Re: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Mark Wieder wrote:
> On 1/7/19 9:38 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>> ...an interesting thing about file access is a lot of lstat and
>> open calls apparently looking for, and not finding, the App
>> Overview stack file:
>>
>> 
lstat("/home/rg/.runrev/components/livecodeindy-9.0.2.x86_64/revapplicationoverview.rev", 


>> 0x7ffc8d185800) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
>> 
open("/home/rg/.runrev/components/livecodeindy-9.0.2.x86_64/revapplicationoverview.rev", 


>> O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
...
> Even more interesting IMO is all the attempts to access
> revapplicationoverview.mc

Thanks - I've added a note on that detail in my report:

https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21782

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?

[JJS via use-livecode]

Correct.

Op 8-1-2019 om 00:09 schreef Richard Gaskin via use-livecode:

JJS wrote:
> I added .rev .livescript and livecode.exe to Windows Defender and have
> not had an slow issue since and keeping fingers crossed.

That's very valuable, thanks. So just to confirm, you did not need to 
turn off Real Time Protection, just exclude two file types and one EXE?




___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 1/7/19 9:38 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
At a quick skim I see evidence of a lot of timers (which we would expect 
given the SE's features), but an interesting thing about file access is 
a lot of lstat and open calls apparently looking for, and not finding, 
the App Overview stack file:


lstat("/home/rg/.runrev/components/livecodeindy-9.0.2.x86_64/revapplicationoverview.rev", 
0x7ffc8d185800) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
open("/home/rg/.runrev/components/livecodeindy-9.0.2.x86_64/revapplicationoverview.rev", 
O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)


That much seems a bug, and I'll add notes to about that to the bug 
report. Since it isn't finding the file it can't write to it, and 
without writes I doubt it's the thing people are seeing when they turn 
RTP on and off.  But worth looking into for the sake of tidiness.


Even more interesting IMO is all the attempts to access 
revapplicationoverview.mc


Not only can I not think of a valid reason for that, I can't grep a 
reference to revapplicationoverview anywhere in the source except for a 
couple of custom properties in field list of stack revPluginEditor.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?

[AndyP via use-livecode]

This 'thrashing about' of messages may also explain why the situation (speed)
is impacted when the project browser and message  box are open?



-
Andy Piddock 


My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. 

TinyIDE  a Free alternative minimalist IDE Plugin for LiveCode 


Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk  

PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / 
finder.
http://www.pointandsee.co.uk  - made with LiveCode
--
Sent from: 
http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

AndyP wrote:

> This 'thrashing about' of messages may also explain why the situation
> (speed) is impacted when the project browser and message  box are
> open?

Components that need frequent updates to reflect current state can 
indeed be tricky. You may find this report interesting, esp. Comment #3:

https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13585

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?

[Monte Goulding via use-livecode]

> On 9 Jan 2019, at 6:56 am, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> > Even more interesting IMO is all the attempts to access
> > revapplicationoverview.mc
> 
> Thanks - I've added a note on that detail in my report:
> 
> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21782 
> 
This would be the engine trying lots of paths when trying to resolve 
revApplicationOverview. See `MCDispatch::findstackname`. Clearly it is being 
referenced somewhere and it is not in the stackFiles of home as it should be. 
Whether this is the cause or not of the issues being discussed I’m not sure. It 
could be that windows defender gets stressed when it sees an application 
stabbing around in the dark trying to find a file.

Cheers

Monte
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 1/8/19 3:36 PM, Monte Goulding via use-livecode wrote:




On 9 Jan 2019, at 6:56 am, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
 wrote:


Even more interesting IMO is all the attempts to access
revapplicationoverview.mc


Thanks - I've added a note on that detail in my report:

https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21782 


This would be the engine trying lots of paths when trying to resolve 
revApplicationOverview. See `MCDispatch::findstackname`. Clearly it is being 
referenced somewhere and it is not in the stackFiles of home as it should be. 
Whether this is the cause or not of the issues being discussed I’m not sure. It 
could be that windows defender gets stressed when it sees an application 
stabbing around in the dark trying to find a file.


Still begs the question as to why the engine is doing this. Now that 
I've sheepishly done a non-case-sensitive search for it, I see 
revApplicationOverview referenced a lot in the main backscript and I see 
that findstackname will take a stack short name as an argument and then 
try to find the stack file.


So is all that thrashing just the result of "is there is a stack..."? Or 
possibly "if the mode of stack..."? That could seriously be impacting 
the speed of lots of system messages.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: HTML entity escaping?

[Devin Asay via use-livecode]

David, I assume you mean you want to render the named entity as the proper 
glyph? The way to do that is with the htmlText property.

  set the htmlText of fld “foo” to “The book costs 30."

Devin

On Jan 8, 2019, at 6:53 AM, David Bovill via use-livecode 
mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

Is there a way / anyone have a handler to escape named html entities in
Livecode?


,,,

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Devin Asay
Director
Office of Digital Humanities
Brigham Young University

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

HTML entity escaping?

[David Bovill via use-livecode]

Is there a way / anyone have a handler to escape named html entities in
Livecode?


> ,,,
>
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Upgrading OpenSSL in 6.7.11

[Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode]

Hi David,

I've just run up against exactly this issue. It's the last six months of a 
legacy app that's going to be retired, so I'm reluctant to go through the 
whole process of validating it under LC 8.


Did you ever get a solution to this?

Many thanks,

Ben

On 14/09/2017 00:34, David Beck via use-livecode wrote:

Hello,

For one of our applications we are still running LiveCode v6.7.11, and have
come across an issue hitting an API that only supports TLS 1.2 and later.
It appears that the version of OpenSSL / revsecurity that is being
distributed with v6.7.11 does not support TLS version 1.2. Upgrading to
LiveCode v8.1.6 solves the issue, however, there are some upgrade related
"bumps" that we will need some time to work through, so it will take some
time to resolve this issue through moving to LC8.

Does anybody know how we might obtain / build a version of revsecurity that
works with 6.7.11 with the most recent version of OpenSSL?

Thank you in advance for any help!

David Beck
Rotunda Software
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Upgrading OpenSSL in 6.7.11

[Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode]

Hi David,

I've just run up against exactly this issue. It's the last six months of a 
legacy app that's going to be retired, so I'm reluctant to go through the 
whole process of validating it under LC 8.


Did you ever get a solution to this?

Many thanks,

Ben

On 14/09/2017 00:34, David Beck via use-livecode wrote:

Hello,

For one of our applications we are still running LiveCode v6.7.11, and have
come across an issue hitting an API that only supports TLS 1.2 and later.
It appears that the version of OpenSSL / revsecurity that is being
distributed with v6.7.11 does not support TLS version 1.2. Upgrading to
LiveCode v8.1.6 solves the issue, however, there are some upgrade related
"bumps" that we will need some time to work through, so it will take some
time to resolve this issue through moving to LC8.

Does anybody know how we might obtain / build a version of revsecurity that
works with 6.7.11 with the most recent version of OpenSSL?

Thank you in advance for any help!

David Beck
Rotunda Software
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x

[Simon Knight via use-livecode]

> On 7 Jan 2019, at 17:00, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Perhaps the biggest flaw I've seen with v9 is the bug report tracking: the 
> Release Notes only include a subset of all issues addressed since work began 
> on it two years ago.  My understanding from conversations with team members 
> is that v9 may well have the largest number of resolved bugs of any release, 
> an amazing feat considering the scope of new features and feature 
> refinements, including huge strides forward with many aspects of performance.

I suspect that this is a fact of life especially in small teams.  My limited 
experience is that people who write code generally hate writing paperwork as 
they want to get on and complete the next task and not create documentation 
about the last.  Not forgetting that a lot of the paperwork generated by the 
big players is just shelf ware and no use to anyone except the manager who 
demanded it.

best wishes

Simon
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?

[Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode]

Richard:

> Personally, I feel no driving need to try to take Mark
> Waddingham to school.

I have the utmost respect for Mark and his tremendous knowledge. And for 
everyone else high or low for that matter. I don't play favorites or 
tiptoe, I treat people the same. As the old saying goes, it rains on 
everyone. The laws and natural results of habits and actions good or bad 
apply to all.


Including me first and foremost; as I've indicated, matters of 
self-discipline involve the self, you can't actually force habits on 
others. But I do share and teach, to help others get better results. It 
works but it requires some discipline. Everyone can improve - you were 
asking, and I was answering, mostly about regular users. My clients 
teach me important lessons too. Learning is never a one-way street.


I seriously doubt this issue is Mark's fault (In fact, I don't think I 
mentioned any names) and in fact I'm still not 100% certain we've nailed 
it until it's verified, although it seems logical that we're close. 
Still some assumptions though, and therefore still possible to be wrong.


A little Mark would probably go a long way here! :D Then again this bug 
being in the IDE, I can understand if he is answering a higher calling.


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?

[Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode]

Brian:

> The file is saved regularly, but not at the interval that I thought.

One more hint - during symptoms, after making a new text selection with 
the mouse (as opposed to just typing on a line) there was an especially 
big delay before the field would be responsive again. To be successful 
with copy/paste I had to select, keep waiting for a second or two before 
copying, then select, wait until blinking insertion returned, then 
paste. Selecting and copying right away would fail.


Since that bug report, I've noticed that sometimes the line numbers in 
the SE will get out of sync with scrolling text and stick at a certain 
point (on Mac too, not requiring any symptoms of this bug and perhaps 
unrelated). In that condition, making a selection is what triggers the 
line numbers to refresh - maybe a significant trigger for some actions.


But during symptoms, it wasn't only slow selections - sometimes 
keystrokes were easy to mess up, but memory is growing dim. Now that we 
know the Defender fix, if the final fix still proves illusive I may need 
to unfix my computer when I get some time, maybe video it, to test 
symptoms again and make a more precise record of the editing delays and 
what triggers them.


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Bob Sneidar wrote:

>> On Jan 7, 2019, at 17:59 , Richard Gaskin wrote:
>>
>> Maybe this is one more reason to move everything to the cloud,
>> to end the tyrrany of overzealously monitored local disk I/O. :)
>>
>> I honestly don't have the quick-fix answer that will keep our
>> customers happy with disk-intensive apps.
>>
>> Sugggestions?
>
> SSD?

Alas, my tests were done on an SSD.  I haven't used platters for 
anything but backups in half a decade.


In a few years we may reach a point where the speed difference between 
disk and RAM will be so minor that it'll render half of the things they 
teach in CS101 obsolete.


But for now, the order-of-magnitude difference on writes introduced by 
Defender's RTP will likely remain a problem until Windows brings their 
AV monitoring methods in line with more advanced packages.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

It's kind of always been this way. I remember getting brand new Dells, 
installing all the software they need, joining domain etc. Last step was 
installing AV. The reason I put that last because the performance hit if I did 
it first would have doubled my deployment time. 

Bob S


> On Jan 8, 2019, at 08:08 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Bob Sneidar wrote:
> 
> >> On Jan 7, 2019, at 17:59 , Richard Gaskin wrote:
> >>
> >> Maybe this is one more reason to move everything to the cloud,
> >> to end the tyrrany of overzealously monitored local disk I/O. :)
> >>
> >> I honestly don't have the quick-fix answer that will keep our
> >> customers happy with disk-intensive apps.
> >>
> >> Sugggestions?
> >
> > SSD?
> 
> Alas, my tests were done on an SSD.  I haven't used platters for anything but 
> backups in half a decade.
> 
> In a few years we may reach a point where the speed difference between disk 
> and RAM will be so minor that it'll render half of the things they teach in 
> CS101 obsolete.
> 
> But for now, the order-of-magnitude difference on writes introduced by 
> Defender's RTP will likely remain a problem until Windows brings their AV 
> monitoring methods in line with more advanced packages.
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 1/7/19 9:38 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:

It's super-annoying to try to scroll though, and no, I haven't read 
every line (I'll leave that for more diligent souls like Mark Wieder, 
who will probably run that when he reads this ).


 OMW

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?

[Brian Milby via use-livecode]

It is mostly on change but also when SE windows get suspended.  Also when a SE 
window is closed if it has been >20s it does get saved as a precaution.  I’d 
need to dig in some more to see how frequently it is being saved while using 
the SE and trace code if warranted.

I found this much just by reviewing the code.  Next is watching the file while 
using the SE to see how often it gets updated.

Thanks,
Brian
On Jan 8, 2019, 1:25 AM -0600, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
, wrote:
> Brian Milby wrote:
> > I've looked into the pref save code and it isn't as bad as I thought.
> > The file is saved regularly, but not at the interval that I thought.
> > It does have a half second delay which should prevent too many file
> > writes (the actual save is debounced 500ms in the future, so if
> > another save request comes in then the write is delayed). I was
> > thinking that it was saving much more often.
>
> Were you able to determine why it's saved at regular intervals as
> opposed to when it changes?
>
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> 
> ambassa...@fourthworld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Upgrading OpenSSL in 6.7.11

[Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode]

(Apologies for multi-sending previous message.)  Interestingly, I find that 
the issue doesn't occur in 6.7.11 on Mac, but only when the standalone is run 
on Windows (Server 2012 R2).


The reported error is:
error:14077410:SSL routines:SSL23_GET_SERVER_HELLO:sslv3 alert 
handshake failure

Ben

On 08/01/2019 14:54, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:

Hi David,

I've just run up against exactly this issue. It's the last six months of a 
legacy app that's going to be retired, so I'm reluctant to go through the 
whole process of validating it under LC 8.


Did you ever get a solution to this?

Many thanks,

Ben

On 14/09/2017 00:34, David Beck via use-livecode wrote:

Hello,

For one of our applications we are still running LiveCode v6.7.11, and have
come across an issue hitting an API that only supports TLS 1.2 and later.
It appears that the version of OpenSSL / revsecurity that is being
distributed with v6.7.11 does not support TLS version 1.2. Upgrading to
LiveCode v8.1.6 solves the issue, however, there are some upgrade related
"bumps" that we will need some time to work through, so it will take some
time to resolve this issue through moving to LC8.

Does anybody know how we might obtain / build a version of revsecurity that
works with 6.7.11 with the most recent version of OpenSSL?

Thank you in advance for any help!

David Beck
Rotunda Software
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:

http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:

http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: windows defender issues? & other AV issues?

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

SSD?

Bob S


> On Jan 7, 2019, at 17:59 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Maybe this is one more reason to move everything to the cloud, to end the 
> tyrrany of overzealously monitored local disk I/O. :)
> 
> I honestly don't have the quick-fix answer that will keep our customers happy 
> with disk-intensive apps.
> 
> Sugggestions?
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode