Re: Windows 10 and LC9.0

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 05/29/2018 08:11 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:


This isn't addressed to anyone in particular, but I understand it's frustrating 
at times that the IDE can be problematic. Let me just say with the humblest of 
intentions, reporting it here does not help the dev team much. They have a 
workflow driven by the Quality Control Center. If we do not report bugs, we 
really don't have a horse in the race when it comes to the stability and 
usability of the product.


In general I agree, but... I sometimes post here with possible problems 
I've run into


a) as a sanity check to see if it's just something in my code
b) if I'm seeing an intermittent problem to see if others chime in with 
the same symptoms and maybe we can figure out a common cause


and then I'll file a bug report.

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: Windows 10 and LC9.0

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

I will say that from time to time while scriptint and debugging, my IDE wil 
CTD, but if I start up again and do the exact same thing I did before, it 
works. Because I cannot pin down the cause I don't want to report it. I am 
using LC 9.0.0 in MacOS 10.13.4. 

This isn't addressed to anyone in particular, but I understand it's frustrating 
at times that the IDE can be problematic. Let me just say with the humblest of 
intentions, reporting it here does not help the dev team much. They have a 
workflow driven by the Quality Control Center. If we do not report bugs, we 
really don't have a horse in the race when it comes to the stability and 
usability of the product. 

Bob S


> On May 27, 2018, at 13:17 , J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I can drag-drop controls from the palette, resize the message box whenever I 
> like, and the script editor works fine for me. I haven't had a crash recently 
> until yesterday when I was implementing RSA encryption and I did something 
> wrong in my handler. So I'm trying to think what I do differently that 
> doesn't cause the problems you're seeing.


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Re: Windows 10 and LC9.0

[Monte Goulding via use-livecode]

Hi Folks

I just wanted to chime in here on a couple of things.

Regarding the windows day I am trying to do as much as I can on Windows now. 
It’s a bit easier now that 8.x has been EOLd there’s only one toolchain to deal 
with. Having said that though the way we work on LiveCode and the way you work 
with LiveCode are completely different so good bug reports are essential to 
getting what you are seeing fixed.

I currently have a couple of PRs open that should resolve some of the issues 
people are seeing so hopefully in 9.0.1 people won’t see the slow typing in the 
SE and when nudging lots of controls.

Regarding other issues here it would be really helpful if people could quote 
bug numbers when discussing problems they are having so that we can get them 
sorted.

Cheers

Monte



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Re: Windows 10 and LC9.0

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

On 5/26/18 7:20 PM, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode wrote:

When I wrote the list of things that were broken I was writing specifically
about Mac.


I haven't responded so far because I thought the issues were 
Windows-related and I do development on Mac. There is something going on 
that apparently doesn't affect my setup because the only issue in your 
report I've seen (and it's minor) is the property inspector not resizing 
correctly when you change panes.


I can drag-drop controls from the palette, resize the message box 
whenever I like, and the script editor works fine for me. I haven't had 
a crash recently until yesterday when I was implementing RSA encryption 
and I did something wrong in my handler. So I'm trying to think what I 
do differently that doesn't cause the problems you're seeing.


I suspect what it boils down to is that I don't use the project browser 
because the app browser is better suited to my workflow. And some of the 
new scripting options are disabled, the only ones I use are Bracket 
Completion, Control Structure Completion, and Autoformatting.


It would be interesting to see if those who are having issues still have 
the same problems if the Project Browser is closed and some of the 
scripting options are turned off. While it's true that users shouldn't 
have to do that, it would at least give the team an idea of why some 
people have trouble while others don't. Once identified, they could 
address the issues.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Windows 10 and LC9.0

[Erik Beugelaar via use-livecode]

Maybe an idea for the mothership to setup an survey like they did with the 
HTML5 campaign.

Survey containing for example questions about:

1. Percentage of total LiveCode developers mainly using LiveCode on Windows 
platform against Mac OSX platform;
2. Percentage of total LiveCode developers mainly targeting Android on Windows 
platform against Mac OSX platform targeting Android;
3. Suggestions of making the IDE working solid under Windows platform;
5. Priority list of issues;
5. Etc etc

It has no use to look backward dealing with technical issues you couldn’t fixed 
by yourself, my wise father always told me (senior engineer Electronics) to put 
all strength together so you all can move forward, in this case to make a 
stable working version 9.x of LiveCode IDE under Windows/OSX.

Just my 2cents,
Erik Beugelaar



On 27/05/18 02:20, "use-livecode on behalf of Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode" 
 wrote:

>On Sat, 26 May 2018 at 22:09, AndyP via use-livecode <
>use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>
>> If for example you are using LC on Mac which I have used in the past and
>> was a pleasure to behold.. it just works!
>>
>When I wrote the list of things that were broken I was writing specifically
>about Mac. I very rarely code on Windoze. The Mac ‘just works’, true. But
>LC on a Mac is ‘just flawed’. And from the catalogue of faults I’ve binge
>read from the last couple of weeks posts it seems it’s a cross platform
>issue.
>
>LC 9 is simply not ready, is still Beta and is an embarrassment. Any new
>customer that would come their way would immediately abandon LC based on
>frustration and limitation. There seems no sense to it. Did they not
>actually test it for real before they released it? I have a feeling they
>put far too much trust in their automated tests and don’t do nearly enough
>manual real world testing to see how their dev env works. Especially the
>script editor for goodness sake, the very heart of the coding environment!
>
>
>-- 
>Sean Cole
>*Pi Digital Productions Ltd*
>www.pidigital.co.uk
>+44(1634)402193
>+44(7702)116447
>'Don't try to think outside the box. Just remember the truth: There is no
>box!'
>'For then you realise it is not the box you are trying to look outside of,
>but it is yourself!'
>
>eMail Ts & Cs    Pi Digital
>Productions Ltd is a UK registered limited company, no. 5255609
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Re: Windows 10 and LC9.0

[Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode]

On Sat, 26 May 2018 at 22:09, AndyP via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:


> If for example you are using LC on Mac which I have used in the past and
> was a pleasure to behold.. it just works!
>
When I wrote the list of things that were broken I was writing specifically
about Mac. I very rarely code on Windoze. The Mac ‘just works’, true. But
LC on a Mac is ‘just flawed’. And from the catalogue of faults I’ve binge
read from the last couple of weeks posts it seems it’s a cross platform
issue.

LC 9 is simply not ready, is still Beta and is an embarrassment. Any new
customer that would come their way would immediately abandon LC based on
frustration and limitation. There seems no sense to it. Did they not
actually test it for real before they released it? I have a feeling they
put far too much trust in their automated tests and don’t do nearly enough
manual real world testing to see how their dev env works. Especially the
script editor for goodness sake, the very heart of the coding environment!


-- 
Sean Cole
*Pi Digital Productions Ltd*
www.pidigital.co.uk
+44(1634)402193
+44(7702)116447
'Don't try to think outside the box. Just remember the truth: There is no
box!'
'For then you realise it is not the box you are trying to look outside of,
but it is yourself!'

eMail Ts & Cs    Pi Digital
Productions Ltd is a UK registered limited company, no. 5255609
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Re: Windows 10 and LC9.0

[AndyP via use-livecode]

Windows and V9 is more problematic than the 8 series.

Unfortunately before any of the problems previously mentioned are looked at,
the message queuing and subsequent slow down, juttering and eventual
crashing of the ide when either the script editor, project browser or
message box are in extended use need to be fixed.

The good news is that in the last online conference Mark said that he knew
what the problem is so this hopefully will be fixed in the next release. 
Kevin and Mark also indicated that more time would be given to testing on
Windows so hopefully us windows users will start to see more parity with
Mac.

It must be hard for the LiveCode team to balance the needs and wants of us
the users when so many platforms are targeted. If for example you are using
LC on Mac which I have used in the past and was a pleasure to behold.. it
just works! then you will be more interested in the next new feature where
for us windows users we just want to be able to work without having to have
the Task Manager open all the time to clear out any residuals from the last
LC crash!

I do however feel very positive with the general direction LC is going, and
I am sure that the team will continue to chip away at the bugs and usability
issues.




-
Andy Piddock 


My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. 

TinyIDE  a Free alternative minimalist IDE Plugin for LiveCode 


Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk  

PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / 
finder.
http://www.pointandsee.co.uk  - made with LiveCode
--
Sent from: 
http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html

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Re: Windows 10 and LC9.0

[R.H. via use-livecode]

I like to add two more observations for Windows 10 and LC9:

I wrote that before LC9 on a secondary monitor menus tend to move into
Nirvana as they open not at the location of the menu. This is correct with
one exception: The Script Editor's menus are still behaving the old way,
maybe not as drastically, but moving the Script Editor to the left side of
the secondary monitor (my first main monitor is placed on the right side),
menus open outside of the full window's visible rectangle.

Another observation: I got used writing almost all scripts as behavior
scripts, also the stack script is a behavior script. Usually, writing a new
handler will not be recognized by the system when compiling. Too often, but
not always, they fail. Saving several times the script window does not
help. Sometimes it helps to close the Script Editor and to reopen it.
Sometimes it is necessary to quit and then restart LiveCode. Then it
usually always works as expected.

Once a new handler is recognized, it works and also changes will be
recognized.

Roland
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Re: Windows 10 and LC9.0

[Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode]

Tool Palette - BROKEN
Script Editor - BROKEN
Project Browser - BROKEN
Geometry Manager - BROKEN
Inspector - BROKEN
Message Box - BROKEN
Dictionary/Guide - USELESS
LiveCode = UNFIT FOR PURPOSE

Is there ANY part of this Freakin' software that actually frakin works??

KEVIN! Stop adding 'new' stuff and FIX THE DAMNED PROGRAM!! Don't release
stuff as 'STABLE' things that don't actually work and then expect us to
keep paying for it. You're affecting other peoples livelihood and stability
here! I should be a clear example to you of that very fact!

It's no wonder I went frekin mental! £^&%**^@(*@&^%£%@%@...

Sean Cole
*Pi Digital Productions Ltd*
www.pidigital.co.uk
+44(1634)402193
+44(7702)116447
'Don't try to think outside the box. Just remember the truth: There is no
box!'
'For then you realise it is not the box you are trying to look outside of,
but it is yourself!'

eMail Ts & Cs    Pi Digital
Productions Ltd is a UK registered limited company, no. 5255609

On 25 May 2018 at 23:13, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 05/25/2018 12:05 PM, John Burtt via use-livecode wrote:
>
> Also fixed is the bug that it was almost impossible to place new controls
>>> from the Tools palette to the IDE stack using drag-and-drop. It had been
>>> an
>>> uncontrollable trial-and-error thing. Often enough I had to try several
>>> times to "hit" the stack window and place the control So, I am happy
>>> about
>>> the fix very much.
>>>
>>
>> Not fixed on a Mac. Totally unreliable.
>> I don't even try anymore. Have to use the menu.
>>
>
> Ouch. That's depressing. I wasn't aware of that, but it's been many years
> now since I've used the tools palette. May I suggest PowerTools?
>
> http://www.ahsoftware.net/PowerTools/PowerTools.lc
>
> --
>  Mark Wieder
>  ahsoftw...@gmail.com
>
>
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Re: Windows 10 and LC9.0

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 05/25/2018 12:05 PM, John Burtt via use-livecode wrote:


Also fixed is the bug that it was almost impossible to place new controls
from the Tools palette to the IDE stack using drag-and-drop. It had been an
uncontrollable trial-and-error thing. Often enough I had to try several
times to "hit" the stack window and place the control So, I am happy about
the fix very much.


Not fixed on a Mac. Totally unreliable.
I don't even try anymore. Have to use the menu.


Ouch. That's depressing. I wasn't aware of that, but it's been many 
years now since I've used the tools palette. May I suggest PowerTools?


http://www.ahsoftware.net/PowerTools/PowerTools.lc

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: Windows 10 and LC9.0

[John Burtt via use-livecode]

Some of these bugs are not specific to Windows machines. Neither are they 
dependent on the speed of the machine. I see these everyday and I'm using a 
very fast MacBook Pro.
> 
> Another real problem is when lots of controls are selected (maybe more than
> 10). Moving the selection using arrow keys is a pain. Even moving the
> selected controls with the mouse can make the system unusable. It can take
> 30 seconds to move even one pixel. Grouping controls and moving the group
> is the only option in such case and then working well. This has been the
> same problem in previous versions.

   I get this. One big pain.
> 
> Also fixed is the bug that it was almost impossible to place new controls
> from the Tools palette to the IDE stack using drag-and-drop. It had been an
> uncontrollable trial-and-error thing. Often enough I had to try several
> times to "hit" the stack window and place the control So, I am happy about
> the fix very much.

   Not fixed on a Mac. Totally unreliable.
   I don't even try anymore. Have to use the menu.
> 
> There has been a problem with the "Find and Replace" window in previous
> versions. This problem still exists. Do not touch the window in trying to
> resize it. It will then suddenly shrink to a strange width and becomes
> unusable. The only way to change this is a restart of LiveCode. Just never
> resize this window!!! (I am not going to touch the IDE stacks)

   Not this exactly, but I can usually resize the message box one time. From 
then on, it is not resizable unless i close and reopen it again. And LC likes 
to open some of my saved stacks at the default size of new stacks. I have to 
script a preOpenCard handler to handle the resizing, or do it myself over and 
over again.
> 
> What is now a new problem with 9.0, and a bit of an annoyance, is the fact
> that the property inspector does not keep the resized value when changing
> when selecting another control. Each time, the window falls back to some
> default size and then it must be resized again, or the scroll bar must be
> used. Again, it is not critical but hinders work-flow very much. For
> example, I prefer to look at layer numbers in the property inspector, and
> just go through each control with an open property inspector without having
> to resize the window or scroll it all the time.

   This happens on my machine too. 

   John


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RE: Windows 10 and LC9.0

[Clarence Martin via use-livecode]

I agree. I have seen this more times than I like.

-Original Message-
From: use-livecode <use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of
Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2018 10:43 AM
To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Cc: Curry Kenworthy <cu...@pair.com>
Subject: Re: Windows 10 and LC9.0


Roland said:

 > The kluge is turning off everything that is offered to support  > script
hiliting and debugging such as bracket completions, etc.

This is one of the reasons I used LiveCode 6.7, and not 8 or 9, for my LC
Conference presentation. When displaying code to others, nice to have the
script coloration turned on! :)

 > Opening LiveCode 9.0 on my computer (8MB RAM, 2 years old,  > Acer
Aspire) takes about 30 seconds.

Every time LC starts, I'm guessing it also runs "Setup" (which shows as
"Installer" in Task Manager) to check for LC updates.

And something there is SERIOUSLY messed up! Over time you can wind up with
multiple Setup processes hung in memory per LC version, and this can happen
for multiple versions. Big system drag.

So I've gotten in the habit of deleting the Setups (not the real
installers) and another way is turning off all update features in
Preferences. That helps with LC startup and system performance.

Has anyone done bug report on this?

 > For this reason, I would like to see much  > more attention towards
Windows and Android.

Yep!

I fully endorse Richard's suggestion for the LC team to spend some weekly
time on Windows. Hopefully a real native installation, but in any case, the
Windows session needs to be kept running for days (or at least one full day)
as it does for a real user, not just for minutes.

I could add a similar suggestion - to have the team spend some time using LC
itself, that is using the IDE. Perhaps spending a couple hours weekly in the
IDE working on a continuing project stack, not just a few minutes on a test
stack from scratch. That intimacy with the IDE will pay off! Use 6.7 as a
reference point of what you had before in terms of features and polish.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/


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Re: Windows 10 and LC9.0

[Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode]

Roland said:

> The kluge is turning off everything that is offered to support
> script hiliting and debugging such as bracket completions, etc.

This is one of the reasons I used LiveCode 6.7, and not 8 or 9, for my 
LC Conference presentation. When displaying code to others, nice to have 
the script coloration turned on! :)


> Opening LiveCode 9.0 on my computer (8MB RAM, 2 years old,
> Acer Aspire) takes about 30 seconds.

Every time LC starts, I'm guessing it also runs "Setup" (which shows as 
"Installer" in Task Manager) to check for LC updates.


And something there is SERIOUSLY messed up! Over time you can wind up 
with multiple Setup processes hung in memory per LC version, and this 
can happen for multiple versions. Big system drag.


So I've gotten in the habit of deleting the Setups (not the real 
installers) and another way is turning off all update features in 
Preferences. That helps with LC startup and system performance.


Has anyone done bug report on this?

> For this reason, I would like to see much
> more attention towards Windows and Android.

Yep!

I fully endorse Richard's suggestion for the LC team to spend some 
weekly time on Windows. Hopefully a real native installation, but in any 
case, the Windows session needs to be kept running for days (or at least 
one full day) as it does for a real user, not just for minutes.


I could add a similar suggestion - to have the team spend some time 
using LC itself, that is using the IDE. Perhaps spending a couple hours 
weekly in the IDE working on a continuing project stack, not just a few 
minutes on a test stack from scratch. That intimacy with the IDE will 
pay off! Use 6.7 as a reference point of what you had before in terms of 
features and polish.


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/


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Re: Windows 10 and LC9.0

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 05/24/2018 01:46 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:

On 5/24/18 12:35 PM, R.H. via use-livecode wrote:
What is now a new problem with 9.0, and a bit of an annoyance, is the 
fact

that the property inspector does not keep the resized value when changing
when selecting another control. Each time, the window falls back to some
default size and then it must be resized again, or the scroll bar must be
used. Again, it is not critical but hinders work-flow very much. For
example, I prefer to look at layer numbers in the property inspector, and
just go through each control with an open property inspector without 
having

to resize the window or scroll it all the time.


I've seen this too on Mac. The property inspector should auto-resize to 
accomodate all the controls in the current pane, at least for the 
height. I wish it would also resize to the minimum width so that we 
don't see such long option buttons on some panes, but the awkward widths 
aren't new.




https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19880

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: Windows 10 and LC9.0

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

On 5/24/18 12:35 PM, R.H. via use-livecode wrote:

What is now a new problem with 9.0, and a bit of an annoyance, is the fact
that the property inspector does not keep the resized value when changing
when selecting another control. Each time, the window falls back to some
default size and then it must be resized again, or the scroll bar must be
used. Again, it is not critical but hinders work-flow very much. For
example, I prefer to look at layer numbers in the property inspector, and
just go through each control with an open property inspector without having
to resize the window or scroll it all the time.


I've seen this too on Mac. The property inspector should auto-resize to 
accomodate all the controls in the current pane, at least for the 
height. I wish it would also resize to the minimum width so that we 
don't see such long option buttons on some panes, but the awkward widths 
aren't new.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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