Re: Reorder fields

[Geoff Canyon via use-livecode]

Yeah, the three driving forces behind Navigator originally were:

1. Speed, because the alternatives didn't run so quickly for larger
projects on hardware available circa 20 years ago.
2. Compactness, because the alternatives were pretty overwhelming on the
monitors people were using back then.
3. And to your point: showing multiple layers clearly, because there were a
number of former HyperCard users finding it hard to adapt to an environment
with more than one "background". :-)

On Sun, Jul 30, 2023 at 12:24 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Also good time to mention revNavigator where the grouping would be
> immediately obvious and you can drag to reorder.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jul 29, 2023, at 15:22, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > One trick to this is that objects are included into a group if
> > relayerGroupedControls is set to true and the layer of the control is set
> > to the layer above the group. Meaning that if you have this arrangement:
> >
> > stack "Untitled 1"
> > card id 1002
> > |  group id 1005 (1005)
> > |  |  button "Button" (1006)
> > |  |  button "Button" (1004)
> > |  button "Button" (1003)
> > |  button "test" (1007)
> >
> > put the layer of button "test"
> > -- puts 5
> >
> > set relayergroupedcontrols to false;set the layer of button "test" to 4
> >
> > This is now the arrangement:
> >
> > stack "Untitled 1"
> > card id 1002
> > |  group id 1005 (1005)
> > |  |  button "Button" (1006)
> > |  |  button "Button" (1004)
> > |  button "test" (1007)
> > |  button "Button" (1003)
> >
> > put the layer of button "test"
> > -- puts 4
> >
> > Button "test" is immediately above the group, but not in the group
> >
> > set relayergroupedcontrols to true;set the layer of button "test" to 4
> >
> > Now the arrangement is:
> >
> > stack "Untitled 1"
> > card id 1002
> > |  group id 1005 (1005)
> > |  |  button "Button" (1006)
> > |  |  button "Button" (1004)
> > |  |  button "test" (1007)
> > |  button "Button" (1003)
> >
> > put the layer of button "test"
> > -- puts 4
> >
> > The layer of button "test" didn't change, but now it is in the group --
> and
> > the topmost object in the group.
> >
> > I learned this the hard way through much experimentation building
> > Navigator. Getting drag-and-drop relayering right with selection of
> > multiple objects, and discontiguous selections, in and out of groups, is
> > *painful*, and I've done it several times now...
> >
> >> On Sat, Jul 29, 2023 at 10:46 AM Martin Koob via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi MarkwI did not see your later post that the fields were grouped.  My
> >> scenario was just the most basic case of fields on a card.  I guess it
> >> would work if all the fields were in 1 group but having fields in
> different
> >> groups certainly complicates things. Cool solution though.  I wasn’t
> aware
> >> of the relayerGroupedControls option.  Reading the entry in the
> Dictionary
> >> I learned some interesting things about groups and layers.
> >> e.g. you can move an object out of a group by setting its layer above
> the
> >> layer of the topmost object in the group or conversely  setting it below
> >> the bottommost object in the group. Hmmm…. What could you do with that?
> >>
> >> True the old brain needs a bit of a work out once in a while to keep the
> >> neurons running.  Thanks for posting your question.
> >>
> >> Martin
> >>
>  On Jul 29, 2023, at 11:00 AM, Mark Smith 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On 29 Jul 2023, at 3:27 pm, Martin Koob via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com >
> >> wrote:
> 
>  The two ways I have used are either with the property inspector  or by
> >> script.
> 
>  Property Inspector
>  - click the ‘Position’ tab of the property inspector
>  - Change the number in the ‘Layer’ field either directly or by using
> >> the arrow keys.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks Martin, but as noted, "items won’t relayer if they are grouped
> >> and “relayingGroupedControls" is set to false. That was exactly the
> >> situation I was in. In my case, field A was grouped with label A, etc so
> >> attempting to relayer them failed. I didn’t notice they were grouped
> >> because Select Grouped was not chosen in the menu bar. With Select
> Grouped
> >> chosen it’s easy to see the label-field grouping, and then to relayer
> the
> >> groups (not the fields inside the groups) if need be. Or, you can use
> the
> >> PB to do this by just dragging the groups around to relayer them.
> Finally,
> >> there’s a property called relayerGroupedControls which will allow you to
> >> relayer objects inside a group. If that had of been “true” instead of
> the
> >> default “false” I would have been able to relayer them in the first
> >> instance. But you have to be careful with this option as it can also
> revise
> >> the grouping. BTW, I just tried it 

Re: Reorder fields

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Also good time to mention revNavigator where the grouping would be immediately 
obvious and you can drag to reorder. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 29, 2023, at 15:22, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> One trick to this is that objects are included into a group if
> relayerGroupedControls is set to true and the layer of the control is set
> to the layer above the group. Meaning that if you have this arrangement:
> 
> stack "Untitled 1"
> card id 1002
> |  group id 1005 (1005)
> |  |  button "Button" (1006)
> |  |  button "Button" (1004)
> |  button "Button" (1003)
> |  button "test" (1007)
> 
> put the layer of button "test"
> -- puts 5
> 
> set relayergroupedcontrols to false;set the layer of button "test" to 4
> 
> This is now the arrangement:
> 
> stack "Untitled 1"
> card id 1002
> |  group id 1005 (1005)
> |  |  button "Button" (1006)
> |  |  button "Button" (1004)
> |  button "test" (1007)
> |  button "Button" (1003)
> 
> put the layer of button "test"
> -- puts 4
> 
> Button "test" is immediately above the group, but not in the group
> 
> set relayergroupedcontrols to true;set the layer of button "test" to 4
> 
> Now the arrangement is:
> 
> stack "Untitled 1"
> card id 1002
> |  group id 1005 (1005)
> |  |  button "Button" (1006)
> |  |  button "Button" (1004)
> |  |  button "test" (1007)
> |  button "Button" (1003)
> 
> put the layer of button "test"
> -- puts 4
> 
> The layer of button "test" didn't change, but now it is in the group -- and
> the topmost object in the group.
> 
> I learned this the hard way through much experimentation building
> Navigator. Getting drag-and-drop relayering right with selection of
> multiple objects, and discontiguous selections, in and out of groups, is
> *painful*, and I've done it several times now...
> 
>> On Sat, Jul 29, 2023 at 10:46 AM Martin Koob via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi MarkwI did not see your later post that the fields were grouped.  My
>> scenario was just the most basic case of fields on a card.  I guess it
>> would work if all the fields were in 1 group but having fields in different
>> groups certainly complicates things. Cool solution though.  I wasn’t aware
>> of the relayerGroupedControls option.  Reading the entry in the Dictionary
>> I learned some interesting things about groups and layers.
>> e.g. you can move an object out of a group by setting its layer above the
>> layer of the topmost object in the group or conversely  setting it below
>> the bottommost object in the group. Hmmm…. What could you do with that?
>> 
>> True the old brain needs a bit of a work out once in a while to keep the
>> neurons running.  Thanks for posting your question.
>> 
>> Martin
>> 
 On Jul 29, 2023, at 11:00 AM, Mark Smith  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 29 Jul 2023, at 3:27 pm, Martin Koob via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com >
>> wrote:
 
 The two ways I have used are either with the property inspector  or by
>> script.
 
 Property Inspector
 - click the ‘Position’ tab of the property inspector
 - Change the number in the ‘Layer’ field either directly or by using
>> the arrow keys.
>>> 
>>> Thanks Martin, but as noted, "items won’t relayer if they are grouped
>> and “relayingGroupedControls" is set to false. That was exactly the
>> situation I was in. In my case, field A was grouped with label A, etc so
>> attempting to relayer them failed. I didn’t notice they were grouped
>> because Select Grouped was not chosen in the menu bar. With Select Grouped
>> chosen it’s easy to see the label-field grouping, and then to relayer the
>> groups (not the fields inside the groups) if need be. Or, you can use the
>> PB to do this by just dragging the groups around to relayer them. Finally,
>> there’s a property called relayerGroupedControls which will allow you to
>> relayer objects inside a group. If that had of been “true” instead of the
>> default “false” I would have been able to relayer them in the first
>> instance. But you have to be careful with this option as it can also revise
>> the grouping. BTW, I just tried it (grouped the labels and fields, set the
>> relayerGroupedControls option to true, turned off Select Grouped) and I was
>> able to select the individual fields and relayer them using the Layer field
>> in the Property Inspector. Kinda cool but my goodness you really have to
>> know your stuff to make that manoeuvre happen.
>>> 
>>> But also thank you for the opportunity to discuss this further. It helps
>> with the encoding of this new information into my ageing brain  And also,
>> if I got any of it wrong, please correct me.
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 

Re: Reorder fields

[Geoff Canyon via use-livecode]

One trick to this is that objects are included into a group if
relayerGroupedControls is set to true and the layer of the control is set
to the layer above the group. Meaning that if you have this arrangement:

stack "Untitled 1"
card id 1002
|  group id 1005 (1005)
|  |  button "Button" (1006)
|  |  button "Button" (1004)
|  button "Button" (1003)
|  button "test" (1007)

put the layer of button "test"
-- puts 5

set relayergroupedcontrols to false;set the layer of button "test" to 4

This is now the arrangement:

stack "Untitled 1"
card id 1002
|  group id 1005 (1005)
|  |  button "Button" (1006)
|  |  button "Button" (1004)
|  button "test" (1007)
|  button "Button" (1003)

put the layer of button "test"
-- puts 4

Button "test" is immediately above the group, but not in the group

set relayergroupedcontrols to true;set the layer of button "test" to 4

Now the arrangement is:

stack "Untitled 1"
card id 1002
|  group id 1005 (1005)
|  |  button "Button" (1006)
|  |  button "Button" (1004)
|  |  button "test" (1007)
|  button "Button" (1003)

put the layer of button "test"
-- puts 4

The layer of button "test" didn't change, but now it is in the group -- and
the topmost object in the group.

I learned this the hard way through much experimentation building
Navigator. Getting drag-and-drop relayering right with selection of
multiple objects, and discontiguous selections, in and out of groups, is
*painful*, and I've done it several times now...

On Sat, Jul 29, 2023 at 10:46 AM Martin Koob via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi MarkwI did not see your later post that the fields were grouped.  My
> scenario was just the most basic case of fields on a card.  I guess it
> would work if all the fields were in 1 group but having fields in different
> groups certainly complicates things. Cool solution though.  I wasn’t aware
> of the relayerGroupedControls option.  Reading the entry in the Dictionary
> I learned some interesting things about groups and layers.
> e.g. you can move an object out of a group by setting its layer above the
> layer of the topmost object in the group or conversely  setting it below
> the bottommost object in the group. Hmmm…. What could you do with that?
>
> True the old brain needs a bit of a work out once in a while to keep the
> neurons running.  Thanks for posting your question.
>
> Martin
>
> > On Jul 29, 2023, at 11:00 AM, Mark Smith  wrote:
> >
> > On 29 Jul 2023, at 3:27 pm, Martin Koob via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com >
> wrote:
> >>
> >> The two ways I have used are either with the property inspector  or by
> script.
> >>
> >> Property Inspector
> >> - click the ‘Position’ tab of the property inspector
> >> - Change the number in the ‘Layer’ field either directly or by using
> the arrow keys.
> >
> > Thanks Martin, but as noted, "items won’t relayer if they are grouped
> and “relayingGroupedControls" is set to false. That was exactly the
> situation I was in. In my case, field A was grouped with label A, etc so
> attempting to relayer them failed. I didn’t notice they were grouped
> because Select Grouped was not chosen in the menu bar. With Select Grouped
> chosen it’s easy to see the label-field grouping, and then to relayer the
> groups (not the fields inside the groups) if need be. Or, you can use the
> PB to do this by just dragging the groups around to relayer them. Finally,
> there’s a property called relayerGroupedControls which will allow you to
> relayer objects inside a group. If that had of been “true” instead of the
> default “false” I would have been able to relayer them in the first
> instance. But you have to be careful with this option as it can also revise
> the grouping. BTW, I just tried it (grouped the labels and fields, set the
> relayerGroupedControls option to true, turned off Select Grouped) and I was
> able to select the individual fields and relayer them using the Layer field
> in the Property Inspector. Kinda cool but my goodness you really have to
> know your stuff to make that manoeuvre happen.
> >
> > But also thank you for the opportunity to discuss this further. It helps
> with the encoding of this new information into my ageing brain  And also,
> if I got any of it wrong, please correct me.
> >
> > Mark
> >
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
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Re: Reorder fields

[Martin Koob via use-livecode]

Hi MarkwI did not see your later post that the fields were grouped.  My 
scenario was just the most basic case of fields on a card.  I guess it would 
work if all the fields were in 1 group but having fields in different groups 
certainly complicates things. Cool solution though.  I wasn’t aware of the 
relayerGroupedControls option.  Reading the entry in the Dictionary I learned 
some interesting things about groups and layers.   
e.g. you can move an object out of a group by setting its layer above the layer 
of the topmost object in the group or conversely  setting it below the 
bottommost object in the group. Hmmm…. What could you do with that?

True the old brain needs a bit of a work out once in a while to keep the 
neurons running.  Thanks for posting your question.

Martin

> On Jul 29, 2023, at 11:00 AM, Mark Smith  wrote:
> 
> On 29 Jul 2023, at 3:27 pm, Martin Koob via use-livecode 
> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> The two ways I have used are either with the property inspector  or by 
>> script.
>> 
>> Property Inspector
>> - click the ‘Position’ tab of the property inspector
>> - Change the number in the ‘Layer’ field either directly or by using the 
>> arrow keys.
> 
> Thanks Martin, but as noted, "items won’t relayer if they are grouped and 
> “relayingGroupedControls" is set to false. That was exactly the situation I 
> was in. In my case, field A was grouped with label A, etc so attempting to 
> relayer them failed. I didn’t notice they were grouped because Select Grouped 
> was not chosen in the menu bar. With Select Grouped chosen it’s easy to see 
> the label-field grouping, and then to relayer the groups (not the fields 
> inside the groups) if need be. Or, you can use the PB to do this by just 
> dragging the groups around to relayer them. Finally, there’s a property 
> called relayerGroupedControls which will allow you to relayer objects inside 
> a group. If that had of been “true” instead of the default “false” I would 
> have been able to relayer them in the first instance. But you have to be 
> careful with this option as it can also revise the grouping. BTW, I just 
> tried it (grouped the labels and fields, set the relayerGroupedControls 
> option to true, turned off Select Grouped) and I was able to select the 
> individual fields and relayer them using the Layer field in the Property 
> Inspector. Kinda cool but my goodness you really have to know your stuff to 
> make that manoeuvre happen. 
> 
> But also thank you for the opportunity to discuss this further. It helps with 
> the encoding of this new information into my ageing brain  And also, if I 
> got any of it wrong, please correct me. 
> 
> Mark
> 

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Re: Reorder fields

[Mark Smith via use-livecode]

On 29 Jul 2023, at 3:27 pm, Martin Koob via use-livecode 
 wrote:
> 
> The two ways I have used are either with the property inspector  or by script.
> 
> Property Inspector
> - click the ‘Position’ tab of the property inspector
> - Change the number in the ‘Layer’ field either directly or by using the 
> arrow keys.

Thanks Martin, but as noted, "items won’t relayer if they are grouped and 
“relayingGroupedControls" is set to false. That was exactly the situation I was 
in. In my case, field A was grouped with label A, etc so attempting to relayer 
them failed. I didn’t notice they were grouped because Select Grouped was not 
chosen in the menu bar. With Select Grouped chosen it’s easy to see the 
label-field grouping, and then to relayer the groups (not the fields inside the 
groups) if need be. Or, you can use the PB to do this by just dragging the 
groups around to relayer them. Finally, there’s a property called 
relayerGroupedControls which will allow you to relayer objects inside a group. 
If that had of been “true” instead of the default “false” I would have been 
able to relayer them in the first instance. But you have to be careful with 
this option as it can also revise the grouping. BTW, I just tried it (grouped 
the labels and fields, set the relayerGroupedControls option to true, turned 
off Select Grouped) and I was able to select the individual fields and relayer 
them using the Layer field in the Property Inspector. Kinda cool but my 
goodness you really have to know your stuff to make that manoeuvre happen. 

But also thank you for the opportunity to discuss this further. It helps with 
the encoding of this new information into my ageing brain  And also, if I got 
any of it wrong, please correct me. 

Mark

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Re: Reorder fields

[Martin Koob via use-livecode]

Hi

The tab order will follow the field’s layer from lowest to highest. (Or from 
highest to lowest if you hold down the SHIFT key while tabbing just like other 
apps.)

So as you said with your original fields they will tab in this order.

field “a" - Layer 9
field ”c" - Layer 12
field “b" - Layer 15

Craig you said...

> whereas changing the layer order explicitly does not (work)


How were you trying to change the layer?

I didn’t know that dragging in the project browser works to order the objects.  
I will have to check that out.


The two ways I have used are either with the property inspector  or by script.

Property Inspector
- click the ‘Position’ tab of the property inspector
- Change the number in the ‘Layer’ field either directly or by using the arrow 
keys.

In your case I would first select field ‘b’ and then bump up its layer to 10.

field “a" - Layer 9
field “b" - Layer 10
field ”c" - Layer 12

Then I would first select field c’ and then bump up its layer to 11. This is to 
prevent the focus going to object with layer 11 before going to object with 
later 12.  The user will think the tab key did not work and have to tab again.

field “a" - Layer 9
field “b" - Layer 10
field ”c" - Layer 11

That of course will reorder tabbing behaviour or overlapping of other objects 
between layer 9 and 15 which may or may not lead to unwanted results.

Sometimes it can get crazy trying to figure out the order that is correct.

Here is a script you can use to quickly show the fields’ layers as their values 
and put the fields names in their tooltips.

command showFieldsLayers

 repeat with tfieldNumber = 1 to the number of fields of this card

  put "Layer: " & the layer of field tfieldNumber into field 
tfieldNumber

  set the tooltip of field tfieldNumber to the name of field 
tfieldNumber

 end repeat

end showFieldsLayers



Set Layer by Script

The other way to set the layer of an object is to do it by script in the 
message box.

 set the layer of field "A" to 3


Have a good weekend all.


Martin Koob


> On Jul 28, 2023, at 11:17 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Why does, as Paul suggests, changing the layer order in the Project Browser 
> work, whereas changing the layer order explicitly does not? We know that 
> layers cannot be assigned to a particular object class (like fields) but 
> include all controls at once. Is it possible that the layer order of the 
> fields only was not properly grokked?
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Jul 28, 2023, at 10:19 AM, Mark Smith via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks Paul. That is one of those super helpful tips that is hard to 
>> discover on your own. 1 day we need an easily searchable wiki for all this 
>> acquired wisdom (but for now I have tucked it away for future reference). 
>> Thanks for replying.
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> 
>>> On 28 Jul 2023, at 3:00 pm, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> You can change the layer (order) in the Project Browser in the IDE by just 
>>> dragging the objects up or down the list of objects on the card.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 7/28/2023 6:19 AM, Mark Smith via use-livecode wrote:
 How do you reorder fields? I have a form (prebuilt) with 3 fields (a,b,c) 
 in positions 9, 15, 12 (as indicated by the Layer field in the Position 
 tab). Tabbing cause these fields to be visited in the order a, c, b 
 whereas I would prefer a, b, c. I have tried all manner of editing the 
 Layer field to make them be in that order with no success, I’ve variously 
 tried new orders: 9,10,11 or 14,15,16 or even 20,21,22 but nothing seems 
 to affect their order. It always returns to 9, 15, 12. Lock size and 
 position is not checked. I’ve even tried doing this with the Number field 
 in the Advanced tab, also without success. Ok, I did find a solution but 
 while it was easy for me, it might not be as easy on a more complicated 
 form. I deleted all 3 fields. Recreated field A (which was given the 
 starting position of 11) then copy pasted two more times creating fields 
 12 and 13. So this satisfies my reorder interest, but seems to me a rather 
 cumbersome and unnecessary procedure (if for no other reason than deleting 
 fields also deletes all of the “custom” settings on the fields which 
 doubles or triples the amount of effort involved). Maybe I am missing 
 something more obvious?
 
 Thanks
 
 
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>>> 
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>>> subscription preferences:
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Re: Reorder fields

[Mark Smith via use-livecode]

Thanks Geoff. Very interesting. That was, of course, my problem. The items were 
grouped and the relayerGroupedControls property was false. Changing it to true 
immediately made it possible to relayer the controls. I feel like I’ve just 
been introduced to huge component of livecode that I never knew existed (and 
thought was only available in one place in the IDE). There are rules here, and 
not just a few. First, items won’t relayer if they are grouped and 
relayingGroupedControls is set to false. If set to true then you can relayer 
them, but keep in mind a side effect (as I experienced) is it might change the 
grouping. However, if you toggle "select grouped" in the IDE you’ll visually 
see what is grouped, and you can relayer those groups if that achieves your 
purpose. In the case of just changing the tab order you have several options: 
you can change the relayerGroupedControls to true, you can ungroup the items 
and change the layer on the positions tab in the properties inspector or you 
can use the project browser to drag items around to relayer them (as this has 
the advantage of showing (more clearly) what items are grouped). Terrific 
information to know. Thank you everyone.

Geoff, I’ve never played with Navigator but from the sounds of it you’ve kept 
it updated. Is it still available?

Mark

> On 28 Jul 2023, at 11:20 pm, Geoff Canyon  wrote:
> 
> Also check out the relayerGroupedControls property. It probably would have 
> led to even greater confusion in this instance, but it's good to know about 
> it and what it does. From the dictionary: "Specifies whether you can change 
> the layer of controls in a group even if not in group-editing mode."
> 
> I don't know how it works in the Project Browser, but in Navigator I set it 
> to true before attempting any relayering, so in Navigator by default it's 
> possible to relayer controls in groups, and into and out of groups, by 
> dragging them.
> 
> On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 7:06 AM Mark Smith via use-livecode 
> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
> You hit the nail on the head. Select grouped was not selected so each field / 
> label looked independent (and could be independently selected). But in fact 
> they were grouped. With select grouped off the fields could not be 
> rearranged. Turning it on enabled layering the groups (containing the fields) 
> in the correct order. Because its not obvious the fields are grouped I never 
> think to check that option (this is not my stack but someone else’s. Probably 
> at some point there was a point to grouping them together… maybe during the 
> design phase). It’s all working now. And Pauls suggestion of checking the PB 
> was useful in “seeing” that each fields label and field was grouped (even 
> without the select grouped icon being toggled on). 
> 
> Thanks to all.
> Mark
> 
> > On 28 Jul 2023, at 5:27 pm, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
> > mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > You can toggle what gets selected with the "Select Grouped" icon in the top 
> > toolbar.
> > --
> > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com 
> > 
> > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com 
> > 
> > On July 28, 2023 10:53:08 AM Mark Smith via use-livecode 
> > mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> 
> > wrote:
> > 
> >> Well, this might explain it. The original designer had grouped the labels 
> >> and the fields into groups (so label A and field A into grp A, etc). I was 
> >> trying to change the order of the fields, (oddly, when you Please visit 
> >> this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
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> >> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
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Re: Reorder fields

[Geoff Canyon via use-livecode]

Also check out the relayerGroupedControls property. It probably would have
led to even greater confusion in this instance, but it's good to know about
it and what it does. From the dictionary: "Specifies whether you can change
the layer of controls in a group even if not in group-editing mode."

I don't know how it works in the Project Browser, but in Navigator I set it
to true before attempting any relayering, so in Navigator by default it's
possible to relayer controls in groups, and into and out of groups, by
dragging them.

On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 7:06 AM Mark Smith via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> You hit the nail on the head. Select grouped was not selected so each
> field / label looked independent (and could be independently selected). But
> in fact they were grouped. With select grouped off the fields could not be
> rearranged. Turning it on enabled layering the groups (containing the
> fields) in the correct order. Because its not obvious the fields are
> grouped I never think to check that option (this is not my stack but
> someone else’s. Probably at some point there was a point to grouping them
> together… maybe during the design phase). It’s all working now. And Pauls
> suggestion of checking the PB was useful in “seeing” that each fields label
> and field was grouped (even without the select grouped icon being toggled
> on).
>
> Thanks to all.
> Mark
>
> > On 28 Jul 2023, at 5:27 pm, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > You can toggle what gets selected with the "Select Grouped" icon in the
> top toolbar.
> > --
> > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> > On July 28, 2023 10:53:08 AM Mark Smith via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Well, this might explain it. The original designer had grouped the
> labels and the fields into groups (so label A and field A into grp A, etc).
> I was trying to change the order of the fields, (oddly, when you Please
> visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> >
> >
> >
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Re: Reorder fields

[Mark Smith via use-livecode]

You hit the nail on the head. Select grouped was not selected so each field / 
label looked independent (and could be independently selected). But in fact 
they were grouped. With select grouped off the fields could not be rearranged. 
Turning it on enabled layering the groups (containing the fields) in the 
correct order. Because its not obvious the fields are grouped I never think to 
check that option (this is not my stack but someone else’s. Probably at some 
point there was a point to grouping them together… maybe during the design 
phase). It’s all working now. And Pauls suggestion of checking the PB was 
useful in “seeing” that each fields label and field was grouped (even without 
the select grouped icon being toggled on). 

Thanks to all.
Mark

> On 28 Jul 2023, at 5:27 pm, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> You can toggle what gets selected with the "Select Grouped" icon in the top 
> toolbar.
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On July 28, 2023 10:53:08 AM Mark Smith via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
>> Well, this might explain it. The original designer had grouped the labels 
>> and the fields into groups (so label A and field A into grp A, etc). I was 
>> trying to change the order of the fields, (oddly, when you Please visit this 
>> url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Reorder fields

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

You can toggle what gets selected with the "Select Grouped" icon in the top 
toolbar.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On July 28, 2023 10:53:08 AM Mark Smith via use-livecode 
 wrote:


Well, this might explain it. The original designer had grouped the labels 
and the fields into groups (so label A and field A into grp A, etc). I was 
trying to change the order of the fields, (oddly, when you select the label 
or the field on the form it does not select a group, so I never realised 
the grouping existed). Using the project browser to select each group the 
order was 8, 14, 11. I used Pauls trick to move grp 11 above 14 and that 
satisfied the reorder. But, I also tried and successfully used the Layer 
field in the Inspector to change the group ordering (in this case to 8, 14, 
15) and achieved the same effect. It was a bit more complicated because I 
had to use the PB to select the grp and then open the inspector for that 
group to change the layer.


Très compliqué, non!



On 28 Jul 2023, at 4:17 pm, Craig Newman via use-livecode 
 wrote:


Why does, as Paul suggests, changing the layer order in the Project Browser 
work, whereas changing the layer order explicitly does not? We know that 
layers cannot be assigned to a particular object class (like fields) but 
include all controls at once. Is it possible that the layer order of the 
fields only was not properly grokked?


Craig

On Jul 28, 2023, at 10:19 AM, Mark Smith via use-livecode 
 wrote:


Thanks Paul. That is one of those super helpful tips that is hard to 
discover on your own. 1 day we need an easily searchable wiki for all this 
acquired wisdom (but for now I have tucked it away for future reference). 
Thanks for replying.


Mark


On 28 Jul 2023, at 3:00 pm, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
 wrote:


You can change the layer (order) in the Project Browser in the IDE by just 
dragging the objects up or down the list of objects on the card.



On 7/28/2023 6:19 AM, Mark Smith via use-livecode wrote:
How do you reorder fields? I have a form (prebuilt) with 3 fields (a,b,c) 
in positions 9, 15, 12 (as indicated by the Layer field in the Position 
tab). Tabbing cause these fields to be visited in the order a, c, b whereas 
I would prefer a, b, c. I have tried all manner of editing the Layer field 
to make them be in that order with no success, I’ve variously tried new 
orders: 9,10,11 or 14,15,16 or even 20,21,22 but nothing seems to affect 
their order. It always returns to 9, 15, 12. Lock size and position is not 
checked. I’ve even tried doing this with the Number field in the Advanced 
tab, also without success. Ok, I did find a solution but while it was easy 
for me, it might not be as easy on a more complicated form. I deleted all 3 
fields. Recreated field A (which was given the starting position of 11) 
then copy pasted two more times creating fields 12 and 13. So this 
satisfies my reorder interest, but seems to me a rather cumbersome and 
unnecessary procedure (if for no other reason than deleting fields also 
deletes all of the “custom” settings on the fields which doubles or triples 
the amount of effort involved). Maybe I am missing something more obvious?


Thanks


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Re: Reorder fields

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

Layering works in the property inspector for me. The clue is that any layer 
you set moves everything above that layer one position higher. So if I want 
field b to layer lower than field c, I would set b's layer to what is 
currently c's layer. That would push c to one layer higher than b.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On July 28, 2023 10:20:23 AM Craig Newman via use-livecode 
 wrote:


Why does, as Paul suggests, changing the layer order in the Project Browser 
work, whereas changing the layer order explicitly does not? We know that 
layers cannot be assigned to a particular object class (like fields) but 
include all controls at once. Is it possible that the layer order of the 
fields only was not properly grokked?


Craig

On Jul 28, 2023, at 10:19 AM, Mark Smith via use-livecode 
 wrote:


Thanks Paul. That is one of those super helpful tips that is hard to 
discover on your own. 1 day we need an easily searchable wiki for all this 
acquired wisdom (but for now I have tucked it away for future reference). 
Thanks for replying.


Mark


On 28 Jul 2023, at 3:00 pm, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
 wrote:


You can change the layer (order) in the Project Browser in the IDE by just 
dragging the objects up or down the list of objects on the card.



On 7/28/2023 6:19 AM, Mark Smith via use-livecode wrote:
How do you reorder fields? I have a form (prebuilt) with 3 fields (a,b,c) 
in positions 9, 15, 12 (as indicated by the Layer field in the Position 
tab). Tabbing cause these fields to be visited in the order a, c, b whereas 
I would prefer a, b, c. I have tried all manner of editing the Layer field 
to make them be in that order with no success, I’ve variously tried new 
orders: 9,10,11 or 14,15,16 or even 20,21,22 but nothing seems to affect 
their order. It always returns to 9, 15, 12. Lock size and position is not 
checked. I’ve even tried doing this with the Number field in the Advanced 
tab, also without success. Ok, I did find a solution but while it was easy 
for me, it might not be as easy on a more complicated form. I deleted all 3 
fields. Recreated field A (which was given the starting position of 11) 
then copy pasted two more times creating fields 12 and 13. So this 
satisfies my reorder interest, but seems to me a rather cumbersome and 
unnecessary procedure (if for no other reason than deleting fields also 
deletes all of the “custom” settings on the fields which doubles or triples 
the amount of effort involved). Maybe I am missing something more obvious?


Thanks


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Re: Reorder fields

[Mark Smith via use-livecode]

Well, this might explain it. The original designer had grouped the labels and 
the fields into groups (so label A and field A into grp A, etc). I was trying 
to change the order of the fields, (oddly, when you select the label or the 
field on the form it does not select a group, so I never realised the grouping 
existed). Using the project browser to select each group the order was 8, 14, 
11. I used Pauls trick to move grp 11 above 14 and that satisfied the reorder. 
But, I also tried and successfully used the Layer field in the Inspector to 
change the group ordering (in this case to 8, 14, 15) and achieved the same 
effect. It was a bit more complicated because I had to use the PB to select the 
grp and then open the inspector for that group to change the layer. 

Très compliqué, non!



> On 28 Jul 2023, at 4:17 pm, Craig Newman via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Why does, as Paul suggests, changing the layer order in the Project Browser 
> work, whereas changing the layer order explicitly does not? We know that 
> layers cannot be assigned to a particular object class (like fields) but 
> include all controls at once. Is it possible that the layer order of the 
> fields only was not properly grokked?
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Jul 28, 2023, at 10:19 AM, Mark Smith via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks Paul. That is one of those super helpful tips that is hard to 
>> discover on your own. 1 day we need an easily searchable wiki for all this 
>> acquired wisdom (but for now I have tucked it away for future reference). 
>> Thanks for replying.
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> 
>>> On 28 Jul 2023, at 3:00 pm, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> You can change the layer (order) in the Project Browser in the IDE by just 
>>> dragging the objects up or down the list of objects on the card.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 7/28/2023 6:19 AM, Mark Smith via use-livecode wrote:
 How do you reorder fields? I have a form (prebuilt) with 3 fields (a,b,c) 
 in positions 9, 15, 12 (as indicated by the Layer field in the Position 
 tab). Tabbing cause these fields to be visited in the order a, c, b 
 whereas I would prefer a, b, c. I have tried all manner of editing the 
 Layer field to make them be in that order with no success, I’ve variously 
 tried new orders: 9,10,11 or 14,15,16 or even 20,21,22 but nothing seems 
 to affect their order. It always returns to 9, 15, 12. Lock size and 
 position is not checked. I’ve even tried doing this with the Number field 
 in the Advanced tab, also without success. Ok, I did find a solution but 
 while it was easy for me, it might not be as easy on a more complicated 
 form. I deleted all 3 fields. Recreated field A (which was given the 
 starting position of 11) then copy pasted two more times creating fields 
 12 and 13. So this satisfies my reorder interest, but seems to me a rather 
 cumbersome and unnecessary procedure (if for no other reason than deleting 
 fields also deletes all of the “custom” settings on the fields which 
 doubles or triples the amount of effort involved). Maybe I am missing 
 something more obvious?
 
 Thanks
 
 
 ___
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 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
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 subscription preferences:
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
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Re: Reorder fields

[Craig Newman via use-livecode]

Why does, as Paul suggests, changing the layer order in the Project Browser 
work, whereas changing the layer order explicitly does not? We know that layers 
cannot be assigned to a particular object class (like fields) but include all 
controls at once. Is it possible that the layer order of the fields only was 
not properly grokked?

Craig

> On Jul 28, 2023, at 10:19 AM, Mark Smith via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thanks Paul. That is one of those super helpful tips that is hard to discover 
> on your own. 1 day we need an easily searchable wiki for all this acquired 
> wisdom (but for now I have tucked it away for future reference). Thanks for 
> replying.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
>> On 28 Jul 2023, at 3:00 pm, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> You can change the layer (order) in the Project Browser in the IDE by just 
>> dragging the objects up or down the list of objects on the card.
>> 
>> 
>> On 7/28/2023 6:19 AM, Mark Smith via use-livecode wrote:
>>> How do you reorder fields? I have a form (prebuilt) with 3 fields (a,b,c) 
>>> in positions 9, 15, 12 (as indicated by the Layer field in the Position 
>>> tab). Tabbing cause these fields to be visited in the order a, c, b whereas 
>>> I would prefer a, b, c. I have tried all manner of editing the Layer field 
>>> to make them be in that order with no success, I’ve variously tried new 
>>> orders: 9,10,11 or 14,15,16 or even 20,21,22 but nothing seems to affect 
>>> their order. It always returns to 9, 15, 12. Lock size and position is not 
>>> checked. I’ve even tried doing this with the Number field in the Advanced 
>>> tab, also without success. Ok, I did find a solution but while it was easy 
>>> for me, it might not be as easy on a more complicated form. I deleted all 3 
>>> fields. Recreated field A (which was given the starting position of 11) 
>>> then copy pasted two more times creating fields 12 and 13. So this 
>>> satisfies my reorder interest, but seems to me a rather cumbersome and 
>>> unnecessary procedure (if for no other reason than deleting fields also 
>>> deletes all of the “custom” settings on the fields which doubles or triples 
>>> the amount of effort involved). Maybe I am missing something more obvious?
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: Reorder fields

[Mark Smith via use-livecode]

Thanks Paul. That is one of those super helpful tips that is hard to discover 
on your own. 1 day we need an easily searchable wiki for all this acquired 
wisdom (but for now I have tucked it away for future reference). Thanks for 
replying.

Mark


> On 28 Jul 2023, at 3:00 pm, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> You can change the layer (order) in the Project Browser in the IDE by just 
> dragging the objects up or down the list of objects on the card.
> 
> 
> On 7/28/2023 6:19 AM, Mark Smith via use-livecode wrote:
>> How do you reorder fields? I have a form (prebuilt) with 3 fields (a,b,c) in 
>> positions 9, 15, 12 (as indicated by the Layer field in the Position tab). 
>> Tabbing cause these fields to be visited in the order a, c, b whereas I 
>> would prefer a, b, c. I have tried all manner of editing the Layer field to 
>> make them be in that order with no success, I’ve variously tried new orders: 
>> 9,10,11 or 14,15,16 or even 20,21,22 but nothing seems to affect their 
>> order. It always returns to 9, 15, 12. Lock size and position is not 
>> checked. I’ve even tried doing this with the Number field in the Advanced 
>> tab, also without success. Ok, I did find a solution but while it was easy 
>> for me, it might not be as easy on a more complicated form. I deleted all 3 
>> fields. Recreated field A (which was given the starting position of 11) then 
>> copy pasted two more times creating fields 12 and 13. So this satisfies my 
>> reorder interest, but seems to me a rather cumbersome and unnecessary 
>> procedure (if for no other reason than deleting fields also deletes all of 
>> the “custom” settings on the fields which doubles or triples the amount of 
>> effort involved). Maybe I am missing something more obvious?
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> 
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Re: Reorder fields

[Paul Dupuis via use-livecode]

You can change the layer (order) in the Project Browser in the IDE by 
just dragging the objects up or down the list of objects on the card.



On 7/28/2023 6:19 AM, Mark Smith via use-livecode wrote:

How do you reorder fields? I have a form (prebuilt) with 3 fields (a,b,c) in 
positions 9, 15, 12 (as indicated by the Layer field in the Position tab). 
Tabbing cause these fields to be visited in the order a, c, b whereas I would 
prefer a, b, c. I have tried all manner of editing the Layer field to make them 
be in that order with no success, I’ve variously tried new orders: 9,10,11 or 
14,15,16 or even 20,21,22 but nothing seems to affect their order. It always 
returns to 9, 15, 12. Lock size and position is not checked. I’ve even tried 
doing this with the Number field in the Advanced tab, also without success. Ok, 
I did find a solution but while it was easy for me, it might not be as easy on 
a more complicated form. I deleted all 3 fields. Recreated field A (which was 
given the starting position of 11) then copy pasted two more times creating 
fields 12 and 13. So this satisfies my reorder interest, but seems to me a 
rather cumbersome and unnecessary procedure (if for no other reason than 
deleting fields also deletes all of the “custom” settings on the fields which 
doubles or triples the amount of effort involved). Maybe I am missing something 
more obvious?

Thanks


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Re: Reorder fields

[Craig Newman via use-livecode]

I was sloppy, as usual. Trap the message in the card, and use the target to 
know where you are and where to go next.

Craig

> On Jul 28, 2023, at 9:36 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi.
> 
> Not sure why the tabbing order seems to be out of whack, but you can always 
> force the issue by trapping the tabKey message in each field, and directing 
> it to the next one of you own choice.
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Jul 28, 2023, at 6:19 AM, Mark Smith via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> How do you reorder fields? I have a form (prebuilt) with 3 fields (a,b,c) in 
>> positions 9, 15, 12 (as indicated by the Layer field in the Position tab). 
>> Tabbing cause these fields to be visited in the order a, c, b whereas I 
>> would prefer a, b, c. I have tried all manner of editing the Layer field to 
>> make them be in that order with no success, I’ve variously tried new orders: 
>> 9,10,11 or 14,15,16 or even 20,21,22 but nothing seems to affect their 
>> order. It always returns to 9, 15, 12. Lock size and position is not 
>> checked. I’ve even tried doing this with the Number field in the Advanced 
>> tab, also without success. Ok, I did find a solution but while it was easy 
>> for me, it might not be as easy on a more complicated form. I deleted all 3 
>> fields. Recreated field A (which was given the starting position of 11) then 
>> copy pasted two more times creating fields 12 and 13. So this satisfies my 
>> reorder interest, but seems to me a rather cumbersome and unnecessary 
>> procedure (if for no other reason than deleting fields also deletes all of 
>> the “custom” settings on the fields which doubles or triples the amount of 
>> effort involved). Maybe I am missing something more obvious?
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
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Re: Reorder fields

[Craig Newman via use-livecode]

Hi.

Not sure why the tabbing order seems to be out of whack, but you can always 
force the issue by trapping the tabKey message in each field, and directing it 
to the next one of you own choice.

Craig

> On Jul 28, 2023, at 6:19 AM, Mark Smith via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> How do you reorder fields? I have a form (prebuilt) with 3 fields (a,b,c) in 
> positions 9, 15, 12 (as indicated by the Layer field in the Position tab). 
> Tabbing cause these fields to be visited in the order a, c, b whereas I would 
> prefer a, b, c. I have tried all manner of editing the Layer field to make 
> them be in that order with no success, I’ve variously tried new orders: 
> 9,10,11 or 14,15,16 or even 20,21,22 but nothing seems to affect their order. 
> It always returns to 9, 15, 12. Lock size and position is not checked. I’ve 
> even tried doing this with the Number field in the Advanced tab, also without 
> success. Ok, I did find a solution but while it was easy for me, it might not 
> be as easy on a more complicated form. I deleted all 3 fields. Recreated 
> field A (which was given the starting position of 11) then copy pasted two 
> more times creating fields 12 and 13. So this satisfies my reorder interest, 
> but seems to me a rather cumbersome and unnecessary procedure (if for no 
> other reason than deleting fields also deletes all of the “custom” settings 
> on the fields which doubles or triples the amount of effort involved). Maybe 
> I am missing something more obvious?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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