Re: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
We've heard *what* Adobe are doing, now there's a blog post about *why* they are doing it. http://www.mikechambers.com/blog/2011/11/11/clarifications-on-flash-player-for-mobile-browsers-the-flash-platform-and-the-future-of-flash/ No comments from me on on the different things covered in the article as I've not finished digesting it all yet. Ian ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
Ian- Saturday, November 12, 2011, 7:24:57 AM, you wrote: We've heard *what* Adobe are doing, now there's a blog post about *why* they are doing it. Thanks. Interesting. Even Adobe recommends HTML5 over Flex. http://blogs.adobe.com/flex/2011/11/your-questions-about-flex.html we are planning to contribute the Flex SDK to an open source foundation... Does Adobe recommend we use Flex or HTML5 for our enterprise application development? In the long-term, we believe HTML5 will be the best technology for enterprise application development. -- -Mark Wieder mwie...@ahsoftware.net ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
Ian, Thanks for the link. Great read. Here's my take: *Adobe is in the process of repositioning Flash from a browser plugin to a dedicated cross platform application development tool-- just like LC is right now (assuming LC sees the writing on the wall and tosses the revPlugin).* This makes sense to me. Based on what I read, and our own experience writing a million dollar Flex web app over the past couple of years, it's obvious to me how difficult it now is for Flash to be considered a worthwhile web application enterprise strategy. Add this to the current day situation of extreme poor performance (if at all) on mobile, their decision is all but made up for them. I suspect this repositioning will take some time, and upset some developers, but as mobile and desktop continue to merge, and HTML5 tools continue to get better, it only makes sense to phase out Flash, albeit slowly. -- Chipp Walters CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
Hi Chipp, After these news, looks like a DLL for running a Flash player inside a Livecode application would find a more enthusiastic reception. Chipp Walters wrote: [snip] I suspect this repositioning will take some time, and upset some developers, but as mobile and desktop continue to merge, and HTML5 tools continue to get better, it only makes sense to phase out Flash, albeit slowly. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Re-OT-ADOBE-DROPS-FLASH-for-HTML5-tp4020804p4035458.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
Mark Wieder rote: Richard- Adobe has also killed off AIR for linux. So not only no linux development, but no linux deployment either. I'm quite happy to return the favor. :) AIR is fundamentally flawed by requiring the installation of the engine separately from the apps that use it. If there's any other way to deploy with it it must be broken since I've not seen anyone use it. Instead I see Before you can install this app you need to install Adobe Air, at which point I click Cancel and move on to any alternative app made by developers who care about delivering a clean experience. LiveCode totally outshines AIR in that regard: the small 2.3 MB engine is easily bound to the app to make it truly stand alone - no dependencies, no dependency conflicts. There's no confusion about what files are needed to make an app run, and zero chance of conflict if another LiveCode app requires a different engine version. For those end users who crave dependency conflicts, they can find many in the Linux world without using AIR. But if they just want to great apps made quickly and easily there are far better options, LiveCode being one of them. VMs are useful. Embedded VMs are infinitely more useful. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
Colin Holgate wrote: The having to install AIR engine only fully applies to the older version. Thanks for the clarification. I wonder why so many devs use the old version -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
The new one has only been out for two months, and it is a trade off, you're making people install yet another copy of an engine they already have, just to avoid a small amount of confusion. So not everyone will jump on that feature. On Nov 11, 2011, at 10:54 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: I wonder why so many devs use the old version ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
On 11 Nov 2011, at 14:29, Richard Gaskin wrote: AIR is fundamentally flawed by requiring the installation of the engine separately from the apps that use it. Richard, maybe I misunderstand what you are describing, but I like the idea of installing a single runtime engine to run much smaller and easily installed app. I'd love to see something similar for LiveCode, and then apps would just consist of the stack file. No platform-specific installers or standalones to build. I find the AIR installation process pretty seemless. An extra download the first time, but part of the same installation process. (I agree that the AIR update notifications can be annoying.) Dave ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
Dave Cragg wrote: Richard, maybe I misunderstand what you are describing, but I like the idea of installing a single runtime engine to run much smaller and easily installed app. I'd love to see something similar for LiveCode, and then apps would just consist of the stack file. No platform-specific installers or standalones to build. I find the AIR installation process pretty seemless. An extra download the first time, but part of the same installation process. (I agree that the AIR update notifications can be annoying.) That last sentence says it all. With LC we have the freedom to deliver collections of apps that run off of a single standalone, or not, as we choose. And with go url we can delver updates or even whole new apps without ever replacing the standalone. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
Dave- Friday, November 11, 2011, 9:12:20 AM, you wrote: Richard, maybe I misunderstand what you are describing, but I like the idea of installing a single runtime engine to run much smaller and easily installed app. I'd love to see something similar for LiveCode, and then apps would just consist of the stack file. ...and we used to be have that ability, before it was nixed in rev 4.0 or something. I used to create little stack apps to do tasks and run them from the commandline with the -f option. Made for a nice alternative to perl or insert another tool here. Now I do that with ruby. Another market niche lost to LiveCode. It's getting to be less and less something I use in my work and more of just something to play around with in my spare time. -- -Mark Wieder mwie...@ahsoftware.net ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
Colin- Friday, November 11, 2011, 8:22:27 AM, you wrote: The new one has only been out for two months, and it is a trade off It's not always a trade-off. I've just spent the last couple of days painfully converting our ant build scripts from linux to windows running in a VM because I rely on third-party tools that now need the new version of AIR, and Adobe has kicked us once again. The idea to develop for AIR wasn't my decision, but at least it still lets us deploy to Android, which is more than I can say for LC. -- -Mark Wieder mwie...@ahsoftware.net ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
I may have misunderstood that. The fact that you can include the runtime in an application doesn't stop people from using the separate AIR runtime. If you have a case where an AIR update broke something, let me know, I'm on the AIR beta and can let them know. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
Colin- Friday, November 11, 2011, 6:06:21 PM, you wrote: I may have misunderstood that. The fact that you can include the runtime in an application doesn't stop people from using the separate AIR runtime. If you have a case where an AIR update broke something, let me know, I'm on the AIR beta and can let them know. This is getting way off topic here, even in spite of the OT heading, and I wouldn't mind continuing this offlist. So in a nutshell, Adobe has killed AIR on linux. I'm using FlexMonkey and need the 5.1.1. release, which requires a newer version of AIR than I had installed. There's no current version and the previous version didn't install on my Fedora machine. I'm using ant scripts to build because a)we build them on a CI machine so it has to be outside the IDE and b)Adobe killed their IDE on linux last year. So I've moved the ant scripts to a Windows VM because I can read the writing on the wall. Sed is still giving me problems, but that's a Windows issue and I'll get it sorted soon enough. -- -Mark Wieder mwie...@ahsoftware.net ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
Sorry, I didn't realize it we were talking about Linux in particular. I don't have any input on what happens with any Flash things and Linux, I know that Adobe have effectively handed off development of Flash Player to the Linux partners, but I don't know where that leaves AIR. I can ask. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
Colin- Friday, November 11, 2011, 8:15:48 PM, you wrote: No, I can tell you where that leaves AIR. Beginning June 14, 2011, Adobe AIR is no longer supported for desktop Linux distributions. http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/902/cpsid_90202.html -- -Mark Wieder mwie...@ahsoftware.net ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
Well, AIR 2.6, which is pretty decent, is still going to work. I'll ask whether AIR is allowed to be developed by the Linux providers, in the way that Flash Player is. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
Colin- Friday, November 11, 2011, 8:47:18 PM, you wrote: Well, AIR 2.6, which is pretty decent, is still going to work. I'll ask whether AIR is allowed to be developed by the Linux providers, in the way that Flash Player is. Well, this is still OT, so I'm done venting. Been a long week. -- -Mark Wieder mwie...@ahsoftware.net ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
Lynn Fredricks wrote: Right - but here's the rub. Even if application builders (Flash or whatever) export HTML5 versions for use on mobile devices, that's still two different versions of applications that will need supporting, right? I don't think they can make all the same apps with HTML5 that they can with Flash (as Colin basically implied). Blasphemy! Do you mean to suggest HTML5 is not a complete replacement for Flash? So Thoughts on Flash was wrong? ;) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
In so many ways. It's main two flaws were that it made the common mistake of thinking that all Flash work is just playing of video, and that doing something demanding in HTML5 wouldn't also drain the battery. It also had the side effect of killing products such as LiveCode for iOS for about six months. On Nov 10, 2011, at 9:31 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: So Thoughts on Flash was wrong? ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
Well said, Colin. On Thursday, November 10, 2011, Colin Holgate co...@verizon.net wrote: In so many ways. It's main two flaws were that it made the common mistake of thinking that all Flash work is just playing of video, and that doing something demanding in HTML5 wouldn't also drain the battery. It also had the side effect of killing products such as LiveCode for iOS for about six months. -- Chipp Walters CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
On Nov 10, 2011, at 12:42 PM, Chipp Walters ch...@chipp.com wrote: Well said, Colin. On Thursday, November 10, 2011, Colin Holgate co...@verizon.net wrote: In so many ways. It's main two flaws were that it made the common mistake of thinking that all Flash work is just playing of video, and that doing something demanding in HTML5 wouldn't also drain the battery. It also had the side effect of killing products such as LiveCode for iOS for about six months. -- Chipp Walters CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc. OTH, rather than killing LC for iOS, it made RunRev think of other mobile OS' like Android. I truly believe that if Apple had not abandoned Flash and other Dev environments, LC On Android would still have a coming soon banner on their site. ~Roger Sent from my iPad (yeah, I have one too now) ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
RE: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
Well said, Colin. On Thursday, November 10, 2011, Colin Holgate co...@verizon.net wrote: In so many ways. It's main two flaws were that it made the common mistake of thinking that all Flash work is just playing of video, and that doing something demanding in HTML5 wouldn't also drain the battery. It also had the side effect of killing products such as LiveCode for iOS for about six months. What I find interesting in the redefinition of Flash as a video only solution is that it exactly parallels the mess Apple made of Quicktime. Quicktime did have this great API (it worked on the Mac at least, though I know it had its share of problems on Windows), which Apple is no longer interested in supporting - making Quicktime just a video format. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks President Paradigma Software http://www.paradigmasoft.com Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
Exactly. The original premise of Flash did and still does makes sense: reduced data and instructions that get rendered on the client side. I'm no Flash fanboy, for sure -- I dislike the direction Adobe took with ActionScript. But watching people hate on Flash seems like any other mob dis, making claims about something for no good reason other than to claim me too. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX Design Recently, Lynn Fredricks wrote: What I find interesting in the redefinition of Flash as a video only solution is that it exactly parallels the mess Apple made of Quicktime. Quicktime did have this great API (it worked on the Mac at least, though I know it had its share of problems on Windows), which Apple is no longer interested in supporting - making Quicktime just a video format. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
I wonder if there's some space down on Wall Street for someone with a We Want Flash! banner... On Nov 10, 2011, at 2:46 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: But watching people hate on Flash seems like any other mob dis, making claims about something for no good reason other than to claim me too. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
On 11/10/2011 10:17 PM, Colin Holgate wrote: I wonder if there's some space down on Wall Street for someone with a We Want Flash! banner... I'm sure there's always, brief, space for a flasher . . . :) On Nov 10, 2011, at 2:46 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: But watching people hate on Flash seems like any other mob dis, making claims about something for no good reason other than to claim me too. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
Richard- Adobe has also killed off AIR for linux. So not only no linux development, but no linux deployment either. -- -Mark Wieder mwie...@ahsoftware.net ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
THIS IS BIG NEWS. If you-all haven't seen this yet... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/09/adobe-flash-player-mobile-plug-in_n_1083869.html -- http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/09/adobe-flash-player-mobile-plug-in_n_1083869.html Stephen Barncard San Francisco Ca. USA http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/09/adobe-flash-player-mobile-plug-in_n_1083869.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/09/adobe-flash-player-mobile-plug-in_n_1083869.htmlmore about sqb http://www.google.com/profiles/sbarncar ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 4:40 PM, Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.comwrote: stephen barncard wrote: THIS IS BIG NEWS. If you-all haven't seen this yet... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/**2011/11/09/adobe-flash-player-** mobile-plug-in_n_1083869.htmlhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/09/adobe-flash-player-mobile-plug-in_n_1083869.html -- http://www.huffingtonpost.**com/2011/11/09/adobe-flash-** player-mobile-plug-in_n_**1083869.htmlhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/09/adobe-flash-player-mobile-plug-in_n_1083869.html Nice. Very nice. Another platform distinction gone, further commoditizing OSes, which is always helpful for us cross-platform devs. Have you guys seen Adobe Edge? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/**blog.irvhttp://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv __**_ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecodehttp://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code. http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
Andre Garzia wrote: Have you guys seen Adobe Edge? No Linux version, so I have no use for it. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
After Flash Player 11.1 ships they will continue to provide security updates, and it could be years before Android OS is changed in a way that breaks plugins. One thing it will do though is encourage some people to make mobile browser pieces with HTML5, which while being quite hard to do (with a fraction of the Flash features), it would mean that those pages will work on iOS too. So, it will make Android seem less special in the end, but won't have a immediate impact. One small impact on LiveCode is that Adobe will put more effort into making AIR mobile apps (that you make with Flash) better, and have more features. Although LiveCode wasn't competing with the Flash plugin at all, on mobile that is, it is competing as to what tool developers will use for making apps. The more improvements that Adobe make on AIR, the more it stacks up against LiveCode as a tool to use. But I wouldn't worry, Adobe bring out new features at a much slower rate than RunRev, although the Cloud subscription deal may speed that up. On Nov 9, 2011, at 1:26 PM, stephen barncard wrote: THIS IS BIG NEWS. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
RE: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
Nice. Very nice. Another platform distinction gone, further commoditizing OSes, which is always helpful for us cross-platform devs. Im not sure how to feel about this. Simple Flash stuff ran terribly on some devices. I have a site that has a Flash based gallery - nothing too complex, which would not render properly on some devices. On the other hand, this means Flash developers are going to have to think twice about using Flash because of mobile device deployment. Doing this - yeah, I think the writing is on the wall for Flash. Now Flash developers can feel what Director users have been feeling for some time ;-) Best regards, Lynn Fredricks President Paradigma Software http://www.paradigmasoft.com Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
Lynn Fredricks wrote: On the other hand, this means Flash developers are going to have to think twice about using Flash because of mobile device deployment. Doing this - yeah, I think the writing is on the wall for Flash. Now Flash developers can feel what Director users have been feeling for some time ;-) On the contrary, unlike Director it seems Flash is very much alive, just changing the engine from a plugin to WebKit - from the horse's mouth: Flash to Focus on PC Browsing and Mobile Apps; Adobe to More Aggressively Contribute to HTML5 ... We will continue to leverage our experience with Flash to accelerate our work with the W3C and WebKit to bring similar capabilities to HTML5 as quickly as possible, just as we have done with CSS Shaders. And, we will design new features in Flash for a smooth transition to HTML5 as the standards evolve so developers can confidently invest knowing their skills will continue to be leveraged. ... http://blogs.adobe.com/flashplatform/2011/11/flash-to-focus-on-pc-browsing-and-mobile-apps-adobe-to-more-aggressively-contribute-to-html5.html -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
Aside from the fact that Director continues to be developed (a new shockwave update came out only yesterday), I think you misunderstood something. Adobe's use of WebKit is as a preview of the HTML5 content. Flash isn't involved in the playback at all. Flash Pro will be involved in developing HTML5 content, but the playback part doesn't involve Flash, if you export as HTML that is. On Nov 9, 2011, at 2:49 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: On the contrary, unlike Director it seems Flash is very much alive, just changing the engine from a plugin to WebKit - from the horse's mouth: ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
Colin Holgate wrote: I think you misunderstood something. Adobe's use of WebKit is as a preview of the HTML5 content. Flash isn't involved in the playback at all. Flash Pro will be involved in developing HTML5 content, but the playback part doesn't involve Flash, if you export as HTML that is. Yes, that was my understanding, which I tried to convey when I wrote: ...it seems Flash is very much alive, just changing the engine from a plugin to WebKit AFAIK the authoring system will remain pretty much the same, but the output will no longer be limited to the plugin, able to run natively in any HTML5-capable browser. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
On 11/09/2011 08:26 PM, stephen barncard wrote: THIS IS BIG NEWS. If you-all haven't seen this yet... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/09/adobe-flash-player-mobile-plug-in_n_1083869.html HOWEVER; like everything else, there will be a significant lag-time before Flash vanishes from the web; developers have put hours and hours of effort into Flash, and I cannot envisage them redoing anything until they absolutely have to. Therefore, while anybody who is developing anything for Flash right now ought to pause, take a few very deep breaths, say a few rude words, and start all over again without Flash, browsers are going to need to cope with Flash for a good longish time (say 5 years) until all the current content available has been replaced. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
I can't say much, being bound by NDA, but there will still be about 90% of the things Flash can do that won't be playable by the most powerful HTML5 browser. If you simplify what you were going to do as Flash enough, then you may have something that can work just the same in HTML5. On Nov 9, 2011, at 3:08 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: AFAIK the authoring system will remain pretty much the same, but the output will no longer be limited to the plugin, able to run natively in any HTML5-capable browser. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
Dunno, but this is fun: http://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/community_safety/crime_reduction/car_crime/car_thief_keith_v1.html and somebody put quite a bit of effort into it. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
Richard- Wednesday, November 9, 2011, 10:59:38 AM, you wrote: No Linux version, so I have no use for it. No problem, they're just following LiveCode's lead. The Edge Linux Edition will no doubt be delivered when there's enough market share and after developers have been clamoring for it for years. Then it'll be missing key features, have bugs that nobody bothers fixing, and still won't support mobile deployment. We're just ahead of the curve. -- -Mark Wieder mwie...@ahsoftware.net ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
I've been constructing new pages as HTML5 for over a year. One item to note is that the rules are different than html 4.x and things that were allowed before with ( loose ) will not validate. Constructing a web page with old habits could lead to 10-30 errors when attempting to validate as HTML5 , even though it might look fine in one's own browser. My iRev/ lc HTML5 pages always ended up with too many errors and only recently have I figured out what was wrong. It's about the headers. I've learned a lot about creating quality, verifiable HTML5 code using the w3C validator http://validator.w3.org/ To share with those trying to make validated HTML5 pages using Livecode server: http://www.jazzcubed.com/ *[ do this before any other HTML is sent: (this will make Apache talk UTF-8 ) ]* ?lc put new header Content-type: text/html; charset=utf-8 ? *[ this html startup and header code validates for me ]* * !DOCTYPE html* * html* * head* * meta charset=UTF-8* * titleJazzcubed Records/title* * link rel=icon type=image/png href=favicon.ico /* * /head* * body* *[content]* * /body* * /html* so simple and clean, universal now. I like the standard. sqb On 9 November 2011 10:40, Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.com wrote: Nice. Very nice. Another platform distinction gone, further commoditizing OSes, which is always helpful for us cross-platform devs. -- Richard Gaskin Stephen Barncard San Francisco Ca. USA more about sqb http://www.google.com/profiles/sbarncar ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
Stephen wrote: ?lc put new header Content-type: text/html; charset=utf-8 ? !! Thank you thank you thank you thank you Been gnashing my teeth about why my UTF-8 content wasn't displayed even though I declared it in the head part. Malte ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
RE: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
On the contrary, unlike Director it seems Flash is very much alive, just changing the engine from a plugin to WebKit - from the horse's mouth: Flash to Focus on PC Browsing and Mobile Apps; Adobe to More Aggressively Contribute to HTML5 Right - but here's the rub. Even if application builders (Flash or whatever) export HTML5 versions for use on mobile devices, that's still two different versions of applications that will need supporting, right? I don't think they can make all the same apps with HTML5 that they can with Flash (as Colin basically implied). I can see why they might pursue this strategy since Apple (and I would guess MS too) have blown off Flash playback, and that its probably easier than dealing with a huge number of hardware makers. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks President Paradigma Software http://www.paradigmasoft.com Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
Le 9 nov. 2011 à 20:08, Lynn Fredricks a écrit : Nice. Very nice. Another platform distinction gone, further commoditizing OSes, which is always helpful for us cross-platform devs. Im not sure how to feel about this. Simple Flash stuff ran terribly on some devices. I have a site that has a Flash based gallery - nothing too complex, which would not render properly on some devices. On the other hand, this means Flash developers are going to have to think twice about using Flash because of mobile device deployment. Doing this - yeah, I think the writing is on the wall for Flash. Now Flash developers can feel what Director users have been feeling for some time ;-) (Beside LC server 4.6.3+ on the server-side,) javascript as the glue + JQuery Mootools plugins + HTML5/CSS3 let us provide on the client-side 150% of what could ever be done in flash, the lightweight and elegance en prime along targetting any kind of OSes ;D Best regards, Lynn Fredricks President Paradigma Software http://www.paradigmasoft.com Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Pierre Sahores mobile : 06 03 95 77 70 www.sahores-conseil.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
You can, or will be able to, export a swf for web use, select Android, publish the Android app, select iOS, publish the iOS app, select HTML, export the HTML5 version, all from the same FLA. But, it would have to be a fairly feature limited application if it has to be able to run as HTML5. On Nov 9, 2011, at 5:25 PM, Lynn Fredricks wrote: Right - but here's the rub. Even if application builders (Flash or whatever) export HTML5 versions for use on mobile devices, that's still two different versions of applications that will need supporting, right? I don't think they can make all the same apps with HTML5 that they can with Flash (as Colin basically implied). ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT?] ADOBE DROPS FLASH for HTML5
Many thanks Stephan ! Will use your recommandation as soon as tomorrow morning ;-) Kind regards, Pierre Le 9 nov. 2011 à 21:50, stephen barncard a écrit : I've been constructing new pages as HTML5 for over a year. One item to note is that the rules are different than html 4.x and things that were allowed before with ( loose ) will not validate. Constructing a web page with old habits could lead to 10-30 errors when attempting to validate as HTML5 , even though it might look fine in one's own browser. My iRev/ lc HTML5 pages always ended up with too many errors and only recently have I figured out what was wrong. It's about the headers. I've learned a lot about creating quality, verifiable HTML5 code using the w3C validator http://validator.w3.org/ To share with those trying to make validated HTML5 pages using Livecode server: http://www.jazzcubed.com/ *[ do this before any other HTML is sent: (this will make Apache talk UTF-8 ) ]* ?lc put new header Content-type: text/html; charset=utf-8 ? *[ this html startup and header code validates for me ]* * !DOCTYPE html* * html* * head* * meta charset=UTF-8* * titleJazzcubed Records/title* * link rel=icon type=image/png href=favicon.ico /* * /head* * body* *[content]* * /body* * /html* so simple and clean, universal now. I like the standard. sqb On 9 November 2011 10:40, Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.com wrote: Nice. Very nice. Another platform distinction gone, further commoditizing OSes, which is always helpful for us cross-platform devs. -- Richard Gaskin Stephen Barncard San Francisco Ca. USA more about sqb http://www.google.com/profiles/sbarncar ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Pierre Sahores mobile : 06 03 95 77 70 www.sahores-conseil.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
