Re: scripted Show tooltip not a thing?

[David V Glasgow via use-livecode]

I rather lazily didn’t post an update, but on reflection I had already decided 
to do exactly what you recommend, Richard.  

Your advice isn’t wasted because my thinking about why it is the best thing to 
do wasn’t that clear.  It is an important UI point you make about advice only 
being  useful as an antecedent of choice.  Also, since I have avoided flippy 
flappy tooltips in my rather control-crowded app, it makes zero sense to have 
one exception which users would have no knowledge of, or reason to find until 
they stumble upon it.  And then maybe wonder why the same doesn’t happen 
elsewhere.

Why is it so easy to design a bad UI, when it is such a pleasure to experience 
a good one?

Thanks,

David G

> On 14 Jan 2022, at 10:33 pm, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Tooltips can be a solution, but the mechanism has some limitations in this 
> context.
> 
> First, tooltips are a sort of hidden feature, where the user discovers them 
> only after moving the mouse over the object.  Prior to that moment they're 
> invisible, offering no guidance at all.
> 
> And in this case, the good explanatory text you're offering can't be seen 
> until after the user commits to a choice, but that explanation would seem 
> helpful to guide them to making that choice.
> 
> If space permits, you could consider adding the explanatory text in 
> parentheses after the symbol directly in the control:
> 
>  -
>  | = (Equals)|
>  | ≤ (Is at least)   |
>  | ≅ (Is approximately)  |
>  -
> 
> This would allow users to fully grasp the implications of a choice before 
> making it.
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> 
> 
> avid Glasgow wrote:
> 
>> I have an app in which tooltips are generally off.  I also have a button 
>> menu which allows the selection of equality/inequelity.  Users are non 
>> technical, and on selection (i.e. not the usual hover) I wanted to pop up a 
>> brief tooltip describing the selected item in ordinary language 
>> (irrespective of whether tooltips are globally on or off):
>> on menuPick pChosenItem
>>   set the label of me to pChosenitem
>>   switch
>>  case pChosenItem = "="
>> set the tooltip of me to "Equals"
>> break
>>  case pChosenItem = "≤"
>> set the tooltip of me to  “Is at least"
>> break
>>  case pChosenItem = "≅"
>> set the tooltip of me to “Is approximately"
>> break
>>   end switch
>>   set the tooltipdelay to 500
>>   show the tooltip of me
>>   set the tooltip delay to 0
>> end menuPick
>> It seems  show the tooltip of me isn’t a thing.  I appreciate that I could 
>> show and hide an ordinary field, but I wondered if I have overlooked a 
>> suitable message and/or syntax that will enable what I want. Best Wishes,
>> David Glasgow
> 
> 
> 
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Re: scripted Show tooltip not a thing?

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Tooltips can be a solution, but the mechanism has some limitations in 
this context.


First, tooltips are a sort of hidden feature, where the user discovers 
them only after moving the mouse over the object.  Prior to that moment 
they're invisible, offering no guidance at all.


And in this case, the good explanatory text you're offering can't be 
seen until after the user commits to a choice, but that explanation 
would seem helpful to guide them to making that choice.


If space permits, you could consider adding the explanatory text in 
parentheses after the symbol directly in the control:


  -
  | = (Equals)|
  | ≤ (Is at least)   |
  | ≅ (Is approximately)  |
  -

This would allow users to fully grasp the implications of a choice 
before making it.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems


avid Glasgow wrote:


I have an app in which tooltips are generally off.  I also have a button menu 
which allows the selection of equality/inequelity.  Users are non technical, 
and on selection (i.e. not the usual hover) I wanted to pop up a brief tooltip 
describing the selected item in ordinary language (irrespective of whether 
tooltips are globally on or off):

on menuPick pChosenItem
   set the label of me to pChosenitem
   switch
  case pChosenItem = "="
 set the tooltip of me to "Equals"
 break
  case pChosenItem = "≤"
 set the tooltip of me to  “Is at least"
 break
  case pChosenItem = "≅"
 set the tooltip of me to “Is approximately"
 break
   end switch
   set the tooltipdelay to 500
   show the tooltip of me
   set the tooltip delay to 0
end menuPick

It seems  show the tooltip of me isn’t a thing.  I appreciate that I could show and hide an ordinary field, but I wondered if I have overlooked a suitable message and/or syntax that will enable what I want. 



Best Wishes,

David Glasgow




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Re: scripted Show tooltip not a thing?

[Richmond via use-livecode]

https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7=36647=211966#p211966

On 14.01.22 13:10, David V Glasgow via use-livecode wrote:

Thanks all.

I scripted as if the delay was the duration the tooltip is displayed.  Duh!  Of 
course the delay is hover delay before the tooltip shows!  I knew that, and yet 
somehow didn’t know it at the same time.

Cheers

David G


On 11 Jan 2022, at 2:48 pm, Craig Newman via use-livecode 
 wrote:

You can do this. In a button script;

on mouseenter

set the tooltip of me to random(999)

end mouseenter


Now every time you move the cursor into that button, you get a new integer when 
you hover.

Craig


On Jan 11, 2022, at 9:38 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

Hi David,


Am 11.01.2022 um 15:29 schrieb David Glasgow via use-livecode 
:

Hi folks

I have an app in which tooltips are generally off.  I also have a button menu 
which allows the selection of equality/inequelity.  Users are non technical, 
and on selection (i.e. not the usual hover) I wanted to pop up a brief tooltip 
describing the selected item in ordinary language (irrespective of whether 
tooltips are globally on or off):

on menuPick pChosenItem
set the label of me to pChosenitem
switch
case pChosenItem = "="
   set the tooltip of me to "Equals"
   break
case pChosenItem = "≤"
   set the tooltip of me to  “Is at least"
   break
case pChosenItem = "≅"
   set the tooltip of me to “Is approximately"
   break
end switch
set the tooltipdelay to 500
show the tooltip of me
set the tooltip delay to 0
end menuPick

It seems  show the tooltip of me isn’t a thing.  I appreciate that I could show 
and hide an ordinary field, but I wondered if I have overlooked a suitable 
message and/or syntax that will enable what I want.


Best Wishes,

David Glasgow

well, we cannot explicitely show a tooltip by script.
So "show the tooltup of me" will not work if it doesn't throw an error.

Problem in your script:
...
set the tooltipdelay to 500
## from this point the tooltip will appear in 500 millisecs
## show the tooltip of me

## but this will disable the tooltip again much EARLIER than the 500 millisecs!
## LC is too fast for this :-)
set the tooltip delay to 0
...


Best

Klaus



--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de 
https://www.major-k.de/bass  >
kl...@major-k.de  >


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Re: scripted Show tooltip not a thing?

[David V Glasgow via use-livecode]

Thanks all.

I scripted as if the delay was the duration the tooltip is displayed.  Duh!  Of 
course the delay is hover delay before the tooltip shows!  I knew that, and yet 
somehow didn’t know it at the same time.

Cheers

David G

> On 11 Jan 2022, at 2:48 pm, Craig Newman via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> You can do this. In a button script;
> 
> on mouseenter
> 
> set the tooltip of me to random(999)
> 
> end mouseenter
> 
> 
> Now every time you move the cursor into that button, you get a new integer 
> when you hover.
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Jan 11, 2022, at 9:38 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
>> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi David,
>> 
>>> Am 11.01.2022 um 15:29 schrieb David Glasgow via use-livecode 
>>> :
>>> 
>>> Hi folks
>>> 
>>> I have an app in which tooltips are generally off.  I also have a button 
>>> menu which allows the selection of equality/inequelity.  Users are non 
>>> technical, and on selection (i.e. not the usual hover) I wanted to pop up a 
>>> brief tooltip describing the selected item in ordinary language 
>>> (irrespective of whether tooltips are globally on or off):
>>> 
>>> on menuPick pChosenItem
>>> set the label of me to pChosenitem
>>> switch
>>>case pChosenItem = "="
>>>   set the tooltip of me to "Equals"
>>>   break
>>>case pChosenItem = "≤"
>>>   set the tooltip of me to  “Is at least"
>>>   break
>>>case pChosenItem = "≅"
>>>   set the tooltip of me to “Is approximately"
>>>   break
>>> end switch
>>> set the tooltipdelay to 500
>>> show the tooltip of me
>>> set the tooltip delay to 0
>>> end menuPick
>>> 
>>> It seems  show the tooltip of me isn’t a thing.  I appreciate that I could 
>>> show and hide an ordinary field, but I wondered if I have overlooked a 
>>> suitable message and/or syntax that will enable what I want. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Best Wishes,
>>> 
>>> David Glasgow
>> 
>> well, we cannot explicitely show a tooltip by script.
>> So "show the tooltup of me" will not work if it doesn't throw an error.
>> 
>> Problem in your script:
>> ...
>> set the tooltipdelay to 500
>> ## from this point the tooltip will appear in 500 millisecs
>> ## show the tooltip of me
>> 
>> ## but this will disable the tooltip again much EARLIER than the 500 
>> millisecs!
>> ## LC is too fast for this :-)
>> set the tooltip delay to 0
>> ...
>> 
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>> Klaus
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Klaus Major
>> https://www.major-k.de 
>> https://www.major-k.de/bass  
>> >
>> kl...@major-k.de  > >
>> 
>> 
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>> use-livecode mailing list
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>> >
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>> preferences:
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>> > >
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Re: scripted Show tooltip not a thing?

[Craig Newman via use-livecode]

You can do this. In a button script;

on mouseenter

set the tooltip of me to random(999)

end mouseenter


Now every time you move the cursor into that button, you get a new integer when 
you hover.

Craig

> On Jan 11, 2022, at 9:38 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi David,
> 
>> Am 11.01.2022 um 15:29 schrieb David Glasgow via use-livecode 
>> :
>> 
>> Hi folks
>> 
>> I have an app in which tooltips are generally off.  I also have a button 
>> menu which allows the selection of equality/inequelity.  Users are non 
>> technical, and on selection (i.e. not the usual hover) I wanted to pop up a 
>> brief tooltip describing the selected item in ordinary language 
>> (irrespective of whether tooltips are globally on or off):
>> 
>> on menuPick pChosenItem
>>  set the label of me to pChosenitem
>>  switch
>> case pChosenItem = "="
>>set the tooltip of me to "Equals"
>>break
>> case pChosenItem = "≤"
>>set the tooltip of me to  “Is at least"
>>break
>> case pChosenItem = "≅"
>>set the tooltip of me to “Is approximately"
>>break
>>  end switch
>>  set the tooltipdelay to 500
>>  show the tooltip of me
>>  set the tooltip delay to 0
>> end menuPick
>> 
>> It seems  show the tooltip of me isn’t a thing.  I appreciate that I could 
>> show and hide an ordinary field, but I wondered if I have overlooked a 
>> suitable message and/or syntax that will enable what I want. 
>> 
>> 
>> Best Wishes,
>> 
>> David Glasgow
> 
> well, we cannot explicitely show a tooltip by script.
> So "show the tooltup of me" will not work if it doesn't throw an error.
> 
> Problem in your script:
> ...
>  set the tooltipdelay to 500
>  ## from this point the tooltip will appear in 500 millisecs
>  ## show the tooltip of me
> 
>  ## but this will disable the tooltip again much EARLIER than the 500 
> millisecs!
>  ## LC is too fast for this :-)
>  set the tooltip delay to 0
> ...
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de 
> https://www.major-k.de/bass 
> kl...@major-k.de 
> 
> 
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> preferences:
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Re: scripted Show tooltip not a thing?

[Klaus major-k via use-livecode]

Hi David,

> Am 11.01.2022 um 15:38 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> Hi David,
> 
>> Am 11.01.2022 um 15:29 schrieb David Glasgow via use-livecode 
>> :
>> 
>> Hi folks
>> 
>> I have an app in which tooltips are generally off.  I also have a button 
>> menu which allows the selection of equality/inequelity.  Users are non 
>> technical, and on selection (i.e. not the usual hover) I wanted to pop up a 
>> brief tooltip describing the selected item in ordinary language 
>> (irrespective of whether tooltips are globally on or off):
>> 
>> on menuPick pChosenItem
>>  set the label of me to pChosenitem
>>  switch
>> case pChosenItem = "="
>>set the tooltip of me to "Equals"
>>break
>> case pChosenItem = "≤"
>>set the tooltip of me to  “Is at least"
>>break
>> case pChosenItem = "≅"
>>set the tooltip of me to “Is approximately"
>>break
>>  end switch
>>  set the tooltipdelay to 500
>>  show the tooltip of me
>>  set the tooltipdelay to 0
>> end menuPick

maybe something like this will work for you:
..
 set the tooltipdelay to 1
 ## to show the tooltip almost immediately
 ## give th user time to read the tooltip
 send "set the tooltipdelay to 0" to me in 2 secs
...

Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
kl...@major-k.de


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Re: scripted Show tooltip not a thing?

[Klaus major-k via use-livecode]

Hi David,

> Am 11.01.2022 um 15:29 schrieb David Glasgow via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> Hi folks
> 
> I have an app in which tooltips are generally off.  I also have a button menu 
> which allows the selection of equality/inequelity.  Users are non technical, 
> and on selection (i.e. not the usual hover) I wanted to pop up a brief 
> tooltip describing the selected item in ordinary language (irrespective of 
> whether tooltips are globally on or off):
> 
> on menuPick pChosenItem
>   set the label of me to pChosenitem
>   switch
>  case pChosenItem = "="
> set the tooltip of me to "Equals"
> break
>  case pChosenItem = "≤"
> set the tooltip of me to  “Is at least"
> break
>  case pChosenItem = "≅"
> set the tooltip of me to “Is approximately"
> break
>   end switch
>   set the tooltipdelay to 500
>   show the tooltip of me
>   set the tooltip delay to 0
> end menuPick
> 
> It seems  show the tooltip of me isn’t a thing.  I appreciate that I could 
> show and hide an ordinary field, but I wondered if I have overlooked a 
> suitable message and/or syntax that will enable what I want. 
> 
> 
> Best Wishes,
> 
> David Glasgow

well, we cannot explicitely show a tooltip by script.
So "show the tooltup of me" will not work if it doesn't throw an error.

Problem in your script:
...
  set the tooltipdelay to 500
  ## from this point the tooltip will appear in 500 millisecs
  ## show the tooltip of me

  ## but this will disable the tooltip again much EARLIER than the 500 
millisecs!
  ## LC is too fast for this :-)
  set the tooltip delay to 0
...


Best

Klaus



--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
kl...@major-k.de


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scripted Show tooltip not a thing?

[David Glasgow via use-livecode]

Hi folks

I have an app in which tooltips are generally off.  I also have a button menu 
which allows the selection of equality/inequelity.  Users are non technical, 
and on selection (i.e. not the usual hover) I wanted to pop up a brief tooltip 
describing the selected item in ordinary language (irrespective of whether 
tooltips are globally on or off):

on menuPick pChosenItem
   set the label of me to pChosenitem
   switch
  case pChosenItem = "="
 set the tooltip of me to "Equals"
 break
  case pChosenItem = "≤"
 set the tooltip of me to  “Is at least"
 break
  case pChosenItem = "≅"
 set the tooltip of me to “Is approximately"
 break
   end switch
   set the tooltipdelay to 500
   show the tooltip of me
   set the tooltip delay to 0
end menuPick

It seems  show the tooltip of me isn’t a thing.  I appreciate that I could show 
and hide an ordinary field, but I wondered if I have overlooked a suitable 
message and/or syntax that will enable what I want. 


Best Wishes,

David Glasgow
Honorary Professor, Nottingham Trent University (SOCAMRU)
Consultant Forensic & Clinical Psychologist
Carlton Glasgow Partnership
Director, Child & Family Training, York

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