Re: [off] Apple to unify ios/macos apps next year

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

On 2018-01-02 18:46, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:

I'm coming to this late, but it looks to me as if the list got into a
nightmare mode a bit prematurely. What the article actually talks
about is a way to create apps which can be used across 'desktop' and
mobile operating systems - specifically *not* about merging those
operating systems.

In short, a very approximate way of describing the idea would be... 
LiveCode.


We code an app with a text field and a button; on the desktop our
users click the button with the mouse, on mobile they touch it. On
desktop they click into the field and start typing on their keyboard;
on mobile they touch the field and a soft keyboard appears. Apple are
just trying to help the rest of the developer community catch up with
us.

Shouldn't we panic less? Or have I missed something?


My take on it is that Apple intend to include a port of 'UIKit' to macOS 
in the next macOS version - meaning that an app written for iOS would 
compile and run on macOS without changes.


A lot of frameworks are already shared between macOS and iOS - e.g. 
CoreGraphics, MapKit, AVFoundation, ... (the list is actually very 
long). The main points of difference (i.e. where you don't get source 
compatibility) between coding for iOS and coding for macOS is UIKit vs 
Cocoa - i.e. the way you interact with the window system - usually 
though its just a few lines (e.g. using a UIView on iOS vs an NSView on 
macOS).


Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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Re: [off] Apple to unify ios/macos apps next year

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Bob Sneidar wrote:

> I'm not saying our hackles shouldn't be raised, I'm simply proposing
> that if conclusive proof existed which undeniably indicted Kaspersky
> of this kind of activity,

When you read the details of the reports you'll see the "conclusive 
proof" part is going to be hard to get publicly.  This involves the 
national security of multiple nations, so they're not inclined to 
divulge sources.


I haven't yet read anything from a non-government source confirming 
these claims, but that may not be surprising given the level of 
sophistication possible.  For example, all AV software requires admin 
privileges, and they all update themselves.  So who can say whether the 
copy of Kaspersky I run is the same as what someone would be running 
from a known block of government IP addresses?


There are many ways such software could be difficult for the public to 
get "conclusive proof" about.


If someone wants to install Kaspersky it doesn't matter to me, as long 
as they're neither my employee or contractor.  At least one of my 
clients is a federal contractor, so I have to run a clean ship.


Besides, it's not like there's a shortage of reasonably good AV software 
out there.  I can just use anything that isn't hosted on 
Kremlin-controlled networks.



> it would result in the demise of Kaspersky as a company,

In progress:

Kaspersky Lab: D.C. office ‘no longer viable’ and will close



> and Russia would lose a key source of Signals Intelligence.

That seems to be the goal.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: [off] Apple to unify ios/macos apps next year

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Can't argue with you there. But many routers are capable of offloading their 
logs to a log server, and any Government Contractor or agency is likely to be 
doing so, as well as running IDS, so there's that. 

I'm not saying our hackles shouldn't be raised, I'm simply proposing that if 
conclusive proof existed which undeniably indicted Kaspersky of this kind of 
activity, it would result in the demise of Kaspersky as a company, and Russia 
would lose a key source of Signals Intelligence. 

What I would be more concerned about is not that there is current or past 
activity, but that there is a "button" that could be pushed to enable the 
clients to begin transmitting critical intelligence during a conflict, or even 
worse, to disable devices running their product. The software would have to be 
decompiled and the code examined to make that determination. I can't believe no 
one has thought to do so, and perhaps the warnings we are getting are the 
fruits of that kind of investigation. 

Bob S


> On Jan 2, 2018, at 11:33 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> For myself, when the intelligence agencies of at least three different 
> nations are telling me to be wary of Kaspersky, and dozens of news articles 
> from papers of record around the world provide details of relationships 
> between Kaspersky staff and FSB agents, at a minimum I'm inclined to consider 
> other brands for my AV needs.
> 
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems


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Re: [off] Apple to unify ios/macos apps next year

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

What model of router has the capacity to store all incoming and outgoing 
traffic?


What did you find when you monitored Kaspersky traffic with Wireshark?

I won't claim to have done the original research on this.  I provided 
multiple links to reasonably reputable sources so the reader can go 
beyond the headlines and decide for themselves.


For myself, when the intelligence agencies of at least three different 
nations are telling me to be wary of Kaspersky, and dozens of news 
articles from papers of record around the world provide details of 
relationships between Kaspersky staff and FSB agents, at a minimum I'm 
inclined to consider other brands for my AV needs.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems


Bob Sneidar wrote:

> Not to venture off topic too far, but if Kaspersky products have been
> communicating with outside entities and passing along information, the
> real wonder is that there are no present indications in anyone's
> router logs to indicate it is doing so. In fact there are entire
> companies that thrive on looking for such compromises, as well as
> competing companies which would make capital on any such evidence.
> Intrusion Detection Systems all over the globe monitor for suspicious
> activity. Many exploits have been discovered through these kinds of
> systems. I have not heard of any which indicate that Kaspersky
> products are compromising security.
>
> As Sherlock Holmes said to Watson on many occasions, "It is always a
> mistake, my dear Watson, to guess. Invariably you will find yourself
> attempting to fit the facts to your theories, instead of forming your
> theories to fit the facts."
>
> Bob S
>
>
>> On Jan 2, 2018, at 09:37 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
 wrote:

>>
>> Rick Harrison wrote:
>>
>> > Never recommend Mac Keeper or Mac Cleaner as they
>> > are considered to be Malware/Spyware/Annoyance-ware
>> > and are difficult for some users to eradicate.
>>
>> Add Kaspersky to that list:
>>
>> UK cyber security chief warns government against using Kaspersky
>> 


>>
>>
>> Kaspersky Lab Antivirus Software Is Ordered Off U.S. Government 
Computers
>> 


>>
>>
>> Israeli intelligence warned US of Russian spies using Kaspersky software
>> 
>>
>>
>> Kaspersky Lab Has Been Working With Russian Intelligence
>> 


>>




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Re: [off] Apple to unify ios/macos apps next year

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

A radically slower processor and/or a limited number of expansion ports? Of 
course you can get cheap laptops too. But your point is taken. Whenever someone 
asks me, "What computer (or phone or tablet) should I buy?" I always ask, "Why 
are you wanting to do with it?" I am all in favor of small/inexpensive devices 
which are limited in their functionality. In fact, that is what the iPhone, and 
then later the iPad and android based devices actually did for the market. They 
filled a huge niche where a lot of people (Mom/Dad/Grandparents/School Kids) 
didn't need a relatively expensive laptop, but there was nothing else 
available. 

Bob S

> On Jan 2, 2018, at 10:51 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> After all, what's the difference between a tablet with a docking keyboard and 
> a laptop with a detachable touch screen?


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Re: [off] Apple to unify ios/macos apps next year

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Ben Rubinstein wrote:


I'm coming to this late, but it looks to me as if the list got into a
nightmare mode a bit prematurely. What the article actually talks
about is a way to create apps which can be used across 'desktop' and
mobile operating systems - specifically *not* about merging those
operating systems.


What is an operating system without applications?

The OS is the bedrock; apps are the home built on top in which we live. 
Apps define what we do with our devices.


That Apple would join the effort to define multi-device APIs along with 
Microsoft and Linux is inevitable, as many suggested even before the 
iPad premiered.


After all, what's the difference between a tablet with a docking 
keyboard and a laptop with a detachable touch screen?


As device form factors continue to multiply they continue to overlap in 
use-cases. To maintain an entirely different OS for every device type is 
only slightly less cumbersome than if they were to have a different OS 
for every model.  As use-cases overlap, that's effectively the corner a 
vendor would paint themselves into.  Not at all surprising to see this 
next logical evolutionary step.


While it's validating to see OS vendors adopt a more LiveCode Way of 
working, LC will still hold an advantage over OS-provided tools:


Apple and Microsoft act as though nothing else exists outside their 
walls; as long as you buy gear and tools from one OS vendor they work 
well, but neither has any incentive to prioritize about 
interoperability.  Why should they spend money to strengthen their 
competitor's position?


Meanwhile, people have diverse tastes so the world is naturally 
multi-platform.  A tool that plays nice with others will always provide 
access to more people using more platforms more affordably than any 
OS-exclusive option.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: [off] Apple to unify ios/macos apps next year

[JB via use-livecode]

And my question was will they have the
intelligence to do it the way you suggest.

Apple did rename OS X to macOS which
suggest changes to the OS but what will
those changes be?

If they do it they way you are thinking it
will be one of the best things they have
in years.

JB


> On Jan 2, 2018, at 9:46 AM, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I'm coming to this late, but it looks to me as if the list got into a 
> nightmare mode a bit prematurely. What the article actually talks about is a 
> way to create apps which can be used across 'desktop' and mobile operating 
> systems - specifically *not* about merging those operating systems.
> 
> In short, a very approximate way of describing the idea would be... LiveCode.
> 
> We code an app with a text field and a button; on the desktop our users click 
> the button with the mouse, on mobile they touch it. On desktop they click 
> into the field and start typing on their keyboard; on mobile they touch the 
> field and a soft keyboard appears. Apple are just trying to help the rest of 
> the developer community catch up with us.
> 
> Shouldn't we panic less? Or have I missed something?
> 
> 
> On 21/12/2017 01:01, Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode wrote:
>> On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 3:35 PM, JB via use-livecode
>>  wrote:
>>> Is Apple going to have enough intelligence to
>>> make the ios compatible with the os desktop
>>> or will they do away with the desktop to make
>>> the new mac os like the ios?
>> *shudder*
>> I'd be back on FreeBSD in a couple of days.
>> It's Spotlight and the power management on portables that has me using
>> mac as my unix platform. OK, and iCloud Drive now.
>> Mess with those (and spotlight has seriously regressed over the last
>> ten years) and I'm gone.
> 
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Re: [off] Apple to unify ios/macos apps next year

[Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode]

I'm coming to this late, but it looks to me as if the list got into a 
nightmare mode a bit prematurely. What the article actually talks about is a 
way to create apps which can be used across 'desktop' and mobile operating 
systems - specifically *not* about merging those operating systems.


In short, a very approximate way of describing the idea would be... LiveCode.

We code an app with a text field and a button; on the desktop our users click 
the button with the mouse, on mobile they touch it. On desktop they click into 
the field and start typing on their keyboard; on mobile they touch the field 
and a soft keyboard appears. Apple are just trying to help the rest of the 
developer community catch up with us.


Shouldn't we panic less? Or have I missed something?


On 21/12/2017 01:01, Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode wrote:

On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 3:35 PM, JB via use-livecode
 wrote:

Is Apple going to have enough intelligence to
make the ios compatible with the os desktop
or will they do away with the desktop to make
the new mac os like the ios?



*shudder*

I'd be back on FreeBSD in a couple of days.

It's Spotlight and the power management on portables that has me using
mac as my unix platform. OK, and iCloud Drive now.

Mess with those (and spotlight has seriously regressed over the last
ten years) and I'm gone.




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Re: [off] Apple to unify ios/macos apps next year

[Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode]

On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 3:35 PM, JB via use-livecode
 wrote:
> Is Apple going to have enough intelligence to
> make the ios compatible with the os desktop
> or will they do away with the desktop to make
> the new mac os like the ios?


*shudder*

I'd be back on FreeBSD in a couple of days.

It's Spotlight and the power management on portables that has me using
mac as my unix platform. OK, and iCloud Drive now.

Mess with those (and spotlight has seriously regressed over the last
ten years) and I'm gone.


-- 
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
(702) 508-8462

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Re: [off] Apple to unify ios/macos apps next year

[JB via use-livecode]

Is Apple going to have enough intelligence to
make the ios compatible with the os desktop
or will they do away with the desktop to make
the new mac os like the ios?

I have not been too impressed with Apple
lately.  If it is done right ti could be one of
the best things they have done in years.

JB


> On Dec 20, 2017, at 12:14 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-20/apple-is-said-to-have-plan-to-combine-iphone-ipad-and-mac-apps
> 
> -- 
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
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Re: [off] Apple to unify ios/macos apps next year

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Mike Kerner wrote:

> Both of my brothers use Surface laptops, even though they are both
> mac/ios lovers.

The latest Surface models are pretty awesome.  Even most of my Linux 
friends want one, if only it didn't have enough MC-specific firmware to 
make a Linux install difficult.  But no matter what OS a person enjoys 
most, I've never met anyone yet who spent time with a Surface and didn't 
lust after one.  Good design, well executed.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: [off] Apple to unify ios/macos apps next year

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Mark Wieder wrote:

> Now would probably be a good time to plan on jumping ship and
> switching to linux. Just sayin...

Dive in, the water's fine.

Anyone getting started using LC on Linux is encouraged to post questions 
you have along the way to the Linux section of the LC forums:


http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=20

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com


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Re: [off] Apple to unify ios/macos apps next year

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

Well, I jumped ship about 12 years ago: admittedly through financial 
necessity.


The other way I cope is by using an iMac that runs Mac OS 10.7.5 (apart 
from my PPC machines).


I do think that Apple's current obsession with producing fashion laptops 
for Paris Hilton lookalikes

is a big mistake and Steve must be revolving in his grave at high speed.

They may dumb their system down so much that they loose the small market 
share they have both with

a moronic interface as well as the exorbitant price of their hardware.

I do hope that, as well as Linux, other possibilities will come to the 
forefront (Haiku OS, anyone?)

to prevent Microsoft becoming even more monopolistic.

Richmond.

On 20/12/17 10:46 pm, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote:

On 12/20/2017 12:22 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:

Hi Mike,

Am 20.12.2017 um 21:14 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
:


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-20/apple-is-said-to-have-plan-to-combine-iphone-ipad-and-mac-apps 



yep, just read about this, will be a nightmare for the mothership
(and us LC developers) for sure!


Now would probably be a good time to plan on jumping ship and 
switching to linux. Just sayin...




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Re: [off] Apple to unify ios/macos apps next year

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

Both of my brothers use Surface laptops, even though they are both mac/ios
lovers.  Their reasoning comes in two complaints:  1) The surface lets them
annotate on the screen, pretty much any document they want, using the
stylus, and 2) even though they can now do similar things on the ipad, the
spreadsheet/word processing docs on the ipad aren't powerful enough, yet,
and have clunky controls.  Anyone who has tried to use an ipad for
spreadsheets can feel their pain.  So when I saw this announcement I
immediately thought macbook air with a touchscreen, and the ipad becomes
even more of a gaming/entertainment/personal TV/lives on the couch/content
consumption product and the macbook remains the desk/stand-up desk/train
content production product.

On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 3:46 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 12/20/2017 12:22 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>
>> Hi Mike,
>>
>> Am 20.12.2017 um 21:14 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:
>>>
>>> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-20/apple-is-
>>> said-to-have-plan-to-combine-iphone-ipad-and-mac-apps
>>>
>>
>> yep, just read about this, will be a nightmare for the mothership
>> (and us LC developers) for sure!
>>
>
> Now would probably be a good time to plan on jumping ship and switching to
> linux. Just sayin...
>
> --
>  Mark Wieder
>  ahsoftw...@gmail.com
>
>
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: [off] Apple to unify ios/macos apps next year

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 12/20/2017 12:22 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:

Hi Mike,


Am 20.12.2017 um 21:14 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-20/apple-is-said-to-have-plan-to-combine-iphone-ipad-and-mac-apps


yep, just read about this, will be a nightmare for the mothership
(and us LC developers) for sure!


Now would probably be a good time to plan on jumping ship and switching 
to linux. Just sayin...


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: [off] Apple to unify ios/macos apps next year

[Brian Milby via use-livecode]

Too soon to tell, but it could just be a way to more easily cross compile.
Currently apps can be designed with separate UI for tablet/phone, so this
would extend that to desktop too. Someone who has developed native code for
both could probably speculate how it would look and work.
On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 2:25 PM Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Does this mean that the Macintosh computer interface will look like an
> iPad, or the other
> way round?
>
> I have a feeling that Apple will sink their desktop and laptop market if
> they make it end
> up looking like an iPad with a keyboard.
>
> Richmond.
>
> On 20/12/17 10:22 pm, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> > Hi Mike,
> >
> >> Am 20.12.2017 um 21:14 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:
> >>
> >>
> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-20/apple-is-said-to-have-plan-to-combine-iphone-ipad-and-mac-apps
> > yep, just read about this, will be a nightmare for the mothership
> > (and us LC developers) for sure!
> >
> >
> > Best
> >
> > Klaus
> > --
> > Klaus Major
> > http://www.major-k.de
> > kl...@major-k.de
> >
> >
> > ___
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Re: [off] Apple to unify ios/macos apps next year

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

Does this mean that the Macintosh computer interface will look like an 
iPad, or the other

way round?

I have a feeling that Apple will sink their desktop and laptop market if 
they make it end

up looking like an iPad with a keyboard.

Richmond.

On 20/12/17 10:22 pm, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:

Hi Mike,


Am 20.12.2017 um 21:14 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-20/apple-is-said-to-have-plan-to-combine-iphone-ipad-and-mac-apps

yep, just read about this, will be a nightmare for the mothership
(and us LC developers) for sure!


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
http://www.major-k.de
kl...@major-k.de


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Re: [off] Apple to unify ios/macos apps next year

[Klaus major-k via use-livecode]

Hi Mike,

> Am 20.12.2017 um 21:14 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-20/apple-is-said-to-have-plan-to-combine-iphone-ipad-and-mac-apps

yep, just read about this, will be a nightmare for the mothership 
(and us LC developers) for sure! 


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
http://www.major-k.de
kl...@major-k.de


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[off] Apple to unify ios/macos apps next year

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-20/apple-is-said-to-have-plan-to-combine-iphone-ipad-and-mac-apps

-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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