Re: OT: mails bouncing back?
Pete wrote: I got caught in this web a couple of years back (I think it was with GoDaddy). Here's the problem I have with the blacklist sites. Their blanket blackballing of servers means that the 99% of users who are using it for genuine, non-spam emails get dumped on for the sins of the 1%. Personally, I sgtrongly object to having my genuine emails blocked in this fashion. It's illegal to tamper with the US Mail and it should be illegal to block the delivery of genuine email as well. I've had domains caught up with sloppy blacklisting schemes myself. It's not a problem with RunRev, or their host, but with the lazy nature of a few blacklisting systems. rant Worse, the sloppiest blacklisters are also the most difficult to try to reason with once your machine falls onto their list. The arrogance I encountered dealing with them was beyond the most rude behavior I've seen in any other context. Living as they do in a world of false assumptions, they (at least at the time I tried to deal with them) seem to regard all request as spammers trying to get a free pass in their system, completely oblivious to the most patient and reasoned explanations of their error. They seem to presume that such an inherently faulty method is somehow beyond the ability to ever result in a false-positive, in spite of countless articles across the web explaining how that's the case, indulging themselves in the fantasy of playing some sort of romantic vigilante role, protecting the world from evildoers even if it means killing thousands of legitimate emails along the way. If you're complaining you must be a spammer! Hey, it's just collateral damage in the noble fight against spam! You gotta be willing to break a few eggs if you want to make an omelette! Freedom isn't free! Ignorance is strength! They're welcome to prove me wrong at any time: 1. Stop being rude to innocent people trapped by the broken system 2. Fix the broken system /rant -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: OT: mails bouncing back?
On Apr 3, 2012, at 7:19 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: I've had domains caught up with sloppy blacklisting schemes myself. It's not a problem with RunRev, or their host, but with the lazy nature of a few blacklisting systems. Actually, in this case, it is their host. GoDaddy needs to tighten up their secureserver.net environment to eliminate the spamming that occurs. Their servers are high on the list of even the most legitimate blacklist maintainers (Barracuda, for instance). This was one of the driving forces behind our moving to a VPS instead of using their shared plans. Costs extra, but no issues of this type (and they still maintain the HW). Tim ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: OT: mails bouncing back?
Tim Jones wrote: On Apr 3, 2012, at 7:19 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: I've had domains caught up with sloppy blacklisting schemes myself. It's not a problem with RunRev, or their host, but with the lazy nature of a few blacklisting systems. Actually, in this case, it is their host. GoDaddy needs to tighten up their secureserver.net environment to eliminate the spamming that occurs. Their servers are high on the list of even the most legitimate blacklist maintainers (Barracuda, for instance). I'm no fan of GoDaddy so it wouldn't surprise me if they've been willing to turn a blind eye to illegal activity to maintain that income until they're absolutely forced to do the right thing. They wouldn't be alone on this: a few years ago it was well known that some 30% of global spam was originating from three regions in Florida, but neither the feds nor the downstream providers did anything to enforce the law. Ultimately a few upstream providers got tired of carrying all that wasteful traffic and blocked it all in the backbone themselves, only after which the feds finally decided to show up for work and make an arrest. The local hosts never explained why they'd never taken care of it themselves, and sadly the reprieve was short-lived as that traffic eventually moved to the Ukraine, where it flourishes in an apparently lawless environment today. But back on topic: Blocking entire IP ranges is not a responsible way to blacklist, since it can - an inevitably does - affect legitimate users. It's simply lazy, a ham-fisted scorched-earth way to solve a problem that requires more surgical methods. In fact, it seems On-Rev.com may be a very good example of how this gets out of hand so easily, since AFAIK their servers aren't on GoDaddy at all, but on SoftLayer: http://on-rev.com/hosting/our-data-center/ And even if some accounts were host by GoDaddy, unless those specific servers are used for illegal activity there's no excuse for any responsible blacklisting service to block them. Spam is indeed a serious problem, but when attempts to stop it shut down legitimate businesses the cure is every bit as bad as the problem itself, arguably worse. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: OT: mails bouncing back?
On Apr 3, 2012, at 8:40 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Blocking entire IP ranges is not a responsible way to blacklist, since it can - an inevitably does - affect legitimate users. It's simply lazy, a ham-fisted scorched-earth way to solve a problem that requires more surgical methods. In fact, it seems On-Rev.com may be a very good example of how this gets out of hand so easily, since AFAIK their servers aren't on GoDaddy at all, but on SoftLayer: http://on-rev.com/hosting/our-data-center/ And even if some accounts were host by GoDaddy, unless those specific servers are used for illegal activity there's no excuse for any responsible blacklisting service to block them. In the case of secureserver.net, the blacklists don't block on the IP in this case, but on the domain. That's why you don't have issues with your OnRev site, but only with mail sent FROM the site. The idea is to cause enough pain for GoDaddy to get something done. I don't like it or agree with it, but I can see the logic… As for GoDaddy otherwise, we've had a very successful run with them for over 5 years since we moved to the VPS structure. It's great to be in complete control of our server with none of the maintenance headaches. We even run a BRU Server client on the VPS and backup everything as part of our normal, daily corporate backups. Tim ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: OT: mails bouncing back?
What Richard said! However, it's ironic that I became aware of Livecode through one of these blacklistsing incidents. I was a memebre of a forum for one of the blacklisting sites and Heather put a post on there becaue the RunRev serevers were blacklisted there too. We exchanged emails about the problem, I noticed the product and bought it. So sometimes, there really are silver linings! Pete On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 8:40 AM, Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.comwrote: Tim Jones wrote: On Apr 3, 2012, at 7:19 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: I've had domains caught up with sloppy blacklisting schemes myself. It's not a problem with RunRev, or their host, but with the lazy nature of a few blacklisting systems. Actually, in this case, it is their host. GoDaddy needs to tighten up their secureserver.net environment to eliminate the spamming that occurs. Their servers are high on the list of even the most legitimate blacklist maintainers (Barracuda, for instance). I'm no fan of GoDaddy so it wouldn't surprise me if they've been willing to turn a blind eye to illegal activity to maintain that income until they're absolutely forced to do the right thing. They wouldn't be alone on this: a few years ago it was well known that some 30% of global spam was originating from three regions in Florida, but neither the feds nor the downstream providers did anything to enforce the law. Ultimately a few upstream providers got tired of carrying all that wasteful traffic and blocked it all in the backbone themselves, only after which the feds finally decided to show up for work and make an arrest. The local hosts never explained why they'd never taken care of it themselves, and sadly the reprieve was short-lived as that traffic eventually moved to the Ukraine, where it flourishes in an apparently lawless environment today. But back on topic: Blocking entire IP ranges is not a responsible way to blacklist, since it can - an inevitably does - affect legitimate users. It's simply lazy, a ham-fisted scorched-earth way to solve a problem that requires more surgical methods. In fact, it seems On-Rev.com may be a very good example of how this gets out of hand so easily, since AFAIK their servers aren't on GoDaddy at all, but on SoftLayer: http://on-rev.com/hosting/**our-data-center/http://on-rev.com/hosting/our-data-center/ And even if some accounts were host by GoDaddy, unless those specific servers are used for illegal activity there's no excuse for any responsible blacklisting service to block them. Spam is indeed a serious problem, but when attempts to stop it shut down legitimate businesses the cure is every bit as bad as the problem itself, arguably worse. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/**blog.irvhttp://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv __**_ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecodehttp://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Pete Molly's Revenge http://www.mollysrevenge.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
OT: mails bouncing back?
Hi friends, in the last weeks some of my mails bounced back from different email addresses due to the sending MTA's poor reputation? ... This message was created automatically by mail delivery software. A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed: x...@.com SMTP error from remote mail server after initial connection: host smtp.secureserver.net [216.69.186.201]: 554-m1pismtp01-002.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net 554 Your access to this mail system has been rejected due to the sending MTA's poor reputation. ... . My web and email hoster is RunRev (on-rev). So my hoster has a bad reputation? If yes, how come? What can I do? Can anyone tell me who is to blame here, I plea not guilty!? :-D Thanks in advance! Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de kl...@major.on-rev.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: OT: mails bouncing back?
Klaus- Monday, April 2, 2012, 8:22:44 AM, you wrote: My web and email hoster is RunRev (on-rev). So my hoster has a bad reputation? If yes, how come? What can I do? Can anyone tell me who is to blame here, I plea not guilty!? :-D I no longer use the on-rev smtp server because of this problem. Use your local isp's smtp server instead. -- -Mark Wieder mwie...@ahsoftware.net ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: OT: mails bouncing back?
Do you have your own domain set up with on-rev? If so, then you need to contact the blacklist organizations and find out what the gripe was. Then you can contact them via a form they have and request that you be removed, but if the problem still persists, the problem will recur. Are you sending out a lot of email from your domain as a kind of spam? If so, then you should consider using a separate domain for this for obvious reasons. Also, find out what is blacklisted, your IP or your domain. If your domain then someone may have hijacked it for smtp. If your IP then it's pretty clear that something at On-Rev has gotten compromised, but I seriously doubt that, unless it's a web site someone is maintaining there. That needs to be addressed with the On-Rev support people. Once you resolve the issue, contact the blacklist sites, let them know what you have done to resolve the issue, and they should unblock your domain/IP. Everyone gets at least one freebie, so get it right. Bob On Apr 2, 2012, at 8:31 AM, Mark Wieder wrote: Klaus- Monday, April 2, 2012, 8:22:44 AM, you wrote: My web and email hoster is RunRev (on-rev). So my hoster has a bad reputation? If yes, how come? What can I do? Can anyone tell me who is to blame here, I plea not guilty!? :-D I no longer use the on-rev smtp server because of this problem. Use your local isp's smtp server instead. -- -Mark Wieder mwie...@ahsoftware.net ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: OT: mails bouncing back?
Hi Bob, Am 02.04.2012 um 19:02 schrieb Bob Sneidar: Do you have your own domain set up with on-rev? Yep. If so, then you need to contact the blacklist organizations and find out what the gripe was. Then you can contact them via a form they have and request that you be removed, but if the problem still persists, the problem will recur. Are you sending out a lot of email from your domain as a kind of spam? Not at all! :-/ If so, then you should consider using a separate domain for this for obvious reasons. Also, find out what is blacklisted, your IP or your domain. If your domain then someone may have hijacked it for smtp. If your IP then it's pretty clear that something at On-Rev has gotten compromised, but I seriously doubt that, unless it's a web site someone is maintaining there. That needs to be addressed with the On-Rev support people. Once you resolve the issue, contact the blacklist sites, let them know what you have done to resolve the issue, and they should unblock your domain/IP. Everyone gets at least one freebie, so get it right. Thanks for the hints! Bob On Apr 2, 2012, at 8:31 AM, Mark Wieder wrote: Klaus- Monday, April 2, 2012, 8:22:44 AM, you wrote: My web and email hoster is RunRev (on-rev). So my hoster has a bad reputation? If yes, how come? What can I do? Can anyone tell me who is to blame here, I plea not guilty!? :-D I no longer use the on-rev smtp server because of this problem. Use your local isp's smtp server instead. Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de kl...@major.on-rev.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: OT: mails bouncing back?
It appears that OnRev uses GoDaddy services as the secureserver.net servers belong to them. Because of GoDaddy's easy online setup, spammers / scammers are able to pop in, perform a hit-and-run with their mail broadcast, and the security team doesn't catch it and disable the account into it's already a problem. It sounds to me like RunRev should examine alternate mail service providers for the OnRev solution since secureserver.net is very deeply entrenched in the blacklists. Tim . On Apr 2, 2012, at 8:31 AM, Mark Wieder wrote: Klaus- Monday, April 2, 2012, 8:22:44 AM, you wrote: My web and email hoster is RunRev (on-rev). So my hoster has a bad reputation? If yes, how come? What can I do? Can anyone tell me who is to blame here, I plea not guilty!? :-D I no longer use the on-rev smtp server because of this problem. Use your local isp's smtp server instead. -- -Mark Wieder mwie...@ahsoftware.net ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: OT: mails bouncing back?
Nice to know Tim good catch! Bob On Apr 2, 2012, at 10:29 AM, Tim Jones wrote: It appears that OnRev uses GoDaddy services as the secureserver.net servers belong to them. Because of GoDaddy's easy online setup, spammers / scammers are able to pop in, perform a hit-and-run with their mail broadcast, and the security team doesn't catch it and disable the account into it's already a problem. It sounds to me like RunRev should examine alternate mail service providers for the OnRev solution since secureserver.net is very deeply entrenched in the blacklists. Tim . On Apr 2, 2012, at 8:31 AM, Mark Wieder wrote: Klaus- Monday, April 2, 2012, 8:22:44 AM, you wrote: My web and email hoster is RunRev (on-rev). So my hoster has a bad reputation? If yes, how come? What can I do? Can anyone tell me who is to blame here, I plea not guilty!? :-D I no longer use the on-rev smtp server because of this problem. Use your local isp's smtp server instead. -- -Mark Wieder mwie...@ahsoftware.net ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: OT: mails bouncing back?
I got caught in this web a couple of years back (I think it was with GoDaddy). Here's the problem I have with the blacklist sites. Their blanket blackballing of servers means that the 99% of users who are using it for genuine, non-spam emails get dumped on for the sins of the 1%. Personally, I sgtrongly object to having my genuine emails blocked in this fashion. It's illegal to tamper with the US Mail and it should be illegal to block the delivery of genuine email as well. End of rant! Pete On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 10:29 AM, Tim Jones tolis...@me.com wrote: It appears that OnRev uses GoDaddy services as the secureserver.net servers belong to them. Because of GoDaddy's easy online setup, spammers / scammers are able to pop in, perform a hit-and-run with their mail broadcast, and the security team doesn't catch it and disable the account into it's already a problem. It sounds to me like RunRev should examine alternate mail service providers for the OnRev solution since secureserver.net is very deeply entrenched in the blacklists. Tim . On Apr 2, 2012, at 8:31 AM, Mark Wieder wrote: Klaus- Monday, April 2, 2012, 8:22:44 AM, you wrote: My web and email hoster is RunRev (on-rev). So my hoster has a bad reputation? If yes, how come? What can I do? Can anyone tell me who is to blame here, I plea not guilty!? :-D I no longer use the on-rev smtp server because of this problem. Use your local isp's smtp server instead. -- -Mark Wieder mwie...@ahsoftware.net ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Pete Molly's Revenge http://www.mollysrevenge.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: OT: mails bouncing back?
Tim Jones tolistim@... writes: It appears that OnRev uses GoDaddy services as the secureserver.net servers belong to them. Because of GoDaddy's easy online setup, spammers / scammers are able to pop in, perform a hit-and-run with their mail broadcast, and the security team doesn't catch it and disable the account into it's already a problem. It sounds to me like RunRev should examine alternate mail service providers for the OnRev solution since secureserver.net is very deeply entrenched in the blacklists. Tim- That's exactly the problem. Using blacklists to control spam is a brute-force lowest-common-denominator approach. Unfortunately, everyone uses one of a handful of blacklist servers. It's very difficult to get an IP address off the list and very easy to get on. The short-term solution is to configure your email client to use your local smtp server instead of on-rev's. The long-term solution is, as you said, for runrev to select a different domain service. Since further development work on the on-rev hosting platform is unlikely, the long-term solution then is the same as the short-term solution. -- Mark Wieder ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
