Re: gratuitous inclusion of oracle in 7.0.2-RC2
On Feb 4, 2015, at 6:48 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: Can you give us some estimates (or actual numbers) for: - Number of objects Lots. Lots and lots and lots. :) I don't even know how to guess. Looks like generally 60-200 per page on the main entry stack of 12 cards, with about 1200 lines of code between the stack and cards. Hmm, only 600 objects on the Chapter 13 plan; Im surprised. snip Here's a script I use to get the number of lines of code in my stack system. Adapt it as needed. In some of my stacks I have many cards but they all have the same backgrounds. I have only a few stacks where multiple cards have their own controls (as opposed to those belonging to a place background), so you'll have to adjust accordingly. (See the line starting if the short name of stack s is among the items of...) -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmb...@gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig - function countScriptLines put the mainstack of stack PDdata into ms put the long id of stack ms into mainID put the number of lines of the script of mainID into totScrLines put the number of lines of the script of card 1 of mainID into scrLines add scrLines to totScrLines put the substacks of mainID into ssList repeat for each line s in ssList put the number of lines of the script of stack s into scrLines add scrLines to totScrLines if the short name of stack s is among the items of PCAreferral,PCPletter, \ termination then -- two cards, with different layouts put the number of cards of stack s into nbrCards else put 1 into nbrCards end if repeat with c = 1 to nbrCards put the number of lines of the script of card c of stack s into scrLines add scrLines to totScrLines put the number of controls of card c of stack s into nbrControls repeat with o = 1 to nbrControls put the short id of control o of card c of stack s into thisCtrlID if c 1 then -- second card -- don't duplicate shared controls if there is a control id thisCtrlID of card 1 of stack s then next repeat end if end if put the long id of control o of card c of stack s into ctrID put the number of lines of the script of ctrID into scrLines add scrLines to totScrLines end repeat end repeat end repeat return totScrLines end countScriptLines ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: gratuitous inclusion of oracle in 7.0.2-RC2
J. Landman Gay wrote: The project I've been on lately has hundreds of stacks and thousands of support files with gigabytes of data, they're just not all in the main app. It's easier that way. The app itself takes under 15 seconds to compile. That's a good strategy for many reasons, but I still believe compiling any standalone, even a complex one, should never take more than a minute. At the heart of the build process for the desktop all that's happening is the mainstack file is bound to a copy of the runtime engine, which by itself takes about a quarter-second. Depending on your settings there may be other steps, like moving stacks in or out of the standalone file, clearing a few custom props, etc., but 15 minutes is a looong time for a tool famous for offering zero-compile-time. I've run code base analytics on fairly complex stacks, and the worst of them took less than a minute. Perhaps what LC is doing is even more complex, but given the speed with which LC can traverse objects and parse text I'm fairly confident what we're seeing here is a bug, likely from some redundant script analysis. Let's look at the worst cases first: If any of you have stacks that take longer than 5 minutes to build a desktop standalone, and you're in a position to share the stack with RunRev's support team so they can figure out why it takes so long, please open a bug report against this so we can find out what's going on. Even better: if anyone here has some time on their hands and is up for a challenge, it may be worthwhile poking around in the Standalone Builder scripts to see if you can find where the bottleneck lies. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: gratuitous inclusion of oracle in 7.0.2-RC2
Ya once I heard about the splashStack method and all the problems it solves, it’s the only way I will build an app now. Bob S On Feb 4, 2015, at 22:25 , J. Landman Gay jac...@hyperactivesw.commailto:jac...@hyperactivesw.com wrote: On 2/4/2015 11:54 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 5:00 PM, J. Landman Gay jac...@hyperactivesw.commailto:jac...@hyperactivesw.com wrote: I've never built an app that large, for something like that I usually use the splash method so that I can have modules. Oh, and you're not selling to lawyers :) True, but I'm not sure that affects compile times... I didn't actully mean I never had a project that large, only that I never had an app that large (and I wouldn't build one.) The project I've been on lately has hundreds of stacks and thousands of support files with gigabytes of data, they're just not all in the main app. It's easier that way. The app itself takes under 15 seconds to compile. The heavy-duty working part has maybe 3500 lines of backscript, four behavior scripts, three substacks, and maybe 100 small images. Everything else -- the actual content -- is distributed among separate module stacks that each contain the images, media, text, etc. that are relevant to that stack. But I don't have to compile those. Using a single main app to run the whole shebang makes revisions very easy, we just upload new content stacks to the server and the main app pulls them down as needed. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.commailto:jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.comhttp://www.hyperactivesw.com/ ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: gratuitous inclusion of oracle in 7.0.2-RC2
Dr. Hawkins wrote: I just saw livecode take 15 minutes building a standalone (quadcore i5,16gb)... That's a very long time. Can you give us some estimates (or actual numbers) for: - Number of objects - Number of lines of code - Total stack file size -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: gratuitous inclusion of oracle in 7.0.2-RC2
On 2/4/2015 11:54 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 5:00 PM, J. Landman Gay jac...@hyperactivesw.com wrote: I've never built an app that large, for something like that I usually use the splash method so that I can have modules. Oh, and you're not selling to lawyers :) True, but I'm not sure that affects compile times... I didn't actully mean I never had a project that large, only that I never had an app that large (and I wouldn't build one.) The project I've been on lately has hundreds of stacks and thousands of support files with gigabytes of data, they're just not all in the main app. It's easier that way. The app itself takes under 15 seconds to compile. The heavy-duty working part has maybe 3500 lines of backscript, four behavior scripts, three substacks, and maybe 100 small images. Everything else -- the actual content -- is distributed among separate module stacks that each contain the images, media, text, etc. that are relevant to that stack. But I don't have to compile those. Using a single main app to run the whole shebang makes revisions very easy, we just upload new content stacks to the server and the main app pulls them down as needed. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: gratuitous inclusion of oracle in 7.0.2-RC2
That doesn't seem big enough to need 15 minutes to scan the objects. Anyone else seen anything like this? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com Dr. Hawkins wrote: On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 11:20 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: I just saw livecode take 15 minutes building a standalone (quadcore i5,16gb)... That's a very long time. indeed :) I think it was something like 3-5 min with 5.5, but it probably wasn't even that long Can you give us some estimates (or actual numbers) for: - Number of objects Lots. Lots and lots and lots. :) I don't even know how to guess. Looks like generally 60-200 per page on the main entry stack of 12 cards, with about 1200 lines of code between the stack and cards. Hmm, only 600 objects on the Chapter 13 plan; Im surprised. Who knows how many orphaned bits. Ony a couple of simple images, and a couple of pdfs of court forms turned into jpg images. - Number of lines of code 12,000 lines of code (including older commneted out) in the main control stack . Another couple of sacks with 7000 and 3000 lines in the stack files. 30 cards in the stack of forms for general output, with six more in a nevada forms stack, generally with little or no code -- but many hving hundres of objects (theone I just opened has 450 to generatethree pages) Probably 8-9k lines in the buttons for behaviors that reside one the first page of the main sack. A few more small stacks. And some older parts of the program have more objects with scripts. I'd sure love to have livecode distribute over a directory rather than be monolithic . . . - Total stack file size -- 14.5mb--but versions from earlier today are 11.8mb. Nothing of consequence was added. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: gratuitous inclusion of oracle in 7.0.2-RC2
I have a project where there was a main stack with some subs stacks, and the whole size was 100 MB. Probably 4000 cards + 200 images. It was taken maybe 15+ minutes to build. I took out the large sub stacks and keep them separate in a data folder. Now it takes seconds to build a launcher stack that opens all the other stacks. This makes updating files easier as well. Peter UCLA On Feb 4, 2015, at 4:12 PM, Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.com wrote: That doesn't seem big enough to need 15 minutes to scan the objects. Anyone else seen anything like this? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com Dr. Hawkins wrote: On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 11:20 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: I just saw livecode take 15 minutes building a standalone (quadcore i5,16gb)... That's a very long time. indeed :) I think it was something like 3-5 min with 5.5, but it probably wasn't even that long Can you give us some estimates (or actual numbers) for: - Number of objects Lots. Lots and lots and lots. :) I don't even know how to guess. Looks like generally 60-200 per page on the main entry stack of 12 cards, with about 1200 lines of code between the stack and cards. Hmm, only 600 objects on the Chapter 13 plan; Im surprised. Who knows how many orphaned bits. Ony a couple of simple images, and a couple of pdfs of court forms turned into jpg images. - Number of lines of code 12,000 lines of code (including older commneted out) in the main control stack . Another couple of sacks with 7000 and 3000 lines in the stack files. 30 cards in the stack of forms for general output, with six more in a nevada forms stack, generally with little or no code -- but many hving hundres of objects (theone I just opened has 450 to generatethree pages) Probably 8-9k lines in the buttons for behaviors that reside one the first page of the main sack. A few more small stacks. And some older parts of the program have more objects with scripts. I'd sure love to have livecode distribute over a directory rather than be monolithic . . . - Total stack file size -- 14.5mb--but versions from earlier today are 11.8mb. Nothing of consequence was added. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: gratuitous inclusion of oracle in 7.0.2-RC2
On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 11:20 AM, Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.com wrote: I just saw livecode take 15 minutes building a standalone (quadcore i5,16gb)... That's a very long time. indeed :) I think it was something like 3-5 min with 5.5, but it probably wasn't even that long Can you give us some estimates (or actual numbers) for: - Number of objects Lots. Lots and lots and lots. :) I don't even know how to guess. Looks like generally 60-200 per page on the main entry stack of 12 cards, with about 1200 lines of code between the stack and cards. Hmm, only 600 objects on the Chapter 13 plan; Im surprised. Who knows how many orphaned bits. Ony a couple of simple images, and a couple of pdfs of court forms turned into jpg images. - Number of lines of code 12,000 lines of code (including older commneted out) in the main control stack . Another couple of sacks with 7000 and 3000 lines in the stack files. 30 cards in the stack of forms for general output, with six more in a nevada forms stack, generally with little or no code -- but many hving hundres of objects (theone I just opened has 450 to generatethree pages) Probably 8-9k lines in the buttons for behaviors that reside one the first page of the main sack. A few more small stacks. And some older parts of the program have more objects with scripts. I'd sure love to have livecode distribute over a directory rather than be monolithic . . . - Total stack file size -- 14.5mb--but versions from earlier today are 11.8mb. Nothing of consequence was added. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: gratuitous inclusion of oracle in 7.0.2-RC2
J. Landman Gay wrote: On 2/4/2015 6:12 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: That doesn't seem big enough to need 15 minutes to scan the objects. Anyone else seen anything like this? I've never built an app that large, for something like that I usually use the splash method so that I can have modules. I'm still thinking the slowdown is due to having search for required inclusions selected in the standalone settings. The search would have to scan and parse at least 30,000+ lines just given the specs that were listed. Is it reading the code, or trying to write it? :) I'd flag it as a bug. Any option that requires that much time is a candidate for reconsidering. But given how fast LC is at slicing and dicing objects and scripts, I'll be there's just something in there doing a redundant check. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: gratuitous inclusion of oracle in 7.0.2-RC2
On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 5:00 PM, J. Landman Gay jac...@hyperactivesw.com wrote: I'm still thinking the slowdown is due to having search for required inclusions selected in the standalone settings. The search would have to scan and parse at least 30,000+ lines just given the specs that were listed. Richard (the Hawkins one,) did you try turning that off? Yes. Certainly faster, but still a few minutes to compile (but it was minutes in 5.5, too) I'll try to time the next one--but the real issue is that it's long enough that I hesitate o compile. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: gratuitous inclusion of oracle in 7.0.2-RC2
On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 5:00 PM, J. Landman Gay jac...@hyperactivesw.com wrote: I've never built an app that large, for something like that I usually use the splash method so that I can have modules. Oh, and you're not selling to lawyers :) Once the program is established, changes will actually happen more in the codeless substacks that have the output forms. (designed with an eye on iOS) -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: gratuitous inclusion of oracle in 7.0.2-RC2
I have created a distribution standalone under 7.0.2 RC 2 and besides it not creating a 64 bit binary experienced no other issues. Seemed just as fast as normal. Cheers, Jeff On 4 Feb 2015, at 2:25 pm, Dr. Hawkins doch...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 6:04 PM, Dr. Hawkins doch...@gmail.com wrote: Aside from the fact that that should be findable, should this take this long? OK, 15 minutes seems to be how long it takes *without* errors, too. I feel like I fell into the 1980s . . . -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
gratuitous inclusion of oracle in 7.0.2-RC2
I just saw livecode take 15 minutes building a standalone (quadcore i5,16gb) before finally putting up a message (which I didn't save correctly) that it couldn't find the oracle database driver (which I don't need,anyway). Aside from the fact that that should be findable, should this take this long? -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: gratuitous inclusion of oracle in 7.0.2-RC2
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 6:04 PM, Dr. Hawkins doch...@gmail.com wrote: Aside from the fact that that should be findable, should this take this long? OK, 15 minutes seems to be how long it takes *without* errors, too. I feel like I fell into the 1980s . . . -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: gratuitous inclusion of oracle in 7.0.2-RC2
Do you have search for inclusions in standalone settings set? If so, it has to read every script and look at every object. It's the default. Choose the option to specify inclusions manually. On February 3, 2015 9:25:56 PM CST, Dr. Hawkins doch...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 6:04 PM, Dr. Hawkins doch...@gmail.com wrote: Aside from the fact that that should be findable, should this take this long? OK, 15 minutes seems to be how long it takes *without* errors, too. I feel like I fell into the 1980s . . . -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
