RE: Release 8.0 DP 10

[Clarence P Martin]

I have tried to load the new DP 10 and my computer locks up with the following 
dialog: 
Livecode version 8.0.8-dp10
Extracting property information from dictionary.
This can take up to a minute.
This dialog box just stays and doesn't close.
I have to close LiveCode with the task manager.

Sincerely,

Clarence Martin
Email: chi...@themartinz.com
Cell: 626 6965561

-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
Ali Lloyd
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2015 3:47 AM
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Subject: Release 8.0 DP 10

Dear list members,

We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.0 DP 10.

Warning: this is not a stable release. Please ensure you back up your stacks 
before testing them.

*Release contents*

*Native string performance*
The performance of native string operations has been vastly improved, with many 
achieving similar speeds to those in 6.7.

*Linux install path*
The default Linux install path is now /opt/livecode/ and the executable naming 
has been made consistent.

*Union and intersect semantics*
The union and intersect semantics have been simplified and made consistent.

*26 bug fixes*

*Known Issues*
- Cef Browser (and therefore the dictionary and browser widget) does not 
currently work on 32-bit Linux
- HTML 5 standalones do not currently function when they contain extensions 
with dependencies.

*Getting the release*
You can get the release at http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/

LiveCode 8 is still in development so we’d love to hear any feedback you have 
on it. There are a number of features that we’d like to implement but aren’t 
ready yet and the existing features are subject to change during development - 
we can’t guarantee that extensions written in Developer Previews will continue 
to work the same way in later versions.

Please report any bugs encountered on our Bugzilla at 
http://quality.livecode.com/

We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at
http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93

The LiveCode Team
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Re: Release 8.0 DP 10

[Peter Haworth]

Hi Clarence,
That's lcStackbrowser trying to unpack the dictionary.  I'll email you
offline for more details.

Pete
lcSQL Software <http://www.lcsql.com>
Home of lcStackBrowser <http://www.lcsql.com/lcstackbrowser.html> and
SQLiteAdmin <http://www.lcsql.com/sqliteadmin.html>

On Sat, Nov 28, 2015 at 5:25 AM, Clarence P Martin <chi...@themartinz.com>
wrote:

> I have tried to load the new DP 10 and my computer locks up with the
> following dialog:
> Livecode version 8.0.8-dp10
> Extracting property information from dictionary.
> This can take up to a minute.
> This dialog box just stays and doesn't close.
> I have to close LiveCode with the task manager.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Clarence Martin
> Email: chi...@themartinz.com
> Cell: 626 6965561
>
> -Original Message-
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On
> Behalf Of Ali Lloyd
> Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2015 3:47 AM
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Release 8.0 DP 10
>
> Dear list members,
>
> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.0 DP 10.
>
> Warning: this is not a stable release. Please ensure you back up your
> stacks before testing them.
>
> *Release contents*
>
> *Native string performance*
> The performance of native string operations has been vastly improved, with
> many achieving similar speeds to those in 6.7.
>
> *Linux install path*
> The default Linux install path is now /opt/livecode/ and the executable
> naming has been made consistent.
>
> *Union and intersect semantics*
> The union and intersect semantics have been simplified and made consistent.
>
> *26 bug fixes*
>
> *Known Issues*
> - Cef Browser (and therefore the dictionary and browser widget) does not
> currently work on 32-bit Linux
> - HTML 5 standalones do not currently function when they contain
> extensions with dependencies.
>
> *Getting the release*
> You can get the release at http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/
>
> LiveCode 8 is still in development so we’d love to hear any feedback you
> have on it. There are a number of features that we’d like to implement but
> aren’t ready yet and the existing features are subject to change during
> development - we can’t guarantee that extensions written in Developer
> Previews will continue to work the same way in later versions.
>
> Please report any bugs encountered on our Bugzilla at
> http://quality.livecode.com/
>
> We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at
> http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93
>
> The LiveCode Team
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LiveCode Server on RHEL 5 [was: Release 8.0 DP 10]

[Peter TB Brett]

On 25/11/2015 14:58, Warren Samples wrote:

On 11/25/2015 08:38 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote:

Yes, the release notes appear to be inaccurate.

We currently build against:

* glibc 2.11 (released Nov 2009) or newer on x86

* glibc 2.13 (released Feb 2011) or newer on x86-64

I will make sure they are updated in time for our next releases.

Out of interest, on which Linux distribution and version are you
attempting to run LiveCode 8 server?

Peter


32-bit CentOS 5.11, at WebFaction (webfaction.com)


The LiveCode Server binaries that we currently distribute do not support 
RHEL 5 and its derivatives.


It may be possible to compile LiveCode Community Server for such an old 
system.


Alternatively, we may be able to provide limited support, for a fee, via 
our Business Services division.  Please feel free to contact 
 if you're interested in that option.


 Peter

--
Dr Peter Brett 
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode

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Re: Release 8.0 DP 10

[Warren Samples]

On 11/25/2015 08:38 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote:

Yes, the release notes appear to be inaccurate.

We currently build against:

* glibc 2.11 (released Nov 2009) or newer on x86

* glibc 2.13 (released Feb 2011) or newer on x86-64

I will make sure they are updated in time for our next releases.

Out of interest, on which Linux distribution and version are you
attempting to run LiveCode 8 server?

Peter




32-bit CentOS 5.11, at WebFaction (webfaction.com)

Warren







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Re: Release 8.0 DP 10

[Mark Waddingham]

On 2015-11-24 19:11, Richmond wrote:

BUT ( and, you know me by now, there always has to be a 'but') Please,
Please, Pretty Please, integrate SVG import into the 'standard' image 
import

menu feature.


Patience Richmond :)

As we've said before we will do something along those lines once the SVG 
display is ready to integrate. After all, there is no point in adding a 
menu item to import an SVG file, if there is no way to display one.


I've done some more work on the PR I submitted a while ago - getting 
linear and radial gradients to work (I still have to get the 'focal 
point' feature of SVG radial gradients working) - so hopefully this will 
be ready soon.


Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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Re: Release 8.0 DP 10

[Peter TB Brett]

On 25/11/2015 14:19, Warren Samples wrote:

On 11/24/2015 05:46 AM, Ali Lloyd wrote:

We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.0 DP 10.



The release notes provided with this version of Livecode Server say it
requires glibc 2.3.6 or later for 32-bit Intel. This seems not to be the
case. It won't run in my environment and ldd complains:
  "/lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.7' not found" I have glibc 2.5.


Yes, the release notes appear to be inaccurate.

We currently build against:

* glibc 2.11 (released Nov 2009) or newer on x86

* glibc 2.13 (released Feb 2011) or newer on x86-64

I will make sure they are updated in time for our next releases.

Out of interest, on which Linux distribution and version are you 
attempting to run LiveCode 8 server?


   Peter

--
Dr Peter Brett 
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode

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Re: Release 8.0 DP 10

[Warren Samples]

On 11/24/2015 05:46 AM, Ali Lloyd wrote:

We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.0 DP 10.



The release notes provided with this version of Livecode Server say it 
requires glibc 2.3.6 or later for 32-bit Intel. This seems not to be the 
case. It won't run in my environment and ldd complains:

 "/lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.7' not found" I have glibc 2.5.

Warren


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Re: Release 8.0 DP 10

[[-hh]]

> Alejandro wrote:
> Remember, again, Livecode vector graphics only use integers (1,2,3,4,5...) 
> for displaying graphics strokes (borders). This limitation IS an 
> insurmountable barrier to import and display faithfully many professional 
> illustrations created or exported to SVG format.

I read this often here, also from 'big LC-cheeses' (what is a compliment here). 
This is, TMHO, a misunderstanding or, at least, may create misunderstandings.

SVG is NOT able to divide the pixels of your screen or the points of your 
printing device, so the integer method of rendering integer coordinates of LC 
is effectively not at all different from vector graphics systems.

The difference is how the points are stored. "The points" of LC graphics could 
also be a list of floating point coordinates what prohibits better the 
fortifying of rounding errors (for example when rotating repeatedly by a few 
degrees.

M. Wieder has already done such a storing method, I believe, for some regular 
shapes that store internally the computed floating points and not the 
rounded-to-integer points. You can ask for the points also for some regular 
shapes (and get the rounded values).

Also one can set, beginning from LC 7, the points of an LC graphic objects to a 
list of floating points, you don't have to round these points before that, the 
engine does that for you.

For example this works in LC 7:

set points of grc "Line" to "1.0135, 1.0789, 40.5673, 156.8907"

That is you can take the numbers from svg paths 'directly', without rounding, 
as input for LC graphics.

>From such a setting LC rounds to your pixels and a corresponding SVG yields 
>exactly the same output (seen apart from antialiasing and other effects).

The limit is the resolution (the pixels), no matter who sets the pixel colours.

Hermann
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Re: Release 8.0 DP 10

[[-hh]]

> Alejandro wrote:
> Accurate rendering of strokes with different weights requires
> special techniques to get the desired effect:
> http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2012/04/a-closer-look-at-font-rendering/

Hi Alejandro,

this is, once again, not a problem of integers or floating points.

Of course you cannot produce TrueType-output with LC (I said, "apart from 
antialising and other effects"). You could do if you implement all these 
font-smoothing-, that is 'eye-tricking'-algorithms. But why should you do so?

Doing this would be exactly what recently Bob S. wrote, to try to have kind of 
a replacement for postscript.

See the last sentence in that article above:
> "While most Web fonts currently on the market are TrueType-flavored, I am 
> expecting that the industry will largely switch to PostScript, which is the 
> native format nearly all type designers work in (the fonts that are easier to 
> produce)."

'Easier to produce' means here to use mathematical models instead of a list of 
smoothed raster points as properties of objects. But the output is, at the very 
end, once again, always a list of raster points for screen or printer.

Hermann
[p.s. You can have postscript fonts even on Raspberry Pi, simply use "TeX" 
there.]


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Re: Release 8.0 DP 10

[Alejandro Tejada]

Hi Hermann,

Accurate rendering of strokes with different weights requires
special techniques to get the desired effect:

http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2012/04/a-closer-look-at-font-rendering/

Alejandro



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Re: Release 8.0 DP 10

[BNig]

Hi Paul,

have a look at this pull-request from Mark Waddingham

https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/3089

So I guess SVG import is coming, though not the full specifictions. But that
should meet most needs.

Kind regards
Bernd


Paul Hibbert-4 wrote
> +1
> 
> Paul
> 
>> On Nov 24, 2015, at 10:11 AM, Richmond 

> richmondmathewson@

>  wrote:
>> 
>> I may not know much (and I, oddly enough, am more aware of
>> how little I know than you), but, despite the growls and groans, know
>> that LiveCode 8 when we get there, eventually (and let's hope,
>> paradoxically,
>> that that is a long and lumpy road), will be a KILLER,
>> 
>> and, like that other Killer, Jerry Lee Lewis, let's hope it plays the
>> piano with
>> its feet on the keyboard and puts all else to shame.
>> 
>> BUT ( and, you know me by now, there always has to be a 'but') Please,
>> Please, Pretty Please, integrate SVG import into the 'standard' image
>> import
>> menu feature.
>> 
>> Richmond.





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Re: Release 8.0 DP 10

[Richmond]

On 24/11/15 22:02, BNig wrote:

Hi Paul,

have a look at this pull-request from Mark Waddingham

https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/3089

So I guess SVG import is coming, though not the full specifictions. But that
should meet most needs.

Kind regards
Bernd





In the short-term, at least, Alejandro's SVG stuff looks far better than 
the LiveCode 8 SVG widget.


Not least because it works with earlier versions of Livecode!

Richmond.

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Re: Release 8.0 DP 10

[Alejandro Tejada]

Richmond Mathewson-2 wrote
> In the short-term, at least, Alejandro's SVG stuff looks 
> far better than the LiveCode 8 SVG widget.
> Not least because it works with earlier versions of Livecode!

I disagree... Ian's stack SVGL is great and is an
excellent alternative but there is no replacement 
for the real thing: A SVG control that renders
faithfully any file that you import.

Remember, again, Livecode vector graphics only use 
integers (1,2,3,4,5...) for displaying graphics strokes (borders). 
This limitation IS an insurmountable barrier to import and 
display faithfully many professional illustrations created 
or exported to SVG format. I have test this again recently.
Vector graphics without different border weights works
better with Ian's stack.


Alejandro




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Re: Release 8.0 DP 10

[Joseba Aguayo]

Hello:

When I try to group four object in one card, the program crashh!
(OS X Capitan v10.11.1)

Un saludo.

Joseba

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Re: Release 8.0 DP 10

[Richmond]

I may not know much (and I, oddly enough, am more aware of
how little I know than you), but, despite the growls and groans, know
that LiveCode 8 when we get there, eventually (and let's hope, 
paradoxically,

that that is a long and lumpy road), will be a KILLER,

and, like that other Killer, Jerry Lee Lewis, let's hope it plays the 
piano with

its feet on the keyboard and puts all else to shame.

BUT ( and, you know me by now, there always has to be a 'but') Please,
Please, Pretty Please, integrate SVG import into the 'standard' image import
menu feature.

Richmond.

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Re: Release 8.0 DP 10

[Paul Hibbert]

+1

Paul

> On Nov 24, 2015, at 10:11 AM, Richmond  wrote:
> 
> I may not know much (and I, oddly enough, am more aware of
> how little I know than you), but, despite the growls and groans, know
> that LiveCode 8 when we get there, eventually (and let's hope, paradoxically,
> that that is a long and lumpy road), will be a KILLER,
> 
> and, like that other Killer, Jerry Lee Lewis, let's hope it plays the piano 
> with
> its feet on the keyboard and puts all else to shame.
> 
> BUT ( and, you know me by now, there always has to be a 'but') Please,
> Please, Pretty Please, integrate SVG import into the 'standard' image import
> menu feature.
> 
> Richmond.
> 
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Re: Release 8.0 DP 10

[Richard Gaskin]

Geoff Canyon wrote:

On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 6:46 AM, Ali Lloyd wrote:


*Native string performance*
The performance of native string operations has been vastly improved, with
many achieving similar speeds to those in 6.7.


This is definitely improved. I had already been running tests using list
parsing, and I just ran that test in 8.0dp10, and while it is still slower
than 6.7.3, it is *much* faster than 7, or earlier releases of 8:

6.7.3: 1.77 seconds
7.0.3: 32.95 seconds
8.0dp1: 32.31 seconds
8.0dp10: 2.17 seconds


This is VERY encouraging.

Given the scope of what the team has been doing, from Cocoa to Unicode 
and the hundreds of other enhancements and refinements along the way 
(I've been surprised no one else is as excited about the addition of the 
mobileGetLaunchData function), it would have been a bit much to expect 
all that could come together and also be well optimized in the first pass.


After all, Python took a few builds moving from v2 to v3 to get 
performance back, and even with fewer contributors it seems the LC team 
has accomplished as much in about as much time.


Kudos to Malte for spearheading the benchmarking effort that helped 
identify some of the specific string operations affected.


And of course kudos to the team for these optimizations, proving that 
even if it takes a little time it's possible to add sweeping new 
features and still maintain good performance.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Release 8.0 DP 10

[Ali Lloyd]

Dear list members,

We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.0 DP 10.

Warning: this is not a stable release. Please ensure you back up your
stacks before testing them.

*Release contents*

*Native string performance*
The performance of native string operations has been vastly improved, with
many achieving similar speeds to those in 6.7.

*Linux install path*
The default Linux install path is now /opt/livecode/ and the executable
naming has been made consistent.

*Union and intersect semantics*
The union and intersect semantics have been simplified and made consistent.

*26 bug fixes*

*Known Issues*
- Cef Browser (and therefore the dictionary and browser widget) does not
currently work on 32-bit Linux
- HTML 5 standalones do not currently function when they contain extensions
with dependencies.

*Getting the release*
You can get the release at http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/

LiveCode 8 is still in development so we’d love to hear any
feedback you have on it. There are a number of features that we’d like to
implement but aren’t ready yet and the existing features are subject to
change during development - we can’t guarantee that extensions written in
Developer Previews will continue to work the same way in later versions.

Please report any bugs encountered on our Bugzilla at
http://quality.livecode.com/

We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at
http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93

The LiveCode Team
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Re: Release 8.0 DP 10

[Geoff Canyon]

On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 6:46 AM, Ali Lloyd  wrote:

> *Native string performance*
> The performance of native string operations has been vastly improved, with
> many achieving similar speeds to those in 6.7.
>

This is definitely improved. I had already been running tests using list
parsing, and I just ran that test in 8.0dp10, and while it is still slower
than 6.7.3, it is *much* faster than 7, or earlier releases of 8:

6.7.3: 1.77 seconds
7.0.3: 32.95 seconds
8.0dp1: 32.31 seconds
8.0dp10: 2.17 seconds

Code:

on mouseUp
   repeat with i = 1 to 1000
  put i,"" after L
   end repeat
   put the long seconds into T
   repeat with i = 1 to 100
  get item 200 + random(600) of L
   end repeat
   put the long seconds - T into T
   put T
end mouseUp
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