAltKey", 
"eventShiftKey" (etc.) functions

* New "vectorDotProduct()" function
* Improved dictionary user interface, including clear indication for 
deprecated entries

* More than 50 bugs fixed, including many crashes

Known issues

* HTML5 standalones do not currently work when they contain extensions 
with dependencies
* 64-bit standalones for Mac OS X do not have support for audio 
recording or the revVideoGrabber external
* The default video is in .mov format which is not supported by the 
new Windows player (bug 17696), and several player properties have

not yet been implemented (see release notes)


Feedback

Please report any bugs encountered either to our support team 
 or on our Bugzilla at http://quality.livecode.com/



Have fun!
The LiveCode Team

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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Mike Kerner]

As discussed on the other side, the new return syntax is
return value  to set "it"
return error  to set "the result"

On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 9:00 AM, Peter TB Brett 
wrote:

> Dear list members,
>
> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.0-dp-2, a
> development preview of LiveCode 8.1.
>
> Developer Preview Release
> =
> Warning: this is not a stable release.  Please ensure that you back up
> your stacks before testing them.
>
>
> Getting the Release
> ===
> You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/#8_1_0
> or via the automatic updater.
>
>
> Release Contents
> 
> Full release notes:
> https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/8_1_0/LiveCodeNotes-8_1_0_dp_2.pdf
>
> Improved return command
> ---
> You can now "return error " and or "return error " to set
> the "it" variable and/or "the result" directly from LiveCode Script
> commands and functions.
>
> LiveCode "Infinite" improvements to LCB
> ---
> * Out parameters are now initialized by default
> * Variables now have lexical scope
> * You can now include hand-written LCB bytecode in "bytecode" blocks
> * Foreign handlers are now unsafe by default; the language now has
> "unsafe" blocks and handlers
>
> New mobile GPS support on Android & iOS
> ---
> * Location history is now available, so that detailed location resolution
> over time can be tracked even if the processing of the "locationChanged"
> message is delayed.
> * The accuracy of Android GPS timestamps has been improved
>
> New Windows player control
> --
> * Several problems with the new Windows player control have been
> addressed, including the default set of codecs supported, and some
> rendering and control issues
> * Important changes to the default value and interpretation of the
> "dontUseQT" property
>
> More!
> -
> * Get synchronous modifier key state with the "eventAltKey",
> "eventShiftKey" (etc.) functions
> * New "vectorDotProduct()" function
> * Improved dictionary user interface, including clear indication for
> deprecated entries
> * More than 50 bugs fixed, including many crashes
>
> Known issues
> 
> * HTML5 standalones do not currently work when they contain extensions
> with dependencies
> * 64-bit standalones for Mac OS X do not have support for audio recording
> or the revVideoGrabber external
> * The default video is in .mov format which is not supported by the new
> Windows player (bug 17696), and several player properties have
> not yet been implemented (see release notes)
>
>
> Feedback
> 
> Please report any bugs encountered either to our support team <
> supp...@livecode.com> or on our Bugzilla at http://quality.livecode.com/
>
>
> Have fun!
> The LiveCode Team
>
> ___
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> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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[ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 2

[Peter TB Brett]

Dear list members,

We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.0-dp-2, a 
development preview of LiveCode 8.1.


Developer Preview Release
=
Warning: this is not a stable release.  Please ensure that you back up 
your stacks before testing them.



Getting the Release
===
You can get the release at 
https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/#8_1_0 or via the automatic updater.



Release Contents

Full release notes: 
https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/8_1_0/LiveCodeNotes-8_1_0_dp_2.pdf


Improved return command
---
You can now "return error " and or "return error " to set 
the "it" variable and/or "the result" directly from LiveCode Script 
commands and functions.


LiveCode "Infinite" improvements to LCB
---
* Out parameters are now initialized by default
* Variables now have lexical scope
* You can now include hand-written LCB bytecode in "bytecode" blocks
* Foreign handlers are now unsafe by default; the language now has 
"unsafe" blocks and handlers


New mobile GPS support on Android & iOS
---
* Location history is now available, so that detailed location 
resolution over time can be tracked even if the processing of the 
"locationChanged" message is delayed.

* The accuracy of Android GPS timestamps has been improved

New Windows player control
--
* Several problems with the new Windows player control have been 
addressed, including the default set of codecs supported, and some 
rendering and control issues
* Important changes to the default value and interpretation of the 
"dontUseQT" property


More!
-
* Get synchronous modifier key state with the "eventAltKey", 
"eventShiftKey" (etc.) functions

* New "vectorDotProduct()" function
* Improved dictionary user interface, including clear indication for 
deprecated entries

* More than 50 bugs fixed, including many crashes

Known issues

* HTML5 standalones do not currently work when they contain extensions 
with dependencies
* 64-bit standalones for Mac OS X do not have support for audio 
recording or the revVideoGrabber external
* The default video is in .mov format which is not supported by the new 
Windows player (bug 17696), and several player properties have

not yet been implemented (see release notes)


Feedback

Please report any bugs encountered either to our support team 
 or on our Bugzilla at http://quality.livecode.com/



Have fun!
The LiveCode Team

___
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Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
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