Re: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
Thank you for speaking up, Richard. I could not agree more: deployment issues are a critical bottleneck that deserves immediate attention. Regards, Derek Bump On 10/13/23 12:46, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it wherever app deployment is discussed: OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous. At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so. There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it. If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers will run screaming. SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY. Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important. Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI". Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode". It is the single biggest pain point. And so it is the single biggest opportunity. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
I’ve stopped development of my Mac app because LiveCode does not support in-app purchases (ie, allowing me to get paid) and the deployment hassle is just not worth it for an app that has no way to make money. There is NO REASON for each developer to painfully figure out how to deploy apps when LiveCode could do it for everyone. Kee Nethery > On Oct 13, 2023, at 10:52 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode > wrote: > > Bravo, Richard, you are so right, bravo! > >> Am 13.10.2023 um 19:46 schrieb Richard Gaskin via use-livecode >> : >> >> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it wherever app >> deployment is discussed: >> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous. >> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so. >> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it. >> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers will >> run screaming. >> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY. >> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important. >> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI". >> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode". >> It is the single biggest pain point. >> And so it is the single biggest opportunity. >> Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying deployment. >> Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool. >> Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms. >> Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and take >> it, at least one more simplification with each new build. >> This is important. It really is. >> -- >> And no, web export will not magically save things. Even when that becomes >> truly production-ready, it's only for web apps. Not everything needs to be >> a web app. >> There are a hundred ways to make web apps. >> There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps. >> And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop. >> Play into strengths. Make native deployment the best it can be. >> When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features. >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Systems > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > kl...@major-k.de > > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
On 10/14/2023 7:12 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: Hi all, there is a way to export a Apple ID account including developer certificates and provisioning profiles at once using Xcode. See here https://dl.qck.nu/?dl=Transfer-Copy_Developer_Account_to_a_new_computer.pdf Regards, Matthias So for some time, I have only downloaded the "command Line Tools for XCode n.n" rather than the full Xcode install for two reasons: (1) To date, I thought I only needed the command line tools for code signing and notarization/stapling; and (2) to sage a couple GB of space The above is the first reason I have seen, if you are only developing with Livecode, to download the full Xcode install. Thank you. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
Hi all, there is a way to export a Apple ID account including developer certificates and provisioning profiles at once using Xcode. See here https://dl.qck.nu/?dl=Transfer-Copy_Developer_Account_to_a_new_computer.pdf Regards, Matthias > Am 14.10.2023 um 06:52 schrieb Mark Smith via use-livecode > : > > Re: The problem was getting my Apple code signing certificates AND related > certificates on to the MacBook air from the Apple Developer site, something I > don't think Livecode can really help with. > > Paul, just so I understand this problem better. Is there a reason why you > can’t just download your certificates from the Apple Developer site to your > MacBook Air? Do they specifically restrict downloading to only certain > devices? > > Mark > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Oct 13, 2023, at 9:02 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode >> wrote: >> >> I'd love to see versions of Livecode stacks that assist with code signing >> and notarization for as many platforms as possible (I am aware of stacks for >> Windows and macOS) built into Livecode. >> >> That said, for my two major problems (1 on macOS and 1 on Windows), I don't >> think there is anything Livecode could have done to help (other than >> lessons/documentation). >> >> On Windows my current certificate - a .pfx format code signing cert - is >> expiring in November, so I renewed it. However, as of June 1 2023, the >> Windows code signing industry moved to requiring all code signing >> certificates to be issued on an encrypted USB token and you must use >> specialized software (that 3rd party can not hook into to prevent malware) >> to access those tokens to code sign. >> >> On macOS, I needed to update code signing and NOTARIZATION to accommodate >> that Apple is switching to a new notary tool that only rns on new versions >> of macOS (I was using Mojave and atool) so I HAD (forced by Apple) for >> update to using the macBook Air I have that happened to have Sonoma on it >> and than meant Xcode 15 command line tools for the new Notary tool. atool >> stops being accepted by Apple some time in November so my old notarization >> steps will stop working. The change in notary tool was easy with Matthias's >> lessons and documentation on livecode.com. The problem was getting my Apple >> code signing certificates AND related certificates on to the MacBook air >> from the Apple Developer site, something I don't think Livecode can really >> help with. >> >> Yes, others have had still other issues some of which improvements in >> Livecode might help address, but for the two I ran into that I turned to the >> list for help for, they were ultimately nothing that I think Livecode could >> help with. >> >> Just my 2 cents on my 2 issues. >> >> >>> On 10/13/2023 1:46 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >>> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it wherever >>> app deployment is discussed: >>> >>> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous. >>> >>> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so. >>> >>> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it. >>> >>> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers will >>> run screaming. >>> >>> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY. >>> >>> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important. >>> >>> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI". >>> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode". >>> >>> It is the single biggest pain point. >>> >>> And so it is the single biggest opportunity. >>> >>> Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying deployment. >>> >>> Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool. >>> >>> Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms. >>> >>> Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and >>> take it, at least one more simplification with each new build. >>> >>> This is important. It really is. >>> >>> -- >>> >>> And no, web export will not magically save things. Even when that becomes >>> truly production-ready, it's only for web apps. Not everything needs to be >>> a web app. >>> >>> There are a hundred ways to make web apps. >>> >>> There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps. >>> >>> And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop. >>> >>> Play into strengths. Make native deployment the best it can be. >>> >>> When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features. >>> >> >> >> ___ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription >> preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe
Re: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
Perfect. I am sure I knew that at one point but had forgotten. Thank you for the reminder. Mark > On 14 Oct 2023, at 6:15 pm, Paul Dupuis wrote: > > On 10/14/2023 12:52 AM, Mark Smith wrote: >> Paul, just so I understand this problem better. Is there a reason why you >> can’t just download your certificates from the Apple Developer site to your >> MacBook Air? Do they specifically restrict downloading to only certain >> devices? > > If you download from the Apple Developer site, apparently only the public key > part of teh cert is downloaded. The private key, created on the machine you > did a Code SIgning Request on is on that machine and not the Apple Developer > site, which is why you need to either export and import between macs or > generate a new certificate. > > Panos answered this is another thread I started on this USE-LIST. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
Ah, that makes sense. Thanks Jacque > On 14 Oct 2023, at 5:16 pm, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode > wrote: > > The certificate is locked to a particular machine. You can either export it > from Keychain or create a new one. To create the certificate, the Mac must > submit a signing request, which I assume identifies the machine. > -- ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
On 10/14/2023 12:52 AM, Mark Smith wrote: Paul, just so I understand this problem better. Is there a reason why you can’t just download your certificates from the Apple Developer site to your MacBook Air? Do they specifically restrict downloading to only certain devices? If you download from the Apple Developer site, apparently only the public key part of teh cert is downloaded. The private key, created on the machine you did a Code SIgning Request on is on that machine and not the Apple Developer site, which is why you need to either export and import between macs or generate a new certificate. Panos answered this is another thread I started on this USE-LIST. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
The certificate is locked to a particular machine. You can either export it from Keychain or create a new one. To create the certificate, the Mac must submit a signing request, which I assume identifies the machine. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On October 13, 2023 11:54:39 PM Mark Smith via use-livecode wrote: Re: The problem was getting my Apple code signing certificates AND related certificates on to the MacBook air from the Apple Developer site, something I don't think Livecode can really help with. Paul, just so I understand this problem better. Is there a reason why you can’t just download your certificates from the Apple Developer site to your MacBook Air? Do they specifically restrict downloading to only certain devices? Mark Sent from my iPhone On Oct 13, 2023, at 9:02 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: I'd love to see versions of Livecode stacks that assist with code signing and notarization for as many platforms as possible (I am aware of stacks for Windows and macOS) built into Livecode. That said, for my two major problems (1 on macOS and 1 on Windows), I don't think there is anything Livecode could have done to help (other than lessons/documentation). On Windows my current certificate - a .pfx format code signing cert - is expiring in November, so I renewed it. However, as of June 1 2023, the Windows code signing industry moved to requiring all code signing certificates to be issued on an encrypted USB token and you must use specialized software (that 3rd party can not hook into to prevent malware) to access those tokens to code sign. On macOS, I needed to update code signing and NOTARIZATION to accommodate that Apple is switching to a new notary tool that only rns on new versions of macOS (I was using Mojave and atool) so I HAD (forced by Apple) for update to using the macBook Air I have that happened to have Sonoma on it and than meant Xcode 15 command line tools for the new Notary tool. atool stops being accepted by Apple some time in November so my old notarization steps will stop working. The change in notary tool was easy with Matthias's lessons and documentation on livecode.com. The problem was getting my Apple code signing certificates AND related certificates on to the MacBook air from the Apple Developer site, something I don't think Livecode can really help with. Yes, others have had still other issues some of which improvements in Livecode might help address, but for the two I ran into that I turned to the list for help for, they were ultimately nothing that I think Livecode could help with. Just my 2 cents on my 2 issues. On 10/13/2023 1:46 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it wherever app deployment is discussed: OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous. At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so. There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it. If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers will run screaming. SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY. Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important. Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI". Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode". It is the single biggest pain point. And so it is the single biggest opportunity. Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying deployment. Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool. Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms. Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and take it, at least one more simplification with each new build. This is important. It really is. -- And no, web export will not magically save things. Even when that becomes truly production-ready, it's only for web apps. Not everything needs to be a web app. There are a hundred ways to make web apps. There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps. And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop. Play into strengths. Make native deployment the best it can be. When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
Re: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
Re: The problem was getting my Apple code signing certificates AND related certificates on to the MacBook air from the Apple Developer site, something I don't think Livecode can really help with. Paul, just so I understand this problem better. Is there a reason why you can’t just download your certificates from the Apple Developer site to your MacBook Air? Do they specifically restrict downloading to only certain devices? Mark Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 13, 2023, at 9:02 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode > wrote: > > I'd love to see versions of Livecode stacks that assist with code signing > and notarization for as many platforms as possible (I am aware of stacks for > Windows and macOS) built into Livecode. > > That said, for my two major problems (1 on macOS and 1 on Windows), I don't > think there is anything Livecode could have done to help (other than > lessons/documentation). > > On Windows my current certificate - a .pfx format code signing cert - is > expiring in November, so I renewed it. However, as of June 1 2023, the > Windows code signing industry moved to requiring all code signing > certificates to be issued on an encrypted USB token and you must use > specialized software (that 3rd party can not hook into to prevent malware) to > access those tokens to code sign. > > On macOS, I needed to update code signing and NOTARIZATION to accommodate > that Apple is switching to a new notary tool that only rns on new versions of > macOS (I was using Mojave and atool) so I HAD (forced by Apple) for update to > using the macBook Air I have that happened to have Sonoma on it and than > meant Xcode 15 command line tools for the new Notary tool. atool stops being > accepted by Apple some time in November so my old notarization steps will > stop working. The change in notary tool was easy with Matthias's lessons and > documentation on livecode.com. The problem was getting my Apple code signing > certificates AND related certificates on to the MacBook air from the Apple > Developer site, something I don't think Livecode can really help with. > > Yes, others have had still other issues some of which improvements in > Livecode might help address, but for the two I ran into that I turned to the > list for help for, they were ultimately nothing that I think Livecode could > help with. > > Just my 2 cents on my 2 issues. > > >> On 10/13/2023 1:46 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it wherever app >> deployment is discussed: >> >> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous. >> >> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so. >> >> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it. >> >> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers will >> run screaming. >> >> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY. >> >> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important. >> >> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI". >> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode". >> >> It is the single biggest pain point. >> >> And so it is the single biggest opportunity. >> >> Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying deployment. >> >> Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool. >> >> Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms. >> >> Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and take >> it, at least one more simplification with each new build. >> >> This is important. It really is. >> >> -- >> >> And no, web export will not magically save things. Even when that becomes >> truly production-ready, it's only for web apps. Not everything needs to be >> a web app. >> >> There are a hundred ways to make web apps. >> >> There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps. >> >> And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop. >> >> Play into strengths. Make native deployment the best it can be. >> >> When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features. >> > > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
RE: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
Don't know why I didn't see Richard's post in my email, but +1 too. Bob S -Original Message- From: use-livecode On Behalf Of Klaus major-k via use-livecode Sent: Friday, October 13, 2023 10:53 AM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Klaus major-k Subject: Re: Deployment: a plea/opportunity Bravo, Richard, you are so right, bravo! > Am 13.10.2023 um 19:46 schrieb Richard Gaskin via use-livecode > : > > We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it wherever app > deployment is discussed: > OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous. > At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so. > There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it. > If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers will run > screaming. > SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY. > Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important. > Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI". > Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode". > It is the single biggest pain point. > And so it is the single biggest opportunity. > Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying deployment. > Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool. > Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms. > Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and take > it, at least one more simplification with each new build. > This is important. It really is. > -- > And no, web export will not magically save things. Even when that becomes > truly production-ready, it's only for web apps. Not everything needs to be a > web app. > There are a hundred ways to make web apps. > There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps. > And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop. > Play into strengths. Make native deployment the best it can be. > When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features. > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass kl...@major-k.de ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
On 10/13/23 12:46 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers will run screaming. I agree. But as a "pro" dev I'm embarrassed to admit that the problem I was having was of my own doing. Matthias' Helper tool is invaluable and I couldn't understand why it always worked before but didn't now. He took a look and found the problem. Actually, I had two problems, none of which LC could have solved. Problem 1: I was using a certificate for the wrong app. I wish I'd known what "no identity found" meant. I could have fixed it. Problem 2: (Stupid, stupid, stupid) I uploaded my app to Google Drive for download and forgot to zip it. Matthias found that it was corrupted when he tried to help (bless you, Matthias.) I have known forever that uncompressed files don't travel well but we had customers running Sonoma who were flooding the tech queue, and in the rush to get the thing out I forgot. And since I could run the original build on my own Mac, I couldn't figure out why no one else could open it. That said, it would be great if LC could create an .ipa for iOS and provide notarization/stapling services for Mac apps. It's a start. But honestly, that would only be of marginal help. The certificates, profiles, keystores, etc. can only be created by the developer, and that's mostly where the headaches begin. I used to be an enthusiastic Apple advocate but now I'm not so sure. Once you've seen the developer side your perceptions change. Google is only marginally easier these days too. I understand the security reasons for all the hassle, but that doesn't help when you're in the middle of it. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
I'd love to see versions of Livecode stacks that assist with code signing and notarization for as many platforms as possible (I am aware of stacks for Windows and macOS) built into Livecode. That said, for my two major problems (1 on macOS and 1 on Windows), I don't think there is anything Livecode could have done to help (other than lessons/documentation). On Windows my current certificate - a .pfx format code signing cert - is expiring in November, so I renewed it. However, as of June 1 2023, the Windows code signing industry moved to requiring all code signing certificates to be issued on an encrypted USB token and you must use specialized software (that 3rd party can not hook into to prevent malware) to access those tokens to code sign. On macOS, I needed to update code signing and NOTARIZATION to accommodate that Apple is switching to a new notary tool that only rns on new versions of macOS (I was using Mojave and atool) so I HAD (forced by Apple) for update to using the macBook Air I have that happened to have Sonoma on it and than meant Xcode 15 command line tools for the new Notary tool. atool stops being accepted by Apple some time in November so my old notarization steps will stop working. The change in notary tool was easy with Matthias's lessons and documentation on livecode.com. The problem was getting my Apple code signing certificates AND related certificates on to the MacBook air from the Apple Developer site, something I don't think Livecode can really help with. Yes, others have had still other issues some of which improvements in Livecode might help address, but for the two I ran into that I turned to the list for help for, they were ultimately nothing that I think Livecode could help with. Just my 2 cents on my 2 issues. On 10/13/2023 1:46 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it wherever app deployment is discussed: OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous. At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so. There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it. If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers will run screaming. SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY. Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important. Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI". Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode". It is the single biggest pain point. And so it is the single biggest opportunity. Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying deployment. Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool. Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms. Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and take it, at least one more simplification with each new build. This is important. It really is. -- And no, web export will not magically save things. Even when that becomes truly production-ready, it's only for web apps. Not everything needs to be a web app. There are a hundred ways to make web apps. There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps. And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop. Play into strengths. Make native deployment the best it can be. When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
+1 I obviously agree!I finally got my Mac app uploaded to the Mac Store (and approved)… but what a pain!!! There are SO many steps that could easily be done by LiveCode that they have chosen to omit. Simple things like generating the .ipa for iOS (this is a simple command line), having a place to enter the permission strings for Mac Desktop apps (this is a pain because you must build the app, then grab the generated plist, edit it, then include it in your app settings and then build it again. Not hard, but this is something LC should provide in the Application Settings Window. On that note, the “LSApplicationCategoryType” key (and category key) is not included in the generated plist. I had to add it manually. Apparently, this is now required. I’m sure the great minds at LC could find a way to sign your app if you have the correct files installed and “fill in the blanks”. They could probably do justified text too, but I won’t get into that!! :) Yes, this is hard to keep up with. But isn’t that the whole point of a product like LiveCode? The product is supposed to do the dirty work for you. Although usually at the last second… LC is pretty good when it comes to keeping up with requirements with Apple and Android when the problem causes you to not be able to submit to the app stores or OS incompatibilities. But in the case of the above examples, there are workarounds. So, you are on your own. -Dan From: use-livecode on behalf of Tom Glod via use-livecode Date: Friday, October 13, 2023 at 12:15 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Tom Glod Subject: Re: Deployment: a plea/opportunity 100% the biggest problem I have in my business. Have been stuck on iOS for months. Android and Windows is kind of OK, but still more can be done. Agree. Would pay for a solution that just works. On Fri, Oct 13, 2023 at 3:00 PM Mark Smith via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > +1, > > I totally agree this is really important (and really hard to keep up > with). But Apple should take some of the responsibility for this. With the > resources at their disposal they should be able to create a simpler and > easier way to execute deployment without sacrificing security and > authenticity. > > Very well said. I should add that I have also been using Kee Nethery’s > instructions for signing Mac apps and it has been a godsend. I have not > quite yet gotten to the point of deploying to the App Store (with it) but > that will be the next step. > > Mark > > > > On 13 Oct 2023, at 7:49 pm, William Prothero via use-livecode < > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > I second (3rd and 4th too) Richard's plea. Deployment is a killer. > > Bill > > > > William A. Prothero, PhD > > Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science > > University of California, Santa Barbara > > > >> On Oct 13, 2023, at 10:47 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it > wherever app deployment is discussed: > >> > >> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous. > >> > >> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so. > >> > >> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it. > >> > >> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers > will run screaming. > >> > >> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY. > >> > >> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important. > >> > >> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI". > >> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode". > >> > >> It is the single biggest pain point. > >> > >> And so it is the single biggest opportunity. > >> > >> Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying > deployment. > >> > >> Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool. > >> > >> Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms. > >> > >> Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and > take it, at least one more simplification with each new build. > >> > >> This is important. It really is. > >> > >> -- > >> > >> And no, web export will not magically save things. Even when that > becomes truly production-ready, it's only for web apps. Not everything > needs to be a web app. > >> > >> There are a hundred ways to make web apps. > >> > >> There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps. >
Re: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
100% the biggest problem I have in my business. Have been stuck on iOS for months. Android and Windows is kind of OK, but still more can be done. Agree. Would pay for a solution that just works. On Fri, Oct 13, 2023 at 3:00 PM Mark Smith via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > +1, > > I totally agree this is really important (and really hard to keep up > with). But Apple should take some of the responsibility for this. With the > resources at their disposal they should be able to create a simpler and > easier way to execute deployment without sacrificing security and > authenticity. > > Very well said. I should add that I have also been using Kee Nethery’s > instructions for signing Mac apps and it has been a godsend. I have not > quite yet gotten to the point of deploying to the App Store (with it) but > that will be the next step. > > Mark > > > > On 13 Oct 2023, at 7:49 pm, William Prothero via use-livecode < > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > I second (3rd and 4th too) Richard's plea. Deployment is a killer. > > Bill > > > > William A. Prothero, PhD > > Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science > > University of California, Santa Barbara > > > >> On Oct 13, 2023, at 10:47 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it > wherever app deployment is discussed: > >> > >> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous. > >> > >> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so. > >> > >> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it. > >> > >> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers > will run screaming. > >> > >> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY. > >> > >> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important. > >> > >> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI". > >> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode". > >> > >> It is the single biggest pain point. > >> > >> And so it is the single biggest opportunity. > >> > >> Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying > deployment. > >> > >> Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool. > >> > >> Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms. > >> > >> Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and > take it, at least one more simplification with each new build. > >> > >> This is important. It really is. > >> > >> -- > >> > >> And no, web export will not magically save things. Even when that > becomes truly production-ready, it's only for web apps. Not everything > needs to be a web app. > >> > >> There are a hundred ways to make web apps. > >> > >> There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps. > >> > >> And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop. > >> > >> Play into strengths. Make native deployment the best it can be. > >> > >> When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features. > >> > >> -- > >> Richard Gaskin > >> Fourth World Systems > >> > >> ___ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > ___ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
+1, I totally agree this is really important (and really hard to keep up with). But Apple should take some of the responsibility for this. With the resources at their disposal they should be able to create a simpler and easier way to execute deployment without sacrificing security and authenticity. Very well said. I should add that I have also been using Kee Nethery’s instructions for signing Mac apps and it has been a godsend. I have not quite yet gotten to the point of deploying to the App Store (with it) but that will be the next step. Mark > On 13 Oct 2023, at 7:49 pm, William Prothero via use-livecode > wrote: > > I second (3rd and 4th too) Richard's plea. Deployment is a killer. > Bill > > William A. Prothero, PhD > Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science > University of California, Santa Barbara > >> On Oct 13, 2023, at 10:47 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode >> wrote: >> >> We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it wherever >> app deployment is discussed: >> >> OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous. >> >> At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so. >> >> There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it. >> >> If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers will >> run screaming. >> >> SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY. >> >> Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important. >> >> Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI". >> Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode". >> >> It is the single biggest pain point. >> >> And so it is the single biggest opportunity. >> >> Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying deployment. >> >> Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool. >> >> Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms. >> >> Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and take >> it, at least one more simplification with each new build. >> >> This is important. It really is. >> >> -- >> >> And no, web export will not magically save things. Even when that becomes >> truly production-ready, it's only for web apps. Not everything needs to be >> a web app. >> >> There are a hundred ways to make web apps. >> >> There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps. >> >> And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop. >> >> Play into strengths. Make native deployment the best it can be. >> >> When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features. >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Systems >> >> ___ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription >> preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
I second (3rd and 4th too) Richard's plea. Deployment is a killer. Bill William A. Prothero, PhD Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science University of California, Santa Barbara > On Oct 13, 2023, at 10:47 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode > wrote: > > We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it wherever app > deployment is discussed: > > OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous. > > At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so. > > There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it. > > If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers will run > screaming. > > SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY. > > Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important. > > Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI". > Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode". > > It is the single biggest pain point. > > And so it is the single biggest opportunity. > > Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying deployment. > > Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool. > > Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms. > > Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and take > it, at least one more simplification with each new build. > > This is important. It really is. > > -- > > And no, web export will not magically save things. Even when that becomes > truly production-ready, it's only for web apps. Not everything needs to be a > web app. > > There are a hundred ways to make web apps. > > There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps. > > And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop. > > Play into strengths. Make native deployment the best it can be. > > When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Deployment: a plea/opportunity
Bravo, Richard, you are so right, bravo! > Am 13.10.2023 um 19:46 schrieb Richard Gaskin via use-livecode > : > > We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it wherever app > deployment is discussed: > OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous. > At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so. > There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it. > If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers will run > screaming. > SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY. > Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important. > Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI". > Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode". > It is the single biggest pain point. > And so it is the single biggest opportunity. > Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying deployment. > Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool. > Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms. > Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and take > it, at least one more simplification with each new build. > This is important. It really is. > -- > And no, web export will not magically save things. Even when that becomes > truly production-ready, it's only for web apps. Not everything needs to be a > web app. > There are a hundred ways to make web apps. > There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps. > And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop. > Play into strengths. Make native deployment the best it can be. > When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features. > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass kl...@major-k.de ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Deployment: a plea/opportunity
We see it here in this list. We see it in the forums. We see it wherever app deployment is discussed: OS requirements for packaging/stapling/signing apps are onerous. At the edge of, and sometimes exceeding, being prohibitively so. There's no point in making a standalone if you can't ship it. If pro devs with decades of experience struggle with this, newcomers will run screaming. SIMPLIFYING DEPLOYMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY. Pardon the all-caps. I rarely use them. But this is important. Simplifying deployment is more important than "AI". Simplifying deployment is more important than "nocode". It is the single biggest pain point. And so it is the single biggest opportunity. Fulfill the promise of "Everyone can code": focus on simplifying deployment. Step 1: Acquire Matthias' great tool. Step 2: Enhance it for current requirements across platforms. Step 3: Look for every opportunity to further simplify the process, and take it, at least one more simplification with each new build. This is important. It really is. -- And no, web export will not magically save things. Even when that becomes truly production-ready, it's only for web apps. Not everything needs to be a web app. There are a hundred ways to make web apps. There are few ways to make cross-platform native apps. And almost none that rival what LC can do on the desktop. Play into strengths. Make native deployment the best it can be. When that's done, only then resume work on more peripheral features. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
