Re: Why isn't Rev more popular?
I think Rev has a big potential. I'm an old user of Asymetrix Toolbook (I used it up to version 3). It was great. Even if I'm a analyst/programmer, I don't think the programmers already have all the instruments. In this new age (network age), the real missing system is a way to create rich client programs (and I think Rev is (could be) a great competitor in this area), since even if there is AJAX, Macromedia Flash & co, XUL, Java, etc... they have some big problems (my opinion): 1) some of them cannot access to local PC resources 2) some of them are too much multimedia oriented (streaming, movies, games, etc) 3) some of them are too heavy in client-side 4) some of them are NOT multiplatform 5) some of them raise several problems for distribution (many files, runtime environments, auto updating, etc...) Basically Rev seems solve these problems (but DLL and ".so" functionalities are not yet enought evolved...). I think, talking about Rich clients (light, full-featured applications, with a rich set of network functionalities) I think the only one, real competitor is "Rebol" (but...). So, I think Rev should follow the way of multimedia (but not Flash like...) and Rich Client programs. --Alessandro On 12/1/05, Wolfgang Bereuter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On 01.12.2005, at 02:50, Mark Swindell wrote: > > > What is the main reason (if there is such a thing) that Rev is not > > more popular among professional developers/programmers? > > Because professional developers are (should) *not*, did I say *not* > the right target market für that kind of tool rev is. I have said > that so many times here, so i dont want to annoy all of you here again. > > regards > Wolfgang M. Bereuter > > T-mapping(c) is PhotoLearning Mindmaps! > ... > http://www.internettrainer.com > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ... > Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria > Tel: ++43/1/ 479 6410 > Fax: ++43/1/ 955 14 64-198 > > > ___ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Why isn't Rev more popular?
I think RunRev is not yet so mature (and maybe a little too expensive...) to be used in big company projects (not only to create beautiful electronic books, kiosks, etc...). On 12/1/05, Thomas McGrath III <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I thought Rev was becoming very popular. > > Tom > On Nov 30, 2005, at 8:50 PM, Mark Swindell wrote: > > > What is the main reason (if there is such a thing) that Rev is not > > more popular among professional developers/programmers? It's been > > around awhile now. People have had a chance to hear about it. It > > has garnered some awards, at least on the Mac side. On the face of > > things you'd think it would be more popular. > > > > Just curious to hear what people think. > > Mark___ > > use-revolution mailing list > > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > ___ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: DLL usage in RunRev
I didn't see the RunRev sdk, but I think you agree. I think SDK was created to be used with C or C++. Neither Delphi nor Visual Basic, etc... On 11/28/05, Mark Wieder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Alessandro- > > Monday, November 28, 2005, 1:15:45 PM, you wrote: > > > Sorry Mark, but in my company I already use Delphi to create DLLs > > (using "cdecl" option for parameters passing) ;-) > > Yes, sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you couldn't create DLLs, just > that you probably can't create *runrev-compatible* DLLs. > > -- > -Mark Wieder > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ___ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: DLL usage in RunRev
Sorry Mark, but in my company I already use Delphi to create DLLs (using "cdecl" option for parameters passing) ;-) I don't know if I can use Delphi to create dll specific for RunRev, but Delphi can create dll for windows (and, of course, I can read/use every dll). Some problems occurred in older Delphi versions (more about ocx). But now the situation seems ok. On 11/28/05, Mark Wieder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Alessandro- > > Monday, November 28, 2005, 8:01:14 AM, you wrote: > > > It worked, but only RunRev dlls (sure compiled with RunRev toolkit). > > I currently work in Delphi (but I know other "low-level" programming > > languages) and I not yet understand why RunRev makes the difference > > between RunRev-DLL and Non-RunRev DLLs. > > I doubt you'll be able to create compatible DLLs using Delphi. I know > you can't do it using Borland's C++ compilers. I wish it were > otherwise, but it's a limitation in Borland's linker. You can't get > the right combination of options to create a DLL that is recognized by > the engine.. > > > Basically, the dll has a unique structure; the only difference is > > parameters passing using stack (from left to right: pascal-style; > > right-to-left: C-style). > > There are other differences as well. You need to be able to export > items in Mixed Case and without a leading underscore. You need to be > able to specify that the calling routine (not the called one) has the > responsibility for cleaning up the stack after the call. > > -- > -Mark Wieder > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ___ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: DLL usage in RunRev
Thank you Ken for your support. I discovered I forgot to insert a "the" in front of "externals" :-( It worked, but only RunRev dlls (sure compiled with RunRev toolkit). I currently work in Delphi (but I know other "low-level" programming languages) and I not yet understand why RunRev makes the difference between RunRev-DLL and Non-RunRev DLLs. Basically, the dll has a unique structure; the only difference is parameters passing using stack (from left to right: pascal-style; right-to-left: C-style). However... I will use this proxy-like system, using VBS (great example!). Thank you! On 11/28/05, Ken Ray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 11/28/05 4:27 AM, "Rishi Viner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Hi Ken, > > > > Thanks for the great tip (below). Do you have any links / info / experience > > in > > doing this with Linux .so (shared object) files? I would be interested in > > doing this with database drivers to isolate myself from version changes. Any > > help / links appreciated... > > Sorry, Rishi... no experience here on Linux .so files; I've only used Linux > to test and run stacks/apps that didn't need them so I'm not much help here. > > > Ken Ray > Sons of Thunder Software > Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ___ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: DLL usage in RunRev
Thank you for suggestions and links ;-) But I noticed a bit of confusion about this argument (inside forum and mailing-list, and RunRev documentation). I will try to be more specific. Please read the this (from mailing list): Hi Eric, here's the script from MetaCard's stack components... on mouseUp local f if the platform is "Win32" then put "*.dll" into f else put "*" into f answer file "Choose an external:" with "external" with filter f if it is not empty then set the itemDelimiter to "/" if field "List" is not empty then put return after field "List" put the last item of it after field "List" set the externals of stack the label of button "Stack Name" to field "List" end if end mouseUp Author says it functions correctly. But the RunRev documentation about "externals" suggests to close (destroy) and open stack. What's the right procedure (how to use externals and close/open stack without loosing externals configuration)? More: let's suppose I need to use a generic DLL (not RunRev specific). And let's suppose this dll is already registered. Can you suggest the the smartest method to register and use it? I tried to use some windows dll (just to try) using the previous code, but nothing happened (only errors...). My second problem is I have not a dll to test (my application must be able to use any dll, based on a script supplied from another program...). So... can you suggest me a proven method to use a generic windows dll? Last item (I'm sorry): and about ".so" Linux files? Or Linux dynamic library? Thank you in advance for your help! --Alessandro On 11/28/05, Ken Ray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 11/27/05 5:12 AM, "Alessandro Manotti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > can someone help me to understand how to use a Windows DLL in RunRev? > > Allesandro, we just went over this topic a few weeks back. It's detailed in > the tip at my site: > > http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/tips/ext002.htm > > Basically an DLL is either built exclusively for Revolution using the > headers/source provided in the Externals kit, or it is a third party DLL (a > "normal" DLL"). Revolution externals are loaded with the "set the externals > to " command (see "externals" in the Transcript > Dictionary), and third party DLLs *can* be used, but you have to provide an > intermediary to call them (see the tip). > > Hope this helps, > > Ken Ray > Sons of Thunder Software > Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ___ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
DLL usage in RunRev
Hello, can someone help me to understand how to use a Windows DLL in RunRev? I cannot find the exact function to load a library and use the functions contained inside. :-( Thank you! ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Use Ms Windows DLL
Hello, can someone help me to understand how to use a Windows DLL in RunRev? I cannot find the exact function to load a library and use the functions contained inside. :-( Thank you! ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: SHA-1 algorithm in xTalk?
Great! But I think this solution will raise the problem of security who David was talking about. If everything would be included in self-contained executable, or in RuRev player, maybe the security problem could be solved. On 11/22/05, David Bovill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Thanks! > > On 22 Nov 2005, at 12:22, Wouter wrote: > > > Which is easy to do with shell() and openssl. > > > SHA-1 has been compromised too. > > http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/02/sha1_broken.html > > http://www.rsasecurity.com/rsalabs/node.asp?id=2927 > > etc. > > Bummer isn't it :) > ___ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: SHA-1 algorithm in xTalk?
On 11/21/05, David Bovill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The SSL libraries that RunRev uses should be able to do this - and I > would have thought considerably faster than a native and possibly > less secure Transcript implementation - no? > What do you mean when you talk about "less secure"? SHA-1 is a function that returns a UNIQUE code based on the input. That's all. Basically, I think RunRev should implement a function to calculate SHA-1, like md5 digest. This function should be distributed inside the player (no external .dll / .so required). SHA-1 should not be implemented in transcript (my 2 cents opinion :-) ) Digital signature, or public/private keys are other things (they require security). If RunRev player implements sha-1, then in transcript one can manage certificates, etc... but without sha-1 algorithm --Alessandro ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: SHA-1 algorithm in xTalk?
Sorry if I introduce myself in this posts. Please note that md5 is no more reliable! Since it was officially cracked. Even Sha-0 was cracked, but it is far incomplete/primitive then sha-1, which is the only reliable hash system to verify digital signature, software integrity, etc... Sorry again... --Alessandro On 11/21/05, David Bovill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > No but I need it badly for digital signatures! Don't think anyone > knows about this though :( > > > On 19 Nov 2005, at 03:10, Phil Davis wrote: > > > I don't know much about hashes - is SHA-1 enough better than Rev's > > md5digest to warrant paying someone to do it? Or will md5digest do > > what you need? > > > > Phil Davis > > > > > > Frank Leahy wrote: > > > >> Has anyone ported the SHA-1 algorithm to xTalk? (see http:// > >> www.movable-type.co.uk/scripts/SHA-1.html for details) > >> If not, would anyone be willing to port it for $$? > >> Regards, > >> -- Frank > ___ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Calling webservices from RR
Sorry Andre, you agree, RunRev can manage xml. But as you know, soap is not easy to be coded, even if you have powerful xml tools. But since soap is becoming much famous, I think Runtime Revolution company should provide a tested library (a lot of client and server programming languages already supply that). Furthermore, since RunRev is a perfect tool for rich-client creation, I think a good, full-featured, official library, should be definetively supplied. --Alessandro On 11/18/05, Andre Garzia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi There folks, > > welcome to the Revolution. As a matter of fact Rev can do > webservices, any webservices you want as long as you can code. It's > not as simply as some languages where you drop a WSDL file and all > the methods are added. There are libraries for SOAP and XML-RPC. The > SOAP library, I think its being redone at this moment, so the current > one is deprecated, since I hate Soap I don't keep following it. The > XML-RPC one (my choice for web services) work very fine. Before Rev > sported a official XML-RPC library, I was able to code my own XML-RPC > stack very easy. Revolution socket routines are very powerful, if you > understand the string manipulation ones and the XML ones, then you > can DIY anything that goes thru HTTP. > > If you want to use server side libraries instead of client ones, you > must code your own, but they are easy to do, and if you also use > libCGI they are even easier to do. > > You don't need altBrowser for that, but anyone working with Rev and > web will find a very nice friend in both altBrowser and altSQLite. As > it appears below, you're controlling both sides of the system, well, > if you're making the client and the server in Rev, and your app won't > need to interface with foreign clients then you can throw the > standards to the wind and create your own web services spec as it > suits you but keep in mind, both Soap and XML-RPC are just fancy XML, > it's very easy to use them in Rev. > > Cheers > andre > > PS: I'll try creating some demo stacks in the near future. > > On Nov 18, 2005, at 10:49 AM, Alessandro Manotti wrote: > > > Hi, > > I had the same problem. > > I search in internet, and everything I found was an unofficial stack > > (it seems old...) to use soap. > > So I reached this conclusion: I use RunRev power to manage xml (not > > soap), then I create a jsp page (or javabean) in a Java server which > > will act as a service broker. So the "hard job" will be done in the > > server, then I send/receive data from/to RunRev in xml :-) > > > > Obviously, you can use any web server-language you wish (php, zope, > > python, perl, etc...). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 11/18/05, Ton Kuypers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> Has anyone experience with using Windows Webservices from within > >> Revolution applications and interacting with them? > >> If not directly, maybe via altBrowser? > >> > >> Before I start testing en getting specs from the developers of these > >> Webservices, it would be nice to know if I can use them... > >> > >> regards, > >> > >> Ton Kuypers > >> ___ > >> use-revolution mailing list > >> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > >> > > ___ > > use-revolution mailing list > > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > ___ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Calling webservices from RR
Hi, I had the same problem. I search in internet, and everything I found was an unofficial stack (it seems old...) to use soap. So I reached this conclusion: I use RunRev power to manage xml (not soap), then I create a jsp page (or javabean) in a Java server which will act as a service broker. So the "hard job" will be done in the server, then I send/receive data from/to RunRev in xml :-) Obviously, you can use any web server-language you wish (php, zope, python, perl, etc...). On 11/18/05, Ton Kuypers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > Has anyone experience with using Windows Webservices from within > Revolution applications and interacting with them? > If not directly, maybe via altBrowser? > > Before I start testing en getting specs from the developers of these > Webservices, it would be nice to know if I can use them... > > regards, > > Ton Kuypers > ___ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
