Re: So long and thanks for all the stacks...
As a first-class creative XTalk's geek and a real smart people, Xavier has always been from the ones whose did our rev-list community more interssant, friendly and helpfull. To read Xavier's mails and to exchange design skills with him was always funny and helpfull. It's a sad news to have to understand that this will yet be over, in the past. On the other hand, alike any real creative people, Xavier will just be an happy and lucky guy to focus its energy on new and jungest projects (programming, music, cars,...) and i'm sure that the lost is for our rev community while the open door to new worlds is for you Xav ;-) Good luck, Friend and tell us about your projects private. About the beer, do you travel to Paris in the near, the froggie's small little town ? Kindly yours, -- Pierre Sahores www.sahores-conseil.com Le 24 févr. 06 à 18:01, MisterX a écrit : That part of it was a quiproquo and I dont blame rev for it. At least once they did read what I said and acted on it! Like I said, no hard feelings, I look forward to other creative activities beyond programming! It's sad to throw away such a long enterprise as was TAOO and the long hours chatting in the list. HAD I known! Famous last words ;) Believe me the bigger loss is not mine... The decision was fostered by rev's reactions - true but the decision came to me in light of exploiting other fun stuff like music composition, racing engineering and skills, sci fi writing which were all in the backburner due to the time I spent before during and after work in Rev, and usually also for rev at my own cost. Please be cool with rev, help them make their tools better for you. Cheers Xavier -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sean Shao Sent: Friday, 24 February, 2006 17:27 To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Subject: Re: So long and thanks for all the stacks... I don't understand... Why is Xavier giving up on Rev? It seems that you're not signed up on the MetaCard list, but there was some accusations from RR in regards to Xavier's license.. http://mail.runrev.com/pipermail/metacard/2006-February/009018.html http://mail.runrev.com/pipermail/metacard/2006-February/009033.html http://mail.runrev.com/pipermail/metacard/2006-February/009034.html We'll miss you X, -Sean _ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfeeR Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Internet Rich Applications Patent Granted
On Feb 24, 2006, at 9:00 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: [snip] Or will the USPTO let me patent air? -- Richard Gaskin Where do I send my check for my license to use your patented air? :-) Oh, one question though, does that air already contain bugs? and are you taking any steps to remove those bugs from the air? You know I expect my licensed air to be completely bug free. 8-) -Garrett ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Internet Rich Applications Patent Granted
Recently, Garrett Hylltun wrote: Or will the USPTO let me patent air? Where do I send my check for my license to use your patented air? :-) Oh, one question though, does that air already contain bugs? and are you taking any steps to remove those bugs from the air? You know I expect my licensed air to be completely bug free. Keep in mind, that air probably contains viruses as well. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia Design - E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] W: http://www.tactilemedia.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Window with no title bar in Linux?
Bob Warren wrote: Gilberto Cuba showed me how to remove the title bar in Linux. It's incredibly simple and makes sense: After setting the decorations to empty, in the stack's properties (Size Position), uncheck Resizable. That's it! (Makes me feel a right twit**.) Thanks very much Gilberto. Now, if somebody can tell me how to set the top of the window to a negative value in Linux, that'd put the cherry on top of the cake! Bob Bob, Have you looked into the windowboundingrect global property? The default setting of this might result in the restriction you describe. But you can set it yourself, which might solve your problem. HTH Martin Baxter ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Internet Rich Applications Patent Granted
You wrote: Recently, Garrett Hylltun wrote: Or will the USPTO let me patent air? Where do I send my check for my license to use your patented air? :-) Oh, one question though, does that air already contain bugs? and are you taking any steps to remove those bugs from the air? You know I expect my licensed air to be completely bug free. Keep in mind, that air probably contains viruses as well. Yep and there are some really sill ones in teh biomed industry. Company A develops a drug for heroin addiction. Turns out is is too toxic at 50mg dose required for the anti opiate effect. Allong comes a Doc in private practice and patents the use of the drug for another dose. It has been done and the drug may be usefull for MS. I'm personally sceptical on the effectiveness of treatment for MS, however, patenting a dose? The dose is a lower dose, so to get round the royalties one would have to prescribe a dose too high for the patient; consequence, ill patients. DOH!! Her is my new patent. The use of liquid within the pH range pH4.1 to pH 8.9 (adding a confusing technicallity) to assist the ability to swallow substances that incorporate complex carbohydrate and protein at a temperature above 37.6 celcius. OR in laymans terms. That glass of water or coke you just drank with your burger. Declaration of interest. In case anyone has seen Dr. Bob in the past in my sig, I'm not a medic but a Cell Biologist. Cheers Bob ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript and Dot Notation
Judy Perry wrote: 1. It being optional didn't stop it from destroying accessibility to verbose Lingo in Director. Latecomers to Director didn't have any other learning options or choices than dot.speak. Yes, I think that's a danger, especially if a large part of the audience for books (and tutorials, etc.) is going to be converts from other languages, who might find the dot notation more comfortable and easier than natural language style. 2. Optional isn't the same as transparent. I'd be less leery if I could look in a crystal ball and see that it was implemented in a transparent fashion. Well, we know that allowing a mix is going to be hard for RR. So why not make it harder :-) It wold be nice if there were a perf switch in the IDE: click dot-style and your scripts appear in dot-notation style, click natural language and your scripts are converted to traditional Transcript style; so the same statement appears as either set the stopColor of TrafficLight to red or set the TrafficLight.stopColour to red (or even put red into TrafficLight.stopColour) [btw - note how it corrects your spelling at the same time :-) ] 3. It's a slippery slope. Once it heads down that path, there will be little reason to implement new functionalities in Rev taking care to do it in a natural-language fashion. Again that's a danger, which the community would have some role in averting. But remember there are benefits to dot-notations style. There are the intellectual advantages that make OO a good approach, but I'm the wrong one to argue for them. What *I* like about dot-notation is how it allows the IDE to make it easier to use for casual, or inexpert, users. I like the fact that in my other-language IDE, I can do something like type status = smtplib. and then wait for 2 seconds The IDE looks up the list of all properties and functions available within the smtp library, and displays a pop-up box showing them. I can scroll through that to see what all ones are available, hit CR to select the current on (or type the first few chars and it auto-scrolls there), etc. If I select one, e.g. type 'rftab' to select the rfc822 sub-library, I get status = smtplib.rfc822 and again when I type a dot and pause for 2 seconds, I get a list of all the possible completions. Then if I type Addtab it selects the first matching function, so my display now shows status = smtplib.rfc822.AddressList and if I type the open paren, I see parameters needed by that function, and the documentation describing them. I don't know for sure that it would be *impossible* to do that in a Transcript IDE - but it seems like it would be much much harder than it is in a dot-notation language. And it makes using an unfamiliar library so much easier than hoping between a script editor and one (or more) documentation windows. -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.0/269 - Release Date: 24/02/2006 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Export to pdf
On 2/25/06, Marty Knapp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a card with an assortment of objects - native Rev graphic images, text fields and possibly an imported jpg, png or gif image (some of these could overlap each other). I'm using the export as snapshot to a jpeg, but would be interested to know if there's a way to export this to a pdf, preferably with more resolution than I'm getting. Does anyone know if this is possible, and if so, how? I don't think you can do it directly, but on OS X, you can create an image file and then use a shell command to create a PDF from that image file. Ken Ray gave an example of this in a previous posting http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2003-October/025071.html. As regards the resolution of the snapshot, if you export as JPEG, check out the JPEGquality property. HTH, Sarah ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: So long and thanks for all the stacks...
wow Dan im moved by those words in a serious way! I reassure you nothing is lost, it's only transformed... Opportunity cost and an open mind for alternatives and opportunities is what I like in this new life away from the computer... Dan, You're one of the best and really wished I could write like you! I'll do you proud hopefully with a book on TAOO - and let the reader imagine! I think the idea is still ahead of its time though some might say it's been there since the beginning of computing! But I have a science fiction book I started writing and left unatended too long... I'll surely miss revland! But it's not the only way to serenity! It sure was a great way. I just realized I had other revolutions I wasn't tending to ;) Cheers Xavier http://monsieurx.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Shafer Sent: Friday, 24 February, 2006 21:21 To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: So long and thanks for all the stacks... I have long been a supporter and fan of Xavier's. He attempted to create a massive infrastructure in HyperCard and later began moving it to Rev. He and I have had many very long exchanges about the object orientation of what he was trying to build. I think he learned a lot about how hard it is to create an OO world in a language that doesn't think in objects. He sure taught me a few things in the process. We'll miss you in Revland, Xavier, but you are following in time-honored steps. When Bill Atkinson, the Father of HyperCard, moved on, he moved all the way on, shifting his life focus away from technology and into photography. Watershed moments come in the oddest ways sometimes. Perhaps the push over the edge that Xavier felt at the way he perceived being treated by RunRev will turn out to be in the long run the best thing that could have happened for him. I sincerely hope so. On 2/24/06, Jonathan Lynch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone can mail me before they come to luxembourg for a beer, good food and loads of laughs! ;) cheers Xavier I, for one, shall have wine tonight, and shall toast Xavier to my wife. (Who will probably look at me funny and ask who the heck that is.) J ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- ~~ Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: So long and thanks for all the stacks...
Nice sentiment, but it's hard to be cool with people that are so short sighted, so inflexible and seem hell bent on ruining their own business. Anyway. Enough of that! Thanks for all the help Xavier you will be missed greatly. All the VERY Best Dave On 24 Feb 2006, at 17:01, MisterX wrote: That part of it was a quiproquo and I dont blame rev for it. At least once they did read what I said and acted on it! Like I said, no hard feelings, I look forward to other creative activities beyond programming! It's sad to throw away such a long enterprise as was TAOO and the long hours chatting in the list. HAD I known! Famous last words ;) Believe me the bigger loss is not mine... The decision was fostered by rev's reactions - true but the decision came to me in light of exploiting other fun stuff like music composition, racing engineering and skills, sci fi writing which were all in the backburner due to the time I spent before during and after work in Rev, and usually also for rev at my own cost. Please be cool with rev, help them make their tools better for you. Cheers Xavier -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sean Shao Sent: Friday, 24 February, 2006 17:27 To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Subject: Re: So long and thanks for all the stacks... I don't understand... Why is Xavier giving up on Rev? It seems that you're not signed up on the MetaCard list, but there was some accusations from RR in regards to Xavier's license.. http://mail.runrev.com/pipermail/metacard/2006-February/009018.html http://mail.runrev.com/pipermail/metacard/2006-February/009033.html http://mail.runrev.com/pipermail/metacard/2006-February/009034.html We'll miss you X, -Sean _ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfeeR Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: On the Democratic Operation of Bugzilla
On 2/25/06, David Vaughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 25/02/2006, Garrett Hylltun [EMAIL PROTECTED] and Gregory Lypny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote stuff. Sorry to others for some repetitious elements in here but I see a couple of basic themes in the offerings from Garrett and Gregory (principally the former) which I wish to answer. Hear, hear! What a splendid email. I agree 100%. And this is where the bug voting comes into play. As someone mentioned earlier in this debate, it is possible to find and report a bug so trivial or so easy to bypass, that the interest in fixing it is zero. On the other hand, I find bugs that are important to me, and I see someone else has reported it earlier. I still like to be able to log the fact that this is important to me, even if I can't be the original reporter. Yet, every now and then, I see a window appear on my machine. It says: Would you like to report this problem to Apple? Yes, and if it appears for Safari or any other Apple app, that's fine and I send off the report, but if it's Photoshop or something else, I see no point in sending the report to Apple, but I have no way of logging the problem with the actual developer. To digress slightly, I think the reason Rev appears to have so many bugs is because it is so versatile. We all use Rev in different ways to do widely different projects. I ignore some bugs because I never do the things they refer to. Others find the same bugs to be project blockers. Then again, some people use Rev in a way that the development team never imagined. That's great, but it means they will be the first to strike bugs in those areas. By comparison, testing a single-use application like a word-processor should be simple, but they still crash :-) I wonder is the Rev team doing itself a disservice by letting all Rev users access the bug reports? While most people seem to value the chance to point out problems and influence future versions, some people regard a public bug list as an admission of failure. Maybe it would be better to restrict bugzilla to members of the improve-rev list or make it by invitation only. Just a few random thoughts, Sarah ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: So long and thanks for all the stacks...
Hi everyone, I think that the things must be clear in these stormy days: everyone may give his opinion in democracy :-) So, I forward to the list a private email I sent to Xavier yesterday. Yes, Xavier, Rev looses much more than you. They loose a passionate evangelist with a new idea each minute, who helped the community at the speed of his Z3 and always brought clean air in single thinking processes. A for me, I shall no longer participate to the list until Rev announces significant changes in their way of treating their customers and clear up the 2.7 mess. I really hope they will have understood yet the warning shot coming from so many passionate users. Forwarded message : De : Eric Chatonet [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date : 24 février 2006 09:22:31 HNEC À : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Objet : So sorry :-( Hi Xavier, I understand your concern but I'll miss you. As for me, I warn Mark and Kevin (off-list) for weeks against a lack of exigence and the wrong way they are taking. I don't mince my words but obviously, they don't want to understand... Nice life and, sure, some private emails going on :-) Best Regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet -- http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: I Can't download 2.7 for OS X
I am having the same problem. In my case, I tried downloading the installer for Dreamcard (several times) from this page: http://downloads.runrev.com/dreamcard/ ... The installer downloads OK, but then, on expanding, the following message appears: An error has occurred while expanding the file install_download.app.sit (The archive may contain damaged content). Error #17538 This is particularly worrying as I only bought Dreamcard one month ago, and the last thing I want is to be obsolete so quickly, particularly if Dreamcard is going to be dropped. Incidentally, I received the following email offer from Runrev: Hurry - this special offer ends on Monday 27th February! Get your copy of the new Revolution 2.7, or upgrade your existing copy - and we'll give you the wonderful Constellation free - a saving of $50. Just make any purchase over $199 to qualify. This message came up in Mail without images, so I cannot figure out what is meant by this offer. If it applies to me, and I hope it does one month after purchase(!), I cannot act on it because the download does not work. To make things worse, of course, the offer expires in two days... Ryno. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: I Can't download 2.7 for OS X
You're not alone. I also haven't been able to upgrade my mac to OSX either. --yes I am connected to the Internet. I've been too busy to try very hard and I am in no rush (always let others find the problems and upgrade to x.1 version ;-) Still, I'm feeling ready to move up. 2.7 (on XP --no bugs on my system) looks really neat.) Could it be a java issue? Is this a java installer thing? tm ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: I Can't download 2.7 for OS X
Hi Ryno and Tom, You're not alone. I also haven't been able to upgrade my mac to OSX either. --yes I am connected to the Internet. I've been too busy to try very hard and I am in no rush (always let others find the problems and upgrade to x.1 version ;-) I'd strongly advice RunRev to drop the Stuffit thing***, which causes (d) massive problems on many machines now and in the past, and use either a DMG or a ZIP archive for distribution the OS X version! The Stuffit Expander had been part of every OS X install up to version 10.3.x but is NOT anymore on 10.4.x a.k.a Tiger! Still, I'm feeling ready to move up. 2.7 (on XP --no bugs on my system) looks really neat.) Could it be a java issue? Is this a java installer thing? C'mon, I would have been personally offended it they had NOT built the beast with Rev ;-) tm Regards Klaus Major [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.major-k.de ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: I Can't download 2.7 for OS X
Please contact RunRev at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Instead of hoping and waiting just email them and ask what you can do. Contrary to what a few passionate users have said the RunRev team has always been more than willing to help out. They will help you too if you ask. Tom On Feb 25, 2006, at 6:39 AM, Ryno wrote: I am having the same problem. In my case, I tried downloading the installer for Dreamcard (several times) from this page: http:// downloads.runrev.com/dreamcard/ ... The installer downloads OK, but then, on expanding, the following message appears: An error has occurred while expanding the file install_download.app.sit (The archive may contain damaged content). Error #17538 This is particularly worrying as I only bought Dreamcard one month ago, and the last thing I want is to be obsolete so quickly, particularly if Dreamcard is going to be dropped. Incidentally, I received the following email offer from Runrev: Hurry - this special offer ends on Monday 27th February! Get your copy of the new Revolution 2.7, or upgrade your existing copy - and we'll give you the wonderful Constellation free - a saving of $50. Just make any purchase over $199 to qualify. This message came up in Mail without images, so I cannot figure out what is meant by this offer. If it applies to me, and I hope it does one month after purchase(!), I cannot act on it because the download does not work. To make things worse, of course, the offer expires in two days... Ryno. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Thomas J McGrath III [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lazy River Software™ - http://www.lazyriversoftware.com Lazy River Metal Art™ - http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/metal.html Meeting Wear™ - http://www.cafepress.com/meetingwear Semantic Compaction Systems - http://www.minspeak.com SCIconics, LLC - http://www.sciconics.com/sciindex.html ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Export to pdf
On 2/25/06, Marty Knapp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a card with an assortment of objects - native Rev graphic images, text fields and possibly an imported jpg, png or gif image (some of these could overlap each other). I'm using the export as snapshot to a jpeg, but would be interested to know if there's a way to export this to a pdf, preferably with more resolution than I'm getting. Does anyone know if this is possible, and if so, how? Take a look at Universal Document Converter (UDC) at http://www.print-driver.com It allows you to print to JPG, PNG, etc. from any application; even from rev stacks. This is a PC solution, however it can be shared as a network printer that is accessible by Macs. Roger Eller [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Export to pdf
On 2/25/06, Marty Knapp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a card with an assortment of objects - native Rev graphic images, text fields and possibly an imported jpg, png or gif image (some of these could overlap each other). I'm using the export as snapshot to a jpeg, but would be interested to know if there's a way to export this to a pdf, preferably with more resolution than I'm getting. Does anyone know if this is possible, and if so, how? I forgot to mention that UDC also supports output [to] PDF (as color or b/w bitmap) as well as a multitude of other bitmap formats. Roger Eller [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript and Dot Notation
Hi all--except Mr. X :{(
So if Transcript does go object-oriented -- and I hope and believe it
will, though it may be an alternative fork rather than a forced switch
-- I hope it *does* in fact adopt dot notation so that all of us who
have trained our brains to think in those terms when we create and
program with objects will e comfortable doing so.
We have had other conversations along this line, and the thing I find
most interesting is that some of the people who readily extoll the
virtues of Xtalk syntax also take the lead in suggesting that RRLtd use
existing syntax from some other language to implement new features.
Dan wants dot notation, Richard has proposed Visual Basic syntax, some
want C notation, etc.
I want Xtalk syntax. I want my Transcript scripts to read like a
novel; not a mathematical formula. And I believe it is possible.
Did Winkler Atkinson grab pieces of this syntax and that syntax from
other platforms when they created HyperTalk? My answer: no, they
created a logically integrated syntax that performed most of the same
functions as FORTRAN, Basic, Pascal, C, etc. in a more readable and
efficient syntax.
Suppose someone reviewed all existing programming languages, determined
which has the best syntax for each operation, and created a language
that combined them. Would the result be the world's most efficient
language or an illogical nightmare?
Additionally, simply incorporating existing syntax from another
language dooms Transcript to same-old, same-old status and foregoes
an opportunity to make it different better than the competition. I
think Dan Richard are among the best and brightest among us, and if
they were motivated they (and the rest of us) could integrate the
features they desire into an Xtalk syntax that fits logically into
Transcript.
Sure it's harder than lobbying RRLtd to adopt a syntax one already
knows; but the results, IMFO, are worth the extra effort.
Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee.
from The Triple Foole by John Donne (1572-1631)
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Re: Text Tools Palette-Gone?
On Feb 24, 2006, at 1:39 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: Sivakatirswami wrote: I meant an independent palette that set text properties for the selected text or object. Text Tools I vaguely recall we had that once. Sounds like it may have been a custom plugin. If you look in your Plugins folder inside older Rev distributions you may find it. I don't know of anything like that which actually ships with Revolution. There used to be something like this in the 1.x interface. If memory serves it went away when 2.0 came out. Devin Devin Asay Humanities Technology and Research Support Center Brigham Young University ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: So long and thanks for all the stacks...
Hi Everyone, Unfortunately, I am in the same position as Xavier and Eric. I am not reading any of the rev lists anymore, so please contact me privately or copy my email on things you would like me to read. My support to the fantastic xTalk language continues, as does my support to this brilliant community. The codes website and revolution.widged.com/wiki will continue to run. I won't even even remove the testimonials page. xTalk is a great product and will remain so and nobody can change that. Similarly , I acknowledge the professionalism of many members of the team and I acknowledge all the very many efforts that have been put by the technical team in 2.7. I always have been served above my expectations by Heather, their secretary. My problems are primarily, if not exclusively, with their manager's way of treating customers. As I want to give them every chance to resolve these problems, I won't write more here. Marielle Marielle Lange (PhD), Psycholinguist Alternative emails: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Homepage http://homepages.widged.com/mlange/ Easy access to lexical databaseshttp:// lexicall.widged.com/ Supporting Education Technologists http:// revolution.widged.com/wiki/ ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript and Dot Notation
I agree. Any extension to transcript should surely be as natural to
it as possible. Adopting non-xTalk-like syntax wholesale from other
languages would make any real OO stuff more like using applescript or
VBScript in Rev, which is fine and useful, but would tend to be
attractive only to those who already know their stuff, while those
who don't would most likely ignore the possible benefits available.
Of course, any OO extension to Transcript is going to involve us in
some kind of learning curve (like the one for those of us coming from
Hypercard and trying to figure out custom properties), but a
transcript-like syntax will surely make the curve less steep, and
therefore taken on by more people.
As Dan points out with the example of SmallTalk, dot notation is not
necessarily the only or best way to do OOP, however many other
languages use it. I can remember some thread on the list about using
= as an assignment operator, with some people in favour of it
simply because they were used to it in other languages. This didn't
seem like a strong argument to me, and fortunately not to the RunRev
people, either. (OK, I know it can be used in Global and Local
declarations, but as some wise man once said if you think it's
possible to be completely consistent in everything, then show us by
example!)
Mark
On 25 Feb 2006, at 16:22, Rob Cozens wrote:
Hi all--except Mr. X :{(
So if Transcript does go object-oriented -- and I hope and believe it
will, though it may be an alternative fork rather than a forced
switch
-- I hope it *does* in fact adopt dot notation so that all of us who
have trained our brains to think in those terms when we create and
program with objects will e comfortable doing so.
We have had other conversations along this line, and the thing I
find most interesting is that some of the people who readily extoll
the virtues of Xtalk syntax also take the lead in suggesting that
RRLtd use existing syntax from some other language to implement new
features.
Dan wants dot notation, Richard has proposed Visual Basic syntax,
some want C notation, etc.
I want Xtalk syntax. I want my Transcript scripts to read like a
novel; not a mathematical formula. And I believe it is possible.
Did Winkler Atkinson grab pieces of this syntax and that syntax
from other platforms when they created HyperTalk? My answer: no,
they created a logically integrated syntax that performed most of
the same functions as FORTRAN, Basic, Pascal, C, etc. in a more
readable and efficient syntax.
Suppose someone reviewed all existing programming languages,
determined which has the best syntax for each operation, and
created a language that combined them. Would the result be the
world's most efficient language or an illogical nightmare?
Additionally, simply incorporating existing syntax from another
language dooms Transcript to same-old, same-old status and
foregoes an opportunity to make it different better than the
competition. I think Dan Richard are among the best and
brightest among us, and if they were motivated they (and the rest
of us) could integrate the features they desire into an Xtalk
syntax that fits logically into Transcript.
Sure it's harder than lobbying RRLtd to adopt a syntax one already
knows; but the results, IMFO, are worth the extra effort.
Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee.
from The Triple Foole by John Donne (1572-1631)
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trouble downloading dreamcard
I am having the same problem. In my case, I tried downloading the installer for Dreamcard (several times) from this page: http://downloads.runrev.com/dreamcard/ ... The installer downloads OK, but then, on expanding, the following message appears: An error has occurred while expanding the file install_download.app.sit (The archive may contain damaged content). Error #17538 This is particularly worrying as I only bought Dreamcard one month ago, and the last thing I want is to be obsolete so quickly, particularly if Dreamcard is going to be dropped. I had the same problem, so I downloaded the most recent version of (free) StuffIt Expander, at: http://www.stuffit.com/mac/expander/download.html This solved my problem. I'm using the latest version of Mac OS X. Rand Valentine University of Wisconsin-Madison Linguistics 1168 Van Hise Hall (608) 262-2292 American Indian Studies 317 Ingraham Hall (608) 263-5501 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: On the Democratic Operation of Bugzilla
Dan, et al: Voting says This is my relative (among outstanding bugs) priority for fixing the bug. Consider voting as contributing to a proposed budget for RRLtd's RD + Support: RRLtd gives you the opportunity to distribute $100 [ie 100 votes] among all the outstanding bug reports and enhancement requests, with the proviso that you could not allocate more than $5 [votes] to any single item. RRLtd then distributes all the unallocated $ [votes] however it sees fit. Like government, the larger the proportion of those voting, the greater the influence of the vote on the vote takers. Like government, your criticism carries less validity if you don't vote. So vote early and often! Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee. from The Triple Foole by John Donne (1572-1631) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [ANN] Navigator Plugin version 3.0 now available
On Feb 22, 2006, at 11:17 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote: I had forgotten that option. I've done this, and re-uploaded. You can get the updated (reverted? dis-updated?) stack from the inspiredlogic.com web site. I should point out that this is a free update for people who have previously registered Navigator. If anyone who already has a license for Navigator has paid again and wants a refund, please let me know. regards, geoff ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Export to pdf
Take a look at Universal Document Converter (UDC) at http://www.print-driver.com It allows you to print to JPG, PNG, etc. from any application; even from rev stacks. This is a PC solution, however it can be shared as a network printer that is accessible by Macs. I guess it's not so 'universal' at all... sqb Roger Eller [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- stephen barncard s a n f r a n c i s c o - - - - - - - - - - - - ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Internet Rich Applications Patent Granted
Bob- Saturday, February 25, 2006, 2:01:03 AM, you wrote: Declaration of interest. In case anyone has seen Dr. Bob in the past in my sig, I'm not a medic but a Cell Biologist. Are you in a Cell because you tried to file that patent? g -- -Mark Wieder [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Internet Rich Applications Patent Granted
On 2/24/06, Richard Gaskin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When a patent is found to be without merit with so many millions of prior art examples, does the patent filer pay a penalty to the USPTO for wasting their time? Or will the USPTO let me patent air? -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal No fine, they just lose the granting of the patent on appeal. It's not the patent that is dangerous, it's the court decision in any law suite. Anyone wanting to seek any compensation after they have been sued needs to counter suing for a malicious lawsuit in the first place. Punitive damages could reach very high. I don't think that you can recover your own cost to defend yourself in the original suit but you can attack them for being attacked in the first place. It's a game. You throw your cards on the table and if you are not caught cheating then you win. The person suing is the winner if you don't defend yourself. What should be tried is suing them first for clouding the issue, getting the patent, when prior art does exist and is easily accessible. It's time to fight back. This is getting to be a form of bureaucratic negligence that feeds the flames of the suit happy ambulance chasing types. If that doesn't work, there is always the violent method of doing business. That system has always worked throughout the ages. my.two.cents(so, what) -- no to dot syntax if it slows Rev down. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Export to pdf
Thanks Roger and Sarah, As my stack will be used by others, I need a more portable solution than the UDC and I need Windows and Mac solution. I did compare exporting as snapshot in the jpeg and png formats and the png format seems to have a bit more quality. The exported image will be printed by a fulfillment center and they prefer to use PDFs, but I've asked them to consider an exception and test in other formats. We'll see what they say. Still, I'm dealing with screen resolution which is about half of what I'd like. I'll keep tinkering! Marty Knapp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/25/06, Marty Knapp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a card with an assortment of objects - native Rev graphic images, text fields and possibly an imported jpg, png or gif image (some of these could overlap each other). I'm using the export as snapshot to a jpeg, but would be interested to know if there's a way to export this to a pdf, preferably with more resolution than I'm getting. Does anyone know if this is possible, and if so, how? Take a look at Universal Document Converter (UDC) at http://www.print-driver.com It allows you to print to JPG, PNG, etc. from any application; even from rev stacks. This is a PC solution, however it can be shared as a network printer that is accessible by Macs. Roger Eller [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Export to pdf
Facilitating high resolution PDF export of screens should be a high- priority feature for future releases of Rev, in my opinion. Mark On Feb 25, 2006, at 10:49 AM, Marty Knapp wrote: Thanks Roger and Sarah, As my stack will be used by others, I need a more portable solution than the UDC and I need Windows and Mac solution. I did compare exporting as snapshot in the jpeg and png formats and the png format seems to have a bit more quality. The exported image will be printed by a fulfillment center and they prefer to use PDFs, but I've asked them to consider an exception and test in other formats. We'll see what they say. Still, I'm dealing with screen resolution which is about half of what I'd like. I'll keep tinkering! Marty Knapp ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Dan's Books
I like obtuse, Dan... Much more my level than abstruce. /H Thanks, Scott, for the kind words. There are times -- and this weekend promises to be one of them -- when unsolicited testimonials make a lot of what goes into writing these things so worthwhile that I forget for a while my significant hair-loss as a result of trying to explain how to do something obtuse. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Export to pdf
I do this often, Marty. Select AdobePDF as your printer from the print dialog. Someone else may be able to tell you how to do this progamatically, however. /H On 2/25/06, Marty Knapp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a card with an assortment of objects - native Rev graphic images, text fields and possibly an imported jpg, png or gif image (some of these could overlap each other). I'm using the export as snapshot to a jpeg, but would be interested to know if there's a way to export this to a pdf, preferably with more resolution than I'm getting. Does anyone know if this is possible, and if so, how? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Rép : So long and thanks for all the stack s...
Pierre Sahores wrote: It's a desolation... I can't understand what happen RunRev Team. Are you sure you wanted to drive us, the historical Xtalk's developpers and fellows, in a so critical way ? They don't want to do that. The problem here is that no one has the whole story. RR has been discrete. Xavier has presented his side to a few individiuals in private mail, but it is not the whole story. This topic should never have come up on the lists, and now that it has, people think they know what is happening but they do not. Non-Americans (and maybe some Americans as well) may not know about the hot coffee lawsuit against MacDonald's a few years ago. A woman was badly burned when she spilled a cup of coffee and she sued MacDonald's. She won the lawsuit. It became the brunt of many jokes; everyone felt it was a trivial lawsuit that showed how litigation-happy Americans are, and how they will sue for damages at the smallest provocation. Everyone agreed that if you spill hot coffee on yourself, it is not the fault of the company who sold you the coffee. The woman was a laughing stock. However, when the details of the trial were released, opinion changed. Those who had read the transcripts no longer thought the woman's lawsuit was frivolous. They now understood that MacDonald's had ignored warnings for years and now had to account for themselves. Do not judge Runtime by the second-hand information that has been disclosed to these lists. Without all the details, there is no judgement that can be made. It is natural to want to defend those we perceive as the victims, but there are always two sides to any story. Let's end this thread. It serves no useful purpose. (Details of the McDonald's lawsuit: http://lawandhelp.com/q298-2.htm) -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Export to pdf
Stephen Barncard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Roger Eller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: .. This is a PC solution, however it can be shared as a network printer that is accessible by Macs. I guess it's not so 'universal' at all... sqb Ah, so you want it to be 'Mac' universal. ;-) There are a multitude of file format conversion utilities that work cross-platform. GhostScript does a pretty good job on Mac, PC and Linux. A card could be exported as a PNG or JPG, then just shell a GS command to convert it to PDF. This would appear transparent to the end user. Roger Eller [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Internet Rich Applications Patent Granted
He said Cell nor Celled.
On 2/25/06 2:35 PM, Mark Wieder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Bob-
Saturday, February 25, 2006, 2:01:03 AM, you wrote:
Declaration of interest. In case anyone has seen Dr. Bob in the past in my
sig, I'm not a medic but a Cell Biologist.
Are you in a Cell because you tried to file that patent? g
|||
)_) )_) )_)
)___))___))___)\
)))_)\\
_|||\\\__
---\ /- http://www.bluewatermaritime.com
^ ^
^^^^^
^^^
24 hour cell: (787) 378-6190
fax: (787) 809-8426
Blue Water Maritime
P.O. Box 91
Puerto Real, PR 00740
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Re: Export to pdf
Yes, the OSX Print to PDF is a great solution ... for the Mac. But is there something similar for the PC? In my collection of Rev stacks, there's one called Save Vectors to PDF.rev that converts native Rev graphics to high-rez PDFs. It seems a bit over my head. I'm not sure who put it together - it's very cool for what it does. Does anyone know who did this? Could it be adapted to include text? Bitmap graphics? Marty Knapp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do this often, Marty. Select AdobePDF as your printer from the print dialog. Someone else may be able to tell you how to do this progamatically, however. /H On 2/25/06, Marty Knapp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a card with an assortment of objects - native Rev graphic images, text fields and possibly an imported jpg, png or gif image (some of these could overlap each other). I'm using the export as snapshot to a jpeg, but would be interested to know if there's a way to export this to a pdf, preferably with more resolution than I'm getting. Does anyone know if this is possible, and if so, how? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Internet Rich Applications Patent Granted
If and when this patent gets prosecuted, it won't be against a small company. Outfits that patent these kinds of things go after huge fish first and hope everyone else falls into line thereafter. Sometimes they go after a small fish whose legal defense funds they can exhaust. Thus armed with a winning court precedent, they then reel in the bigger fi$h. Jim Lambert ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Win XP / Rev 2.7
For the record I want to say that when I installed Rev 2.7 on XP I had crashes many times a day as well. That makes three of us on this list that had severe problems and had to roll back to 2.6.1, loosing time and work. For me, the crashes seemed to occur more often than not when selecting and editing text, both in the script editor and in plain fields. As for tracing down the problem by dissecting stacks, etc., as of now I am busy with other matters and am hoping the Rev team can sort this out. It is obviously not a problem that is limited to my configuration and I would probably have just as hard a time tracing it down as somebody starting from scratch. I was disappointed that such a severe problem made it into a release. David ps. I am not using any plugins, I installed to a new folder (changed the default install path), and I upgraded from 2.6.1. The one stack I have had problems with was converted from 2.6.1. I work somewhat routinely with one other stack that unfortunately I did not save a copy of before opening with 2.7, so I am stuck with 2.7 for that stack. Rev has not crashed yet when I have been working with that stack. I will let the list know if that changes. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript and Dot Notation
Amen, Rob. If it is OO *capabilities* that are desired, then fine: just provide them in a natural-language manner (e.g., keep it transparent). But the language paradigm simply cannot be allowed to be converted from a focused, internally-consistent one into the mishm-mash of whatever (VB syntax? sure, use it in this context; want dot.sytax for OO? sure! use it here.. don't like the words stack, card etc.? heck, call them plates and saucers and, well, whatever). It simply will cease to be a coherent language at that point. And, whatever it will be, an x-Talk it will not. Judy On Sat, 25 Feb 2006, Rob Cozens wrote: We have had other conversations along this line, and the thing I find most interesting is that some of the people who readily extoll the virtues of Xtalk syntax also take the lead in suggesting that RRLtd use existing syntax from some other language to implement new features. Dan wants dot notation, Richard has proposed Visual Basic syntax, some want C notation, etc. I want Xtalk syntax. I want my Transcript scripts to read like a novel; not a mathematical formula. And I believe it is possible. Did Winkler Atkinson grab pieces of this syntax and that syntax from other platforms when they created HyperTalk? My answer: no, they created a logically integrated syntax that performed most of the same functions as FORTRAN, Basic, Pascal, C, etc. in a more readable and efficient syntax. Suppose someone reviewed all existing programming languages, determined which has the best syntax for each operation, and created a language that combined them. Would the result be the world's most efficient language or an illogical nightmare? Additionally, simply incorporating existing syntax from another language dooms Transcript to same-old, same-old status and foregoes an opportunity to make it different better than the competition. I think Dan Richard are among the best and brightest among us, and if they were motivated they (and the rest of us) could integrate the features they desire into an Xtalk syntax that fits logically into Transcript. Sure it's harder than lobbying RRLtd to adopt a syntax one already knows; but the results, IMFO, are worth the extra effort. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Win XP / Rev 2.7
For the record I want to say that when I installed Rev 2.7 on XP I had crashes many times a day as well. That makes three of us on this list that had severe problems and had to roll back to 2.6.1, loosing time and work. For me, the crashes seemed to occur more often than not when selecting and editing text, both in the script editor and in plain fields. As for tracing down the problem by dissecting stacks, etc., as of now I am busy with other matters and am hoping the Rev team can sort this out. It is obviously not a problem that is limited to my configuration and I would probably have just as hard a time tracing it down as somebody starting from scratch. I was disappointed that such a severe problem made it into a release. David ps. I am not using any plugins, I installed to a new folder (changed the default install path), and I upgraded from 2.6.1. The one stack I have had problems with was converted from 2.6.1. I work somewhat routinely with one other stack that unfortunately I did not save a copy of before opening with 2.7, so I am stuck with 2.7 for that stack. Rev has not crashed yet when I have been working with that stack. I will let the list know if that changes. Hi David, Thanks for taking the time to tell us this. Given the current defeatist attitude displayed by some on the list recently, it makes a refreshing change :-) I am 100% confident that all these problems can be sorted out, but the process will be much faster if as many as possible can report what causes problems instead of just abandoning the list. This is the first report of 2.7 crashes that actually contains any information about the installation and what seems to be triggering the crashes. I'm sure the Rev team will find this helpful. Chipp has written a plugin that will revert your stack from 2.7 format back to 3.6. You can get it this way: To get the StackFormat plugin, just type into your 2.7 message box and hit return the following: go URL http://www.gadgetplugins.com/altplugins/StackFormat.rev; Then save it to your plugins folder. That's all there is to it. Cheers, Sarah ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript and Dot Notation
At 4:25 PM -0600 2/24/2006, Peter T. Evensen wrote: send go to traffic light... That works for methods, but how about functions? I have never liked the current transcript syntax of Value(GetCurrentColor(), TrafficLight).TrafficLight.GetColor() is much more readable, in my opinion. Hmm. get the currentColor() of trafficLight seems even more readable to me. Or, where trafficLight is actually a class, get the currentColor() of trafficLight My Light (I agree that the value syntax for this is clumsy; I suspect it doesn't come up more often as a problem mostly because people tend to use getProp handlers for this sort of thing, rather than function calls, so the clumsiness is avoided.) -- jeanne a. e. devoto ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.jaedworks.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript and Dot Notation
On 2/25/06 1:31 PM, Judy Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Amen, Rob. If it is OO *capabilities* that are desired, then fine: just provide them in a natural-language manner (e.g., keep it transparent). But the language paradigm simply cannot be allowed to be converted from a focused, internally-consistent one into the mishm-mash of whatever (VB syntax? sure, use it in this context; want dot.sytax for OO? sure! use it here.. don't like the words stack, card etc.? heck, call them plates and saucers and, well, whatever). It simply will cease to be a coherent language at that point. And, whatever it will be, an x-Talk it will not. Part of the issue becomes the verbosity and having to use the \ line continuation frequently. Consider, version 1 get the currentColor() of trafficLight 4wayType of side west of avenue Hamilton of street Main of city Snowflake of state Arizona of country US vs version 2 signalA = US.Arizona.Snowflake.Main.Hamilton.West.4WayType.currentColor() signalB = US.Arizona.Snowflake.Main.Alex.East.LeftTurnType.currentColor() Some would prefer version 1, others are used to version 2. US.NV.Las Vegas.Ricardo.House.Ault.Jim :-) (Kinda has a ring to it, eh?) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
revOnline kaput?
All- Is revOnline usable? I no longer seem able to upload stacks. I get an There was an error executing a script in stack revOnlineSubstack 1140911382680. No more information is available because the stack is password protected. -- -Mark Wieder [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Please help to remove my curse
I have a dastardly curse on me. I pray that some kind soul can help. I have developed several application using Revolution Dreamcard 2.6 I was so happy with the products that I developed that I wanted to make them into standalones to share. So I updated Dreamcard to the latest Studio. I tried to save these programs as standalones. They are reported as having saved correctly. But when I click on the standalone icons the name of the application only appears for a fraction of a second in the menu bar, which then reverts to the finder. Nothing is launched, - or stays launched. After many tries Gave up saving I gave up using Studio. I downloaded the new StackRunner for Mac (the development platform). I installed Stackrunner. When I drag the icon of my original apps onto the StackRunner icon as instructed, it only open the window to choose an application to open. I click on my applications and the chooser window merely reappears. My simpler applications like “Soduko Solver” and “Keno Player” launch with StackRunner. My cherished, polished apps for translating Italian verbs and Nouns won’t become running standalones thru Studio, nor will launch thru StackRunner, although they perform PERFECTLY under the development software. I would gladly send anyone who could help me understand this dilemma a copy of these short files, if you would be willing to try to develop standalones on your system, or tell me what is causing the problem. Again, I pray that someone out there is willing to take a look to help me. I am including my e-mail address if you wish to contact me directly. PS. If my email filter bounce you back, please request to be admitted as a hopeful problem solver. dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Please help to remove my curse
David, Which operating system are you on and what exactly do you do before, while and after making the standalones? Best, Mark David Mendriski wrote: snip of the application only appears for a fraction of a second in the menu bar, which then reverts to the finder. Nothing is launched, - or stays launched. snip dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- Consultant and Software Engineer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.economy-x-talk.com eHUG coordinator mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ehug.info Advertise with us and reach 1000 truely interested internet users every month. See http://economy-x-talk.com/advertise.html for more information. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: On the Democratic Operation of Bugzilla
Since I started this conversation, I figured i ought to jump back in. In no way do I think Rev should do way with Bugzilla. Publicly disclosing bugs is useful. And it lends an air of credibility to one's products that is hard to attain any other way. Getting the community's input on what bugs are most important to fix is also a wonderful idea and one that I'm sure informs RR's decisions about where to spend Euros on updates. I would not want them to suspend this operation. That said, I still think Bugzilla is too uninformative, too difficult to use, and too obscure in the community to be as useful as it well could be. For openers, I'd like to see the Bugzilla database get more visibility somehow. Perhaps on the RR site there could be a link to a listing of the top 20 or 25 or 50 or whatever bugs. (Of course, that might not be as positive for marketing as I'd like to see!) Maybe there could be a mailing list on bugs and feature requests that could be a broadcast list to which one could subscribe and which would provide regular updates and lists. I don't know. Somewhere there's a way to approach this. I use RevZilla to manage my interaction with Bugzilla and I just discovered today that if you look at voting, you can get a list of all bugs with 1 or more votes, ranked in order by how many votes they have. Maybe that could become the source of some more visible way to expose Bugzilla and its contents? On 2/25/06, Rob Cozens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dan, et al: Voting says This is my relative (among outstanding bugs) priority for fixing the bug. Consider voting as contributing to a proposed budget for RRLtd's RD + Support: RRLtd gives you the opportunity to distribute $100 [ie 100 votes] among all the outstanding bug reports and enhancement requests, with the proviso that you could not allocate more than $5 [votes] to any single item. RRLtd then distributes all the unallocated $ [votes] however it sees fit. Like government, the larger the proportion of those voting, the greater the influence of the vote on the vote takers. Like government, your criticism carries less validity if you don't vote. So vote early and often! Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee. from The Triple Foole by John Donne (1572-1631) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- ~~ Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Internet Rich Applications Patent Granted
I don't know of any cases like this and it seems like it would be a pretty ineffective strategy but I wouldn't put it past anyone. On 2/25/06, Jim Lambert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If and when this patent gets prosecuted, it won't be against a small company. Outfits that patent these kinds of things go after huge fish first and hope everyone else falls into line thereafter. Sometimes they go after a small fish whose legal defense funds they can exhaust. Thus armed with a winning court precedent, they then reel in the bigger fi$h. Jim Lambert ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- ~~ Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript and Dot Notation
Seems like there's a fair bit of paranoia abroad in this land. Just making dot syntax an alternative -- or even implementing OO syntax using it -- doesn't have to corrupt the underlying Transcript syntax *except* for those people who choose an OO approach to their Rev projects. Hand-wringing about all the books (how many are there again?) and other documents suddenly moving away from the elegant xTalk syntax to dot notation for everything isn't necessary or appropriate because that's hardly inevitable. The Lingo case study doesn't work here because Macromedia essentially made an internal decision to move away from its proprietary syntax (which was quite xTalk-like) to dot notation. I was keenly aware of that decision-making process as a consultant to the company and I can tell you they were under a lot of pressure from *customers* to make that switch. There are a lot of linguistic-design and other technical reasons affecting language performance to consider the dot notation when you get into the dynamic allocation of instance methods and properties. Would you rather have: (a) No object orientation (b) OO with the current syntax with poor performance or (c) OO with dot notation and acceptable performance I'm not saying those are the *only* choices but they're the big ones. -- ~~ Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: On the Democratic Operation of Bugzilla
On 26/02/2006, at 0:50, Sarah Reichelt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip To digress slightly, I think the reason Rev appears to have so many bugs is because it is so versatile. We all use Rev in different ways to do widely different projects. I ignore some bugs because I never do the things they refer to. Others find the same bugs to be project blockers. Then again, some people use Rev in a way that the development team never imagined. That's great, but it means they will be the first to strike bugs in those areas. By comparison, testing a single-use application like a word-processor should be simple, but they still crash :-) Very true. Rev is a complex application. The productive efficiency of writing it in itself, as it were, should not fool anyone into believing otherwise. I wonder is the Rev team doing itself a disservice by letting all Rev users access the bug reports? While most people seem to value the chance to point out problems and influence future versions, some people regard a public bug list as an admission of failure. Maybe it would be better to restrict bugzilla to members of the improve-rev list or make it by invitation only. Perhaps rather than restricting it by fiat, RR could make access to the bug list voluntary, just as it allows switching on access to this list or doing so in digest or e-mail form. If you sign up then you also receive notifications of changes to the bug list [optionally Selected or All], the intention being to keep you actively involved while you continue your interest but shutting the list off from casual access. Sign-up would also be a moderated event. Thus, engage those who are interested (and allow them more votes) with full information available, still open in principle to anyone. Meanwhile, Rev could also provide a Problem report option under the Help menu where you did not have access directly to the bug list but had the opportunity to enter a problem, rate it on its own (with reasons), and have some lookup of related problems (based on selected category or on key terms) so that the user could also say their problem is the same as or like or unlike others which from their terms appear to be related. Thus, serious simplification with information concealment while still allowing free report. My general idea is to retain for all the ability to report to the real list even if that list remains behind the scenes, allow the simplest and easiest access for anyone to do so, and to engage more effectively by interaction the users motivated to provide comparative voting rather than one-off voting. Give me some critique and I will try making an enhancement proposal. These are speculative thoughts on my part. Just a few random thoughts, Sarah regards David ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript and Dot Notation
On 26 Feb 2006, at 02:01, Dan Shafer wrote: I'm not saying those are the *only* choices but they're the big ones. So I'd rather have OO with the current syntax and acceptable performance :) Mark ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: revOnline kaput?
I just uploaded/shared a stack on friday. Tom On Feb 25, 2006, at 6:54 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: All- Is revOnline usable? I no longer seem able to upload stacks. I get an There was an error executing a script in stack revOnlineSubstack 1140911382680. No more information is available because the stack is password protected. -- -Mark Wieder [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Thomas J McGrath III [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lazy River Software™ - http://www.lazyriversoftware.com Lazy River Metal Art™ - http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/metal.html Meeting Wear™ - http://www.cafepress.com/meetingwear Semantic Compaction Systems - http://www.minspeak.com SCIconics, LLC - http://www.sciconics.com/sciindex.html ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Please help to remove my curse
David, Send me the stack and I will try to build on Mac OSX and WinXP. Tom On Feb 25, 2006, at 7:56 PM, David Mendriski wrote: I have a dastardly curse on me. I pray that some kind soul can help. I have developed several application using Revolution Dreamcard 2.6 I was so happy with the products that I developed that I wanted to make them into standalones to share. So I updated Dreamcard to the latest Studio. I tried to save these programs as standalones. They are reported as having saved correctly. But when I click on the standalone icons the name of the application only appears for a fraction of a second in the menu bar, which then reverts to the finder. Nothing is launched, - or stays launched. After many tries Gave up saving I gave up using Studio. I downloaded the new StackRunner for Mac (the development platform). I installed Stackrunner. When I drag the icon of my original apps onto the StackRunner icon as instructed, it only open the window to choose an application to open. I click on my applications and the chooser window merely reappears. My simpler applications like “Soduko Solver” and “Keno Player” launch with StackRunner. My cherished, polished apps for translating Italian verbs and Nouns won’t become running standalones thru Studio, nor will launch thru StackRunner, although they perform PERFECTLY under the development software. I would gladly send anyone who could help me understand this dilemma a copy of these short files, if you would be willing to try to develop standalones on your system, or tell me what is causing the problem. Again, I pray that someone out there is willing to take a look to help me. I am including my e-mail address if you wish to contact me directly. PS. If my email filter bounce you back, please request to be admitted as a hopeful problem solver. dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Thomas J McGrath III [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lazy River Software™ - http://www.lazyriversoftware.com Lazy River Metal Art™ - http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/metal.html Meeting Wear™ - http://www.cafepress.com/meetingwear Semantic Compaction Systems - http://www.minspeak.com SCIconics, LLC - http://www.sciconics.com/sciindex.html ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript and Dot Notation
Dot-syntax blows. xTalk doesn't. The problem with allowing radically different syntax conventions is that you may soon wind up with a tool like *CENSORED*, where you can mix and match the syntaxes of *CENSORED*, and pretty soon ask yourself, why did I learn *CENSORED* and avoid learning *CENSORED* when this jackass who wrote this code decided it would be fun to mix them, which now makes my life harder? datetime.now.asString Come on. In some ways xTalk was OO when it was still HT (set the visibile of field Oompa to true). Don't make me instantiate objects. Don't make me declare variable types. That is SO 4GL. Incidentially, I can't talk about many of the details of *CENSORED* yet because it's still under wraps, but the fact that I can mix syntaxes in the same method is certainly not one of its strong points, IMHO. -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, This is good. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Export to pdf
Hi Marty, i have made a stack to export vectors to pdf. It is possible to create a stack that export text to pdf. Roger Eller sent me this stack long time ago. Now, the missing piece is exporting bitmap images to pdf. Who have the time to solve this task? alejandro -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Export-to-pdf-t1185078.html#a3129803 Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Win XP / Rev 2.7
I have had similar experiences to Dave. I have a fairly substantial client/server app, a student records system, using MySQL, and typically with 15 to 20 concurrent users on Win2K or XP (latest service packs). The app is launched from a read-only network volume. Rev 2.6.1 was very stable, both when working in the IDE (local stacks and db) and when deployed as a standalone on the network. That made me a little complacent, and I went ahead and upgraded the live app to 2.7 despite script editing in the IDE causing crashes (both the rev script editor and Constellation). Unfortunately the deployed standalone also exhibited stability problems, some text field related, others seemingly random crashes. Foolish me. I have reverted to 2.6.1 (many thanks to Chipp for the plugin) and all is perfectly stable again. I am happy that many people are using 2.7 without problems, but the experiences of a few of us on this list demonstrate there is an issue. Trying to come up with recipes for these type of crashes is extemely time consuming, especially for those that happen in the standalone and not the IDE. I wish I could provide more information, but time is not on my side. Steve Dave Beck wrote: For the record I want to say that when I installed Rev 2.7 on XP I had crashes many times a day as well. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
OT: Making Application Icons
Before I start a research project, let me ask: if your platform is Mac OSX and you want to make application icons for both Mac and Windows: what are our best tools? = some balance between -easy to use, -produces nice icons, -not too expensive and -doesn't have a UI 400 tools of which you only use 5 :-) I would typically start with some Illustrator file from our design team.. and then... ?? Sivakatirswami ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript and Dot Notation
Yes, perhaps (I don't agree, but obviously others would)... However... You now have TWO different ways of reading Transcript. How do you know when and how? And what if VB syntax gets added? and ... whatever else it is syntax that people can already do in some other pre-existing perfectly ugly language gets added? put theResult() it = Transcript becomes unreadable and unlearnable. Judy On Sat, 25 Feb 2006, Jim Ault wrote: Consider, version 1 get the currentColor() of trafficLight 4wayType of side west of avenue Hamilton of street Main of city Snowflake of state Arizona of country US vs version 2 signalA = US.Arizona.Snowflake.Main.Hamilton.West.4WayType.currentColor() signalB = US.Arizona.Snowflake.Main.Alex.East.LeftTurnType.currentColor() ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Win XP / Rev 2.7
Dave Beck wrote: For the record I want to say that when I installed Rev 2.7 on XP I had crashes many times a day as well. As odd as it may sound, this is actually good news, since it gives Runtime another data point. Do you have a crash log you could send in? That would help. If I remember right, you can click on a details button or some such when you get the crash error, which gives you a more specific error description, mostly in gibberish. If you could send that in, it may help. I was disappointed that such a severe problem made it into a release. I have no doubt the team is disappointed too. ;) Obviously it didn't occur in-house or for the beta testers, or they would have fixed it. All crashing bugs get top priority. ps. I am not using any plugins, I installed to a new folder (changed the default install path), and I upgraded from 2.6.1. The one stack I have had problems with was converted from 2.6.1. I work somewhat routinely with one other stack that unfortunately I did not save a copy of before opening with 2.7, so I am stuck with 2.7 for that stack. Rev has not crashed yet when I have been working with that stack. I will let the list know if that changes. Even if you can't get a crash log, it would be great if you could send in the stack that crashes. Since you have one that dives and one that doesn't, that tells us there is something about one type of stack that matters. Seeing a sample of one like that might really help. If you could submit to Bugzilla here: http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase Or if you can't, write to support and enclose it. They do want to fix this stuff. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript and Dot Notation
Nonetheless, as a result, Dan, Lingo became unlearnable/unapproachable from a verbos syntax point of view. And now it's dead. And, yes, the available books/list syntax help/whatever played a HUGE part. Handwringing has substantially less to do with it than the absolute dearth of verbose syntax learning aids that were available once the dot.syntax folks had their way. Given the pressure (you? Richard? others?) might exert, why should we think that Rev's approach would be any different than Macromedia's? e.g., kill the very x-talk nature of Transcript that many of bought into Rev because of? Can you name the x-Talk language that's done what you are asking for, remained an x-Talk, and survived? Does this mythic beast exist? Why are you not using it already then? Because it doesn't exist, I suspect. And why should you be able to get away with dismissing our concerns as mere paranoia? Do you really mean this? Does our money spend less well than yours? If, as you say, dropping support for verbose syntax is hardly inevitable, can you show a single case in a major surviving x-talk language where this is the case? What do you know that suggests history will not repeat itself? Do you really want to be the father of the end of the last major surviving x-Talk? Either Transcript is an x-Talk or it isn't. Without transparent implementation of OO, there simply is NOT a medium ground. Once you add dot.syntax, Transcript simply no longer is an x-Talk. Ditto, squared, for once you then add VB syntax to make those folks happy. And anything else that non-x-Talk people want for implementation into Transcript. Before you know it, what you will have is a mess of a language that almost no-one will be happy with, no-one can learn, and almost nobody will be willing to pay to use. I know I won't. Given your list of choices, I'm forced to select (a). When you're done, will there be sufficient remaining existing and potential users to keep the company afloat? Judy On Sat, 25 Feb 2006, Dan Shafer wrote: Seems like there's a fair bit of paranoia abroad in this land. Just making dot syntax an alternative -- or even implementing OO syntax using it -- doesn't have to corrupt the underlying Transcript syntax *except* for those people who choose an OO approach to their Rev projects. Hand-wringing about all the books (how many are there again?) and other documents suddenly moving away from the elegant xTalk syntax to dot notation for everything isn't necessary or appropriate because that's hardly inevitable. The Lingo case study doesn't work here because Macromedia essentially made an internal decision to move away from its proprietary syntax (which was quite xTalk-like) to dot notation. I was keenly aware of that decision-making process as a consultant to the company and I can tell you they were under a lot of pressure from *customers* to make that switch. There are a lot of linguistic-design and other technical reasons affecting language performance to consider the dot notation when you get into the dynamic allocation of instance methods and properties. Would you rather have: (a) No object orientation (b) OO with the current syntax with poor performance or (c) OO with dot notation and acceptable performance ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Please help to remove my curse
David Mendriski wrote: I have a dastardly curse on me. I pray that some kind soul can help. It isn't just you. :) I have developed several application using Revolution Dreamcard 2.6 I was so happy with the products that I developed that I wanted to make them into standalones to share. So I updated Dreamcard to the latest Studio. I tried to save these programs as standalones. They are reported as having saved correctly. But when I click on the standalone icons the name of the application only appears for a fraction of a second in the menu bar, which then reverts to the finder. Nothing is launched, - or stays launched. continuation of woe snipped Yup. This bug was just reported recently, and has now been fixed. It was obscure and very limited, only affecting stacks that were originally created in Dreamcard and later upgraded to Studio. But do not despair. I shall remove the curse (please close your eyes now as I wave this chicken over your head.) There. You'll be able to build standalones with the next release, appearing very soon. Hang on. There's also a workaround if you can't wait. I'll write it up and send it to you offlist. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Transcript and Dot Notation
Judy, I'm not saying this *should* be done, so please take it in the spirit it is meant, that is pure discussional value. Given your list of choices, I'm forced to select (a). When you're done, will there be sufficient remaining existing and potential users to keep the company afloat? The Mac end of development is pretty much cornered by Rev, RealBasic, QT C++ and a few also-rans. Many developers from .notation backgrounds (Delphi, VB, C++ Builder and more recently .Net) would jump at the chance to program for the Mac if they didn't have to learn a new language construct - which to them Revolution certainly is. RealBasic uses .Notation - but it's buggy, unstable and really rather crude (IMHO). If a development platform like Rev existed that had .Notation it would be a tremendous boon to the Mac software community as it would be quicker and easier to get up to speed (obvious user interface issues would still be a learning curve - but then so it is anybody writing for Mac the first time using Rev). Now - if I was running RunRev (and you can all be eternally glad I'm not g) I'd seriously look at creating a new product that did exactly that. A .Notation version of Rev. That would keep the X-Talkers happy and would bring in new blood - much faster - IMHO - than Rev does. I've recommended Rev to several developers who work with Windows .notation platforms. They have all been scared off by transcript as it is as alien to them as is .notation to many transcript people. Interestingly they have all also reject RealBasic (to buggy), QT C++ (to fragmented) and several new IDE's currently in the initial stages of release. I really do believe RunRev could increase their market share by a larger factor considering by considering this issue. It's a compromise. X-Talks for those that want it or .notation for those that do not. It's not a far stretch as many development platform companies (Borland and MS for example) do exactly that with, for example object Pascal, C++ etc all under their wing. Scott ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript and Dot Notation
My Gosh, Judy, you do get emotional about the strangest stuff. Lighten up. This is a theoretical discussion about language syntax, not a public policy decision that could result in the deaths of millions. Yeesh. I'll deal with your personal insult off-list because I don't believe in responding to flames in public. The reasons behind Lingo's death include the syntax issue but are far from limited to it. There were dozens of stupid mistakes made with that product, the least of which was probably the language change, which, as I said earlier, was made at the request of a significant number of users. Other comments inline below. On 2/25/06, Judy Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can you name the x-Talk language that's done what you are asking for, remained an x-Talk, and survived? Does this mythic beast exist? Why are you not using it already then? Because it doesn't exist, I suspect. Perhaps more to the point, can you name ANY surviving xTalk? Nope. They're all pretty much dead except for Transcript. I could argue with equal weight and perhaps a tad less vitriol that the *reason* they are dead is becuas they didn't adapt to the world of object orientation. You pick on the one thing about xTalks that you happen to like and declare it the ultimate feature without which the language will die but the issue is so much more complex than that. And why should you be able to get away with dismissing our concerns as mere paranoia? Do you really mean this? Does our money spend less well than yours? As I said, I'll deal with this insult offlist. If, as you say, dropping support for verbose syntax is hardly inevitable, can you show a single case in a major surviving x-talk language where this is the case? What do you know that suggests history will not repeat itself? If there were any surviving xTalks this question might even have been interesting. Do you really want to be the father of the end of the last major surviving x-Talk? Leave out the word major. And anyone on this list who knows me -- which you clearly do not despite repeated efforts on my part to be kind to you -- will laugh at the stupidity of that question. There are probably not a lot of people on the planet who have done more to help tools like this one survive than me and that's not bragging. I have argued strongly against some language pollution that I thought would harm Transcript. That we disagree about whether this particular change would have a deleterioius effect is -- or should be -- a matter of linguistic and academic interest and preference, not personal attack. Either Transcript is an x-Talk or it isn't. Who says? What body standardizes the definition of xTalk? Hell, 'xTalk' isn't even a word. The x stands for uinknown or generic. Without transparent implementation of OO, there simply is NOT a medium ground. Perhaps you are a programming language compiler expert and you really know this. I disagree and I suspect I have at least as much basis for my view as you do for yours. Once you add dot.syntax, Transcript simply no longer is an x-Talk. Ditto, squared, for once you then add VB syntax to make those folks happy. And anything else that non-x-Talk people want for implementation into Transcript. I do not advocate adding VB or other syntax. This discussion is about how best to implement object orientation syntactically in a language that has historically been not at all object oriented but only object-like. If RR decides not to implement OO into Transcript, I won't lose any sleep over it and I sure won't abandon it. As I said, lighten up. This is (or at least started out as) a friendly discussion about how to adpot objects in Transcript. Before you know it, what you will have is a mess of a language that almost no-one will be happy with, no-one can learn, and almost nobody will be willing to pay to use. I know I won't. So what you're saying is that if RR chooses to adopt an object orientation and adopts a syntax you don't like, you'll stop using the best tool on the market for building xplat apps? Wow, that's really wise. Given your list of choices, I'm forced to select (a). When you're done, will there be sufficient remaining existing and potential users to keep the company afloat? Strange question. My question would be whether there are enough existing and potential users NOW to keep the company afloat in a sea of Ruby and Python and Java and JavaScript, all of which use object orientation. -- ~~ Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript and Dot Notation
On Feb 25, 2006, at 9:50 PM, Dan Shafer wrote: My Gosh, Judy, you do get emotional about the strangest stuff. Lighten up. This is a theoretical discussion about language syntax, not a public policy decision that could result in the deaths of millions. Yeesh. I'll deal with your personal insult off-list because I don't believe in responding to flames in public. When you say others on the list are paranoid, are you not insulting them? -Garrett ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript and Dot Notation
On Feb 25, 2006, at 9:55 PM, Scott Kane wrote: [snip] It's a compromise. X-Talks for those that want it or .notation for those that do not. It's not a far stretch as many development platform Wouldn't it be smarter to just leave Rev alone and simply produce another standalone product that fits the dot. ideals? Don't even mix the two at all, just make separate products. It would be totally asinine to mutilate Rev into some abomination. -Garrett ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Transcript and Dot Notation
Scott, Creating a .notation of Rev will NOT keep strict x-Talkers happy. I may be the most vocal opponent, but I suspect I am far, far, from the only one. And, well, probably *everyone's* happy that I'm not in charge... ;-) Judy On Sun, 26 Feb 2006, Scott Kane wrote: Judy, The Mac end of development is pretty much cornered by Rev, RealBasic, QT C++ and a few also-rans. Many developers from .notation backgrounds (Delphi, VB, C++ Builder and more recently .Net) would jump at the chance to program for the Mac if they didn't have to learn a new language construct - which to them Revolution certainly is. RealBasic uses .Notation - but it's buggy, unstable and really rather crude (IMHO). If a development platform like Rev existed that had .Notation it would be a tremendous boon to the Mac software community as it would be quicker and easier to get up to speed (obvious user interface issues would still be a learning curve - but then so it is anybody writing for Mac the first time using Rev). Now - if I was running RunRev (and you can all be eternally glad I'm not g) I'd seriously look at creating a new product that did exactly that. A .Notation version of Rev. That would keep the X-Talkers happy and would bring in new blood - much faster - IMHO - than Rev does. I've recommended Rev to several developers who work with Windows .notation platforms. They have all been scared off by transcript as it is as alien to them as is .notation to many transcript people. Interestingly they have all also reject RealBasic (to buggy), QT C++ (to fragmented) and several new IDE's currently in the initial stages of release. I really do believe RunRev could increase their market share by a larger factor considering by considering this issue. It's a compromise. X-Talks for those that want it or .notation for those that do not. It's not a far stretch as many development platform companies (Borland and MS for example) do exactly that with, for example object Pascal, C++ etc all under their wing. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Transcript and Dot Notation
Wouldn't it be smarter to just leave Rev alone and simply produce another standalone product that fits the dot. ideals? Don't even mix the two at all, just make separate products. It would be totally asinine to mutilate Rev into some abomination. Err - that's exactly the intention of my post. No need to mutilate Rev. The language (any language) is just an abstraction layer between the IDE and the compiler. Scott ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript and Dot Notation
Dan, Wait a minute... *MY* personal insult??? Weren't you the one who dealt my argument the death blow of being mere paranoia? After having personally resurrected it from irrelevantdom? Does it get more personal than that? I am paranoid therefore my arguments need not be considered? And I was just about to issue a postscript to remind people that I wasn't attacking you, only your argument that people who oppose dot.syntax are paranoid... Forget Jeesh. Holy cow! It was not a personal attack. I posited that I thought dot.syntax was an unwise addition to the language. You responded by saying that my argument constituted paranoia. Now, that's personal. You didn't say that my argument was wrong... no, you said I was paranoid. That's personal. Did I say you were a jerk? No, but you said I was paranoid. Can no-one disagree with your positions without resulting rancor? Judy On Sat, 25 Feb 2006, Dan Shafer wrote: My Gosh, Judy, you do get emotional about the strangest stuff. Lighten up. This is a theoretical discussion about language syntax, not a public policy decision that could result in the deaths of millions. Yeesh. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Transcript and Dot Notation
Judy, Creating a .notation of Rev will NOT keep strict x-Talkers happy. I may be the most vocal opponent, but I suspect I am far, far, from the only one. Why would a version of a product that you yourself would never use be something you'd be opposed to? I'm not sure I follow you... Cheers Scott ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript and Dot Notation
Is there a Transcript implementation of dot syntax? Or how do non-dot people learn about the benefits of dots? If the dot folks could wrap the dots within Transcript handlers, maybe they could offer a dot library, like libDot. Or could a macro language do the trick? What do dots enable that Transcript does not? Looking forward to more good humor on the list. The Entourage spell checker suggests replacing libDot with libido. -- Dick On 2/25/06 10:26 PM, Judy Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scott, Creating a .notation of Rev will NOT keep strict x-Talkers happy. I may be the most vocal opponent, but I suspect I am far, far, from the only one. And, well, probably *everyone's* happy that I'm not in charge... ;-) Judy On Sun, 26 Feb 2006, Scott Kane wrote: Judy, The Mac end of development is pretty much cornered by Rev, RealBasic, QT C++ and a few also-rans. Many developers from .notation backgrounds (Delphi, VB, C++ Builder and more recently .Net) would jump at the chance to program for the Mac if they didn't have to learn a new language construct - which to them Revolution certainly is. RealBasic uses .Notation - but it's buggy, unstable and really rather crude (IMHO). If a development platform like Rev existed that had .Notation it would be a tremendous boon to the Mac software community as it would be quicker and easier to get up to speed (obvious user interface issues would still be a learning curve - but then so it is anybody writing for Mac the first time using Rev). Now - if I was running RunRev (and you can all be eternally glad I'm not g) I'd seriously look at creating a new product that did exactly that. A .Notation version of Rev. That would keep the X-Talkers happy and would bring in new blood - much faster - IMHO - than Rev does. I've recommended Rev to several developers who work with Windows .notation platforms. They have all been scared off by transcript as it is as alien to them as is .notation to many transcript people. Interestingly they have all also reject RealBasic (to buggy), QT C++ (to fragmented) and several new IDE's currently in the initial stages of release. I really do believe RunRev could increase their market share by a larger factor considering by considering this issue. It's a compromise. X-Talks for those that want it or .notation for those that do not. It's not a far stretch as many development platform companies (Borland and MS for example) do exactly that with, for example object Pascal, C++ etc all under their wing. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Transcript and Dot Notation
Is there a Transcript implementation of dot syntax? Or how do non-dot people learn about the benefits of dots? If the dot folks could wrap the dots within Transcript handlers, maybe they could offer a dot library, like libDot. Or could a macro language do the trick? What do dots enable that Transcript does not? Properties and methods. Looking forward to more good humor on the list. :-) The Entourage spell checker suggests replacing libDot with libido. Sexy object orientated code? Sounds good. g Scott ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Rép : So long and thanks for all the st acks...
Let's end this thread. It serves no useful purpose. While I wholeheartedly agree, I do think it is crucial that any lurkers out there recognize that Xavier's issues with Rev had nothing to do with Rev as a development environment--despite what his initial post may have suggested. As for the rest, 'nuff said. Marian ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Delete data in delimited string
Greetings, How do I delete one field of data from a delimited string? Such as: item 1,item 2, item 3, item 4 And I want to delete item 3 from the delimited string so that I end up with: item 1,item 2, item 4 Thanks, -Garrett ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
