Re: Enhanced HTTPD - native HTTP 1.1 Livecode Socket Server
Hi Richard - checking in again :) Yes I worked a lot with decentralised protocols and communities, and was looking to integrate those technologies with Livecode. That work got set back when Livecode pivoted away from FOSS. I believe there are still some approaches that can work but would probably be best done off list in a video call? On Wed, 28 Feb 2024 at 17:56, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > FWIW I haven't heard from David, but with the economic numbers off to a > good start this year I suspect he's just been as busy as most I know. > > I know of at least one other LC fan with an interest in decentralized > protocols, but I'm not sure how far he's gotten with his implementations. > I've mentioned LC in some of those circles, but those communities tend to > make and use FOSS tools, so the conversation is usually very short. > > Richard Gaskin > FourthWorld.com > > > > On February 28, 2024 at 9:00 AM, Mike Kerner wrote: > > > > just pinging to see if anything more has happened on this > > > > and the how list is really quiet > > > > On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 11:09?PM ambassador--- via use-livecode < > > > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > David Bovill wrote: > > > > > > I've been working for a while on a native server written in Livecode > > > using sockets. I feel it is definitely something that is sorely needed > > > - but to do it properly is more work that I initially thought. I need > > > to add HTTP 206 partial content support - > > > https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Status/206. I > expect > > > there to be other things that will need to be added. > > > Is anyone interested / need this? Or does anyone already have > something > > > they use? > > > > > MC shipped with a simple HTTPd example included, and many years ago back > > > > when Pierre was still active here I dusted it off to add support for > HTTP > > 1.1 so it would work with modern browsers: > > https://fourthworld.net/lc/mchttpd-4W.zip > > > > It's been years since I touched it, and IIRC the only other change I > made > > was to use callbacks for both ends of the network I/O (for some reason > > Raney had used callbacks only on one side, tho I can't recall if his was > on > > the write or read end). Callbacks for net I/O help a lot. > > > > If you're already far enough down the road to be thinking of 206 errors, > > there's likely nothing here you haven't already written. But as an > example > > (slightly updated) of the sort of thing that used to ship with old > versions > > to encourage exploration of network apps, it may be a fun trip down > memory > > lane. > > > > A question, if interesting to answer: one of the reasons I set this > aside > > was the beginning of a process of moving away from my own homegrown > tools > > for generic commodities like socket servers. Apache and Node cover most > of > > what I've needed since, and I don't have to maintain them, so I can focus > > on the stuff specific to my app. What are you working on these days? I > > stumbled across your chat with Ward Cunningham in the Full Moon > Happening > > just a few months ago; good stuff. Curious if your interest in > > decentralization is still a focus, and whether it also includes things > like > > IPSF and blockchains. Maybe offlist if it's not too LiveCodey is fine. > > > > Richard Gaskin > > FourthWorld.com > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Enhanced HTTPD - native HTTP 1.1 Livecode Socket Server
Hi Mike and Richard, the progress I’ve made is along the lines that Richard speaks to in the thread. I have added a little to the earlier work and bundled socket based servers - mainly by making it easy to add and remove logging with before and after handlers, and layers of back scripts that allow you to add your own custom middleware. There are a few things holding me back from plunging in further and finishing the work. Firstly, as Richard says still a way to go to add things like HTTP 206 partial content support, and there are already robust libraries in other languages out there - so the strategy of integrating Livecode with one of these is also attractive given the amount of effort required it’s a question in my head as too which route would be better pursued. I also have quite a nice integration with local node servers, which took quite a lot of tweaking as simply using shell() didn’t cut it - but now works well. However with this approach I don’t get the control I need from the Livecode side. There are also issues with socket requests and timeouts which would need to be debugged and while that is not a problem in itself, the underlying concern I’d have is that at the end of the process I’d find that the cause was a Livecode bug and not something in my code. There would be little I could do in that case other than hope and wait. Funny you came across the Full Moon Happening event as I’m currently working on a new version of that early experiment for March 25th this year (a full moon, penumbral lunar eclipse and wikis birthday - should be fun. If anyone’s in London this Friday March 15th, I’ll be doing an event at the RSA in the afternoon and Newspeak House in the evening where we’ll go into this in more detail. On Wed, 28 Feb 2024 at 13:55, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > just pinging to see if anything more has happened on this > and the how list is really quiet > > On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 11:09 PM ambassador--- via use-livecode < > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > David Bovill wrote: > > > > > I've been working for a while on a native server written in Livecode > > > using sockets. I feel it is definitely something that is sorely needed > > > - but to do it properly is more work that I initially thought. I need > > > to add HTTP 206 partial content support - > > > https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Status/206. I expect > > > there to be other things that will need to be added. > > > > > > Is anyone interested / need this? Or does anyone already have something > > > they use? > > > > > > MC shipped with a simple HTTPd example included, and many years ago back > > when Pierre was still active here I dusted it off to add support for HTTP > > 1.1 so it would work with modern browsers: > > > > https://fourthworld.net/lc/mchttpd-4W.zip > > > > It's been years since I touched it, and IIRC the only other change I made > > was to use callbacks for both ends of the network I/O (for some reason > > Raney had used callbacks only on one side, tho I can't recall if his was > on > > the write or read end). Callbacks for net I/O help a lot. > > > > If you're already far enough down the road to be thinking of 206 errors, > > there's likely nothing here you haven't already written. But as an > example > > (slightly updated) of the sort of thing that used to ship with old > versions > > to encourage exploration of network apps, it may be a fun trip down > memory > > lane. > > > > > > A question, if interesting to answer: one of the reasons I set this aside > > was the beginning of a process of moving away from my own homegrown tools > > for generic commodities like socket servers. Apache and Node cover most > of > > what I've needed since, and I don't have to maintain them, so I can focus > > on the stuff specific to my app. What are you working on these days? I > > stumbled across your chat with Ward Cunningham in the Full Moon Happening > > just a few months ago; good stuff. Curious if your interest in > > decentralization is still a focus, and whether it also includes things > like > > IPSF and blockchains. Maybe offlist if it's not too LiveCodey is fine. > > > > > > Richard Gaskin > > FourthWorld.com > > > > ___ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: >
Re: Enhanced HTTPD - native HTTP 1.1 Livecode Socket Server
FWIW I haven't heard from David, but with the economic numbers off to a good start this year I suspect he's just been as busy as most I know. I know of at least one other LC fan with an interest in decentralized protocols, but I'm not sure how far he's gotten with his implementations. I've mentioned LC in some of those circles, but those communities tend to make and use FOSS tools, so the conversation is usually very short. Richard Gaskin FourthWorld.com On February 28, 2024 at 9:00 AM, Mike Kerner wrote: > > just pinging to see if anything more has happened on this > > and the how list is really quiet > > On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 11:09?PM ambassador--- via use-livecode < > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > David Bovill wrote: > > > > I've been working for a while on a native server written in Livecode > > using sockets. I feel it is definitely something that is sorely needed > > - but to do it properly is more work that I initially thought. I need > > to add HTTP 206 partial content support - > > https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Status/206. I expect > > there to be other things that will need to be added. > > Is anyone interested / need this? Or does anyone already have something > > they use? > > > MC shipped with a simple HTTPd example included, and many years ago back > > when Pierre was still active here I dusted it off to add support for HTTP > 1.1 so it would work with modern browsers: > https://fourthworld.net/lc/mchttpd-4W.zip > > It's been years since I touched it, and IIRC the only other change I made > was to use callbacks for both ends of the network I/O (for some reason > Raney had used callbacks only on one side, tho I can't recall if his was on > the write or read end). Callbacks for net I/O help a lot. > > If you're already far enough down the road to be thinking of 206 errors, > there's likely nothing here you haven't already written. But as an example > (slightly updated) of the sort of thing that used to ship with old versions > to encourage exploration of network apps, it may be a fun trip down memory > lane. > > A question, if interesting to answer: one of the reasons I set this aside > was the beginning of a process of moving away from my own homegrown tools > for generic commodities like socket servers. Apache and Node cover most of > what I've needed since, and I don't have to maintain them, so I can focus > on the stuff specific to my app. What are you working on these days? I > stumbled across your chat with Ward Cunningham in the Full Moon Happening > just a few months ago; good stuff. Curious if your interest in > decentralization is still a focus, and whether it also includes things like > IPSF and blockchains. Maybe offlist if it's not too LiveCodey is fine. > > Richard Gaskin > FourthWorld.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Enhanced HTTPD - native HTTP 1.1 Livecode Socket Server
just pinging to see if anything more has happened on this and the how list is really quiet On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 11:09 PM ambassador--- via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > David Bovill wrote: > > > I've been working for a while on a native server written in Livecode > > using sockets. I feel it is definitely something that is sorely needed > > - but to do it properly is more work that I initially thought. I need > > to add HTTP 206 partial content support - > > https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Status/206. I expect > > there to be other things that will need to be added. > > > > Is anyone interested / need this? Or does anyone already have something > > they use? > > > MC shipped with a simple HTTPd example included, and many years ago back > when Pierre was still active here I dusted it off to add support for HTTP > 1.1 so it would work with modern browsers: > > https://fourthworld.net/lc/mchttpd-4W.zip > > It's been years since I touched it, and IIRC the only other change I made > was to use callbacks for both ends of the network I/O (for some reason > Raney had used callbacks only on one side, tho I can't recall if his was on > the write or read end). Callbacks for net I/O help a lot. > > If you're already far enough down the road to be thinking of 206 errors, > there's likely nothing here you haven't already written. But as an example > (slightly updated) of the sort of thing that used to ship with old versions > to encourage exploration of network apps, it may be a fun trip down memory > lane. > > > A question, if interesting to answer: one of the reasons I set this aside > was the beginning of a process of moving away from my own homegrown tools > for generic commodities like socket servers. Apache and Node cover most of > what I've needed since, and I don't have to maintain them, so I can focus > on the stuff specific to my app. What are you working on these days? I > stumbled across your chat with Ward Cunningham in the Full Moon Happening > just a few months ago; good stuff. Curious if your interest in > decentralization is still a focus, and whether it also includes things like > IPSF and blockchains. Maybe offlist if it's not too LiveCodey is fine. > > > Richard Gaskin > FourthWorld.com > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Enhanced HTTPD - native HTTP 1.1 Livecode Socket Server
David Bovill wrote: > I've been working for a while on a native server written in Livecode > using sockets. I feel it is definitely something that is sorely needed > - but to do it properly is more work that I initially thought. I need > to add HTTP 206 partial content support - > https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Status/206. I expect > there to be other things that will need to be added. > > Is anyone interested / need this? Or does anyone already have something > they use? MC shipped with a simple HTTPd example included, and many years ago back when Pierre was still active here I dusted it off to add support for HTTP 1.1 so it would work with modern browsers: https://fourthworld.net/lc/mchttpd-4W.zip It's been years since I touched it, and IIRC the only other change I made was to use callbacks for both ends of the network I/O (for some reason Raney had used callbacks only on one side, tho I can't recall if his was on the write or read end). Callbacks for net I/O help a lot. If you're already far enough down the road to be thinking of 206 errors, there's likely nothing here you haven't already written. But as an example (slightly updated) of the sort of thing that used to ship with old versions to encourage exploration of network apps, it may be a fun trip down memory lane. A question, if interesting to answer: one of the reasons I set this aside was the beginning of a process of moving away from my own homegrown tools for generic commodities like socket servers. Apache and Node cover most of what I've needed since, and I don't have to maintain them, so I can focus on the stuff specific to my app. What are you working on these days? I stumbled across your chat with Ward Cunningham in the Full Moon Happening just a few months ago; good stuff. Curious if your interest in decentralization is still a focus, and whether it also includes things like IPSF and blockchains. Maybe offlist if it's not too LiveCodey is fine. Richard Gaskin FourthWorld.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Enhanced HTTPD - native HTTP 1.1 Livecode Socket Server
Hey David, I am quite interested in this. Just last night I was working on setting up a Linux distro with Desktop, and Ubuntu with XFCE desktop. Everything seems to be running OK, except for some permissions issues. I have also beaten reworking my multi-core library, so I'd be super curious to test that with your library. Perhaps this is an ignorant question, but what is different about the HTTPD library that is currently part of LC? is it the http version? Thanks, Tom On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 10:57 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > testing? no, for deployment. > our newest app could use http sockets to persist comms with our REST > server, instead of using long timeouts or pinging the server every few > seconds for updates. > > On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 2:29 AM David Bovill via use-livecode < > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > For testing mobile apps in development? I'm using it for an > electron-style > > app, and may also use it for container based microservices. > > > > On Tue, 6 Feb 2024 at 00:48, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > i don't use lc as a server (but maybe i should think about it). i use > it > > to > > > write mobile apps, so i could use http sockets on the client side. > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 3:19 PM David Bovill via use-livecode < > > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > > > I've been working for a while on a native server written in Livecode > > > using > > > > sockets. I feel it is definitely something that is sorely needed - > but > > to > > > > do it properly is more work that I initially thought. I need to add > > HTTP > > > > 206 partial content support - > > > > https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Status/206. I > expect > > > > there to be other things that will need to be added. > > > > > > > > Is anyone interested / need this? Or does anyone already have > something > > > > they use? > > > > ___ > > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > > subscription preferences: > > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > >and did a little diving. > > > And God said, "This is good." > > > ___ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > ___ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Enhanced HTTPD - native HTTP 1.1 Livecode Socket Server
testing? no, for deployment. our newest app could use http sockets to persist comms with our REST server, instead of using long timeouts or pinging the server every few seconds for updates. On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 2:29 AM David Bovill via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > For testing mobile apps in development? I'm using it for an electron-style > app, and may also use it for container based microservices. > > On Tue, 6 Feb 2024 at 00:48, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > i don't use lc as a server (but maybe i should think about it). i use it > to > > write mobile apps, so i could use http sockets on the client side. > > > > On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 3:19 PM David Bovill via use-livecode < > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > I've been working for a while on a native server written in Livecode > > using > > > sockets. I feel it is definitely something that is sorely needed - but > to > > > do it properly is more work that I initially thought. I need to add > HTTP > > > 206 partial content support - > > > https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Status/206. I expect > > > there to be other things that will need to be added. > > > > > > Is anyone interested / need this? Or does anyone already have something > > > they use? > > > ___ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > >and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > ___ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Enhanced HTTPD - native HTTP 1.1 Livecode Socket Server
For testing mobile apps in development? I'm using it for an electron-style app, and may also use it for container based microservices. On Tue, 6 Feb 2024 at 00:48, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > i don't use lc as a server (but maybe i should think about it). i use it to > write mobile apps, so i could use http sockets on the client side. > > On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 3:19 PM David Bovill via use-livecode < > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > I've been working for a while on a native server written in Livecode > using > > sockets. I feel it is definitely something that is sorely needed - but to > > do it properly is more work that I initially thought. I need to add HTTP > > 206 partial content support - > > https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Status/206. I expect > > there to be other things that will need to be added. > > > > Is anyone interested / need this? Or does anyone already have something > > they use? > > ___ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Enhanced HTTPD - native HTTP 1.1 Livecode Socket Server
i don't use lc as a server (but maybe i should think about it). i use it to write mobile apps, so i could use http sockets on the client side. On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 3:19 PM David Bovill via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I've been working for a while on a native server written in Livecode using > sockets. I feel it is definitely something that is sorely needed - but to > do it properly is more work that I initially thought. I need to add HTTP > 206 partial content support - > https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Status/206. I expect > there to be other things that will need to be added. > > Is anyone interested / need this? Or does anyone already have something > they use? > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Enhanced HTTPD - native HTTP 1.1 Livecode Socket Server
I've been working for a while on a native server written in Livecode using sockets. I feel it is definitely something that is sorely needed - but to do it properly is more work that I initially thought. I need to add HTTP 206 partial content support - https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Status/206. I expect there to be other things that will need to be added. Is anyone interested / need this? Or does anyone already have something they use? ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
