Re: OT: Is there a more English-like Programming language than Transcript?
Bridger Maxwell wrote: Hey, I was just getting the Revolution update and I happened to notice that on one of the little info screens it displays as it installs it says, "You don't have to have a degree in programming to develop in Revolution. Revolution uses an easy to understand English-based language also called Revolution." That sounds pretty official that the language is no longer called "Transcipt" anymore by the people at Runrev. (Realize that I was paraphrasing a little except for the sentence "language also called Revolution" because I don't have a photographic memory). TTFN Bridger Oh it's official all right, but the sentence you quote serves to highlight the linguistic folly of the move. "The boards are joined together using a tool called 'hammer' which drives in metal pins also called 'hammer'". I recall that in the 1990's Apple decided that it would discourage customers from calling their computers "Mac" or "Macintosh" and instead dictated that they should in future be referred to as "Apple Macintosh" or "AppleMac". This was actually adopted by a minority of users, and is occasionally still seen today. I regard it as evidence of the date at which those people started using the platform. Apple has moved on though. The marketing argument was no doubt sound on its own terms, but why waste your energy pushing a pea uphill with a pointed stick? Around here, when town planners build a new open space, they usually build footpaths around the periphery of the grassy area, it looks nice on the renderings and models probably. To the planners' surprise, people end up walking across the grass, because that is the shortest route between the access points. This wears a track across the grass. Sooner or later, the town council gives in and paves the natural track. As an on-and-off-musician, with some history of naming bands as well as creative projects in general, I would say that a name people are unembarrassed to include in conversation is many times more valuable than a name that makes people feel silly or awkward when they say it. how *do* you pronounce "postgres"? Martin Baxter ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Is there a more English-like Programming language than Transcript?
Hey, I was just getting the Revolution update and I happened to notice that on one of the little info screens it displays as it installs it says, "You don't have to have a degree in programming to develop in Revolution. Revolution uses an easy to understand English-based language also called Revolution." That sounds pretty official that the language is no longer called "Transcipt" anymore by the people at Runrev. (Realize that I was paraphrasing a little except for the sentence "language also called Revolution" because I don't have a photographic memory). TTFN Bridger On 8/15/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Chipp, Thanks for the kind words. I'm always gratified when I hear folks implement the suggestions. Dan and I had a short talk after the conference about me giving a full session to disseminate similar marketing morsels. We both concluded that those who might benefit most would probably not attend. Glad to hear you ran with it! PL -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Sent: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 8:44 AM Subject: Re: OT: Is there a more English-like Programming language than Transcript? Excellent point Paul. You often say the most interesting things! Thanks again for the advice about pricing you gave at the conference. I've implemented it on ButtonGadget and it seems to work :-) On 8/15/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You can be more specific with more knowledgeable people. > When I travel overseas and people ask where I'm from, I say "The > United States". When people ask in the US, I say "California". If they > live on the west coast, I'll probably say "Los Angeles". If they live > in California, I'll just say "LA". If they live in greater LA, I'll say > "San Dimas". If they live in San Dimas, I'll say "The corner of > Commercial St." > Sometimes "Revolution" is right. Sometimes "Transcript". Transcript > definitely has its place and it is seldom difficult to know when to use > it. > Paul Looney ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Is there a more English-like Programming language than Transcript?
Chipp, Thanks for the kind words. I'm always gratified when I hear folks implement the suggestions. Dan and I had a short talk after the conference about me giving a full session to disseminate similar marketing morsels. We both concluded that those who might benefit most would probably not attend. Glad to hear you ran with it! PL -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Sent: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 8:44 AM Subject: Re: OT: Is there a more English-like Programming language than Transcript? Excellent point Paul. You often say the most interesting things! Thanks again for the advice about pricing you gave at the conference. I've implemented it on ButtonGadget and it seems to work :-) On 8/15/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You can be more specific with more knowledgeable people. > When I travel overseas and people ask where I'm from, I say "The > United States". When people ask in the US, I say "California". If they > live on the west coast, I'll probably say "Los Angeles". If they live > in California, I'll just say "LA". If they live in greater LA, I'll say > "San Dimas". If they live in San Dimas, I'll say "The corner of > Commercial St." > Sometimes "Revolution" is right. Sometimes "Transcript". Transcript > definitely has its place and it is seldom difficult to know when to use > it. > Paul Looney ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Is there a more English-like Programming language, than Transcript?
Bob Warren wrote: And my site, which mentions the name "Revolution" quite a lot, is constantly visited by the US military. I wonder why? Getting started early for this year's Jam Echelon Day on Oct. 21, eh? :) -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Is there a more English-like Programming language, than Transcript?
Peter T. Evensen wrote: > The problem is "Revolution" is a normal word. Other names, like "ReadBasic," are more unique, and will always take you to where you want to go. And my site, which mentions the name "Revolution" quite a lot, is constantly visited by the US military. I wonder why? Bob ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Is there a more English-like Programming language than Transcript?
Type in 'Runtime Revolution', its formal long name, and it comes up first. I always refer to 'Runtime' when speaking to others about it.. I hesitate to bring this up, but one problem with "Revolution" is the name. It is a unsearchable name. Image this guy going and Googling "Revolution." Will the RunRev site come up? It's the 6th link when I do it, and it comes up after "Revolution Software" which sounds like what one would want. Frankly I'm impressed the RunRev site appears 6th. The problem is "Revolution" is a normal word. Other names, like "ReadBasic," are more unique, and will always take you to where you want to go. At 10:45 PM 8/14/2006, you wrote: I said "Revolution" He said "Hmm never heard of Revolution. Oops gotta go... I'm up next" I don't think I should to have said "coded in transcipt" at that moment. Sivakatirswami Peter T. Evensen -- stephen barncard s a n f r a n c i s c o - - - - - - - - - - - - ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Is there a more English-like Programming language than Transcript?
Excellent point Paul. You often say the most interesting things! Thanks again for the advice about pricing you gave at the conference. I've implemented it on ButtonGadget and it seems to work :-) On 8/15/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: You can be more specific with more knowledgeable people. When I travel overseas and people ask where I'm from, I say "The United States". When people ask in the US, I say "California". If they live on the west coast, I'll probably say "Los Angeles". If they live in California, I'll just say "LA". If they live in greater LA, I'll say "San Dimas". If they live in San Dimas, I'll say "The corner of Commercial St." Sometimes "Revolution" is right. Sometimes "Transcript". Transcript definitely has its place and it is seldom difficult to know when to use it. Paul Looney ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Is there a more English-like Programming language than Transcript?
You can be more specific with more knowledgeable people. When I travel overseas and people ask where I'm from, I say "The United States". When people ask in the US, I say "California". If they live on the west coast, I'll probably say "Los Angeles". If they live in California, I'll just say "LA". If they live in greater LA, I'll say "San Dimas". If they live in San Dimas, I'll say "The corner of Commercial St." Sometimes "Revolution" is right. Sometimes "Transcript". Transcript definitely has its place and it is seldom difficult to know when to use it. Paul Looney -Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Sent: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:25 PM Subject: Re: OT: Is there a more English-like Programming language than Transcript? Sivakatirswami wrote: > We just came back from a two-day NewsTrain conference for journalists, > put on by Associated Press and the Knight foundation. We showed our > Hinduism Today Digital Edition to a few people, one of whom is the > "critically acclaimed, award winning web developer" Rob Curley (see robcurley.com) who has helped produce the > "best news sites on the net" web sites. (right, you may never have heard > of him... this is in journalism--check out his latest > production www.naplesnews.com... it's incredible, even if the content is > "pop-local" click things under the dot.cool section) > > This man hired away some of Google's top engineers to join his IT > team... he pays each one of back end IT team way up in the 6 figures, > and any intern (he's big on $8/per hour "internology") lucky enough to > work with him will leave his team and get 6 figures. > > OK, so, we have this 2 minute window to talk with him about what we do > while he boots up Powerpoint on his 17" Macbook Pro. His first question > was: "Hmmm, interesting, what is that coded in?" he's a super geek and > didn't care about content--he wanted to know the technology behind it. > > I said "Revolution" He said "Hmm never heard of Revolution. Oops gotta > go... I'm up next" > > I don't think I should to have said "coded in transcipt" at that moment. Precisely. No one does, any more than they'd answer "Lingo" when they're referring to Director. Like any proprietary language, Transcript cannot be used outside of the Revolution engine. When talking with outsiders who ask about the development system it's appropriate and certainly clearer to just use the name of that system. But that system includes many parts: language + object model + IDE + whatever tools you've added. Having a name which describes the language as distinct from the other parts that make up the Rev development system is useful for those conversations where the distinction matters, such as documentation and tutorials aimed at Rev developers. I've never seen any context where the Transcript programming language is mentioned without also mentioning the Revolution development system needed to use it. This has never been a problem for any of the languages sold by wonderfully successul companies for decades, and it's never been a problem for Rev. -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Is there a more English-like Programming language than Transcript?
I hesitate to bring this up, but one problem with "Revolution" is the name. It is a unsearchable name. Image this guy going and Googling "Revolution." Will the RunRev site come up? It's the 6th link when I do it, and it comes up after "Revolution Software" which sounds like what one would want. Frankly I'm impressed the RunRev site appears 6th. The problem is "Revolution" is a normal word. Other names, like "ReadBasic," are more unique, and will always take you to where you want to go. At 10:45 PM 8/14/2006, you wrote: I said "Revolution" He said "Hmm never heard of Revolution. Oops gotta go... I'm up next" I don't think I should to have said "coded in transcipt" at that moment. Sivakatirswami Peter T. Evensen http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com 314-629-5248 or 888-682-4588 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Is there a more English-like Programming language than Transcript?
ho ho ho I am smiling now!!! :-) On Aug 15, 2006, at 12:45 AM, Sivakatirswami wrote: OK, so, we have this 2 minute window to talk with him about what we do while he boots up Powerpoint on his 17" Macbook Pro. His first question was: "Hmmm, interesting, what is that coded in?" he's a super geek and didn't care about content--he wanted to know the technology behind it. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Is there a more English-like Programming language than Transcript?
Sivakatirswami wrote: We just came back from a two-day NewsTrain conference for journalists, put on by Associated Press and the Knight foundation. We showed our Hinduism Today Digital Edition to a few people, one of whom is the "critically acclaimed, award winning web developer" Rob Curley (see robcurley.com) who has helped produce the "best news sites on the net" web sites. (right, you may never have heard of him... this is in journalism--check out his latest production www.naplesnews.com... it's incredible, even if the content is "pop-local" click things under the dot.cool section) This man hired away some of Google's top engineers to join his IT team... he pays each one of back end IT team way up in the 6 figures, and any intern (he's big on $8/per hour "internology") lucky enough to work with him will leave his team and get 6 figures. OK, so, we have this 2 minute window to talk with him about what we do while he boots up Powerpoint on his 17" Macbook Pro. His first question was: "Hmmm, interesting, what is that coded in?" he's a super geek and didn't care about content--he wanted to know the technology behind it. I said "Revolution" He said "Hmm never heard of Revolution. Oops gotta go... I'm up next" I don't think I should to have said "coded in transcipt" at that moment. Precisely. No one does, any more than they'd answer "Lingo" when they're referring to Director. Like any proprietary language, Transcript cannot be used outside of the Revolution engine. When talking with outsiders who ask about the development system it's appropriate and certainly clearer to just use the name of that system. But that system includes many parts: language + object model + IDE + whatever tools you've added. Having a name which describes the language as distinct from the other parts that make up the Rev development system is useful for those conversations where the distinction matters, such as documentation and tutorials aimed at Rev developers. I've never seen any context where the Transcript programming language is mentioned without also mentioning the Revolution development system needed to use it. This has never been a problem for any of the languages sold by wonderfully successul companies for decades, and it's never been a problem for Rev. -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Is there a more English-like Programming language than Transcript?
This supposedly hip web guy still uses Powerpoint? H... This man hired away some of Google's top engineers to join his IT team... he pays each one of back end IT team way up in the 6 figures, and any intern (he's big on $8/per hour "internology") lucky enough to work with him will leave his team and get 6 figures. OK, so, we have this 2 minute window to talk with him about what we do while he boots up Powerpoint on his 17" Macbook Pro. His first question was: "Hmmm, interesting, what is that coded in?" he's a super geek and didn't care about content--he wanted to know the technology behind it. I said "Revolution" He said "Hmm never heard of Revolution. Oops gotta go... I'm up next" I don't think I should to have said "coded in transcipt" at that moment. Sivakatirswami -- stephen barncard s a n f r a n c i s c o - - - - - - - - - - - - ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Is there a more English-like Programming language than Transcript?
We just came back from a two-day NewsTrain conference for journalists, put on by Associated Press and the Knight foundation. We showed our Hinduism Today Digital Edition to a few people, one of whom is the "critically acclaimed, award winning web developer" Rob Curley (see robcurley.com) who has helped produce the "best news sites on the net" web sites. (right, you may never have heard of him... this is in journalism--check out his latest production www.naplesnews.com... it's incredible, even if the content is "pop-local" click things under the dot.cool section) This man hired away some of Google's top engineers to join his IT team... he pays each one of back end IT team way up in the 6 figures, and any intern (he's big on $8/per hour "internology") lucky enough to work with him will leave his team and get 6 figures. OK, so, we have this 2 minute window to talk with him about what we do while he boots up Powerpoint on his 17" Macbook Pro. His first question was: "Hmmm, interesting, what is that coded in?" he's a super geek and didn't care about content--he wanted to know the technology behind it. I said "Revolution" He said "Hmm never heard of Revolution. Oops gotta go... I'm up next" I don't think I should to have said "coded in transcipt" at that moment. Sivakatirswami Dar Scott wrote: On Aug 10, 2006, at 5:39 PM, Dan Shafer wrote: As a language junkie I'd say xTalks including Transcript are easily and by far the most English-like programming languages on the planet. I was fortunate to be part of the team for Savvy which predated HyperTalk and shared many of the same commands. That was also before GUI and mouse, at least before we understood them. Almost every HyperTalk command that was not GUI related was in Savvy. Savvy used a form based script editor built around English syntax, and being of poor memory, I miss that. I need a hint once in a while. Blanks unfolded as parameters were needed. But, I don't think we can say Savvy is on the planet anymore. Even so, my mother-in-law still uses the bookkeeping package I made long ago and some folks are using emulators to still run Savvy. I think the current owners have lost the source. And, to answer your opening question, Runtime Revolution is trying hard to get us to call the language Revolution. I'm resisting and I suspect lots of other folks are as well. I consider that a silly and ill-advised terminology change. But in their official literature, it's now Revolution which you program in...er...Revolution. I can understand both sides of this. When I used LabView people looked at me funny when I said I programmed in G, so I simply said I programmed in LabView. I wonder if in the olden days people would say they programmed in HyperCard to avoid confusion. I have had trouble explaining Transcript to customers, so now say Revolution. Dar Scott ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Is there a more English-like Programming language than Transcript?
Isn't everyone missing the real point? Computers only "understand" one language: The instruction set for the processor family it belongs to. But no human (at least no normal human) could program in that language and produce anything like useful to the masses in any kind of reasonable time frame. So, (and I want to stress this point as dramatically as I can) ALL other language constructs INCLUDING assembly are written so that humans (at least normal humans) can write programs that are anything like useful to the masses in any kind of reasonable time frame; In effect to shield us from the tyranny of the instruction set. It stands to reason then that the more like a human thinks you can make that language, the more likely it is that a human can, and even would attempt to, write programs that are anything like useful to the masses in any kind of reasonable time frame. But invariably you give up something with high level languages like these, because you are beholden to the one who wrote the language for the kinds of things you can tell the computer to do. This is the crux of the matter. If we all programmed in assembly, it is unlikely any of us would ever produce anything, but if we did we could produce almost anything possible that a computer could do. But since we can't and won't learn assembly, we depend on the relative simplicity of the high level language, at the cost of only being able to do what the developer of the high level language gives us the capability to do. The more "English like" (or should I be global and say "human like") the high level language is, the more programmers will even attempt to write programs that are anything like useful to the masses in any kind of reasonable time frame. Can I see a show of hands of all the Revolution programmers that are also proficient enough in C++ to produce anything? Okay I see a few hands, how about assembly? Anyone? ... In answer then to the original question, is there a more English-like programming language than Transcript? I would say, probably not. And if there was, how much would you have to give up in terms of what it was capable of to use it? Transcript (imho) is an amazing balance of simplicity and capability unmatched in almost anything else I have seen. We all have things we would like to see done, or done better, but there will always be that. What we should be asking ourselves is how much can we do right now with what we have? It's those kind of developers that produce things like Galaxy and libDatabase, and even Revolution itself that make what everyone else does easier or better. And I will bet good money that if we (Revolution Developers) could double or triple the user base of Revolution in the next 2 or 3 years, we would see a lot more capabilities roll out of Runtime Revolution's labs. Maybe the way to do that is to start producing some really cool apps with it so others can see how productive we are with it. Bob Sneidar IT Manager Logos Management Calvary Chapel CM On Aug 12, 2006, at 10:00 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Re: OT: Is there a more English-like Programming language thanTranscript? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Is there a more English-like Programming language than Transcript?
On Aug 12, 2006, at 1:37 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote: To manipulated computers via a computer language requires an odd sort of non-human logic which must be learnt by any would-be programmer; and, while some languages attempt to obscure that, without that nothing really effective gets done. Perhaps that would-be human programmer is 90% along the path to that odd sort of logic because of human language. Formal languages often have features of a human language. Perhaps if natural languages were not recursive, only math wizards would use recursive languages. I don't think that "obscure" is the right word. Yeah, if we start to imagine the programming language as being English we will often do things that don't work. However, there are aspects of a human language that programming languages including xTalk have. (I hope I'm not considered heretical to say that even C has aspects of a human language.) We tend to take these for granted. English as a 2nd-person imperative syntax that works great for telling a computer what to do. The verb comes first. The meaning of a verb is augmented by other words. The slot of these words is by syntax such as object and indirect object. Nonlexical words are used to mark other players in augmenting the verb. This fits in well in programming and if you squint, you can see a C function call doing this. In some cases xTalk uses a form that uses a noun to tag the verb modifier. We see this in some of the new encryption commands. This is common in languages and is used somewhat in English. "We took the last leg with Greg as driver." This is used some in lisp dialects. (It might be cool to add this to custom commands.) It seems xTalk has a more rigid syntax than expected. I think this is because the assigned prepositions are not clear as to what role the augmenter is playing. So, in this way the natural and the computerish are the same. Another reminder: Consider the tail recursion of object references. Those can be complex, but most humans have no problems with the complexity. In most languages, this is natural and is processed quickly. I do have problems with some word choices. I can never remember "combine" or which way it goes. The adding of "and" to syntax markers makes it a grouping "and" and not a logical "and" that it is everywhere else. These little things add choices. I think it is OK to augment xTalk with 8th grade math, or what should be in 8th grade math. Dar ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: OT: Is there a more English-like Programming language than Transcript?
Wasn't it OpenScript?? My memory may be bad... Judy On Thu, 10 Aug 2006, Richard Gaskin wrote: > After Director's Lingo, Flash's ActionScript, ToolBook's OpenTalk, ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Is there a more English-like Programming language than Transcript?
=SMACK= (perhaps the two of you could get a room) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Is there a more English-like Programming language than Transcript?
Dar Scott wrote: On Aug 10, 2006, at 6:31 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Sometimes the entire world isn't wrong. I didn't intend to say the entire world is wrong. I guess I must come across a little arrogant. I don't think I'm arrogant. Maybe just a little vain. Or obtuse. Maybe some day I'll be hammered into charmingly witty. You always come off as charmingly witty to me. I apologize for my clumsy writing. I wasn't referring to you; changing the well-established name of the language wasn't your idea. -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Is there a more English-like Programming language than Transcript?
On Aug 10, 2006, at 6:31 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Sometimes the entire world isn't wrong. I didn't intend to say the entire world is wrong. I guess I must come across a little arrogant. I don't think I'm arrogant. Maybe just a little vain. Or obtuse. Maybe some day I'll be hammered into charmingly witty. In hammering, Dar Scott ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: OT: Is there a more English-like Programming language than Transcript?
Dar Scott wrote: I have had trouble explaining Transcript to customers, so now say Revolution. I've never had that trouble. I say I develop software with Revolution, and when I'm talking about the language specifically I say Transcript. After Director's Lingo, Flash's ActionScript, ToolBook's OpenTalk, Netscape's JavaScript, and a few dozen other major scripting languages (prety much all scripting language vendors who aren't Microsoft or an MS knockoff), it doesn't seem so strange a thing. Sometimes the entire world isn't wrong. More productive to differentiate oneself in a more meaningful form -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Is there a more English-like Programming language than Transcript?
On Aug 10, 2006, at 5:39 PM, Dan Shafer wrote: As a language junkie I'd say xTalks including Transcript are easily and by far the most English-like programming languages on the planet. I was fortunate to be part of the team for Savvy which predated HyperTalk and shared many of the same commands. That was also before GUI and mouse, at least before we understood them. Almost every HyperTalk command that was not GUI related was in Savvy. Savvy used a form based script editor built around English syntax, and being of poor memory, I miss that. I need a hint once in a while. Blanks unfolded as parameters were needed. But, I don't think we can say Savvy is on the planet anymore. Even so, my mother-in-law still uses the bookkeeping package I made long ago and some folks are using emulators to still run Savvy. I think the current owners have lost the source. And, to answer your opening question, Runtime Revolution is trying hard to get us to call the language Revolution. I'm resisting and I suspect lots of other folks are as well. I consider that a silly and ill-advised terminology change. But in their official literature, it's now Revolution which you program in...er...Revolution. I can understand both sides of this. When I used LabView people looked at me funny when I said I programmed in G, so I simply said I programmed in LabView. I wonder if in the olden days people would say they programmed in HyperCard to avoid confusion. I have had trouble explaining Transcript to customers, so now say Revolution. Dar Scott ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Is there a more English-like Programming language than Transcript?
Dan Shafer wrote: And, to answer your opening question, Runtime Revolution is trying hard to get us to call the language Revolution. I'm resisting and I suspect lots of other folks are as well. I consider that a silly and ill-advised terminology change. But in their official literature, it's now Revolution which you program in...er...Revolution. I'm not sure even that's the case: because the change is to a word already used to mean something else, every instance of "Transcript" throughout the documentation must be read carefully to make sure it's clear. I doubt that expensive undertaking has been completed. In the meantime, Wikipedia, Open Directory, and hundreds of web pages still use "Transcript" so at most the words are interchangeable, at least until the proposed name change retreats in favor of things that actually need to get done. -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Is there a more English-like Programming language than Transcript?
I completely agree with you, Dan. In my daily work, it is just not practical to call both the software and the language Revolution. I just continue to call it Transcript. Best, Mark -- Economy-x-Talk Consultancy and Software Engineering http://economy-x-talk.com http://www.salery.biz Download ErrorLib at http://economy-x-talk.com/developers.html and get full control of error handling in Revolution. Op 11-aug-2006, om 1:39 heeft Dan Shafer het volgende geschreven: And, to answer your opening question, Runtime Revolution is trying hard to get us to call the language Revolution. I'm resisting and I suspect lots of other folks are as well. I consider that a silly and ill-advised terminology change. But in their official literature, it's now Revolution which you program in...er...Revolution. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Is there a more English-like Programming language than Transcript?
Hi David, Yes, I think that the xTalk-family provides us with the most English- like programming languages. Anything more sophisticated is doable, but also a lot of work. As an example, here is a script which responds to polite requests to create an object. Don't take this example too seriously, please. on mouseUp doPhrase "Would you be so kind to create a field?" put the result into rslt if rslt is not empty then beep answer rslt end if end mouseUp on doPhrase theRequest put "(^[Pp]lease*|^[Cc]ould you please*|^[Ww]ould you" && ¬ "be so kind to*)" into myPattern if matchText(theRequest,myPattern,myFormality) is false then return "Sorry, didn't hear ya!" else if last char of theRequest is among the chars of "?!" then delete last char of theRequest put word (number of words of myFormality + 1) to -1 of ¬ theRequest into theRequest switch (word 1 of theRequest) case "create" repeat for each word myWord in theRequest) if myWord is not "a" then put myWord & space after ¬ myNewRequest end repeat put myNewRequest try do myNewRequest catch myError return "Sorry, I could not" && theRequest end try break -- more "cases" default return "Sorry, I could not" && theRequest end switch end if end doPhrase Best regards, Mark -- Economy-x-Talk Consultancy and Software Engineering http://economy-x-talk.com http://www.salery.biz Download ErrorLib at http://economy-x-talk.com/developers.html and get full control of error handling in Revolution. Op 11-aug-2006, om 0:13 heeft David Bovill het volgende geschreven: By the way is Transcript still the official term for Revs programming language? Spent an hour looking for links references and articles on English- like programming languages - looking at the syntax. Found no good links yet. Lots of stuff about COBOL, things about how it was the flavour of the month in the 80's - how good perl is. Here is a nice quote from http://www.whynot.net/ideas/1441: By this, I mean the source file would be something like a text file.. and the interpreter would interpret the english language commands and build a program based on it. The commands for the English Programming Language could be something like this (consider this a raw source file): First, create a window approximately 75% of the screen size. Then, add two menus to the top, one File and one Help. Under the File menu, add Exit. When a user clicks on Exit, the program should exit. Under the help menu, add a simple About option that describes this program. Now create two buttons in the main window (the first one). The first button should say "Message", and the second one should say "Exit" (without the quotes). When a user clicks on Message, a message box should pop up saying "Hello, World!". When the user clicks on the Exit button, the program should exit. Now that would be more English-like than Transcript, but to date i cannot find anything much more English-like than the syntax of Transcript. There is some AI stuff like - http://www.softwaretheories.com/Examples/index.html(not a good link) - and Ruslan you there - some older links I had for parsers that took XML - there is an MIT project to create a meta language... but no good links I can find - and certainly nothing solid and useable. So the question is this - is Transcipt the best real programming language out there in terms of it's English-likeness! That is the ease in which a non-programmer, or non-speaker of the computer language can understand it? Help, links, rants and gossip appreciated! ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Is there a more English-like Programming language than Transcript?
As a language junkie I'd say xTalks including Transcript are easily and by far the most English-like programming languages on the planet. Like all languages, it has some constructs that don't come out very English-like but I don't know of any other language that comes close. And, to answer your opening question, Runtime Revolution is trying hard to get us to call the language Revolution. I'm resisting and I suspect lots of other folks are as well. I consider that a silly and ill-advised terminology change. But in their official literature, it's now Revolution which you program in...er...Revolution. On 8/10/06, David Bovill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: By the way is Transcript still the official term for Revs programming language? Spent an hour looking for links references and articles on English-like programming languages - looking at the syntax. Found no good links yet. Lots of stuff about COBOL, things about how it was the flavour of the month in the 80's - how good perl is. Here is a nice quote from http://www.whynot.net/ideas/1441: By this, I mean the source file would be something like a text file.. and the interpreter would interpret the english language commands and build a program based on it. The commands for the English Programming Language could be something like this (consider this a raw source file): > > First, create a window approximately 75% of the screen size. Then, add > two menus to the top, one File and one Help. Under the File menu, add Exit. > When a user clicks on Exit, the program should exit. Under the help menu, > add a simple About option that describes this program. > > Now create two buttons in the main window (the first one). The first > button should say "Message", and the second one should say "Exit" (without > the quotes). When a user clicks on Message, a message box should pop up > saying "Hello, World!". When the user clicks on the Exit button, the program > should exit. > > > Now that would be more English-like than Transcript, but to date i cannot find anything much more English-like than the syntax of Transcript. There is some AI stuff like - http://www.softwaretheories.com/Examples/index.html(not a good link) - and Ruslan you there - some older links I had for parsers that took XML - there is an MIT project to create a meta language... but no good links I can find - and certainly nothing solid and useable. So the question is this - is Transcipt the best real programming language out there in terms of it's English-likeness! That is the ease in which a non-programmer, or non-speaker of the computer language can understand it? Help, links, rants and gossip appreciated! ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- ~~ Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
