Re: The Story of Steve Jobs - An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale

[Chipp Walters]

Thanks for your apology. Chippy would've been fine!

On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Björnke von Gierke  wrote:

> Sorry. I have no clue how it is to feel overweight and therefore my
> wording was inconsiderate.
>
> I saw you addressing me as 'Bjorke', so I replied with a over the top post
> too. I started with 'Chippy' and then made a re-edit too much.
>
>
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RE: The Story of Steve Jobs - An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale

[Alejandro Tejada]

Lynn Fredricks-2 wrote
> 
> I guess someone donned a black turtleneck and invoked a ritual summoning
> the
> undead reality distortion field.
> 

There was many good qualities in Steve Jobs and these good qualities were,
from my point of view, that produced the outstanding results that he
achieved
in his career:

1) Steve Jobs was a honest and enthusiastic worker in his ideas...

In my life, i have found many people in directive positions that are
absolutely clueless about the company they are directing. 
How could these people be an effective leader in their company?
if they don't even know the WHAT, WHO, WHEN, WHICH of the
company they "pretend" to manage.

For example: Many years ago, in the 90's, I was working for a Sign Maker
company. During the time that I was there, as Designer, the amount of
money produced by the new work that myself designed was, more or less,
the equivalent of US$200,000.
One day, I asked to the owner and director for the equivalent of
US$10 dollars for my transportation expenses. With visible regret, he
reached his pocket and throw the money to the floor. I saw his action
with complete disbelief and his wife, who was present the whole time,
took the money and gave it in my hand.
The next day, when I do not returned to his Sign maker company, he went
to the house where I lived and asked to the person who talk with him
in the entrance: "Ask him when he is going to return to the company..."
Then, I send him this message: "I will call you when I could return... and
take the money that you gave me for transport"...
Of course, I never returned to his company and he do not show again
in the door... Does exist a moral for this history? Sure... many.
At least for me, I do not work anymore for people who believe that they
are making me a favor, when I am producing real and sound money for
his company or particular project...

2) Steve Jobs was and excelent communicator of his ideas...

How many people do you know that knows exactly what they
want to achieve in their business and actually knows how to
communicate these ideas to their workers and potential buyers?

In my life, I have only meet 3 people who have this quality:
A Doctor in Medicine, a Businessman who imports products
from China and a Civil Engineer.  

Steve Jobs have many more outstanding qualities, but these two
are the ones that, from my point of view, had more importance.

Al




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RE: The Story of Steve Jobs - An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale

[Lynn Fredricks]

I guess someone donned a black turtleneck and invoked a ritual summoning the
undead reality distortion field.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Paradigma Software
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server 


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Re: The Story of Steve Jobs - An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale

[Mark Wieder]

Bob-

Thursday, August 16, 2012, 4:15:41 PM, you wrote:

> Mrrphl grrglmph mrrphlegrrgl phrmphhlt!  ;-)



-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwie...@ahsoftware.net


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Re: The Story of Steve Jobs - An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale

[Björnke von Gierke]

Sorry. I have no clue how it is to feel overweight and therefore my wording was 
inconsiderate.

I saw you addressing me as 'Bjorke', so I replied with a over the top post too. 
I started with 'Chippy' and then made a re-edit too much.

How about that off-list sparring match?
Bjoernke

On 17.08.2012, at 00:40, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Ouch.
> 
> A personal attack making fun of how a person looks, is low-- even for
> you, Bjoernke. I have had a serious health problem over the past few years
> which has resulted in my adding some un-needed weight-- of which I am
> sensitive about.
> 
> My poke was just a funny point at the attempts to 'manage' the conversation
> on this specifically OT thread. Yours was a cruel personal attack. Please
> apologize.
> 
> On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 6:24 AM, Björnke von Gierke  wrote:
> 
>> Hi Chubby
>> 
>> I'd say it's kinda sad to assume the only venue for everyone to talk about
>> politics is a mailing list for one specific IDE. But then, maybe making
>> snarky off topic remarks is yours and Bobbies only reprise from your
>> otherwise dull and non-political life? Who knows why he does it. But I know
>> why you do it, and i'm glad to serve as sparring partner, but not here.
>> 
>> Cheesy greetings
>> Bjoernke
>> 
>> 
> On 16.08.2012, at 07:17, Chipp Walters wrote:
> 
> > Oh, thank God for Bjorke and Pete. Congrats on your strong committment to
> > civility and thanks to you both we don't have to face any uncomfortable
> > comments.
> >
> > I'd have hated to actually have to actually ignore a comment which I didn't
> > agree with. You guys both all in their place. Way to go! Both heros for
> > sure!

-- 

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Re: The Story of Steve Jobs - An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale

[Bob Sneidar]

Mrrphl grrglmph mrrphlegrrgl phrmphhlt!  ;-)

Bob


On Aug 16, 2012, at 4:07 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 7:31 AM, Andrew Ctech  wrote:
>> Bob Sneidar frequently
>> uses [OT] posts to this list as a jumping off point for his wingnut
>> opinions.
> 
> It is quite clear that wingnuts are fare easier to tighten by hand
> than are traditional nuts.  How could anyone have a different opinion
> on the subject?


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Re: The Story of Steve Jobs - An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale

[Dr. Hawkins]

On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 7:31 AM, Andrew Ctech  wrote:
> Bob Sneidar frequently
> uses [OT] posts to this list as a jumping off point for his wingnut
> opinions.

It is quite clear that wingnuts are fare easier to tighten by hand
than are traditional nuts.  How could anyone have a different opinion
on the subject?


-- 
The Hawkins Law Firm
Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
(702) 508-8462
hawkinslawf...@gmail.com
3025 S. Maryland Parkway
Suite A
Las Vegas, NV  89109

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Re: The Story of Steve Jobs - An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale

[Roger Eller]

Seriously!  What has gotten into my favorite list folk?  Has there been a
solar-flare that has turned these guys into angry pre-apocolyptic zombies?
 Please, can't we all just share code, and get along again?

~Roger


On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 6:22 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:

> Can we be done with this silliness and get back to coding again?
>
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Re: The Story of Steve Jobs - An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale

[Chipp Walters]

Ouch.

A personal attack making fun of how a person looks, is low-- even for
you, Bjoernke. I have had a serious health problem over the past few years
which has resulted in my adding some un-needed weight-- of which I am
sensitive about.

My poke was just a funny point at the attempts to 'manage' the conversation
on this specifically OT thread. Yours was a cruel personal attack. Please
apologize.

On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 6:24 AM, Björnke von Gierke  wrote:

> Hi Chubby
>
> I'd say it's kinda sad to assume the only venue for everyone to talk about
> politics is a mailing list for one specific IDE. But then, maybe making
> snarky off topic remarks is yours and Bobbies only reprise from your
> otherwise dull and non-political life? Who knows why he does it. But I know
> why you do it, and i'm glad to serve as sparring partner, but not here.
>
> Cheesy greetings
> Bjoernke
>
>
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Re: The Story of Steve Jobs - An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale

[Mark Wieder]

Bob-

Thursday, August 16, 2012, 1:21:03 PM, you wrote:

> I didn't think what I posted was all that charged.

...and indeed it wasn't. Can we be done with this silliness and get
back to coding again?

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwie...@ahsoftware.net


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Re: The Story of Steve Jobs - An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale

[Bob Sneidar]

Thanks Peter I didn't think what I posted was all that charged. It wasn't even 
biased one way or another. I was simply responding to Alejandro's remark that I 
didn't think things were likely to change on either side of the aisle. 

Bob


On Aug 16, 2012, at 9:39 AM, Peter M. Brigham wrote:

> On Aug 16, 2012, at 9:02 AM, Bob Sneidar wrote:
> 
>> I have posted a great solution for all who are offended by me. Most email 
>> software has a great feature called Rules. You set a rule that will do a 
>> particular thing when the email meets a certain criteria. For instance, you 
>> could make a rule that sends any emails from me to the trash. I have already 
>> implemented this myself for a couple of you. :-)
>> 
>> The other thing you can do, and I do this often myself, is roll your eyes 
>> and click the delete button. It's not that hard. 
> 
> The last thing I want to do is consign all your postings to the trash, Bob. 
> You are a great contributor to the list. And I don't want to come down as 
> some sort of moralistic preacher about these things. All I wanted to do was 
> the remind you (and others) that everyone has buttons that can be pushed, and 
> that political remarks generally don't accomplish anything except triggering 
> emotional responses. So the result is infrared shift: no more light on 
> anything, just more heat. I guess my question is, is that what you want?
> 
> script of my button:
> 
> on mouseup
>   put the text of fld "email" into tRemark
>   if isOffensive(tRemark) then
>  steamComesOutOfMyEars
>  answer "Respond?" with "reply" or "ignore"
>  if it is "reply" then
> answer "What tone?" with "blast" or "tactful"
>  end if
>  if it is "blast" then answer "Don't do it!!!"
>  else if it is "tactful" then answer "Let's just get back to LC, shall 
> we?"
>   else
>  pass mouseup
>   end if
> end mouseup
> 
> -- Peter
> 
> Peter M. Brigham
> pmb...@gmail.com
> http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig
> 
> 
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Re: The Story of Steve Jobs - An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale

[Richard Gaskin]

The Ubuntu forums are perhaps the most restrictive I've ever 
participated in, even more than the old CompuServe forums where users 
were required to use their real names in an attempt to maintain a 
professional tone for conversations.


The Ubuntu forums are governed by a Code of Conduct, which describes 
what is really just pretty much what Emily Post might suggest for polite 
dinner conversation.


Among the general reminders of basic good manners in a diverse community 
of people with equally diverse opinions, the Ubuntu CoC goes even 
further to prohibit using pejorative terms to describe software 
products, companies, or their users (e.g. "MicroSloth", "iSheep" and 
"Phandroids").


When I first joined the Ubuntu forums I found it almost off-putting to 
see the occasional warning for posts that stray from the CoC.


But over time I've come to appreciate the unusually high signal-to-noise 
ratio there.  The Ubuntu forums are completely devoid of flame wars, and 
the participants are free to discuss darn near anything they like as 
long as it doesn't promote illegal activity or insult anyone, including 
makers or users of other software, because that would reflect poorly on 
the Ubuntu project and undermine their efforts to provide a welcoming 
environment for people from all backgrounds.


The one exception for topics there is politics.  Verboten in the Ubuntu 
forums, and I can't say I disagree:


In my decades of participating in online discussion, I've never yet seen 
a single person whose vote was change by a forum post.


But in stark contrast, I have seen a good many flame wars stem from such 
posts, sometimes escalating to dominate the board, creating a stream 
that can turn the signal-to-noise ratio negative pretty quickly.


There is no shortage of online venues for political discussion.  Let's 
use and enjoy those.


But there is only one use-livecode list, so let's please use and enjoy 
it for what it is, a place to discuss using LiveCode.




:)

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: The Story of Steve Jobs - An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale

[Jeff Reynolds]

So livecode now has embedded code for human brains?! Where is the upload 
socket? Glad to see they just skipped over mobile devices and went directly to 
the wetware.

Cheers, jeff

On Aug 16, 2012, at 1:00 PM, use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com wrote:

> on mouseup
>   put the text of fld "email" into tRemark
>   if isOffensive(tRemark) then
>  steamComesOutOfMyEars
>  answer "Respond?" with "reply" or "ignore"
>  if it is "reply" then
> answer "What tone?" with "blast" or "tactful"
>  end if
>  if it is "blast" then answer "Don't do it!!!"
>  else if it is "tactful" then answer "Let's just get back to LC, shall 
> we?"
>   else
>  pass mouseup
>   end if
> end mouseup

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Re: The Story of Steve Jobs - An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale

[Peter M. Brigham]

On Aug 16, 2012, at 9:02 AM, Bob Sneidar wrote:

> I have posted a great solution for all who are offended by me. Most email 
> software has a great feature called Rules. You set a rule that will do a 
> particular thing when the email meets a certain criteria. For instance, you 
> could make a rule that sends any emails from me to the trash. I have already 
> implemented this myself for a couple of you. :-)
> 
> The other thing you can do, and I do this often myself, is roll your eyes and 
> click the delete button. It's not that hard. 

The last thing I want to do is consign all your postings to the trash, Bob. You 
are a great contributor to the list. And I don't want to come down as some sort 
of moralistic preacher about these things. All I wanted to do was the remind 
you (and others) that everyone has buttons that can be pushed, and that 
political remarks generally don't accomplish anything except triggering 
emotional responses. So the result is infrared shift: no more light on 
anything, just more heat. I guess my question is, is that what you want?

script of my button:

on mouseup
   put the text of fld "email" into tRemark
   if isOffensive(tRemark) then
  steamComesOutOfMyEars
  answer "Respond?" with "reply" or "ignore"
  if it is "reply" then
 answer "What tone?" with "blast" or "tactful"
  end if
  if it is "blast" then answer "Don't do it!!!"
  else if it is "tactful" then answer "Let's just get back to LC, shall we?"
   else
  pass mouseup
   end if
end mouseup

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig


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Re: The Story of Steve Jobs - An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale

[Bob Sneidar]

I have posted a great solution for all who are offended by me. Most email 
software has a great feature called Rules. You set a rule that will do a 
particular thing when the email meets a certain criteria. For instance, you 
could make a rule that sends any emails from me to the trash. I have already 
implemented this myself for a couple of you. :-)

The other thing you can do, and I do this often myself, is roll your eyes and 
click the delete button. It's not that hard. 

Bob


On Aug 16, 2012, at 7:31 AM, Andrew Ctech wrote:

> If it were occasional, it wouldn't be such an issue. Bob Sneidar frequently
> uses [OT] posts to this list as a jumping off point for his wingnut
> opinions. I am all for arguing wacky positions on all things and have many
> wingnut opinions of my own, but I know this is not the proper venue for
> such. I have been wishing it would stop for some time, lest we want to take
> the gloves off and let the flamewars ensue.
> 
> On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 12:17 AM, Chipp Walters  wrote:
> 
>> Oh, thank God for Bjorke and Pete. Congrats on your strong committment to
>> civility and thanks to you both we don't have to face any uncomfortable
>> comments.
>> 
>> I'd have hated to actually have to actually ignore a comment which I didn't
>> agree with. You guys both all in their place. Way to go! Both heros for
>> sure!
>> 
>> 
>> On Wednesday, August 15, 2012, Björnke von Gierke wrote:
>> 
 I personally would prefer that members of this list refrain from
>>> political jabs.
 
 -- Peter
>>> 
>>> 
>>> You're my hero!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Chipp Walters
>> CEO, Altuit, Inc.
>> ___
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>> subscription preferences:
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>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Regards,
> 
> Andrew Kluthe
> and...@ctech.me
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Re: The Story of Steve Jobs - An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale

[Andrew Ctech]

If it were occasional, it wouldn't be such an issue. Bob Sneidar frequently
uses [OT] posts to this list as a jumping off point for his wingnut
opinions. I am all for arguing wacky positions on all things and have many
wingnut opinions of my own, but I know this is not the proper venue for
such. I have been wishing it would stop for some time, lest we want to take
the gloves off and let the flamewars ensue.

On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 12:17 AM, Chipp Walters  wrote:

> Oh, thank God for Bjorke and Pete. Congrats on your strong committment to
> civility and thanks to you both we don't have to face any uncomfortable
> comments.
>
> I'd have hated to actually have to actually ignore a comment which I didn't
> agree with. You guys both all in their place. Way to go! Both heros for
> sure!
>
>
> On Wednesday, August 15, 2012, Björnke von Gierke wrote:
>
> > > I personally would prefer that members of this list refrain from
> > political jabs.
> > >
> > > -- Peter
> >
> >
> > You're my hero!
> >
> >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com 
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
>
>
> --
> Chipp Walters
> CEO, Altuit, Inc.
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Andrew Kluthe
and...@ctech.me
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Re: The Story of Steve Jobs - An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale

[Björnke von Gierke]

Hi Chubby

I'd say it's kinda sad to assume the only venue for everyone to talk about 
politics is a mailing list for one specific IDE. But then, maybe making snarky 
off topic remarks is yours and Bobbies only reprise from your otherwise dull 
and non-political life? Who knows why he does it. But I know why you do it, and 
i'm glad to serve as sparring partner, but not here.

Cheesy greetings
Bjoernke


On 16.08.2012, at 07:17, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Oh, thank God for Bjorke and Pete. Congrats on your strong committment to
> civility and thanks to you both we don't have to face any uncomfortable
> comments.
> 
> I'd have hated to actually have to actually ignore a comment which I didn't
> agree with. You guys both all in their place. Way to go! Both heros for
> sure!


-- 

Use an alternative Dictionary viewer:
http://bjoernke.com/bvgdocu/

Chat with other RunRev developers:
http://bjoernke.com/chatrev/



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Re: The Story of Steve Jobs - An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale

[Chipp Walters]

Oh, thank God for Bjorke and Pete. Congrats on your strong committment to
civility and thanks to you both we don't have to face any uncomfortable
comments.

I'd have hated to actually have to actually ignore a comment which I didn't
agree with. You guys both all in their place. Way to go! Both heros for
sure!


On Wednesday, August 15, 2012, Björnke von Gierke wrote:

> > I personally would prefer that members of this list refrain from
> political jabs.
> >
> > -- Peter
>
>
> You're my hero!
>
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com 
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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-- 
Chipp Walters
CEO, Altuit, Inc.
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Re: The Story of Steve Jobs - An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale

[Björnke von Gierke]

> I personally would prefer that members of this list refrain from political 
> jabs.
> 
> -- Peter


You're my hero!


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Re: The Story of Steve Jobs - An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale

[Andrew Ctech]

Thank you, Peter.

On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 12:07 AM, Peter M. Brigham  wrote:

> On Aug 14, 2012, at 2:28 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote:
>
> > I know. I feel like I am the cheated one because I work. But (and at the
> risk of inviting someone's ire) any politician who tries to fix this will
> find HIMSELF on welfare and out of a job pretty soon. Crazy, huh?
>
> There are other ways of looking at this issue, but I won't get into a
> substantive response. This is not the place for such discussions. I
> personally would prefer that members of this list refrain from political
> jabs.
>
> -- Peter
>
> Peter M. Brigham
> pmb...@gmail.com
> http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig
>
>
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Re: The Story of Steve Jobs - An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale

[Peter M. Brigham]

On Aug 14, 2012, at 2:28 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote:

> I know. I feel like I am the cheated one because I work. But (and at the risk 
> of inviting someone's ire) any politician who tries to fix this will find 
> HIMSELF on welfare and out of a job pretty soon. Crazy, huh?

There are other ways of looking at this issue, but I won't get into a 
substantive response. This is not the place for such discussions. I personally 
would prefer that members of this list refrain from political jabs.

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig


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Re: The Story of Steve Jobs - An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale

[Bob Sneidar]

Nice. :-)

On Aug 14, 2012, at 3:14 PM, Alejandro Tejada wrote:

> Bob,
> 
> 
> slylabs13 wrote
>> 
>> I know. I feel like I am the cheated one because I work.
>> But (and at the risk of inviting someone's ire) any politician
>> who tries to fix this will find HIMSELF on welfare and out
>> of a job pretty soon. Crazy, huh?
>> 
> 
> smile...
> http://www.prosebeforehos.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/new-normal-college-and-unemployment.png
> 
> Al
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/The-Story-of-Steve-Jobs-An-Inspiration-or-a-Cautionary-Tale-tp4653671p4653804.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 
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Re: The Story of Steve Jobs - An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale

[Alejandro Tejada]

Bob,


slylabs13 wrote
> 
> I know. I feel like I am the cheated one because I work.
> But (and at the risk of inviting someone's ire) any politician
> who tries to fix this will find HIMSELF on welfare and out
> of a job pretty soon. Crazy, huh?
> 

smile...
http://www.prosebeforehos.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/new-normal-college-and-unemployment.png

Al



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Re: The Story of Steve Jobs - An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale

[Bob Sneidar]

I know. I feel like I am the cheated one because I work. But (and at the risk 
of inviting someone's ire) any politician who tries to fix this will find 
HIMSELF on welfare and out of a job pretty soon. Crazy, huh?

Bob


On Aug 14, 2012, at 1:44 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Ugh. Didn't know that. And I expect it to go up with the baby boomers
> retiring soon...
> 
> On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 12:35 PM, Alejandro Tejada
> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> "when Social Security, Medicare and unemployment benefits are included,
>> nearly half of the nation lived in a household that received a government
>> check, according to the analysis of third-quarter 2010 Census data done
>> by the Mercatus Center at George Mason University, a libertarian-leaning
>> think tank. That's more than 148 million Americans."
>> 
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Re: The Story of Steve Jobs - An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale

[Chipp Walters]

Ugh. Didn't know that. And I expect it to go up with the baby boomers
retiring soon...

On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 12:35 PM, Alejandro Tejada
wrote:

>
> "when Social Security, Medicare and unemployment benefits are included,
> nearly half of the nation lived in a household that received a government
> check, according to the analysis of third-quarter 2010 Census data done
> by the Mercatus Center at George Mason University, a libertarian-leaning
> think tank. That's more than 148 million Americans."
>
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Re: The Story of Steve Jobs - An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale

[Alejandro Tejada]

Chipp Walters wrote
> 
> [snip]
> I was hired as a consultant at Apple and knew a bunch of
> employees, and most every one of them had a real entitlement
> issue-- so much so they thought they didn't have to do their
> work and hired folks like me to do it for them.
> 

That sounds like the exact description of some government
office workers... at least where I live. :-((


Chipp Walters wrote
> 
> As a consultant, you're not guaranteed a salary from month to
> month. (Of course, come to think of it, the same is true for
> employees these days-- with a net loss of over 300,000 jobs
> in America these past 3 years..
> http://www.libertynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/prez-jobs-1024x791.jpg)
> 

300,000 jobs lost! How many more websites like this would appear?
http://www.suddenlyunemployed.com/forums/index.php

This sad statistic probably explains news like these:
http://money.cnn.com/2012/02/07/news/economy/government_assistance/index.htm

"when Social Security, Medicare and unemployment benefits are included,
nearly half of the nation lived in a household that received a government
check, according to the analysis of third-quarter 2010 Census data done
by the Mercatus Center at George Mason University, a libertarian-leaning
think tank. That's more than 148 million Americans."

Al



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Re: The Story of Steve Jobs - An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale

[Chipp Walters]

Bob,

I 100% agree with what you say. Each person needs different kinds of
motivation. I used to have a brillant game designer who was unmatched in
our company. Still, every 6 months or so I needed to go in to his office
and have a heart to heart regarding his work ethic. Then, he was good for
another 5 months...

Another guy I worked with was so conscientious that if even suggested he
wasn't giving me 100% it would crush him and he would sulk for days. I
really only ever did this once and learned my lesson as his manager.

As you say, there are some who are self-motivated, and others need some
'prodding.' I don't think ever diminishing somebody in front of their
co-workers provides any sort of long term results. Jobs got away of it in
spite of himself. I was hired as a consultant at Apple and knew a bunch of
employees, and most every one of them had a real entitlement issue-- so
much so they thought they didn't have to do their work and hired folks like
me to do it for them.

There was this young early 20 something Apple employee I met at his
cubicle. He showed me the websites he was working on-- so proud he was of
their design. The websites were for local businesses and I asked him if
Apple was designing sites for small companies? His reply was no, it's his
own company (his "company logo" was there on his Apple computer desktop)
and that Apple didn't pay him enough so he had to do work outside. I asked
him how much Apple was paying him and he replied $82K. Wow.

I knew many others there who didn't think they were paid enough, or
complained incessantly. I suppose it's the consultant mindset in me that
makes me bristle at the whole entitlement thing-- when I've got to go out
and sell the job, work with the client, do the job well enough so they'll
come back again next month. As a consultant, you're not guaranteed a salary
from month to month. (Of course, come to think of it, the same is true for
employees these days-- with a net loss of over 300,000 jobs in America
these past 3 years..
http://www.libertynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/prez-jobs-1024x791.jpg)

Jobs brilliance and superb product line management created space for these
people to exist-- so in some small way, I can *kinda* see him going off.
Still, some of the stories where he just fired folks for no good reason--
seemingly to just throw his weight/ego around-- I dunno.

On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 11:54 AM, Bob Sneidar  wrote:

> There are different methods for dealing with each of these kinds of
> workers, and applying any single method of management across the board can
> be disastrous. Put a self motivator on a short leash and you can expect he
> will be working for someone else within six months. Let everything fall out
> as it will as though everyone had a high work ethic, and you can expect
> widespread lethargy and an environment of strife and contention well within
> six months.
>
>
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Re: The Story of Steve Jobs - An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale

[Bob Sneidar]

Should give us all pause. I think this applies to all of us. In fact, it 
inspired one of the greatest poets and philosophers in history to say, "Vanity, 
vanity, all is vanity and vexation of spirit." I tend to think he felt that way 
because he "didn't finish the book" as it were. 

Bob


On Aug 13, 2012, at 12:30 PM, Lynn Fredricks wrote:

> He was brought down by one of many
> diseases that doesn't respect financial success, creativity or innovation,
> and in the end, he died just like everyone else. 


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Re: The Story of Steve Jobs - An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale

[Alejandro Tejada]

Chipp Walters wrote
> 
> Great article. Thanks!
> 

You are welcome!

I was looking for in the archives for this mail list,
because I am sure that we had discussed before
these same topics highlighted in the article...
but could not find the exact message thread.

Al




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Re: The Story of Steve Jobs - An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale

[Richmond Mathewson]

Lynn Fredricks wrote:

On Aug 13, 2012, at 9:25 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:
Read and save this article about Steve Jobs.
I could assure you that his "management style"
will find many followers in the short place and near future.

We should expect disastrous results in more than one case...

http://www.wired.com/business/2012/07/ff_stevejobs/all/



What's sad to me is that there are people who think you have to emulate his
behavior (bad with the good) to be successful or creative or innovative.
That's the worst sort of tribal, pre-sapiens thinking that belongs in Lord
of the Flies. 


Then, consider what SJ got as his reward. He was brought down by one of many
diseases that doesn't respect financial success, creativity or innovation,
and in the end, he died just like everyone else. Except he was admired by
many who really didn't know him, and hated by many who were probably closer
to him than his own family. I don't think in the last hours of his life he
felt all that successful.
  


All rather sad.

Mind you I do think that people who have overwheening ambitions never 
feel they are successful.



Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Paradigma Software
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server 




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RE: The Story of Steve Jobs - An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale

[Lynn Fredricks]

> On Aug 13, 2012, at 9:25 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:
> Read and save this article about Steve Jobs.
> I could assure you that his "management style"
> will find many followers in the short place and near future.
> 
> We should expect disastrous results in more than one case...
> 
> http://www.wired.com/business/2012/07/ff_stevejobs/all/

What's sad to me is that there are people who think you have to emulate his
behavior (bad with the good) to be successful or creative or innovative.
That's the worst sort of tribal, pre-sapiens thinking that belongs in Lord
of the Flies. 

Then, consider what SJ got as his reward. He was brought down by one of many
diseases that doesn't respect financial success, creativity or innovation,
and in the end, he died just like everyone else. Except he was admired by
many who really didn't know him, and hated by many who were probably closer
to him than his own family. I don't think in the last hours of his life he
felt all that successful.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Paradigma Software
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server 



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Re: The Story of Steve Jobs - An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale

[Mike Kerner]

Proving once again that management styles and people and governmental
structures can vary widely and still achieve..and fail.

-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: The Story of Steve Jobs - An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale

[Bob Sneidar]

I have to think there is some kind of compromise. I work in a place where 
almost no one is watched or managed, and I can tell you that all but the very 
diligent and self motivated really do much. (I hope nobody who works here reads 
this!) Having spend 6 years in the Navy, I came to realize that there are 
differing classes of people when it comes to work ethic. Some are self 
motivating, partly because they have a strong moral ethic about it, some are 
good workers so long as someone is watching, or they think someone may be 
watching, some will only work hard when they are rebuked and/or disciplined, 
and some who you can hardly get to work at all. 

There are different methods for dealing with each of these kinds of workers, 
and applying any single method of management across the board can be 
disastrous. Put a self motivator on a short leash and you can expect he will be 
working for someone else within six months. Let everything fall out as it will 
as though everyone had a high work ethic, and you can expect widespread 
lethargy and an environment of strife and contention well within six months. 

Steve's problem was that he was critical (it seems by all reports) of everyone, 
including his best people. Maybe in the end he got the only people he could 
hang on to, that is people who only performed when he kicked their butts. 

Bob


On Aug 13, 2012, at 9:25 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Read and save this article about Steve Jobs.
> I could assure you that his "management style"
> will find many followers in the short place and
> near future.
> 
> We should expect disastrous results in more
> than one case...
> 
> http://www.wired.com/business/2012/07/ff_stevejobs/all/
> 
> Al


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Re: The Story of Steve Jobs - An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale

[Chipp Walters]

Great article. Thanks!

On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 9:16 PM, Alejandro Tejada wrote:

> Read and save this article about Steve Jobs.
> I could assure you that his "management style"
> will find many followers in the short place and
> near future.
>
> We should expect disastrous results in more
> than one case...
>
> http://www.wired.com/business/2012/07/ff_stevejobs/all/
>
> Al
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/The-Story-of-Steve-Jobs-An-Inspiration-or-a-Cautionary-Tale-tp4653671.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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-- 
Chipp Walters
CEO, Altuit, Inc.
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The Story of Steve Jobs - An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale

[Alejandro Tejada]

Read and save this article about Steve Jobs.
I could assure you that his "management style"
will find many followers in the short place and
near future.

We should expect disastrous results in more
than one case...

http://www.wired.com/business/2012/07/ff_stevejobs/all/

Al



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