Re: ANN: MVC primer

[Dan Shafer]

As an old Smalltalker, I found your MVC stack/tutorial to be quite  
cogent, clear and even refreshing. Nice demo. Nice work.


Dan

On Sep 22, 2005, at 10:23 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:


In honor of the day when all the Noxes are Equi:

Thanks to some prodding from Richard Gaskin and Trevore DeVore I've
been spending some time putting together a system of Events and
Observers. I started out with the classic Model-Viewer-Controller
construct from Smalltalk, but ended up with a much more Transcript way
of looking at the message passing.

I've uploaded the MVC primer to my user space (mwieder) on RevOnline.
The MVC implementation is all in the MVC substack. You can make any
object into a Controller with one line of code. Registering a Viewer
is also done with one line of code, and making an object into a Viewer
is a matter of adding a single handler. The last card in the stack is
an example of a throttle-gearbox-tachometer combination implemented
with Viewers and Controllers which are completely decoupled from each
other.

--
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Teleo from makingthings.com

[Sarah Reichelt]

Hi Liam,

Yes, I have only used them with Mac OS X. You need a USB-serial
adapter, preferably one with a D9 connector. I use an EasySync FTDI
adapter for this and it works fine. There is a Serial test stack on my
web site that allows you to test sending & receiving the commands:


Cheers,
Sarah

On 9/23/05, liamlambert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Sarah thanks for your reply Does weeder devices work with mac's (osx)
> Liam
>
> On 9/15/05, liamlambert  wrote:
>  > Has anyone use rev with teleo from makingthings.com I am looking for
>  > a stack that will connect to there starter kit and read a single
>  > Digital in put
>  >   Liam . L
>
> Unfortunately, Telo uses a USB interface and Revolution currently has
> no mechanism for reading & writing to a USB port directly, although I
> understand that Altuit are working on an external to do this. However
> Rev can write to a serial port or to a USB-serial adapter to you might
> find these Weeder devices useful . I have
> successfully used the Digital I/O, Analog Input & Thermocouple Input
> modules with a Revolution program.
>
> Cheers,
> Sarah
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ANN: MVC primer

[Mark Wieder]

In honor of the day when all the Noxes are Equi:

Thanks to some prodding from Richard Gaskin and Trevore DeVore I've
been spending some time putting together a system of Events and
Observers. I started out with the classic Model-Viewer-Controller
construct from Smalltalk, but ended up with a much more Transcript way
of looking at the message passing.

I've uploaded the MVC primer to my user space (mwieder) on RevOnline.
The MVC implementation is all in the MVC substack. You can make any
object into a Controller with one line of code. Registering a Viewer
is also done with one line of code, and making an object into a Viewer
is a matter of adding a single handler. The last card in the stack is
an example of a throttle-gearbox-tachometer combination implemented
with Viewers and Controllers which are completely decoupled from each
other.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: add menu-background vanishes

[MisterX]

Paul

sorry to hear about your loss of time on this... The background issues are
also maddening when you don't know what happens...

had I heard you before... I've seen this issue since 6 years come and go...
As TAOO uses backgrounds a lot, I've seen this happen lots... 

As Jacky said, if your cards lost the menus, a repeat loop to "place" the
menu on each card does the job.

But the structure possibilities of this feature are far greater than the
shortcomings - don't ask me for what ;). What would be nice would be have a
dialog warning the user that an operation would remove the group from all
the cards if you do it wrong or likewise ask the user if he wants the new
background group on all cards...

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 4:14 AM
To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Subject: Re: add menu-background vanishes

It took me 18 months to straighten out the menus in my stacks (this while
reading the docs, Dan's book, notes on this forum - I also consulted some to
the best brains in the Rev world). In the end the solution is simple:
1. Build menus on a stack before adding cards. If the stack has cards, build
the menus on a new one-card stack and import the data 2. Do not put the menu
group inside another group (like the usual background group). Also do not
put the background group inside the menu group (yes, this IS possible).
Geoff Canyon's Navigator plugin is essential for sorting out all of this.
How many potential users have we lost because of this ongoing menu madness?
Paul Looney
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RE: Clipboard madness

[MisterX]

MisterX-

Thursday, September 22, 2005, 3:58:04 PM, you wrote:

> Again... What happens is that if there is html in the clipdata, what 
> is in between backslashes gets filtered out...

> I copied this

> emcacl \\server\fs$\userprog\xxx /t /c /y /q /g "SYSTEM":F 
> "OAAD\xxx":C

Works fine here, too, under Win2k and rev 2.6...


Mark

that's because you copied text only - not html...

your clipboarddata["html"] was empty... so the ["text"] part was used...

cheers
Xavier

 

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Teleo from makingthings.com

[liamlambert]

Sarah thanks for your reply Does weeder devices work with mac's (osx)
Liam

On 9/15/05, liamlambert  wrote:
> Has anyone use rev with teleo from makingthings.com I am looking for
> a stack that will connect to there starter kit and read a single
> Digital in put
>   Liam . L

Unfortunately, Telo uses a USB interface and Revolution currently has
no mechanism for reading & writing to a USB port directly, although I
understand that Altuit are working on an external to do this. However
Rev can write to a serial port or to a USB-serial adapter to you might
find these Weeder devices useful . I have
successfully used the Digital I/O, Analog Input & Thermocouple Input
modules with a Revolution program.

Cheers,
Sarah
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Re: Tiger breaks hyperCard?

[J. Landman Gay]

Marty Billingsley wrote:


We really miss HC's text tool for "painting"
letters and words.  Why did RunRev eliminate that?


They didn't, really -- Scott Raney, who wrote the original engine, just 
never put it in. I used to think I'd miss it, but so far I haven't ever 
needed paint text. Is there something specific you do that requires it?


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Updating menus (was Re: Clipboard madness)

[Richard Gaskin]

Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:

At 1:22 PM -0700 9/22/2005, Richard Gaskin wrote:

But if the user has text on the Clipboard from another app, how does 
your app know without something horribly inefficient like polling?


I'd be inclined to just check the clipboard function on mouseDown in the 
menu bar. That way you only need to update the menu when it's actually 
displayed. (Of course you'd also need to check the clipboard in the 
menuPick handler itself, because if the user uses a keyboard equivalent 
you won't get the mouseDown, but I think that's not a bad idea anyway, 
just on general principles - it's the last line of defense for error 
handling in case the clipboard content isn't what you thought it was.)


While that takes care of the menu rendering, it doesn't take care of any 
keyboard shortcuts that a menu might have.


Ken and Xavier's suggestion of using the resume message allows us to do 
both.


I still believe there's an even simpler way to handle that through 
properties alone, but lately I think everything can be reduced to 
property settings so I may just be crazy.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
 ___
 Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com
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Re: Tiger breaks hyperCard?

[Richard Gaskin]

Marty Billingsley wrote:

Richard Gaskin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Ken Norris wrote:


Note: HyperCard is the one-and-only software item I run in Classic
today. I use its Color Tools because, albeit it lacks some features,
it's still has the fastest, most intuitive paint tools, for cranking out
graphical artwork parts, on the planet.


How would you characterize the benefits of the HC color tools over Rev's
tools?


I'll jump in here, although my beef is more with the regular painting
tools than the color tools.  We really miss HC's text tool for "painting"
letters and words.  Why did RunRev eliminate that?


That perspective is based on a philosophical position that may not 
reflect the inventor's intent.


Rather than ask "Why did RunRev eliminate that?", it may better reflect 
the engine's unique history by asking "Why didn't they add that?"


It may seem like just word-mincing, but there's a fundamental difference 
that may help newcomers understand other differences between Rev and HC 
(or any other xTalk implementation):


RunRev was not originally invented to be a HyperCard clone per se. 
While it incorporates much of the same language and object model, it 
extends them in ways that add unique value to Rev, much like every other 
xTalk has its own extensions to differentiate themselves from HC.


So to answer the question "Why didn't Rev implement a paint text tool?", 
my guess would be that they already had fully anti-aliased, 
resolution-independent text in fields.


Under what sort of circumstances would there be a benefit to having 
bitmapped text for which fields could not be used?


If a strong enough case can be made that benefits enough users I'm sure 
RunRev would consider it.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
 ___
 Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com
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Re: add menu-background vanishes

[SimPLsol]

It took me 18 months to straighten out the menus in my stacks (this while 
reading the docs, Dan's book, notes on this forum - I also consulted some to 
the 
best brains in the Rev world). In the end the solution is simple:
1. Build menus on a stack before adding cards. If the stack has cards, build 
the menus on a new one-card stack and import the data
2. Do not put the menu group inside another group (like the usual background 
group). Also do not put the background group inside the menu group (yes, this 
IS possible).
Geoff Canyon's Navigator plugin is essential for sorting out all of this.
How many potential users have we lost because of this ongoing menu madness?
Paul Looney
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Re: Clipboard madness

[Richard Gaskin]

MisterX wrote:

Richard,


In what way is it wrong? 


in what way is it wrong that you don’t test what I posted in the first place
in this thread?


Sorry, I missed the original thread.
I generally don't run my own tests of all issues reported to this list, 
and would envy the free time of anyone who does. :)



Again... What happens is that if there is html in the clipdata, what is in
between backslashes gets filtered out...


Interesting. What's the BZ number?  I'll add a vote for it.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
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Re: add menu-background vanishes

[Richard Gaskin]

J. Landman Gay wrote:
Don't add the menu group to the regular background group - trust me, 
much misery.


What happens? Just curious, I've never tried it.


Once you turn off the editMenus the bottom of the menu group is used to 
determine where the stack's crop-and-scroll takes place to hide the 
menubar on Mac OS.


The engine apparently presumes the menu group will always be a separate 
group, so if the menu group is inside another group and that enclosing 
group fills the card, the bottom of that enclosing group is the bounds 
for the crop-and-scroll and so the card is reduced to just the title bar.


This can only be done by explicit user actions and is easily avoidable, 
but for completeness should probably be BZ'd anyway, with perhaps a 
caveat added to the docs not to do that.


It seems reasonable to me that a person would attempt to put a menu 
group within a background group of an imported HC stack to automatically 
have their menu group on all cards without having to do a "place" on 
each.  I believe that's what Paul was doing at the time, and to prevent 
others from walking down the same confusing road a little footnote in 
the docs would help.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
 ___
 Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com
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Re: Building Standalones with Panther/Tiger

[David Burgun]

Great! Just what I need to here. I get the same. What's up? This 
needs to be addressed and quickly if we are to use RunRev to any 
advantage.


The good old MacOS before X was so much easier!

Dave



I haven't observed that problem here. I routinely build apps on 
Tiger and deploy on Panther. Could you give us more details about 
the app you're trying to build?


Devin


I'm building an app that uses AppleScript to control an FM Pro 
database on the same machine.  I'm not using any external or special 
resources of any kind.


When I double-click on a Panther-built copy on a Tiger machine the 
dock twitches briefly as if it's about to show the program icon and 
then nothing.  If I build the standalone on the Tiger system and 
double-click again it opens normally!


I get exactly the same effect the other way round on a Panther 
system, i.e. trying to run a Tiger-built copy.


Both the Tiger and Panther app packages contain:
   Contents
  Info.plist
  MacOS
 AssessmentCapture
  PkgInfo
  PlugIns
 coreimage_support.bundle
  Resources
 Revolution.icns
 RevolutionDoc.icns

and the file sizes are identical.

If I run my Rev stack from within Rev itself, it works identically, 
without any problems, on both Tiger and Panther.  It's only as a 
standalone that I get this behaviour?!


Peter
--
Peter Reid
Reid-IT Limited, Loughborough, Leics., UK
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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RE: Clipboard madness

[David Burgun]

Almost the same on Mac, even using the IDE, sometimes you Command+S 
and nothing happens, but then you select the same option from the 
Menu Bar and it works!


Drives me mad, but there really is a problem with keyboard shortcuts.

Bye for now
Dave




that's still doesn't explain why you can't:

- copy from a stack with no menubar and when the revmenubar is there
- use the script editors menu shortcuts when you are in the script editor
- why copy wont work with control-c or control-ins - there's only one
stack...
- why other rev shortcuts work when the revmenu doesn't (there's a
backscript called revshortcuts but it doesn't help)
- why it's not enough to activate a window with a menubar but you actually
have to click in the menu to make it listen to your shortkeys (script editor
eg)

sorry, but I got the hardened fingers to prove this anyway you want...
Is this working wrong only on PCs maybe again?

Xavier

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of J. Landman Gay
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 8:47 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Clipboard madness

MisterX wrote:


 there's no passing of the control key if you have a menubar that
 doesn't handle it while this is a rev-command. This would have never
 failed in hypercard as I remember the good old days...


Exactly, and that is how it should work. If I have a custom menu bar and I
have disabled or omitted the "copy" command, that means I do not want to
allow copying. It would be a bug if copying was active in this case.

Control/command key shortcuts are intended to initiate menu functions.
If you want the ability to use them, then include those functions in your
menus. I don't see any bug here.

HyperCard was different because it had no "real" menus. They were all
simulated, and all keystrokes eventually made their way to the engine if
they were not trapped. This made HyperCard standalones behave differently
than other applications. Revolution's implementation is more consistent and
allows stack authors to script reliable menu behavior.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Clipboard madness

[Mark Wieder]

MisterX-

Thursday, September 22, 2005, 3:58:04 PM, you wrote:

> Again... What happens is that if there is html in the clipdata, what is in
> between backslashes gets filtered out...

> I copied this

> emcacl \\server\fs$\userprog\xxx /t /c /y /q /g "SYSTEM":F
> "OAAD\xxx":C

Works fine here, too, under Win2k and rev 2.6...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Clipboard madness

[Pat Trendler]

Hi,

For what it's worth, I can confirm the same result as Xavier. It also 
happens pasting into the message box. I am on PC XP Pro.

For some reason I didn't think of it as a bug, but I realize now that it is.

It was annoying, but to get around it when copying and pasting, I pasted it 
first into Notepad and then into Rev (quicker than typing the missing bits)



Pat
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

- Original Message - 
From: "MisterX" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "'How to use Revolution'" 
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 8:58 AM
Subject: RE: Clipboard madness


Richard,


In what way is it wrong?


in what way is it wrong that you don't test what I posted in the first place
in this thread?

PC issue only again?

Again... What happens is that if there is html in the clipdata, what is in
between backslashes gets filtered out...

I copied this

emcacl \\server\fs$\userprog\xxx /t /c /y /q /g "SYSTEM":F
"OAAD\xxx":C

when I paste it in any field I get

emcacl $\\ /t /c /y /q /g "SYSTEM":F "OAAD\":C

Tested on 3 systems (w2k, nt4, w2k3), MC and Rev, script editor + other
fields + bugzilla time...

but if you look at the clipboarddata["text"] it is correct.

now try it yourself, put the clipboarddata["html"] to see the difference!

The problem is that somewhere when Rev interprets the html it strips my text
into

emcacl $\\ /t /c /y /q /g "SYSTEM":F "OAAD\":C

which quite obviously is not the same...


In what way is it wrong?


Copy some C code, and you'll get the same treatment when you paste it into a
rev field (this was the problem I reported long ago to Scott 3 to 5 years
ago... at least now, it's bugzillaed...

In what way is that wrong?

cheers
Xavier

MonsieurX.com - probably the biggest source of rev links, opensource stacks
and bugzillas on earth!
And some still don't believe me or think I care to report these things
carefully and professionaly without testing...

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard Gaskin
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:12 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Clipboard madness

MisterX wrote:

put the clipboarddata["text"] -- contains the right information

while

put clipboarddata["html"] -- is definitely wrong and should not be
trusted...


In what way is it wrong?

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
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--
No virus found in this incoming message.
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Re: Tiger breaks hyperCard?

[Marty Billingsley]

> Richard Gaskin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Ken Norris wrote:
> > Note: HyperCard is the one-and-only software item I run in Classic
> > today. I use its Color Tools because, albeit it lacks some features,
> > it's still has the fastest, most intuitive paint tools, for cranking out
> > graphical artwork parts, on the planet.
>
> How would you characterize the benefits of the HC color tools over Rev's
> tools?

I'll jump in here, although my beef is more with the regular painting
tools than the color tools.  We really miss HC's text tool for "painting"
letters and words.  Why did RunRev eliminate that?

 - marty


--
Marty Billingsley ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
The University of Chicago Laboratory Schools
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Re: Building Standalones with Panther/Tiger

[Peter Reid]

I have seen this before and it is a permissions problem caused (as
Malte suggests) by copying an uncompressed app from one computer to
another. The system version has nothing to do with it as far as I
know. Panther & Tiger both have built-in compression. Right-click
(control-click) on the application and choose "Create archive..." to
make a zip file that can easily be transferred.

HTH,
Sarah


Interesting!  I just connected From my Tiger-PowerMac to my 
Panther-PowerBook over my network and created a zip archive using the 
OS X built-in facility, then dragged it to a folder on my 
Tiger-PowerMac, unzipped it and it worked!


Is this a Mac OS X thing or a Rev thing?  I haven't seen this 
behaviour with other software I move by dragging across a network 
connection.


When both the PowerMac and PowerBook were Panther, I don't think I 
saw this problem with Rev either??


Cheers

Peter
--
Peter Reid
Reid-IT Limited, Loughborough, Leics., UK
Tel: +44 (0)1509 268843 Fax: +44 (0)8700 527576
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: http://www.reidit.co.uk
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Re: Building Standalones with Panther/Tiger

[Peter Reid]

Stupid question: How do you transfer the apps from one computer to 
the other? Are you using stuff-it to pack it before transfer? Have 
you tried a memory stick or CD-R with an uncompressed app? I have 
seen that behaviour with a broken stuff-it version before 
(Jaguar/Panther in that case).


All the best,

Malte


Direct network connection - I have a PowerMac G4 running Tiger and a 
PowerBook 15" running Panther on the same network.  My development 
system is the PowerMac G4, but my main client is still on Panther so 
I keep my PowerBook on that.


Cheers

Peter
--
Peter Reid
Reid-IT Limited, Loughborough, Leics., UK
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Building Standalones with Panther/Tiger

[Sarah Reichelt]

>  >When I double-click on a Panther-built copy on a Tiger machine the
>  >dock twitches briefly as if it's about to show the program icon and
>  >then nothing.
>
> Stupid question: How do you transfer the apps from one computer to the
> other? Are you using stuff-it to pack it before transfer? Have you
> tried a memory stick or CD-R with an uncompressed app? I have seen that
> behaviour with a broken stuff-it version before (Jaguar/Panther in that
> case).
>

I have seen this before and it is a permissions problem caused (as
Malte suggests) by copying an uncompressed app from one computer to
another. The system version has nothing to do with it as far as I
know. Panther & Tiger both have built-in compression. Right-click
(control-click) on the application and choose "Create archive..." to
make a zip file that can easily be transferred.

HTH,
Sarah
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Re: Clipboard madness

[J. Landman Gay]

MisterX wrote:

Richard,


In what way is it wrong? 



in what way is it wrong that you don’t test what I posted in the first place
in this thread?

PC issue only again?

Again... What happens is that if there is html in the clipdata, what is in
between backslashes gets filtered out...

I copied this

emcacl \\server\fs$\userprog\xxx /t /c /y /q /g "SYSTEM":F
"OAAD\xxx":C

when I paste it in any field I get

emcacl $\\ /t /c /y /q /g "SYSTEM":F "OAAD\":C


Works okay here in OS X. I get the same as what I copied, both html and 
plain text.


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RE: Clipboard madness

[MisterX]

Richard,

>In what way is it wrong? 

in what way is it wrong that you don’t test what I posted in the first place
in this thread?

PC issue only again?

Again... What happens is that if there is html in the clipdata, what is in
between backslashes gets filtered out...

I copied this

emcacl \\server\fs$\userprog\xxx /t /c /y /q /g "SYSTEM":F
"OAAD\xxx":C

when I paste it in any field I get

emcacl $\\ /t /c /y /q /g "SYSTEM":F "OAAD\":C

Tested on 3 systems (w2k, nt4, w2k3), MC and Rev, script editor + other
fields + bugzilla time...

but if you look at the clipboarddata["text"] it is correct.

now try it yourself, put the clipboarddata["html"] to see the difference!

The problem is that somewhere when Rev interprets the html it strips my text
into 

emcacl $\\ /t /c /y /q /g "SYSTEM":F "OAAD\":C 

which quite obviously is not the same... 

In what way is it wrong? 

Copy some C code, and you'll get the same treatment when you paste it into a
rev field (this was the problem I reported long ago to Scott 3 to 5 years
ago... at least now, it's bugzillaed... 

In what way is that wrong? 

cheers
Xavier

MonsieurX.com - probably the biggest source of rev links, opensource stacks
and bugzillas on earth!
And some still don’t believe me or think I care to report these things
carefully and professionaly without testing...

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard Gaskin
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:12 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Clipboard madness

MisterX wrote:
> put the clipboarddata["text"] -- contains the right information
> 
> while
> 
> put clipboarddata["html"] -- is definitely wrong and should not be 
> trusted...

In what way is it wrong?

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Re: Updating menus (was Re: Clipboard madness)

[Jeanne A. E. DeVoto]

At 1:22 PM -0700 9/22/2005, Richard Gaskin wrote:
But if the user has text on the Clipboard from another app, how does 
your app know without something horribly inefficient like polling?


I'd be inclined to just check the clipboard function on mouseDown in 
the menu bar. That way you only need to update the menu when it's 
actually displayed. (Of course you'd also need to check the clipboard 
in the menuPick handler itself, because if the user uses a keyboard 
equivalent you won't get the mouseDown, but I think that's not a bad 
idea anyway, just on general principles - it's the last line of 
defense for error handling in case the clipboard content isn't what 
you thought it was.)

--
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.jaedworks.com
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re: Looking for someone to code a custom external.

[TJ Frame]

I'd like to publicly say thank you to the various people that contacted me
regarding my post. I will be contacting the person who best fits my needs
personally via email.
 - Thanks again :)
 - TJ
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Re: add menu-background vanishes

[J. Landman Gay]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Rich Lague asks,
Does the menu builder move the existing objects down further when there are 
more cards in the stack?


Rich,
Yes, yes, yes!


I believe you, but I haven't ever seen it. Is there a recipe? It should 
be in Bugzilla if so -- that's pretty non-standard behavior.


Revolution doesn't have a real background, so background groups are added to 
new cards. The menus are a background group.
If you add a menu to a single card stack, it will get replicated with each 
new card. Works fine.
If you add a menu to some card in a multi-card stack (number of cards does 
not matter, yours was 500, could have been 1,000 - or just 2) only that card has 
the menu. Cards made after that card will have the menu. BUT on OS X entering 
or leaving the range of cards with the menu will resize the height of the 
stack - usually 20 pixels, but sometimes 40 or 60 or??? sometimes plus sometimes  
 minus.

You could copy the menu to each card in the stack.


This isn't a good idea. That would give the stack 500 copies of the same 
group, each independent of the others, and would bloat stack size. 
Instead, use "place grp 'myMenuGrp' onto this card", which shares the 
same group among all the cards.


Don't add the menu group to the regular background group - trust me, much 
misery.


What happens? Just curious, I've never tried it.

The best thing, in my experience the only truly reliable thing, is to reduce 
you stack to a single card, add the menus, rebuild the stack.


I've never had to do that (and it would really set me back time-wise if 
I did.) I use the "pushdown" handler posted on my web site, which has 
always worked pretty well for me:





I wish this was documented - at least, part of Jeanne's excellent conference 
on menus.
This has been messing up new users for at least two years, it is time 
SOMETHING is done about it!


People have been complaining about it for even longer than that. ;) But 
personally I haven't had any trouble with it. Once I understood the menu 
paradigm it made sense.


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HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Clipboard madness

[J. Landman Gay]

MisterX wrote:
> that's still doesn't explain why you can't:
>
> - copy from a stack with no menubar and when the revmenubar is there
> - use the script editors menu shortcuts when you are in the script editor
> - why copy wont work with control-c or control-ins - there's only one
> stack...
> - why other rev shortcuts work when the revmenu doesn't (there's a
> backscript called revshortcuts but it doesn't help)
> - why it's not enough to activate a window with a menubar but you 
actually
> have to click in the menu to make it listen to your shortkeys (script 
editor

> eg)
>
> sorry, but I got the hardened fingers to prove this anyway you want...
> Is this working wrong only on PCs maybe again?

Some of these things are bugs that have been reported in Bugzilla 
already. I was only addressing your comment about how command keys don't 
work if there is not a related menu item. I think the current behavior 
is correct in that respect.


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HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: add menu-background vanishes

[SimPLsol]

Rich Lague asks,
Does the menu builder move the existing objects down further when there are 
more cards in the stack?

Rich,
Yes, yes, yes!
Revolution doesn't have a real background, so background groups are added to 
new cards. The menus are a background group.
If you add a menu to a single card stack, it will get replicated with each 
new card. Works fine.
If you add a menu to some card in a multi-card stack (number of cards does 
not matter, yours was 500, could have been 1,000 - or just 2) only that card 
has 
the menu. Cards made after that card will have the menu. BUT on OS X entering 
or leaving the range of cards with the menu will resize the height of the 
stack - usually 20 pixels, but sometimes 40 or 60 or??? sometimes plus 
sometimes  
 minus.
You could copy the menu to each card in the stack.
Don't add the menu group to the regular background group - trust me, much 
misery.
The best thing, in my experience the only truly reliable thing, is to reduce 
you stack to a single card, add the menus, rebuild the stack.
I wish this was documented - at least, part of Jeanne's excellent conference 
on menus.
This has been messing up new users for at least two years, it is time 
SOMETHING is done about it!
Paul Looney
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Re: add menu-background vanishes

[J. Landman Gay]

Rich Lague wrote:
> Thanks Jacqueline,
>
> I finally got it to work when I reduced the number of cards in the
> stack. It was a stack with more than 500 cards. When I deleted all but 9
> cards and created a menu, I saw my background moved about halfway down
> the screen.
>
> Does the menu builder move the existing objects down further when there
> are more cards in the stack?

The number of cards shouldn't make any difference. But it does take some 
time to go through 500 cards to check each one for card objects that 
need to be moved. It may be that you didn't wait long enough for the 
process to finish, so it looked like nothing was happening.


I'm not sure why your objects should have moved halfway down the card 
though; usually the menu builder only pushes things down about 26 pixels 
(or maybe it's 22, I can't remember.) Unless your stack is really, 
really short, the existing objects shouldn't have moved so far.


--
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RE: Updating menus (was Re: Clipboard madness)

[MisterX]

Thanks for separating the thread issues... They are not the same...

Regarding this, all you need is to check whenever you get a resume 
message or eventually a pastekey command...

no polling required! 

My feeling is that if your "stack" (we're talking ide environment and it's
stacks, not an application) is that menus shortcuts (managed by rev's
engine) should pass the message if none of the local menus do not handle it.
If you disable the paste menu (because the user is not in a stack's fields),
the message box should still work to paste!

This still doesn't explain why the script editor looses the "menubar
shortcuts'" focus... 

My guess is that the window mode of the script editor (ranted on or
bugzillaed before) doesn't help... Or something is not watching correctly
where the user's focus is and which menu is tied to that focus... 

X
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard Gaskin
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:23 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Updating menus (was Re: Clipboard madness)


I've taken the liberty of renamin this thread, as it ultimately seems more
related to enabling/disabling menu items (and hence their associated
keyboard shortcuts) than the workings of the Clipboard itself.  For
thread-name purists, please forgive.

This issue is critical for all designers who want to make HIG-compliant
apps, and in a way it's good news that Rev's IDE is adversely affected as it
raises the visibility of the issue.

The challenge with updating menu items is making sure you trap all possible
things that might affect them.

Some are easier than others.  For example, if your interface allows the user
to cut text, then you know that you should enable the Paste item when that
happens.

But if the user has text on the Clipboard from another app, how does your
app know without something horribly inefficient like polling?

It might be nice to have a clipboardChanged message -- would that be
appropriate, or overkill?

What other changes or additions to the language might we see to simplify
updating menu items?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
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Re: Updating menus (was Re: Clipboard madness)

[Ken Ray]

On 9/22/05 3:22 PM, "Richard Gaskin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> But if the user has text on the Clipboard from another app, how does
> your app know without something horribly inefficient like polling?

Well, you could check the clilpboard on resumeStack...


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Building Standalones with Panther/Tiger

[Malte Brill]

Hi Peter,

>When I double-click on a Panther-built copy on a Tiger machine the
>dock twitches briefly as if it's about to show the program icon and
>then nothing.

Stupid question: How do you transfer the apps from one computer to the 
other? Are you using stuff-it to pack it before transfer? Have you 
tried a memory stick or CD-R with an uncompressed app? I have seen that 
behaviour with a broken stuff-it version before (Jaguar/Panther in that 
case).


All the best,

Malte

---
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Re: add menu-background vanishes

[J. Landman Gay]

Rich Lague wrote:

I have an intermittent problem with the menu builder:

When I go to create a menu bar, on a stack that does not yet have one, 
my card background (and all the controls on it), disappears. I have not 
been able to figure out how to get it back. I end up 'reverting to 
saved'. It doesn't seem to happen to all stacks.


The cards go blank the second I click OK to create a new menu.

Anyone know what's going on?


Just guessing, but it might be due to the way Rev pushes all existing 
objects downward to make room for the new menu bar group. If your stack 
is very short, it could look like the objects disappeared when really 
they have just been pushed below the visible portion of the window. If 
you resize the stack to be taller do your objects appear?


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Re: add menu-background vanishes

[Rich Lague]

Thanks Jacqueline,

I finally got it to work when I reduced the number of cards in the 
stack. It was a stack with more than 500 cards. When I deleted all but 
9 cards and created a menu, I saw my background moved about halfway 
down the screen.


Does the menu builder move the existing objects down further when there 
are more cards in the stack?


Rich Lague

On Thursday, September 22, 2005, at 11:50  AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:


Rich Lague wrote:

I have an intermittent problem with the menu builder:
When I go to create a menu bar, on a stack that does not yet have 
one, my card background (and all the controls on it), disappears. I 
have not been able to figure out how to get it back. I end up 
'reverting to saved'. It doesn't seem to happen to all stacks.

The cards go blank the second I click OK to create a new menu.
Anyone know what's going on?


Just guessing, but it might be due to the way Rev pushes all existing 
objects downward to make room for the new menu bar group. If your 
stack is very short, it could look like the objects disappeared when 
really they have just been pushed below the visible portion of the 
window. If you resize the stack to be taller do your objects appear?


--
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HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Updating menus (was Re: Clipboard madness)

[Richard Gaskin]

I've taken the liberty of renamin this thread, as it ultimately seems 
more related to enabling/disabling menu items (and hence their 
associated keyboard shortcuts) than the workings of the Clipboard 
itself.  For thread-name purists, please forgive.


This issue is critical for all designers who want to make HIG-compliant 
apps, and in a way it's good news that Rev's IDE is adversely affected 
as it raises the visibility of the issue.


The challenge with updating menu items is making sure you trap all 
possible things that might affect them.


Some are easier than others.  For example, if your interface allows the 
user to cut text, then you know that you should enable the Paste item 
when that happens.


But if the user has text on the Clipboard from another app, how does 
your app know without something horribly inefficient like polling?


It might be nice to have a clipboardChanged message -- would that be 
appropriate, or overkill?


What other changes or additions to the language might we see to simplify 
updating menu items?


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 Managing Editor, revJournal
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Re: Tiger breaks hyperCard?

[Richard Gaskin]

Ken Norris wrote:
Note: HyperCard is the one-and-only software item I run in Classic 
today. I use its Color Tools because, albeit it lacks some features, 
it's still has the fastest, most intuitive paint tools, for cranking out 
graphical artwork parts, on the planet.


How would you characterize the benefits of the HC color tools over Rev's 
tools?


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Re: Clipboard madness

[Richard Gaskin]

MisterX wrote:

put the clipboarddata["text"] -- contains the right information

while 


put clipboarddata["html"] -- is definitely wrong and should not be
trusted...


In what way is it wrong?

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Re: Building Standalones with Panther/Tiger

[Devin Asay]

On Sep 22, 2005, at 1:14 PM, Peter Reid wrote:

I haven't observed that problem here. I routinely build apps on  
Tiger and deploy on Panther. Could you give us more details about  
the app you're trying to build?


Devin



I'm building an app that uses AppleScript to control an FM Pro  
database on the same machine.  I'm not using any external or  
special resources of any kind.


The first thing I would suspect is differences in AppleScript between  
Panther and Tiger. Can you compile and run standalones on the  
different OS versions if the AppleScript parts are commented out?


When I double-click on a Panther-built copy on a Tiger machine the  
dock twitches briefly as if it's about to show the program icon and  
then nothing.  If I build the standalone on the Tiger system and  
double-click again it opens normally!


I get exactly the same effect the other way round on a Panther  
system, i.e. trying to run a Tiger-built copy.


Both the Tiger and Panther app packages contain:
   Contents
  Info.plist
  MacOS
 AssessmentCapture
  PkgInfo
  PlugIns
 coreimage_support.bundle
  Resources
 Revolution.icns
 RevolutionDoc.icns

and the file sizes are identical.

If I run my Rev stack from within Rev itself, it works identically,  
without any problems, on both Tiger and Panther.  It's only as a  
standalone that I get this behaviour?!


Peter
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Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University

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Re: FTP gotcha - how do you ignore a socket error?

[Jim Ault]

Thanks Dave, and the anwer that works for now
on socketError theID, theError
  close socket theID
end socketError
...in order to be sure, and the action loop is 20+ seconds
When I tighten the event loop, I may have to get more creative.

Jim

On 9/21/05 1:11 PM, "Dave Cragg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> On 21 Sep 2005, at 20:44, Jim Ault wrote:
> 
>> I am working on two trusted computers, getting a successful file
>> transfer,
>> but then the following error on the Windows client (Mac OSX Jaguar
>> ftp host)
>> about 8 seconds later
>> ---
>> 226 Transfer complete.
>> QUIT
>> 221-
>> Data traffic for this session was 1700 bytes in 1 file.socket error
>> 24.234.190.204:21|6930
>> Error 10053 on socket
>> Total traffic for this session was 2342 bytes in 1 transfer.221
>> Thank you for using the FTP service on localhost.
>> CLOSED 24.234.190.204:21|6930
>> CLOSED 24.234.190.204:21|6930
>> -
>> 
>> Client > Win XP Pro, McAffee, Rev 2.5.1  (plus compiled versions)
>> 
>> Firewall FTP 21-22 was tried as [ON + OFF = same error] [McAffee]
>> compiled app was registered as trusted source [McAffee]
>> host static IP registered as trusted IP [McAffee]
>> 
>> The transfer is good, and I would like to just ignore the error and
>> let a
>> loop continue about once every 60 seconds.
> 
> I think you can probably ignore it. (The 226 line signals the end of
> the transaction.) But things like that make me nervous. :-)
> 
> "Error 10053 on socket" is a Windows error, and means something on
> the local computer caused the connection to close.
> 
> Something you might want to check. The ftp QUIT command is issued by
> libUrl if, after a transaction completes, there is no activity on the
> socket for 15 seconds. In case there is something on your machine
> that doesn't like the socket remaining unused for so long, you can
> change the delay to less than 15 seconds by using libUrlSetFTPStopTime.
> 
> libUrlSetFTPStopTime 2 ## put somewhere before your ftp call
> 
> This will reduce the delay to 2 seconds.
> 
> You might want to see if it makes a difference.
> 
> Cheers
> Dave
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Re: AppleScript - Silent Running?

[Peter Reid]

At 7:38 am -0700 22/9/2005, Jim Ault wrote:

you are correct about the 'server'.. it was a headless client that fed data
and processed reports for the office, running a FMkr client app.
Applescript coordinated the email, web, FMkr, Excel, and Word apps to
produce an integrated solution without regard to screen flashing and user
interface.

Jim Ault


At 7:58 am -0700 22/9/2005, Jim Ault wrote:

google > " applescript remote" >  a bunch of links, some rather old.

'Tell' blocks can accept URLs in the 'machine' parameter, allowing
AppleScript control of remote applications via TCP/IP as of OS 9 in Nov '99

You can run a remote Applescript in Terminal
Check out the 'osascript' shell command.

http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/ct/47 [several topics]
Controlling Your Mac with AppleScript and Java
A tutorial on how to use AppleScript and Java together to automate your ...
 the power of AppleScript to make a remote control center for any
AppleScriptable apps

Jim Ault


Thanks for the links, I'll do some digging around!

Peter

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Re: Building Standalones with Panther/Tiger

[Peter Reid]

I haven't observed that problem here. I routinely build apps on 
Tiger and deploy on Panther. Could you give us more details about 
the app you're trying to build?


Devin


I'm building an app that uses AppleScript to control an FM Pro 
database on the same machine.  I'm not using any external or special 
resources of any kind.


When I double-click on a Panther-built copy on a Tiger machine the 
dock twitches briefly as if it's about to show the program icon and 
then nothing.  If I build the standalone on the Tiger system and 
double-click again it opens normally!


I get exactly the same effect the other way round on a Panther 
system, i.e. trying to run a Tiger-built copy.


Both the Tiger and Panther app packages contain:
   Contents
  Info.plist
  MacOS
 AssessmentCapture
  PkgInfo
  PlugIns
 coreimage_support.bundle
  Resources
 Revolution.icns
 RevolutionDoc.icns

and the file sizes are identical.

If I run my Rev stack from within Rev itself, it works identically, 
without any problems, on both Tiger and Panther.  It's only as a 
standalone that I get this behaviour?!


Peter
--
Peter Reid
Reid-IT Limited, Loughborough, Leics., UK
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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RE: Clipboard madness

[MisterX]

that's still doesn't explain why you can't:

- copy from a stack with no menubar and when the revmenubar is there
- use the script editors menu shortcuts when you are in the script editor
- why copy wont work with control-c or control-ins - there's only one
stack...
- why other rev shortcuts work when the revmenu doesn't (there's a
backscript called revshortcuts but it doesn't help)
- why it's not enough to activate a window with a menubar but you actually
have to click in the menu to make it listen to your shortkeys (script editor
eg)

sorry, but I got the hardened fingers to prove this anyway you want...
Is this working wrong only on PCs maybe again? 

Xavier

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of J. Landman Gay
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 8:47 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Clipboard madness

MisterX wrote:

> there's no passing of the control key if you have a menubar that 
> doesn’t handle it while this is a rev-command. This would have never 
> failed in hypercard as I remember the good old days...

Exactly, and that is how it should work. If I have a custom menu bar and I
have disabled or omitted the "copy" command, that means I do not want to
allow copying. It would be a bug if copying was active in this case.

Control/command key shortcuts are intended to initiate menu functions. 
If you want the ability to use them, then include those functions in your
menus. I don't see any bug here.

HyperCard was different because it had no "real" menus. They were all
simulated, and all keystrokes eventually made their way to the engine if
they were not trapped. This made HyperCard standalones behave differently
than other applications. Revolution's implementation is more consistent and
allows stack authors to script reliable menu behavior.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Clipboard madness

[J. Landman Gay]

MisterX wrote:


there's no passing of the control key if you have a menubar that doesn’t
handle it while this is a rev-command. This would have never failed in
hypercard as I remember the good old days...


Exactly, and that is how it should work. If I have a custom menu bar and 
I have disabled or omitted the "copy" command, that means I do not want 
to allow copying. It would be a bug if copying was active in this case.


Control/command key shortcuts are intended to initiate menu functions. 
If you want the ability to use them, then include those functions in 
your menus. I don't see any bug here.


HyperCard was different because it had no "real" menus. They were all 
simulated, and all keystrokes eventually made their way to the engine if 
they were not trapped. This made HyperCard standalones behave 
differently than other applications. Revolution's implementation is more 
consistent and allows stack authors to script reliable menu behavior.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: AppleScript - Silent Running?

[Ken Ray]

On 9/22/05 9:58 AM, "Jim Ault" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> You can run a remote Applescript in Terminal

You can also run it in the Script Editor and from Rev; you just need to make
sure you have Remote Events turned on in the Sharing control panel (I
believe), and then include the IP address with the tell command.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: add menu-background vanishes

[Rich Lague]

I just tried it with a new simple stack, and my background group did 
not disappear. So, it must be something about my stack. And it must be 
something I put in a variety of stacks because this is not the first 
time I have had this problem.


When it happens the Application Browser shows the background and all 
the controls as still present. I have suspected that it is a layer 
problem, but when I try to change the layer of my background (layer 1) 
the arrows are greyed out in the size & position inspector box.


I'm using Rev 2.6 in system 10.2.8 on a Mac.

Thanks!

Rich


On Thursday, September 22, 2005, at 11:10  AM, MisterX wrote:


that's a new twist!

what version of rev? platform/OS?

please try to help us help you out...

can you replicate it in a new simple stack?

I haven't seen this one yet!

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rich 
Lague

Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 8:05 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: add menu-background vanishes

I have an intermittent problem with the menu builder:

When I go to create a menu bar, on a stack that does not yet have one, 
my
card background (and all the controls on it), disappears. I have not 
been
able to figure out how to get it back. I end up 'reverting to saved'. 
It

doesn't seem to happen to all stacks.

The cards go blank the second I click OK to create a new menu.

Anyone know what's going on?

Thanks,

Rich Lague

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RE: The Deadly Sins

[MisterX]

you forgot rule X

only petac'hs companies release software without challenges for their
support teams or users...

cheers
X

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ken Norris
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 7:11 PM
To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Subject: Re: The Deadly Sins


Never mind -- I found it -- see below.

> Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 21:12:05 -0700
> From: Mark Wieder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: The Deadly Sin

I previously wrote:

What about Klingon Coding practices?

Say, where are those anyway? I can't find them :-/  I remember I tipped over
my office chair and fell on the floor because of laughing so hard.

Here the list -- from Xavier:


•   Previous message: REV and multimedia
•   Next message: mission critical apps; was Re: cross platform
ide
•   Messages sorted by:  [ date ]  [ thread ]  [ subject ]  [
author ]
While you all debate the pros and con of win/mac/lin and the rest...

Top 12 Things A Klingon Programmer Would Say
12. Specifications are for the weak and timid!
11. This machine is a piece of GAGH! I need dual Pentium processors 
if I am to
do battle with this code!
10. You cannot really appreciate Dilbert unless you've read it in 
the original
Klingon.
9.  Indentation?! -- I will show you how to indent when I indent 
your skull!
8.  What is this talk of 'release'? Klingons do not make software 
'releases'.
Our software 'escapes' leaving a bloody trail of designers and quality
assurance people in its wake.
7.  Klingon function calls do not have 'parameters' -- they have 
'arguments'
-- and they ALWAYS WIN THEM. 
6.  Debugging? Klingons do not debug. Our software does not coddle 
the weak.
5.  I have challenged the entire quality assurance team to a 
Bat-Leth contest.
They will not concern us again.
4.  A TRUE Klingon Warrior does not comment his code!
3.  By filing this SPR you have challenged the honor of my family. 
Prepare to
die!
2.  You question the worthiness of my code? I should kill you where 
you stand!

1.  Our users will know fear and cower before our software. Ship 
it! Ship it,
and let them flee like the dogs they are!

Cheerios
Xavier
==

All the best,
Ken N.
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RE: add menu-background vanishes

[MisterX]

that's a new twist!

what version of rev? platform/OS?

please try to help us help you out... 

can you replicate it in a new simple stack? 

I haven't seen this one yet!

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rich Lague
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 8:05 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: add menu-background vanishes

I have an intermittent problem with the menu builder:

When I go to create a menu bar, on a stack that does not yet have one, my
card background (and all the controls on it), disappears. I have not been
able to figure out how to get it back. I end up 'reverting to saved'. It
doesn't seem to happen to all stacks.

The cards go blank the second I click OK to create a new menu.

Anyone know what's going on?

Thanks,

Rich Lague

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add menu-background vanishes

[Rich Lague]

I have an intermittent problem with the menu builder:

When I go to create a menu bar, on a stack that does not yet have one, 
my card background (and all the controls on it), disappears. I have not 
been able to figure out how to get it back. I end up 'reverting to 
saved'. It doesn't seem to happen to all stacks.


The cards go blank the second I click OK to create a new menu.

Anyone know what's going on?

Thanks,

Rich Lague

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RE: Clipboard madness

[MisterX]

the problem is that control-m doesn't work most of the time until I click on
the rev menubar... 

in 2.6

I click on the windows task bar on rev, click on control-m, control-v and it
works (but notice that paste still doesn't get it right). I go back to my
email client, click on an open stack in rev (not the rev menubar), control-m
- doesn't work anymore...

there's no passing of the control key if you have a menubar that doesn’t
handle it while this is a rev-command. This would have never failed in
hypercard as I remember the good old days... 

It's not the "startup rev" sequence where it doesn't work. it's when you
work in rev all day it fails constantly to do the hotkey reliably... My rev
sessions are usually opened for days or weeks managing things at work or at
home... For me, it is the application...

So when you say it's in the active menubar... why does it still not work in
the script editor? There's lots of issues with non-mode-1 stacks too with
this...

cheers
Xavier

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alex Tweedly
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 7:50 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Clipboard madness

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> I wrote ...
>
>>You may have decided that because of a bug whereby the IDE would not 
>>cut/paste unless (or until) there was a script editor window open. 
>>Sorry
>>
>>
>>don't know the bug number and a (very) quick search didn't find it. 
>>But it is fixed in 2.6 !! so give it a try now.
>>
>>
>
>No, this is definitely not fixed! Not in 2.6, not in 2.62...
>
>  
>
*This* definitely is fixed; there may be (in fact, clearly there are) other
related or similar problems that are not fixed - but the one I was
describing is definitely fixed.

Here's a recipe which reliably works in 2.6, and reliably fails in 2.5 and
2.2

Go into an editor - any editor - and copy some test into the clipboard.
Start up Rev
Hit Ctrl-M to open message box
Hit Ctrl-V to paste.

Fails every time in 2.5, works every time in 2.6

In 2.5 you could open (and then close if you wanted) a script editor and
pasting would *sometimes* then work.

>The trick is that if the menubar which is currently active doesn't have 
>a copy command, it wont work - so yes you have to script that but even 
>in the script editor which is the active window and which has this copy 
>command, 80% of the time, i have to "activate the menubar" or it wont 
>work even though i am working in that field! Same for comment scripts, 
>etc...
>  
>
In my problem / description / recipe, the active menubar is the main menu
bar, which contains the copy, paste commands.

>We know, you should waste half an hour reseting your preferences - but 
>that's useless, the problem comes back again in less than a week...
>
>The real trick for missing copy/paste commands is to click once in the 
>menu of the script editor or the revmenubar and THEN the menu shortcut 
>will work (is that the fix in 2.6 you're refering to?)!
>
>  
>
Nope - see above.

-- 
Alex Tweedly   http://www.tweedly.net


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Re: Clipboard madness

[Alex Tweedly]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


I wrote ...

You may have decided that because of a bug whereby the IDE would not 
cut/paste unless (or until) there was a script editor window open. Sorry 
   

don't know the bug number and a (very) quick search didn't find it. But 
it is fixed in 2.6 !! so give it a try now.
   



No, this is definitely not fixed! Not in 2.6, not in 2.62...

 

*This* definitely is fixed; there may be (in fact, clearly there are) 
other related or similar problems that are not fixed - but the one I was 
describing is definitely fixed.


Here's a recipe which reliably works in 2.6, and reliably fails in 2.5 
and 2.2


Go into an editor - any editor - and copy some test into the clipboard.
Start up Rev
Hit Ctrl-M to open message box
Hit Ctrl-V to paste.

Fails every time in 2.5, works every time in 2.6

In 2.5 you could open (and then close if you wanted) a script editor and 
pasting would *sometimes* then work.


The trick is that if the menubar which is currently active doesn't have a 
copy 
command, it wont work - so yes you have to script that but even in the 
script 
editor which is the active window and which has this copy command, 80% of 
the
time, i have to "activate the menubar" or it wont work even though i am 
working

in that field! Same for comment scripts, etc...
 

In my problem / description / recipe, the active menubar is the main 
menu bar, which contains the copy, paste commands.


We know, you should waste half an hour reseting your preferences - but 
that's 
useless, the problem comes back again in less than a week...


The real trick for missing copy/paste commands is to click once in the 
menu 
of the script editor or the revmenubar and THEN the menu shortcut will 
work 
(is that the fix in 2.6 you're refering to?)! 

 


Nope - see above.

--
Alex Tweedly   http://www.tweedly.net

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.3/107 - Release Date: 20/09/2005
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RE: Clipboard madness

[MisterX]

I identified the real problem with this clipboard problem...

again, doing rev's beta tester's job...

Who-ever wrote the html compatibility code in rev should be wipped like a
petach d'mes deux!

put the clipboarddata["text"] -- contains the right information

while 

put clipboarddata["html"] -- is definitely wrong and should not be
trusted...

Yet another case of the RevHTMLtranslation going wrong...
Fields, Clipboard, entity characters...

on pastekey
  imagine easy script to fix a 4 year old problem...
end pastekey

I just keep adding to HotKeyNO2 all the missing features of rev ;)

cheers
Xavier


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 11:23 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Clipboard madness

Yesterday i was BATTLING against a stack who wouldn't copy paste information
from a field to ultraedit... I tried all keyboard combos, and even the menu
- just i wouldn't copy anything... maybe it's due to the environment i run
this into: it runs on a windows 2003 server which has 4 metaframes opened,
4-8 RDP windows (terminal services), Notes (biggest crap mail client you
could find in the galaxy), and FireFox (who doesn't know how to copy paste
any better...). I managed to make this work via a button: select text of fld
x, copy!

So why doesn't the menu or keycombos work?

Today, when i copy the line from any program

emcacl \\server\fs$\userprog\xxx /t /c /y /q /g "SYSTEM":F
"OAAD\xxx":C

and paste it into a field (or scripteditor) and what i get is:

emcacl $\\/t /c /y /q /g "SYSTEM":F "OAAD\":C

Tested in Rev 2.6, Metacard 2.62...

3rd bugzilla entry today... Rev should sponsor those who do their
beta-testing - but i get the feeling this is an persistent problem ;)

The big question: Is this in windows only? 

I'd like to see if any of you Mac users also have this problem before i
enlarge further the zilla list ;)

If this was a compiler problem, how many sins would it imply? ;D

cheers
Xavier


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RE: The Deadly Sins

[MisterX]

HEY, you signed that Xavier Impostor you! :D

and while reading before noticing my name I thought:

ut that's pretty much how rev has done so far with my 
support's requests and debugging efforts appreciation! ;) 

cheers
MonsieurX.com

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ken Norris
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 7:11 PM
To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Subject: Re: The Deadly Sins


Never mind -- I found it -- see below.

> Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 21:12:05 -0700
> From: Mark Wieder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: The Deadly Sin

I previously wrote:

What about Klingon Coding practices?

Say, where are those anyway? I can't find them :-/  I remember I tipped over
my office chair and fell on the floor because of laughing so hard.

Here the list -- from Xavier:


•   Previous message: REV and multimedia
•   Next message: mission critical apps; was Re: cross platform
ide
•   Messages sorted by:  [ date ]  [ thread ]  [ subject ]  [
author ]
While you all debate the pros and con of win/mac/lin and the rest...

Top 12 Things A Klingon Programmer Would Say
12. Specifications are for the weak and timid!
11. This machine is a piece of GAGH! I need dual Pentium processors 
if I am to
do battle with this code!
10. You cannot really appreciate Dilbert unless you've read it in 
the original
Klingon.
9.  Indentation?! -- I will show you how to indent when I indent 
your skull!
8.  What is this talk of 'release'? Klingons do not make software 
'releases'.
Our software 'escapes' leaving a bloody trail of designers and quality
assurance people in its wake.
7.  Klingon function calls do not have 'parameters' -- they have 
'arguments'
-- and they ALWAYS WIN THEM. 
6.  Debugging? Klingons do not debug. Our software does not coddle 
the weak.
5.  I have challenged the entire quality assurance team to a 
Bat-Leth contest.
They will not concern us again.
4.  A TRUE Klingon Warrior does not comment his code!
3.  By filing this SPR you have challenged the honor of my family. 
Prepare to
die!
2.  You question the worthiness of my code? I should kill you where 
you stand!

1.  Our users will know fear and cower before our software. Ship 
it! Ship it,
and let them flee like the dogs they are!

Cheerios
Xavier
==

All the best,
Ken N.
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Re: Tiger breaks hyperCard?

[SimPLsol]

When the IntelMacs are introduced things should actually get better (short 
term) for   us HyperCard users. There will be good used and "refurbished" G4 
and 
G5 computers available for many years as people upgrade to the new hardware.
HyperCard runs really well (and really fast) on today's G5 PowerMac!
I don't believe our customers will be needing anything faster for a long 
time.
Paul Looney
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Re: The Deadly Sins

[Ken Norris]

Howdy,

On Sep 22, 2005, at 10:00 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:



Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:11:29 -0700
From: Ken Norris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The Deadly Sins


Hmmm. Appears to be more than one version of Klingon coding.

Would 'compiling' them both cause an intergalactic incident?

;-)

All the best,
Ken N.

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RE: The Deadly Sins

[MisterX]

petac'h OS changes... 

Note petac'h, the klingon word for looser, coward, or wimpy is commonly
mispelled as petach (which would sound as petash or petatch (like detach)
while the real pronunciation is petakhhh (like pet+throat burning ach from
german - like ich) - prounouncing the h a la dutch without rolling throaty
sounds please) - search "petach klingon" for a meaning if you're not a
trekkie.

pfff and I blamed MS of being a petac'h company because they also changed
behaviors in registry structures or shell commands at each release... im
glad im not the only one affected with 3 different NT versions of scripts
required to run something on my servers ;)

Deadly sin: you can't compile the user's complaints or language as compiler
faults, yet all speak english... ;)

Check out SpellNO2 when it comes out soon... 14 languages proofable now!

It spell checks klingon too - and im not kidding - though the dictionary is
still in the works!
Rev is also now the best klingon development tool this side of the galaxy!

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com - klingon tools too in rev


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ken Norris
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 7:00 PM
To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Subject: Re: The Deadly Sins

Hi Mark,

On Sep 21, 2005, at 11:06 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

> Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 21:12:05 -0700
> From: Mark Wieder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: The Deadly Sins
>
> Sinners-
>
> I've had this filed away for a while and just rediscovered it...
>
> http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~nr/sins.html

What about Klingon Coding practices?

Say, where are those anyway? I can't find them :-/  I remember I tipped over
my office chair and fell on the floor because of laughing so hard.

All the best,
Ken N.

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Re: The Deadly Sins

[Ken Norris]

Never mind -- I found it -- see below.


Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 21:12:05 -0700
From: Mark Wieder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: The Deadly Sin


I previously wrote:

What about Klingon Coding practices?

Say, where are those anyway? I can't find them :-/  I remember I tipped 
over my office chair and fell on the floor because of laughing so hard.


Here the list -- from Xavier:


•   Previous message: REV and multimedia
•   Next message: mission critical apps; was Re: cross platform ide
•   Messages sorted by:  [ date ]  [ thread ]  [ subject ]  [ 
author ]
While you all debate the pros and con of win/mac/lin and the rest...

Top 12 Things A Klingon Programmer Would Say
12. Specifications are for the weak and timid!
11. This machine is a piece of GAGH! I need dual Pentium processors 
if I am to

do battle with this code!
10. You cannot really appreciate Dilbert unless you've read it in 
the original

Klingon.
9.  Indentation?! -- I will show you how to indent when I indent 
your skull!
8.  What is this talk of 'release'? Klingons do not make software 
'releases'.

Our software 'escapes' leaving a bloody trail of designers and quality
assurance people in its wake.
7.  Klingon function calls do not have 'parameters' -- they have 
'arguments'
-- and they ALWAYS WIN THEM. 
6.  Debugging? Klingons do not debug. Our software does not coddle 
the weak.
5.  I have challenged the entire quality assurance team to a 
Bat-Leth contest.

They will not concern us again.
4.  A TRUE Klingon Warrior does not comment his code!
3.  By filing this SPR you have challenged the honor of my family. 
Prepare to

die!
2.  You question the worthiness of my code? I should kill you where 
you stand!


1.  Our users will know fear and cower before our software. Ship 
it! Ship it,

and let them flee like the dogs they are!

Cheerios
Xavier
==

All the best,
Ken N.
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RE: The Deadly Sins

[Lynch, Jonathan]

Very funny...

If I may add one...


I shall slay the dogs that left Klingon Script out of Unicode!



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gordon
Tillman
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:05 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: The Deadly Sins


On Sep 22, 2005, at 12:00, Ken Norris wrote:

> Hi Mark,
>
> On Sep 21, 2005, at 11:06 PM, use-revolution- 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>
>> Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 21:12:05 -0700
>> From: Mark Wieder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Subject: The Deadly Sins
>>
>> Sinners-
>>
>> I've had this filed away for a while and just rediscovered it...
>>
>> http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~nr/sins.html
>>
>
> What about Klingon Coding practices?
>
> Say, where are those anyway? I can't find them :-/  I remember I  
> tipped over my office chair and fell on the floor because of  
> laughing so hard.

Top 10 things likely to be overheard if you had a Klingon Programmer:

A TRUE Klingon Warrior does not comment his code!
By filing this bug report you have challenged the honor of my family.  
Prepare to die!
You question the worthiness of my code? I should kill you where you  
stand!
Our competitors are without honor!
Specifications are for the weak and timid!
This machine is GAGH! I need dual Pentium processors if I am to do  
battle with this code!
Perhaps it IS a good day to die! I say we ship it!
Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship  
it and let them flee like the dogs they are!
My program has just dumped Stova Core!
Behold, the keyboard of Kalis! The greatest Klingon code warrior that  
ever lived!




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Re: The Deadly Sins

[Gordon Tillman]

On Sep 22, 2005, at 12:00, Ken Norris wrote:


Hi Mark,

On Sep 21, 2005, at 11:06 PM, use-revolution- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 21:12:05 -0700
From: Mark Wieder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: The Deadly Sins

Sinners-

I've had this filed away for a while and just rediscovered it...

http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~nr/sins.html



What about Klingon Coding practices?

Say, where are those anyway? I can't find them :-/  I remember I  
tipped over my office chair and fell on the floor because of  
laughing so hard.


Top 10 things likely to be overheard if you had a Klingon Programmer:

A TRUE Klingon Warrior does not comment his code!
By filing this bug report you have challenged the honor of my family.  
Prepare to die!
You question the worthiness of my code? I should kill you where you  
stand!

Our competitors are without honor!
Specifications are for the weak and timid!
This machine is GAGH! I need dual Pentium processors if I am to do  
battle with this code!

Perhaps it IS a good day to die! I say we ship it!
Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship  
it and let them flee like the dogs they are!

My program has just dumped Stova Core!
Behold, the keyboard of Kalis! The greatest Klingon code warrior that  
ever lived!





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Re: The Deadly Sins

[Ken Norris]

Hi Mark,

On Sep 21, 2005, at 11:06 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:



Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 21:12:05 -0700
From: Mark Wieder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: The Deadly Sins

Sinners-

I've had this filed away for a while and just rediscovered it...

http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~nr/sins.html


What about Klingon Coding practices?

Say, where are those anyway? I can't find them :-/  I remember I tipped 
over my office chair and fell on the floor because of laughing so hard.


All the best,
Ken N.

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Re: Tiger breaks hyperCard?

[Ken Norris]

Hello Pierre, Charles, et al,


Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 19:57:08 +0200
From: Pierre Sahores <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Tiger breaks hyperCard?


Hi,

HC 2.4.1 is still working as expected under Tiger 10.4.2 / Classic /
PWB G4 there.

Best,

Le 21 sept. 05 à 18:00, Charles Hartman a écrit :


Well, I think the point is that _Classic_ is on the verge of not
being supported any more.


As to the last comment from Charles, according to Apple VP Phil 
Schiller, I'd say that there is probably some truth to that, but it's 
not so imminent. However, I wouldn't expect Classic to be upgraded any 
more than it is right now, if that's what is meant by "supported".


I.e., any G4 or even G5 system running OSX will probably continue to 
support Classic as it is, but OS X86 systems which will run on the 
Intel-based lowend Macs (but may include both iB's and PB's because PPC 
has not come up with G5 chips for them) coming out next year -- 
probably not.


IOW, if you buy a PPC-based machine, you should be good to go running 
Classic until Apple's entire line switches to Intel-based, and then 
after that, until you decide to buy one. Could easily be 5 years for 
many of us.


Note: HyperCard is the one-and-only software item I run in Classic 
today. I use its Color Tools because, albeit it lacks some features, 
it's still has the fastest, most intuitive paint tools, for cranking 
out graphical artwork parts, on the planet.


All the best,
Ken N.

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RE: Clipboard madness

[Lynch, Jonathan]

I have a stack in which the user can copy from a field to another
program.

I scripted for this in a rawkeydown handler in the stack script. It also
required modifying ctrl-P to avoid certain problems. Here is the
relevant code:

on rawkeydown pKey
  if the selectedfield = empty then pass rawkeydown
  if pKey = 65288 and word 4 of the selectedchunk = 0 then
set the linktext of the selectedchunk to empty
set the textfont of the selectedchunk to empty
set the textstyle of the selectedchunk to empty
set the textcolor of the selectedchunk to empty
set the textsize of the selectedchunk to empty
  else if pKey = 65289 and the commandkey is down then
put tab into the selection
exit rawkeydown
  else if pKey = 46 and the commandkey is down then
put "*" into the selection
  else if (pKey = 99 or pKey = 67) and the commandkey is down then
if the selectedfield <> empty then 
  put the selection into tSel
  put the htmltext of the selection into tSelHtml
  set the clipboarddata["text"] to tSel
  set the clipboarddata["html"] to tSelHtml
  select the selectedchunk
  exit rawkeydown
end if
  else if (pKey = 88 or pKey = 120) and the commandkey is down then
if the selectedfield <> empty then 
  put the selection into tSel
  put the htmltext of the selection into tSelHtml
  set the clipboarddata["text"] to tSel
  set the clipboarddata["html"] to tSelHtml
  delete the selectedchunk
  exit rawkeydown
end if
  else if ((pKey = 86 or pKey = 118) and the commandkey is down) or
(pKey = 65379) then
if the selectedfield <> empty then 
  put the clipboarddata["html"] into tSelHtml
  put the clipboarddata["text"] into tSel
  put the number of characters in tSel into tNumChar
  put word 2 of the selectedchunk into tStartChar
  if tSelHtml <> empty and the shiftkey is not down then
set the htmltext of the selection to tSelHtml
  else if tSel <> empty then
put tSel into the selection
  end if
  
  put tStartChar+tNumChar-1 into tNewSelChar
  select after character tNewSelChar of the selectedfield
  exit rawkeydown
end if

  end if
   
  pass rawkeydown
end rawkeydown

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MisterX
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 12:20 PM
To: 'How to use Revolution'
Subject: RE: Clipboard madness

ROTFL... I had to check what Glaswegian meant so I pasted it in SpellNO2
and
had that meaning in 2 seconds!

Ah! Most probably not. I think it's because rev developpers do not "have
to"
use a PC daily... 

Kevin's time in hell might be to use Rev on a PC to make mac stacks as
im
trying for now 3 weeks with SpellNO2... 

In the past 5 years I've used MC at work, it's been clipboard HELL! The
most
basic computer feature since the Mac will not work on PCs... 

BTW, copy of these types of lines DOES work otherwise, I would have quit
MC
4 years ago... 
Rev/MC is just the best scriptable text generator, manipulator there is!

cheers
Xavier

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles
Hartman
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 5:59 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Clipboard madness

Glaswegian?

Charles Hartman


On Sep 22, 2005, at 10:55 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Quoting Alex Tweedly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
>>>
>>>
 Yesterday i was BATTLING against a stack who wouldn't copy paste 
 information from a field to ultraedit... I tried all keyboard 
 combos, and even the menu - just i wouldn't copy 
 anything...[snip]copy!

>>>
>>>
>>> I've never been able to copy from a stack field to another field via

>>> ctrl-c ctrl-v.
>>>
>>> I jst always assumed you had to script it?
>>>
>>>
>> You may have decided that because of a bug whereby the IDE would not 
>> cut/paste unless (or until) there was a script editor window open. 
>> Sorry don't know the bug number and a (very) quick search didn't find

>> it. But it is fixed in 2.6 !! so give it a try now.
>>
>>
>
> Bizarely I cant copy and past in my license for 2.6 and I'm stuck  
> with 2.5 on
> this computer. :-)
>
> I'll mail Heather about it when I get back from the "September  
> weekend". PS I'm
> not a weegie.
>
> PPS Appologies to the list if you don't know what a weegie is. I  
> beleive you are
> up the road near Oban Alex, so I assume you do. :-)
>
> All the best
> Bob; Rainy Glasgow
>
>
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RE: Clipboard madness

[MisterX]

ROTFL... I had to check what Glaswegian meant so I pasted it in SpellNO2 and
had that meaning in 2 seconds!

Ah! Most probably not. I think it's because rev developpers do not "have to"
use a PC daily... 

Kevin's time in hell might be to use Rev on a PC to make mac stacks as im
trying for now 3 weeks with SpellNO2... 

In the past 5 years I've used MC at work, it's been clipboard HELL! The most
basic computer feature since the Mac will not work on PCs... 

BTW, copy of these types of lines DOES work otherwise, I would have quit MC
4 years ago... 
Rev/MC is just the best scriptable text generator, manipulator there is!

cheers
Xavier

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles
Hartman
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 5:59 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Clipboard madness

Glaswegian?

Charles Hartman


On Sep 22, 2005, at 10:55 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Quoting Alex Tweedly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
>>>
>>>
 Yesterday i was BATTLING against a stack who wouldn't copy paste 
 information from a field to ultraedit... I tried all keyboard 
 combos, and even the menu - just i wouldn't copy 
 anything...[snip]copy!

>>>
>>>
>>> I've never been able to copy from a stack field to another field via 
>>> ctrl-c ctrl-v.
>>>
>>> I jst always assumed you had to script it?
>>>
>>>
>> You may have decided that because of a bug whereby the IDE would not 
>> cut/paste unless (or until) there was a script editor window open. 
>> Sorry don't know the bug number and a (very) quick search didn't find 
>> it. But it is fixed in 2.6 !! so give it a try now.
>>
>>
>
> Bizarely I cant copy and past in my license for 2.6 and I'm stuck  
> with 2.5 on
> this computer. :-)
>
> I'll mail Heather about it when I get back from the "September  
> weekend". PS I'm
> not a weegie.
>
> PPS Appologies to the list if you don't know what a weegie is. I  
> beleive you are
> up the road near Oban Alex, so I assume you do. :-)
>
> All the best
> Bob; Rainy Glasgow
>
>
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Re: CS Notification Center

[david bovill]

On 22 Sep 2005, at 08:27, Paul Claude wrote:

As I understand, this can be a method (other than applescript) to  
quickly

exchange informations within applications; i know that "other
application posts notifications to the distributed notification
center and your client program can register to receive them", but I  
don't

know, in my Rev client program, how to register and receive such
informations.


Why not do this over a chat type protocol - using sockets and  
datagrams - could use Bonjour to auto-discover the IP addresses needed?

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Re: Clipboard madness

[Charles Hartman]

Glaswegian?

Charles Hartman


On Sep 22, 2005, at 10:55 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Quoting Alex Tweedly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:



[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:



Yesterday i was BATTLING against a stack who wouldn't copy paste
information from a field to ultraedit... I tried all keyboard  
combos,

and even the menu - just i wouldn't copy anything...[snip]copy!




I've never been able to copy from a stack field to another field  
via ctrl-c

ctrl-v.

I jst always assumed you had to script it?


You may have decided that because of a bug whereby the IDE would  
not cut/paste unless (or until) there was a script editor window  
open. Sorry don't know the bug number and a (very) quick search  
didn't find it. But it is fixed in 2.6 !! so give it a try now.





Bizarely I cant copy and past in my license for 2.6 and I'm stuck  
with 2.5 on

this computer. :-)

I'll mail Heather about it when I get back from the "September  
weekend". PS I'm

not a weegie.

PPS Appologies to the list if you don't know what a weegie is. I  
beleive you are

up the road near Oban Alex, so I assume you do. :-)

All the best
Bob; Rainy Glasgow


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RE: Clipboard madness

[MisterX]

bugzilla 3137 for those who want to vote on it...

http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=3137 

For ONCE, rev has fixed more bugs than I've entered in a day ;)

3/13 and decreasing! Good job Mark!



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 11:23 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Clipboard madness

Yesterday i was BATTLING against a stack who wouldn't copy paste information
from a field to ultraedit... I tried all keyboard combos, and even the menu
- just i wouldn't copy anything... maybe it's due to the environment i run
this into: it runs on a windows 2003 server which has 4 metaframes opened,
4-8 RDP windows (terminal services), Notes (biggest crap mail client you
could find in the galaxy), and FireFox (who doesn't know how to copy paste
any better...). I managed to make this work via a button: select text of fld
x, copy!

So why doesn't the menu or keycombos work?

Today, when i copy the line from any program

emcacl \\server\fs$\userprog\xxx /t /c /y /q /g "SYSTEM":F
"OAAD\xxx":C

and paste it into a field (or scripteditor) and what i get is:

emcacl $\\/t /c /y /q /g "SYSTEM":F "OAAD\":C

Tested in Rev 2.6, Metacard 2.62...

3rd bugzilla entry today... Rev should sponsor those who do their
beta-testing - but i get the feeling this is an persistent problem ;)

The big question: Is this in windows only? 

I'd like to see if any of you Mac users also have this problem before i
enlarge further the zilla list ;)

If this was a compiler problem, how many sins would it imply? ;D

cheers
Xavier


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Re: The Deadly Sins

[Dan Shafer]

Yeah, I *know* that intellectually, but it always seemed to me that a  
sufficiently intelligent compiler could be designed that would be  
able to dope that out correctly a huge percentage of the time.


Besides, I like screaming at compilers at 3 a.m.

BTW and FWIW, in the last year or so that I was able to use Smalltalk  
as my development platform of choice, it had become quite  
sophisticated in this sense. If you made a "syntax error," for  
example, it would suggest known method, class and identifier names  
that you might have meant. It was uncannily able to "guess" the right  
one as its first choice. Saved me a ton of time I'd have spent re- 
editing and recompiling Java.



On Sep 22, 2005, at 1:27 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   Because the compiler *doesn't* know whether you (a) neglected to  
put the
semicolon at the end of that line, or (b) accidentally hit return  
and kept on
typing. The appropriate response for each case is different. Which  
begs the
question: How is the compiler supposed to determine which response  
it should

apply?





~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html


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Grrrrr, Wasted Two Hours! Is this a bug in RunRev???

[David Burgun]

Hi,

I've been trying to get the simplest of things to work for a good few 
hours and eventually found the problem!


I was trying to set the rect of an Image Object and had code like this:

set the rect of me to myRect  (myRect = 132,22,222,90 for a 
width/height of 90,68)


However the rectangle came with the wrong size and when I looked at 
the object in the property inspector it told me the width was 250!


There is no Geometry on the image and the and the Limit Object 
checkbox was off BUT it had a minimum width of 250! I had to 
switch on the checkbox and then clear the min width field!


This was very weird, cos I could set the size to 90 in the Property 
Inspector and it would work, just not from a script.


Is this the correct behavour?

Thanks a lot
All the Best
Dave
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Re: AppleScript - Silent Running?

[Jim Ault]

google > " applescript remote" >  a bunch of links, some rather old.

'Tell' blocks can accept URLs in the 'machine' parameter, allowing
AppleScript control of remote applications via TCP/IP as of OS 9 in Nov '99

You can run a remote Applescript in Terminal
Check out the 'osascript' shell command.

http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/ct/47 [several topics]
Controlling Your Mac with AppleScript and Java
A tutorial on how to use AppleScript and Java together to automate your ...
 the power of AppleScript to make a remote control center for any
AppleScriptable apps


Jim Ault
Las Vegas

On 9/22/05 12:07 AM, "Peter Reid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
>> I used to use FMkr to export data called by Applescripts, but user interface
>> was no concern since this was a server.
>> Does the FMkr database have to be on the same Mac?  Being frontmost will not
>> be an issue in that case.
> 
> I don't think you can AppleScript an app on another Mac, I think it
> only works on the local system.


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Re: Clipboard madness

[rev]

Quoting Alex Tweedly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:


Yesterday i was BATTLING against a stack who wouldn't copy paste
information from a field to ultraedit... I tried all keyboard combos,
and even the menu - just i wouldn't copy anything...[snip]copy!



I've never been able to copy from a stack field to another field via ctrl-c
ctrl-v.

I jst always assumed you had to script it?

You may have decided that because of a bug whereby the IDE would not 
cut/paste unless (or until) there was a script editor window open. 
Sorry don't know the bug number and a (very) quick search didn't find 
it. But it is fixed in 2.6 !! so give it a try now.




Bizarely I cant copy and past in my license for 2.6 and I'm stuck with 2.5 on
this computer. :-)

I'll mail Heather about it when I get back from the "September 
weekend". PS I'm

not a weegie.

PPS Appologies to the list if you don't know what a weegie is. I 
beleive you are

up the road near Oban Alex, so I assume you do. :-)

All the best
Bob; Rainy Glasgow


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Re: AppleScript - Silent Running?

[Jim Ault]

you are correct about the 'server'.. it was a headless client that fed data
and processed reports for the office, running a FMkr client app.
Applescript coordinated the email, web, FMkr, Excel, and Word apps to
produce an integrated solution without regard to screen flashing and user
interface.

Jim Ault
Las Vegas


On 9/21/05 6:15 PM, "Bruce Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>> I used to use FMkr to export data called by Applescripts, but user interface
>> was no concern since this was a server.
> 
> Doubtful. There is no way to get data from FileMaker Server, assuming  you
> are talking about days before Filemaker 7. Maybe you're just talking about
> Filemaker client with nobody operating it.
> 


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Re: Building Standalones with Panther/Tiger

[Devin Asay]

Peter,

I haven't observed that problem here. I routinely build apps on Tiger  
and deploy on Panther. Could you give us more details about the app  
you're trying to build?


Devin

On Sep 22, 2005, at 1:39 AM, Peter Reid wrote:

I'm using Rev 2.6 (build number 108) to build standalone Apps using  
both Mac OS X 10.3.9 (Panther) and 10.4.2 (Tiger).  However, the  
standalones only work on Macs with the same OS X as they were built  
on!


So a Panther-built standalone will run on a Panther Mac but not a  
Tiger Mac and a Tiger-built standalone will run on a Tiger Mac but  
not a Panther Mac!!


Is this a known problem (with a prospective fix??) or is there  
something I can do about it?

--
Peter Reid
Reid-IT Limited, Loughborough, Leics., UK
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University

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Re: Clipboard madness

[xbury . cs]

> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> >
> >> Yesterday i was BATTLING against a stack who wouldn't copy paste
> >> information from a field to ultraedit... I tried all keyboard combos,
> >> and even the menu - just i wouldn't copy anything...[snip]copy!
> >
> >
> > I've never been able to copy from a stack field to another field via 
> > ctrl-c
> > ctrl-v.
> >
> > I jst always assumed you had to script it?
> >

> You may have decided that because of a bug whereby the IDE would not 
> cut/paste unless (or until) there was a script editor window open. Sorry 

> don't know the bug number and a (very) quick search didn't find it. But 
> it is fixed in 2.6 !! so give it a try now.

No, this is definitely not fixed! Not in 2.6, not in 2.62...

The trick is that if the menubar which is currently active doesn't have a 
copy 
command, it wont work - so yes you have to script that but even in the 
script 
editor which is the active window and which has this copy command, 80% of 
the
time, i have to "activate the menubar" or it wont work even though i am 
working
in that field! Same for comment scripts, etc...

We know, you should waste half an hour reseting your preferences - but 
that's 
useless, the problem comes back again in less than a week...

The real trick for missing copy/paste commands is to click once in the 
menu 
of the script editor or the revmenubar and THEN the menu shortcut will 
work 
(is that the fix in 2.6 you're refering to?)! 

Yesterday that wouldn't even work - not even in MC! But it might possibly
be my PC maybe... 

As far as the paste screwing up... Well, it's another story. That's the 
problem
at hand... 

Hope that helps for your copy shortcut... This doesn't resolve the problem 
that
when you paste something in rev/MC yuo dont know if the pasted text is the 
same
one you copied unless you verify it...

X(


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Re: Clipboard madness

[Alex Tweedly]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:


Yesterday i was BATTLING against a stack who wouldn't copy paste
information from a field to ultraedit... I tried all keyboard combos,
and even the menu - just i wouldn't copy anything...[snip]copy!



I've never been able to copy from a stack field to another field via 
ctrl-c

ctrl-v.

I jst always assumed you had to script it?

You may have decided that because of a bug whereby the IDE would not 
cut/paste unless (or until) there was a script editor window open. Sorry 
don't know the bug number and a (very) quick search didn't find it. But 
it is fixed in 2.6 !! so give it a try now.




So why doesn't the menu or keycombos work?



I don't know but they should as standard.

Win XPproSP2

Cheers
Bob



--
Alex Tweedly   http://www.tweedly.net



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Re: Clipboard madness

[rev]

Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:


Yesterday i was BATTLING against a stack who wouldn't copy paste
information from a field to ultraedit... I tried all keyboard combos,
and even the menu - just i wouldn't copy anything...[snip]copy!


I've never been able to copy from a stack field to another field via ctrl-c
ctrl-v.

I jst always assumed you had to script it?



So why doesn't the menu or keycombos work?


I don't know but they should as standard.

Win XPproSP2

Cheers
Bob


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Clipboard madness

[xbury . cs]

Yesterday i was BATTLING against a stack who wouldn't copy paste 
information from a field to ultraedit... I tried all keyboard combos,
and even the menu - just i wouldn't copy anything... maybe it's due to the 
environment i run this into: it runs on a windows 2003 server
which has 4 metaframes opened, 4-8 RDP windows (terminal services), Notes 
(biggest crap mail client you could find in the galaxy),
and FireFox (who doesn't know how to copy paste any better...). I managed 
to make this work via a button: select text of fld x, copy!

So why doesn't the menu or keycombos work?

Today, when i copy the line from any program

emcacl \\server\fs$\userprog\xxx /t /c /y /q /g "SYSTEM":F 
"OAAD\xxx":C

and paste it into a field (or scripteditor) and what i get is:

emcacl $\\/t /c /y /q /g "SYSTEM":F "OAAD\":C

Tested in Rev 2.6, Metacard 2.62...

3rd bugzilla entry today... Rev should sponsor those who do their 
beta-testing - but i get the feeling this is an persistent problem ;)

The big question: Is this in windows only? 

I'd like to see if any of you Mac users also have this problem before i 
enlarge further the zilla list ;)

If this was a compiler problem, how many sins would it imply? ;D

cheers
Xavier


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Re: The Deadly Sins

[Cubist]

sez [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
>The fourteenth deadly sin is informing the user of a compiler error  
>your compiler was smart enough to fix without his help
>
>I always _hated_ "missing semicolon on line 13." If you know there's  
>a semicolon missing, why the heck don't you just PUT IT THERE! You're 
>the freaking computer!
   Because the compiler *doesn't* know whether you (a) neglected to put the 
semicolon at the end of that line, or (b) accidentally hit return and kept on 
typing. The appropriate response for each case is different. Which begs the 
question: How is the compiler supposed to determine which response it should 
apply?
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Building Standalones with Panther/Tiger

[Peter Reid]

I'm using Rev 2.6 (build number 108) to build standalone Apps using 
both Mac OS X 10.3.9 (Panther) and 10.4.2 (Tiger).  However, the 
standalones only work on Macs with the same OS X as they were built 
on!


So a Panther-built standalone will run on a Panther Mac but not a 
Tiger Mac and a Tiger-built standalone will run on a Tiger Mac but 
not a Panther Mac!!


Is this a known problem (with a prospective fix??) or is there 
something I can do about it?

--
Peter Reid
Reid-IT Limited, Loughborough, Leics., UK
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: AppleScript - Silent Running?

[Peter Reid]

Just did a few simple tests, yes it can be scripted while minimized. There
were a few things I had to do when scripting a hidden window that I do not
have to do when scripting a minimized window, so this looks like a good
technique.


 I used to use FMkr to export data called by Applescripts, but user interface
 was no concern since this was a server.


Doubtful. There is no way to get data from FileMaker Server, assuming  you
are talking about days before Filemaker 7. Maybe you're just talking about
Filemaker client with nobody operating it.


 Does the FMkr database have to be on the same Mac?  Being frontmost will not
 be an issue in that case.


That is probably doable.


I have done some more experiments and found that most of my 
AppleScripts work fine when hidden and without 'activate'.  The 
exception is when I open the database initially.  So I now use the 
following AppleScript for the purpose:


   tell application "FileMaker Pro 7"
  activate
  open file "THE-DATABASE-PATH"
   end tell

   tell application "Finder"
  activate
  set visible of application process "FileMaker" to false
   end tell

This opens FileMaker and the required database and then uses the 
Finder to hide FM Pro.  From then on all my other AppleScripts 
accessing FM Pro operate silently, with no obvious activity from FM 
Pro.  So, PROBLEM SOLVED!


By the way, the method I use with AppleScripting is to have a text 
file containing all the scripts which is loaded into an array at 
start time such that each script is a separate element indexed by 
script name.


If anyone is interested in my FM Pro scripting and the associated Rev 
scripting, then contact me off list for a copy.


Thanks to everyone for their contributions.
--
Peter Reid
Reid-IT Limited, Loughborough, Leics., UK
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: AppleScript - Silent Running?

[Peter Reid]

I used to use FMkr to export data called by Applescripts, but user interface
was no concern since this was a server.
Does the FMkr database have to be on the same Mac?  Being frontmost will not
be an issue in that case.


I don't think you can AppleScript an app on another Mac, I think it 
only works on the local system.

--
Peter Reid
Reid-IT Limited, Loughborough, Leics., UK
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: The Deadly Sins

[Judy Perry]

Mark,

Thanks!

If only I weren't teaching a GE (General Education = non-majors) course
this term...

I'm still trying to explain the difference between an email address and a
URL...

:-/

Judy

On Wed, 21 Sep 2005, Mark Wieder wrote:

> Sinners-
>
> I've had this filed away for a while and just rediscovered it...
>
> http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~nr/sins.html

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