Re: LiveCode Server - where to start?
Thanks, both of you. I almost never log into my account, I always download directly from the public download page, so I assumed all available builds were there. It's odd that the commercial edition of the IDE/engine is listed there but not the commercial edition of server. On 7/7/2015 4:01 PM, Ralph DiMola wrote: I you go to the classic account page the commercial server download link is there along with the username and password. I just downloaded it a month ago so I could use password protected library stacks. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdim...@evergreeninfo.net -Original Message- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Peter TB Brett Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2015 3:45 PM To: How to use LiveCode Subject: Re: LiveCode Server - where to start? On 2015-07-07 19:32, J. Landman Gay wrote: On 7/7/2015 11:45 AM, Graham Samuel wrote: Richard, you are always so generous with your advice and your time! Thanks, that helps a lot. I still need to understand a lot more, but it’s a flying start. Actually, knowing your situation, LC server can't be used because there is no commercial version. You'll need to implement the old-style CGI system. I'll write to you privately, but wanted to short-stop any efforts before you spent too much time on it. LC server is a wonderful utility but in this case the lack of commercial support is a blocker for you. There is, in fact, a commercial version of LiveCode server available. Please contact LiveCode support with the details of your subscriber account; they'll be able to hook you up. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett peter.br...@livecode.com LiveCode Engine Development Team ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: LiveCode Server - where to start?
On Jul 8, 2015, at 12:24 PM, J. Landman Gay jac...@hyperactivesw.com wrote: Thanks, both of you. I almost never log into my account, I always download directly from the public download page, so I assumed all available builds were there. It's odd that the commercial edition of the IDE/engine is listed there but not the commercial edition of server. Perhaps because there is no license validation step when installing Server. So LC restricts download access to users with a current subscription. D Devin Asay Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young University ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: LiveCode Server - where to start?
Crazy ideas can be true too :-) On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 12:25 PM Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.com wrote: J. Landman Gay wrote: You and Richard both came up with the same thought so it must be true. :) By itself that's no indicator of truth. After all, Devin and I have a few crazy ideas in common. :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: LiveCode Server - where to start?
J. Landman Gay wrote: You and Richard both came up with the same thought so it must be true. :) By itself that's no indicator of truth. After all, Devin and I have a few crazy ideas in common. :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: LiveCode Server - where to start?
J. Landman Gay wrote: I almost never log into my account, I always download directly from the public download page, so I assumed all available builds were there. It's odd that the commercial edition of the IDE/engine is listed there but not the commercial edition of server. I'd guess it's just a matter of ROI: most uses cases for LC Server are well satisfied by the Community edition, and since Server is a command-line-only app, they'd need to come up with some special scheme in that engine build to handle licence enforcement. So instead they just put the license enforcement in the Web site's account page, and only a very small handful of people ever need it anyway so it seems a prudent use of their time. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: LiveCode Server - where to start?
On 7/8/2015 1:31 PM, Devin Asay wrote: On Jul 8, 2015, at 12:24 PM, J. Landman Gay jac...@hyperactivesw.com wrote: Thanks, both of you. I almost never log into my account, I always download directly from the public download page, so I assumed all available builds were there. It's odd that the commercial edition of the IDE/engine is listed there but not the commercial edition of server. Perhaps because there is no license validation step when installing Server. So LC restricts download access to users with a current subscription. That makes sense. You and Richard both came up with the same thought so it must be true. :) -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: LiveCode Server - where to start?
Well, no, since I have been planning to implement this since April, and already regard the delay (entirely caused by me so far) as pretty bad news. I will love HTML5 deployment when it comes out, but it would not be sensible to hold my breath on that one; and even then I may need intensive tutorials about how to code a web site using tools that don’t take me too far out of my comfort zone. I have had some experience of such tools and have retreated to using very very simple web site construction software where the height of sophistication is a PayPal ‘Buy Now’ button. Cheers Graham On 7 Jul 2015, at 16:38, Paul Richards p...@smarttsoftware.co.uk wrote: Hi Graham, The HTML project is probably what you are looking for http://livecode.com/ready-html5-deployment-for-livecode-announced/ Regards Paul -Original Message- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Graham Samuel Sent: 07 July 2015 15:30 To: How to use LiveCode Subject: LiveCode Server - where to start? Hi Although my experience of LiveCode scripting and the production of standalones is pretty extensive, I have never used any manifestation of LiveCode Server, but now I want to back a web site with in effect some LiveCode functionality and to communicate with users of the site (for example respond to a form a user may have filled in by emailing the user with derived data, while somehow retaining the info the user put into the form - I am hoping against hope that this doesn’t mean using a database as I don’t know anything about those either). The learning problem seems to me that this is a moving target in that quite big changes have been made to this incarnation of LiveCode over the years. Looking at the LC web site, the variety of dates of the tutorial info about this is quite worrying - there doesn’t seem to me to be a modern (i.e less than a year old) tutorial about how to set up a server that runs LC stacks, plus an explanation of what can and can’t be done after the install has happened. Also I sense that On-Rev (I have access) is the simplest way of doing this as a lot of stuff is pre-installed, but if I have server space elsewhere (I do) what I have to do to get a robust implementation? You can probably tell from the above that I don’t even know the correct jargon to use when talking about these issues. Can anyone point me at a tutorial or any other method of getting familiar with this stuff, as I really need it? TIA Graham ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: LiveCode Server - where to start?
Richard, you are always so generous with your advice and your time! Thanks, that helps a lot. I still need to understand a lot more, but it’s a flying start. Pasadena, eh? I was not so far from there last September, but another trip to the States will have to wait a year or two - if I haven’t dropped off my perch by then. Yes, it was a great pleasure to meet you in Malta - I did go to the last Edinburgh conf but of course it was just a step for me. Thanks again - and I can’t help feeling I’ll be back with more questions! Graham On 7 Jul 2015, at 17:39, Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.com wrote: Graham Samuel wrote: Although my experience of LiveCode scripting and the production of standalones is pretty extensive, I have never used any manifestation of LiveCode Server, but now I want to back a web site with in effect some LiveCode functionality and to communicate with users of the site (for example respond to a form a user may have filled in by emailing the user with derived data, while somehow retaining the info the user put into the form - I am hoping against hope that this doesn’t mean using a database as I don’t know anything about those either). The learning problem seems to me that this is a moving target in that quite big changes have been made to this incarnation of LiveCode over the years. Looking at the LC web site, the variety of dates of the tutorial info about this is quite worrying Ignore the dates - Common Gateway Interface (CGI) is a truly common convention that hasn't changed in a long time, so any tutorial will likely be as useful today as the day it was written. Whether using Perl, Python, PHP, LiveCode, or anything else as a CGI, the basic setup is essentially the same. The only weakness I've seen with the tutorials I've come across is that they do a good job with the what, but don't spend enough time on the why. The why can be important because server configurations vary, but if you understand how the pieces fit together you can figure out just about anything. A brief orientation to get you started: A Web server is just an app that listens on port 80, and when it gets a request for a resource it interprets the request and returns the requested data. Most commonly this app will be Apache (though there are other good ones as well). Most requests are for files, so most of a Web server's work is really just as a glorified file server. But serving static files isn't very interesting, so Apache and most others support CGI, which allows any app that can be run from the command line to be used as an augmentation to the Web server for any special processing you like. The key is to let Apache know that it should use your app for some requests, and the method you'll use to let Apache know will differ depending on whether you control the server or are just renting a single account there. For dedicated servers and VPSes, you can specify CGI settings in the Apache config file. That can be safely skipped for newcomers, because if you know enough to harden and maintain a server you can probably figure out how to configure CGI. For shared hosting accounts (the kind most of the readers here use because they're quite adequate for many sites and are very cheap) you won't be able to modify the server config directly, since that would alter Apache's behavior for all users on the machine. So instead, Apache includes a mechanism for communicating settings info for a single Web site, using a file named .htaccess. The meat of the .htaccess instructions boils down to two things: letting Apache know that you're adding a special handler for a given file type, and where to find the app that will take action when that file type is encountered: AddHandler livecode-script .lc Action livecode-script /cgi-bin/livecode-server In that example livecode-script is just an arbitrary label, used in the first line to identify that special handling is needed for files ending in .lc, and the second line defines the action to be taken as launching the LiveCode Server executable. Once set up, Apache will get the request, launch LC Server and hand the request off to it, where you can process the request however you like and hand the data back to Apache before closing, where Apache can then send the data back to the client. That the entire runtime life cycle takes place during each request seems like it should be prohibitively time consuming, that's because we're used to running LC on our desktops where its boot time is mostly spent on GUI stuff. When run from the command line without a GUI LC launches almost instantly, and consumes very little RAM (about 1.5 MBs for simple scripts). Hopefully that brief orientation will help you use this tutorial with confidence:
Re: LiveCode Server - where to start?
On 7/7/2015 11:45 AM, Graham Samuel wrote: Richard, you are always so generous with your advice and your time! Thanks, that helps a lot. I still need to understand a lot more, but it’s a flying start. Actually, knowing your situation, LC server can't be used because there is no commercial version. You'll need to implement the old-style CGI system. I'll write to you privately, but wanted to short-stop any efforts before you spent too much time on it. LC server is a wonderful utility but in this case the lack of commercial support is a blocker for you. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: LiveCode Server - where to start?
Graham Samuel wrote: Although my experience of LiveCode scripting and the production of standalones is pretty extensive, I have never used any manifestation of LiveCode Server, but now I want to back a web site with in effect some LiveCode functionality and to communicate with users of the site (for example respond to a form a user may have filled in by emailing the user with derived data, while somehow retaining the info the user put into the form - I am hoping against hope that this doesn’t mean using a database as I don’t know anything about those either). The learning problem seems to me that this is a moving target in that quite big changes have been made to this incarnation of LiveCode over the years. Looking at the LC web site, the variety of dates of the tutorial info about this is quite worrying Ignore the dates - Common Gateway Interface (CGI) is a truly common convention that hasn't changed in a long time, so any tutorial will likely be as useful today as the day it was written. Whether using Perl, Python, PHP, LiveCode, or anything else as a CGI, the basic setup is essentially the same. The only weakness I've seen with the tutorials I've come across is that they do a good job with the what, but don't spend enough time on the why. The why can be important because server configurations vary, but if you understand how the pieces fit together you can figure out just about anything. A brief orientation to get you started: A Web server is just an app that listens on port 80, and when it gets a request for a resource it interprets the request and returns the requested data. Most commonly this app will be Apache (though there are other good ones as well). Most requests are for files, so most of a Web server's work is really just as a glorified file server. But serving static files isn't very interesting, so Apache and most others support CGI, which allows any app that can be run from the command line to be used as an augmentation to the Web server for any special processing you like. The key is to let Apache know that it should use your app for some requests, and the method you'll use to let Apache know will differ depending on whether you control the server or are just renting a single account there. For dedicated servers and VPSes, you can specify CGI settings in the Apache config file. That can be safely skipped for newcomers, because if you know enough to harden and maintain a server you can probably figure out how to configure CGI. For shared hosting accounts (the kind most of the readers here use because they're quite adequate for many sites and are very cheap) you won't be able to modify the server config directly, since that would alter Apache's behavior for all users on the machine. So instead, Apache includes a mechanism for communicating settings info for a single Web site, using a file named .htaccess. The meat of the .htaccess instructions boils down to two things: letting Apache know that you're adding a special handler for a given file type, and where to find the app that will take action when that file type is encountered: AddHandler livecode-script .lc Action livecode-script /cgi-bin/livecode-server In that example livecode-script is just an arbitrary label, used in the first line to identify that special handling is needed for files ending in .lc, and the second line defines the action to be taken as launching the LiveCode Server executable. Once set up, Apache will get the request, launch LC Server and hand the request off to it, where you can process the request however you like and hand the data back to Apache before closing, where Apache can then send the data back to the client. That the entire runtime life cycle takes place during each request seems like it should be prohibitively time consuming, that's because we're used to running LC on our desktops where its boot time is mostly spent on GUI stuff. When run from the command line without a GUI LC launches almost instantly, and consumes very little RAM (about 1.5 MBs for simple scripts). Hopefully that brief orientation will help you use this tutorial with confidence: http://lessons.runrev.com/m/4070/l/36655-how-do-i-install-livecode-server-with-apache-via-htaccess Please feel free to write back if any of that setup doesn't work as you expected. Even better, if you're passing through Pasadena I have a standing invitation for anyone attending our LiveCode User Group meetings: bring a laptop with FTP access to your site and I'll stay after the meeting to install LC Server for you. I always enjoy your company; it's been a long time since Malta. - there doesn’t seem to me to be a modern (i.e less than a year old) tutorial about how to set up a server that runs LC stacks, plus an explanation of what can and can’t be done after the install has happened. LC Server is very flexible, and in recent versions can even be
Re: LiveCode Server - where to start?
On 2015-07-07 19:32, J. Landman Gay wrote: On 7/7/2015 11:45 AM, Graham Samuel wrote: Richard, you are always so generous with your advice and your time! Thanks, that helps a lot. I still need to understand a lot more, but it’s a flying start. Actually, knowing your situation, LC server can't be used because there is no commercial version. You'll need to implement the old-style CGI system. I'll write to you privately, but wanted to short-stop any efforts before you spent too much time on it. LC server is a wonderful utility but in this case the lack of commercial support is a blocker for you. There is, in fact, a commercial version of LiveCode server available. Please contact LiveCode support with the details of your subscriber account; they'll be able to hook you up. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett peter.br...@livecode.com LiveCode Engine Development Team ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
RE: LiveCode Server - where to start?
I you go to the classic account page the commercial server download link is there along with the username and password. I just downloaded it a month ago so I could use password protected library stacks. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdim...@evergreeninfo.net -Original Message- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Peter TB Brett Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2015 3:45 PM To: How to use LiveCode Subject: Re: LiveCode Server - where to start? On 2015-07-07 19:32, J. Landman Gay wrote: On 7/7/2015 11:45 AM, Graham Samuel wrote: Richard, you are always so generous with your advice and your time! Thanks, that helps a lot. I still need to understand a lot more, but it’s a flying start. Actually, knowing your situation, LC server can't be used because there is no commercial version. You'll need to implement the old-style CGI system. I'll write to you privately, but wanted to short-stop any efforts before you spent too much time on it. LC server is a wonderful utility but in this case the lack of commercial support is a blocker for you. There is, in fact, a commercial version of LiveCode server available. Please contact LiveCode support with the details of your subscriber account; they'll be able to hook you up. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett peter.br...@livecode.com LiveCode Engine Development Team ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
RE: LiveCode Server - where to start?
Hi Graham, The HTML project is probably what you are looking for http://livecode.com/ready-html5-deployment-for-livecode-announced/ Regards Paul -Original Message- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Graham Samuel Sent: 07 July 2015 15:30 To: How to use LiveCode Subject: LiveCode Server - where to start? Hi Although my experience of LiveCode scripting and the production of standalones is pretty extensive, I have never used any manifestation of LiveCode Server, but now I want to back a web site with in effect some LiveCode functionality and to communicate with users of the site (for example respond to a form a user may have filled in by emailing the user with derived data, while somehow retaining the info the user put into the form - I am hoping against hope that this doesn’t mean using a database as I don’t know anything about those either). The learning problem seems to me that this is a moving target in that quite big changes have been made to this incarnation of LiveCode over the years. Looking at the LC web site, the variety of dates of the tutorial info about this is quite worrying - there doesn’t seem to me to be a modern (i.e less than a year old) tutorial about how to set up a server that runs LC stacks, plus an explanation of what can and can’t be done after the install has happened. Also I sense that On-Rev (I have access) is the simplest way of doing this as a lot of stuff is pre-installed, but if I have server space elsewhere (I do) what I have to do to get a robust implementation? You can probably tell from the above that I don’t even know the correct jargon to use when talking about these issues. Can anyone point me at a tutorial or any other method of getting familiar with this stuff, as I really need it? TIA Graham ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
