Re: Livecode Licence Rules for dummies ....

[Monte Goulding]

> On 15 Nov 2015, at 11:12 pm, sa...@hrz.uni-kassel.de wrote:
> The URL  > led to the Cleverbridge website 
> > where an 
> additional VAT sum was added to the price of  $499, which was not mentioned 
> by Kevin and which I overlooked initially when accepting Kevin's proposal.
> 
> I am also informed on my personal Livecode account that a fixed VAT sum 
> (stipulated on the basis of the dollar-euro exchange rate of July 2015) will 
> be charged each year if I prolong the subscription after 2018.-

We would all rather pay no tax. I’m unsure how the VAT works but with 
Australia’s GST you can claim the full amount back on business expenses. How 
exactly did you expect Kevin to know what tax rules apply to you until you had 
entered your details at the point of sale?

Cheers

Monte

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Re: Feature Exchange - Find and Replace

[Monte Goulding]

Anything that isn't in the published roadmap and someone goes to the company 
and offers to part fund would be up for grabs.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 20 Nov 2015, at 7:18 am, William Prothero  wrote:
> 
> I guess I am, perhaps like others, trying to wrap my head around what 
> expectations are reasonable for use financed vs mother ship financed 
> improvements to livecode

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Re: [OT] For you Arduino fans

[Monte Goulding]

Some folks have wy too much time on their hands ;-)

> On 21 Nov 2015, at 7:14 am, J. Landman Gay  wrote:
> 
> Here's something you can do with your Arduino:
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
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Re: [OT] For you Arduino fans

[Monte Goulding]

> On 21 Nov 2015, at 7:25 am, J. Landman Gay  wrote:
> 
> True, but don't tell me you don't want one. ;)

Only because I could control it with mergBLE ;-)
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Re: wtf diesel?

[Monte Goulding]

> On 21 Nov 2015, at 10:38 am, Richard Gaskin  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Any word on why the server load has prolonged spikes?
> 
> Is there a user on the affected machines trying to run needlessly complicated 
> scripts?
> 
> Many years ago there was discussion here about CPU throttling on the on-rev 
> servers, as we'd expect with any shared hosting service so a single account 
> can't dominate the machine and deny use for others (I once heard someone say 
> that they felt it was a reasonable expectation that they should be able to 
> run CPU-maxing analytics programs on a shared host for 7 or 8 hours at a time 
> )>
> 
> It may be helpful to know what causes these unusual server loads.

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head here Richard. David does an admirable 
job managing the on-rev servers considering how hammered they are. FWIW I 
recently moved my domains over to an Ubuntu 14.04 LTS VPS at Linode and have 
been very happy with what they offer. Quite a bit more hands on than on-rev but 
definitely worth the setup time. SSD too which is nice ;-)

Cheers

Monte

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learning resources for kids

[Monte Goulding]

Hi Folks

My son (9) is very keen to learn LiveCode. He has been doing some pretty cool 
things in Hopscotch, Scratch and Tinker. Hopscotch in particular has great 
tutorials. I went looking in my account for the game videos and other videos 
that I thought I had from kickstarter and I can’t find them in my account. I’m 
obviously happy to be a reference for him but it would be nice if there were 
something he could follow along with that is more game focussed (I’ve hardly 
even played games let alone written them). Anyone know of any good introductory 
game tutorials?

Cheers

Monte
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Re: learning resources for kids

[Monte Goulding]

Yes, I’ve just bought Scott MacDonald’s ebook. Hopefully that will help get us 
started although it is probably not tutorially enough for Matt for an intro to 
programming in LC. I have a couple of simple games I wrote from when I was 
teaching some local kids how to program too. It would be great if there were a 
resource designed to take kids from the end of a code.org <http://code.org/> 
course.


> On 22 Nov 2015, at 8:36 am, Scott Rossi  wrote:
> 
> Maybe you guys can try looking here:
> 
> http://livecodegamedeveloper.com
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design
> 
>> On Nov 21, 2015, at 12:15 PM, Monte Goulding  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Folks
>> 
>> My son (9) is very keen to learn LiveCode. He has been doing some pretty 
>> cool things in Hopscotch, Scratch and Tinker. Hopscotch in particular has 
>> great tutorials. I went looking in my account for the game videos and other 
>> videos that I thought I had from kickstarter and I can’t find them in my 
>> account. I’m obviously happy to be a reference for him but it would be nice 
>> if there were something he could follow along with that is more game 
>> focussed (I’ve hardly even played games let alone written them). Anyone know 
>> of any good introductory game tutorials?
>> 
>> Cheers
>> 
>> Monte
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Re: learning resources for kids

[Monte Goulding]

Great Todd. I’ll check it out.

BTW I found the Game Academies and LiveCode University. They used to be in my 
account but now they are under the LiveCode > Learning Resources menu. Has 
anyone got any thoughts on LiveCode University for a 9 year old?

Cheers

Monte

> On 22 Nov 2015, at 10:28 pm, Todd Fabacher  wrote:
> 
> Hi Monte,
> 
> We are releasing our Playland Armenia Social/Game App. It contains over 16
> games, some are played individually and others are online multiplayer
> player. The team wanted to create an App in honor of the 100 year
> anniversary of Armenian Genocide. So they focused on the positive and
> create a game for the children around the world to play together. It uses
> Gamification to teach language for 5-9 years old.
> 
> It is a MASSIVE app, but it fun to play and will teach all aspects of
> programing - including web services, Unicode, Animation and much more. We
> did reuse the tetris  game from Scott and a modified Chess game we found
> online.
> 
> Richard and I will be doing a FREE and open Google Hangout webinars going
> over the app and how to code it. So your son or any educator who is
> interested is welcome.
> 
> We will be releasing the code and a full Beta version in the next 2 weeks.
> The webinars will be over the next few months. You can find info on the
> game: http://playlandarmenia.com/
> 
> We won the national Open Game Challenge and are now headed to the European
> finals next month.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Todd
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Re: learning resources for kids

[Monte Goulding]

Thanks Devin

I suspect anything that isn't game focussed won't be very exciting for him at 
the moment. Perhaps in a couple of years.

Cheers

Monte

Sent from my iPhone

> On 25 Nov 2015, at 4:00 am, Devin Asay  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Nov 22, 2015, at 12:27 PM, Monte Goulding  wrote:
>> 
>> Great Todd. I’ll check it out.
>> 
>> BTW I found the Game Academies and LiveCode University. They used to be in 
>> my account but now they are under the LiveCode > Learning Resources menu. 
>> Has anyone got any thoughts on LiveCode University for a 9 year old?
> 
> Monte,
> 
> LCU is targeted toward high school or college-aged learners (I developed it 
> for my college-level course,) but no prior programming experience is assumed. 
> I think the examples are simple enough that your son could follow most or all 
> of them. I will say that the example stacks we develop in LCU are more 
> focused on producing instructional applications than games. Overall, the 
> course is designed to give a broad overview of programming concepts and the 
> LiveCode IDE, using small assignments and projects as a means to help 
> students solidify the materials presented in the lessons.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Devin
> 
> 
> Devin Asay
> Office of Digital Humanities
> Brigham Young University
> 
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Re: learning resources for kids

[Monte Goulding]

Aha! Cyril's stuff is gold and I remember stumbling over this page once before. 
Richmond where can I find your stuff?

Sent from my iPhone

> On 25 Nov 2015, at 7:51 am, Alejandro Tejada  wrote:
> 
> Hi Monte,
> 
> 
> Monte Goulding-2 wrote
>> Has anyone got any thoughts on LiveCode University for a 9 year old?
> 
> Please, check Richmond stacks (created for young learners of his own 
> Programming Lessons for Summer School Camp) and Livecode lessons 
> by Cyril Pruszko for his classes in Eleanor Roosevelt High School:
> https://sites.google.com/a/pgcps.org/livecode/  
> 
> Alejandro
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/learning-resources-for-kids-tp4698921p4699014.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 
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Re: learning resources for kids

[Monte Goulding]

I don't think he's spoilt rotten but then again I'm biased ;-)

He doesn't have a FB account. Our kids aren't allowed to get one until they are 
13 which is FB policy.

I wanted something game focussed because code.org and the other apps he has 
been using are game focussed so I didn't want to throw him at LiveCode after 
that and say look here's this tutorial showing how to put together a point of 
sale app.

Cheers

Monte

Sent from my iPhone

> On 25 Nov 2015, at 10:24 am, Richmond  wrote:
> 
>> On 24/11/15 23:47, Monte Goulding wrote:
>> Aha! Cyril's stuff is gold and I remember stumbling over this page once 
>> before. Richmond where can I find your stuff?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> "Unfortunately" you'll need a Facebook account to get at my stuff:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/RMLCclasses/?ref=bookmarks
> 
> If your son gets going with the material that is there, he is more than 
> welcome to contact
> me for any help and/or questions he may have.
> 
> I do hope it is of some use for him (especially after what I wrote in my 
> previous message: Ha, Ha).
> 
> Richmond.
> 
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Re: learning resources for kids

[Monte Goulding]

> On 25 Nov 2015, at 7:08 pm, Richmond  wrote:
> 
> Anyway, I suggest you have a looki yoursdelf and see whether the stuff
> interests you, and more to the point, your son.

Thanks Richmond, sorry I thought he had to become part of a group or something 
but I see that it’s just a page. No problem.

One day I would love to see LiveCode listed here: https://code.org/learn/beyond 


Cheers

Monte
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Re: [OT] Seeking a contact in Perth, Australia

[Monte Goulding]

I would offer to be a contact but Tasmania -> Perth is like Turkey -> UK. 
Probably not all that helpful. Unless of course you mean Perth, Tasmania rather 
than Perth, Western Australia but given it’s just a small town with no 
University it seems unlikely ;-)

All of the Aus LiveCoders I’m aware of are of the east coast. We setup a google 
group LiveCode Downunder a while back but it didn’t really go anywhere. I think 
there’s about 20 of us in there...

> On 26 Nov 2015, at 12:03 am, Medard  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> 
> My son is (maybe) about to go at Perth, Australia, in order to follow a
> class in computer science.
> 
> There are a number of problems pending before it is a real thing ;-)
> 
> Among them, a contact in Perth!
> 
> If all goes well, it will take place in 2016, Februrary...
> 
> [By the way, I tried to make him interested in Revolution^W LiveCode,
> with no luck ;-)]
> 
> 
>(-8 Dominque
> 
> 
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Re: learning resources for kids

[Monte Goulding]

> On 26 Nov 2015, at 10:46 am, Alejandro Tejada  wrote:
> 
> Why every english speaking school is not using Livecode
> to introduce computer programming to their students?
> WHY? :-(
> [Insert here your favorite picture or video of Extreme Facepalm]

Well probably because there’s no linkes to LiveCode from pages like that one...
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ico & icons file editor on Mac

[Monte Goulding]

Hi Folks

It’s been a while since I needed to create an icon. What’s the best app on Mac 
for this at the moment?

Cheers

Monte
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Re: ico & icons file editor on Mac

[Monte Goulding]

Thanks Randy and Scott. Will look at these.

> On 26 Nov 2015, at 11:28 am, Scott Rossi  wrote:
> 
> Can't say it's the "best", but I've been using Icon Slate for a while now 
> (Mac App Store).  Definitely worth 5 bucks.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media UX/UI Design
> 
>> On Nov 25, 2015, at 4:12 PM, Monte Goulding  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Folks
>> 
>> It’s been a while since I needed to create an icon. What’s the best app on 
>> Mac for this at the moment?
>> 
>> Cheers
>> 
>> Monte
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Re: Death of the Application Browser

[Monte Goulding]

It's clearly a waste of resources to maintain two things that are intended to 
provide the same service. Do you do that in your apps?

What I don't really understand is why people aren't offering suggestions on how 
to improve the project browser so it will work for them. To my mind the simple 
solution would be to have multiple layout modes (tree, list, column) and the 
ability to detach chunks of the hierarchy into a separate window by double 
clicking or dragging. That would open up a world of possibilities for copying 
and moving objects around.

Cheers

Monte

Sent from my iPhone

> On 27 Nov 2015, at 5:36 am, Richmond  wrote:
> 
> Althought I would still like to know why it has been downgraded to a Plug-in.

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Re: Death of the Application Browser

[Monte Goulding]

> On 27 Nov 2015, at 7:02 am, Mark Wieder  wrote:
> 
> Actually, I don't see that as a downgrade at all.
> Making it a plugin allows it to be more malleable, fixable, replaceable. 
> Taking it out of the IDE hierarchy should give us more options to work on the 
> Application Browser. Since the team wants to do other things, it's up to the 
> community to fix the AB, and making it a plugin makes it easier to do so.

It would probably be better if it were no longer distributed with the IDE at 
all if you are thinking of community maintenance.
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Re: Death of the Application Browser

[Monte Goulding]

> On 27 Nov 2015, at 7:07 am, Scott Rossi  wrote:
> 
> I doubt anybody is arguing with you.  I think most agree that the Project 
> Browser is a great step toward a modern editor.  But the capabilities lacking 
> in the Project Browser have been pointed out numerous times -- see the mail 
> archives.  Perhaps a better question to ask is why these have been pointed 
> out repeatedly and not acted upon, or at least acknowledged.

I think their persistence with the project browser has actually resulted in a 
number of performance optimisations and features in the engine which we all 
benefit from image cache, object reference optimisations, snapshot at size and 
possibly others are direct results of their effort to improve the project 
browser implementation. I don’t doubt that they are keen to provide what we 
need to get the job done and will look for solutions where the existing 
implementation doesn’t work. My point is to try and avoid the “i prefer the app 
browser so leave it in” or even the “the project browser doesn’t work for this 
reason” type comments and come up with constructive options that could be added 
to the project browser to resolve the situation. If all they are hearing is a 
handful of people saying they don’t like it and want to use the application 
browser instead then can you blame them for coming up with a solution of 
putting the application browser in plugins for those users?

Cheers

Monte
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Re: Death of the Application Browser

[Monte Goulding]

> On 27 Nov 2015, at 9:24 am, Peter W A Wood  wrote:
> 
> Given Mark Waddingham’s recent view of LiveCode stacks and GPL, if the 
> Application Browser is hived off to the community anybody using it would only 
> be able to sell it under the GPL. :-)

Actually that would appear to only be the case if the edits were made using 
LiveCode Community as the IDE is MIT licensed:
https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/blob/develop/IDE%20License.txt 


Cheers

Monte
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Re: Death of the Application Browser

[Monte Goulding]

> On 27 Nov 2015, at 11:11 am, [-hh]  wrote:
> 
> I would like to have that project browser does at least the same functional
> (working) things as the application browser.

While it may seem like there are a lot of people saying this stuff there’s 
actually only a handful. The project browser appears to have all the same 
features (plus a good deal more) as the application browser. The only thing it 
doesn’t have as far as I can tell is the separate card view which I agree often 
means you can end up a little lost if you ave a complex hierarchy with a lot of 
objects deeply nested in groups. Personally I think the app browser card view 
can also get a bit hectic if there’s a lot of objects in nested groups. That’s 
why I suggested having options to drag out an object and have it be the root 
node of tree in a new window. Also perhaps a simple pulldown button so the list 
might only show the current card of the top stack, the whole top stack, open 
stacks, main stacks etc. Something like that should only take a small amount of 
time to implement but could make it much more functional with large projects.

Cheers

Monte
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Re: Death of the Application Browser

[Monte Goulding]

> On 27 Nov 2015, at 11:58 am, Peter W A Wood  wrote:
> 
> Given Mark’s earlier explanation, it is difficult to see how the IDE can be 
> MIT licensed.

I posted the link to the license file in the repo. I don’t think I can do much 
more than that to prove it ;-)

> After all, it is just a stack and if other stacks run with the Community 
> engine can only be issued under the GPL, surely the IDE can only be issued 
> under the GPL if it is run by the Community engine?

As the owners of the copyright it is within their rights to license it however 
they see fit. They have not restricted themselves from distributing stacks 
under licenses other than the GPL.

> In fact, surely anything distributed within LiveCode Community must be under 
> the GPL? 

If this were the case then they would have trouble putting the engine together 
at all as none of the libraries they use are GPL otherwise they could not 
distribute a commercial engine...
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Re: Pi fans, now we have ZERO to look forward to

[Monte Goulding]

> On 27 Nov 2015, at 12:07 pm, Mark Rauterkus  wrote:
> 
> I love our Thanksgiving Pie but this is different.
> 
> https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/raspberry-pi-zero/ 
> 
> 
> Okay, what does this mean for LiveCode?
> 
> Will LiveCode run on the new Pi Zero one day?
> 
> Man, a $5 computer. Taste good and less filling!
> 
> Would love to have some of the experts sound off on the Pi progress and
> vision.

It doesn’t look like RPi has been built since all the project files were 
changed. It probably needs Fraser to have some time to play with it but to me 
it looks like you would be able to run the most recent RPi build on it out of 
the box.

Cheers

Monte
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Re: Edinburgh Conference In August

[Monte Goulding]

> On 28 Nov 2015, at 6:19 am, Mark Wieder  wrote:
> 
>> I couldn’t see in that page a way to buy packages, or does the price shown 
>> include a hotel? Are you thinking we will take care of our own accommodation 
>> this time?
> 
> Accomodation during Festival Month can be a problem.
> OTOH, I'm delighted that we'll be there for the festival.

Sounds like fun! Unfortunately I’ll miss my sister and family as they are 
coming back from my brother-in-law’s sabbatical at Oxford only a few weeks 
earlier. Was hoping dates might line up if the conference was in Edinburgh. 
Never mind… Hoping I can make it again.
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Re: Edinburgh Conference In August

[Monte Goulding]

Oh great thanks for the invite Alex ;-)

Sent from my iPhone

> On 28 Nov 2015, at 12:11 pm, Mark Wieder  wrote:
> 
> So... we can all stay at your flat?

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Re: Death of the Application Browser

[Monte Goulding]

It really would be better of people enumerated the problems they have with the 
new IDE stacks rather than just say use them and see. We all do things 
differently and the problems you see might not be the problems I see.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 29 Nov 2015, at 9:50 pm, [-hh]  wrote:
> 
> And here in advance a tip for the handful of persons here who
> think that *everything* new is better

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Re: Gmail API and Oath 2 - How to access using LiveCode ?

[Monte Goulding]

That's right. It uses Google's objective-c sdk which covers iOS and Mac. For a 
completely cross platform solution you would want to implement it all in 
LiveCode script and use the browser widget or revBrowser for the oauth2 
authorisation. If it helps anyone I can make a generic oauth2 dialog available 
for iOS and Mac in the external but seeing as that's not very hard to do it's 
probably not worth it.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 30 Nov 2015, at 7:25 am, Mike Kerner  wrote:
> 
> Just an FYI, the mergGoogle library also works on Macs (but not other
> platforms, yet, I don't think)

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Re: How would YOU trade data within LC Android app between 2 tablets without INTERNET?

[Monte Goulding]

> On 1 Dec 2015, at 6:32 am, Ben Rubinstein  wrote:
> 
> b) Make it worth Monte's while to port the mergBLE extension to Android, then 
> use Bluetooth to connect the apps.  It works great on iOS, but unfortunately 
> is not yet available on Android.  Again, this solution would allow the apps 
> to communicate directly between devices.

There’s a strong possibility I will be getting started on mergBLE for Android 
soon. However, the project is limited to device discovery and reading the 
service data so we can implement Eddystone beacons.

Cheers

Monte
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Re: Death of the Application Browser

[Monte Goulding]

Thanks Jacque, this is a good list.
> On 1 Dec 2015, at 7:41 am, J. Landman Gay  wrote:
> 
> 1. Horizontal/column view so it is easy to drill down from stack to card to 
> object, and see their relationships to everything else. Basically I want 
> Finder column view.

Yes, I think this would be helpful too. A list view could probably also be 
implemented along with something like cover flow as an option to use instead of 
the thumbnails.

> 2. I need to see card numbers and object layer numbers.

Would it be sufficient to have something like .  instead of just 
? Perhaps there might be a way in preferences to specify an object 
descriptor to use??? This would be a fairly lightweight change I think. Trying 
to add proper columns would be much more work.

> 3. I need to see IDs for all cards and objects.

Do you need to see IDs all the time or just sometimes? What do you need them 
for? the tooltip gives you the long ID in LC 8. Would it be helpful to have a 
Copy Object Reference > Short ID … Long Name in the contextual menu? What about 
drag and drop object references to the script editor or drag an image off the 
browser and drop on a button and it sets the icon and IDs into the property 
inspector? All fairly easy fixes but you need to detail what you are using the 
ID for to see if they resolve the issue.

> 4. I need the ability to open the property inspector for an unselected object 
> for quick reference, without changing the current selection or location.

Yes! Me too. Perhaps a preference whether clicking on the flipper of a group 
selects the object and actions from the contextual menu shouldn’t select the 
object. You should need to click on the name to select the object and open the 
stack. I expect this isn’t all that tricky a change either.
> 
> I'll probably think of other things. The main problem for me is the amount of 
> scrolling necessary to locate things, the inability to see where I'm at in 
> the object hierarchy, and the way the PB forces unwanted navigation.

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Re: How would YOU trade data within LC Android app between 2 tablets without INTERNET?

[Monte Goulding]

> On 1 Dec 2015, at 1:46 pm, Simon  wrote:
> 
> Wahoo!!
> Any idea what the further costing would be to bring on the full BLE?
> I'd would be interested in a crowed sourced project.

I’ll know more once I’ve implemented what I need to do the eddystone beacons.

Cheers

Monte 
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Re: Death of the Application Browser

[Monte Goulding]

> On 1 Dec 2015, at 5:57 pm, J. Landman Gay  wrote:
> Number-name would work, though it isn't as easy to read as a column. But I'd 
> be okay with it. Not sure what you mean by "object descriptor" though.

I just meant that some folks might like "number. name" and others might like 
"name (number)" and others might like "[id] name (number)” and some way to 
specify in the preferences might be good. Even just a range of choices might 
help.

>  But IDs are imperative when I get an error message like this:
> 
>  Hint: field id 12345 of card id 2069 of stack…

Failing a proper mobile debugger some way to scroll to an object reference in 
the project browser would work for this. It probably would require a menu and a 
dialog to enter the object reference.
> 
> Left-clicking the name should change the target object that will be acted on. 
> Double-clicking a name should both change the target and additionally 
> navigate to it in the stack.

Yes, I suspect the navigate on single click is one of those cases where it 
works well for people new to the platform but for complicated apps I at least 
do a lot of work without opening the stacks I’m working on. You might change 
one thing and know it’s going to cause errors elsewhere so you change a lot of 
things before wanting to open the stack to test. Perhaps this could be a 
preference too?

> Right-clicking should present the contextual menu and leave the original 
> target intact.

This appears to be the case already. In LC 7.1 I see that when using a 
contextual menu on a control will fail and the selected row will be the target 
but in LC 8 this works fine. The problem I find with LC 8 is that you can’t 
browse to a grouped control without selecting and navigating to the group 
because the clicking the flipper does that. I suspect this is just a bug.
> 
> And a feature request: It would be nice to be able to copy or cut an object 
> from elsewhere and paste it into the current card you're looking at, without 
> needing to first change your location to go get that object.

Yes that would be nice.
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Re: Improving the LiveCode release notes

[Monte Goulding]

Hi Peter

I’m not sure if you’ve seen this report of mine or if your review of the 
release notes includes a review of server notes or is desktop only.

http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16350 


Basically I think the above could be resolved and things simplified in general 
if the installation guide is a separate file. Maybe even a separate file per 
platform.

A loong time ago I had fun with git on a rainy weekend and came up with a web 
app that was intended to be a github/bitbucket service hook. Here’s what it 
pumped out:

http://ecove.on-rev.com/mergext.com/notes.html 


Actually it’s markdown files that are pumped out and the above page is rentered 
by flatdoc http://ricostacruz.com/flatdoc/

I even registered git-v.info but I never got around to deploying it after 
realising the server resources required could blow out quite rapidly. I’ve 
still got the code though it probably needs some extra work to handle the 
multiple notes directories and multiple development branches that the repo now 
has. The basic idea was that people could see exactly which version a change 
was made in and link to the commit and bug report and also see what is upcoming 
on a release branch and on the development frontier. 

Anyway, I’m positive you know how to get the notes out of git in the same way I 
did here I just thought you might be interested to see the format and how live 
updates to the notes via a service hook could be used to let people know what’s 
on the way etc.

Cheers

Monte

> On 15 Dec 2015, at 4:46 am, Peter TB Brett  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm currently working on the LiveCode 8 release notes (in preparation for RC 
> 1!)
> 
> I'd really appreciate some feedback to help me understand how we can make the 
> LiveCode release notes more informative and helpful.
> 
> * What's good about the current LiveCode release notes?
> * How can we make them better?
> * What additional information would be helpful to include?
> * What can be removed or abbreviated to make them more concise?
> 
> For example, here are the LiveCode 8.0.0-dp-11 release notes:
> 
> http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/8_0_0/LiveCodeNotes-8_0_0_dp_11.pdf
> 
> Please reply and let me know your thoughts -- or feel free to e-mail me 
> off-list.
> 
> Peter
> 
> 
> -- 
> Dr Peter Brett 
> LiveCode Open Source Team
> 
> LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode
> 
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Re: Improving the LiveCode release notes

[Monte Goulding]

Yes, my code generates the full markdown release notes using added change notes 
files between release tags in the repo which is what I presume you are doing. 
Definitely don't want to use the commit messages. Particularly the bulk of mine 
;-)

Sent from my iPhone

> On 15 Dec 2015, at 7:58 pm, Peter TB Brett  wrote:
> 
> Our release notes aren't generated from the git log, for various reasons -- 
> often git commit log comments are not written with the end user of the 
> software as the intended reader.  And of course rewriting the git log for 
> every LiveCode 8 git commit would be perhaps too resource-intensive a task. 
> ;-)

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Re: Improving the dictionary [was: LiveCode release notes]

[Monte Goulding]

Pete they are all little markdown files in the livecode repo:

https://github.com/livecode/livecode/tree/develop/docs/notes 


You can use git to extract a list of notes added between two tagged versions:

put shell("git diff 6.7.8-rc-4 6.7.8 --diff-filter=AM --name-only — 
‘docs/notes'") into tFiles

You probably want to modify this to add stuff to a database:
https://github.com/livecode/livecode/blob/develop/builder/release_notes_builder.livecodescript


> On 17 Dec 2015, at 6:02 am, Peter Haworth  wrote:
> 
> That would certainly help.  I still believe a fully searchable database of
> the release notes would be useful though and still willing to take that
> on.  I need to be able to minimize or even eliminate the manual effort
> required to enter the release note data into the database.  I don't believe
> I can do that using the pdf versions of the release notes so if there is
> indeed an html version somewhere as mentioned recently, I'd love to get
> access to it in the hope that I can parse it programmatically and load it
> into the database.
> 
> Pete
> lcSQL Software 
> Home of lcStackBrowser  and
> SQLiteAdmin 
> 
> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 12:50 AM, Peter TB Brett 
> wrote:
> 
>> On 15/12/2015 19:26, Mark Wieder wrote:
>> 
>>> On 12/15/2015 11:09 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>>> 
>>> Most of the entries do show the initial release date in the dictionary
 but the problem is that we often can't recall what term to look up.
 
>>> 
>>> Also, bug fixes don't necessarily fall into that category and probably
>>> won't show up in the dictionary.
>>> 
>> 
>> Anything that changes the behaviour of the syntax definitely should be
>> noted in the dictionary.
>> 
>> If it doesn't change the behaviour but just, for example, improves
>> performance or fixes a crash in a pathological case, then it generally
>> shouldn't be noted in the dictionary.
>> 
>> The core dev team tries very hard to *not* change behaviour of existing
>> script syntax where it can be avoided -- because it's important not to
>> break stacks that currently work (c.f. discussion about "save" vs
>> "stackFileVersion").
>> 
>> I would like the dictionary to have a way to search its entries by "last
>> changed in", "introduced in", and "deprecated in", but it currently looks
>> like we won't have time to introduce that in 8.0.0.
>> 
>>Peter
>> 
>> --
>> Dr Peter Brett 
>> LiveCode Open Source Team
>> 
>> LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode
>> 
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Re: Player Object in HTML 5?

[Monte Goulding]

Did you expect to be able to deploy commercial HTML5 apps with community?

Sent from my iPhone

> On 19 Dec 2015, at 4:18 pm, Simon  wrote:
> 
> Ahhh shoot!
> How did I miss that?  $2K a year.
> While I'm not very bothered by HTML5 and LiveCode Indy/Business as I can use
> the Community version, I am surprised that I hadn't seen that it was coming
> out as an add-on.

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Re: Player Object in HTML 5?

[Monte Goulding]

Hmm... I know big and rich are a matter of perspective but $500 is hardly a 
massive expense. For me if it saved me more than a few hours it would be a 
false economy not to buy it.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 19 Dec 2015, at 4:40 pm, Simon  wrote:
> 
> Nope. 
> If I did a commercial HTML5 app it would have to be very big and my client
> very rich so not really a problem.

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Re: Release 8.0 DP 12

[Monte Goulding]

I haven't pulled and built the latest yet. What's the pink variables issue? 
Sounds like a good band name to me ;-)

Sent from my iPhone

> On 23 Dec 2015, at 3:18 am, Peter Haworth  wrote:
> 
> the"pink variables" issue.

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Re: Take a look back through 2015

[Monte Goulding]

Yes indeed, congratulations on a great year and I think we are all looking 
forward to a very interesting 2016. Enjoy your break!

Cheers

Monte

Sent from my iPhone

> On 21 Dec 2015, at 6:02 am, Jim Lambert  wrote:
> 
> Let me add to the litany of Livecode LTD’s amazingly accelerated pace in 2015 
> - the unprecedented number of posts by Mark Waddingham to this and the DEV 
> list.
> 
> Thank you, Mark, for your always insightful and much welcomed participation 
> here.
> 
> Jim Lambert
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Re: Release 8.0 DP 12

[Monte Goulding]

Hmm... Sounds like the widget isn't being drawn for some reason.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 23 Dec 2015, at 6:56 am, Peter Haworth  wrote:
> 
> I haven't narrowed down the cause of it yet, but the variables tab of the
> script editor window is sometimes colored pink. The bigger issue is when
> that happens, no variable names or contents are visible.

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Re: Release 8.0 dictionary

[Monte Goulding]

This is hardly a forum for theological debate Richmond.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 23 Dec 2015, at 8:01 am, Richmond  wrote:
> 
>  Off Topic Homily Follows 

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Re: shell() vs terminal re. ssh

[Monte Goulding]

I'm no bash expert but I just wanted to check the user your cgi is bing run 
under is the same as the user you are logging into to run the script from 
terminal.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 24 Dec 2015, at 7:26 am, Richard Gaskin  wrote:
> 
> I'm assuming something about the way the shell function works is preventing 
> the ssh key from being found.

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Re: shell() vs terminal re. ssh

[Monte Goulding]

You probably want to make sure the remote user is pretty restricted too. Anyone 
that has control of your web server user will have control of that account too.

Cheers

Monte

Sent from my iPhone

> On 24 Dec 2015, at 8:22 am, Richard Gaskin  wrote:
> 
> Yes, that was the problem - CGIs run as a different user.  But I have root on 
> that server so I logged in as the CGI process, generated a key pair, copied 
> the pub key to the other server, and now my CGI can handle the transfer well.

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Re: shell() vs terminal re. ssh

[Monte Goulding]

> I also completely disable password login, lock out root,

I do that too. Scary when you login as root and see thousands of failed 
attempts...

> and move SSH to a non-standard port

Hadn't thought of doing that.

Cheers

Monte
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Re: Displaying mixed text and images in iOS app

[Monte Goulding]

You could display Word, PDF (any file format the device can normally display) 
using mergDoc or PDF using mergReader. See mergext.com

Cheers

Monte

Sent from my iPhone

> On 26 Dec 2015, at 3:54 am, Richard Miller  wrote:
> 
> Should I look at displaying PDFs? If so, will this approach give the 
> appearance of being well integrated into the app without navigating outside 
> the app?

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Re: Displaying mixed text and images in iOS app

[Monte Goulding]

mergReader has more features like bookmarks and thumbnails. mergDoc is the 
standard iOS way to present a document so it's the same as what you see when 
you open a document in mail etc.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 26 Dec 2015, at 11:45 am, Richard Miller  wrote:
> 
> Is there an advantage in using one over the other? It is equally easy for me 
> to save the documents in Word or PDF format. I'm looking for the most 
> elegant, seamless method for displaying these docs in my app.

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Re: HTML5 update: why it is slow?

[Monte Goulding]

> On 7 Jan 2016, at 9:01 am, Peter TB Brett  wrote:
> 
> It remains to be seen whether I can figure out how do that. ;-)

Personally I’d rather you declare force majeure on wait for HTML5 and apply 
your considerable talents to implementing non-blocking versions of everything. 
Wait et al causes issues all over the place, is usually the least efficient way 
of doing things and the end result is almost always a poor user experience. 
Given the choice of a little bit of extra coding work implementing callbacks 
but with the side benefit that users won’t be sitting there wondering what’s 
going on and an engine that’s either 22x faster or half the size (both of which 
are critical issues for HTML5) what do you think people would choose?

For reference: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=18719 


Cheers

Monte
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Re: "fork" command?

[Monte Goulding]

Hmm… I’m not convinced we need this for FastCGI. Apache mod_fcgid will start up 
processes for you and for Nginx and other servers that don’t do that you could 
use spawn-fcgi. I have done some thinking on FastCGI after Todd asked me to 
look into the feasibility of it and was considering funding or part funding it. 
He ended up going with another platform for server side stuff so its been put 
on the back burner.

We mainly need two things for FastCGI:
 - an engine with the FastCGI accept loop as the main loop (LC Server just 
starts up and quits at the end of the code and standalones just keep looping 
until you quit).
 - to decide on how to handle things like global variable scope etc because 
you’re going to end up with multiple requests to the same environment.

After some thought and considering the new script only stack format I came to 
the conclusion that it would be better not to do the php style  On 8 Jan 2016, at 6:03 am, Richard Gaskin  wrote:
> 
> I'm just far enough into Robert Love's "Linux System Programming" that I 
> think the solution to FastCGI may be much simpler than I'd previously thought.
> 
> I think we need a new command that launches a specified process but in a way 
> that uses a call to "fork" to pass file descriptors (which include sockets 
> and other I/O info) to the child process.
> 
> In many ways it would work very similarly to the existing "open process", but 
> allow params to give the child process access to things like socket 
> connections, pipes, files, etc. the parent process has access to at the time 
> the child process is launched.
> 
> It would seem least intrusive on the code base to implement it as a new 
> command, perhaps called "fork".
> 
> That said, I have to admit the risk of Dunning-Kruger effect here:  I'm not 
> that far into the book, and my knowledge in this area is far below my 
> aspirations.
> 
> But for those of you more familiar with Linux system programming, do I 
> misunderstand the difficulty involved?
> 
> Forking seems so common in other tools, and not having it appears to be the 
> one detail standing between where we are now and having not just FastCGI, but 
> also being able to build truly excellent application servers on par with 
> Node.js and other similar systems.
> 
> LiveCode is a great language, and if we had the ability to fork we should be 
> able to build a wide range of powerful, scalable, efficient systems, breaking 
> far beyond the limitations of CGI we're limited to now.
> 
> If all we need is a new command to wrap the Linux "fork" call, after I finish 
> Love's book I may brush up on my C skills and give it a go.
> 
> But who wants to wait for that.  Is there anyone in our community who could 
> do this now?
> 
> Do I misunderstand what's needed here?
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> 
> ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
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Re: "fork" command?

[Monte Goulding]

> My understanding is that spawn-fcgi uses fork, no?

Yes. Are you looking to implement your own process manager though?
> 
> 
> > We mainly need two things for FastCGI:
> >  - an engine with the FastCGI accept loop as the main loop (LC Server
> > just starts up and quits at the end of the code and standalones just
> > keep looping until you quit).
> 
> I believe that has more to do with the nature of CGI than with LC per se.  
> That is, as a CGI any engine (Perl, Python, Ruby, LiveCode) will be born, 
> live, and die during the request.
> 
> But with FastCGI the engine is only loaded once, and instances forked with 
> requests as needed, and using fork they get the socket and other data needed 
> for the child process to handle the task.

> Some engines may use multithreading rather than multiprocessing, but the 
> difference is less of a concern on Linux than on Windows since Linux spawns 
> processes much more efficiently.
> 
> If multithreading were pursued as an alternative to multiprocessing via fork, 
> I fear a threading subsystem would be much more work to implement, no?

spawn-fcgi and mod_fcgid do essentially what you are proposing. Spawn long 
running processes when told to and manage passing the request to them in a 
balanced way if there’s more than one process.
> 
> 
> >  - to decide on how to handle things like global variable scope etc
> > because you’re going to end up with multiple requests to the same
> > environment.
> 
> How is that handled in the FastCGI version of PHP?

PHP tears down everything although you can maintain persistent db connections. 
There’s a few different ways to do FastCGI for PHP as it has it’s own process 
manager.

>  I would imagine it would be no more onerous than with threading, arguably 
> simpler since so much of the action takes places in a separate process.

I actually haven’t mentioned threading at all...
> 
> I wouldn't expect to be able to use FastCGI without modifying some of my 
> scripting habits; as with any new feature, just a few new things to learn and 
> keep track of.  Indeed, I would welcome the opportunity for it to become 
> possible to learn those things.
> 
> In that outline would "acceptRequest" be a request from Apache, or are you 
> proposing a system that replaces Apache to accept requests directly from the 
> client?

acceptRequest would be called in response to the FastCGI main loop which 
processes a requests then waits for the next one to come in. Where it comes 
from is from anything that implements the FastCGI protocol but it is a HTTP 
request if that’s what you are asking.

> 
> Once we have forking we could completely replace Apache (or NGineX or 
> Node.js) with a fully-functioning server for specific applications where the 
> efficiencies of a purpose-built system would be helpful.

Ah, ok so you wan’t MCHTTPd with child processes and maybe FastCGI but maybe 
just some custom protocol between them?
> 
> But even when running under Apache with FastCGI, fork would seem a very 
> useful thing.  It's how PHP and other engines are able to scale, and indeed 
> not having it prevents LC from being used in traffic-heavy scenarios.

I’m not saying it’s not useful, just suggesting letting something else do the 
forking might be a good idea.

> 
> 
> > Of course you could have a FastCGI engine that cleared all the
> > globals and stacks from memory between requests and loaded any
> > script only stack file but it’s not quite as much fun, you lose
> > the advantage of keeping resources in memory and as far as I can
> > tell it’s a bit more work to do that ;-)
> 
> As with other persistent systems like LC on the desktop, we should maintain 
> control over which data is purged and which data is shared.  We have globals 
> and script-locals, depending on the context we need them, and in a 
> multiprocessing environment we should have the same flexibility.
> 
> For example, one of the strong advantages of FastCGI or other persistent 
> implementation is that we don't have to create and destroy database 
> connections with every request.  That sort of information (along with config 
> data and other such things) we'd want to remain globally available to child 
> processes.  Request-specific data could be handled in script-locals, where 
> they can be managed and cleared as needed within the worker process itself, 
> without affecting truly global data managed by the parent.

I think what I was proposing covers that.

Cheers

Monte


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Re: "fork" command?

[Monte Goulding]

> On 8 Jan 2016, at 12:42 pm, Richard Gaskin  wrote:
> 
> Monte Goulding wrote:
> 
> >> My understanding is that spawn-fcgi uses fork, no?
> >
> > Yes. Are you looking to implement your own process manager though?
> 
> What constitutes "process manager" in this context?

Something that spawns processes that handle requests.
> 
> 
> >> Once we have forking we could completely replace Apache (or NGineX
> >> or Node.js) with a fully-functioning server for specific
> >> applications where the efficiencies of a purpose-built system would
> >> be helpful.
> >
> > Ah, ok so you wan’t MCHTTPd with child processes and maybe FastCGI
> > but maybe just some custom protocol between them?
> 
> Ideally, both: FastCGI for use under Apache for building Web sites, and a 
> forkable variant of MCHTTPd for building custom application servers.

OK, well these are two quite distinct requests although you could probably 
implement the FastCGI protocol in script and then use your proposed fork 
command if you wanted to load balance over child processes. I was thinking more 
along the lines of using libfcgi directly in the engine. It’s worth noting that 
FastCGI doesn’t require fork (http://www.fastcgi.com/drupal/node/6?q=node/22#S3 
<http://www.fastcgi.com/drupal/node/6?q=node/22#S3>) so if you are keen to 
implement FastCGI in script you could try doing that now. If fork is 
implemented then it should be easy to add to your implementation.
> 
> 
> >> But even when running under Apache with FastCGI, fork would seem
> >> a very useful thing.  It's how PHP and other engines are able to
> >> scale, and indeed not having it prevents LC from being used in
> >> traffic-heavy scenarios.
> >
> > I’m not saying it’s not useful, just suggesting letting something
> > else do the forking might be a good idea.
> 
> I'm not particular how it's done; I'm just looking for options to make 
> scalable services with LC.  What would that "something else" be?

I thought I’d covered that. spawn-fcgi, mod_fcgid or some equivalent.

Cheers

Monte
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Re: HTML5 update: why it is slow?

[Monte Goulding]

I like it!

Sent from my iPhone

> On 8 Jan 2016, at 8:52 PM, Mark Waddingham  wrote:
> 
> on processThing
>  load url "..." with "processThing2"
> end processThing
> 
> on processThing2 pUrlData
>  revb_query_async("processThing3", ..., "SELECT * FROM x WHERE y = %1", 
> "tInput")
> end processThing2
> 
> on processThing3 pQueryData
>  doThingWithQueryResult line 1 of pQueryData
> end processThing3

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Re: "fork" command?

[Monte Goulding]

> On 9 Jan 2016, at 6:21 am, Richard Gaskin  wrote:
> 
> If not via forking by what means can we handle concurrency?

For Apache mod_fcgid will start multiple processes for you. As will spawn-fcgi 
if you aren’t running a web server that will do it for you.

Cheers

Monte
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Re: HTML5 update: why it is slow?

[Monte Goulding]

> On 9 Jan 2016, at 2:20 am, Trevor DeVore  wrote:
> 
>  start asynchronous block "processThing" with error callback

Background threads then. A while back we were discussing threading 
(http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=19569&hilit=+background&sid=b5e636e53ac539017fb945ef9529d824
 
)
 and I proposed:

> How about there's two standard queues (foreground, background) with the 
> ability to create more as required. A queue would have a thread and it's own 
> pending messages with engine messages going to the foreground queue.
> 
> Maybe:
> 
> create queue 
> dispatch  to  [with param1… n] [[in 
> {foreground|background|}] with message ]
> delete queue 
> 
> A queue might have it's own instance of the handlers to message but perhaps 
> we would need a sort of common script local which would be accessible from 
> all threads and a regular script local which isn't. In most cases there would 
> be no need to create a named queue but it might be helpful in some cases.

However, I don’t think background threads will actually resolve the issue at 
hand because we still have the blocking commands and waits but they are just on 
a different thread.

One thing that might work to avoid having multiple callbacks would be 
completion handler style blocks. This would be particularly helpful if their 
variable scope included the locals in the parent handler. This would also give 
us the choice of declaring a callback either inside or outside the current 
handler.

Using Mark’s example:

on processThing
 load url "..." with block pResultCode, pData, pError
   ---
 end block
end processThing

— OR

on processThing
 load url "..." with processThing2
end processThing

block processThing2 pResultCode, pData, pError
 --
end processThing2

Whether it would be feasible to mix in the queue idea with blocks for running 
scripts asynchronously I’m not sure but it’s probably a neater idea than my 
dispatch butchery. We would just need something like:

do processThing2 in background with tResultCode, tData, tError

Cheers

Monte 
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Re: "fork" command?

[Monte Goulding]

> On 9 Jan 2016, at 7:33 am, Richard Gaskin  wrote:
> 
> Now I'm super-confused: if we already have everything we need for FastCGI 
> under Apache, what's all the fuss about?

Isn’t it you making the fuss ;-)

We don’t actually have everything. Someone either needs to implement the 
FastCGI protocol in script or create an engine that uses libfcgi to give us a 
fast cgi main loop.

Cheers

Monte
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Re: "fork" command?

[Monte Goulding]

> On 9 Jan 2016, at 8:24 am, Richard Gaskin  wrote:
> 
> I'm fine with writing some code so the main process hands off tasks to 
> workers.  The issue I've run into is that I've found no way to hand the 
> socket connection to the worker.

This is unnecessary. The basic idea with FastCGI is you have a process sitting 
there that is waiting for a request, handles the request and goes back to 
waiting for the next one. mod_fcgid, spawn_fcgi and I’m sure other things take 
this a step further by farming out the requests over multiple processes. Often 
the processes will have a life of say 500 requests where they will be killed 
and replaced to protect against memory leaks etc. I’m sure there’s ways to 
dynamically start up more processes depending on server load too… Mind you it’s 
just as easy to spin up a whole new instance of your VPS these days… maybe in a 
different location closer to your customers.

Cheers

Monte
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Re: "fork" command?

[Monte Goulding]

> On 9 Jan 2016, at 9:35 am, Richard Gaskin  wrote:
> 
> Monte Goulding wrote:
> >> On 9 Jan 2016, at 8:24 am, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> >>
> >> I'm fine with writing some code so the main process hands off tasks
> >> to workers.  The issue I've run into is that I've found no way to
> >> hand the socket connection to the worker.
> >
> > This is unnecessary.
> 
> It might seems so because I'm interleaving discussion of two different 
> desires: FastCGI and scalable socket servers.   If this isn't needed for 
> FastCGI so much the better, but if one were to make a sort of Node.lc I would 
> imagine they'd need to hand off socket connections to workers, no?

Or you could just act as an intermediary accepting connections from whatever is 
making the request and then routing the incoming data to the appropriate child 
process.
> 
> > The basic idea with FastCGI is you have a process sitting there that
> > is waiting for a request, handles the request and goes back to
> > waiting for the next one. mod_fcgid, spawn_fcgi and I’m sure other
> > things take this a step further by farming out the requests over
> > multiple processes. Often the processes will have a life of say 500
> > requests where they will be killed and replaced to protect against
> > memory leaks etc.
> 
> Sounds easy.  Why didn't Todd just do that back when he was exploring ways to 
> use FastCGI with LC?

We didn’t get that far
> 
> As or my earlier fixation on fork(), it stems from an older discussion of 
> these issues here with Andre:
> 
>   As it is, FastCGI is worse than CGI for LC because with CGI we
>   can answer more than one user at the same time by spawning new
>   processes. With FastCGI, while the request was being processed,
>   no other request would be answered. Thats not a FastCGI limitation,
>   the protocol is way smarter than CGI you receive all requests on
>   the same port and you're supposed to fork(). Since we have nothing
>   like forking on LC, we're dead on that front.
> <http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.ide.revolution.user/207985>

We are going around in circles here a bit. Check the docs for mod_fcgid where 
there are settings to control the number of processes and spawn rate 
https://httpd.apache.org/mod_fcgid/mod/mod_fcgid.html 
<https://httpd.apache.org/mod_fcgid/mod/mod_fcgid.html>

The nuts of it is that mod_fcgid will start a new process if it has permission 
to and there’s a request but no idle processes.

Cheers

Monte

> 
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> 
> ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
> 
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Re: "fork" command?

[Monte Goulding]

Isn't that when you deploy your app on EC2 instances with Elasitc Load Balancer 
and all your static content served by CloudFront from S3?

Sent from my iPhone

> On 9 Jan 2016, at 11:45 AM, Richard Gaskin  wrote:
> 
> I've used that and it seems to work well enough, but my concern is that if 
> scaled large enough it may be even better to not have a single instance 
> handling all connections.

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Re: "fork" command?

[Monte Goulding]

It was just an example. There's obviously more than one way to scale.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 9 Jan 2016, at 12:27 PM, Richard Gaskin  wrote:
> 
> If Amazon was the only way to run web sites that assumption would be correct.

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Re: Figuring out if something is on the current screen, or getting the current screen rect

[Monte Goulding]

> On 10 Jan 2016, at 10:55 am, Dr. Hawkins  wrote:
> 
> As I look through screenLoc, screenRect(s), etc., I'm not seeing *any* way
> to figure out which screen an object is on, short of manually comparing
> elements of its rect to the various bits of screensRects.

put the screen of this stack into theScreen
put line theScreen of the screenRects into theStackScreenRect

>From my memory of following the repo feed the screen of stack was undocumented 
>until recently when Trevor documented it which probably means it is only 
>documented in LC 8 so not sure what version it was introduced but it stands to 
>reason it may have been introduced when the screenRects was...

Cheers

Monte
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Re: Figuring out if something is on the current screen, or getting the current screen rect

[Monte Goulding]

We get Split View for free if we implement fullscreen. I was going to do it for 
Hacktoberfest but it was interesting working out the syntax and how it 
interacts with the current fullscreen property and decorations so I went for 
something simpler instead.

Cheers

Monte

Sent from my iPhone

> On 10 Jan 2016, at 5:21 PM, [-hh]  wrote:
> 
> It's really hard to say how all the advices to this question apply to the new 
> feature of "SplitView" of OSX 10.11 (https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT204948)

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Re: HTML5 update: why it is slow?

[Monte Goulding]

What if the result after end block was a block Id? A bit like send in time.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 12 Jan 2016, at 5:27 AM, Trevor DeVore  wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 3:56 PM, Monte Goulding  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> One thing that might work to avoid having multiple callbacks would be
>> completion handler style blocks. This would be particularly helpful if
>> their variable scope included the locals in the parent handler. This would
>> also give us the choice of declaring a callback either inside or outside
>> the current handler.
>> 
>> Using Mark’s example:
>> 
>> on processThing
>> load url "..." with block pResultCode, pData, pError
>>   ---
>> end block
>> end processThing
>> 
>> — OR
>> 
>> on processThing
>> load url "..." with processThing2
>> end processThing
>> 
>> block processThing2 pResultCode, pData, pError
>> --
>> end processThing2
> 
> 
> Monte,
> 
> I don't see how you would cancel a running operating with the block
> example. With your queue idea then you can delete the queue to effectively
> cancel it.
> 
> -- 
> Trevor DeVore
> ScreenSteps
> www.screensteps.com-www.clarify-it.com
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Re: iOS Safari View Controller

[Monte Goulding]

Looks like a pretty simple external to write

> On 12 Jan 2016, at 9:13 AM, hlowe  wrote:
> 
> Any plans to add LC support for iOS Safari View Controller? Looks like a very
> simple API with a lot of power that eliminates the need to create and manage
> browsers within an iOS app. 
> 
> https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/SafariServices/Reference/SFSafariViewController_Ref/
> 
> https://www.macstories.net/stories/ios-9-and-safari-view-controller-the-future-of-web-views/
> 
> Henry
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/iOS-Safari-View-Controller-tp4700085.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 
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Re: iOS Safari View Controller

[Monte Goulding]

I wasn't considering adding it to the engine. I don't think I actually said 
trivial either. I just said it would be a fairly simple external to write. I've 
written lots of externals that present view controllers though so "simple" is 
probably just a function of relevant experience with the required hair pulling 
already done.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 19 Jan 2016, at 8:28 PM, Peter TB Brett  wrote:
> 
> Trivial?  Oh, excellent!  I am looking forward to reading the patches. You 
> can easily submit them here: https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pulls

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Re: Multi-platform development.

[Monte Goulding]

> On 22 Jan 2016, at 12:07 AM, Roger Eller  wrote:
> 
> However, to people with absolutely no background in programming with other
> languages, it makes perfect sense.  Rather than ruin such a wonderful boost
> in learning and productivity, I would rather have a new editor that brings
> all of the object scripts together into one editing field, yet makes it
> clear to which object the block of code belongs.

One of the features I enjoy in Xcode is a split screen view with the second 
script either automatically switching to a closely related view (think header 
file or super class etc) or to any manually chosen script. Something like that 
would be nice. In certain circumstances it is particularly helpful. It requires 
a large screen though… 

Cheers

Monte
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Re: [BUG] write to file

[Monte Goulding]

> On 27 Jan 2016, at 3:57 PM, Mark Wieder  wrote:
> 
> Heh. My brother lives in San Diego, so I figured out a 15-minute walk from 
> his house to the San Diego Trolley, so I could take the train to the 2013 LC 
> conference at the hotel. The train stopped across the street from the hotel. 
> I was proud of myself for having figured out the public transportation 
> connections, arrived on time the first day for registration, and announced "I 
> got here on the Trolley".
> 
> Blank stares.
> 
> Jo informed me that I had just announced that I had arrived via a shopping 
> cart.

I’m pretty sure 2013 was in Edinburgh so that was one heck of a shopping cart 
;-)

Cheers

Monte
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Re: Getting the long name(or ID) of a control

[Monte Goulding]

Yes menu is a keyword. The rest is just what the parser can and can’t cope with.

> On 27 Jan 2016, at 4:04 PM, Ralph DiMola  wrote:
> 
> Riddle me this Batman:
> 
> I have 2 controls named "F1"(field) and "menu"(button) both in a group named
> G1
> 
> Why does this work...
> put "F1" into somevar
> put the long name of control somevar into someothervar
> 
> But this does not work...
> put "F1 of group G1" into somevar
> put the long name of control somevar into someothervar
> 
> This works
> put "F1 of group G1" into somevar
> put the long name of ("control"&&somevar) into someothervar
> 
> This also works
> put "F1" into somevar
> put the long name of ("control"&&somevar) into someothervar
> 
> But this does not
> put "menu of group G1" into somevar
> put the long name of ("control"&&somevar) into someothervar
> 
> But this does
> put quote&"menu""e&&"of group G1" into somevar
> put the long name of ("control"&&somevar) into someothervar
> 
> And this works
> put "menu" into somevar
> put the long name of control somevar into someothervar
> 
> Menu seems to be a keyword or something. What am I missing? Should there
> always be quotes around control names? (banging head against wall)
> 
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
> 
> 
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Re: clipboard access on mobile (iOS)

[Monte Goulding]

I think you need an external... Not sure if Fraser implemented mobile 
clipboards during his recent work on it though.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 3 Feb 2016, at 5:49 AM, Ben Rubinstein  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Before I give up; is there anyway to programmatically set the clipboard on 
> iOS? (Extra points for general mobile solution, but right now my need is on 
> iOS.)
> 
> At this point I'd accept filthy hacks (it's an internal tool). I want to be 
> able to set the clipboard to some text, and can't find a way. Is there one?
> 
> TIA,
> 
> Ben
> 
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Re: access user's videos on iOS

[Monte Goulding]

Take a look at mergMP

Sent from my iPhone

> On 4 Feb 2016, at 1:38 AM, Ben Rubinstein  wrote:
> 
> We an use mobilePickMedia to access the user's audio library, and then play a 
> selected audio file.
> 
> Is there any mechanism to access the user's video library, on iOS (in 
> particular) or Android?
> 
> TIA
> 
> Ben
> 
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Re: calling Livecode from other languages

[Monte Goulding]

> On 5 Feb 2016, at 4:02 PM, Matt Maier  wrote:
> 
> Can I call Livecode from other languages?
> 
> I found this, which if I'm following it is a proof of concept that you can
> install livecode server, then tell it to turn on from the shell, then have
> it run scripts and return the output. That doesn't seem like quite the same
> thing, but maybe it's close enough?
> https://livecode.com/a-livecode-shell/
> 
> Is there a way to write a Python file (or whatever) that reaches out to
> Livecode, uses its text processing, or maybe hands it a livecode script,
> then returns the result to be used by the Python file?

Yes you can write a command line app in LiveCode and read from STDIN and write 
to STDOUT then use whatever method there is in your other language to open a 
process with the -ui option.

Cheers

Monte


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Re: calling Livecode from other languages

[Monte Goulding]

> On 5 Feb 2016, at 5:20 PM, Matt Maier  wrote:
> 
> So there isn't any special standalone option to compile a *.livecode file
> into a command line app like *.exe. I just compile a standalone for the
> appropriate system, somehow get rid of the GUI, and tell it how to
> read/write STDIN/STDOUT?
> 
> Is that as simple as compiling a script-only stack into a standalone, or
> maybe setting the visible of the mainstack to false?

The way to get rid of the GUI is use the -ui command line option. It would be 
nice if command line app were an option in standalone settings and we didn’t 
need to use -ui. As script only stacks don’t retain custom properties between 
sessions and the standalone settings are saved as custom properties I expect it 
would get a bit tedious to use a script only stack as the standalone 
mainstack…. not that I’ve tested to see if it works. The main annoyance other 
than -ui is extracting the binary from a mac app bundle but you can script that.
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Re: Release 8.0 DP 14

[Monte Goulding]

> On 5 Feb 2016, at 12:49 AM, Ali Lloyd  wrote:
> 
> The selected object is now indicated in the project browser by a dotted
> line.

I like this new feature Ali both on the project browser and the selected 
object. Now that there’s a dashed line though I can’t help wondering if the 
selection handles and dashed lines could be drawn above all other layers so 
that if you have selected an object that is partly obscured you can see the 
obscured outline and grab its handle. I’m not sure how that would work with 
multiple selection though… I haven’t looked at the code to see whether it is 
feasible at all...
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Re: Release 8.0 DP 14

[Monte Goulding]

Great stuff Ali!

Sent from my iPhone

> On 5 Feb 2016, at 6:51 PM, Ali Lloyd  wrote:
> 
> Funny you should say that, as I started working on that very thing
> yesterday.

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Re: calling Livecode from other languages

[Monte Goulding]

That all sounds right. Another method is to do everything in the startup 
handler then quit at the end. Startup happens before the window is created.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 6 Feb 2016, at 7:23 AM, Matt Maier  wrote:
> 
> Please correct me if any of the following is wrong.
> 
> So in general we can run a standalone executable from the command line. It
> will fire up in whatever way it knows how. Normally that means the GUI will
> appear and the program will read/write visually. But if the code knows to
> listen on STDIN and respond on STDOUT (or more accurately redirect them?),
> then all visible elements can be hidden* and just the command line can be
> used to interact with the standalone.
> 
> * One way is to pass -ui as confirmed by a couple discussions on using
> Livecode from the command line, but I can't find -ui in google searches.
> Another way is to set the visible of the stack to false. Another way is to
> set the location of the stack to somewhere off screen.
> 
>> On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 9:32 AM, Mark Wieder  wrote:
>> 
>> On 02/04/2016 10:28 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:
>> 
>> The way to get rid of the GUI is use the -ui command line option.
>> 
>> Alternately, what I do is hide the stack in the startup handler. Or just
>> move it to an offscreen location. That way you don't have to deal with any
>> special command line options.
>> 
>> --
>> Mark Wieder
>> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
>> 
>> 
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Re: calling Livecode from other languages

[Monte Goulding]

Good to know, thanks Ali!

Sent from my iPhone

> On 5 Feb 2016, at 7:00 PM, Ali Lloyd  wrote:
> 
> When you deploy a script-only stack as a standalone it is re-saved as a
> normal stack. Not doing so at the moment results in the standalone crashing
> on startup.

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Re: Release 8.0 DP 14

[Monte Goulding]

That may be easier said than done considering as far as I can tell from 
following progress at the moment there's no IDE only team. Instead there 
appears to be variable degrees of input between the engine and the IDE from the 
whole team. While it's relatively easy to do what you are suggesting for IDE 
only if you are jumping between LiveCode and C++ IDEs it might be a significant 
hit to productivity. It might be easier to designate platform specialists on 
the team and ensure the platform specialists spend a solid chunk of the week on 
the IDE.

The other side of this issue of course is that OS X can test 4 out of 6 
platforms while Windows and Linux can test 3.

Cheers

Monte

Sent from my iPhone

> On 6 Feb 2016, at 3:38 AM, Richard Gaskin  wrote:
> 
> IMNSHO I believe it would be helpful for the LC IDE team to adopt a workflow 
> in which one full day each week is spent entirely in a platform other than 
> the one they personally prefer.  So for an OS X fan that would mean three 
> days of the week with the Mac they love, but one full day immersed in Windows 
> and another full day immersed in Linux.

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[ANN] mergExt releases for iOS 9.2

[Monte Goulding]

Hi LiveCoders

I have just uploaded new releases of my externals to support iOS 9.2 in 
addition to some minor bug fixing to mergMK animations of drag and drop custom 
image annotation pins.

See more at http://mergext.com

Cheers

Monte
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Re: [ANN] mergExt releases for iOS 9.2

[Monte Goulding]

I'll try and add it to my deployment script before the next rebuild for an SDK. 
I'm guessing you want the option of either one big blob or just the individual 
files. The version numbers are a bit tricker given that at present that is the 
only place a version number appears.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 11 Feb 2016, at 1:07 AM, Mike Kerner  wrote:
> 
> For folks who buy the whole kit-and-kaboodle, a monolithic download with
> the current versions of everything would be nice.

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Re: [ANN] mergExt releases for iOS 9.2

[Monte Goulding]

> On 11 Feb 2016, at 9:26 PM, Ben Rubinstein  wrote:
> 
> N -1!
> 
> On 10/02/2016 15:41, Mike Kerner wrote:
>> The other thing that would be nice would be to maybe have the new versions
>> not be marked with the version number.  I realize that can be dangerous,
>> but for every app, I have to go into Copy Files for every external and
>> point to the new one.  When I forget (especially if I haven't done a new
>> build in a while), that means at least one "whoops" build.
> 
> I strongly disagree. I'd much rather have control and know exactly which 
> version I'm using with each application. Admittedly in this case the changes 
> may be mostly invisible tweaks to accomodate iOS differences, but stuff 
> always needs testing, and there can easily be unexpected effects.
> 
> I'd much rather have to do a small amount of deliberate work upfront when I 
> want to switch to a new version, than have to spend more time diagnosing 
> mysterious behaviour when I did it without meaning to. That's especially 
> going to happen to an app where I haven't done a new build in a while.
> 
> My feature request, on the contrary, would be for for Monte to add a standard 
> "mergVersion" function to every external in the suite, so that we can always 
> verify exactly what we've got (and so that app error reports, for example, 
> can include this information by default).
> 
> My AUS$ 0.02,

At this stage what I’m considering is an additional large archive containing 
all externals so you can still download individual files. At the moment I scp a 
large archive over to my server and run a script on it to deploy everything 
into the right spot. It shouldn’t be overly complicated to extract each of the 
external archives and then archive the lot at the end of that script.

A version function is probably feasible (I need to be able to automate changing 
the version number from by external builder stack. It’s probably not something 
I’ll get to in the very short term though.

Cheers

Monte
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Re: create field suddenly not a good chunk

[Monte Goulding]

> On 16 Feb 2016, at 3:35 PM, Matt Maier  wrote:
> 
> As far as I know I didn't make any changes that would explain this.
> 
> All of a sudden this line: "create field stack "HowstrBeta"  is giving me
> this error "(Chunk: source is not a container), char 1"
> 
> After some experimentation and googling I discovered that it would work
> again if I changed that line to this: "create field (the long ID of stack
> "HowstrBeta").
> 
> BTW, it was the same error for two other areas which created graphics
> instead of fields.
> 
> Any ideas why Livecode would happily take "create field stack "Whatever""
> for many months and then suddenly demand it be phrased differently?

It probably shouldn’t have parsed `create field stack “Whatever”` ever. I’m not 
sure what you are intending myself.
Do you want a field named `stack “Whatever”` or do you want a field created on 
stack “Whatever”?

For the former then you probably want:
create field “stack” && quote & “Whatever” & quote

For the latter then you probably want:
set the defaultStack to “Whatever”
create field “MyField"

or

create field “MyField” in group “somegroup” of stack “Whatever"

Cheers

Monte
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Re: create field suddenly not a good chunk

[Monte Goulding]

> On 16 Feb 2016, at 3:56 PM, Matt Maier  wrote:
> 
> Weird that it would parse for so long and then suddenly stop parsing, but
> then accept a form that it looks like still shouldn't parse.

On a related note it seems odd to me that you can create an object in a group 
but you can’t specify a card or a stack where the current card might be used. I 
know there’s been cases where I’ve created groups just to simplify the creation 
of objects on the stacks that I wanted them on. I think that’s an unnecessary 
limitation so if I get a chance I might look at what it would take to fix.

Cheers

Monte
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Re: create field suddenly not a good chunk

[Monte Goulding]

> On 16 Feb 2016, at 4:17 PM, Matt Maier  wrote:
> 
> Could this be similar?


If it worked it may have been a result of lax parsing which I think has been 
tightened up a bit in 8. Someone on the core team might be able to comment on 
that.

Cheers

Monte

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Mac window fullscreen widget

[Monte Goulding]

Hi folks

I see that in my latest build of LC 8 the fullscreen widget is enabled on 
topLevel and modeless windows but I don’t recall any notes on this. I’m 
interested largely because I was going to add this in hactoberfest but decided 
against it because of the rather interesting entanglement of decorations 
properties and fullscreen property along with the recreation of windows for 
certain things meaning it seemed non-trivial to ensure a window stayed in 
fullscreen once put there etc.

We need ways to programmatically enter and leave fullscreen mode along with 
ways to enable and disable the availability of the mode. Anyone have any hints 
where I look for those things.

Ah… and now I just worked out that the widget appears to be a function of my 
now being on El Capitan which perhaps defaults windows to having the widget 
instead of the normal + maximize. This probably means it’s a bug even though it 
would be a nice feature ;-)

Perhaps someone on the team might comment?

Cheers

Monte
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[ANN] mergExt News

[Monte Goulding]

Hi LiveCoders and in particular mergExt users!

Today I have a rather large announcement to make about mergExt. mergExt 
Externals are now exclusively licensed to LiveCode Ltd. The intention is for 
most or all of the externals to be available to LiveCode Indy licensed users.

We will aim to have little or no interruption of access to the externals for 
exisiting users. I will continue to maintain the suite, however, the support 
queue will now be via supp...@livecode.com. I will be joining the development 
team soon and look forward to being able to work on the platform and extensions 
full time.

Thanks to all those that have supported mergExt over the years!

Cheers 

Monte
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Re: [ANN] mergExt News

[Monte Goulding]

Thanks Ben

There's still a few things to sort out with Kevin but we will try and ensure 
existing users won't be impacted. For the time being if you have access then 
continue to use it during the transition. If you need access then contact 
supp...@livecode.com

Cheers

Monte

Sent from my iPhone

> On 17 Feb 2016, at 10:21 PM, Ben Rubinstein  wrote:
> 
> This is great news for LiveCode.
> 
> Thank you Monte for your incredible work.
> 
> > exclusively licensed
> 
> How does that effect existing licensees?
> 
> Ben
> 
>> On 17/02/2016 11:01, Monte Goulding wrote:
>> Hi LiveCoders and in particular mergExt users!
>> 
>> Today I have a rather large announcement to make about mergExt. mergExt 
>> Externals are now exclusively licensed to LiveCode Ltd. The intention is for 
>> most or all of the externals to be available to LiveCode Indy licensed users.
>> 
>> We will aim to have little or no interruption of access to the externals for 
>> exisiting users. I will continue to maintain the suite, however, the support 
>> queue will now be via supp...@livecode.com. I will be joining the 
>> development team soon and look forward to being able to work on the platform 
>> and extensions full time.
>> 
>> Thanks to all those that have supported mergExt over the years!
>> 
>> Cheers
>> 
>> Monte
> 
> 
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Re: [ANN] mergExt News

[Monte Goulding]

Woops.. Sorry

Sent from my iPhone

> On 17 Feb 2016, at 10:29 PM, Kevin Miller  wrote:
> 
> we were planning
> to take another day or so to button up the Q&A around this and carefully
> announce it to you all.

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Re: [ANN] mergExt News

[Monte Goulding]

Thanks for the love folks.

> On 18 Feb 2016, at 3:50 AM, Mark Wieder  wrote:
> 
> On 02/17/2016 03:01 AM, Monte Goulding wrote:
>> Hi LiveCoders and in particular mergExt users!
>> 
>> Today I have a rather large announcement to make about mergExt. mergExt 
>> Externals are now exclusively licensed to LiveCode Ltd. The intention is for 
>> most or all of the externals to be available to LiveCode Indy licensed users.
> 
> 'rather large'... Monte has a way with understatements...
> 
> Woot! This is great news for everybody!
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
> 
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Re: [ANN] mergExt News

[Monte Goulding]

> On 19 Feb 2016, at 5:30 AM, Matt Maier  wrote:
> 
> That's awesome, congrats Monte and Livecode.

Thanks Matt
> 
> Can you clarify the uses of mergExt? Since mergExt is closed source, does
> that mean we just can't use any of those widgets if we want to release open
> source, or is there a way to separate them out as some kind of binary
> bundle?

There are a few of open source externals (mergJSON, mergMarkdown, mergContact, 
mergDevice). Those that are open source will remain so but there is no plan to 
open source the rest which means they are not compatible with LiveCode 
Community.

> Can they be used from a web app in support of operations on a
> phone, or do they have to be on the phone itself?

No they need to be included in the app. Currently this is by adding them to the 
copy files of the standalone but as soon as we can we will extend the 
extensions format to support externals (and I’m hoping other things like 
libraries) to give a better experience for all types of extensions not just LCB 
based.

Cheers

Monte
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Re: mergExt Acquisition

[Monte Goulding]

> On 19 Feb 2016, at 12:04 PM, Roger Eller  wrote:
> 
> I agree with you, Clarence.  The words "cross platform where appropriate"
> leaves it unclear just how much or how little will be ported.  I expect if
> it is difficult to do it will remain iOS only.

I believe the goal will be to make them as cross platform as feasible and use 
widgets where we can. It may involve some significant API changes. There’s 
definitely some things which aren’t available on iOS though. For example, 
mergSocial relies on a framework that isn’t there in Android. We can workaround 
this by making cross platform Facebook and Twitter externals/extensions but 
that’s not a port of mergSocial. Every time this has been raised I have made it 
clear that the main thing I needed was a client that felt it was important 
enough to their business that things be cross platform that they would pay me 
to do it. Well I have that now as it’s clearly critically important to 
LiveCode. There was and still are a couple of technical hurdles to jump for 
some things like maps on android but we can get there I’m sure.

Having said all that I always saw the role of mergExt to be twofold. Features 
that probably shouldn’t be put in the engine to avoid bloating it which may or 
may not be cross platform. Things like barcode reading, camera controls & maps 
I think fit there. Then there’s things that are OS bling. These might be unique 
APIs like the Social framework or Touch ID. I have a little from column A and a 
little from column B. Column A should lend itself to porting. To get equity 
from column B we might look for more bling from Android and other platforms. I 
did this in my Android external experiments in the excellently named 
mergPopToast command.

I probably should say though that Kevin’s plans might be different from mine 
and he’s directing this show now ;-)

Cheers

Monte
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Re: mergExt Acquisition

[Monte Goulding]

> On 19 Feb 2016, at 2:06 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami  
> wrote:
> 
> Does the FTP external do SFTP?

No, sorry, I wouldn’t use it if it were transferring sensitive data to and from 
the phone
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Re: Release 6.7.9 RC 3 / 7.1.2 RC 3

[Monte Goulding]

I don't think you have ever been able to show a button in a hidden group and 
see the button if that's what you mean.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 25 Feb 2016, at 6:53 AM, Mike Kerner  wrote:
> 
> ok, maybe this is something entirely different.  I have debugging buttons
> in a group.  In 6.x, I would show and hide individual buttons of the group,
> depending on the situation.  The group existed so I could move them all
> around.  In this version, I have to show and hide the entire group to show
> or hide the group's members.  Anyone else?  Is this a 7 thing that I missed?
> 
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 2:49 PM, Mike Kerner 
> wrote:
> 
>> Anyone else having a problem with button visibility in this version?
>> showing buttons that are normally hidden on ios doesn't seem to be working
>> for me.
>> 
>> On Fri, Feb 19, 2016 at 6:59 AM, panagiotis merakos <
>> panos.mera...@livecode.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Dear List Members,
>>> 
>>> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 6.7.9 RC 3 and 7.1.2 RC
>>> 3.
>>> 
>>> *Release Content*
>>> This release contains bug fixes for regressions introduced in 7.1.2 RC
>>> 1/RC
>>> 2. The list of regressions fixed can be found in the Release Notes.
>>> 
>>> *Getting the Release*
>>> To get the release please download the installer directly at:
>>> http://downloads.livecode.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> *6.7.9 Stable / 7.1.2 Stable*
>>> The next build is planned to be released early next week - and we expect
>>> it
>>> to be a Final build.
>>> 
>>> Warm regards,
>>> 
>>> The LiveCode Team
>>> --
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>> 
>> 
>> --
>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>   and did a little diving.
>> And God said, "This is good."
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Release 6.7.9 RC 3 / 7.1.2 RC 3

[Monte Goulding]

I wonder if you had the group visible with hidden content and hid it at some 
point?

Sent from my iPhone

> On 25 Feb 2016, at 7:08 AM, Mike Kerner  wrote:
> 
> So, maybe I
> had some goofy side effect in a previous version, if that's the case.

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Re: Players in HTML5 - ETA for Full Functionality?

[Monte Goulding]

> On 25 Feb 2016, at 1:09 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami  
> wrote:
> 
> Not having this capability in LC  seems... well (I will refrain from 
> explicatives...)

Did you expect such a major and technically difficult port of the platform to 
all arrive in one blob without any progressive development? As is HTML5 
deployment will be quite functional for quite a number of apps. It seems 
reasonable to me that those that don’t need or can work around some of the 
currently un-ported features should have the opportunity to use it.

Cheers

Monte
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Re: LiveCode for the Hobbyists

[Monte Goulding]

You might need to fill in some blanks for me on why that is important for a 
hobbyist? I would say one feature of a hobbyist with a budget market license 
could be no code protection so it's an important point to clarify.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 27 Feb 2016, at 10:29 AM, [-hh]  wrote:
> 
> Because, not always but sometimes, you would like to share the code
> with some people only, not with all.
> And at the same time you are willing to share your product with all,
> for free.

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Re: LiveCode for the Hobbyists

[Monte Goulding]

> On 27 Feb 2016, at 9:28 AM, [-hh]  wrote:
> 
> Build on the next generation, who will become decision maker in a few
> years. And, if they *know* the software, may also become possible
> buyers of LC-related products:
> Give teachers and their students in class FREE copies.
> Give university students and hobbyists very cheap copies.

Which out of these groups isn't covered by LiveCode Community? Clearly Indy has 
a target market of developers earning or planning to earn at least enough to 
justify the cost. I'm not really sure I understand the issue here. Is it people 
want to give the company money but don't want to do it via donations as thanks 
for the availability of Community?

Cheers

Monte
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Re: LiveCode for the Hobbyists

[Monte Goulding]

Apples/oranges you are comparing proprietary extensions with something created 
just for the fun of it with no intent to commercialise.

Cheers

Monte

Sent from my iPhone

> On 27 Feb 2016, at 11:17 AM, [-hh]  wrote:
> 
> Why are you hiding your externals code? Could it be that a simple
> student who has a good idea, wants to hide his code, may be only for a
> while, for similar reasons?

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Re: The Future of LiveCode in Education

[Monte Goulding]

> On 1 Mar 2016, at 7:16 AM, Richard Gaskin  wrote:
> 
> Right now we see Scratch used for some of that, but the boundaries of any 
> point-and-click system are encountered pretty quickly.  For young users it 
> can be a good starting point, but most outgrow it fairly quickly.

My son regularly immerses in Scratch. There’s a couple of things that make it a 
good learning environment beyond the drag and drop code blocks:
 - web based so no download and install for schools without the resources to do 
that easily
 - a tightly integrated project sharing and social network of users

Now that we have HTML 5 it may be possible to cover these points and we are at 
least part way there on the sharing front. It would be nice to be able to 
sandbox code to a particular group if we wanted a single stack IDE that might 
work on tablets and in the browser. Some kind of canModify for a group in a 
cantModify stack might be nice too…

Anyway, the other point I wanted to make is I think we could do well to 
actively target a Scratch -> LiveCode transition. One way would be to import a 
user’s projects into LiveCode from Scratch via the Scratch API and some well 
commented code generation: http://wiki.scratch.mit.edu/wiki/Scratch_API_(2.0) 


Cheers

Monte
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Re: Open source, closed source, and the value of code

[Monte Goulding]

I believe the monthly subscription was dropped at the time of the open source 
release for exactly those reasons. Funnily enough LiveCode developers need to 
pay the bills too so need to avoid enabling people to game the system. One of 
the issues of course is that there really might only be a handful of users that 
can't afford Indy and can't or won't use Community.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 1 Mar 2016, at 9:25 AM, RM  wrote:
> 
> There was (amidst the plethora of purchasing plans that have come and gone) a 
> way to
> have a month's licence; so one could develop one's stack using the Community 
> version
> and then purchase a month's worht of commercial to hive off protected 
> standalones; whether that is still available I just don't know having stuck 
> with the Community version right from when it was released.

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Re: The Future of LiveCode in Education

[Monte Goulding]

But a minute x 30 computers for an already overworked class teacher or under 
funded school tech just to do an hour of code type lesson may not happen. 
Ideally there might be an intermediate step between Scratch and the full LC IDE 
using a HTML5 IDE to introduce the language and advertise the full platform.

Cheers

Monte

Sent from my iPhone

> On 1 Mar 2016, at 8:21 AM, Richard Gaskin  wrote:
> 
> Of course it still means download an app, but that's a one-time task and 
> doesn't take but a minute.

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Re: Open source, closed source, and the value of code

[Monte Goulding]

Roger if you are suggesting you would be happy with Community if you could 
publish GPL apps to Apple's stores then that's probably something to take up 
with Apple.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 1 Mar 2016, at 10:39 AM, Roger Guay  wrote:
> 
> Do you include those who might want to publish to the Mac App Store and IOS 
> in your estimate?

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Re: Open source, closed source, and the value of code

[Monte Goulding]

What estimate? I did say "might" as I really have no idea what y'all can afford 
:-)


Sent from my iPhone

> On 1 Mar 2016, at 12:10 PM, [-hh]  wrote:
> 
> Monte, Roger's question is clear. Why don't you answer it?
> And show us the the data that's the base of your estimate?

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Re: Open source, closed source, and the value of code

[Monte Goulding]

> On 1 Mar 2016, at 12:32 PM, Roger Guay  wrote:
> 
> Once more, I point out that this might be a good new revenue stream for LC!!! 
> Does it hurt anyone?


I guess it could hurt everyone that depends on the platform if it undercut the 
Indy license too much. One thing we know for sure is that with the Indy price 
rise being staged effectively over a couple of years since the first rise that 
the company is being more than fair with its current user base by giving them 
the opportunity to lock in current prices for the long term. 

Whether as the price of Indy rises a space is created for some kind of Indy 
Lite remains to be seen. However, I might suggest it would be difficult to find 
the right mix of features for it… Should it have no code protection but still 
allow proprietary licenses? Perhaps it should be royalty based or only allow 
free apps? Maybe it should have splash screens on standalones? Maybe individual 
platform licenses? What about a set fee per platform per standalone build? 
Maybe everything that can be easily removed from LC could be an addon at extra 
cost (database, xml, widgets etc)?

So many options that even if the company had something in this space it still 
won’t meet everyones needs.

Cheers

Monte
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