Re: Can you please enlighten me on the LiveCode versions?

[Graham Samuel]

The short answer is yes, at least for Mac Yosemite and Windows 7, since that's 
what I was doing yesterday, and my standalones were working very well. There 
may be an issue with earlier versions of OS X, specifically Lion - RunRev are 
investigating this possibility as I write. Of course your mileage may vary: I  
don't use every part of LC's functionality (who could?) but I do have a small 
amount of Unicode-aware scripting, which is why I migrated to LC7 in the first 
place.

HTH

Graham

Sent from my iPad

> On 18 Oct 2014, at 18:53, Earthednet-wp  wrote:
> 
> Is it possible to build a standalone in LC 7 rc3 at this time? Unfortunately, 
> I have been working in 7 for awhile and want to have a standalone in January.
> Bill
> 
> William Prothero
> http://es.earthednet.org
> 
>> On Oct 18, 2014, at 12:12 AM, Kay C Lan  wrote:
>> 
>> On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 1:17 AM, Richard Gaskin 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> But if you need stability, the most recent public release build is the
>>> best bet, as those are the versions the community has tested and can no
>>> longer find show-stoppers for.
>>> 
>>> An excellent overview, thank you. I think the only thing worth adding is
>> due to Unicode 7.0 and above are a different file format therefore you need
>> to be careful you don't accidentally open the sole copy of your soon to be
>> released killer app in 7.x.
>> 
>> You can do all your work in 6.x.y, make a copy, open it in 7.x and see how
>> it behaves.
>> 
>> You can't open in 7.x, do modifications, Save, Quit and then open that
>> stack using 6.x.y
>> 
>> Any modifications done in a 7.x copy would need to be manually transferred
>> back into a 6.x.y stack.
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Re: Can you please enlighten me on the LiveCode versions?

[William Prothero]

Thanks, Richard. Good advice. I do make numerous backups during the day, and 
regularly to backup discs. And I hadn’t noticed I could “save As..” to oleo 
versions, so that’s comforting. Mostly I’m using the standard features. The 
best improvement was made when they did some work on the snapshot command, 
which was failing. I’m not using unicode features, so older versions would do 
ok too.
Best,
Bill
William A. Prothero
http://es.earthednet.org/

On Oct 19, 2014, at 8:55 AM, Richard Gaskin  wrote:

> Earthednet-wp wrote:
> 
> > Well, in my ignorance and newbiness, I decided to try lc7 and
> > haven't experienced ant problems, except for a slowdown changing
> > bytes in a large image, to plot symbols on a map. So, I started
> > using it for developing my project (silly me) and can't easily
> > go back to the release version because of the many changes I've made.
> 
> It's true that v7 uses a new file format, but they've enhanced the file 
> format a few times over the years and each time they provide a way to save in 
> older versions if needed.
> 

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Re: Can you please enlighten me on the LiveCode versions?

[Richard Gaskin]

Earthednet-wp wrote:

> Well, in my ignorance and newbiness, I decided to try lc7 and
> haven't experienced ant problems, except for a slowdown changing
> bytes in a large image, to plot symbols on a map. So, I started
> using it for developing my project (silly me) and can't easily
> go back to the release version because of the many changes I've made.

It's true that v7 uses a new file format, but they've enhanced the file 
format a few times over the years and each time they provide a way to 
save in older versions if needed.


With v7 you can use File->Save As to save to the previous three formats 
in addition to the v7 format, providing compatibility with all versions 
of LiveCode spanning more than a decade.


Of course if your work requires any features specific to v7, like the 
new Unicode enhancements, then saving as an older format won't do much 
for you.  But if you're just working on code that'll run in any recent 
version you should be fine.


It's a good idea to make regular backups of any time-intensive files in 
any app, even more so with pre-release apps.  But you've been around the 
block enough that I'm sure you do that regularly anyway.



> My deadline is January, so I thought there would be a release out
> by then. Anyway, I have found no issues with v7 so far.

Thaf's really good to hear.  If you do run into any issues please report 
them ASAP so the team can jump on them before the final release.



> But, if there isn't a release before my deadline, I will still
> need to make a standalone for one particular user. That's why I
> asked. I still haven't tries to make a standalone in LC, so 

Sounds like you're in good shape.  Their schedule has v7 finalized long 
before the end of the year (ideally by early November, unless our 
testing shows anything that would hold it back for more work), so the 
timeline looks good for what you need and it sounds like the 
functionality your app relies on is all in place.


It may be helpful at this time to build a standalone just to test that. 
 Sometimes the differences between development and runtime can make 
alter some aspects of behavior, usually not significant but better to 
find out now while the team can act on it quickly if needed.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Can you please enlighten me on the LiveCode versions?

[Earthednet-wp]

Richard,
Well, in my ignorance and newbiness, I decided to try lc7 and haven't 
experienced ant problems, except for a slowdown changing bytes in a large 
image, to plot symbols on a map. So, I started using it for developing my 
project (silly me) and can't easily go back to the release version because of 
the many changes I've made. My deadline is January, so I thought there would be 
a release out by then. Anyway, I have found no issues with v7 so far.  But, if 
there isn't a release before my deadline, I will still need to make a 
standalone for one particular user. That's why I asked. I still haven't tries 
to make a standalone in LC, so 

Bill

William Prothero
http://es.earthednet.org

> On Oct 18, 2014, at 3:05 PM, Richard Gaskin  
> wrote:
> 
> Earthednet-wp wrote:
> 
> > Is it possible to build a standalone in LC 7 rc3 at this time?
> > Unfortunately, I have been working in 7 for awhile and want to
> > have a standalone in January.
> 
> What problems have you encountered?
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> 
> ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
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Re: Can you please enlighten me on the LiveCode versions?

[Richard Gaskin]

Earthednet-wp wrote:

> Is it possible to build a standalone in LC 7 rc3 at this time?
> Unfortunately, I have been working in 7 for awhile and want to
> have a standalone in January.

What problems have you encountered?

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Can you please enlighten me on the LiveCode versions?

[Earthednet-wp]

Is it possible to build a standalone in LC 7 rc3 at this time? Unfortunately, I 
have been working in 7 for awhile and want to have a standalone in January.
Bill

William Prothero
http://es.earthednet.org

> On Oct 18, 2014, at 12:12 AM, Kay C Lan  wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 1:17 AM, Richard Gaskin 
> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> But if you need stability, the most recent public release build is the
>> best bet, as those are the versions the community has tested and can no
>> longer find show-stoppers for.
>> 
>> An excellent overview, thank you. I think the only thing worth adding is
> due to Unicode 7.0 and above are a different file format therefore you need
> to be careful you don't accidentally open the sole copy of your soon to be
> released killer app in 7.x.
> 
> You can do all your work in 6.x.y, make a copy, open it in 7.x and see how
> it behaves.
> 
> You can't open in 7.x, do modifications, Save, Quit and then open that
> stack using 6.x.y
> 
> Any modifications done in a 7.x copy would need to be manually transferred
> back into a 6.x.y stack.
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Re: Can you please enlighten me on the LiveCode versions?

[Kay C Lan]

On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 1:17 AM, Richard Gaskin 
wrote:

>
> But if you need stability, the most recent public release build is the
> best bet, as those are the versions the community has tested and can no
> longer find show-stoppers for.
>
> An excellent overview, thank you. I think the only thing worth adding is
due to Unicode 7.0 and above are a different file format therefore you need
to be careful you don't accidentally open the sole copy of your soon to be
released killer app in 7.x.

You can do all your work in 6.x.y, make a copy, open it in 7.x and see how
it behaves.

You can't open in 7.x, do modifications, Save, Quit and then open that
stack using 6.x.y

Any modifications done in a 7.x copy would need to be manually transferred
back into a 6.x.y stack.
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Re: Can you please enlighten me on the LiveCode versions?

[Alejandro Tejada]

Richard Gaskin wrote
> rsync is licensed under GPL 3.0, so RunRev could only integrated its 
> code into the Community Edition.
> 
> But moreover, rsync is freely available to anyone, and is most commonly 
> used through the command line (its pre-installed on Ubuntu and most 
> Linux distros, it's included in Cygwin for Windows, and an older version 
> is included in OS X).  in LiveCode, I use it via the shell function.
> 
> For moving data between local volumes it's great as it is.  When 
> transferring to or from a remote server, it runs over SSH so it'll 
> prompt for a password.  Since LC offers no way to enter a password 
> prompt in SSH, the solution there is something all serious SSH users are 
> probably doing anyway: setting up shared SSH keys.  Once those are in 
> place, SSH, rsync, scp, and much more can be used from LC's shell 
> function gracefully and securely.
> 
> Given all this, how would you envision RunRev integrating rsync?

For example:

Add rsync as an option to this lesson:
http://lessons.runrev.com/m/4071/l/78702-opening-a-stack-from-the-server

go url rsync("http://techsupport.on-rev.com/MainApplication.livecode";)

Using rsync, LiveCode server will send only updated/changed bytes
and LiveCode engine will rebuild the stack/file on memory (or temp folder)
and optionally, save the new stack/file to disk while keeping a backup...

Al



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Re: Can you please enlighten me on the LiveCode versions?

[Richard Gaskin]

Alejandro Tejada wrote:
> rsync! Thanks for reminding me this topic. I knew that something
> was missing when I tested LiveCode Server on Linux and Windows
> (using XAMPP)
>
> http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13701

rsync is licensed under GPL 3.0, so RunRev could only integrated its 
code into the Community Edition.


But moreover, rsync is freely available to anyone, and is most commonly 
used through the command line (its pre-installed on Ubuntu and most 
Linux distros, it's included in Cygwin for Windows, and an older version 
is included in OS X).  in LiveCode, I use it via the shell function.


For moving data between local volumes it's great as it is.  When 
transferring to or from a remote server, it runs over SSH so it'll 
prompt for a password.  Since LC offers no way to enter a password 
prompt in SSH, the solution there is something all serious SSH users are 
probably doing anyway: setting up shared SSH keys.  Once those are in 
place, SSH, rsync, scp, and much more can be used from LC's shell 
function gracefully and securely.


Given all this, how would you envision RunRev integrating rsync?

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Can you please enlighten me on the LiveCode versions?

[Alejandro Tejada]

Richard Gaskin wrote
> Yeah, too many late nights this week, thankfully punctuated with rounds 
> of rsync backups so I can take time to post.

rsync! Thanks for reminding me this topic. I knew that something was missing
when I tested LiveCode Server on Linux and Windows (using XAMPP)

http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13701


Richard Gaskin wrote
> But if I were really good at time management I'd be out camping in the 
> desert right now (October is a great time for the Mojave), rather than 
> at a computer.

Well, nobody could predict (accurately) the future so the best
we can do is just be prepared for the unexpected... :-o

Al




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Re: Can you please enlighten me on the LiveCode versions?

[Richard Gaskin]

Alejandro Tejada wrote:

By the way, When are you going to share your secrets
for time management? Looks like your working days have
36 or 48 hours... :-D


Yeah, too many late nights this week, thankfully punctuated with rounds 
of rsync backups so I can take time to post.


But if I were really good at time management I'd be out camping in the 
desert right now (October is a great time for the Mojave), rather than 
at a computer.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Can you please enlighten me on the LiveCode versions?

[Alejandro Tejada]

Richard Gaskin wrote
> Heather doesn't normally monitor this list, but your questions are 
> similar to ones raised in my local LC user group and elsewhere, so let 
> me don my Community Manager cap and see if I can help answer them:
> [snip]

Your answer was really useful, Richard!
Many, many thanks for posting this.

By the way, When are you going to share your secrets
for time management? Looks like your working days have
36 or 48 hours... :-D

Al



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Re: Can you please enlighten me on the LiveCode versions?

[Richard Gaskin]

Heather doesn't normally monitor this list, but your questions are 
similar to ones raised in my local LC user group and elsewhere, so let 
me don my Community Manager cap and see if I can help answer them:


MCLAWHORN, TONY wrote:

> Heather
>
> I've been searching for some answers but have not found any yet.
> The question is which version of LiveCode should I be using?
> LiveCode 6.6.4 (rc1) was just announced... what about LiveCode
> 7.0 (rc2)?

The current shipping version is v6.6.4, released this morning.

From time to time there are test versions available as well, such as 
we have with v6.7rc2 and v7rc2 currently.


If you have time and interest in helping to test pre-release builds 
(designated with DP and RC on the Downloads page), everyone in the 
community benefits from this so we can all have that much more 
confidence that the final build will meet our needs.


But if you need stability, the most recent public release build is the 
best bet, as those are the versions the community has tested and can no 
longer find show-stoppers for.


You can find all downloads here, with a note at the top distinguishing 
the various release designations:




> I'm just confused as to why LiveCode is putting effort into what
> seems to me to be two parallel programs doing the same thing at
> which at one point I assume they will be phased out and we'll
> have LiveCode 8.0.

It's even a bit more boggling than that:  up until this morning, there 
were a total of four parallel versions in development: 8.0, 7.0, 6.7, 
and 6.6.4.  Now with 6.6.4 out the door we're down to three.


All this may seem daunting, but it's perhaps the biggest benefit of the 
major refactoring that began last year, so the project can now take good 
advantage of GitHub's assistance with managing and merging multiple 
branches of a code base.


Here's a brief outline of these versions, and as you read this please 
keep in mind the benefits of isolating the major scopes of change in 
each one:


Version 8
-
Introduces Open Language, the foundation that makes Widgets, Themes, and 
other key elements of the Kickstarter goals possible.


In short, it allows both the core dev team at RunRev and us in the 
community to do many things in LiveCode that would otherwise need to be 
done in C.  We all enjoy the productivity benefits of using LiveCode's 
high-level scripting language, and Open Language extends that to support 
more core-level work so the range of applicable use cases become much 
broader.


For a sneak peak at where it's headed, see the video in Kevin's blog entry:



Version 7
-
The main emphasis here is Unicode, sweeping in scope when you consider 
that so much of what we do deals with strings, from text parsing to 
object labels and so much more.   With v7 every string - even the 
contents of a variable - is Unicode-aware.  And best of all, for the 
most part this is entirely transparent to us; we just keep using the 
chunk expressions and other language elements as we have, and the engine 
keeps track of the encoding for us.


Additionally, the Linux engine has undergone significant revision for 
tighter integration with GDK, the GUI APIs that drive most Linux 
systems.   While the Linux audience represents only a slender portion of 
license revenue, work on the Linux engine is disproportionately valuable 
to RunRev and all of us by catering to an audience that understands and 
supports open source process.  Indeed, AFAIK thus far the only code 
contributions coming from anyone not already using LiveCode for many 
years have been from Linux users.



Version 6.7
---
The main focus of this version is migrating the Mac LiveCode engine to 
Apple's Cocoa APIs from the deprecated Carbon APIs it had used before. 
With each new version of OS X Apple drops more and more support for 
Carbon, so this had to be done ASAP.   It was a huge task, but has come 
along surprisingly well, resulting in much-improved behavior and 
appearance of LiveCode apps in Mac systems.



Version 6.6.4
-
The whole 6.6.x series merely extends the state of the engine from 6.0, 
with each build containing relatively few enhancements while 
incorporating a great many fixes (over the last year more than 1,360 
reported issues have been fixed).



At this point, just about everything in terms of both new features and 
bug fixes are integrated forward; e.g., everything in 6.7 is also in 
v7.0, with each new version representing a superset of capabilities.




> Any input will greatly relieve my mind and maybe give me better
> info as to which version I need to be using while waiting on
> version 8.0.   By-the-way,  I been waiting for the better part of
> a year waiting for sockets to be available for mobile devices.
> Any hope you can give me on that front?  I really don't want to
> die of old age before I get a chance t

Re: Can you please enlighten me on the LiveCode versions?

[Mark Schonewille]

Hi Tony,

Go to http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ and scroll down to 6.6.4. 
Find the STABLE release and download that. This is what you can use for 
production work.


Sometimes, you need new features that aren't available in 6.6.4 yet. You 
might download an RC of a later version and try it. If it works, you can 
use it, but you may want to avoid using it for official releases of your 
software.


If you need a very new feature (like the new unicode features that are 
available in LiveCode 7), you may try a DP, but you probably don't want 
to use it for production work. However, you may want to test it and see 
if it is useful for future projects. If you think it isn't or if you 
find bugs, you can report those and hopefully the bugs get fixed in the RC.


--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer
KvK: 50277553

Installer Maker for LiveCode:
http://qery.us/468

Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" 
http://qery.us/3fi


LiveCode on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/

On 10/16/2014 18:20, MCLAWHORN, TONY wrote:

Heather

I've been searching for some answers but have not found any yet.  The question 
is which version of LiveCode should I be using?  LiveCode 6.6.4 (rc1) was just 
announced... what about LiveCode 7.0 (rc2)?  I'm just confused as to why 
LiveCode is putting effort into what seems to me to be two parallel programs 
doing the same thing at which at one point I assume they will be phased out and 
we'll have LiveCode 8.0.   Any input will greatly relieve my mind and maybe 
give me better info as to which version I need to be using while waiting on 
version 8.0.   By-the-way,  I been waiting for the better part of a year 
waiting for sockets to be available for mobile devices.  Any hope you can give 
me on that front?  I really don't want to die of old age before I get a chance 
to create apps just waiting for mobile sockets (iOS and Android).  Thanks but 
don't send me info for third party solutions to mobile sockets... tried them 
and they suck.  Got sockets working on Mac/PC and I simply LOVE the w

ay you guys have done this.  Just hoping the implementation on mobile devices 
are going to be similar.


Thanks.




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